[HN Gopher] Desktop Publishing Tools That Didn't Make It (2022)
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       Desktop Publishing Tools That Didn't Make It (2022)
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2025-07-09 18:04 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tedium.co)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tedium.co)
        
       | taeric wrote:
       | Reminds me of printing cards at home. Reading, I almost skipped
       | over where this referenced Print Shop, as I didn't recognize the
       | name. Their article for that, https://tedium.co/2016/06/02/the-
       | print-shop-banner-decade/, is ridiculously nostalgic. I think I
       | can hear that main banner printing.
        
         | rbanffy wrote:
         | I remember Publish It for the Apple //e. It was unbelievably
         | good for a 1 MHz CPU. And the print quality on a dot matrix was
         | also impressively good (even though it didn't use the maximum
         | possible 244 dpi my printer had)
         | 
         | We have to cut some slack for the titles from platforms that
         | died - it wasn't completely their fault at least.
        
           | taeric wrote:
           | I confess complete bewilderment that Print Shop is still
           | around! It is called out for not being on the main list
           | because it is still selling. Holy crap!
        
         | com2kid wrote:
         | I grew up during the 90s, which was the height of home made
         | greeting cards. Magazines ran huge spreads comparing different
         | programs for how well they could make banners and cards, how
         | good their clip art collection was, and how easy they were to
         | use.
         | 
         | I remember as a kid that making personalized greeting cards was
         | just what you did. I had a computer, I had a color printer,
         | every holiday was getting a unique card! Family events had
         | giant banners that I spend hours taping together. One year I
         | did a space themed banner (I use a "space image" generation
         | program that did stars and nebulas and such) and then realized
         | my mistake when it took forever to print out 15+ sheets of
         | paper with a solid black background (oops).
         | 
         | Nowadays I don't even own a color printer (black and white
         | laser), and I haven't tried making custom cards in forever.
         | 
         | IMHO it is just one more example of how PCs have become content
         | consumption devices rather than outlets for creation.
        
           | tpmoney wrote:
           | > IMHO it is just one more example of how PCs have become
           | content consumption devices rather than outlets for creation.
           | 
           | I would argue it's more of an example of a part of an
           | industry dying because the reality never lived up to the
           | expectations and the individual costs being prohibitive to
           | getting there. As the artwork computers were cable of got
           | better, we weren't as happy with the quality of image you get
           | from standard printer paper and an inkjet. The difference
           | between photo paper and regular paper in the same printer is
           | night and day, but most people never saw that and most people
           | didn't want to spend the money that photo paper cost for
           | printing out a single birthday card. Especially when it's was
           | a 50/50 crapshoot whether your print heads were clogged or
           | would clog half way through and ruin the first print. Add
           | into that the cost of all the ink that was wasted to clean
           | the print heads and the chance that you would just plain be
           | out of a color and unable to print anyway and I think most
           | people just decided the aggravation wasn't worth the novelty
           | of Clip Art Dog #23 telling you happy birthday.
           | 
           | And then once the internet really took off, who wanted to
           | give a clip art card printed on printer paper when you could
           | send someone a "jibjab" custom e-card with funny animations
           | of your faces?
        
             | com2kid wrote:
             | My old HP 500c was incredibly reliable and it didn't have
             | any of the print head cleaning shenanigans that are needed
             | now days.
             | 
             | It was however dog slow.
             | 
             | I am not sure why modern inkjets need print head cleaning
             | whereas old ones did not.
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | A few which weren't listed:
       | 
       | - Calamus --- a German tool based on a document model, it was
       | pretty interesting
       | 
       | - Ready-Set-Go --- this was a contender, with a quite vocal
       | fanbase
       | 
       | - Microsoft Publisher --- this was just announced as development
       | ceasing
       | 
       | and the cool British program which did ink mixing and took paper
       | characteristics into account whose name I can't recall.... (and
       | was hoping would be listed)
       | 
       | Kind of silly to list PageMaker, since its successor, K2 became
       | InDesign (which was so promising, Adobe bought Aldus), and Serif
       | Page Plus, since Serif now publishes their Publisher application
       | (fortuitous name choice for them).
        
         | pavel_lishin wrote:
         | Publisher was incredible. I remember using it to make websites
         | - giant imagemaps! - as well as a mock newspaper for our high
         | school that we managed to get in trouble for.
        
         | jamesbooker83 wrote:
         | You mention a British program. I do not know about the specific
         | features you mention, but a British company called Serif used
         | to make very highly-regarded DTP software.
         | 
         | I think they were bought by Corel
         | 
         | Edit: Serif are in the article, sorry
        
           | masfuerte wrote:
           | Was it Xara?
           | 
           | Corel licensed their software for a while and released it as
           | CorelXARA.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xara
        
             | WillAdams wrote:
             | No, not Xara --- I finally managed to remember:
             | 
             | Cerilica (company name) Truism (product name).
        
           | tinier_subsets wrote:
           | > I think they were bought by Corel
           | 
           | Serif (makers of Affinity suite) were bought by Canva last
           | year. So far, they've honored their perpetual licenses and
           | still offer them, but it seems like a perilous proposition
           | given Canva's audience and sales model.
        
         | speterNJdev wrote:
         | And don't forget Stone Create
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | If we mentioned Stone Design Create, then we have to add
           | Pages.app by Pages.
        
       | insane_dreamer wrote:
       | PageMaker was awesome -- and ultimately transformed into InDesign
       | which is excellent.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Was it transformed, or replaced by? They were both available
         | for some time
        
       | asplake wrote:
       | Well I learned that FrameMaker still lives! Takes me back to a
       | past life. Who uses it now?
        
         | Finnucane wrote:
         | Not me, sadly. I used it a lot back in ye olde dayes, but when
         | Adobe killed the Mac version I had to give it up. I have not
         | forgiven them for this. And now it is subscription only, and
         | separate from CS. I make sad face now.
        
           | MarkusWandel wrote:
           | Same here! We used it - on Solaris! - for document
           | preparation at work. I have to admit that preparing and
           | pasting graphics into Word with Visio is better than the FM
           | graphics editor, but OMG, I wish I had that table tool back
           | compared to the abomination in MS Word.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > I make sad face now.
           | 
           | If only you had said sad Mac
        
       | cormullion wrote:
       | Interleaf rose and fell spectacularly. Writing the entire user
       | interface code in Common Lisp was an interesting feature.
        
       | lysace wrote:
       | PFS:First Publisher was my fav for a while in the 80s on a clone
       | 8086 PC with CGA (running in mono 640x200). Very impressive
       | performance for the time.
       | 
       | It supported loading MacPaint bitmaps (.mac on the PC) and with
       | the "cheap" PC compatibles it made for a poor man's Mac-workalike
       | DTP tool.
       | 
       | Here's an 1988 article on the T/Maker company that built it,
       | founded by Heidi Roizen and her brother Peter Roizen:
       | 
       | https://computeradsfromthepast.substack.com/p/tmaker-tiny-so...
        
       | turnsout wrote:
       | TIL that Serif (publisher of the Affinity suite, now owned by
       | Canva) has been around since the 90s!
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | This missed one of the most badly named applications ever made:
       | "Publish It!" It wasn't bad for an Apple II program, but say the
       | name out loud to see why it's not a surprise that it is lost to
       | history.
        
       | jamesgill wrote:
       | PageMaker was _enormously_ popular in the 80s /90s. It was
       | everywhere. I remember writing two different sets of computer
       | manuals with it.
       | 
       | I also used GeoPublish, because Commodore! It was fantastic on
       | the C64.
        
         | adolph wrote:
         | GeoPublish was part of GEOS which is an also-ran OS from early
         | days of graphical computing. I personally used it for home
         | compute as a kid; coming from a Kaypro it was pretty wild.
         | 
         |  _Former CEO of GeoWorks claims that GEOS faded away "because
         | Microsoft threatened to withdraw supply of MS-DOS to hardware
         | manufacturers who bundled Geoworks with their machines"._
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEOS_(16-bit_operating_system)
        
       | wduquette wrote:
       | The "Sirius microcomputer" pictured as "The Book Machine" is in
       | fact a Victor 9000, as you can see in the picture. The same unit
       | was branded as "Sirius" in Europe and as "Victor 9000" in the
       | U.S.
       | 
       | I spent quite a lot of time with the Victor 9000 in 1983-1985, as
       | my college bought a bunch of them, and I was the student computer
       | lab guy who supported them. It was a fascinating machine with
       | some really cool specs: built-in 800x600 pixel monochrome
       | graphics, redefinable keyboard and character set layouts, built-
       | in serial and parallel ports, high-density floppy drives, and an
       | 8086 processor. It ran CP/M-86 and MS-DOS. Its closest competitor
       | was the original IBM PC, which at that time had low-density
       | floppies, no graphics, no built-in ports, etc.
       | 
       | The downfall of the Victor 9000 was that it pre-dated the rise of
       | the "PC-clone": third-party PCs that could run exactly the same
       | shrink-wrapped software as the IBM PC did. In the CP/M-80 8-bit
       | world, every manufacturer had its own disk formats, screen sizes,
       | and so on, and you had to buy shrink-wrapped software for your
       | own specific hardware, and the Victor-9000 folks assumed that the
       | 16-bit world would work the same way. As a result, they produced
       | a much better machine than the IBM PC...that wasn't fully
       | compatible.
        
         | vidarh wrote:
         | Victor was also co-founded by former MOS Technologies people,
         | including Chuck Peddle, one of the key people behind the 6502
         | CPU, and Commodore's earliest computers.
        
       | pstuart wrote:
       | This takes me back. It's missing Quark XPress.
       | 
       | Around that time I was dating a typesetter who did DTP as well,
       | and I got into the game and did gigs using Quark, Ventura
       | Publisher, and Pagemaker. Good times!
       | 
       | Amusingly enough, Word 4.0 on the Mac had enough layout
       | capabilities to do a lot of basic publishing needs.
       | 
       | All these many years later I can ace those online kerning
       | tests....
        
         | meepmorp wrote:
         | Quark is still around.
        
       | ornel wrote:
       | My father set up a Ventura Publisher-based publishing shop in the
       | 80s and it was great. I got to use a laser printer for the first
       | time, retouch photos with Corel Paint and play around with GEM,
       | which I remember had an extremely smooth mouse pointer. All in
       | glorious high resolution (720x348) gray scale.
        
       | kstrauser wrote:
       | I had an Amiga in high school when my neighbor _ahem_ loaned me
       | his PageSetter disks. It was hard to use in places, and it surely
       | crashed a lot, but I got great grades on the homework I created
       | in it, which often looked nicer than what the school newspaper
       | was able to pull off.
       | 
       | DTP probably doesn't seem like that big of a deal to anyone today
       | outside of a publishing house. It was freaking amazing at the
       | time. Me, some dumb kid with an off the shelf computer, could
       | make reasonably professional (if not exactly elegant) documents
       | just like the news and print people? It seemed unthinkable.
        
       | leakycap wrote:
       | I rarely see mention of UniQorn, a DTP app based on Apple's
       | short-lived QuickDraw GX graphics engine.
       | 
       | Some portions of UniQorn lived on in Softpress Freeway web design
       | app that was on shelves in boxes in Apple stores for many years.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeway_(software)
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | "5. The Newsroom. Platform: Apple II, IBM PC"
       | 
       |  _shows a distinctly c64-looking splash screen_
       | 
       | Wikipedia says it was for Apple ][, MS-DOS, C64, and Atari
       | 8-bits. The first two came out in 1984, the c64 and Atari ports
       | followed in 1985/7.
       | 
       | anyway, now I'm having flashbacks to meticulously pushing pixels
       | in The Print Shop to make an image of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs to use in
       | greeting cards and tractor-feed banners.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-09 23:00 UTC)