[HN Gopher] Using MPC for Anonymous and Private DNA Analysis
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       Using MPC for Anonymous and Private DNA Analysis
        
       Author : vishakh82
       Score  : 34 points
       Date   : 2025-07-09 11:52 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (vishakh.blog)
 (TXT) w3m dump (vishakh.blog)
        
       | odyssey7 wrote:
       | What makes Monadic DNA monadic?
        
         | vishakh82 wrote:
         | Think monad as in philosophy, less monad as in a programming
         | burrito.
         | 
         | Our intention is to let each user be a self-contained, enclosed
         | (through encryption) unit where they get insights tailored to
         | their unique genome. At the same time, we want to aggregate
         | data (securely and with consent) from all users to power
         | medical and research findings.
         | 
         | It sort of also works in the programming monad sense as the
         | data is always enclosed and encrypted and never "directly"
         | operated on.
        
       | goopypoop wrote:
       | "Anonymized" [?] anonymous
       | 
       | What is the contract with "some legalese" for?
       | 
       | Couldn't it be as simple as "pay, spit, receive unique physical
       | token"? A disgusting vending machine, even
        
         | vishakh82 wrote:
         | You're right about "anonymized" and "anonymous". We do point
         | out avenues to reach anonymity.
         | 
         | The legalese is for informed consent since biological materials
         | are involved, handling liability and pointing out that the
         | exercise itself was experimental and an early step towards
         | productionzation.
         | 
         | The physical token could be a UX nightmare and it could get
         | expensive at scale. Using a more developed app which accept
         | revocable public keys from the user might be more workable.
        
       | phoronixrly wrote:
       | So... It's just uploading your DNA to S3 but with extra steps
       | this time? Before selling it off with the rest of the company
       | assets later.
        
         | vishakh82 wrote:
         | Not at all. "S3" is only in the loop because that's what labs
         | generally use. In production, when we have ongoing scale, we
         | will not use S3 or anything like it to transfer data between
         | labs and our infra, even if it means using sneakernet!
         | 
         | The whole point of our project is to keep people's data always
         | under encryption so that nobody can sell the data even if they
         | wanted to. Using MPC (and FHE) we ensure that nobody can
         | decrypt your data without your permission.
         | 
         | You can also delete your data any time without needing any
         | third party's permission using the latest versions of the
         | libraries we use.
         | 
         | We are building all this go get away from the closed,
         | exploitative model that 23andMe built. The way we are building
         | our infra, our company could go out of business tomorrow and
         | you'll still be able to use the protocol and have access to
         | your data and insights.
         | 
         | Also, fun fact, genetic data from newborns is retained by the
         | state in many industrialized countries. We need to get that
         | data away from "trust me, bro" infrastructure to securing it
         | using MPC and FHE.
        
           | mbeavitt wrote:
           | Ok but the lab has access to the unencrypted data? You
           | haven't removed the requirement that the user needs to trust
           | the lab with their raw genome markers. This entire operation
           | hinges on the lab's trustworthiness, does it not?
        
             | Real_S wrote:
             | Excellent point.
             | 
             | We are developing a solution that will allow cryptography
             | for DNA molecules, allowing DNA to be secure in any lab. It
             | fits well with Monadic's front end.
             | 
             | https://www.geneinfosec.com/
        
             | vishakh82 wrote:
             | We address this point in the article. On the default path
             | with existing rules and regulations some degree of trust in
             | labs will always be required.
             | 
             | At-home sequencing could be a game changer.
             | 
             | The other reply also mentions molecular cryptography which
             | could provide really strong anonymity and privacy
             | guarantees. We hope to do a PoC accordingly some time in
             | the neat future.
        
       | wackget wrote:
       | Wow, Media Player Classic has come a long way. I knew it could
       | play most types of videos but this is next-level compatibility.
        
         | smilevideo wrote:
         | For those who just read the comments, this is a joke. The MPC
         | in the article refers to "multi-party compute".
        
           | khqc wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure it's model predictive control
        
       | krunck wrote:
       | It's great to see privacy-focused service using FHE.
       | 
       | I'd love to see the results of an external audit of the systems
       | that touch personal DNA information.
        
         | vishakh82 wrote:
         | Unfortunately, credible external audits are really expensive.
         | 
         | Our project is bootstrapped so we won't be able to afford a
         | 100k audit for a while.
        
         | Real_S wrote:
         | We did an external audit of these systems and published on it a
         | few years ago:
         | 
         | https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/bioengineering-and-biot...
         | 
         | A publication from this year highlights the ongoing challenges:
         | 
         | https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/10930454/
        
           | vishakh82 wrote:
           | Your links seem to relate to regular plaintext sequencing,
           | storage and analysis.
           | 
           | We are building under full encryption.
        
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