[HN Gopher] GlobalFoundries to Acquire MIPS
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       GlobalFoundries to Acquire MIPS
        
       Author : mshockwave
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2025-07-08 16:57 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mips.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mips.com)
        
       | alephnerd wrote:
       | Interesting but complementary foray into owning the end-to-end
       | pipeline of chip design, fabrication, and packaging - especially
       | for embedded use cases.
       | 
       | MIPS has also hitched it's horse to RISC-V now, and I am seeing a
       | critical mass of talent and capital forming in that space.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | The critical mass of talent and capital forming in the RISC-V
         | space happened in 02019 at Alibaba: https://www.cnx-
         | software.com/2019/07/27/alibaba-unveils-xuan...
         | 
         | AFAIK MIPS still hasn't shipped a high-end processor
         | competitive with the XuanTie 910 that article is about. And I
         | think the billions of RISC-V microcontroller cores that have
         | shipped already (10 billion as of 02022 according to
         | https://wccftech.com/x86-arm-rival-risc-v-architecture-
         | ships...) are also mostly not from MIPS.
        
           | garblegarble wrote:
           | off-topic but: I've noticed you prefix years with a zero in
           | your HN comments. First I thought it was just a typo, but I
           | see you've made several comments like that. Is there some
           | significance, or are you just raising awareness of the year
           | 9999 problem?
        
             | rrakow wrote:
             | I think that's some "Long Now Foundation" meme.
        
               | dcminter wrote:
               | That. Personally I think it's performative nonsense, but
               | you have to admire the commitment to it.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | I suspect it's counterproductive, though, like
               | deliberately not using pronouns and always referring to
               | someone by name. The intent might be to draw attention to
               | the author's cause, but it's more likely to come across
               | that the author just writes weirdly.
        
               | dcminter wrote:
               | Eh, I also think it's harmless, and lends a certain
               | "brand" to their posts - which are usually quite good
               | otherwise. Better to be weird than dull, right?
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | I guess, unless the offputting:goodness ratio gets
               | lopsided and makes people start ignoring them.
               | 
               | Frankly, something about that leading 0 makes me grit my
               | teeth and stop reading. I can't explain why it affects me
               | like that. Perhaps I'm the only one who does, although
               | threads like this seem to pop up whenever they post so I
               | don't think so. If HN had a mute button, I'd probably use
               | it just because it annoys me to that level.
               | 
               | Edit: And now that we're talking about it, they seem to
               | have the need to mention a specific year way more than
               | most, as though deliberately looking for opportunities to
               | draw attention to themselves. Oof. That just made it
               | about 10x more grating to me.
        
               | dcminter wrote:
               | I do get where you're coming from; for me I think it
               | interrupts the way I scan text - a date would be
               | unconsciously absorbed but these stand out as abnormal
               | artefacts requiring full attention.
        
               | kstrauser wrote:
               | Yeah, that's a great way of explaining it. Every time, it
               | raises an exception in my mental parser and I have to go
               | back and consciously evaluate it. Then I see that it's
               | the same person who got me yet again, and I grit my
               | teeth.
        
               | tonyedgecombe wrote:
               | You aren't the only one, it interrupts the flow when I'm
               | reading.
        
               | MalbertKerman wrote:
               | > but you have to admire the commitment to it.
               | 
               | I really don't.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | It doesn't require any special commitment because it
               | doesn't cost me anything. Certain people do post a lot of
               | really boring comments about it, but I'm not the one
               | posting those comments, and I don't care about those
               | people's opinions, so I don't care.
        
               | avhception wrote:
               | Every time I encounter it, I think to myself: ah, that
               | guy again. Always brings a little smile to my face. Keep
               | it up!
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | It's the Long Now Foundation's convention - a bit cultish
             | but harmless.
             | 
             | https://longnow.org/ideas/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-
             | an...
        
           | nine_k wrote:
           | (BTW why do you write years with a leafing zero? Do you
           | expect these post to still matter past year 9999?)
        
             | dcminter wrote:
             | ...and if he does, why does he then consider the year 99999
             | to be out of reach? As I understand it the idea is to
             | promote "long term thinking" but I really don't see how
             | this affectation is actually supposed to achieve anything
             | beyond mildly irritating/confusing the reader.
             | 
             | At least the Long Now Foundation stuff comes with that
             | context built-in.
             | 
             | https://longnow.org/
        
               | ndiddy wrote:
               | Good point, I will start the Longer Now foundation and
               | start adding two zeroes to the front of all my years.
        
           | hulitu wrote:
           | > AFAIK MIPS still hasn't shipped a high-end processor
           | competitive with the XuanTie 910 that article is about
           | 
           | The last high end MIPS was in the SGI times, 30 years ago.
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Yes, but their claims over the last few years have been
             | that their RISC-V implementations will be super fast, not
             | like all those pikers, because they're using MIPS
             | microarchitectural techniques. And so far I haven't seen
             | them ship anything that substantiates that.
        
           | Findecanor wrote:
           | It was some time ago that MIPS did announce that they had
           | competitive RISC-V cores and had signed customers for them:
           | LG and in the automotive sector. I'd think those _should_ be
           | taped out by now, but who knows...
           | 
           | I think the C910 looks better on paper than it performs in
           | practice. I hope that isn't the case for MIPS.
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Do you have any details?
        
               | Findecanor wrote:
               | I can only refer to MIPS' own press releases,
               | unfortunately. They mention 4-wide OoO, RV64GH + Zbb +
               | Zba. no V.
               | 
               | That is a frustrating pattern in the RISC-V world. Many
               | companies that _boast_ having _x_ wide cores with _y_
               | SPECint numbers but nothing that has been independently
               | verified.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | No V sounds like a bad sign for performance. Do they have
               | any part numbers?
        
         | ajb wrote:
         | It's an interesting comparison because MIPS used to occupy the
         | niche that RV does now - an ISA that anyone could implement.
         | 
         | Lots of companies had their own mips implementation, but still
         | might use an implementation from mips-the-company because even
         | if you have your own team, you probably don't want to implement
         | every core size that you might need. But then for some reason
         | lots of them switched to using ARM, within a few years (in some
         | cases getting an architecture licence and keeping their CPU
         | team).
         | 
         | It seems like RV has a more stable structure, as the foundation
         | doesn't licence cores, so even if one or two of the
         | implementors die it won't necessarily reflect on the viability
         | of the ecosystem
        
       | somanyphotons wrote:
       | Suddenly another company that has (old?) fabs and a cpu design
       | team in-house
       | 
       | This could be interesting to see how much they try to loss-lead
       | to get market share in the low-end
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | GF's fabs aren't that old. They were neck-and-neck with TSMC
         | until 02018, when they could do 12nm:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20190107061855/https://www.v3.co...
        
           | kasabali wrote:
           | Imagine canning your 7nm process last minute only few years
           | before the chip shortage.
           | 
           | Must be the _most_ _moronic_ _decision_ _ever_.
           | 
           | and it's not like 20/20 hindsight either, because every
           | hardware enthusiast knew at the time Intel was having
           | troubles and was worried TSMC (and Samsung at the time) were
           | going to be the only fabs producing leading edge
           | lithographies.
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | I think it would require some work to call it a "moronic
             | decision." My suspicion is that even if they could see the
             | future and predict that shortage, 7nm by 2020/2021 was not
             | on the table for them.
             | 
             | These nm values are really bullshit anyway, but the tech
             | node that was supposed to be Intel's 7nm, which ended up
             | being called "Intel 4" (because they branded some 10nm tech
             | as Intel 7), only came out in like 2023. Given they Global
             | Foundries was always behind Intel, suddenly leapfrogging
             | them by 2-3 years would be quite a feat.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | Oh no, it _is_ a moronic decision and everyone thought so
               | even then. It was a competitive process, they said volume
               | production was due in late 2018 and they canned it at the
               | very last minute citing it financially not feasible. You
               | can read details at this news article
               | (https://www.anandtech.com/show/13277/globalfoundries-
               | stops-a...) or thousands of forum discussions regarding
               | the news. No need to even look that far, just skimp the
               | discussions on the forum topic below the news article I
               | linked and it was plain as a day to anyone what would
               | happen.
               | 
               | > These nm values are really bullshit anyway, but the
               | tech node that was supposed to be Intel's 7nm, which
               | ended up being called "Intel 4" (because they branded
               | some 10nm tech as Intel 7), only came out in like 2023.
               | Given they Global Foundries was always behind Intel,
               | suddenly leapfrogging them by 2-3 years would be quite a
               | feat.
               | 
               | This is a very weak argument. Intel was ahead of
               | everyone, now everyone is ahead of Intel. Remember TSMC's
               | blunder processes like 20nm? How they turned around after
               | that? Or how GloFo has had always mediocre processes but
               | they finally hit the nail in the head with their 14/12nm?
               | Fab business has always had companies leapfrogging each
               | other, it turns out the worst sin is not trying. GloFo's
               | greedy investors chose to bury the business in the ground
               | for their short term profits.
        
               | StillBored wrote:
               | Its odd all these MBAs and few in the tech space appear
               | to know that when a technology company stops investing in
               | the future they are done. It might take 20+ years for
               | that to happen but it will. Sure, stretch the timeline
               | for the next node/product/etc but _NEVER_ stop pushing
               | the enveloper because if you can't invest in it now, you
               | won't be able to in a few years time when your resources
               | are even more constrained as your customer base dwindles,
               | or your technology becomes more commoditized or simply
               | left behind as companies that did invest no longer have a
               | need for their older products/lines.
        
               | prewett wrote:
               | Might not be the investors, might be squarely
               | management's fault. A lot of investors are pretty
               | passive.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | What I remember from discussions at the time was they
               | were going to tape out very soon and start building for
               | mass production, then UAE fund noped when things got
               | serious.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | I thought it was a bad decision at the time, but it does
               | seem like a defensible one to me, for three reasons.
               | 
               | First, nobody knew if even TSMC was going to succeed at
               | bringing a 7nm process to market. 02018 was maybe the
               | height of the "Moore's Law is over" belief. There was a
               | lot of debate about whether planar semiconductor scaling
               | had finally reached the limit of practical feasibility,
               | although clearly it was still two orders of magnitude
               | from the single-atom physical limit, which had been
               | reached by Xie's lab in 02002. Like Intel, SMIC didn't
               | reach 7nm until 02023 (with the HiSilicon processor for
               | Huawei's Mate60 cellphone) despite having the full
               | backing of the world's most technically productive
               | country, and when they did, it was a shocking surprise in
               | international relations with the US.
               | 
               | Second, even if GF had brought 7nm to market, there was
               | no guarantee it would be profitable. The most profitable
               | companies in a market are not always the most technically
               | advanced; often the pioneers die with arrows in their
               | backs. If you can make 7nm chips in volume, but the price
               | for them is so high that almost everyone sticks with 12nm
               | processes (maybe from your competitors), you can still
               | lose money on the R&D. Moore's Law as originally stated
               | in "Cramming" was about how the minimum price per
               | transistor kept moving to smaller and smaller
               | transistors, and historically that has been an immensely
               | strong impetus to move to smaller processes, but it's
               | clearly weakened in recent years, with many successful
               | semiconductor products like high-end FPGAs still shipping
               | on very old process nodes. (Leaving aside analog, which
               | is a huge market that doesn't benefit from smaller
               | feature size.)
               | 
               | Third, we don't know what the situation inside GF was,
               | and maybe GF's CEO did. Maybe they'd just lost all their
               | most important talent to TSMC or Samsung, so their 7nm
               | project was doomed. Maybe their management politics were
               | internally dysfunctional in a way that blocked progress
               | on 7nm, even if it hadn't been canceled. There's no
               | guarantee that GF would have been successful at mass
               | production of 7nm chips even in a technical sense, no
               | matter how much money they spent on it.
               | 
               | In the end it seems like GF lost the bet pretty badly.
               | But that doesn't necessarily imply that it was the wrong
               | bet. Just, probably.
        
               | chasil wrote:
               | As far as I know, Global Foundries ceased efforts at 7nm
               | and lower because they could not afford it.
               | 
               | They had previously signed a contract with IBM to produce
               | silicon at these more advanced nodes that they could not
               | honor, and there was legal action between them.
               | 
               | https://www.anandtech.com/show/13277/globalfoundries-
               | stops-a...
               | 
               | https://newsroom.ibm.com/2025-01-02-GlobalFoundries-and-
               | IBM-...
        
               | hedgehog wrote:
               | First, you point out that Moore's law was about the
               | transistor count per chip at the optimum cost process,
               | and that's very important. We have transitioned from a
               | more-for-less leading edge to a more-for-more leading
               | edge. It's overall sensible for Apple to build giant
               | chips on the newest processor not because it's cheaper
               | but because it gives them an overall more competitive
               | product (they only sell whole devices). Just because
               | Apple and Nvidia keep making bigger chips doesn't mean
               | that Moore's law is working the way it was originally
               | proposed (Intel's marketing department notwithstanding).
               | 
               | In any case, at the time and still I think GF was
               | probably correct in that they would not be able to
               | compete at the leading edge and make money at it.
               | Remember, AMD and IBM separated fabs out for a reason and
               | not having the scale necessary to compete was probably a
               | big part of that. AMD has succeeded on TSMC and IBM seems
               | to be doing ok on Samsung. Most chips are not at the
               | leading edge and don't need to be, and so most fabs don't
               | need to be leading edge to serve customers. There are all
               | kinds of applications where a more mature and better
               | characterized process is better, whether for harsh
               | environments, mixed signal applications, or just low
               | volume parts where $20M of tooling cost is not worth it.
        
               | exmadscientist wrote:
               | > It was a competitive process
               | 
               | Do you have any evidence, besides GF's own PR/IR
               | department, that the process ever actually worked in
               | volume? Because from my point of view, how they ended
               | things looks _exactly_ how I would spin away a
               | multibillion-dollar investment into a failed process.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | No I don't, but then, how bad it could be? As bad as
               | Samsung's 8nm? Or Intel's 10nm? Even they delivered
               | something in the end. What did GF deliver? A whole
               | fucking nothing. Samsung had Nvidia and Qualcomm as their
               | customers even with its, ehm, _not so good_ 8nm process.
               | It was a sure bet GF was going to have some customers as
               | long as they delivered _something_ (and I don 't even
               | count AMD's wafer supply agreement).
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | It could be arbitrarily bad. 1% yields, 0.01% yields,
               | 0.00001% yields. Having to write each wafer with an
               | electron beam because they couldn't get EUV to work at
               | 7nm.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | It could be, but on the other hand it could be freaking
               | fantastic, too. The only way we'd know _if they 've
               | fucking did it_, which is my point.
               | 
               | Since it didn't happen, the only thing we know is what
               | they said and they said it was because of "strategic
               | shift"
               | 
               | > Tom Caulfield also mentioned GF needed $3 billion
               | dollars of additional capital to get to 12,000 wpm and
               | they could only fund half of it through cash flow, they
               | would have to borrow the other half and the projected
               | return wasn't good.
               | 
               | > When Tom took over as CEO he went out on the road and
               | visited GF's customers. What he found was a lack of
               | commitment to GF's 7 nm process in the customer base.
               | Many customers were never going to go to 7 nm and of the
               | customers who were, GF wouldn't have enough capacity to
               | meet their demands. There was also concern in the
               | customer base that 7 nm would take up all the R&D and
               | capital budgets and starve the other processes they
               | wanted to use of investment.
               | 
               | (https://semiwiki.com/wikis/company-
               | wikis/globalfoundries-wik...)
        
               | exmadscientist wrote:
               | I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating: it's
               | been seven years since the cancellation of 7LP. They have
               | launched nothing even near the leading edge since 12LP+.
               | 
               | If 7LP worked, given this market and its hunger for
               | capacity, it'd be in production at at least small scale.
               | Equipment costs are down and knowledge has disseminated,
               | making it a lot cheaper to launch, especially as "7nm"
               | isn't the leading edge any more.
               | 
               | I don't think it works.
        
               | sct202 wrote:
               | GlobalFoundries didn't design their own 14/12nm process
               | it was licensed from Samsung.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | that's beside the point. The point is they executed it
               | pretty well.
        
               | phkahler wrote:
               | >> Fab business has always had companies leapfrogging
               | each other, it turns out the worst sin is not trying.
               | GloFo's greedy investors chose to bury the business in
               | the ground for their short term profits.
               | 
               | Name company making chips with EUV that is not TSMC,
               | Samsung, or Intel?
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | 3 company managed to do it, was there a law forbidding a
               | 4th one from doing so?
        
             | MangoCoffee wrote:
             | >Imagine canning your 7nm process last minute only few
             | years before the chip shortage.
             | 
             | https://www.eetimes.com/samsung-globalfoundries-prep-14nm-
             | pr...
             | 
             | "Samsung expects to be in production late this year with a
             | 14 nm FinFET process it has developed. GlobalFoundries has
             | licensed the process and will have it in production early
             | next year."
             | 
             | GlobalFoundries licensed 14nm from Samsung. How do you know
             | GlobalFoundries is capable of 7nm?
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | This was from 02014, btw.
        
               | MangoCoffee wrote:
               | that's my point. how does OP know GlobalFoundries is
               | capable of 7nm if they can't even do 14nm. do you have
               | any insider info that you can share?
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | I agree, and I wrote a longer comment agreeing with your
               | point at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44503245.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | No I don't have insider info. Neither do you. What an
               | ridiculous nit to pick.
        
               | d332 wrote:
               | btw, what's with the leading zero here?
        
               | WithinReason wrote:
               | It's there to provoke your question
        
               | tonyedgecombe wrote:
               | Best to just downvote it then.
        
               | gruturo wrote:
               | Indeed. Consider it trolling, ignore it. It's just
               | stupid.
        
               | ajb wrote:
               | It's a meme that's supposed to get people to think in
               | >4-digit timescales, apparently. Always makes me think of
               | octal TBH
        
               | badc0ffee wrote:
               | He's talking about AD 1036. Try to keep up
        
               | AnimalMuppet wrote:
               | It's "Long Now" stuff, which really should be called
               | "Medium Now" because they're only using _one_ leading
               | zero.
               | 
               | kragen thinks making most of his readers glitch for a
               | second every time they read one of his dates is worth it
               | on order to advertise for the Long Now. Really
               | unfortunate choice, since he often has decent information
               | to share.
        
               | kasabali wrote:
               | _I know that_ , but I've brought it up anyway. It's
               | irrelevant who they've licenced it from because they
               | executed it god damn well.
        
             | ryao wrote:
             | That was a huge gift to AMD since it let them use TSMC as
             | for fabrication instead, and they gained a process node
             | advantage over Intel for the first time in history.
             | 
             | My guess is that the guys in Abu Dhabi did not want to do
             | the investments needed to bring 7nm into production. They
             | lost a huge opportunity because of that. At the time, it
             | probably looked like the right financial decision to them,
             | even though practically everyone affected downstream
             | thought it was myopic.
        
             | pantalaimon wrote:
             | Intel struggled for years with their 7nm process to the
             | point where they are now fabbing their latest ICs at TSCM.
             | 
             | Pursuing 7nm would have likely bankrupted GloFo.
        
         | cpldcpu wrote:
         | They decided to pivot to innovation that does not require
         | extreme CMOS scaling. For example, they focussed heavily on
         | ultra-low-power SOI at 28nm.
         | 
         | Keep in mind that your iphone only has very few chips in <10nm
         | technology. The rest is using much larger groundrules, even the
         | memory.
        
           | StillBored wrote:
           | But that stuff tends to be much lower margin, and while this
           | year you might have the best power/price numbers, next year
           | someone figures out their product is even lower power on some
           | newer fab that is slowly lowering its price and now the
           | competition forces the margin even lower. Repeat until you
           | have some 40 year old fabs and no customers.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | Consider also that 28nm planar transistors are more durable
             | than FINFET, especially in the dissipation of heat.
             | 
             | The automobile industry showed us that there is demand for
             | older nodes.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | >> Suddenly another company that has (old?) fabs and a cpu
         | design team in-house
         | 
         | Glo-flo is leading edge for anyone without EUV.
        
           | halJordan wrote:
           | Not having euv means you have old fabs.
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | SMIC is someone without EUV who is shipping 7nm for two years
           | now.
        
       | somanyphotons wrote:
       | How are the various riscv cpu IP vendors generally doing
       | financially?
       | 
       | Is this the very beginning of a market consolidation?
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | I don't think people generally pay for RISC-V CPU IP.
        
           | somanyphotons wrote:
           | Sure they do, most IP is proprietary
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | They do if they aren't implementing the ISA in silicon
           | themselves. Its interesting to see who's designs are selling,
           | who's aren't and why.
        
           | Keyframe wrote:
           | For ISA? Certainly not. For actual designs, for sure. Why
           | wouldn't they unless there's some open source designs they'd
           | be using?
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Well, because there are open-source designs they'd be
             | using. The GD32V microcontroller, for example, uses
             | Nucleisys's BumbleBee, and high-performance chips from
             | several vendors use Brother Honey Badger's Apache-licensed
             | XuanTie C910: https://github.com/XUANTIE-RV/openc910
             | 
             | But see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44503847
        
           | aseipp wrote:
           | Companies that are putting down millions for fab runs
           | absolutely pay shitloads of money for it. The cost of design
           | and verification of those components is enormous and that's
           | mostly what you pay for. People have been shipping Andes and
           | SiFive IP for years now. Downloading source dumps for C910
           | cores is not the hard part.
           | 
           | For most places that kind of high-cost work doesn't make much
           | sense when their product isn't "a CPU", and they also
           | typically have to buy other IP anyway like memory controllers
           | or I/O blocks -- so buying a CPU core isn't that strange in
           | the grand scheme.
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Thank you very much!
        
         | 6SixTy wrote:
         | There are _a lot_ of different CPU IP vendors working on
         | RISC-V. China 's a big source of it, and I shouldn't have to
         | explain why.
        
       | sloemoe wrote:
       | Put that in your delay slot and smoke it.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_slot
       | 
       | I'm surprised by how many other architectures use it.
        
         | jnwatson wrote:
         | The TI C40 used them.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | It seemed like a good idea in 01981; the purported expansion of
         | MIPS was "Microprocessor without Interlocked Pipeline Stages",
         | although of course it's a pun on "millions of instructions per
         | second". By just omitting the interlock logic necessary to
         | detect branch hazards and putting the responsibility on the
         | compiler, you get a chip that can run faster with less
         | transistors. IBM's 45000-transistor 32-bit RISC "ROMP" was
         | fabbed for use in IBM products that year, which gives you an
         | idea of how precious silicon area was at the time.
         | 
         | Stanford MIPS was extremely influential, which was undoubtedly
         | a major factor in many RISC architectures copying the delay-
         | slot feature, including SPARC, the PA-RISC, and the i860. But
         | the delay slot really only simplifies a particular narrow range
         | of microarchitectures, those with almost exactly the same
         | pipeline structure as the original. If you want to lengthen the
         | pipeline, either you have to add the interlocks back in, or you
         | have to add extra delay slots, breaking binary compatibility.
         | So delay slots fell out of favor fairly quickly in the 80s.
         | Maybe they were never a good tradeoff.
         | 
         | One of the main things pushing people to RISC in the 80s was
         | virtual memory, specifically, the necessity of being able to
         | restart a faulted instruction after a page fault. (See Mashey's
         | masterful explanation of why this doomed the VAX in
         | https://yarchive.net/comp/vax.html.) RISC architectures
         | generally didn't have multiple memory accesses or multiple
         | writes per instruction (ARM being a notable exception), so all
         | the information you needed to restart the failed instruction
         | successfully was in the saved program counter.
         | 
         | But delay slots pose a problem here! Suppose the faulting
         | instruction is the delay-slot instruction following a branch.
         | The next instruction to execute after resuming that one could
         | either be the instruction that was branched to, or the
         | instruction at the address after the delay-slot instruction,
         | depending on whether the branch was taken or not. That means
         | you need to either take the fault _before_ the branch, or the
         | fault handler needs to save at least the branch-taken bit. I
         | 've never programmed a page-fault handler for MIPS, the SPARC,
         | PA-RISC, or the i860, so I don't know how they handle this, but
         | it seems like it implies extra implementation complexity of
         | precisely the kind Hennessy was trying to weasel out of.
         | 
         | The WP page also mentions that MIPS had _load_ delay slots,
         | where the datum you loaded wasn 't available in the very next
         | instruction. I'm reminded that the Tera MTA actually had a
         | _variable_ number of load delay slots, specified in a field in
         | the load instruction, to allow the compiler to allow as many
         | instructions as it could for the memory reference to come back
         | from RAM over the packet-switching network. (The CPU would then
         | stall your thread if the load took longer than the allotted
         | number of instructions, but the idea was that a compiler that
         | prefetched enough stuff into your thread 's huge register set
         | could make such stalls very rare.)
        
           | garaetjjte wrote:
           | I think program counter is backed up and branch is just re-
           | executed. Though it's annoying if handler wants to skip over
           | faulting instruction (eg. it was a syscall), as it now needs
           | to emulate the branch behavior in software. Most of the
           | complexity is punted on the software, I think only hardware
           | tweak needed is keeping in-delay-slot flag in fault
           | description, and keeping address of currently executing
           | instruction for fault reporting and PC-relative addressing
           | (which probably could be omitted otherwise, keeping only next
           | instruction address would be enough).
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | Thank you! I guess that, as long as the branch instruction
             | itself can't modify any of the state that would cause it to
             | branch or not, that's a perfectly valid solution. It seems
             | like load delay slots would be more troublesome; I wonder
             | how the MIPS R2000 and R3000 handled that? (I'm not sure
             | the Tera supported virtual memory.)
        
               | garaetjjte wrote:
               | Load delay slots doesn't seem to need special fault
               | handling support, you're not supposed to depend on old
               | value being there in the delay slot.
               | 
               | One more thing about branch delay slots: It seems
               | original SuperH went for very minimal solution. It
               | prevents interrupts being taken between branch and delay
               | slot, and not much else. PC-relative accesses are
               | relative to the branch target, and faults are also
               | reported with branch target address. As far I can see
               | this makes faults in branch delay slots unrecoverable. In
               | SH-3 they patched that by reporting faults in delay slots
               | for taken branches with branch address itself, so things
               | can be fixed up in the fault handler.
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | Hmm, I guess that if the load instruction doesn't change
               | anything except the destination register (unlike, for
               | example, postincrement addressing modes) and the delay-
               | slot instruction also can't do anything that would change
               | the effective address being loaded from before it faulted
               | (and can't depend on the old value), then you're right
               | that it wouldn't need any special fault handling support.
               | I'd never tried to think this through before, but it
               | makes sense. I appreciate it.
               | 
               | As for SH2, ouch! So SH2 got pretty badly screwed by
               | delay slots, eh?
        
         | vesinisa wrote:
         | Whoa, had no idea this existed. Wild stuff. Might be "somewhat"
         | confusing to read assembler code like that without knowing
         | about this particular technique..
        
           | chasil wrote:
           | Allow me to introduce you to register windows.
           | 
           | https://www.jwhitham.org/2016/02/risc-instruction-sets-i-
           | hav...
        
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