[HN Gopher] The era of exploration
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       The era of exploration
        
       Author : jxmorris12
       Score  : 101 points
       Date   : 2025-07-07 15:23 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (yidingjiang.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (yidingjiang.github.io)
        
       | webdevver wrote:
       | speaking of exploration, has anyone ever thought about non-
       | cartesian displays? say, pixels that are arranged in a hexagonal
       | pattern. or pixels arranged in a radial pattern and addressed via
       | polar coordinates.
       | 
       | what pattern are human color/light sensors arranged in? maybe we
       | should replicate that pattern? an organic arrangement discovered
       | via simulated annealing?
       | 
       | all this bitmap x/y display stuff is very pre-AI-ish. old tech.
       | victorian era clockwork mechanism. built to make it easy to
       | reason about for humans, before the advent of neuron-soup. maybe
       | we can do better?
        
         | AlotOfReading wrote:
         | Yes, it's been well-explored and there's a number of clever
         | ways to convert them back to Cartesian coordinates because
         | those are much nicer to work with for humans.
         | 
         | The very earliest color CRTs used triangular arrangements of
         | subpixels for each color, for example.
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | This pattern?
         | 
         | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ConeMosaics.jpg
         | 
         | Maybe we should put the electronics in a layer in front of the
         | display, make them transparent, and use them to filter the
         | light. The vertebrate retina does something like that, putting
         | nerves in front of light sensors. Imitating evolved solutions
         | isn't always a good idea. Nature's design process is like:
         | start with the wrong parts for the job. Lay them out back to
         | front. Wire them together the long way round. Adapt this design
         | slightly and latch on to any convenient side effects. Iterate
         | ten billion times. Now it works pretty good! Or it doesn't, but
         | the species survives anyway, which is also fine since there is
         | no goal.
        
       | visarga wrote:
       | I like this approach. It's not that intelligence is in the brain
       | or the model, and it should not be a noun. It is a process, a
       | search process based on exploration and learning.
       | 
       | Think of a river - the water carves the banks, the banks channel
       | the water. Which is the real river?
       | 
       | A model is like the river banks, it is not intelligent in itself.
       | Neither is activity by itself. Intelligence comes from their co-
       | constitutive relation.
       | 
       | You can see the structure+flow coupling in many places. The model
       | weights (banks) vs the training set (water). The contextual
       | tokens (banks) vs the mass of probability for the next token
       | (water). Agent environment (banks) vs agent activity (water).
       | 
       | The trick here is that neither is capable of explaining the
       | process, or more fundamental than the other. It is a recursive
       | process rewriting its own rules.
       | 
       | And we know from Godel, Turing and Chaitin that recursive
       | processes exhibit incompleteness, undecidability and
       | incompressibility. There is no way to predict them from outside,
       | they can only be known only through unrolling, you have to be
       | inside, or you have to be it to know it.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | +1, Brilliant metaphor, thanks for your thought-provoking
         | comment!
        
         | patcon wrote:
         | You are one of the few random HN users who have your own page
         | in my personal knowledgebase, because I consistently see your
         | wonderful comments and i can only hope to be swimming in
         | parallel to your perspectives :)
         | 
         | Thanks for your great contributions, especially your dedication
         | to metaphor!
        
         | close04 wrote:
         | > Think of a river - the water carves the banks, the banks
         | channel the water. Which is the real river?
         | 
         | Fantastic metaphor.
         | 
         | I also can't help but draw a parallel (or even an overlap) with
         | how the process works for humans. Once you put aside the
         | intrinsic "model" (brain) differences (nature vs. nurture),
         | humans develop their intelligence the same way: relentless
         | exploration, and _decision making_ to guide that exploration.
         | We don 't just funnel new info into a child's brain, they're
         | allowed to explore threads around that, and take different
         | paths which then guide how to process the next bit of info.
         | 
         | If we're looking at building anything like human intelligence,
         | the only advanced general intelligence we know and understand
         | to a degree, exploration will be critical.
        
         | AndrewKemendo wrote:
         | You might like my latest work id be curious your feedback
         | 
         | https://kemendo.com/GTC.pdf
        
       | dodomodo wrote:
       | reminds me of a tweet
       | https://x.com/nearcyan/status/1937640182863548827
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | "Exploration" is a funny word for "copyright infringement." I
       | seem to recall that our society fined college kids $150,000 per
       | song download.
       | 
       | I suspect that the amount of freely available text, video, and
       | audio will decrease once entities like Disney start winning
       | lawsuits. Alternatively, anyone who doesn't want their work to be
       | crawled and trained from will keep their work behind
       | login/paywalls moving forward.
       | 
       | I think it's entirely fair that there should be a robots.txt type
       | of mechanism for sites to opt out of being crawled for training,
       | and we might see places like the EU come up with something of
       | that sort.
        
         | frozenseven wrote:
         | >"copyright infringement"
         | 
         | Throwing around scary words means very little. You're using a
         | highly unorthodox interpretation of that concept. Even the
         | anti-AI lawsuits are typically focused on specific model
         | outputs or some other technicality.
         | 
         | >entities like Disney
         | 
         | The same company that's now publishing papers on generative AI?
         | See the HN front page right now.
         | 
         | >keep their work behind login/paywalls moving forward
         | 
         | At what cost? Raging against a new technology like this is sure
         | to backfire. Not only are you crippling yourself in terms of
         | regular search engine visibility, there's now a non-negligible
         | amount of traffic coming from AI search. And the average person
         | will have even less of a reason to interact with you.
         | Logins/paywalls are a nuisance. Especially if AI is producing
         | competitive results to whatever you have to offer.
        
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