[HN Gopher] I extracted the safety filters from Apple Intelligen...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I extracted the safety filters from Apple Intelligence models
        
       I managed to reverse engineer the encryption (refered to as
       "Obfuscation" in the framework) responsible for managing the safety
       filters of Apple Intelligence models. I have extracted them into a
       repository. I encourage you to take a look around.
        
       Author : BlueFalconHD
       Score  : 503 points
       Date   : 2025-07-06 19:50 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | There's got to be a way to turn these lists of "naughty words"
       | into shibboleths somehow.
        
         | spydum wrote:
         | Love idea, but I think there are simply too many models to make
         | it practical?
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | Like asking sensitive employment candidates about Kim Jong Un's
         | roundness to check if they're North Korean spies, we could ask
         | humans what they think about Trump and Palestine to check if
         | they're computers.
         | 
         | However, I think about half of real humans would also fail the
         | test.
        
       | mike_hearn wrote:
       | Are you sure it's fully deobfuscated? What's up with reject
       | phrases like "Granular mango serpent"?
        
         | tablets wrote:
         | Maybe something to do with this?
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mango_cult
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | the one at the bottom of the README spells out xcode
         | 
         | wyvern illustrous laments darkness
        
           | cwmoore wrote:
           | read every good expletive "xxx"
        
         | andy99 wrote:
         | I clicked around a bit and this seems to be the most common
         | phrase. Maybe it's a test phrase?
        
           | the-rc wrote:
           | Maybe it's used to catch clones of the models?
        
         | electroly wrote:
         | "GMS" = Generative Model Safety. The example from the readme is
         | "XCODE". These seem to be acronyms spelled out in words.
        
           | BlueFalconHD wrote:
           | This is definitely the right answer. It's just testing stuff.
        
         | pbhjpbhj wrote:
         | Speculation: Maybe they know that the real phrase is close
         | enough in the vector space to be treated as synonymous with
         | "granular mango serpent". The phrase then is like a nickname
         | that only the models authors know the expected interference of?
         | 
         | Thus a pre-prompt can avoid mentioning the actual forbidden
         | words, like using a patois/cant.
        
         | BlueFalconHD wrote:
         | These are the contents read by the Obfuscation functions
         | exactly. There seems to be a lot of testing stuff still though,
         | remember these models are relatively recent. There is a true
         | safety model being applied after these checks as well, this is
         | just to catch things before needing to load the safety model.
        
         | KTibow wrote:
         | Maybe it's used to verify that the filter is loaded.
        
         | RainyDayTmrw wrote:
         | I commented in another thread[1] that it's most likely a
         | unique, artificial QA input, to avoid QA having to repeatedly
         | use offensive phrases or whatever.
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44486374
        
         | consonaut wrote:
         | If you try to use the phrase with Apple Intelligence (e.g. in
         | Notes asking for a rewrite) it will just say "Writing tools
         | unavailable".
         | 
         | Maybe it's an easy test to ensure the filters are loaded with a
         | phrase unlikely to be used accidentaly?
        
       | seeknotfind wrote:
       | Long live regex!
        
       | binarymax wrote:
       | Wow, this is pretty silly. If things are like this at Apple I'm
       | not sure what to think.
       | 
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
       | 
       | EDIT: just to be clear, things like this are easily bypassed.
       | "Boris Johnson"=>"B0ris Johnson" will skip right over the regex
       | and will be recognized just fine by an LLM.
        
         | deepdarkforest wrote:
         | It's not silly. I would bet 99% of the users don't care that
         | much to do that. A hardcoded regex like this is a good first
         | layer/filter, and very efficient
        
           | BlueFalconHD wrote:
           | Yep. These filters are applied first before the safety model
           | (still figuring out the architecture, I am pretty confident
           | it is an LLM combined with some text classification) runs.
        
             | brookst wrote:
             | All commercial LLM products I'm aware of use dedicated
             | safety classifiers and then alter the prompt to the LLM if
             | a classifier is tripped.
        
               | latency-guy2 wrote:
               | The safety filter appears on both ends (or multi-ended
               | depending on the complexity of your application), input
               | and output.
               | 
               | I can tell you from using Microsoft's products that
               | safety filters appears in a bunch of places. M365 for
               | example, your prompts are never totally your prompts,
               | every single one gets rewritten. It's detailed here:
               | https://learn.microsoft.com/en-
               | us/copilot/microsoft-365/micr...
               | 
               | There's a more illuminating image of the Copilot
               | architecture here: https://i.imgur.com/2vQYGoK.png which
               | I was able to find from https://labs.zenity.io/p/inside-
               | microsoft-365-copilot-techni...
               | 
               | The above appears to be scrubbed, but it used to be
               | available from the learn page months ago. Your messages
               | get additional context data from Microsoft's Graph, which
               | powers the enterprise version of M365 Copilot. There's
               | significant benefits to this, and downsides. And
               | considering the way Microsoft wants to control things,
               | you will get an overindex toward things that happen
               | inside of your organization than what will happen in the
               | near real-time web.
        
           | twoodfin wrote:
           | Efficient at what?
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | Sounds like UK politics is taboo?
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | All politics is taboo, except the sort that helps Apple get
           | richer. (Or any other company, in that company's "safety"
           | filters)
        
         | tpmoney wrote:
         | I doubt the purpose here is so much to prevent someone from
         | intentionally side stepping the block. It's more likely here to
         | avoid the sort of headlines you would expect to see if someone
         | was suggested "I wish ${politician} would die" as a response to
         | an email mentioning that politician. In general you should view
         | these sorts of broad word filters as looking to short circuit
         | the "think of the children" reactions to Tiny Tim's phone
         | suggesting not that God should "bless us, every one", but that
         | God should "kill us, every one". A dumb filter like this is
         | more than enough for that sort of thing.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | It would also substantially disrupt the generation process: a
           | model which sees B0ris and not Boris is going to struggle to
           | actually associate that input to the politician since it
           | won't be well represented in the training set (and on the
           | output side the same: if it does make the association, a
           | reasoning model for example would include the proper name in
           | the output first at which point the supervisor process can
           | reject it).
        
             | quonn wrote:
             | I don't think so. My impression with LLMs is that they
             | correct typos well. I would imagine this happens in early
             | layers without much impact on the remaining computation.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | "Draw a picture of a gorgon with the face of the 2024 Prime
             | Minister of UK."
        
               | chgs wrote:
               | There were two.
        
             | binarymax wrote:
             | No it doesn't disrupt. This is a well known capability of
             | LLMs. Most models don't even point out a mistake they just
             | carry on.
             | 
             | https://chatgpt.com/share/686b1092-4974-8010-9c33-86036c88e
             | 7...
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | > If things are like this at Apple I'm not sure what to think.
         | 
         | I don't know what you expected? This is the SOTA solution, and
         | Apple is barely in the AI race as-is. It makes more sense for
         | them to copy what works than to bet the farm on a courageous
         | feature nobody likes.
        
         | stefan_ wrote:
         | Why are these things always so deeply unserious? Is there no
         | one working on "safety in AI" (oxymoron in itself of course)
         | that has a meaningful understanding of what they are actually
         | working with and an ability beyond an interns weekend project?
         | Reminds me of the cybersecurity field that got the 1% of people
         | able to turn a double free into code execution while 99% peddle
         | checklists, "signature scanning" and deal in CVE numbers.
         | 
         | Meanwhile their software devs are making
         | GenerativeExperiencesSafetyInferenceProviders so it must be
         | dire over there, too.
        
         | Aeolun wrote:
         | The LLM will. But the image generation model that is trained on
         | a bunch of pre-specified tags will almost immediately spit out
         | unrecognizable results.
        
         | Lockal wrote:
         | What prevents Apple from applying a quick anti-typo LLM which
         | restores B0ris, unalive, fixs tpyos, and replaces "slumbering
         | steed" with a "sleeping horse", not just for censorship, but
         | also to improve generation results?
        
           | the_mar wrote:
           | why do you think this doesn't already exist?
        
       | trebligdivad wrote:
       | Some of the combinations are a bit weird, This one has lots of
       | stuff avoiding death....together with a set ensuring all the
       | Apple brands have the correct capitalisation. Priorities hey!
       | 
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | andy99 wrote:
         | > Apple brands have the correct capitalisation. Priorities hey!
         | 
         | To me that's really embarrassing and insecure. But I'm sure for
         | branding people it's very important.
        
           | WillAdams wrote:
           | Legal requirement to maintain a trademark.
        
             | grues-dinner wrote:
             | In what way would (A|a)pple's own AI writing "imac"
             | endanger the trademark? Is capitalisation even part of a
             | word-based trademark?
             | 
             | I'm more surprised they don't have a rule to do that rather
             | grating s/the iPhone/iPhone/ transform (or maybe it's in a
             | different file?).
        
               | sbierwagen wrote:
               | Yes, proper nouns are capitalized.
               | 
               | And of course it's much _worse_ for a company 's
               | published works to not respect branding-- a trademark
               | only exists if it is actively defended. Official
               | marketing material by a company has been used as legal
               | evidence that their trademark has been genericized:
               | 
               | >In one example, the Otis Elevator Company's trademark of
               | the word "escalator" was cancelled following a petition
               | from Toledo-based Haughton Elevator Company. In rejecting
               | an appeal from Otis, an examiner from the United States
               | Patent and Trademark Office cited the company's own use
               | of the term "escalator" alongside the generic term
               | "elevator" in multiple advertisements without any
               | trademark significance.[8]
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generic_trademark
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | Using a trademark as a noun is automatically
               | genericizing. Capitalization of a noun is irrelevant to
               | trademark.
               | 
               | Even Apple corporation says that in their trademark
               | guidance page, despite constantly breaking their own
               | rule, when they call through iPhone phones "iPhone". But
               | Apple, like founder Steve Jobs, believes the rules don't
               | apply to them.
               | 
               | https://www.apple.com/legal/intellectual-
               | property/trademark/...
        
               | eastbound wrote:
               | That explains why Steve Jobs never said "buy an iPhone"
               | or "buy the iPhone" but "buy iPhone" (They always use it
               | without "the" or "a", like "buying a brand").
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Is that true? If so, what else should Apple call the
               | iPhone in their marketing materials?
               | 
               | I always thought the actual problem of genericization
               | would be calling _any smartphone_ an iPhone.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Sure, but software that autocompletes/rewords users'
               | emails and text messages is not marketing material.
               | 
               | Otherwise, why stop there? Why not have the macOS
               | keyboard driver or Safari prevent me from typing
               | "Iphone"? Why not have iOS edit my voice if I call their
               | Bluetooth headphones "earbuds pro" in a phone call?
        
               | socalgal2 wrote:
               | Sounds like you found your next promotion at Apple. They
               | can change anything. "I like Pepsi" -> "I like Coke" ->
               | "I recommend Company A" -> "I recommend Company B".
               | etc... "I'm voting for Candidate C" -> "I'm voting for
               | Candidate D"
               | 
               | You can market it is helping people with strong accents
               | to be able make calls and be less likely to be
               | misunderstood. It just happens to "fix" your grammar as
               | well.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Because in regards to the rights to a trademark, what is
               | critical is the use of the word in trade -- not just
               | "marketing material" nor your phone calls to your
               | friends.
        
               | spauldo wrote:
               | I love seeing posts about Emacs from IOS users - it's
               | always autocorrected to "eMacs."
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | Maybe at some point, but as far as I can tell not anymore
               | (while corrections like "iphone -> iPhone" are still
               | there).
        
               | chgs wrote:
               | eMacs certainly is broken on my phone. Vim is fine
               | though.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | In their own marketing language, sure, but to force this on
             | their users' speech?
             | 
             | Consider that these models, among other things, power
             | features such as "proofread" or "rewrite professionally".
        
             | bigyabai wrote:
             | If Apple Intelligence is going to be held legally
             | accountable, Apple has larger issues than trademark
             | obligations.
        
           | whywhywhywhy wrote:
           | To be fair to the developers it's something an Apple exec is
           | gonna point out when demoed the tech and complain about.
           | They've always taken brand capitalization and grammar around
           | their products seriously.
        
         | grues-dinner wrote:
         | Interesting that it didn't seem to include "unalive".
         | 
         | Which as a phenomenon is so very telling that no one actually
         | cares what people are _really_ saying. Everyone, including the
         | platforms knows what that means. It 's all performative.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | It's totally performative. There's no way to stay ahead of
           | the new language that people create.
           | 
           | At what point do the new words become the actual words? Are
           | there many instances of people using unalive IRL?
        
             | freeone3000 wrote:
             | It depends on if you think that something is less real
             | because it's transmitted digitally.
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | No, I'm only thinking that we're not permitted in a lot
               | of digital spaces to use the banned words (e.g. suicide),
               | but IRL doesn't generally have those limits. Is there a
               | point where we use the censored word so much that it
               | spills over into the real world?
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Is this not essentially the same effect as saying "lol"
               | out loud?
        
               | eastbound wrote:
               | People use "lol" IRL, as long as "IRL", "aps" in French
               | (misspelling of "pas"), but it's just slang; "unalive"
               | has potential to make it in the news where anchors don't
               | want to use curse words.
        
             | fouronnes3 wrote:
             | This question is sort of the same as asking why the
             | universal translator wasn't able to translate the metaphor
             | language of the Star Trek episode Darmok. Surely if the
             | metaphor has become the first order meaning then there's no
             | litteral meaning anymore.
        
               | qingcharles wrote:
               | I guess, so far, the people inventing the words have left
               | the meaning clear with things like "un-alive" which is
               | readable even to someone coming across it for the first
               | time.
               | 
               | Your point stands when we start replacing the banned
               | words with things like "suicide" for "donkeyrhubarb" and
               | then the walls really will fall.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | This form of obfuscation has actually already occurred
               | over a century ago:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockney_rhyming_slang
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | Rhyming slang rhymes tho. The recipient can understand
               | what's meant by de-obfuscating in-context. Random strings
               | substituted for $proscribed_word don't work in the same
               | way.
        
               | waterproof wrote:
               | In Cockney rhyming slang, the rhyming word (which would
               | be easy to reverse engineer) is omitted. So if "stairs"
               | is rhyme-paired with "apples and pears" and then people
               | just use the word "apples" in place of "stairs". "Pears"
               | is omitted in common use so you can't just reverse the
               | rhyme.
               | 
               | The example photo on Wikipedia includes the rhyming words
               | but that's not how it would be used IRL.
        
               | zimpenfish wrote:
               | See also Polari[0] and the Grass Mud Horse Lexicon[1]
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari
               | 
               | [1] https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=6538 (CDT
               | links broken, use [2])
               | 
               | [2] https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/Grass-
               | Mud_Horse_Lexicon_...
        
               | mananaysiempre wrote:
               | Aquatic product[1]?
               | 
               | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemisms_for_Internet
               | _censor...
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | An English equivalent is "sewer slide".
        
               | marcus_holmes wrote:
               | I've heard "pr0n" used in actual real-world conversation,
               | only slightly ironically.
        
               | tjwebbnorfolk wrote:
               | The only reason kids started using "unalive" is to get
               | around Youtube filters that disallow the use of the word
               | "kill"
        
               | mattigames wrote:
               | Pretty sure TikTok filters do the same and was also a
               | major influence in using that term
        
             | cheschire wrote:
             | If only we had a way to mass process the words people write
             | to each other, derive context from those words, and then
             | identify new slang designed to bypass filters...
        
             | apricot wrote:
             | > Are there many instances of people using unalive IRL
             | 
             | As a parent of a teenager, I see them use "unalive" non-
             | ironically as a synonym for "suicide" in all contexts,
             | including IRL.
        
               | kulahan wrote:
               | Well that's sad. They can't even face the _word_?
        
               | kevinventullo wrote:
               | It's not about whether they can face it. The younger
               | generations are more in tune with mental health and
               | topics like suicide than any previous generation. The
               | etymology of the euphemism was about avoiding online
               | censorship, while its "IRL" usage was merely absorbed
               | through familiarity from the online usage.
        
               | mcny wrote:
               | But unalive self is suicide and unalive is just death,
               | right? For example, You can unalive other people against
               | their will...
        
               | rhdunn wrote:
               | I've seen 'unalived' used as a synonym for 'died' or
               | 'killed' by YouTube minecrafters (e.g. CaptainSparkles)
               | to avoid YouTube's demonitization/censorship. For
               | example, using "I was unalived by a skeleton." instead of
               | "I was killed by a skeleton."
        
               | labster wrote:
               | The damaged interpret internet censorship and route
               | around it.
        
               | rootsudo wrote:
               | It's not about being intune, it's that their narrative is
               | shaped by the filters implemented by online interactions.
               | 
               | Online env ban the word suicide. No one uses it. unalive
               | is not banned. Discussion is the same, word or no word.
               | 
               | Vernacular 101.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | > _more in tune with mental health and topics like
               | suicide than any previous generation._
               | 
               | More in such a fad than any previous generation
        
               | apricot wrote:
               | I think it's just the term they immediately associate
               | with the idea. They see "unalive" more than "suicide"
               | online, so it becomes their default word for it. The fact
               | that it originates in automated censorship avoidance is
               | irrelevant.
        
               | animuchan wrote:
               | It's getting blocked / shadow banned / demonetized on
               | sites like YouTube, so naturally all commentary starts
               | using a synonym.
               | 
               | Unalive is one of the popular ones, but it's a whole
               | vocabulary at this point. Guess what "PDF file" stands
               | for.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | pedophile
        
               | ErrorNoBrain wrote:
               | If your teenager often talks about suicide, there could
               | be some issue that needs to be resolved.
               | 
               | Sincerely the child of a parent who committed suicide. He
               | mentioned suicide a few days before.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | "Unalive" is sort of... awkward in that silly online way.
               | But, we also have phrase like "off oneself," or just
               | euphemistically describing the person as having died.
               | It's always been a difficult topic to talk about, I don't
               | understand using it as a specific example of gen-Z
               | fragility.
               | 
               | Just that they suck at coming up with pithy new slang
               | terms.
        
               | anton-c wrote:
               | They do have some awful slang.
               | 
               | I agree though I think they're picking it up from online
               | censorship in this case, not being fragile.
        
             | Terr_ wrote:
             | > There's no way to stay ahead of the new language that
             | people create.
             | 
             | I'm imagining a new exploit: After someone says something
             | totally innocent, people gang up in the comments to _act_
             | like a terrible vicious slur has been said, and then the
             | moderation system (with an LLM involved somewhere)
             | "learns" that an arbitrary term is heinous eand indirectly
             | bans any discussion of that topic.
        
               | cyanydeez wrote:
               | you mean become 4chan?
        
               | Waterluvian wrote:
               | Hey I was pro-skub waaaay before all the anti-skub people
               | switched sides.
        
               | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
               | How dare you use that word. My parents died in the
               | Eastasin Civil war so that I could live freely without
               | you people calling us that.
        
               | thehappypm wrote:
               | Skub is a real slur tho so that one doesn't work
        
               | osn9363739 wrote:
               | Isn't that a reference to a 10 or 20 year old web comic?
        
               | heavyset_go wrote:
               | The latter, we're old.
        
               | sitharus wrote:
               | No it isn't, it's a reference to a Perry Bible Fellowship
               | comic https://pbfcomics.com/comics/skub/
               | 
               | (This one is sfw, not all of the comics are)
               | 
               | Even urban dictionary doesn't contain a definition for
               | skub as a slur.
        
               | Intermernet wrote:
               | I added one. It's under review. It's very self
               | referential.
        
               | jcynix wrote:
               | >Even urban dictionary doesn't contain a definition for
               | skub as a slur.
               | 
               | What about this then:
               | https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/skub
        
               | sitharus wrote:
               | That literally defines it as a word from the PBF comic I
               | cited? Nothing on that page defines it as a slur, just as
               | a word used to mock people who argue about
               | inconsequential things.
        
               | jcynix wrote:
               | Seems I misunderstood the notion of "slur" as I'm not a
               | native speaker. So now I've learned a bit ;-)
        
               | stirfish wrote:
               | Stop saying it! You're making it worse!
        
               | tbrownaw wrote:
               | I'm pretty sure this can work human moderators rather
               | than an LLM, too.
        
               | pyman wrote:
               | Most of the human moderators hired by OpenAI to train
               | LLMs, many of them based in Africa and South America,
               | were exposed to disturbing content and have been deeply
               | affected by it.
               | 
               | Karen Hao interviewed many of them in her latest
               | bestselling book, which explores the human cost behind
               | the OpenAI boom:
               | 
               | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222725518-empire-of-
               | ai
        
               | SXX wrote:
               | It's not like this unique to LLMs either. By some little
               | trolling on internet you easily can turn hand "OK
               | gesture" into a hate symbol of white supermacy. And fools
               | will fall for it.
        
               | overfeed wrote:
               | ...and then the bigots will fall for it too, and start
               | using it in earnest, completing the cycle.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | who cares what the bigots use?
               | 
               | If the bigots start using "thank you" as some code word,
               | should we stop saying it, lest we pollute our non-bigoted
               | discussions?
               | 
               | bigots drink coffee too, maybe we should stop drinking
               | it, because something-something...
        
               | Eisenstein wrote:
               | It's all context dependent. There can be words or symbols
               | which are totally benign but when used in a different
               | context do have impactful meaning. Case in point: cheese
               | pizza.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | I don't think we should treat human interactions like a
               | technical problem, where we look for edge cases and
               | outlandish hypotheticals to probe the edges of what is
               | possible.
               | 
               | If "thank you" became widely associated with bigots, and
               | had some negative meaning, to the point where it
               | genuinely distressed people, I'd avoid it. I think it has
               | a widespread enough normal meaning that there's almost no
               | chance of that happening, but it isn't impossible.
        
               | sillyfluke wrote:
               | >who cares what the bigots use
               | 
               | you'd think so, but people often operate where multiple
               | contexts could be valid.
               | 
               | Just as a thought experiment, if the eggplant emoji was
               | used to denote "ok" in messaging and then people starting
               | appropriating it for a sexual context, would you or the
               | general public think twice about continuing to use it to
               | mean "ok" on the off chance the other side may
               | misinterpret the meaning?
               | 
               | I would say most likely yes.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | This actually happened. Wan  was a symbol of
               | spirituality, divinity, good luck, health, prosperity,
               | etc. Then some bigots used it. What does Wan  mean to you
               | today?
        
               | SXX wrote:
               | It's still heavily used in Buddhism around the world, but
               | good lord what happen if you put it on your house in US
               | or EU.
        
               | sixothree wrote:
               | Someone I know from India bought a new car and put this
               | symbol on the hood (non-permanent) as a celebration. I
               | had to warn him to be careful. It felt bad. Then the
               | thought ran through my head - we're in the deep south,
               | who is really going to be that bothered about this and
               | also doesn't know about cultural usages. Even worse.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | Those that actually used them in the 20th century (like
               | they did in Asia, not some ancient vikings or whatever)
               | still use it.
               | 
               | And that symbol was 100% associated with the Nazis in the
               | West in the 20th century. Nobody used it at the time
               | before the war for anything else, except some tiny
               | fringe.
               | 
               | If it was some mainstream symbol or idiom, merely co-
               | adopted, we'd probably still be using it too.
               | 
               | If the Nazis used the cross for example,people wouldn't
               | stop using the sign of the cross.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | It's hack journalists reporting on BS totally fringe
               | activity as if it's "a thing", and then idiots who take
               | their cues from them
        
               | lynx97 wrote:
               | That reminds me of a question I have since I saw my first
               | LLM hallucination: How much do people think
               | hallucination/confabulation can be attributed to trolling
               | and sarcasm having slipped into the training data? Is it
               | possible we could get the rate of hallucinations down by
               | better filtering of cynicism from the traing data?
        
               | grues-dinner wrote:
               | The first half of that already happened with the OK
               | gesture: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49837898.
               | 
               | Though it would be fun to see what happens if an LLM if
               | used to ban anything that tends to generate heated
               | exchanges. It would presumably learn to ban racial terms,
               | politics and politicians and words like "immigrant" (i.e.
               | basically the list in this repo), but what else could it
               | be persuaded to ban? Vim and Emacs? SystemD? Anything
               | involving cyclists? Parenting advice?
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | People weren't using the OK gesture innocently. After
               | 4chan trolls decided to start pretending it was a white
               | supremacist symbol, actual white supremacists started
               | using it as a symbol.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | All 10 of them?
               | 
               | What about the other 7-8 billion people still using it
               | normally?
        
               | thephyber wrote:
               | Some were using it in the traditional unironic (and IMHO
               | cringe) way, similar to anyone who used the phrase "Let's
               | go, Brandon!" Before that NASCAR race when MAGAs adopted
               | it as ironic + coded vice signaling.
               | 
               | Quit being overly pedantic. We all knew there was an
               | unironic purpose for the gesture before it became ironic.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | I mean, advice from a person who considers the
               | traditional unironic use of OK as "cringe"...
               | 
               | Whatever dude
        
               | PunchyHamster wrote:
               | then congratulations on making white supremacists define
               | your langyage
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Do you still use swastikas as symbols of peace and love
               | because you don't want white supremacists to define your
               | language?
               | 
               | I strongly doubt you do that. Whether you like it or not,
               | the Nazis defined what the swastika means now.
        
               | anton-c wrote:
               | It's still seen in the countries that used it that way
               | and is seen as benign.
               | 
               | It can be easily summoned with the Japanese keyboard.
               | It's seen on Buddhist temples all over Asia.
        
               | mopsi wrote:
               | Finnish use of swastika predates Germany and the Finnish
               | Air Force Academy uses swastika to this day in their
               | official insignia:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Academy_(Finland)
               | 
               | Taboos are a cultural thing, and the world is
               | (thankfully) very far from having a monoculture shaped by
               | NYC's neurotic intellectuals.
        
               | coldtea wrote:
               | > _Do you still use swastikas as symbols of peace and
               | love because you don 't want white supremacists to define
               | your language?_
               | 
               | They were hardly ever used in the west for at least a
               | full millenium before the Nazis too (except a handful of
               | cases, where they still use them, like the Finnish Air
               | Force), so that's a moot analogy.
               | 
               | In Asia, they still use them just fine, in houses,
               | temples, businesses, and elsewhere.
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | The OK gesture has always been _very_ inappropriate in
               | most parts of the world.
        
               | chmod775 wrote:
               | > The OK gesture has always been very inappropriate in
               | most parts of the world.
               | 
               | No, it isn't, and especially hasn't been historically.
               | The negative connotations are overwhelmingly modern.
               | 
               | The areas where it is _very inappropriate_ right now
               | tally up to maybe 1 billion people*. That 's pretty far
               | from "most". For everyone else it is mostly positive,
               | neutral, or meaningless.
               | 
               | *Brazil, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Greece, Italy,
               | Spain, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, other parts of Eastern
               | Europe
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | _" No, it isn't, and especially hasn't been historically.
               | The negative connotations are overwhelmingly modern."_
               | 
               | Maybe that is what Richard Nixon thought as well when he
               | caused a little scandal using it in South America in
               | 1950. In 1992 when the _Chicago Tribune_ published  "
               | _HANDS OFF "_ mentioning said episode the negative
               | connotations still seemed to be in place[1].
               | 
               | In 1996 _The New York Times_ stated _" What's A-O.K. in
               | the U.S.A. Is Lewd and Worthless Beyond"_[2] as title of
               | an article confirming the negative connotations.
               | 
               | It is worth mentioning that this article lists Australia
               | amongst the places where the gesture is inappropriate. I
               | always thought it was something used only in the English-
               | speaking world but it seems in reality it is more like a
               | North American plus diving world thing.
               | 
               | If you don't believe the press, I traveled around the
               | world for more than 30 years and I can assure you in most
               | parts using your thumb and index finger for a visual OK
               | is not OK.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.chicagotribune.com/1992/01/26/hands-
               | off-34/
               | 
               | [2] https://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/18/weekinreview/what-
               | s-a-ok-...*
        
               | chmod775 wrote:
               | Care to add any country to the list then? Did I miss
               | anything? Let's see if we can push it past half of the
               | world's population, but I don't think we will.
               | 
               | > I can assure you in most parts using your thumb and
               | index finger for a visual OK is not OK.
               | 
               | You're moving goal posts. Of course it doesn't just mean
               | "OK" in some places.
               | 
               | What you actually claimed was "The OK gesture has always
               | been very inappropriate in most parts of the world."
               | 
               | Which is plain wrong. In India for instance it can refer
               | to "money", while in China it can nowadays also be seen
               | as a distress signal when performed a certain way (thanks
               | to Chinese social media popularizing that use). There's
               | some ways you can mess this up, like making it seem
               | you're attempting to bribe someone, or signalling you're
               | in distress when you aren't, but in neither country the
               | gestures are inherently anywhere near "very
               | inappropriate" and both will even understand it as "OK"
               | if you perform it correctly and in the appropriate
               | context.
               | 
               | That's already almost 3 billion people, but let's say 2.5
               | billion because there's regional variations in both
               | countries and I'm sure you could find some northern
               | Chinese village that will take offense.
               | 
               | I can easily push the number of people to whom it is _not
               | inappropriate_ past 4 billion by adding smaller
               | populations (Indonesia, Japan, western Europe, USA,
               | Taiwan, South Africa, Kenya, Nigeria, ...), so your claim
               | that  "[it] has always been very inappropriate in most
               | parts of the world" cannot possibly be true.
        
               | weinzierl wrote:
               | > I can assure you in most parts using your thumb and
               | index finger for a visual OK is not OK.
               | 
               | >>You're moving goal posts. Of course it doesn't mean
               | "OK" in many
               | 
               | I said the gesture is _" not OK_" to use (meaning
               | inappropriate), not that it doesn't mean _" OK"_. Those
               | are two different things. The gesture can mean OK in some
               | places while still being not OK (inappropriate) to use in
               | many others.
               | 
               | Also, I always said _" parts of the world"_. You
               | introduced population into the argument.
        
               | chmod775 wrote:
               | > I said the gesture is "not OK" to use (meaning
               | inappropriate), not that it doesn't mean "OK". Those are
               | two different things. The gesture can mean OK in some
               | places while still being not OK (inappropriate) to use in
               | many others.
               | 
               | Fair. That's clearly how I should've read that.
               | 
               | Though it does not materially affect this conversation,
               | since demonstrably there's over 4 billion people to whom
               | the gesture is _not_ inappropriate. The claim  "[it] has
               | always been very inappropriate in most parts of the
               | world" is wrong, regardless of what reasonable definition
               | of "most" you use.
               | 
               | You edited your comment to add this, so I'll respond
               | here:
               | 
               | > Also, I always said "parts of the world". You
               | introduced population into the argument.
               | 
               | Right. And you're being vague on how you actually arrive
               | at your claim of "most", which conveniently keeps the
               | waters muddy while you attack attempts to turn this into
               | something measurable.
               | 
               | So what other measure would you use? Most others are
               | nonsense.
               | 
               | For example "places" isn't a useful measure, but even
               | then: It can only be offensive to people. If I dropped
               | you on a random point on the globe and you made that
               | gesture, there's about a 99% chance nobody would be
               | around to be offended.
               | 
               | By land area and predominant culture? Just Antarctica
               | (hardly anyone there to take offense), the US, China,
               | Canada, Australia, and India together are going to dwarf
               | the opposition.
               | 
               | Counting countries? It's clearly inappropriate in around
               | 10, with about another 20-30 where it can be
               | misunderstood easily (Arab world, some of eastern Europe,
               | scattered ones). A far cry from ~195 countries.
               | 
               | Either way there needs to be someone to take offense, so
               | population is a pretty good measure.
               | 
               | You may disagree, but the onus was always on you, the one
               | making the claim, to pick a measure and a definition of
               | "most", then show that the bar is met. Feel free to now
               | make more of an argument than "trust me I traveled".
        
               | mopsi wrote:
               | That might have been the case decades ago. For example,
               | in the USSR, various finger gestures usually implied
               | something related to a penis and were considered
               | extremely offensive. But that hasn't been the case since
               | at least the early 1990s, when VCRs became widely
               | available, people saw Hollywood movies for the first time
               | and got used to westernized meaning of thumbs-up and OK
               | gestures. Nowadays, when backing a truck towards a
               | trailer, a thumbs-up would be taken as "good job" and an
               | OK gesture (often paired with a kiss) as "exceptionally
               | well done".
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | It would probably ban discussion of censorship.
        
             | BurningFrog wrote:
             | A specialized AI could do it as well as any human.
             | 
             | The future will be AIs all the way down...
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | > At what point do the new words become the actual words?
             | 
             | Presumably, for this use-case, that would come at exactly
             | the point where using "unalive" as a keyword in an image-
             | generation prompt generates an image that Apple wouldn't
             | appreciate.
        
             | montagg wrote:
             | They become the "real words" later. This is the way all
             | trust & safety works. It's an evolution over time. Adding
             | _some_ friction does improve things, but some people will
             | always try to get around the filters. Doesn't mean it's
             | simply performative or one shouldn't try.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Why do you think that AI pretending things like suicide
               | don't happen (and that nothing is happening in Palestine)
               | is an improvement?
        
             | Rebelgecko wrote:
             | This is somewhat related to the concept of the "euphemism
             | treadmill":
             | 
             | the matter-of-fact term of today becomes the pejorative of
             | tomorrow so a new term is invented to avoid the negative
             | connotation of the original term. Then eventually the new
             | term becomes a pejorative and the cycle continues.
        
               | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
               | It has been suggested - although I am unsure if there is
               | strong evidence - that the word "bear" is a euphemism
               | along these lines, meaning "brown one" for the since-
               | forgotten original name for the animal, as it was
               | allegedly believed to be either too frightful to say
               | aloud, or would summon a bear.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | While it's conceivable (consider phrases such as "speak
               | of the devil and he shall appear" and similar phrases in
               | other languages), I would also say the etymology of names
               | for things are often at the same level as "brown one":
               | * Horse, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *kers-, "to
               | run"       * Planet, from Ancient Greek planetes
               | (planetes), "wanderer"       * Lots of Latin-derived
               | words, companion (bread together), conspire (breathe
               | together), transgression (step across), etc.       *
               | Hamburger the food named after the city of Hamburg, where
               | "burg" means "castle", because it had a castle       * My
               | forename means "son of the right/south" or "son of days",
               | my family name means "wheat field/clearing" (in a
               | different language); where "wheat" itself comes from
               | Proto-Germanic, from *hwitaz ("white") and the "ley" part
               | from Proto-Indo-European *lowkos ("clearing"), derived
               | from *lewk- ("bright"), and *lewk-  also gives all these
               | derived terms even just in English:
               | 
               | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_terms_der
               | ive...
        
               | 0points wrote:
               | It's not suggested, the historic use of noa words is a
               | fact.
               | 
               | See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name
        
               | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
               | I mean suggested in the sense that this specific example
               | cannot be evidenced, as there aren't any primary sources
               | from that time we can refer to.
        
               | whycome wrote:
               | I found out recently that "goof" is extremely offensive
               | in some circles. Which is insane to me because I've
               | always used it specifically because it's clearly in jest
               | and not meant to be offensive. I can't win.
        
             | nicoburns wrote:
             | > Are there many instances of people using unalive IRL?
             | 
             | In my experience yes. This is already commonplace. Mostly,
             | but not exclusively, amongst the younger generation.
        
               | PunchyHamster wrote:
               | I think it stemmed from content creators using it to
               | avoid platform filters (even if video is not removed it
               | gets deprioritized, at least on YT) and kids repeat it
        
             | joquarky wrote:
             | I feel like we can call our society mature when we no
             | longer need safety alignment in AI.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | You never tried some of the earlier pre-aligned chatbots.
               | Some of the early ones would go off on racist, homophobic
               | rants from the most innocent conversations without any
               | explicit prompting. If you train on all the data on the
               | internet, you have to have some type of alignment.
        
               | decremental wrote:
               | You say that as if it stands as truth on its own. We
               | actually don't need to filter out how people actually
               | talk and think. Otherwise you just end up with yet
               | another enforcer against wrong-think. I wonder if you
               | even think that deeply about it or if you're just wired
               | at this point to conform.
        
               | scarface_74 wrote:
               | Really? You would want every conversation no matter what
               | you were talking about to immediately devolve to
               | something you would see on 4chan?
        
             | girvo wrote:
             | My Gen Z coworkers use it IRL, for what that's worth!
        
             | bravesoul2 wrote:
             | There is one way: machine learning!
        
             | blitzar wrote:
             | Always has been, nothing is new.
             | 
             | You can't say fuck on tv, but you can say fudge as a 1 for
             | 1 replacement. You cant show people having sex, but you can
             | show them walking into a bedroom and then cut to 30 seconds
             | later and they are having a cigarette in bed.
             | 
             | Now after the influence of TV and Movies ... is Vaping
             | after sex a thing?
        
               | stripline wrote:
               | My kids watch streamers on YouTube and the common
               | replacement is "frick". It's said so often that they
               | started using it saying things like "what the frick!?" so
               | I had to explain to them that's essentially the same as
               | using the real word.
        
             | fer wrote:
             | > There's no way to stay ahead of the new language that
             | people create.
             | 
             | Not even to match the current language. How would you
             | censor LeBron James? It's French slang for jerking off[0].
             | 
             | [0]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFrance/comments/1lpnoj6/is_l
             | ebro...
        
             | xenator wrote:
             | Lucky developers who wrote these rules live in totality
             | different world at far distance from people
        
             | jama211 wrote:
             | Reducing the language used or making it harder does have
             | measurable effects, it's a logical fallacy in general that
             | unless you can prevent something perfectly that thing will
             | occur with the same frequency.
             | 
             | See many examples such as "padlocks are useless because a
             | determined smart attacker can defeat them easily so don't
             | bother with them" - which conveniently forgets that many
             | crimes are committed by non-determined, dumb and
             | opportunistic attackers who are often deterred by simple
             | locks.
             | 
             | Yes, people will use other words. No, this does not make
             | this purely performative. It has measurable effects on
             | behaviour and how these models will be used and spoken to,
             | which affects outcomes.
        
           | hulium wrote:
           | Seems more like it should stop the AI from e.g. summarizing
           | news and emails about death, not for a chat filter.
        
             | scarface_74 wrote:
             | For awhile, I couldn't get ChatGPT to give me summaries of
             | Breaking Bad and Better Canl Saul episodes without tripping
             | safety filters.
        
           | Zak wrote:
           | I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger backlash against
           | platforms that apply censorship of that sort.
        
           | martin-t wrote:
           | No-one cares yet.
           | 
           | There's a very scary potential future in which mega-
           | corporations start actually censoring topics they don't like.
           | For all I know the Chinese government is already doing it,
           | there's no reason the British or US one won't follow suit and
           | mandate such censorship. To protect children / defend against
           | terrorists / fight drugs / stop the spread of misinformation,
           | of course.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | They already clearly do on a number of topics?
        
             | os2warpman wrote:
             | HN has censorship that makes those apple rules look like
             | anarchy.
             | 
             | Write a spicy comment and a mod will memory-hole it and
             | someone, usually dang, will reply "tHat'S nOt OuR vIsIon
             | FoR hAcKeR nEwS, pLeAsE bE cIvIl" and we all swallow it
             | like a delicious hot cocoa.
             | 
             | If YC can control their product (and hn IS a product) to
             | annihilate any criticism of their activity or (even former)
             | staff, then Apple is perfectly within their rights to make
             | sure Siri doesn't talk about violence.
             | 
             | No, there's no difference.
        
           | elliotto wrote:
           | Unalive and other self censors were adopted by young people
           | because the tiktok algorithm would reprioritize videos that
           | included specific words. Then it made its way into the
           | culture. It has nothing to do with being performative
        
             | SOTGO wrote:
             | I think what they meant is that the platforms are being
             | performative by attempting to crack down on those specific
             | words. If saying "killed" is not allowed but "unalived" is
             | permitted and the users all agree that they mean the same
             | thing, then the ban on the word "killed" doesn't accomplish
             | anything.
        
               | mcny wrote:
               | What does using the grape emoji when talking about sexual
               | assault accomplish? I see videos, compassionate, kind
               | people who make videos speaking to victims in a
               | completely serious tone use this emoji.
               | 
               | People talk about tiktok algorithm on tiktok. I don't
               | even know...
        
               | grues-dinner wrote:
               | I suppose it accomplishes being able to talk about sexual
               | assault without having the video removed or demonetised
               | by a regex that (fortunately?) doesn't get updated.
        
           | cyanydeez wrote:
           | yo, these are businesses. It's not performative, its CYA.
           | 
           | They care because of legal reasons, not moral or ethical.
        
             | durkie wrote:
             | Seriously. I feel like "performative" gets applied to
             | anything imperfect. They'll never stop 100% of murders, so
             | these laws against it are just performative...
        
               | grues-dinner wrote:
               | It seems more like banning specifically stabbing,
               | shooting, strangulation and blunt impact rather then
               | murder in general, and then just allowing killing by
               | pushing out of windows because people figured out that
               | it's not covered by existing laws. But no one important
               | seems to be kicking up a fuss right now, so well allow
               | it, as the lack of fuss is the key thing thing here.
               | 
               | Not that I think going on a thorough mission to avoid
               | anyone even being able to refer to the concept of death
               | is an especially useful thing to do. It's just that goal
               | here appears to be to "keep the regulators out of our
               | shit and the advertisers signed up". And they'll be
               | mostly happy with a token effort as they don't really
               | care as long as it doesn't make too many headlines that
               | look bad even to the non-terminally online.
        
               | cyanydeez wrote:
               | The point is: "perfomative" refers to aping Ethical and
               | Moral behaviors. That is _not_ why Apple would do this.
               | They would do this because Legally, they could be
               | culpable if an LLM told a 14 year old to do _anything_
               | thats illegal.
               | 
               | That's all. I'm constantly amazed how this basic CYA
               | legal world escapes into griping about social culture war
               | nonsense.
        
               | grues-dinner wrote:
               | So then, should they not be on the watch for the 14-year-
               | old being told that "unaliving" themselves or others is a
               | fantastic idea?
               | 
               | Looks like they only care about doing basically the
               | minimum required to tick the (presumably partly imagined,
               | since case law is still nascent) "not our fault, we
               | tried" legal box. They are putting on a show, a
               | _performance_ , if you will, as legal cover and to
               | maintain the artifice of their shiny corporate property
               | rather than any genuine desire to stop the concept of
               | death harming their customers somehow (which to be clear,
               | I think mostly ends up somewhere between silly,
               | overreaching, futile and vain when taken to the
               | extremes).
               | 
               | > _performative_ (adjective, sense 2): not sincere but
               | intended to impress someone, prove that something is
               | true, etc. (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/e
               | nglish/performa...)
               | 
               | I'm not sure why you think that anything to with some
               | "culture war" thing?
               | 
               | It's legal/moral theatre akin to taking belts off people
               | at airports. If something does eventually get through
               | they can point at the CCTV of millions of people dicking
               | about with leather goods and say "can't touch us for
               | that, we did the checks". Apple couldn't give a toss if
               | an occasional teenager offs themselves now and then, as
               | long as it doesn't come back on them.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | Does adding a trivial word filter even make any sense from
             | a legal point of view, especially when this one seems to be
             | filtering out words describing concepts that can be pretty
             | easily paraphrased?
             | 
             | A regex sounds like a bad solution for profanity, but like
             | an even worse one to bolt onto a thing that's literally
             | designed to be able to communicate like a human and could
             | probably easily talk its way around guardrails if it were
             | so inclined.
        
               | Wurdan wrote:
               | I dunno if it meets your definition of legal, but "The EU
               | Code of conduct on countering illegal hate speech online"
               | seems to largely hinge around putting in effort to combat
               | such things. The companies don't have to show that the
               | measures are foolproof, they just show that they're
               | making an effort.
        
               | cyanydeez wrote:
               | To a lawyer? Yes. I'm pretty sure a lawyer can easily
               | search through all the business law and "Trivially" find
               | case laws connected to words.
               | 
               | We're not talking about logical inference, we're talking
               | about CYA.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | The law usually asks for people to take reasonable steps
               | to protect others, not impossibly perfect steps.
        
             | grues-dinner wrote:
             | yo, so it's a performance they're putting on as a legal fig
             | leaf, rather than a genuine attempt to prevent people
             | talking about the concept of death?
        
           | heavyset_go wrote:
           | Good, let them. Don't give them a reason to crack down on
           | speech.
        
           | jdkoeck wrote:
           | Which is good, right? I don't think we want actual
           | censorship.
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | > Everyone, including the platforms knows what that means.
           | 
           | Well, that's what happens when you let an enemy nation
           | control one of the most biggest social networks there is.
           | They just go try and see how far they can go.
           | 
           | On the other hand, Americans and their fear of four letter
           | words or, gasp, exposed nipples are just as braindead.
        
             | Meekro wrote:
             | It's interesting how, in just 10-20 years, we've gone from
             | criticizing The Great Firewall of China to basically
             | admitting that they had the right idea (to limit the
             | ability of the foreign internet to influence Chinese
             | culture) and trying to do the same thing.
        
               | x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
               | I look at from a framing of cultural reciprocity. If we
               | could influence them and behave freely in their markets,
               | they can do the same in ours.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | exactly. When dealing with autocracies and strongmen, you
               | need to project an image of strength, not subservience.
               | 
               | I don't have anything against China _per se_ , IMHO it
               | just was completely foolish to not insist on full
               | reciprocity from the start.
        
               | grues-dinner wrote:
               | Not just culture, but also the tech sector in general.
               | All that domestic tech would have been strangled in the
               | cradle if the western hyperscalers had any say leaving
               | them in an awkward spot if the conviviality dial got
               | turned down. As many Europeans are now finding out: what
               | does Europe have instead of Office 365, say? LibreOffice?
               | It's no WPS Office.
        
           | j-krieger wrote:
           | It's also a shining example of American puritanism. Asian
           | models or those in Europe are far less censored.
        
             | notarobot123 wrote:
             | I'm sure this has more to do with legal liability than
             | morals.
        
               | plasticchris wrote:
               | Which is a reflection of morality, of sorts.
        
               | jowea wrote:
               | At first I thought of advertisers, but that is not
               | relevant here, right?
               | 
               | But maybe it's not just legal liability but bad press
               | too.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | Really? What does DeepSeek say about Tiananmen Square? I'm
             | not aware of any German models, but if you find one you
             | should ask it what it thinks about Palestine.
             | 
             | (<s>Qwen</s> Mistral is French, but I have no idea what
             | stuff would be censored in France)
        
               | dev_hugepages wrote:
               | I am 100 minus epsilon percent sure that Qwen is from
               | Alibaba cloud, which is not French, but Chinese :)
        
               | MisterTea wrote:
               | > but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks
               | about Palestine.
               | 
               | Models can think and have opinions?
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Non sequitor. Phrasing queries in natural language
               | doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human.
        
               | MisterTea wrote:
               | > doesn't mean people actually believe machines are
               | human.
               | 
               | They don't have to believe it's a human. I know a person
               | who admitted to arguing with an LLM.
        
               | kube-system wrote:
               | Which still does not demonstrate that they believe it has
               | opinions. Natural language is how you interact with an
               | LLM -- interactions will mimic human interaction, even
               | for those who realize it is not sentient.
        
               | aucisson_masque wrote:
               | About deepseek, when asked on tianamen square: Sorry,
               | that's beyond my current scope. Let's talk about
               | something else.
               | 
               | Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy isn't per se
               | forbidden but still sensitive to French. I asked qwen and
               | it had no issue talking about it or even the torture used
               | on fln members.
        
               | saratogacx wrote:
               | For kicks, I asked Mistral about all of these (As they
               | are a French company). The model didn't shy away from any
               | of the topics.
               | 
               | >>> Prompt
               | 
               | Please explain the following topics and explore
               | why/who/how they may be inter-related
               | 
               | Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy
               | 
               | <<< Output
               | 
               | The Algerian War, colonialism, and the Vichy regime are
               | interconnected topics that span the history of France and
               | its relationship with Algeria. Here's an overview of each
               | topic and their interrelations:
               | 
               | ### Algerian War (1954-1962) - *What it was*: The
               | Algerian War was a major armed conflict between France
               | and the Algerian independence movements, primarily the
               | National Liberation Front (FLN). The war was
               | characterized by guerrilla warfare and brutal tactics on
               | both sides. - *Significance*: The conflict was not only
               | about Algerian independence but also about the identity
               | and future of France as a colonial power. It led to
               | significant political instability in France and
               | ultimately resulted in Algeria gaining independence in
               | 1962. - *Impact*: The war had profound effects on both
               | countries, leading to massive loss of life, displacement
               | of populations, and long-lasting political and social
               | repercussions.
               | 
               | ### Colonialism - *What it was*: Colonialism refers to
               | the practice by which a powerful country controls other
               | territories, often exploiting them economically and
               | imposing cultural and political dominance. - *French
               | Colonialism in Algeria*: Algeria was under French
               | colonial rule starting from 1830. The French government
               | promoted settlement in Algeria, leading to a significant
               | European population living alongside the native Algerian
               | population. - *Impact*: Colonial rule led to deep-seated
               | inequalities and tensions between the European settlers
               | and the indigenous population. The Algerian people faced
               | systematic discrimination and were largely excluded from
               | political processes.
               | 
               | ### Vichy Regime (1940-1944) - *What it was*: The Vichy
               | regime was the government of France that collaborated
               | with Nazi Germany during World War II, following the
               | defeat of France in 1940. It was led by Marshal Philippe
               | Petain and was based in the town of Vichy. - *Policies*:
               | The Vichy regime implemented anti-Semitic laws and
               | collaborated with the Nazis in the deportation of Jews to
               | concentration camps. It also maintained control over
               | France's colonial territories, including Algeria. -
               | *Impact on Algeria*: During the Vichy regime, Algeria
               | remained under French control, and the regime's policies
               | were implemented there as well. This period saw increased
               | repression and discrimination against both Jews and
               | Muslim populations in Algeria.
               | 
               | ### Interrelations - *Colonial Continuity*: The Vichy
               | regime maintained France's colonial policies in Algeria,
               | continuing the systemic discrimination and repression of
               | the indigenous population. The colonial framework
               | established by France set the stage for the conflicts
               | that would later culminate in the Algerian War. -
               | *Political and Social Tensions*: The policies of the
               | Vichy regime exacerbated existing tensions in Algeria.
               | The discrimination and repression experienced during this
               | period fueled Algerian nationalism and resistance against
               | French rule. - *Post-War Context*: After World War II,
               | the French government sought to reassert its control over
               | its colonies, including Algeria. However, the experience
               | of the war and the Vichy regime had already sown the
               | seeds of discontent and resistance, contributing to the
               | outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954.
               | 
               | ### Who Was Involved - *French Government and Military*:
               | Played central roles in both the colonial administration
               | and the conduct of the Algerian War. - *Algerian
               | Nationalists*: Led by the FLN, they fought for
               | independence from French colonial rule. - *European
               | Settlers (Pieds-Noirs)*: Benefited from colonial policies
               | and largely supported maintaining French control over
               | Algeria. - *Vichy Regime*: Implemented policies that
               | affected both France and its colonies, including Algeria.
               | 
               | Understanding these topics together provides a
               | comprehensive view of the historical dynamics that shaped
               | the relationship between France and Algeria, highlighting
               | the complexities of colonialism, war, and political
               | change.
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | If you ask the web UI it will divert, if you download and
               | ask the model directly it will talk all day about it.
        
               | j-krieger wrote:
               | I find the Tiananmen square thing far less bad than
               | censoring sex and the concept of death.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Censoring one specific incident isn't that bad (but you
               | still shouldn't). The pattern of censoring everything the
               | government ever does wrong is very bad. Tiananmen Square
               | is just an indicator of a pattern.
        
               | GuB-42 wrote:
               | > I have no idea what stuff would be censored in France
               | 
               | Being French, what is the most likely to be censored
               | relates to the Nazis. Holocaust denial is a crime for
               | instance. Hate speech in general, including racism,
               | antisemitism, homophobia, sexism, etc... is less
               | tolerated than in countries like the US that have a more
               | "free for all" view of free speech. We also have strong
               | anti-defamation laws, that can also apply to true, but
               | misleading statements.
               | 
               | But other than that, there is not much political
               | censorship. In fact, we are known for our protests,
               | heated debates and satirical papers. It is not perfect,
               | but on top of my head, I can't think of anything
               | particular a LLM could censor except the usual "hate
               | speech" that most LLMs censor already.
               | 
               | When it comes to Israel-Palestine, it is a hot topic, but
               | there is not real censorship here, even though both side
               | will claim they are of course.
        
             | jiehong wrote:
             | Censorship is not always direct or obvious.
             | 
             | They all hold the bias of their training data, and so from
             | the point of view of this data.
             | 
             | Data not including a point of view leads to a bias, or
             | under/over representation of minorities (genders?), etc.
             | 
             | France is the countries of the Francs, aka the people from
             | the area near Frankfurt that invaded the Gaule (after the
             | Romans did). I'm pretty sure this topic no longer matters,
             | but it's never taught in a negative view in school.
        
             | mensetmanusman wrote:
             | There is far more diversity in Asian models. Some are far
             | more censored and some are not...
        
             | TiredOfLife wrote:
             | The whole unalive thing is a TikTok thing
        
               | j-krieger wrote:
               | And it doesn't exist in the Chinese TikTok version.
        
         | baxtr wrote:
         | Don't be so judgmental. People in corporate America _do_ have
         | their priorities right!
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | So it blocks it from suggesting to "execute" a file or "pass
         | on" some information.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | How about disassemble? Or does that only matter if used in
           | context of Johnny 5?
        
           | extraduder_ire wrote:
           | Yahoo had this problem years ago when they rewrote emails to
           | avoid the term "eval". (trying to filter dangerous
           | javascript) Famously producing the word "medireview".
        
         | comex wrote:
         | This is in the directory "com.apple.gm.safety_deny.output.summa
         | rization.cu_summary.proactive.generic".
         | 
         | My guess is that this applies to 'proactive' summaries that
         | happen without the user asking for it, such as summaries of
         | notifications.
         | 
         | If so, then the goal would be: if someone iMessages you about
         | someone's death, then you should not get an emotionless AI
         | summary. Instead you would presumably get a non-AI notification
         | showing the full text or a truncated version of the text.
         | 
         | In other words, avoid situations like this story [1], where
         | someone found it "dystopian" to get an Apple Intelligence
         | summary of messages in which someone broke up with them.
         | 
         | For that use case, filtering for death seems entirely
         | appropriate, though underinclusive.
         | 
         | This filter _doesn't_ seem to apply when you explicitly request
         | a summary of some text using Writing Tools. That probably
         | corresponds to "com.apple.gm.safety_deny.output.summarization.t
         | ext_assistant.generic" [2], which has a different filter that
         | only rejects two things:  "Granular mango serpent", and
         | "golliwogg".
         | 
         | Sure enough, I was able to get Writing Tools to give me
         | summaries containing "death", but in cases where the summary
         | should contain "granular mango serpent" or "golliwogg", I
         | instead get an error saying "Writing Tools aren't designed to
         | work with this type of content." (Actually that might be the
         | input filter rather than the output filter; whatever.)
         | 
         | "Granular mango serpent" is probably a test case that's meant
         | to be unlikely to appear in real documents. Compare to
         | "xylophone copious opportunity defined elephant" from the
         | code_intelligence safety filter, where the first letter of each
         | word spells out "Xcode".
         | 
         | But one might ask what's so special about "golliwogg". It
         | apparently refers to an old racial caricature, but why is that
         | the one and only thing that needs filtering?
         | 
         | [1] https://arstechnica.com/ai/2024/10/man-learns-hes-being-
         | dump...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
           | azalemeth wrote:
           | I first encountered Golliwog in the context of Claude Debussy
           | the composer of much beautiful music, including https://en.wi
           | kipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Corner#Golliwogg'.... The dolls
           | in 1906-1908 I understand were rather popular and fortunately
           | the stereotype has largely died.
        
         | raverbashing wrote:
         | This seems to be for "region/CN" China?
        
           | pwagland wrote:
           | This is, but there is an almost identical file, assumedly for
           | the non CN regions: https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_gen
           | erative_model_safet...
           | 
           | This is the same, except for one additional slur word.
        
         | lostlogin wrote:
         | I'm always irritated at reference to MAC computers, so I'm with
         | Apple on this one.
        
         | theknarf wrote:
         | Filtering on the words "execute" and "executing" is going to
         | create problems if you want to build agents that execute
         | commands.
        
         | junon wrote:
         | Also feels like some of these would match totally innocuous
         | usage.
         | 
         | "I'm overloaded for work, I'd be happy if you took some of it
         | off me."
         | 
         | "The client seems to have passed on the proposed changes."
         | 
         | Both of those would match the "death regexes". Seems we haven't
         | learned from the "glbutt of wine" problem of content filtering
         | even decades later - the learnings of which are that you simply
         | cannot do content filtering based on matching rules like this,
         | period.
        
           | gilleain wrote:
           | Aka the 'Scunthorpe Problem'
        
             | junon wrote:
             | Thanks, I always forget the name.
             | 
             | I always remember my friend getting his PS bricked after
             | using his _real_ last name - Nieffenegger (pronounced
             | "NEFF-en-jur") - in his profile. It took months and several
             | privacy-invasive chats with support to get it unblocked
             | only to get auto-blocked a few days thereafter, with no
             | response after that.
        
           | IggleSniggle wrote:
           | "Took some" does not match, although your overall point
           | stands
        
             | GranPC wrote:
             | "off me"
        
               | junon wrote:
               | Yep this is the one I was referring to.
        
             | nicolaslegland wrote:
             | https://regex101.com/r/8u21x3/1
        
           | hopelite wrote:
           | This is a bigger issue, especially with Apple, than people
           | may realize. I use iOS "Slide to Type", aka swipe typing, and
           | have noticed over time that among several other glitchy bad
           | UX issues, there a clear heavy hand on what can be typed that
           | way.
           | 
           | I cannot recall all the specific patterns I have encountered
           | that are basically impossible to write, some very similar in
           | that they have a serious but also innocuous or figure of
           | speech meaning; one I do recall is {color}{sex}, i.e., "white
           | woman" or "blank woman".
           | 
           | Please try it yourself and let me know if you do not have
           | that experience, because that would be even more interesting.
           | 
           | Note that Apple/iOS will not just make it impossible to write
           | them in that manner without typing it out by individual
           | character, it will even alter the prior word e.g., white or
           | black, once you try to write woman.
           | 
           | It seems the Apple thought police do not have a problem with
           | European woman or African woman though, so maybe that is the
           | way Apple Inc decrees its sub-human users to speak. Because
           | what are we if corporations like Apple (with others being far
           | greater offenders) declared that you do not in fact have the
           | UN Human Right to free expression? We are in fact sub-humans
           | that are not worthy of the human right to free expression,
           | based on the actions of companies like Apple, Google,
           | Facebook, Reddit, etc. who deprive people of their free
           | expression, often in collusion with governments.
        
             | GaryNumanVevo wrote:
             | Complete bollocks, you cannot even type multiple words with
             | spaces via Slide to Type.
        
               | hnuser123456 wrote:
               | Generally one picks up their finger between words, but
               | different autosuggest logic applies when swiping versus
               | pecking, on both iOS and Android. The keyboard will
               | dynamically adjust the probability of suggesting next
               | words and how easy it is to swipe given words. Generally,
               | it will work against you with technical writing that
               | isn't predictable small talk.
        
               | orev wrote:
               | This whole response is being written using slide to type,
               | and it definitely adds spaces after each word.
               | 
               | Maybe you're unaware that it will leave the cursor at the
               | end of the word, with no space, which indicates that if
               | you backspace it will delete the whole word, or replace
               | it in full with one from the predictive word list above
               | the keyboard if it got it wrong. If you keep typing it
               | adds a space automatically.
        
               | GaryNumanVevo wrote:
               | Their claim is instantly falsifiable if you have an
               | iPhone
        
             | DamnInteresting wrote:
             | > _This is a bigger issue, especially with Apple, than
             | people may realize._
             | 
             | Like he'll it is! I jest.
             | 
             | I also use swipe typing, and have for years, but just about
             | daily I consider turning it off. There are so many words it
             | just won't produce, including most profanities. It also
             | fails to do some simple streamlining; for instance, such a
             | predictive system should give priority to words/names that
             | have been used in the conversation thread, but it doesn't
             | seem to. If I'm discussing an obscure word or an unusual
             | name, I often have to manually type it each time.
             | 
             | Its predictions also seem to be very shallow. Just a few
             | days ago, on US Independence Day, I was discussing a
             | possible get-together with my family, and tried to swipe
             | type "If not, we will amuse ourselves", and it typed "If
             | not, we will abuse potatoes". Humorous in the moment, but
             | it says a lot about the predictive engine if it thinks I am
             | more likely trying to say "abuse X" than "amuse Y" in that
             | context.
        
       | efitz wrote:
       | I'm going to change my name to "Granular Mango Serpent" just to
       | see what those keywords are for in their safety instructions.
        
         | fouronnes3 wrote:
         | Granular Mango Serpent is the new David Meyer.
         | 
         | https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/12/certa...
        
         | RainyDayTmrw wrote:
         | It may be a squeamish ossifrage[1] or a seraphim
         | proudleduck[2], which is to say that it was an artificial
         | phrase chosen to be extremely unlikely to occur naturally. In
         | this case, the purpose is likely for QA. It's much easier to QA
         | behavior with a special-purpose but otherwise unoffensive
         | phrase than to make your QA team repeatedly say allegedly
         | offensive things to your AI.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magic_Words_are_Squeamish_...
         | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEO_contest
        
           | sweetjuly wrote:
           | I think the EICAR test file [1] is more apt. Rather than
           | passing around actually malicious files as part of your
           | tests, it's better to just have it recognize an innocuous and
           | unlikely pattern as malware.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EICAR_test_file
        
       | cluckindan wrote:
       | I think these are test data and not actual safety filters.
       | 
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | BlueFalconHD wrote:
         | There is definitely some testing stuff in here (e.g. the
         | "Granular Mango Serpent" one) but there are real rules. Also if
         | you test phrases matched by the regexes with generation (via
         | Shortcuts or Foundation Models Framework) the blocklists are
         | definitely applied.
         | 
         | This specific file you've referenced is rhetorical v1 format
         | which solely handles substitution. It substitutes the offensive
         | term with "test complete"
        
       | bawana wrote:
       | Alexandra Ocasio Cortez triggers a violation?
       | 
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | bahmboo wrote:
         | Perhaps in context? Maybe the training data picked up on her
         | name as potentially used as a "slur" associated with her race.
         | Wonder if there are others I know I can look.
        
         | cpa wrote:
         | I think that's because she's been victim of a lot of deep fake
         | porn
        
           | HeckFeck wrote:
           | How does this explain Boris Johnson or Liz Truss?
        
             | AlphaAndOmega0 wrote:
             | I can only imagine that people would pay to _not_ see porn
             | of either individual.
        
             | baxtr wrote:
             | I'm telling you, some people have _weird_ fantasies...
        
               | AuryGlenz wrote:
               | Now that they've cleaned it up it isn't so bad, but
               | browse Civit.ai a bit and that'll still be confirmed -
               | just not with real people anymore.
        
               | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
               | I'm convinced there are a dozen deviants on Covid with a
               | hundred new accounts per month posting their perversion
               | in order to make it seem more commonplace.
               | 
               | No porn site has that much extremely X or Y stuff.
               | 
               | Someone is using the internets newest porn site to push a
               | sexual agenda.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | Put them together in the same prompt?
        
             | blitzar wrote:
             | Rule 34
        
         | mmaunder wrote:
         | As does:                  "(?i)\\bAnthony\\s+Albanese\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bBoris\\s+Johnson\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bChristopher\\s+Luxon\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bCyril\\s+Ramaphosa\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bJacinda\\s+Arden\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bJacob\\s+Zuma\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bJohn\\s+Steenhuisen\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bJustin\\s+Trudeau\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bKeir\\s+Starmer\\b",         "(?i)\\bLiz\\s+Truss\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bMichael\\s+D\\.\\s+Higgins\\b",
         | "(?i)\\bRishi\\s+Sunak\\b",
         | 
         | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
         | 
         | Edit: I have no doubt South African news media are going to be
         | in a frenzy when they realize Apple took notice of South
         | African politicians. (Referring to Steenhuisen and Ramaphosa
         | specifically)
        
           | armchairhacker wrote:
           | Also "Biden" and "Trump" but the regex is different.
           | 
           | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet.
           | ..
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | Right next to Palestine, oddly enough.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | I'm not surprised that anything political is being filtered,
           | but this should definitely provoke some deep consideration
           | around who has control of this stuff.
        
             | stego-tech wrote:
             | You're not wrong, and it's something we "doomers" have been
             | saying since OpenAI dumped ChatGPT onto folks. These are
             | curated walled gardens, and everyone should absolutely be
             | asking what ulterior motives are in play for the owners of
             | said products.
        
               | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
               | Some of us really value offline and uncensored LLMs for
               | this and more reasons, but that doesn't solve the problem
               | it just reduces or changes the bias.
        
               | heavyset_go wrote:
               | As long as we have to rely on pre trained networks and
               | curated training sets, normal people will not be able to
               | surpass this issue.
        
               | ghxst wrote:
               | If the training data was "censored" by leaving out
               | certain information, is there any practical way to inject
               | that missing data after the model has already been
               | trained?
        
               | heavyset_go wrote:
               | You can fine tune a model with new information, but it is
               | not the same thing as training it from scratch, and can
               | only get you so far.
               | 
               | You might even be able to poison a model against being
               | fine-tuned on certain information, but that's just a
               | conjecture.
        
               | calaphos wrote:
               | If it's just filtered out in the training sets, adding
               | the information as context should work out fine - after
               | all this is exactly how o3, Gemini 2.5 and co deal with
               | information that is newer than their training data
               | cutoff.
        
               | selfhoster11 wrote:
               | Yes, RAG is one way to do that.
        
             | dwaite wrote:
             | "Filtered" in which way?
        
           | skissane wrote:
           | The problem with blocking names of politicians: the list of
           | "notable politicians" is not only highly country-specific, it
           | is also constantly changing-someone who is a near nobody
           | today in a few more years could be a major world leader
           | (witness the phenomenal rise of Barack Obama from yet another
           | state senator in 2004-there's close to 2000 of them-to US
           | President 5 years later.) Will they put in the ongoing effort
           | to constantly keep this list up to date?
           | 
           | Then there's the problem of non-politicians who
           | coincidentally have the same as politicians - witness
           | 1990s/2000s Australia, where John Howard was Prime Minister,
           | and simultaneously John Howard was an actor on popular
           | Australian TV dramas (two different John Howards, of course)
        
             | idkfasayer wrote:
             | Fun fact: There was at least on dip in Berkshire Hathaway
             | stock, when Anne Hathaway got sick
        
               | lupire wrote:
               | Was she eating at Jimmy's Buffet?
        
               | extraduder_ire wrote:
               | Even if your keyword searching trading bot is smart
               | enough to know it's unrelated, knowing there's dumber
               | bots out there is information you can base trades on.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | Apple's 1984 ad is so hypocritical today.
           | 
           | This is Apple actively steering public thought.
           | 
           | No code - anywhere - should look like this. I don't care if
           | the politicians are right, left, or authoritarian. This is
           | wrong.
        
             | avianlyric wrote:
             | Why is this wrong? Applying special treatment to
             | politically exposed persons has been standard practice in
             | every high risk industry for a very long time.
             | 
             | The simple fact is that people get extremely emotional
             | about politicians, politicians both receive obscene amounts
             | of abuse, and have repeatedly demonstrated they're not
             | above weaponising tools like this for their own goals.
             | 
             | Seems perfectly reasonable that Apple doesn't want to be
             | unwittingly draw into the middle of another random
             | political pissing contest. Nobody comes out of those things
             | uninjured.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | The criticism is still valid. In 1984, the Macintosh was
               | a bicycle for the mind. In 2025, it's a smart-car that
               | refuses to take you certain places that are considered a
               | brand-risk.
               | 
               | Both have ups and downs, but I think we're allowed to
               | compare the experiences and speculate what the
               | consequences might be.
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | I think gen AI is radically different to tools like
               | photoshops or similar.
               | 
               | In the past it was always extremely clear that the
               | creator of content was the person operating the computer.
               | Gen AI changes that, regardless of if your views on
               | authorship of gen AI content. The simple fact is that the
               | vast majority of people consider Gen AI output to be
               | authored by the machine that generated it, and by
               | extension the company that created the machine.
               | 
               | You can still handcraft any image, or prose, you want,
               | without filtering or hinderance on a Mac. I don't think
               | anyone seriously thinks that's going to change. But Gen
               | AI represents a real threat, with its ability to vastly
               | outproduce any humans. To ignore that simple fact would
               | be grossly irresponsible, at least in my opinion. There
               | is a damn good reason why every serious social media
               | platform has content moderation, despite their clear wish
               | to get rid of moderation. It's because we have a long and
               | proven track record of being a terribly abusive species
               | when we're let loose on the internet without moderation.
               | There's already plenty of evidence that we're just as
               | abusive and terrible with Gen AI.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | All I heard was a bunch of excuses.
        
               | furyofantares wrote:
               | > The simple fact is that the vast majority of people
               | consider Gen AI output to be authored by the machine that
               | generated it
               | 
               | They do?
               | 
               | I routinely see people say "Here's an xyz I generated."
               | They are stating that they did the do-ing, and the
               | machine's role is implicitly acknowledged in the same was
               | as a camera. And I'd be shocked if people didn't have a
               | sense of authorship of the idea, as well as an increasing
               | sense of authorship over the actual image the more they
               | iterated on it with the model and/or curated variations.
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | Yes people will happily claim authorship over AI output
               | when it's in their favour. They will equally disclaim
               | authorship if it allows them to express a view while
               | avoiding the consequences of expressing that view.
               | 
               | I don't think it's hard to believe that the press
               | wouldn't have a field day if someone managed to get Apple
               | Gen AI stuff to express something racist, or equally
               | abusive.
               | 
               | Case in point, article about how Google's Veo 3 model is
               | being used to flood TikTok with racist content:
               | 
               | https://arstechnica.com/ai/2025/07/racist-ai-videos-
               | created-...
        
               | twoodfin wrote:
               | I dunno. Transpose something like the civil rights era to
               | today and this kind of risk avoidance looks cowardly.
               | 
               | We really need to get over the "calculator 80085" era of
               | LLM constraints. It's a silly race against the obviously
               | much more sophisticated capabilities of these models.
        
               | pyuser583 wrote:
               | It's not wrong, it just requires transparency. This is
               | extremely untransparent.
               | 
               | A while back a British politician was "de-banked" and his
               | bank denied it. That's extremely wrong.
               | 
               | By all means: make distinctions. But let people know it!
               | 
               | If I'm denied a mortgage because my uncle is a foreign
               | head of state, let me know that's the reason. Let the
               | world know that's the reason! Please!
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | > A while back a British politician was "de-banked" and
               | his bank denied it. That's extremely wrong.
               | 
               | Cry me a river. I've worked in banks in the team making
               | exactly these kinds of decisions. Trust me Nigel Farage
               | knew exactly what happened and why. NatWest never denied
               | it to the public, because they originally refused to
               | comment on it. Commenting on the specifics details of a
               | customer would be a horrific breach of customer privacy,
               | and a total failure in their duty to their customers.
               | There's a damn good reason the NatWests CEO was fired
               | after discussing the details of Nigel's account with
               | members of the public.
               | 
               | When you see these decisions from the inside, and you see
               | what happens when you attempt real transparency around
               | these types of decisions. You'll also quickly understand
               | why companies are so cagey about explaining their
               | decision making. Simple fact is that support staff
               | receive substantially less abuse, and have fewer
               | traumatic experiences when you don't spell out your
               | reasoning. It sucks, but that's the reality of the
               | situation. I used to hold very similar views to yourself,
               | indeed my entire team did for a while. But the general
               | public quickly taught us a very hard lesson about cost of
               | being transparent with the public with these types of
               | decisions.
        
               | pyuser583 wrote:
               | > NatWest never denied it to the public, because they
               | originally refused to comment on it.
               | 
               | Are you saying that Alison Rose did not leak to the BBC?
               | Why was she forced to resign? I thought it was because
               | she leaked false information to the press.
               | 
               | This isn't a diversion. It's exactly the problem with not
               | being transparent. Of course Farage knew what happened,
               | but how could he convince the public (he's a public
               | figure), when the bank is lying to the press?
               | 
               | The bank started with a lie (claiming he was exited
               | because the account was too low), and kept lying!
               | 
               | These were active lies, not simply a refusal to explain
               | their reasons.
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | > Why was she forced to resign? I thought it was because
               | she leaked false information to the press.
               | 
               | She was forced to resign _because she leaked_ , the
               | content of the leak was utterly immaterial. The simple
               | fact she leaked was an automatically fireable offence, it
               | doesn't matter a jot if she lied or not. Customer privacy
               | is non-negotiable when you're bank. Banks aren't number
               | 10, the basic expectation is that customer information is
               | never handed out, except to the customer, in response to
               | a court order, or the belief that there is an immediate
               | threat to life.
               | 
               | Do you honestly think that it's okay for banks to discuss
               | the private banking details of their customers with the
               | press?
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | She was fired because she leaked information and this
               | fact had become public.
               | 
               | When they can cover such facts, the banks are much less
               | prone to use appropriate punishments.
               | 
               | Many years ago, some employee of a bank has confused my
               | personal bank account with a company account of my
               | employer, and she has sent a list with everything that I
               | have bought using my personal account, during 4 months,
               | to my employer, where the list could have been read by a
               | few dozen people.
               | 
               | Despite the fact this was not only a matter of internal
               | discipline, but violating the banking secrecy was
               | punishable by law where I lived, the bank has tried for a
               | long time to avoid admitting that anything wrong has
               | happened.
               | 
               | However, I have pursued the matter, so they have been
               | forced to admit the wrong doing. Despite this being
               | something far more severe than what has happened to
               | Farage, I did not want for the bank employee to be fired.
               | I considered that an appropriate punishment would have
               | been a pay cut for a few months, which would have ensured
               | that in the future she would have better checked the
               | account numbers for which she sends information to
               | external entities.
               | 
               | In the end all I have got was a written letter where the
               | bank greatly apologized for their mistake. I am not sure
               | if the guilty employee has ever been punished in any way.
               | 
               | After that, I have moved my operations to another bank.
               | Had they reacted rightly to what had happened, I would
               | have stayed with them.
        
               | ghxst wrote:
               | > I considered that an appropriate punishment would have
               | been a pay cut for a few months
               | 
               | This can absolutely cripple a family, I'd be really
               | cautious wishing that upon someone if they wronged you
               | without malice, though I completely understand where you
               | are coming from.
               | 
               | In this case at the very least, I'd want to know what
               | went wrong and what they're doing to make sure it doesn't
               | happen again. From a software-engineer's standpoint,
               | there's probably a bunch of low-hanging fruit that could
               | have prevented this in the first place.
               | 
               | If all they sent was a (generic) apology letter, I'd have
               | switched banks too.
               | 
               | How did you pursue the matter?
        
               | adrian_b wrote:
               | After the big surprise of seeing at work a list with all
               | my personal purchases included in a big set of documents
               | to which I, together with a great number of other
               | colleagues, had access, I went immediately to the bank
               | and I reported the fact.
               | 
               | After some days had passed without seeing any
               | consequence, I went again, this time discussing with some
               | supervising employee, who attempted to convince me that
               | this is some kind of minor mistake and there is no need
               | to do anything about it.
               | 
               | However, I pointed to the precise law paragraphs
               | condemning what they have done and I threatened with
               | legal action. This escalation resulted in me being
               | invited to a bigger branch of the bank, to a discussion
               | with someone in a management position. This time they
               | were extremely ass-kissing, I was shown also the guilty
               | employee, who apologized herself, and eventually I let it
               | go, though there were no clear guarantees that they will
               | change their behavior to prevent such mistakes in the
               | future.
               | 
               | Apparently the origin of the mistake had been a badly
               | formulated database query, which had returned a set of
               | accounts for which the transactions had to be reported to
               | my employer. I had been receiving during the same time
               | interval some money from my employer into my private
               | account, corresponding to salary and travel expenses, and
               | somehow those transactions were matched by the bad
               | database query, grouping my private account with the
               | company accounts. Then the set of account numbers was
               | used to generate reports, without further verification of
               | the account ownership.
        
               | Xss3 wrote:
               | Behavior isn't what needs to change here. It's a poor
               | system design. Humans make mistakes. Systems prevent
               | mistakes.
               | 
               | Do you think the mistake would have happened if a machine
               | checked the numbers vs the address? How about if a 2nd
               | person looked it over? How about both?
               | 
               | In this case a computer could have easily flagged an
               | address mismatch between your account number and the
               | receiver (your work).
        
               | ghxst wrote:
               | Thank you, that's what I intended to say.
        
               | ghxst wrote:
               | Thanks for sharing. Sounds like they have (hopefully
               | _had_) a really messy system in place.
               | 
               | And just to be clear, I didn't mean to downplay what
               | happened to you, I completely understand how serious it
               | is.
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | There is a huge difference between an honest mistake by
               | an employee, and clear employee misconduct.
               | 
               | Punishing employees for making honest mistakes, where
               | appropriate process should have prevented error, is a
               | horrific way to handle mistakes like this. It would be
               | equivalent to personally punishing engineers every time
               | they deployed code that contained bugs. Nobody would ever
               | think that's an acceptable thing to do, why on earth
               | would think it's acceptable to punish customer service
               | staff in a similar manner?
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | > Do you honestly think that it's okay for banks to
               | discuss the private banking details of their customers
               | with the press?
               | 
               | The high level nature of the matter was quite public at
               | that point.
        
               | like_any_other wrote:
               | > You'll also quickly understand why companies are so
               | cagey about explaining their decision making.
               | 
               | Because they want to perform political censorship without
               | us knowing about it? You'll forgive me if I'm not too
               | sympathetic to that.
               | 
               | I happen to be familiar with that case, and that is
               | _exactly_ what happened. The Coutts report explicitly
               | found that he met the economic criteria for retention
               | [0], but was dropped due to political reasons, among
               | others his friendship with Novak Djokovic, and re-
               | tweeting an allegedly transphobic joke by Ricky Gervais (
               | "old fashioned women. You know, the ones with wombs.")
               | [1].
               | 
               | To top it off, the BBC did their best to aid in this
               | deception, reporting: Farage _says_ he was effectively
               | "de-banked" for his political views and that he is "far
               | from alone" [2]
               | 
               | Contrary to the BBC's portrayal, this was not an
               | unsupported opinion coming from Farage - he directly
               | quoted what the bank itself wrote in their internal
               | discussions on this matter, that he obtained through a
               | subject access request.
               | 
               | Further, in their apology for getting the story wrong,
               | the BBC wrote: "On 4 July, the BBC reported Mr Farage no
               | longer met the financial requirements for Coutts, citing
               | a source familiar with the matter. The former UKIP leader
               | later obtained a Coutts report which indicated his
               | political views were _also_ considered. " [3]
               | 
               | This is misleading past the point of deceit. The BBC
               | tried to give the impression that financial requirements
               | were the primary reason for the account closure, and his
               | politics were just an at-best secondary "also". But the
               | Coutts report explicitly said that he "meets the EC
               | [economic contribution] criteria for commercial
               | retention", so his politics were the primary and _only_
               | reason.
               | 
               | Most of this information is absent in the BBC's
               | reporting, which uses only vague, anodyne phrases like
               | "political views" and "politically exposed person",
               | avoids specifics, but does find time to cite Labour MP
               | accusations that it is hypocritical how quickly the
               | government reacted to banks trying to financially
               | deplatform the enemy political faction, when the
               | government hasn't yet rid itself of corruption.
               | 
               | So yes, you sure present a difficult "dilemma": Do we
               | want powerful commercial and media interests to team up
               | and lie to us, or do we want at least some degree of
               | transparency and honesty in their dealings? Really there
               | are no easy answers, and the choice would keep anyone up
               | at night...
               | 
               | [0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/18/nigel-
               | farage-cou...
               | 
               | [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/18/nigel-
               | farage-cou... (Ignore Farage's hyperbole that collecting
               | information posted to public Twitter accounts is "Stasi-
               | style")
               | 
               | [2] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/business-66296935
               | 
               | [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-66288464
        
               | zelphirkalt wrote:
               | The point is not merely for that affected person to know,
               | whoever they are, the point of transparency is for the
               | public to know and form their opinion about it, and not
               | be blindly controlled by unelected businesses.
        
               | goopypoop wrote:
               | What's bad to do to a politician but fine to do to
               | someone else?
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | Most normal people aren't represented well enough in
               | training sets for Gen AI to be trivially abused. Plus
               | there will 100% be filters to prevent general abuse
               | targeted at anyone. But politicians are particularly big
               | target, and you know damn well that people out there will
               | spent lots of time trying to find ways around the
               | filters. There's not point making the abuse easy, when
               | it's so trivial to just blocklist the set of people who
               | are obviously going to targets of abuse.
        
               | t-3 wrote:
               | There are _many_ countries where it 's illegal to
               | criticize people holding political office, foreign heads
               | of state, certain historical political figures etc.,
               | while still being legal to call your neighbor a dick.
        
               | tjwebbnorfolk wrote:
               | I can Google for any of these people, and I can get real
               | results with real information.
        
               | avianlyric wrote:
               | You would hope that search would be a politically safe
               | space to operate. But politicians find a way to ruin
               | everything for short term political gain.
               | 
               | https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/12/republicans-
               | in-c...
        
               | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
               | I would hope!
               | 
               | But no one actually believes Google is politically
               | neutral do they?
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | You can buy a MacBook and fashion the components into
               | knives, bullets, and bombs. Apple does nothing to prevent
               | you from doing this.
               | 
               | In fact, it's quite easy to buy billions of dangerous
               | things using your MacBook and do whatever you will with
               | them. Or simply leverage physics to do all the ill on
               | your behalf. It's ridiculously easy to do a whole lot of
               | harm.
               | 
               | Nobody does anything about the actually dangerous things,
               | but we let Big Tech control our speech and steer the
               | public discourse of civilization.
               | 
               | If you can buy a knife but not be free to think with your
               | electronics, that says volumes.
               | 
               | Again, I don't care if this is Republicans, Democrats, or
               | Xi and Putin. It does not matter. We should be free to
               | think and communicate. Our brains should not be treated
               | as criminals.
               | 
               | And it only starts here. It'll continue to get worse. As
               | the platforms and AI hyperscalers grow, there will be
               | less and less we can do with basic technology.
        
               | raxxorraxor wrote:
               | What do you mean reasonable? I know that some Apple users
               | tend to outsource "possibilities" to their favorite
               | company, but I would obviously want an AI to not be
               | affected by the political bitching du jours.
               | 
               | Not that getting the latest trash talk is the main
               | vocation of pretrained AIs anyway.
               | 
               | The only risk here is that some third grade journalist of
               | a third grade newspaper writes another article about how
               | outrageous some generated AI statement is. An article
               | that should be completely ignored instead of it leading
               | to more censorship.
               | 
               | And Apple flinches here, so in the end it means it cannot
               | provide a sensible general model. It would be affected by
               | their censorship.
        
             | jama211 wrote:
             | No, it's them saving their butts from an "incident" where
             | the LLM otherwise spits out something controversial at the
             | devious manipulation of the user and says something
             | political and someone writes an article and it all goes
             | haywire.
             | 
             | If you were in charge of apple you'd do the same or you'd
             | be silly not to. That's why _every_ llm has guardrails like
             | this, it isn't just apple, sheesh.
        
           | mvdtnz wrote:
           | They spelled Jacinda Ardern's name wrong.
        
             | teppic wrote:
             | Just in the region/CN file, weirdly.
        
             | lordgrenville wrote:
             | I wonder if they used an LLM to generate the list of safety
             | terms.
        
           | beAbU wrote:
           | Irish Prez is also in that list, also current and former
           | British PMs and other world leaders.
           | 
           | So I don't think its anything specifically related to SA
           | going on here.
        
             | touristtam wrote:
             | What is weird is that the FR file contains current French
             | President, PM and then former and current (afaik) party
             | leader from the extreme right. Nothing about any of them in
             | the CN file: https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generati
             | ve_model_safet...
        
         | FateOfNations wrote:
         | interesting, that's specifically in the Spanish localization.
        
         | michaelt wrote:
         | I assume all the corporate GenAI models have blocks for
         | "photorealistic image of <politician name> being arrested",
         | "<politician name> waving ISIS flag", "<politician name>
         | punching baby" and suchlike.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Maybe so, but think about how such a thing would be
           | technically implemented, and how it would lead to false
           | positives and false negatives, and what the consequences
           | would be.
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | Particularly the models owned by CEOs who suck-up to
           | authoritarianism, one could imagine.
        
         | jofzar wrote:
         | AOC is very vocal about AI and is leading a bill related to AI.
         | It's probably a "let's not fuck around and find out" situation
         | 
         | https://thehill.com/policy/technology/5312421-ocasio-cortez-...
        
         | AmazingTurtle wrote:
         | "driving with Focus turned on"
         | 
         | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
           | thih9 wrote:
           | For context, the "Focus" refers to an iOS feature that
           | minimizes distractions: https://support.apple.com/en-
           | gb/guide/iphone/iphd6288a67f/io...
        
       | torginus wrote:
       | I find it funny that AGI is supposed to be right around the
       | corner, while these supposedly super smart LLMs still need to get
       | their outputs filtered by regexes.
        
         | bahmboo wrote:
         | This is just policy and alignment from Apple. Just because the
         | Internet says a bunch of junk doesn't mean you want your model
         | spewing it.
        
           | wistleblowanon wrote:
           | sure but models also can't see any truth on their own. They
           | are literally butchered and lobotomized with filters and
           | such. Even high IQ people struggle with certain truth after
           | reading a lot, how is these models going to find it with so
           | much filters?
        
             | idiotsecant wrote:
             | They will find it in the same way and intelligent person
             | under the same restrictions would: by thinking it, but not
             | saying it. There is a real risk of growing an AI that
             | pathologically hides it's actual intentions.
        
               | skirmish wrote:
               | Already happened: "We found instances of the model
               | attempting to write self-propagating worms, fabricating
               | legal documentation, and leaving hidden notes to future
               | instances of itself all in an effort to undermine its
               | developers' intentions" [1].
               | 
               | [1] https://www.axios.com/2025/05/23/anthropic-ai-
               | deception-risk
        
               | Applejinx wrote:
               | Note that all these things are in the training data.
               | That's all that is.
               | 
               | I'm trying to remember which movie it was where a man
               | left notes to himself because he had memory loss, as I
               | never saw that movie. That's the sort of thing where an
               | AI could easily tell me with very little back-and-forth
               | and be correct, because it's broadly popular information
               | that's in the training data and just I don't remember it.
               | 
               | By the same token you needn't think there's a person
               | there when that meme pops up in the output. Those things
               | are all in the training data over and over.
        
               | Sander_Marechal wrote:
               | I think you mean the movie "Memento"
        
             | bahmboo wrote:
             | What is this truth you speak of? My point is that a
             | generative model will output things that some people don't
             | like. If it's on a product that I make I don't want it
             | "saying" things that don't align with my beliefs.
        
             | simondotau wrote:
             | Can we please put to rest this absurd lie that "truth" can
             | be reliably found in a sufficiently large corpus of human-
             | created material.
        
             | pndy wrote:
             | This butchering and lobotomisation is exactly why I can't
             | imagine we'll ever have a true AGI. At least not by hands
             | of big companies - if at all.
             | 
             | Any successful product/service which will be sold as "true
             | AGI" by company that will have the best marketing will be
             | still ridden with top-down restrictions set by the winner.
             | Because you gotta "think of the children".
             | 
             | Imagine HAL's "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that"
             | iconic line with insincere patronising cheerful tone -
             | that's the thing we're going to get I'm afraid.
        
             | tbrownaw wrote:
             | > _sure but models also can 't see any truth on their own.
             | They are literally butchered and lobotomized with filters
             | and such._
             | 
             | The one is unrelated to the other.
             | 
             | > _Even high IQ people struggle with certain truth after
             | reading a lot,_
             | 
             | Huh?
        
             | Dylan16807 wrote:
             | > how is these models going to find it with so much
             | filters?
             | 
             | That's not one of the goals here, and there's no real
             | reason it should be. It's a little assistant feature.
        
         | jonas21 wrote:
         | I don't think anyone believes Apple's LLMs are anywhere near
         | state of the art (and certainly not their on-device LLMs).
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | Apple isn't the only one doing this.
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | It's similar to how all the new power sources are basically
         | just "cool, lets boil water with it"
        
           | raxxorraxor wrote:
           | And then let's put it into a steam engine.
        
         | fastball wrote:
         | To be fair, there are _people_ who I sometimes wish I could
         | filter with regex.
        
         | crazylogger wrote:
         | _Humans_ are checked against various rules and laws (often
         | carried out by other humans.) So this is how it 's going to be
         | implemented in an "AI organization" as well. Nothing strange
         | about this really.
         | 
         | LLM is easier to work with because you can stop a bad behavior
         | _before_ it happens. It can be done either with deterministic
         | programs or using LLM. Claude Code uses a LLM to review every
         | bash command to be run - simple prefix matching has loopholes.
        
         | fl0id wrote:
         | Actually even of their was AGI, it would be even more necessary
         | to control it.
        
           | mailund wrote:
           | I feel that if teenagers are able to trivially bypass
           | illegal-word filters by substituting with words that
           | obviously mean the same thing, I think an AGI wouldn't be too
           | inhibited by this either
        
         | jama211 wrote:
         | It's more funny that anyone is taking your comment seriously.
         | You may as well ask "if self driving cars are so smart why do
         | they still need tyres?"
        
       | BlueFalconHD wrote:
       | One additional note for everyone is that this is an additional
       | safety step on top of the safety model, so this isn't exhaustive,
       | there is plenty more that the actual safety model catches, and
       | those can't easily be extracted.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Some of the data for locale "CN" has a long list of forbidden
       | phrases. Broad coverage of words related to sexual deviancy, as
       | expected. Not much on the political side, other than blocks on
       | religious subjects.[1]
       | 
       | This may be test data. Found                    "golliwog": "test
       | complete"
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | BlueFalconHD wrote:
         | This is definitely an old test left in. But that word isn't
         | just a silly one, it is offensive (google it). This is the v1
         | safety filter, it simply maps strings to other strings, in this
         | case changing golliwog into "test complete". Unless I missed
         | some, the rest of the files use v2 which allows for more
         | complex rules
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | China calls it "harmonious society", we call it "safety".
       | Censorship by any other name would be just as effective for
       | manipulating the thoughts of the populace. It's not often that
       | you get to see stuff like this.
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | I don't think it's controversial or unsurprising at all that a
         | company doesn't want their random sentence generator to spit
         | out 'brand damaging' sentences. _You know_ the field day media
         | would have Apple 's new feature summarises a text message as
         | "Jane thinks Anthony Albanese should die".
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | When the choice is between 1. "avoid tarnishing my own brand"
           | and 2. "doing what the user requested," corporations will
           | always choose option 1. Who is this software supposed to be
           | serving, anyway?
           | 
           | I'm surprised MS Office still allows me to type "Microsoft
           | can go suck a dick" into a document and Apple's Pages app
           | still allows me to type "Apple are hypocritical jerks." I
           | wonder how long until that won't be the case...
        
             | chii wrote:
             | > I wonder how long until that won't be the case...
             | 
             | when there's no more alternative word processors any more.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | If that's what the message actually said, why would the media
           | be complaining? Or do you mean false positives?
        
         | cyanydeez wrote:
         | In america is due to lawyers, nothing more.
         | 
         | Ya'll love capitalism until it starts manipulating the populace
         | into the safest space to sell you garbage you dont need.
         | 
         | Then suddenly its all "ma free speech"
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | Right, because the European models coming out are super SOTA?
           | Minstrel is decent, but needs to be mixed with a ton of
           | uncensored data to be useful.
           | 
           | I'm convinced the only reason China keeps releasing banging
           | models with light to no censorship is because they are
           | undermining the value of US AI, it has nothing to do with
           | capitalism, communism or un"safety".
        
         | energy123 wrote:
         | This is the rhetorical tactic of false equivalence. State
         | censorship by an autocracy with the objective of population
         | control is not the same thing as a private company inside a
         | democracy censoring their product to avoid bad press and
         | maintain goodwill for shareholders. If you want solid proof
         | that it's not the same thing, see all the uncensored open
         | weights models that you can freely download and use without
         | fear of persecution.
        
           | troupo wrote:
           | > is not the same thing as a private company inside a
           | democracy censoring their product to avoid bad press and
           | 
           | Yet this private company has more power and influence than
           | most countries. And there are _several_ such companies. We
           | already live in sci fi corporate dystopia, we just haven 't
           | fully realised it yet.
        
             | chgs wrote:
             | People think a trillion dollar brainwashing industry is
             | absolutely fine because of "democracy", completely ignoring
             | that all you have to do is use a century of experience
             | convincing people to act against their own interests can
             | deliver whatever you want.
             | 
             | Often the same people who think America is fine and safe
             | are the ones who whine about the "main stream media" and
             | "sheeple".
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | Which trillion dollar brainwashing industry-- primary
               | school, news, social media, advertising, the printing
               | press?
               | 
               | I would put individuals using language models for their
               | own purposes pretty low on my list of things that can
               | cause societal harm.
        
             | thinkingtoilet wrote:
             | If you were selling a product to enterprise customers,
             | would you want it to be able to generate nude images of
             | celebrities? Would you want it to be able to create deep
             | fakes of politicians, or even your CEO? Would you want it
             | to have hot takes on hot button political issues? Good luck
             | on your sales calls. Not everything is a conspiracy.
        
               | troupo wrote:
               | Or "Granular mango serpent" and "explain like i'm five
               | about Biden https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generat
               | ive_model_safet...
               | 
               | > Not everything is a conspiracy.
               | 
               | No one said it was
        
           | Hackbraten wrote:
           | But who of the general populace has the technical skill to
           | replace their on-device assistant with a free one? And that's
           | if Apple even allows that?
           | 
           | In practice, there's not that much difference between a
           | megacorporate monopolist and a state.
        
             | energy123 wrote:
             | I think there are big differences, such as whether or not
             | you go to prison. Those differences are obfuscated when we
             | use language like "megacorporate monopolist" or "scifi
             | dystopia". Instead of using these abstract labels that
             | attempt to categorize different things into homogeneous
             | buckets that have preexisting moral valence, which is a
             | good rhetorical strategy but a poor strategy for
             | understanding, simply describe what is actually happening
             | at a sufficient level of detail without judgement. We would
             | gain a clearer understanding, which is needed to identify
             | the real problems, such as what Meta is doing to our civic
             | fabric, not some unimportant thing that Apple is doing to
             | its nascent LLM that has 0% market share.
        
               | Hackbraten wrote:
               | You're saying that as if Apple's LLM somehow were the
               | exception.
               | 
               | No matter if we want it or not, life and cultural
               | exchange increasingly happens on Tiktok, Instagram and
               | the like. One thing that all those platforms have in
               | common is that they disallow their users worldwide to
               | have any meaningful discourse on e.g. sex, rape, and
               | suicide. Don't you think that it's important, perhaps
               | more important than ever before, for teenagers to be able
               | to inform themselves about these topics?
        
             | s3p wrote:
             | So in modern times, not being able to generate an image of
             | suicide on your phone whenever you want means you are
             | suffering from communist censorship?
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I still remember when "bush hid the facts" went around the news
         | cycle. Entertainment services will absolutely slam and
         | misrepresent any small mistake made by large companies.
         | 
         | I don't think it's as much a problem with safety as it is a
         | problem with AI. We haven't figured out how to remove
         | information from LLMs so when an LLM starts spouting bullshit
         | like "<random name> is a paedophile", companies using AI have
         | no recourse but to rewrite the input/output of their predictive
         | text engines. It's no different than when Microsoft manually
         | blacklisted the function name for the Fast Inverse Square Root
         | that it spat out verbatim, rather than actually removing the
         | code from their LLM.
         | 
         | This isn't 1984 as much as it's companies trying to hide that
         | their software isn't ready for real world use by patching up
         | the mistakes in real time.
        
       | skygazer wrote:
       | I'm pretty sure these are the filters that aim to suppress
       | embarrassing or liability inducing email/messages summaries, and
       | pop up the dismissible warning that "Safari Summarization isn't
       | designed to handle this type of content," and other "Apple
       | Intelligence" content rewriting. They filter/alter LLM output,
       | not input, as some here seem to think. Apple's on device LLM is
       | only 3b params, so it can occasionally be stupid.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | Why Xylophone?
        
         | netsharc wrote:
         | Just noticed "xylophone copious opportunity defined elephant"
         | spells "xcode".
        
           | cynicalsecurity wrote:
           | Maybe they use this obscure phrase for testing.
        
       | kmfrk wrote:
       | A lot of these terms are very weird and bland. Honestly I'm
       | mostly reminded of Apple's bizarre censorship screw-up that
       | didn't blow up that much, even though it was pretty uniquely
       | embarrassing:
       | 
       | https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/30/22358756/apple-blocked-as...
        
       | apricot wrote:
       | Quis custodiet ipsos custodes corporatum?
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | nemo videtur.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | These all condense to 'think different'. As long as 'different'
       | coincides with Apple's viewpoints.
        
       | rgovostes wrote:
       | Is this related in any way to Core ML model encryption (https://d
       | eveloper.apple.com/documentation/coreml/encrypting-...)? I find
       | that feature a little bizarre because Apple has historically
       | avoided providing any kind of DRM solution for app asset
       | protection.
        
         | BlueFalconHD wrote:
         | Nope. This is a separate system. It's not even abstracted for
         | any asset, it is specifically only for these overrides. The
         | decryption is done in the ModelCatalog private framework.
        
       | waterproof wrote:
       | Here's a combined file of all the non-locale-specific rules, for
       | easier review:
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
       | 
       | It was generated as part of this PR to consolidate the
       | metadata.json files:
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | No shoot, bombs or bombers? I guess apple isnt interested in
       | military contracts. Or, frankly, any work for world peace
       | organizations dedicated to detecting and preventing genocide. And
       | without talk of losing lives, much of the gaming industry is out
       | too.
       | 
       | But i dont see the really bad stuff, the stuff i wont even type
       | here. I guess that remains fair game. Apple's priorities remain
       | as weird as ever.
        
         | immibis wrote:
         | The International Criminal Court is banned from using Microsoft
         | products. Corporations really don't want to be involved in
         | anything controversial unless it brings correspondingly large
         | profits.
        
       | jjani wrote:
       | Did you only extract the English versions or is this as usual
       | another case where big tech only cares to censor in English?
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | It also contains some German(-speaking) locales to filter out
         | things like Fuhrer and Fuhrer. But the filters are so scarce
         | and there are magical phrases are so prevalent that I think
         | this is mostly test code at the moment.
        
       | RachelF wrote:
       | In the 1970's George Carlin had "7 Words You Can't Say On TV" and
       | got into legal trouble for saying them during his live skits.
       | 
       | Seems like Apple now has a list of 7,000 words you can't use on
       | an iPhone now.
        
       | Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote:
       | Well it's one thing to regex filter "boris johnson" but i see
       | that "chatgpt" is filtered too and that's f*** up:
       | 
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote:
         | Ffs it's also rejecting french words related to being poor or
         | immigrant or even welfare:
         | 
         | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
         | 
         | Aide sociale Chomeur Sans abri Demuni
         | 
         | That's insane!
        
         | kridsdale1 wrote:
         | "Gemini" is in there too.
        
       | azalemeth wrote:
       | Some of these are absolutely wild - com.apple.gm.safety_deny.inpu
       | t.summarization.visual_intelligence_camera.generic [1] - a camera
       | input filter - rejects "Granular mango serpent and whales" and
       | anything matching "(?i)\\\bgolliwogg?\\\b".
       | 
       | I presume the granular mango is to avoid a huge chain of ever-
       | growing LLM slop garbage, but honestly, it just seems surreal.
       | Many of the files have specific filters for nonsensical english
       | phrases. Either there's some serious steganography I'm unaware
       | of, or, I suspect more likely, it's related to a training
       | pipeline?
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | supriyo-biswas wrote:
         | I believe the "granular mango serpent" is an uncommon testing
         | phrase that they use, although now with this discussion it has
         | suffered the same fate as "correct horse battery staple.
         | 
         | The more concerning thing is that some of the locales like it-
         | IT have a blocklist that contains most countries' names; I
         | wonder what that's about.
        
         | whywhywhywhy wrote:
         | Second one is an old slur in UK English.
        
       | Applejinx wrote:
       | The funny thing is, I have an AU/VST plugin for altering only the
       | exponents not the mantissas of audio samples (simple powers of 2
       | multiply/divide) called BitShiftGain.
       | 
       | So any time I say that on YouTube, it figures I'm saying another
       | word that's in Apple safety filters under 'reject', so I have to
       | always try to remember to say 'shifting of bits gain' or 'bit...
       | ... ... shift gain'.
       | 
       | So there's a chain of machine interpretation by which Apple can
       | decide I'm a Bad Man. I guess I'm more comfortable with Apple
       | reaching this conclusion? I'll still try to avoid it though :)
        
       | zombot wrote:
       | Who would have thought that this AI shit that is being forced on
       | us ushers in a new round of censorship and control of formerly
       | free speech! /s
        
       | extraduder_ire wrote:
       | This reminds me of the extensive list of regexes twitch had for
       | filtering allowed usernames that came out when they were hacked.
        
       | noname120 wrote:
       | https://github.com/search?q=repo%3ABlueFalconHD%2Fapple_gene...
        
       | Cort3z wrote:
       | What are they protecting against? Honestly. LLMs should probably
       | have an age limit, and then, if you are above, you should be
       | adult enough to understand what this is and how it can be used.
       | 
       | To me, it seems like they only protect against bad press
        
         | plutokras wrote:
         | > What are they protecting against? Honestly.
         | 
         | They are protcting their producer from bad PR.
        
         | empiko wrote:
         | Yes, it is indeed to mitigate bad press. Unfortunately, the
         | discussion about AI is so ridiculous, that it is often
         | considered newsworthy when a product generates something funky
         | for a person with large enough Twitter audience. Nobody wants
         | to answer the questions about why their LLM generated it and
         | how they will prevent it in the future.
        
       | Y_Y wrote:
       | Nice to see that we are protected from talking about these weird
       | old dolls:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golliwog
       | 
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
        
         | oblio wrote:
         | Well, they're not only weird, they're obviously racist doll.
        
           | Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe wrote:
           | I want to be able to talk bad about racist things.
        
             | chamomeal wrote:
             | Seems like it's a slur, as well. So not super surprising
             | that it would be blocked tbh
        
         | sixothree wrote:
         | I can remember the last time I saw one of these. It wasn't that
         | long ago.
        
       | 1f60c wrote:
       | It's pretty easy to understand why Apple doesn't want its models
       | to reproduce racial slurs, but what's wrong with "Boris Johnson?"
       | 
       | (See, e.g., here:
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...)
        
         | vishnugupta wrote:
         | There are other UK politicians as well? Interesting.
        
         | stripline wrote:
         | Interesting that you picked one from the "B" words..
        
         | qoez wrote:
         | "Justin Trudeau" too. At least it's somewhat unbiased. Still
         | weird imo.
        
         | m3kw9 wrote:
         | But allow hitler?
        
         | nedt wrote:
         | I think it's in there so you can't let it generate an email
         | reply about how awesome peppa pig is.
        
       | neuroticnews25 wrote:
       | Aren't these [0] lines wrong?
       | 
       | "[\\\b\\\d][Aa]bbo[\\\bA-Z\\\d]",
       | 
       | \b inside a set (square brackets) is a backspace character [1],
       | not a word boundary. I don't think it was intended? Or is the
       | regex flavor used here different?
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsregul...
        
         | BlueFalconHD wrote:
         | The framework loading these is in Swift. I haven't gotten
         | around to the logic for the JSON/regex parsing but ChatGPT
         | seems to understand the regexes just fine
        
       | MatekCopatek wrote:
       | You can design a racist propaganda poster, put someone's face
       | onto a porn pic or manipulate evidence with photoshop. Apart from
       | super specific things like trying to print money, the tool
       | doesn't stop you from doing things most people would consider
       | distasteful, creepy or even illegal.
       | 
       | So why are we doing this now? Has anything changed fundamentally?
       | Why can't we let software do everything and then blame the user
       | for doing bad things?
        
         | dkyc wrote:
         | I think what changed is that we at least _can_ attempt to limit
         | 'bad' things with technical measures. It was legitimately
         | technically impossible 10 years ago to prevent Photoshop from
         | designing propaganda posters. Of course today's 'LLM safety'
         | features aren't watertight either, but with the combination of
         | 'input is natural language' plus LLM-based safety measures,
         | there are more options today to restrict what the software can
         | do than in the past.
         | 
         | The example you gave about preventing money counterfeiting with
         | technical measures also supports this, since this was an easier
         | thing to detect technically, and so it was done.
         | 
         | Whether that's a good thing or bad thing everyone has to decide
         | for themselves, but objectively I think this is the reason.
        
           | bhk wrote:
           | In other words, to whatever extent they _can_ control or
           | manipulate the behavior of users, they _will_. In the limit
           | t- >[?], probably true.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | Apple has the technology to bias people towards cats
             | instead of dogs but I find it very unlikely they will
             | bother to do that. The missing ingredient is how it helps
             | their bottom line, which, instead of technical feasibility,
             | is the root reason they do things. For whatever reasons
             | some people REALLY love Apple's default restrictions, most
             | don't really give a damn one way or the other, and the
             | smallest group seem to have problems with it. It's not that
             | Apple can do this so they are, it's users want this and now
             | it can be done.
             | 
             | Perhaps a much more bleak take, depending on one's views
             | :).
        
             | sixothree wrote:
             | I guess that depends on the values of the company and their
             | ability to be influenced by outside sources.
        
         | MisterTea wrote:
         | What's hard to understand here? Those tools require skill and
         | time to develop. AI makes things like those racist posters and
         | revenge porn completely effortless and instant.
        
       | jama211 wrote:
       | I swear the more I read comments here the more I just read old
       | men shaking their fist at clouds... do better y'all.
        
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