[HN Gopher] The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for ...
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       The chemical secrets that help keep honey fresh for so long
        
       Author : bookofjoe
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2025-07-04 11:04 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | cryptonector wrote:
       | Really high sugar concentrations will pop the cells of any simple
       | organisms.
        
         | xattt wrote:
         | </article>
        
         | Terr_ wrote:
         | I like to imagine it as humans stranded in a strange land where
         | all the geography is dry cake. And _only_ dry cake.
        
         | kragen wrote:
         | No, low. High sugar concentrations mean low water activity,
         | which osmotically pumps water _out_ of cells, not _into_ them,
         | so they shrivel rather than popping.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | The real secret is osmotic pressure.
        
       | mhb wrote:
       | Similarly, chocolate.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | You can take honey that has crystalized and set it in sunlight
         | to "melt" back into the gooey goodness, but you can't do that
         | to chocolate that has that white powdery stuff on it.
        
           | mhb wrote:
           | Right. Once the undesirable crystals in chocolate have formed
           | it has to be re-tempered to get the desirable ones to
           | dominate. But it hasn't spoiled.
        
           | quibono wrote:
           | I've often wondered about this - is sunlight really all
           | that's needed?
        
             | liquidpele wrote:
             | Heat is needed, not sunlight.
        
       | bjelkeman-again wrote:
       | The story misses that lactic acid bacteria are fairly common in
       | honey and seem to be out competing other bacteria and have anti
       | microbial effects.
       | 
       | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7949542/
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | This story can be summarized as "Low water activity and low pH
       | keep honey fresh permanently." The other 14 paragraphs are just
       | filler. Moreover, even that summary is factually incorrect; low
       | water activity and low pH don't come close to explaining honey's
       | astounding shelf life, which amounts to centuries in many cases.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Preservation in particular
       | mentions gluconic acid and hydrogen peroxide produced by the
       | bees' glucose oxidase, and
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Medical_use_and_research also
       | mentions its content of methylglyoxal, which damages DNA and
       | cross-links proteins somewhat like formaldehyde, thus killing
       | microorganisms; manuka honey is required to contain at least
       | 85mg/kg of methylglyoxal, according to
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81nuka_honey. I suspect that
       | there is a great deal more research on the topic.
       | 
       | It's disappointing to see such a low-quality article on the BBC
       | website; I generally regard the BBC as a reliable source.
        
         | vlovich123 wrote:
         | Are you sure this isn't just the Gell-Mann effect? It sounds
         | like you're probably better informed about this than the
         | typical person and might be expecting a lot more detail than a
         | newspaper would be endeavoring to try to convey.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gell-Mann_amnesia_effect
        
           | jagged-chisel wrote:
           | I think the point is that the article is conveying too much
           | of the wrong kind of details.
        
             | kragen wrote:
             | vlovich123 may be correct that I am giving the BBC too much
             | credit in general. But I don't think I'm especially well-
             | informed; I'd never heard of methylglyoxal before looking
             | this up in Wikipedia.
             | 
             | I agree that its focus is somewhat wrong. I don't think
             | that the backgrounder on the importance of food
             | preservation is _completely_ without value. It 's just that
             | it's already fairly well known that food rots and why.
             | 
             | My larger objection, though, is that there are important,
             | well-established reasons for honey to be far less
             | perishable than other substances of similar water activity
             | and pH, and the article does not mention them even briefly.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-07 23:00 UTC)