[HN Gopher] A 37-year-old wanting to learn computer science
___________________________________________________________________
A 37-year-old wanting to learn computer science
Author : chbkall
Score : 145 points
Date : 2025-07-05 08:52 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (initcoder.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (initcoder.com)
| heyak wrote:
| Hey, love your journey!
| chbkall wrote:
| Thank you
| bilvar wrote:
| The things described as the goal of the OP are not Computer
| Science, they're mostly Software Engineering/Development. Even
| though there is overlap Computer Science is mostly math,
| completely irrelevant to setting up static blogs or web servers
| and somewhat relevant to developing applications. A more accurate
| title would have been "wanting to learn software development and
| the relevant bits of computer science which help with that"
| xeonmc wrote:
| Also, software has two things going for older late-starters:
|
| - The mental muscles involved in the act of making software
| tends to be those that mature the latest, around 25--30. It is
| also the case for comprehending the concepts, because in the
| end software is mostly about "human rules for doing things"
| rather than "how things are in Nature, deal with it however you
| can".
|
| - The proportion of the total corpus of knowledge probably has
| the highest online-availability of any technical fields, rather
| than being completely locked-in to academic intitutions.
| vunderba wrote:
| Was surprised to not see this mentioned earlier in this HN
| post. Author seems to be conflating software development with
| computer science.
|
| Making a bunch of apps isn't going to provide a solid
| foundation in CS which usu. includes topics such as linear
| algebra, discrete mathematics, calc (at a minimum differential
| and integral), data structures, algorithms, etc.
| bilvar wrote:
| What's surprising to me is that I've received downvotes for
| mentioning this.
| matt3210 wrote:
| Find a series of small irritations on your computer and write
| scripts to solve them.
| notepad0x90 wrote:
| Solid advice. I would just add to write C. There is a thing
| about finding a problem that really annoys you that focuses and
| tunnelvision's you.
| chbkall wrote:
| I tried learning C a while back. I would like to review it
| again and build / solve some problems using C.
| greengrass42 wrote:
| Give Arduino a look. C plus hardware for about $60 for a
| good starter kit.
| UncleEntity wrote:
| I know C fairly well and the only time I really use it is
| to write some python extension code to wrap a C(++) library
| to solve some problem using python.
|
| For example, I've been using json as a database (instead of
| just, you know, using an actual database) and the python
| json module was annoyingly slow so I wrapped the
| boost::property_tree library in a python module. Every once
| in a while I'll use it to learn some new python C-API thing
| so now it has all sorts of bells and whistles which are
| totally unnecessary for my use case. I just looked and I've
| been poking at that thing for almost six years now, huh.
|
| One thing I've been having a lot of fun doing lately is
| arguing with to robots to try to get them to write good
| code for some projects I've always wanted to do but never
| gotten around to. Not saying this is a good way to learn C
| but they are pretty good at answering questions on why they
| did something in a certain way -- which isn't always a good
| way or even the right way -- so I've been learning a lot
| more about C doing that. Though, honestly, it would be
| faster to just write the code myself a lot of the time
| but...
|
| If I were to start over (I learned to code "for reals" in
| my mid-30s) I'd probably learn one of the fancy newfangled
| languages like Go. The only real reason I know python is
| blender uses it and I used to hack on blender so, _ipso
| facto_ , I learned python. While knowing how to hunt down
| segfaults like a truffle pig is a good skill to have I'd
| say it's one of those things which you don't really need to
| know anymore, I've shelved quite a few things before I
| learned to do that and it's more fun to end up with a
| working project than a broken, I'll get back to it later,
| project.
| chbkall wrote:
| Would you give me a small example of the kind of small
| irritations you are talking about here?
| surgical_fire wrote:
| For example - I wrote a script that automatically rsyncs a
| bunch of folders I care about to one external HD, and then
| replicates the backup to a different external HD for backup
| purposes.
|
| That sort of thing that would require you to run a bunch of
| commands and that you have to do from time to time.
| Automating it to a single script is cool.
|
| I have a friend that wrote a bot to track the prices of stuff
| that he wants to buy and messages him on Telegram the current
| price and the min/max since it started running. Another fun
| little project.
| chbkall wrote:
| Ah. This definitely sounds exciting and makes me think.
| Disposal8433 wrote:
| Not OP but when I was way younger I had some trouble learning
| programming languages. Following tutorials was boring and
| gave limited instructions. Someone on the internet gave the
| same piece of advice, i.e. to do something useful in your
| life.
|
| I was at the time downloading a lot of porn pictures but the
| internet connection was slow and unreliable. And that's how I
| learned the Ruby programming language with its regexes, how
| to parse HTML with those regexes, parsing CLI arguments, and
| how to download files and put them in proper folders. It was
| the cleanest and best script/framework I have ever written.
|
| The moral of the story is to find something to do, and it
| will show you a lot more.
| kbelder wrote:
| Way back when, before it was very feasible for the general
| public to get internet access (in the Mosaic days, maybe 94
| or 95), I found that I could access my local college
| library with my dial-up modem. Their system let you connect
| to the lending services of other university libraries. I
| found one (maybe Oregon State?) that let you access Gopher.
| That was pretty interesting in it's own right, but there
| was no ability to display images, and the functionality to
| download files was removed, so pornography was
| frustratingly hard to obtain. You could look at ascii
| art...
|
| But you could dump uuencoded binary files to the screen.
| Capture it, read it from the text buffer, reformat it,
| decode it, and then... a glorious 25kb jpg of a scanned
| Playboy image. (In HAM mode on my Amiga.)
|
| I spent so much time doing that stuff. Wasted time, in a
| sense, but it motivated me to learn much I might not
| otherwise have bothered to. The desire of a young man to
| see a woman in her glory should not be underestimated;
| societies suffer if they point that energy in the wrong
| direction.
|
| As a 37-year old married man, the OP has probably acquired
| some other motivations, though.
| albertojacini wrote:
| I started when I was 34, for the same motivations that you
| describe. It become my profession and my hobby. I'm now 47 and
| I'm still enjoying the ride a lot.
| chbkall wrote:
| Right there is my motivation.
| ciwolex wrote:
| If you want to really learn it and master it, I'd advise you
| start with a project to build something you'd like. With that in
| mind, learn a programming language. JavaScript, CSS and HTML will
| be a good start for the frontend. You'll then need some backend
| skills. You could learn MySQL and JavaScript will also help you
| develop the back end. Along the way, you'll figure out a lot of
| the stuff yourself. Avoid using AI at all costs if you really
| want to learn. Once you've mastered the skill, AI will be a
| multiplier. Good luck
| 867-5309 wrote:
| they built the blog you (possibly) just read..
| cynicalsecurity wrote:
| There is no age limit.
| dvh wrote:
| There is, 127 years (nearest round number from maximal human
| lifespan)
| matt3210 wrote:
| Appropriate given age starts at 0
| greenbit wrote:
| Drat, I forgot to wish my son "happy zeroeth birthday" when
| he was born.
| dickstrawng wrote:
| when he came out of the big O you forgot to make a
| notation?
| addvicks wrote:
| Stop writing about how you're going to do this, and just do it.
| Everything you need is available online.
|
| Writing blog posts like this is a form of procrastination, and
| distracts from your stated goal.
| zeroCalories wrote:
| Blogging about your work can be great, and they haven't
| actually stalled out yet so you're being too cynical.
| thomascountz wrote:
| > I designed this website on my own as well while reading the
| book Refactoring UI [2]. This took me almost 4 months.
|
| They have built something and they have used that something to
| shape a plan for achieving their goal. "Stated goal" and "just
| do it," are mutually consistent with "writing blog posts like
| this..."
| mrkickling wrote:
| You might be right but I also think writing down your goals can
| be useful if you want to achieve them.
| moktonar wrote:
| In the end it's all about bytes and the meaning you assign them.
|
| Edit: and algorithms
| qwe----3 wrote:
| A bit too much romanticizing the field of software for me... I'm
| not sure this will really help you rediscover yourself.
| dickstrawng wrote:
| someone baking cake should not talk about doing thermodynamics.
| I agree, this guy should go into vibecoding
| mattlondon wrote:
| Good luck.
|
| I'd recommend finding a MOOC course that covers some of the
| fundamentals of computer science to make sure you have a really
| solid grasp of the fundamentals - the whys and how's etc. Data
| structures, algorithms, networking, databases, design paradigms
| (so Object orientated Vs functional Vs whatever), testing etc. If
| they use multiple programming languages in different classes then
| all the better as I think learning more than one makes it easier
| to grasp the principles at a more theoretical/abstract level and
| not just how language foo does it and you'll find your favourite
| language(s) eventually in your own time so don't give up if the
| class is in a language you don't know/like.
|
| It's tempting to use AI - I'd recommend you think of it as a
| knowledgeable friend who you can ask questions - is there a
| better way to do this/what alternatives are there? What does this
| function do? Why does this code do this and not that etc etc. You
| won't learn if it just implements for you, but as a learning
| companion you can bounce ideas off of or help you out of a rut
| etc it is great.
|
| It is tempting to concentrate on like a React Bootcamp or
| whatever to get "practical skills" to start going off and
| building things, but I think that is like the difference of being
| the person who is paid to only _assemble_ flat pack furniture
| following instructions vs the person who is paid to _design_ the
| flat pack furniture and all the smart little fittings and how it
| all goes together and will it be strong enough and fit in the box
| and meet the price point and look like what the designer wanted
| it to look like and so on.
|
| Finally, don't worry about writing "bad code" or bugs. We all do
| it from time to time and no one is perfect.
| chbkall wrote:
| Thank you for your kind suggestions and advice. Concentrating
| on 'practical skills' and 'shiny frameworks' is exactly
| something I want to avoid and focus on aspects (data
| structures, algorithms, networking etc) which you talked about.
|
| I will keep your advise on AI in mind.
| patchule wrote:
| "knowledgeable friend who you can ask questions"
|
| A friend who will randomly lie and mislead you in ways you
| can't detect. Might be better to use ai for stuff like writing
| tests, summarizing data, and other low level stuff one can
| effectively supervise and where errors are low impact.
|
| I would not treat current llm based ai models as an expert or a
| trusted friend but as the exact opposite, an unfriendly fake-
| expert. Unfriendly fake experts are still extremely useful if
| they work for free and can be scaled up, so definitely op
| should use ai, but he should never trust it.
| mattlondon wrote:
| Knowledgeable human friends also make mistakes! They are not
| infallible experts who never get things wrong.
|
| Both humans and LLMs may know more than you and may have
| additional perspectives and experiences to draw on. Just like
| you'd not trust a knowledgeable friend to be omnipotent and
| 100% correct 100% of the time when you ask for advice,
| neither would you an AI.
|
| But the point I was trying to make was to _not_ use AI to
| implement things for you (even tests) as you 're not going to
| learn if the AI is doing the repetition for you. You can
| supervise yes, but only when you've been there and learnt the
| ropes already (i.e. when you are already an experienced
| software engineer and know the details)
| noelwelsh wrote:
| In a good economy, one year is more than enough time to get a job
| (considering most bootcamps are 12 weeks, and I know a lot of
| bootcamp graduates who are employed as developers.) Learning on
| the job can be beneficial as you usually have others to learn
| with, and learning is contextualized.
|
| Good luck with it!
| ilamont wrote:
| Are boot camps still a thing? I thought the bloom was off, as
| documented here many times in recent years.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15095805
| trollbridge wrote:
| Boot camps are largely a way to separate people from their
| money and leave them in $12k of debt.
| noelwelsh wrote:
| Bootcamps are definitely problematic in many cases, and I'm
| sure they are not as popular as they once were. However I
| personally know a bunch of people who have been through
| bootcamps and are now employed as software developers, so in
| some cases they do work.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| In some sense blog posts like this shouldn't even need to exist,
| or the doubt you can read between the lines. At 37 you're a
| decade and a half into adult life, you probably got like 50 years
| left or who knows how much with what the future will bring.
|
| That people who haven't even reached middle age yet are already
| mindful of ageism when it comes to reinventing themselves is just
| crazy. There's something messed up in our culture around age.
| It's one thing I enjoyed about chess growing up. Chess clubs are
| one of the places where you genuinely meet people at every age
| and skill level and they don't feel like they need to justify it.
| fn-mote wrote:
| > My lovely wife ([...] who believes I have adult ADHD) is
| supportive of my journey, and has no qualms becoming the only
| breadwinner of the family.
|
| Some advice for the OP:
|
| 1. Don't give up working. IMO, a job provides structure to the
| ADHD and keeps you moving forward instead of spinning your
| wheels. Change job? Sure. Work 25 hours/week? Sure. Not 0 though.
|
| 2. Before you start on the projects, spend some time learning how
| to design programs. I like HtDP.org but it's kind of oriented to
| a class setting.
|
| 3. OSSU could be the project of a lifetime. Beware getting sucked
| in there. That said, some of the courses referenced are
| excellent. Knowing ALL of them is a lot.
|
| 4. Have an exit plan if you are not working. When will you work
| again? Some bad scenarios are less horrible if you are ready to
| jump back into the workforce.
| chbkall wrote:
| Hey thank you for the time you took to comment and offer
| advice.
|
| 1. I agree. I am still working on the community project which
| my wife is building - it has started to grow and looks like it
| has the potential to become a sustainable source of income. I
| have built the website and automated some stuff for her. I am
| also honing my skill as a woodworker and toymaker - learning to
| make wooden toys.
|
| 2. I did the HtDP version of the program hosted on the edX
| platform. I enjoyed the whole program and it was very
| insightful on how to think about creating larger and complex
| programs. It also motivated me to read the SICP textbook - I've
| read a couple of chapters from the book. I also adapted the
| HtDP program in Hindi to teach village girls here for a local
| non-profit on how to code.
|
| 3. I agree about OSSU. What I don't like about OSSU courses is
| retention. I did the Programming Languages (A, B and C) course
| by Dan Grossman a few months back. I enjoyed the course and the
| exercises - but I am not sure how much of it I retain today.
| These and the HtDP program has definitely helped me to think
| what might be happening inside the hood of programs rather than
| treating them as magical boxes.
|
| 4. I think I can keep exploring computers while simultaneously
| make my living as a woodworker / toymaker. It also helps me
| balance my faculties of mind and my hands /body. I am not
| thinking of an end goal at the moment but want to keep
| exploring and potentially building.
| globalnode wrote:
| when i was learning i remember crying into my c++ book
| because i had no idea what they were trying to say. learning
| computing did not come easy to me. i think the only thing to
| be wary of is feeling like a fraud, even though you may
| eventually know a lot and be an accomplished programmer (it
| helps if you have people that believe in you). good luck to
| you though and i hope you enjoy learning all the new and
| interesting things in this field!
| underconstructn wrote:
| I'm glad that you're following your passion.
|
| It's been difficult talking with people that have made the
| decision to go into development, because it's a weird and
| risky occupation right now.
|
| An analogy would be wanting to become an artist, so you learn
| your way into a field position on a semi-pro baseball league
| where artists play baseball. Some players come up with their
| own unique spin on the ball as they throw it, others attempt
| to swing the bat the way they've been told. Older players may
| have advice, but not play as hard. The goal is to just make
| points, and new players are in awe of the artistic ways they
| could become great and make bank. For years and years,
| players would get injured, fired, or just age out in their
| thirties, because you rarely ever saw anyone older; there
| were some small old person leagues, too, I guess? And older
| players might become managers, coaches, owners, sports
| journalists, or just leave the profession. They just kind of
| disappear- people are only thinking about the game. But,
| within the past several months, players have started working
| independently with robots on the field. The companies making
| the robots swap out new robots every few weeks which
| compliment the players and play something that seems like
| baseball, but often isn't. People worry that robots seem to
| be attempting to takeover the jobs of the players. They
| mostly hit some runs when no one is on base, but they create
| holes in the field in the process. People don't understand
| why the players are either micromanaging the robots or are
| spending time filling holes, because the robots score points,
| and they're focused on the scoreboard.
|
| Does the artist belong on a baseball field?
|
| Is there a more efficient way to score points?
| the_arun wrote:
| In addition to this comment.
|
| A good student finds teachers everywhere. The converse is true
| too. The drive & patience are the most important things.
|
| Take one problem - solve it end to end by first principles.
| You'll do great.
| globnomulous wrote:
| 1. Agreed. There's strong evidence that most people who quit
| their jobs to pursue passion projects accomplish less than
| those who pursue them but keep their jobs.
| lukan wrote:
| Can you share that strong evidence?
| globnomulous wrote:
| Oof, no, I can't. I'd edit my comment, tempering that
| certainty, if I could.
|
| I recall multiple therapists telling me precisely that,
| according to the research, people are less likely to
| accomplish or make progress on passion projects when they
| quit their jobs with that goal in mind. I have memories of
| finding papers on this, too. Now I can't find them, and I'm
| questioning the accuracy of my memory.
|
| Disheartening and embarrassing, but probably healthy, too.
| Thanks for the reality check.
| thomascountz wrote:
| I feel as if commenters have not read the blog post in the same
| way I have.
|
| More than anything, what a self-starter community-taught coder
| needs is motivation, curiosity, and access to resources. It does
| not matter where you begin, so long as you have enough stuff to
| take the next step.
|
| OP, as you've said so yourself, the places you can go are vast!
| And it's no small thing to have already made working things! Now
| is the time to play, discover what you like and don't like, start
| projects and abandon them, go down rabbit holes, get stuck and
| frustrated, to over-romanticize, to become bored, to feel like an
| imposter, to become jaded but then to be inspired again, and to
| experience the magic of making.
|
| I wish you luck and thank you for sharing. I'm excited to learn
| from you!
| chbkall wrote:
| Thank you for your kind words and motivation. I would like to
| experience what you have talked about here.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| >[I]t is not aimed towards landing a job as a software developer.
|
| >I am mindful of the ageist tendencies in the tech industry [...]
|
| These two claims seem at odds to me. If you're not aiming at
| getting a job, why does it matter to you what the tendencies of
| the tech industry are?
| randomNumber7 wrote:
| I would recommend to take the time and read some of the old
| papers and texts to get a deep understanding. Like Codd's paper
| on relational databases and Shannon's paper on entropy.
|
| Also while I would not start a project in C understanding the
| memory model and how to implement basic data structures in it is
| s.th. every programmer should know IMHO.
| klipo wrote:
| Good luck! I'm going through a similar journey. I'm in my late
| thirties and only started software engineering professionally 5
| years ago, without a formal CS degree, but with a hobby-level
| affinity for computers. It seems like you have an intrinsic
| interest in the subject. I think this is THE key, because you
| will grow the most by figuring things out in a play-like fashion,
| this will solidify your understanding and build intuition.
|
| Looking back what has helped me a lot is being surrounded by more
| experienced engineers that were good at teaching (those are quite
| rare I discovered later). Other than that, read a lot of code,
| write a lot of code, and keep reflecting on what areas to further
| develop. Be kind to yourself, this space is huge and no one's is
| an expert in all of it. Burn out is real, especially when
| struggling alone for too long. One thing that has helped me as
| well is to realise everything in software engineering has been
| made by humans. None of it is actually 'unknown magic', just keep
| digging deeper to find out how the thing you're struggling with
| works on a more fundamental level. The LLM age has made this so
| much easier.
| chbkall wrote:
| > just keep digging deeper to find out how the thing you're
| struggling with works on a more fundamental level.
|
| Thank you. I will keep these in mind.
|
| Your journey is a source of motivation as well.
| dickstrawng wrote:
| I don't know how comfortable I feel throwing around terms like
| computer science and software engineering. I know a lot of
| people who can program but I would never have them design a
| medical system or anything having to do with life or death
| situations.
| supermatt wrote:
| > I really want to learn how to... (misc domain stuff)
|
| From your objectives, I don't think you want to learn computer
| science, you want to learn how to be a full stack software
| developer.
|
| Learning certain aspects of computer science may certainly help
| you, but it's by no means a prerequisite - and won't help you to
| actually build things.
|
| Learn the things you aim towards by doing and reading domain
| specific knowledge.
| chbkall wrote:
| The objectives I mentioned are somewhat guided by what I know
| at the moment. I really would like to understand computers and
| computing at a more fundamental level. When that happens, I am
| hoping my objectives will also change / evolve.
| MonkeyClub wrote:
| supermatt makes an interesting distinction there: if you're
| more interested in the practical/professional aspect, don't
| get too sidetracked in the theoretical side.
|
| Computer Science is fascinating and wide, but if you're
| interested in reskilling into a new, professionally
| profitable sector, veering too much into the theoretical
| aspect can prove detrimental.
|
| However, as you mention, your objectives will adjust the more
| you come to learn, so it's important to keep an open mind and
| read more widely than just the next necessary thing.
|
| Just beware of ADD side-tracking you, and have clear road
| maos. (Speaking from personal experience there, I always have
| to keep a check on my direction during both study and work,
| lest I lose too much time without much benefit.)
|
| Speaking of roadmaps to study, perhaps this site can provide
| an early guide, augmented by books and courses, for your
| chosen field:
|
| https://roadmap.sh/
|
| And don't let your age deter you. People who love what they
| do are rare and priceless in any age range. If a company
| doesn't want to hire you due to your age, then that's
| probably a company you wouldn't enjoy working for anyway.
| WillAdams wrote:
| I've been re-learning CS (programmed as a kid, then missed
| getting a minor in CS in college after the service by one
| 300-level course which wasn't being re-offered when I needed it)
| and then just did (La)TeX and AppleScript for my day job, but am
| now trying to create a tool for CNC which is quite different from
| those which have existed previously, and one thing which has
| helped a lot is MIT OCW:
|
| - the Python courses got me up-to-speed on the basics of that
| language: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-0001-introduction-to-
| computer-... and https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-100l-introduction-
| to-cs-and-pr...
|
| - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs served as a
| disciplined review of a book which I wasn't patient enough to do
| the exercises of when I first read it:
| https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-001-structure-and-interpretati...
|
| - Mathematics for Computer Science helped make up for my spotty
| math: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-042j-mathematics-for-
| computer-...
|
| I've also found the recent book:
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39996759-a-philosophy-of...
|
| very helpful (first reading I did one chapter at a time, re-
| writing my current project applying the principles of that
| chapter) --- interesting video overview at:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmSAYlu0NcY
|
| If one is fortunate, there are videos on specific
| subjects/algorithms which one needs, e.g.,
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvPPXbo87ds
| chbkall wrote:
| Thank you for sharing these valuable resources. I am already on
| to the OCW Python course and SICP textbook.
|
| How did you start on these resources? Did you start reading
| them because you needed them in your current project Or did you
| read them because you thought they will be useful for your
| project?
| WillAdams wrote:
| I read SICP a long while back, so the video lecture was a
| useful review.
|
| For the balance, I managed to get a working version of my
| project pretty quickly when the Python version of OpenSCAD
| first became available: https://pythonscad.org/ but I quickly
| hit a plateau and was having trouble adding features and
| improving it, so I began researching and trying to learn what
| I needed for:
|
| https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview
|
| Been collecting lists of the books I've been using at:
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/21394355-william-
| adams...
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/21394355-william-
| adams...
|
| I will note that my preference (as a person coming at this
| from (La)TeX is for Literate Programming:
|
| http://literateprogramming.com/
|
| so have also put together:
|
| https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/21394355-william-
| adams...
| anthk wrote:
| Also, install chicken as the scheme interpreter, but do the
| classical SICP.
|
| After you got it installed, run: chicken-
| install srfi-203 chicken-install srfi-216
|
| then, edit a text file called ~/.csirc with the contents:
|
| (import scheme) (import (srfi 203)) (import (srfi 216))
| e12e wrote:
| I thought racket had a #lang for sicp?
|
| https://docs.racket-lang.org/sicp-manual/SICP_Language.html
| kgwxd wrote:
| Where's the part where you became qualified to teach Math,
| Science and Computers to primary students after dropping out of
| school because of "competitive exams" (exams aren't a
| competition)?
| chbkall wrote:
| I started teaching in a small village school (where they don't
| care about your qualifications if you are good at the subject
| and can teach). I did finish my college several years later.
|
| Well, in my part of the world - there are entrance exams for
| good colleges which can be cut-throat.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I wouldn't try to get into. I'm in my 30s and age discrimination
| is real. Nobody wants to hire a 30 something entry level
| engineer. They dont even want 30 something mid-level engineers. I
| know because I have a disability that seems to have capped me at
| these levels, I'm about to be fired, and the job prospects look
| abysmal.
| reactordev wrote:
| The hard part is proving it. They'll say it's culture fit, or
| there's a more qualified candidate. Being fired for any reason
| other than the real reason gives them indemnification should
| you say otherwise.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Well, I have some stuff in writing that shows they violated
| the ADA at least twice. So a lawyer should be able to get a
| nice payout for me when they do fire me.
| reactordev wrote:
| Just don't sign any closing paperwork that would sign your
| rights away.
| giantg2 wrote:
| Severance is basically just "we'll give you money if you
| sign this thing saying you won't sue us". If they give me
| enough, then sure I'll sign it.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| "I have only been ruined but twice in my life -- once, when
| I lost a lawsuit, and once when I won one." -- Voltaire
| trollbridge wrote:
| I've had exactly one job where I mentioned having a
| disability to HR and also one job where I got summarily fired
| for no apparent reason.
|
| Keep your mouth shut about disabilities, and edit your resume
| so you look to be age 25-30. For interviews etc style
| yourself so you don't look "old".
| reactordev wrote:
| I wear my grey with pride but I agree with you on the
| disability part.
| upghost wrote:
| If you want to speed run things and you have a little money to
| spend, I'd check out Dave Beazley's workshops, particularly his
| Advanced Python Mastery course[1].
|
| One advantage you have over senior developers is that senior
| developers need to be generalists, you have the opportunity to go
| deep. It is entirely conceivable you could learn Postgres,
| JavaScript, or Python better than someone who has been
| programming in those languages daily for over a decade simply
| because they have a lot of other things to worry about. They
| can't read the manual cover to cover, no time. You can. Being a
| deep specialist in a technology has a lot of value.
|
| If you find a programming community you love, start going to
| conferences as soon as possible. There are often financial
| opportunities available for new developers.
|
| This is not going to happen overnight. In most cases to get
| proficient you can expect that working 3 hours a day, 3 days per
| week, it will take you about 3 years to reach a point where you
| might be employable -- although you will probably find you need
| to put in more time than that. But you can reach a point where it
| is _enjoyable_ before then.
|
| Good luck.
|
| [1]: https://dabeaz.com/advprog.html
| manuel_w wrote:
| It sounds like you attended this workshop and can recommend it.
| Is that true?
| upghost wrote:
| I've attended 4 of them (3 in person in Chicago, 1 remote
| during Covid), and I took the raft algo implementation course
| twice (second time remote). Half of the reason I take them is
| bc the content is good and the other half is because Dave is
| just genuinely an amazing instructor and human being. It
| takes someone of tremendous talent to present such
| complicated ideas with such simplicity and humility and lack
| of jargon, he talks about implementing consensus algorithms
| the same way someone might patiently teach you to tie your
| shoe. In the era of Big Ego in Big Tech, it's a _truly_
| refreshing difference in perspective.
|
| Each course I took was accompanied shortly after by a
| significant increase in career, compensation, and
| understanding. Like anything else, it is what you make of it.
| All I can say is it was a very good experience for me.
| reactordev wrote:
| I want to call out something here. I'm all for learning to code
| at any age but companies need to stop being ageist and
| discriminatory towards older coders and workers.
|
| I've started to see this myself. I'm certain it's ageism.
|
| To the OP, if you're passionate about it, don't let anyone/thing
| stand in your way.
| jspash wrote:
| Ageism is as real as any other prejudice. And unfortunately
| it's just a difficult to prove. I've seen the faces of the room
| full of "kids" (yea, that's reverse ageism I suppose) when
| doing remote interviews and watched them drop as soon as I
| appear on the screen.
|
| Then it's just a matter of speeding me through the interview
| until they can find the candidate with the "right team dynamic"
| or "culture fit" etc. The excuses I've heard are quite amusing,
| but transparent.
| trollbridge wrote:
| I would simply ask upfront if they're open to hiring over 40
| and/or hiring with a disability (and then mention I'm not
| litigious and simply don't want waste their time if they
| aren't looking for that, no hard feelings). I actually had a
| few places admit they are not going to hire over 40 + a
| disability after I made it clear I have no intentions to sue.
| andrew_lettuce wrote:
| That's pretty stupid on their part, considering you're not
| permitted to break the law because the aggrieved party is
| "ok with it". This is typically a civil rights issue
| handled by government enforcement
| greengrass42 wrote:
| I was let go from a large multi-national in my mid-40's. Went
| contracting and worked every day I wanted to until I retired.
| nyarlathotep_ wrote:
| How did you find work? Something like contract-to-hire gigs
| from Dice or something? Did you create your own LLC or
| similar?
| dickstrawng wrote:
| i've never discriminated. I don't wanna know your name I don't
| wanna see your face. Pass the test pass the interview. we can
| use chat if you want to I don't care. Well maybe now I care
| because of ChatGPT. you also have to pass all the criteria from
| HR, but that could have anything to do with your right to work
| or criminal record. That's not my concern either. On my last
| job the first person I hired was 67 years old and I didn't even
| know it. They did the work of eight people easily. The only
| surprise was that I didn't learn anything from them. (Pro tip:
| if someone like this tries to teach you something someone told
| them to tell you. this guy is not gonna say anything he's
| getting paid EUR300 an hour) What was not surprising, was that
| every project was completed with extremely high-quality and
| completed early. what I learned from him was always keep a
| pocketbook handy for the times you get bored. He was bored very
| often.
| reactordev wrote:
| This is how it's done.
| bitwize wrote:
| I think this is becoming more common.
|
| I started programming when I was five years old, so I kind of fit
| the "whiz kid" profile that everybody thought all programmers
| would be back in the 80s. But one of the things I've noticed, is
| that unlike the situation, say, in Boston, where it was easy to
| find other former "whiz kids", when I attend tech meetups near my
| current city what I find is that almost all of them started
| programming in mid-adulthood, say mid-thirties to forties. Many
| of them even went to the same boot camp. But the joy and wonder
| they experience mirrors what I experienced at age five, poking at
| my Crazy Eddie's-issued VIC-20. I am utterly delighted by this
| discovery, as it lends further credence to the idea in my head
| that programming is something deeply satisfying to the human
| soul.
| globnomulous wrote:
| I don't mean to be a jerk, but I'm having trouble figuring out
| what the point of the post or of posting the post here is. Are
| you asking for advice? Feedback? Suggestions? Criticism? Support?
| The only question your post asks is "but who am I really?"
|
| To be honest, what I hear in the paragraphs that follow is less a
| description of yourself than the pronouncement that you are
| capable, curious, and driven to learn more, that you're excited
| and motivated by the breadth and depth of tech -- that there's so
| much to learn and so much to study and you want to know all of
| it. That's a wonderful starting point, but it also sounds as
| though you are or will be prone to a kind of paralysis.
|
| You have a list of projects you want to work on. This is good.
| Study will give you a foundation (personally, I found DS&A, once
| I approached it methodically and patiently, by far the funnest
| part of learning programming and CS, so projects aren't the only
| way), but building will give you something to put on top of it,
| figuratively speaking.
|
| Just keep on mind that you're probably not going to build these
| things from first principles, so you're probably not going to
| learn operating systems, networking, or programming languages.
| Rather, your going to develop skill in specific tools rely
| onthose technologies. That's fine. But if you really do want to
| dig very specifically into the subjects and technologies
| themselves, then you needto be aware that building the products
| or projects you've described isn't going to give you the progress
| you seem to want.
|
| If you really do want to know networking, don't build a website;
| implement, I don't know, telnet or tcp/ip from scratch after
| reading the spec. If you really want to know operating systems,
| build one. If you want to understand programming languages, DS&A,
| and algorithmic analysis, familiarize yourself with some
| instruction sets; learn discrete math; learn what lambda calcus
| is and how it's used.
|
| > Adult ADHD
|
| I have severe ADHD. I could not survive in the tech world without
| treatment and medication. YMMV, but you should get treatment if
| you haven't already. Last time I checked, there was essentially
| no empirical evidence supporting the coping strategies so many
| people advocate. Medication is the one, and the only, proven
| treatment for the condition.
| zahlman wrote:
| > I have severe ADHD. I could not survive in the tech world
| without treatment and medication. YMMV, but you should get
| treatment if you haven't already.
|
| I won't speak for OP, but from what I've been able to figure
| out locally, it's quite difficult (will take years and is
| largely down to chance, and anything you might to do help the
| process along is inhibited by the condition itself) to even get
| a diagnosis unless you're quite wealthy and willing to spend a
| chunk of it.
| globnomulous wrote:
| That's a good point. The delay varies wildly from place to
| place. In the US, if you have good medical coverage, you can
| get a diagnosis and start treatment in a month or two. In
| Western Europe -- partly because of the nature of their
| medical system but also because of their much greater
| cultural skepticism towards medication -- the wait can indeed
| be years. This partly kept me from accepting a job I badly
| wanted in Copenhagen.
|
| Even when you have the diagnosis and medication, getting
| effective treatment can by itself take years. The person
| taking the medication needs to understand its effects and be
| able to tell the doctor, in a manner that makes medical
| sense, "no, this doesn't work" when it doesn't work. I, for
| instance, suffer from overwhelming bouts of uncontrollable
| rage when I take Ritalin. The resulting damage has never been
| inflicted directly on the people around me, but it has
| strained or broken relationships and cost me thousands of
| dollars, at times when those costs were particularly onerous.
| One might expect this side effect to be immediately obvious,
| but it wasn't. I figured it out years after it started.
|
| In turn, I had to notice for myself (a) that amphetamine
| salts are not the same thing as Adderall and (b) that I was
| incapable of functioning when I was taking them. I then (c)
| had to bring this up with my doctor, and (d) be able to point
| out that I had been fine six months prior, when I was taking
| brand-name Adderall XR (fortunately, because I have severe
| ADHD, I hadn't disposed of old rx bottles). She then
| discovered that my monthly urinalysis results had shown,
| since my pharmacy switched me to amphetamine salts, that I
| was excreting none of the expected amphetamine metabolites.
| As far as the urinalysis was concerned, I wasn't taking an
| amphetamine at all. ("Yes, dr, I have been taking the drug
| daily. No, I haven't been selling it.") So she then had all
| the information she needed in order to make the judgment that
| I needed a different drug.
|
| Effective treatment of psychiatric conditions, in other
| words, can depend to a great extent on the ability of the
| patient to recognize, evaluate, and demand effective
| treatment. Novice patients rarely know how to do that.
| dnate wrote:
| Or live in a first world country with decent healthcare.
| trollbridge wrote:
| Then your biggest challenge will be distinguishing yourself
| as not having drug-seeking behaviour to get access
| controlled substances.
| zahlman wrote:
| I was talking about Canada.
| malwrar wrote:
| > I don't mean to be a jerk, but I'm having trouble figuring
| out what the point of the post
|
| Well, it is the only post on this person's website, I bet they
| wrote this because they wanted to set up a blog and needed
| content. I thought their enthusiasm was heartwarming
| personally, imo the drive OP is expressing is the most
| important part of starting with CS stuff (maybe any hobby?)
|
| > or of posting the post here is
|
| Maybe they're uncertain deep down whether or not a 37 year old
| can actually learn computers? I have the same insecurity with
| learning to play piano.
|
| > Just keep on mind that you're probably not going to build
| these things from first principles
|
| Does anyone, truly?
|
| Really though, all of OP's aspirations seem reasonable to me, I
| think your post is a little too negative and discouraging.
| Making a HN-like webapp, esp for a small group, is a trivial
| demo exercise. The streaming device could just be a raspi in a
| custom case, but OP could go as far as building a custom board
| as their interests guide them. The education app and ecommerce
| sites are just further skill reinforcement w/ the HN site idea.
| OP even has ChatGPT to answer questions, I would have killed
| for someone or something that could answer my questions when I
| was learning.
|
| Mostly responding because I felt bad at the idea of OP reading
| this and thinking they're actually limited in achieving their
| goals. You're right to caution against taking on too big a
| challenge up front, but OP _can_ totally chase their curiosity
| and dig into details as far as they are drawn. OP, if I was
| you, I'd try to build a "quick and dirty" version of whatever
| project idea(s) most pull at your soul before you get too into
| the weeds, otherwise all that nitty-gritty detail just feels
| like mind-numbing trivia.
| globnomulous wrote:
| Thanks for writing this. I agree. I actually didn't mean for
| the post to be so negative. I really did mean what I said
| when I wrote that his starting point -- curiosity and
| eagerness -- are wonderful.
|
| Seeing the mention of ADHD set my thoughts on a rather
| different track. The lack of focus becamein retrospect much
| more the defining characteristic of the post -- to the point
| that the post itself doesn't seem to know what it is or
| wants, or at least fails to communicate that. (This kind of
| obliqueness is, to me, one of the hallmarks of ADHD.)
|
| But you're right that just as a statement of goals and ideas,
| the post is a wonderful start. And I forgot completely to
| include this: the fact that OP is self-taught is encouraging.
| That's basically all he needs. It's invaluable and will serve
| him well, regardless of what he decides to do.
| malwrar wrote:
| I totally missed the ADHD angle, I definitely see where
| you're coming from now. Here hoping at least one of OP's
| projects draws their interest enough to focus their
| exploration!
| ranger_danger wrote:
| > I don't mean to be a jerk, but
|
| Honestly, simply omitting that entire first sentence would have
| made the post seem a whole lot nicer.
| globnomulous wrote:
| That's an excellent point. Noted for the future. Thanks.
| iambateman wrote:
| Some advice...
|
| You can get one of these ideas _done_ at a basic level, including
| learning time, in about four months.
|
| Start with Laravel, use Livewire, and use Laracasts as a starting
| point.
|
| You got this!
| chickenzzzzu wrote:
| This is going to end poorly. The only semi reliable way to make
| money in this industry is unironically through grinding leetcode,
| still, in 2025.
| deadbabe wrote:
| Being a 37 year old _wanting_ to learn computer science out of
| personal interest is still way better than being a 22 year old
| who just learned computer science because they want an easy 6
| figure job in the tech industry.
|
| We turn away the latter more and more these days. In the past,
| hiring a junior software engineer meant you were probably getting
| an enthusiast of some sort, the kind of person who had their own
| side projects and crazy ideas they worked on for fun, and would
| stay up late into the night just coding. But now with the surging
| supply of new computer science grads, there's a lot of people
| that just want to log in, crush tickets, and go home. And AI is
| making it worse. They have no love for the science, just a steady
| paycheck. But the truth is that in this industry, if you really
| want to push the boundaries of what is possible, love is an
| important ingredient. And not just for your company, but for
| yourself.
| owebmaster wrote:
| > We turn away the latter more and more these days.
|
| We turn to jobs too fast, too. People starting to code at age
| of 37 should create companies, apps, tech, no count on a job.
| There are too many people in tech looking for jobs now, 20
| years ago a much bigger % of people in tech were creating jobs.
| diekhans wrote:
| https://www.norvig.com/21-days.html
| finnjohnsen2 wrote:
| If you want the most job opportunities I would bet on the web and
| database backend. Almost all mid to upper size businesses has
| some custom made web solutions which stores to an SQL Database.
| There are lots of sub-areas within this domain like cloud,
| security, different databases, scalability, authenticatin, front
| end and the list goes on
| SoftTalker wrote:
| I'd say focus on databases, especially as someone nearing
| middle age.
|
| Front end/web work is a treadmill. Web frameworks come and go.
| SQL and relational databases have been a foundation for
| applications since the 1980 and that is still the case today.
| The investment you make in learning something like Postgres
| won't be something you have to throw away in 5 years when the
| next hype cycle around a new framework comes around. Basically
| after 30+ years in software, the one thing that is still
| relevant and that I can still do well today is work with
| relational databases. I got tired of running the web framework
| treadmill and am now years behind whatever people are using
| these days.
|
| Edit: also linux/unix shell utilities. Awk, sed, grep, xargs,
| and others form a surprisingly capable toolbox for filtering
| and shaping data, and they all date back many decades. I've
| never had to throw away my experience using these tools.
| jamesgill wrote:
| An analogy:
|
| Jimi Hendrix never learned to read music. He did not know how to
| 'construct a chord'. He had no music theory training. He just
| made music, and learned what he needed along the way to make the
| music he wanted. He did this from scratch in less than 12 years
| (ages 15 to 27).
|
| TL;DR: computer science and 'building things' are two different
| things. _Let your urge to build things and your interests_ guide
| what and how you learn, not academic traditions.
| iwontberude wrote:
| I'm 37 year old wanting to unlearn computer science, let's make a
| deal.
| dickstrawng wrote:
| Yesssss the classic midlife Big O of Disillusionment. Don't
| worry -- unlearning computer science is only O(n2) if you try
| to forget recursion manually. Just start with garbage
| collecting your memories of pointers and work your way up to
| erasing all trace of Turing machines.
| bluesounddirect wrote:
| Honestly if i were to pivot from computers to anything else it
| would be a skilled trade. Electrician , Mason, Plumber in that
| order . My father was a electrical engineer but all of his older
| family/ cousins were Taylors , carpenters and in the general
| garment business selling clothes, Its not easy work but i toil on
| cs stuff and have nothing to look at, for a sense of
| accomplishment.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| Do you want to learn computer science or do you just want to get
| a job in tech? Because those are two very different things.
|
| Learning CS means starting with the math, particularly for folks
| long out of school (the famous quote, "Computer science is no
| more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes"). If
| that doesn't sound fun then you probably just want to spend your
| time with coding tutorials instead. CS is... a science. Software
| is engineering.
| pglevy wrote:
| What I took away from your post was not that you want to learn
| computer science but that you want to build things with software.
| If so, now is a really exciting time because it's never been
| easier for people without a CS background to go from idea to
| working software.
|
| As a UX designer, I've worked with developers for a long time, so
| I've picked up knowledge along the way. I've read some books and
| merged some PRs at work but nothing that would qualify me as a
| developer.
|
| What am I'm having a lot fun with right now though is building
| with LLMs. If I have an idea, I'll just throw it into Replit or
| Claude Code to see what it comes up with and then decide if I
| want to pursue it further.
|
| My 2 cents: learn by building. Start working down your list of
| ideas and dig deeper into questions and topics that come up. Will
| probably keep things more interesting than slogging through a
| course.
| seadan83 wrote:
| > If so, now is a really exciting time because it's never been
| easier for people without a CS background to go from idea to
| working software.
|
| If this means to "learn" by using a LLM, I would be so wary of
| that advice.
|
| Not learning CS was a shortcut many people took. Sometimes lack
| of time (ie: they haven't learned it yet), sometimes a lack of
| will. Either way, I feel that CS fundamentals is like a car
| mechanic knowing how an engine works. Tends to make for a
| better mechanic.
| andrew_lettuce wrote:
| This helps with building, but how does it help with the
| learning? You don't understand how it was built, how it works
| out how to change our support it without an LLM. this is a very
| specific, narrow way of building.
| pglevy wrote:
| That's fair. It depends on the goal. I'm not trying to change
| careers. And I didn't get that sense from original poster. I'm
| mostly interested in prototyping or addressing niche
| productivity issues. But I feel I learn quite a bit from seeing
| what the LLM does and asking follow up questions or looking
| things up. I've been around software dev a lot so that helps
| with knowing what to ask sometimes. My main point is if someone
| is interested in building software, they should start building
| as soon as possible. Don't feel you have learn everything
| first.
| RyanOD wrote:
| It sounds like you want to learn computer science but aren't
| planning to become a software developer. I think of this as
| similar to "I want to learn to play the guitar, but don't want to
| be professional musician"...to which I say - hell yes, go for it!
|
| We are similar in a few ways. I love to build things and I also
| spent the early part of my career as a mathematics / computer
| science teacher (mostly web development...HMTL, CSS, JS). After
| teaching for six years, I transitioned into business (marketing)
| and now I'm employed as a website manager where my understanding
| of high level coding concepts allows me to communicate with our
| development team, but I'm not actually writing the code (though
| in most simple situations, I probably could).
|
| To satisfy my need to build things and write code, I work on
| small, side projects. I recently built a near pixel perfect clone
| of Frogger with Pygame to better understand game design best
| practices and leverage ChatGPT for the first time (though, to be
| clear, none of the code was written by ChatGPT).
|
| My advice to you would be as follows...
|
| 1. Try to have a narrow focus so you aren't overwhelmed. Don't go
| into this with a "I'm going to learn EVERYTHING!" attitude. Have
| a specific focus.
|
| 2. There are a lot of fundamental "best practices" that need to
| be automatic. Build lots of smaller projects and doing so with a
| language like Python (so you aren't also wrestling with the
| idiosyncrasies of the language) is a good approach.
|
| 3. Of course continue working. If you aren't planning to be a
| professional software developer, is there another choice?
|
| 4. Use AI, but NOT to write your code. Rather, use AI to critique
| your work bearing in mind the responses you get aren't always
| perfect. And sometimes you won't realize that until a month or
| two later and that's ok.
|
| 5. Find others with similar aspirations to partner with so you
| can hold each other accountable. Going on such a journey alone
| has always doomed me. With life, family, work, etc, I've never
| been able to sustain my enthusiasm.
|
| 6. Writing some crappy, novice coded little nothing project thing
| is infinitely better than writing nothing. Movement is critical.
| Just keep coding. There will be good days and bad days, but don't
| stop moving.
|
| Feel free to reach out if you want to chat about my experience.
| As I said, I see a number of parallels. Best of luck!
| rolandog wrote:
| Early 40's and just made a switch from ChemEng to DevOps 4 years
| ago, after having been nerd-sniped into the field constantly
| while I wore "multiple hats" at Former Employer's (scope creep
| applies to job functions as well, huh?).
|
| I've been meaning to do a write-up or something, but there's
| never a right time. I'd write more, but I'm at a festival r/n.
| Hit me up if you want some (hopefully useful tips).
| gxs wrote:
| If you wanted to work on rebuilding engines or modding cars,
| would you go get your phd in physics?
|
| The answer actually is, maybe, depending on what you want to do.
|
| You'd certainly want to understand and have a strong intuition
| for physics, but knowing how to solve a differential equation
| isn't going to necessarily make you a better mechanic.
| Understanding the concepts of what you're solving might, but the
| raw technical calculus skill will most likely not
|
| I'm not saying this to discourage you, simply throwing it out
| there for you to keep in mind as you embark on your journey. A
| lot of the coding that happens day to day is SV is more akin to a
| mechanic working in the ship than a physicist in the laboratory
| (or in front of the chalkboard) and I guess it's just my way of
| saying to stay vigilant that what you're studying will enable you
| to achieve your goals.
|
| Only you know them and you very well may need extra physics for
| the type of work you want to do - definitely not saying that's
| not possible
|
| A lot of people in the valley make people feel like if they don't
| have a cs degree they aren't real coders and shouldn't be allowed
| within 50 miles of contributing code. Just so you know this is
| bullshit :)
|
| I've come across all types of devs - from high school drop outs
| to egghead Phds and I've seen awesome and terrible work from both
| camps
| suzzer99 wrote:
| I didn't start programming until I was 29 and it's been a great
| career. So 37 can't be that far off. If you have aptitude for it,
| something will probably work out.
| saejox wrote:
| I didn't draw a single piece of PNG until i am 38. Now i am about
| to release my second solo developed game. My art is nothing
| great, but a year a ago wouldn't even believe i could draw a
| single sprite.
|
| https://www.instagram.com/arcadenest_games/
|
| I find my age to be great period to learn new skills. It is never
| too late.
| therealdrag0 wrote:
| Not bad! Nit: I think your moon is a bit too rough on the
| edges. Did you try a smoother edge?
| andrew_lettuce wrote:
| I see people conflate computer science with computer programming
| regularly. If you are motivated to build things you probably want
| to pursue the latter, and dig in to understand how the things you
| use work. Maybe your want to go deeper academically in certain
| areas, but do you want to be motivated by real world application
| or theoretical underpinnings? True comp sci is a lot closer to
| mathematics than most people's think. Sometimes this is required
| for deep understanding of what you're doing as a developer, but
| rarely.
| tkcranny wrote:
| "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is
| about telescopes" -- Edsger W. Dijkstra
| hgomersall wrote:
| Maybe engineering the discipline to study.
| dickstrawng wrote:
| agreed as astronomy is not telescopes
| lisp2240 wrote:
| Nobody else will tell you the truth: nobody will ever hire you as
| a software developer. You will never get past the filter.
|
| I tried to enter the field at 35. I couldn't get an interview
| with a CS degree. I did everything right. Good GPA. Portfolio.
| Professional resume help. Sent applications for two years and
| heard nothing. Now I'm 45 with nothing to show for it. All those
| late nights studying coding interview questions and I never got a
| chance to try.
|
| The success stories you hear are people with friends or family
| members who get them through the door. Unless you know someone
| like this, give up now and don't waste your time.
| VirusNewbie wrote:
| What filter? Why would age matter at all on the filter?
| 1over137 wrote:
| Age matters because ageism is rampant. That's the filter.
| clickety_clack wrote:
| I did that at 27, and it took me about 5 years to get into the
| sphere of where I wanted to be. Best thing I ever did. Even today
| I was talking about how sad it would be to hit retirement and to
| never have truly done what I wanted in my life. Now I have none
| of those regrets.
|
| However, it was a hard road, and I travelled it when conditions
| for developers were much better. Along the way, I made some
| missteps, and followed the wrong path a few times out of sheer
| lack of industry experience. I had to make the kinds of mistakes
| you usually make at 22, but at that age everyone you know is also
| going through the same experience so it feels like everyone is
| going through it together. It's a lonelier road when everyone you
| know is hitting senior/executive/management/ownership level and
| you're back trying to figure out how to find your footing on the
| first rungs of the ladder. I didn't love the work I used to do,
| but I was becoming respected when I left it and would have done
| quite well, so for _years_ I had the constant nagging doubt that
| I had made the wrong choice and that maybe the grass wasn't
| greener after all.
|
| That's my experience. If you wanted advice (which you can ignore
| a la "wear sunscreen"), I'd tell you to keep your current job
| while you work on your passion projects. Try to get involved with
| dev meetups. You want to see if you want to become one of those
| people, and you want to see if the stuff you're doing gets any
| kind of traction. Meetups will help you figure out how to sound
| like a developer, which can be more important than it should be.
| You will have to fit in with developers to get past interviews if
| you're looking for a job.
|
| Whatever you decide to do, best of luck. I hope it all works out
| for you!
| rmason wrote:
| I'd encourage you, that's only a few years older than when I
| started back in the eighties. I began with desktop software and
| quite frankly there was a lot less to learn than you need with
| web development.
|
| I'd encourage you to find a local user group in your area. You
| need a few people that can help you avoid dead ends of which
| there are many when you are starting from a blank state. In
| general there are going to be a couple of people that enjoy
| helping people learn. I've run a local user group for a quarter
| century and I always have gone out of my way to help newcomers.
|
| My experience is that it is far easier than asking questions
| online. There are people for whatever reason love to criticize
| folks asking beginner questions. I have never understood that
| behavior but it serves to discourage people. I've experienced it
| myself when trying to learn something new and it is
| counterproductive.
| akomtu wrote:
| A comment above is right: what works for a 20yo college grad
| won't work for you. If I were you, I'd find my passion, an idea
| that I believe in, then find OSS projects on github that are
| aligned with my passion and start contributing. Slowly you'll
| build a reputation in that circle and friends who would vouch for
| you when you try to get a job. Because the today's reality is
| that unless someone you know invites you, you won't get a chance.
| dickstrawng wrote:
| Just a quick note before my post here: computer science and
| computer programming aren't the same thing. CS is more about
| theory -- algorithms, computation, logic -- while programming is
| a skill you can use with or without a formal CS background.
|
| That said, I know someone who started learning programming around
| 43. They enrolled in a local government-sponsored technical
| program that partnered with companies to offer internships. They
| trained hard, took an internship, and worked their way in -- even
| though it took them over 3 years before they saw any meaningful
| income.
|
| Now, about five years later, they're doing well: they've earned
| several certifications, built a strong cv, and landed work at a
| company with a big name. On paper, they look impressive -- even
| compared to me, and I've been programming since I was 13 and
| working professionally since 17.
|
| But here's the thing: that path takes grit. They didn't save much
| during those early years and had to stick it out for a long time
| before things clicked. Unless you've got real motivation and
| curiosity driving you, it might be a frustrating ride. If you do
| have that passion, though -- go for it. Just do it with eyes
| open, and don't expect shortcuts. this guy was passionate about
| money and he was always crap on interviews but he went through
| the internship route and now he's doing fine. I started at 13 but
| I didn't start making six figures until I was 20.
|
| Remember: Even Hodor could not clear an interview these days,
| despite being perfectly aligned to his job role, but he got hired
| long-term via practical execution. and well, spoiler alert- his
| fate is pretty much every programmer's fate. To be eaten alive
| by.... LLMs?
| markb139 wrote:
| 37 is young. Trust me, in a few weeks I'll be 60.
|
| My whole life I've known I was an engineer. However, for a great
| chunk of the early years I couldn't express that and did really
| badly at school.
|
| I just learnt at my own pace and eventually worked as an
| electronics engineer in the broadcast industry. Then quit that
| and moved into sw dev.
|
| One piece of advice is to just build stuff, fail and learn.
|
| Good luck
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| _> Most of my career though is spent as a teacher - teaching
| Math, Science and Computers to primary students._
|
| That tells me that you have had some fairly good matriculated
| schooling. I have been doing heavy-duty software engineering for
| decades, and am not qualified to teach math, science, or,
| surprisingly, computers, to primary students.
|
| "Computer Science" isn't really "programming." It's the theory
| behind things, not just implementation. I don't consider myself
| to be a "computer scientist," although I know a lot of the stuff
| they do. My focus has always been on deliverables. In some cases,
| that's more valuable for getting paid, in other cases (like in
| academia, or the R&D sections of companies), maybe not so much.
|
| I'm 63, and still learn new stuff every day. I choose to
| concentrate on deliverables, as opposed to theory, but that's me.
|
| I would suggest that if you want to be at the pointy end, then
| it's not really about delivering product. That's not always using
| the latest $BUZZWORD technology, or giving up, when it gets
| annoying and boring. For me, I find great satisfaction, in
| delivering end-user product.
|
| For many others, here, they are far more interested in developing
| theoretical lattices and engines; which is extremely valuable. We
| need all types, to advance the craft. You also get to play with
| the best toys.
|
| I would suggest thinking about what the end goal is, then
| focusing the learning on that.
| w10-1 wrote:
| Starting from work with high personal contact and trust (waiting,
| teaching) which cannot be outsourced, you want to move to work
| that is highly-technical, highly-ageist, first in line for
| disruption, with high barriers to entry, and highly-competitive
| (where you can compete with programmers world-wide for a job)?
|
| That's a recipe for soul-crushing long-term unemployment.
|
| TBH journeyman computer work today is plumbing with tools that go
| stale fast, or perhaps making tools to do the same thing better
| with less.
|
| By contrast, medicine is now the biggest employer, largely
| because it's difficult to automate that kind of personal touch,
| and b/c in the US the population is aging. While being a provider
| involves training & certification, there are a number of
| provider-adjacent jobs in logistics and related counseling (e.g.,
| genetic counselors, IT) where you can use your people and
| explaining skills. All of medicine now is highly technical, so
| there's plenty to learn, and that knowledge is much more
| interesting and relevant than CS or programming.
| libraryofbabel wrote:
| I don't disagree with your points, but the OP doesn't
| necessarily seem to want a job in the tech industry; he just
| wants to learn interesting concepts and to build things:
|
| > ...not aimed towards landing a job as a software developer
| autobodie wrote:
| Yes, I graduated with a CS degree at 37yo in 2021 and
| thankfully got in before the layoffs. My first advice would be
| dye your hair if it's turning gray and never tell anybody your
| age unless uou have to. Of course, your managers will know it
| anyway.
| burnt-resistor wrote:
| HN, Plex local media server + a torrent VPS box, Coursera, Etsy.
|
| Okay, any other questions? ;o)
| sonicvrooom wrote:
| 1. ASSEMBLY and how CPUs and human long and short term memory
| work, and how which networks in the brain exchange between these
| blocks (among others, but shhhh)
|
| 2. Math, Tensors (you'll get why later) and Matrix
| Transformations, and all that sin cos tan stuff
|
| 3. Ben Eater-ish stuff on YT because it's 2025 and Computer
| Science is about to (you are ADHD, so anything from 2 days to 7
| years) change without anybody noticing ... think AIs having a
| preference for certain voltage drops and materials ... ... ...
|
| 4. the while 37-year-old part is irrelevant because, again, it's
| 2025, and pretty much any PhD can be caught up with within 10000
| hours aka 3-4 years ...
|
| 5. you should start a reddit thread where people suggest stuff
| you SHOULD do instead of CS and thinking in general and some rich
| guy should hire some people to remind you of all those
| suggestions multiple times a day
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