[HN Gopher] Why I left my tech job to work on chronic pain
___________________________________________________________________
Why I left my tech job to work on chronic pain
Author : glasscannon
Score : 355 points
Date : 2025-07-04 12:50 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (sailhealth.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (sailhealth.substack.com)
| glasscannon wrote:
| I recently decided to go all in on addressing chronic pain - a
| condition which affects an estimated 1/5 adults in the US[1] and
| nearly the same proportion in my country of Australia.
|
| This is the first of several blog posts exploring this invisible
| condition.
|
| If you're passionate about this space feel free to reach out,
| thanks!
|
| [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7215a1.htm [data
| from 2021]
|
| -
|
| [Edit] Thanks so much everyone! Excited to get the next article
| out soon!
| eloycoto wrote:
| Awesome!I had two tumours in my hip and I lost around 90% of a
| few muscles. Pain is my friend since I started this journey,
| and I need to say, that learn how to deal with that should be
| the first treatment!
|
| I'll read this blog with love!
|
| Thanks
| j_bum wrote:
| Hi Dan, I wanted to share a few links to articles on pain and
| circadian rhythms that I wrote during my PhD. Would love to
| connect if you have any questions.
|
| [0] Circadian rhythms and pain:
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01497...
|
| [1] The disruptive relationship among circadian rhythms, pain,
| and opioids:
| https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/1...
|
| [2] Circadian rhythm disruption exacerbates pain behavior in
| male mice:
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03064...
| glasscannon wrote:
| Would love to connect/chat. Will read over these in the
| meantime.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Hi, thanks for the thread, what are the websites you follow the
| most to read about this topic ?
|
| Sometimes I wish there was a medHN
| glasscannon wrote:
| agumonkey I love this - maybe it's about time a
| wellness/health "HN" was started. We're living in a time of
| chronic health dysfunction and lack of clarity. DM (and/or
| anyone else) if you'd like to jam
|
| For my recovery my reading/listening was focused on people
| like Dr Schubiner, Alan Gordon and some folks in Aus like
| Lorimer Moseley.
|
| I'm engaging more in linking research studies in now as I
| experienced a lot of people (often not practitioners) making
| claims without links to evidence (likely to keep things
| simple), which made my logical brain skeptical orignally and
| slowed my entry to this field
| agumonkey wrote:
| Thanks for the answer, I'll ping you.
| go_elmo wrote:
| I did a 10 day insight-meditation retreat and experienced how
| pain is triggered by the mind first hand. This is impressive to
| me and id be curious what your perspective is
| tdn291 wrote:
| Great article, will watch your developments with great interest!
| twodave wrote:
| Life is pain, highness. Anyone who says different is selling
| something.
| mkoubaa wrote:
| Buddhist?
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| Dread Pirate Roberts
| RickJWagner wrote:
| Prince Humperdinck: First things first, to the death.
|
| Westley: No. To the pain.
| twodave wrote:
| Yes, and honestly probably the deepest line in the film
| (though plenty others are often quoted in my family).
|
| I think there is a lot of strength that comes from waking
| up and doing the "hard" thing, whatever that is. I've had
| injuries, unexplained health issues, mental health issues,
| high stress, etc. I have found that for me, at least,
| refusal to let these things break me and meeting them head-
| on has been a positive overall for my quality of life.
|
| To abstract it away some, I grew up hearing a lot of family
| members say things like, "I can't do X anymore because of
| Y." I just refuse to allow any of those damn Ys to kill off
| my beloved Xs, as far as I am able, despite whatever
| temporary pain or difficulty it may require me to go
| through. Sometimes telling the Ys to shut the hell up makes
| them go away completely. And when it doesn't, sometimes I
| just have to be okay "embracing the suck" in order to
| prevent the Ys from bossing me around.
| incomingpain wrote:
| >Pain Reprocessing Therapy
|
| I asked chatgpt to explain this to me and it did a poor job.
|
| Generally speaking in my friend group. Chronic pain used to be
| opiods; though long ago medical cannabis came along. I couldnt
| tell you how many people i know who arent stoners who got into
| the cbd thing and fully got off opiods. 1 addiction for another,
| but at least cannabis has far less negatives.
|
| >If you don't have chronic pain and you're just here for vibes
| and to see some cute brains, I really appreciate you .
|
| The problem, CBD never fixes the pain. ~8 hours later you need
| more.
|
| There's no business case for solving chronic pain. Here's my
| take.
|
| 1. There can be cases where there's something legitimately
| physically wrong causing chronic pain. In detroit I had a friend
| who got shot with birdshot, a tiny pellet was in his spine that
| surgeons didnt want to go after but there's no getting away from
| that pain. If this is the case, you're not seeking explanation.
|
| 2. There's stress/emotional pain. "The body keeps the score" by
| Bessel van der Kolk. He's big on EMDR and yoga. Your achilles
| pain and such absolutely could be, Probably something like
| 'change or abandonment' one of my favourites for yoga:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XhJ63OQ7Ww
|
| Do that 23 minute video and see if it helps.
|
| 3. Mindfulness meditation. Get into the most comfortable position
| possible. Dont move; and far more difficult dont think. Your mind
| will wander. If the pain is in your achilles. The only thing
| you're doing is monitoring the pain. What's the exact shape of
| the pain? Is it 4 inches long or is it only 2 inches? Is it sharp
| like a knife, or is it round in shape? Do you have any taste,
| smell, or sound from it? You need to wait as long as you have to,
| maybe it only makes a sound every 2 minutes, you have to wait and
| your focus is only on waiting for the sound and nothing else.
|
| 4. Yoga nidra or progressive muscle relaxation. Start at your
| toes, you try to flex the muscles to the maximum and hold for 5
| seconds, release. then do your feet, ankles, legs, every muscle
| has to have been flexed and held for 5 seconds. Then when you're
| done, you simply do nothing at all. dont even focus on anything;
| maybe your breath at most.
| glasscannon wrote:
| > The problem, CBD never fixes the pain. ~8 hours later you
| need more.
|
| 100%, medication plays a great role in providing comfort and
| support but it can be ineffective (and often harmful) if relied
| on solely for recovery from (neuroplastic) chronic pain.
|
| > There's no business case for solving chronic pain
|
| It seems some parties _may_ be incentive aligned (e.g. insurers
| in Australia) - though I 'm still navigating this space to find
| an approach which makes solving the root cause viable. Keen for
| your thoughts.
|
| > 1.
|
| Sorry to hear about your friend. This is often referred to as a
| structural diagnosis - i.e. where a knowledgable/proficient
| doctor has diagnosed there is legitimate tissue (nociceptive)
| or nerve (neuropathic) damage.
|
| > 2.
|
| Yep! This is what the series will be targeting, data points to
| a substantial percentage of chronic pain sufferers solely (or
| partially in comorbidities) being impacted by psychological
| disorder (otherwise known as neuroplastic pain / TMS / and a
| few other names!). There are a lot of causes and factors which
| have been shown in research to date, but largely it's adverse
| childhood experience, stress, personality traits, and more.
|
| Will check out that vid!
|
| > 3.
|
| Related to this, there is an exercise called somatic tracking
| which has helped many people (including myself) - during it
| people often notice pain shifting throughout your body. This
| was a big turning point for me seeing how my mind behaves in
| real time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw1D_UvzIDA
| incomingpain wrote:
| >It seems some parties may be incentive aligned (e.g.
| insurers in Australia) - though I'm still navigating this
| space to find an approach which makes solving the root cause
| viable. Keen for your thoughts.
|
| Ive been sort of part of this sort of approach before. I was
| sysadmin, not a suit. These do tend to work out.
|
| This is also the mechanism for how they squash and hide stuff
| that would cut into tylenol sales. Dont sell it, license it
| for periods of time is my recommendation.
|
| Or you seem to agree much with my post. Put it together. The
| chronic pain fixer upper place that takes in patients and
| explains these things and trains them. You hire the emdr and
| yoga folks.
|
| >Will check out that vid! Big fan of the body keeps the
| score.
|
| It helped me for sure. I really need to try EMDR but never
| have. Id bet it works great. Adrienne is one of my
| favourites, but the science actual says slow yoga is more
| effective; whereas she needs to go quicker for video length.
|
| >Related to this, there is an exercise called somatic
| tracking which has helped many people (including myself) -
| during it people often notice pain shifting throughout your
| body. This was a big turning point for me seeing how my mind
| behaves in real time.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw1D_UvzIDA
|
| 3000 year old religious ritual :)
|
| Its very interesting to me how science when i was young
| called this all hoo-haa pseudoscience but is now giving it a
| new name and saying it works.
|
| You know what's interesting, my post is pretty heavily
| downvoted. I wonder what people disagreed with.
| __turbobrew__ wrote:
| > 100%, medication plays a great role in providing comfort
| and support but it can be ineffective (and often harmful) if
| relied on solely for recovery from (neuroplastic) chronic
| pain.
|
| Medication can help you get out of a local maxima, sometimes
| with pain the issue is that your nervous system is
| hyperactive and just constantly firing which feeds back into
| itself in a positive feedback loop. If you can take pain meds
| and/or nerve blockers it can help break that loop and let you
| do things like go out and walk, exercise, live a life where
| pain is not always on the forefront of your consciousness.
| That in turn can let you get into a better state and break
| the local maxima and then you can wean off the meds.
|
| If however, you do not change your lifestyle/condition when
| on the meds things will not get better long term as your body
| will lose responsiveness to the meds.
|
| I am not a doctor.
| theshackleford wrote:
| I find CBD about as useful as a sugar pill for pain treatment.
|
| THC amongst its most _minimal_ side effects increases my pain,
| not decreases it.
|
| I would suggest everyone try everything that is open to them,
| but cannabis is not a miracle cure for every ailment.
| varispeed wrote:
| Are you talking about THC isolate? I found high THC full
| spectrum oils to be life changing. They don't "cure" pain,
| but fade it into the background noise. You can still feel it
| if you focus on it, but pain no longer consumes your
| attention. I found this to be the most debilitating problem,
| not being able to do anything because pain just constantly
| grabs your thoughts and imprisons you. Medical cannabis
| removes that aspect almost completely. Now, I found oil to be
| individual thing - I had to go through a half dozen of them
| before I found one that is actually working for me. It was
| discouraging at first, but I still had hope and once I found
| the one... I got my life back! I've been taking it for many
| years now. I don't have any side effects. I don't feel "high"
| etc.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > I got my life back! I've been taking it for many years
| now. I don't have any side effects. I don't feel "high"
| etc.
|
| That's fantastic! It's pretty much the goal for all of us
| right? Haha, so glad to hear it. I'm still on that road a
| little myself, but it is what it is.
|
| > Are you talking about THC isolate? I found high THC full
| spectrum oils to be life changing.
|
| I have tried it in pretty much all its forms. Flower, oil,
| lozenges, wafers, vape etc. If it has THC in any form, pain
| goes up. But it's not just pain, it induces within me sinus
| tachyardia and heart palpitations, no matter the strength
| or presence of other cannabanoids.
|
| However I have just had surgery again, which should relieve
| some pressure on my central nervous system, so it's likely
| ill try again at some point in the future. There has been
| some suggestion that my nervous system has been
| misinterpreting the affects of cannabis as a "threat"
| effectively. But i'm very early in the stages of recovery
| so probably not going to diddle with it for a while.
| cracoucax wrote:
| I've always found strange all the talk about using cannabis
| to manage pain. I've smoked alot of weed, well before all
| those talks promoting THC for this.
|
| It was my experience, and common knowledge in my circles at
| the time that THC made pain way, way worse, at least in resin
| form.
|
| Probably simply because you'll tend to isolate things and
| focus on them very strongly when under the influence, it
| makes you notice pain more. I remember toking some days after
| a knee surgery and regretting badly having done it. So much
| pain I hadn't noticed...
| theshackleford wrote:
| > Probably simply because you'll tend to isolate things and
| focus on them very strongly when under the influence, it
| makes you notice pain more.
|
| This is a very strong contender for why it increases my
| pain I think, and possibly why it induces some other side
| effects. I'm ok with my injury and how its changed my life
| for the most part, but when using THC i'd laser focus in on
| the pain, then from the pain to the cause and from there to
| "how unfair it is etc."
|
| Its hard to explain, but the work i've done to be ok with
| this disability is undone when I go near THC for some
| reason, and is when I tend to break down and lose my
| ability to be "stoic" about it for lack of a better word I
| suppose.
| incomingpain wrote:
| >I find CBD about as useful as a sugar pill for pain
| treatment.
|
| Same.
|
| >THC amongst its most minimal side effects increases my pain,
| not decreases it.
|
| I had green card before canada legalized and thc was my main
| go. Higher potency just meant less smoking needed.
|
| Alcohol was what increased pain for me.
|
| >but cannabis is not a miracle cure for every ailment.
|
| For me, I cant do cannabis at all anymore; but you'd be
| surprised how effective it is as a medicine for a lot of
| people.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > but you'd be surprised how effective it is as a medicine
| for a lot of people.
|
| Nah, I mean even for me, it had some positive impacts,
| again, allowing me to eat for instance. So i'm not blind to
| its capacity to be a positive force for many conditions.
|
| The problem is that it's really not a miracle cure without
| side effects for _everyone_ which a lot of people are not
| willing to entertain. There are people who simply refuse to
| accept that cannabis is not always the best, or even a
| workable choice.
|
| In my case for instance, despite the positive of an
| increased appetite, it increased my pain, it gave me heart
| palpitations, it gave me sinus tachyardia, etc. Despite
| this, cannabis users will argue with me and tell me I "must
| have been doing it wrong" or various other statements along
| those lines, rather than accepting that like any drug, the
| reaction and utility of it is down to the individual.
| ekianjo wrote:
| > Before moving forward - I'm not a doctor. Just a bit of a nerd
| with a blog. Please do not sue me or use these posts as a
| replacement for medical care.
|
| unnecessary disclaimer here. when it comes to chronic pain
| treatment doctors are mostly useless or even harmful, proposing
| surgeries or drugs that will do more bad than anything else
| because they have no interest in learning how to customize their
| approach and will parrot and prescribe what they heard from
| medical representatives. Remember, the opoids crisis was enabled
| by doctors in the first place.
| glasscannon wrote:
| Heavily agree much destruction has come from overprescription.
| With this note I'm just seeking to cover my bases and be
| transparent with readers who don't know me.
| qualeed wrote:
| It's not unnecessary to tell people you aren't a doctor when
| people may reasonably believe you are a doctor in the absence
| of such a disclaimer.
| ekianjo wrote:
| I was not focusing on the 'not. a doctor' part, rather the
| 'seek medical care' as being bad advice when dealing with
| chronic pain
| xyst wrote:
| It was enabled by doctors but they were deceived by Purdue
| Pharma and Sackler family. They also deceived the
| (understaffed) FDA, paid off researchers to get their exact
| wording approved. Purdue used their wealth and influence to
| launch a nationwide campaign and lobbyist group advocating that
| mistreatment/mismanagement of patient pain will lead to
| litigation.
|
| Those stupid pain face charts you see at hospitals, physician
| offices. Purdue marketing, nothing else.
|
| Everybody is shitty here. This is what happens when a market
| has loose regulations.
| ekianjo wrote:
| > it was enabled by doctors but they were deceived by Purdue
| Pharma and Sackler family.
|
| it was enabled by doctors accepting kick backs for the
| prescriptions (legal ones but still kick backs). And lets not
| forget that medical professionals are supposed to have eyes.
| When most of your patients get strongly addicted to the drug
| you are prescribing, you are supposed to ask questions not
| blindly follow what a company tells you.
| linhns wrote:
| I think he has to put that to prevent any crazy things from the
| law side. You have a great point on doctors there, no wonder
| why people lose trust in them after so many wrongs.
| nwienert wrote:
| As someone who had years of undiagnosable pain and after many
| years (and more than one doctor trying to suggest it was all in
| my head) I just want to say to anyone reading who has it -
|
| Don't let yourself be gaslit that it's all mental. It seems some
| do have that, but there are also many hard to diagnose and
| completely valid physical health conditions that cause terrible
| chronic pain. And don't give up on trying to find out what they
| are. Once I did, I was able to largely manage mine, and more
| importantly, to stop constantly questioning my own sanity.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Would you mind sharing a little detail about what the physical
| malady turned out to be, and why it took so long to diagnose?
|
| Sounds like an interesting medical mystery.
| marcinzm wrote:
| Not OP but similar story with someone I know. Five years of
| many specialists that always ended in "all the tests are
| negative so it must either be fibromyalgia or psychological."
| Doctors never helped but eventually they empirically found
| that abilify and rexulti in very low doses (ie: half the
| minimum) made it just go away. Empirically based on the
| reaction to various medications it was probably some type of
| dopamine imbalance or issue. There's other case studies of
| similar reactions to abilify and chronic pain but not many.
|
| Extra fun fact, a deep research AI nowadays will actually
| suggest this as one of the treatments given a few paragraphs
| of information on the symptoms/medications tried/etc.
| nwienert wrote:
| Dopamine can help autoimmune issues - if they haven't seen
| a rheumatologist I'd recommend it.
| nwienert wrote:
| Combination of two autoimmune conditions, one Ehlers Danlos.
|
| Actually EDS is interesting because it became a fad I guess
| on TikTok to claim you had it like Tourette's, further
| exacerbating the above issue.
|
| It's got a wide spectrum. My dad had it so lightly he was
| just considered "double jointed". I gained a further thing
| from mom's side, which seemed to interplay poorly. Spent
| 19-26 basically having extreme nausea and vomiting episodes
| every month or two, often having to go to the hospital to
| stop it. Had other weird symptoms and pains before that and
| during too.
|
| Did every scan, met tons of specialists. Kept getting
| referred down the GI side, had gallbladder removed for no
| reason.
|
| At one point I was convinced it was psychological. This was
| after a second doctor suggested it. It sent me down a dark
| path for a few years of trying to figure out what was wrong
| with me - didn't help my mental state was terrible from all
| the uncertainty, and I had developed anxiety about eating
| since basically any meal could end up in hours of extreme
| pain. I was a total wreck. Then it just cleared up finally at
| 26.
|
| It wasn't until years later I got the EDS diagnosis, and then
| a genetic test showed the other immune condition. When
| looking at the two lists of symptoms it was such an intense
| moment in my life, finally having closure.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > At one point I was convinced it was psychological.
|
| I ended up thinking the same thing after a prolonged period
| of symptoms that didnt make sense. I 100% began to think I
| was losing my mind and imaginging it. Turns out I had a
| spinal cord injury. The problem is, not knowing that for as
| long as I did ultimately _did_ impact my mental health in
| other ways.
|
| It was nice to find out ultimately that no, I was not just
| going insane.
| nwienert wrote:
| Cheers brother, not many people know that specific
| nightmare. Glad you're over it.
| fu-hn wrote:
| What were your symptoms?
| theshackleford wrote:
| It started as just pain. Mild at first, mostly in my arms
| and shoulders, like someone had yanked them out of their
| sockets. Over time, it got worse. Not constant, just...
| random, brutal spikes. One minute I'm fine, the next I
| move slightly wrong and I'm yelping like a dog, unable to
| lift my arms, turn my head, or function at all.
|
| I'd go to doctors, and try to explain. "Look, I know I
| seem okay now, but yesterday I literally couldn't move
| etc etc." Time after time they would just respond with
| some variant of "Patient is stressed, stress is inducing
| pain, patient should stress less." or "patient is
| overworked, should do less work, etc".
|
| This went on for over a year. I kept having these
| episodes, days at a time where I was barely functional.
| The pain, the immobility, completely real to me, but
| apparently all in my mind according to my doctors. "Take
| painkillers/antidepressants/rest etc etc." As a result
| eventually, I began to wonder if maybe I had just gone
| insane. Maybe this was all in my head and I was just
| imagining being in pain.
|
| Then things got worse. I suddenly had to pee all the
| time. My hands started losing dexterity. I began bumping
| into things, losing my balance, subtly at first, but
| unmistakably. It was no longer just pain, my whole body
| was going off the rails.
|
| After I woke up one day, completely unable to move, I was
| rushed to the hospital. Same story: they told me it was
| stress, maybe anxiety. I snapped. I told them if they
| discharged me without finding out what was going on, and
| I was later to find out that something had in fact been
| wrong, I'd sue everyone I had interacted with that day. I
| don't even remember exactly what I said, but I must've
| hit the right nerve, because they finally agreed to do an
| MRI, not to help me, but to shut me up.
|
| The scan finished. I never saw the general staff again.
| Instead, the next person who walked in was one of my
| country's top neurosurgeons. He asked, very calmly, if
| I'd please come to his office for an urgent (and free)
| consult, because the imaging contained some pretty
| serious findings that we needed to act upon immediately.
|
| Finding out I had not in fact being going insane...I
| burst into tears as the news was delivered. For so long
| i'd just been left to think I was going mad and here I
| was finding out that there were in fact very real reasons
| for everything I was experiencing.
| mkoubaa wrote:
| Technically it is an experience that is internal to the nervous
| system... but a doctor telling someone that it's imagined
| because they can't identify the root cause is criminal!! If we
| have to make something up about it we're literally better off
| calling it a demon.
| glasscannon wrote:
| Thanks for sharing this.
|
| Very much agree it's critical to get an accurate assessment,
| ideally from a doctor who understands pain science to rule out
| a structural cause. In saying this, I recognise many
| practitioners are not fully across this so I'm hoping this
| series will help increase awareness.
|
| This first blog is meant as a quick intro to the series - blog
| post #2 will break down the different categories of chronic
| pain (i.e. broadly including tissue, nerve damage and pain due
| to brain plasticity - what the series is primarily focused on).
| Aurornis wrote:
| > Don't let yourself be gaslit that it's all mental.
|
| I agree, though this is a very difficult subject. Often, the
| people who would benefit the most from psychosomatic
| interventions are often the most resistant to accepting those
| explanations. Meanwhile, many of the physical chronic pain
| sufferers I know have desperately tried various mind-body
| programs (without success) because they will try anything that
| might help.
|
| If people match the description of the author of this post and
| blog, where the pains are widespread, vague, and popping up
| around different parts of the body without explanation then you
| really should explore psychosomatic explanations like this
| author did.
|
| However, I'm growing weary of the trend of people who fit this
| description starting newsletters they want you to subscribe to
| (like this one), writing apps they want you to download/buy,
| and making comments implying that they know better than doctors
| about chronic pain (while putting an obligatory "not a doctor"
| disclaimer juxtaposed to their comments complaining that
| doctors don't know what they know). I think it's great when
| people share their experience, but it's getting tiresome to see
| it productized and generalized as a more universal explanation.
|
| EDIT: Another trend in this space is to productize by building
| an audience (please subscribe to my Substack) and then
| introduce the monetization plan later: A subscription app, an
| e-book, a partnership with some product. It's possible this
| person organically decided to quit their job, sell their house,
| and focus on writing a no strings attached Substack blog series
| to share information. However, I've seen this play out across
| enough health influencers that I recommend everyone stay
| cautious about people who claim to hold some information that
| will change your life but they need you to subscribe first. Be
| careful.
| glasscannon wrote:
| > and making comments implying that they know better than
| doctors about chronic pain (while putting an obligatory "not
| a doctor" disclaimer juxtaposed to their comments complaining
| that doctors don't know what they know).
|
| I am not claiming to know better than doctors whom are
| proficient in pain science/medicine.
|
| Rather, that most doctors are not adequately educated on this
| topic. If you ask the average doctor they will tell you how
| little it is taught in most medical education programs. Case
| in point, most pain sufferers will tell you how many doctors
| they had to bounce between before they finally got some
| answers/direction (if they were lucky).
|
| FWIW I was preparing for two months this year after I left my
| job to sit the Australian med school entry exam. Ultimately,
| I decided I would be able to help more people today, with
| tools readily available (including a computer and substack)
| than spending the next decade of my life preparing for a
| medical career.
|
| I would consider amending that part of my post to say
| something more narrow like "Not a pain doctor", but it seems
| more straightforward as it is now.
| matwood wrote:
| > Don't let yourself be gaslit that it's all mental.
|
| This is a big problem women have around menstrual cycle pain.
| "It's normal" is what many doctors say - particularly men. A
| woman I know was basically bed ridden for a couple days/month
| until she found a doctor who believed her and addressed the
| problem.
| NoTranslationL wrote:
| I make an app called Reflect [0] that's designed to track things
| like chronic pain and help you get to the root cause with self
| guided experiments. I've used it for my own pain symptoms,
| especially joint pain. Happy to answer any questions. Wish you
| the best on your journey.
|
| [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-
| anything/id64638...
| glasscannon wrote:
| Amazing, I'll take a look at it.
|
| Thanks!
| pbronez wrote:
| Another option for this is Bearable. I used it for headaches
| a while ago and it worked well:
|
| https://bearable.app/
|
| Here's an actual peer reviewed study evaluating a pile (over
| 1000!) symptom tracking apps, including Bearable.
|
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S245210942.
| ..
| glasscannon wrote:
| Awesome study - thanks for the link!
| Jonovono wrote:
| I've been using Bearable too. It's great and price is
| awesome, but data entry is so slow
| sydbarrett74 wrote:
| Thank you for sharing your story, and congrats on your endeavour.
| superb-owl wrote:
| related: https://x.com/mxslk/status/1940832698366619681
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| I've been dealing with chronic reflux for about 8 mos now. On
| PPIs and they don't seem to do much. But once I get away from my
| typical routine of work/dadding then all the symptoms vanish,
| even to the point of being able to eat foods that are not good
| for reflux: spicy things, tomatoes, a bit of coffee. In my case,
| this is absolutely a downstream symptom of something mind-body.
| Already been scoped and got a diagnosis of visceral
| hypersensitivity, which is medical speak for "nerves in esophagus
| are too sensitive."
|
| The question of why is out of scope.
|
| In this case, docs just don't know why. (I think it kinda pisses
| them off not know, tbh). And finding out is not really in their
| wheelhouse.
|
| I've made some life changes (new job) to see what happens here.
| But I also have to be prepared for the possibility that it
| doesn't fix it. Been working through The Body Keeps The Score as
| well.
|
| Looking forward to seeing what the author discusses here.
| justinrubek wrote:
| I seem to have something very similar going on. I'm on the
| early end of trying to understand it. Coffee was the first
| indicator because it'd ruin my day to drink some. I hope the
| best for us.
| johnisgood wrote:
| Have you tried H2 blockers?
|
| And as you have said, avoid anything that increases stomach
| acid production (such as caffeine or even tea, along with spicy
| food).
|
| You might also have success with Venter[1] (Sucralfate).
|
| [1] https://www.medicinesfaq.com/brand/venter
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Yep. I track which foods affect that and try not to stack
| them. In addition, I take famotidine in the evening with two
| different antihistamines.
|
| I suspect I have a histamine intolerance behind it all, as it
| tends to be comorbid with ehlers-danlos.
| johnisgood wrote:
| I have never heard of Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. Does it
| really cause histamine intolerance? You may try 1st
| generation ones.
|
| In any case, good luck and I hope you can find something
| that makes it manageable at the very least.
| fossuser wrote:
| For me, the two big things that help are losing weight and
| reduced anxiety. When either are high the problem is noticeable
| when both are low it's gone.
|
| Foods make it worse, but it's rarely an issue if I'm in decent
| shape and not stressed.
| xgb84j wrote:
| Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I have the _exact_ same
| issue as you since 2 years. It was much worse than what you
| described 2 years ago. Now it's just very annoying.
|
| The diagnosis I got from my therapist is PTSD from my chikdhood
| due to the strong connection between stress and body.
|
| The only thing I found that alleviates my symptoms short term
| is lots of Buddhist meditation (1-2 hours per day).
|
| I wish you all the best and thank you so much for sharing.
| ansc wrote:
| How'd you get started?
| xgb84j wrote:
| If you mean the Buddhist meditation: I joined a local group
| a few years ago. I wasn't super serious about the practice
| until I saw how directly it can improve my life. Even now
| it's hard to find this much time every day.
|
| This is a book that helped me getting started:
| https://www.amazon.com/Roaring-Silence-Discovering-Mind-
| Dzog...
| amelius wrote:
| I had this for years. Then I took vitamin K2 (about 50mcg per
| day I think), and after a few months it went away. No idea why,
| though. Anyway, happy that I can drink coffee again :)
| Micanthus wrote:
| FYI, The Body Keeps The Score is full of misinformation, and is
| alternately ignored and criticized by other psychiatrists
|
| > The most consequential problem with BKS is its promotion of a
| large number of treatments, outside of EMDR, that have limited
| to no evidence (e.g., massage, acupuncture, yoga, community
| theater, and neurofeedback), according to the latest treatment
| guidelines by the International Society for Traumatic Stress
| Studies (Frank et al., 2020), while simultaneously ignoring or
| criticizing PE and CPT, the two treatments with the highest
| quality evidence (Sakaluk et al., 2019).
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20250120164320/https://journals....
| glasscannon wrote:
| The link between the gut and brain (especially in the case of
| dietary intolerances) is an interesting one! Keen to see if
| others have come across good research in the space
| nickspacek wrote:
| Lots of anecdotal cures here, but I'll add Aloe Vera gel to the
| mix since it seems to help* both soothe/recover/prevent the
| return of my reflux symptoms for long periods of time.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Gel, as in, applied to your skin?
|
| I love smoothies with aloe Vera juice and freshly grated
| ginger. I've never felt such a powerfully calming sensation
| from ingesting something before. Can't tell if it's the
| ritual/association or the ingredients.
| eddythompson80 wrote:
| > In this case, docs just don't know why. (I think it kinda
| pisses them off not know, tbh). And finding out is not really
| in their wheelhouse.
|
| Chronic reflux as a symptom is almost always initially treated
| by PPIs because the cause among white collar workers is assumed
| to be chronic stress[1]. Since doctors can't "treat stress"
| only its symptoms, they will just tell you to try and manage
| stressors in your life yourself. Maybe suggest counseling but
| in general they are limited in what they can do. What they can
| do, if you are persistent in the complaint, is to just run
| through all the other less likely causes of it.
|
| I was lucky omeprazole worked for me the first time. I knew
| exactly what was stressing me out 24/7 and the acid reflux and
| frequent belching combined with the "pit in my stomach" feeling
| was all too common and connected around my main stressor. In my
| case, it started 8 months after accepting a role shift from
| engineering into management. I was cautiously excited
| initially, but it just soured very quickly. I would feel
| physical angst parking at work every morning trying to remind
| myself of all the web of political infighting "what our team is
| hiding from this other team", "who we can discuss what with",
| "how that other team is actively undermining us and their other
| downstream partners, but how we are circumventing that" how to
| 4d chess maneuver yourself in the most counterproductive ways
| possible. It was illuminating on where a lot of those special
| "business requirements" come from sometimes, but it just wasn't
| for me. Cutting that out was a massive relief
|
| [1]: Stress and glucocorticoids have well documented effects on
| the digestive system. I recommend the "Why Zebras Don't Get
| Ulcers" book chapter on stress and the digestive system.
| qzw wrote:
| Western medicine "can't treat stress" but Eastern medicine
| definitely claims to be able to. But then so do various
| nebulous "alternative medicines". Another comment mentioned
| deep meditation as being effective, and I believe there are a
| number of studies that have shown it to have actual effect.
| I'll add another tried and true stress cure but with a twist.
| Exercise has consistently been shown to help reduce stress,
| but I find that you have to pick an activity that's different
| than what you normally do, e.g. if you're a runner, try
| swimming or tennis. The goal is to actually _raise_ the
| stress level while exercising by doing something unfamiliar
| and therefore more challenging. In my experience, if the
| exercise is too relaxed or routine, it doesn't allow your
| mind to disengage from the other stressors that are causing
| symptoms. Of course, all this is pure anecdata from an
| internet rando.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > Western medicine "can't treat stress"
|
| This is false. Therapy is designed to do just this and it's
| readily available in different modalities that have been
| trialed and studied. You can book an appointment with a
| therapist today and start working on techniques to build
| stress resilience and stress handling techniques
|
| > but Eastern medicine definitely claims to be able to. But
| then so do various nebulous "alternative medicines".
|
| Much of the allure of so-called Eastern medicines is the
| feeling that it's ancient, semi-secret knowledge that is
| mysteriously superior to modern medicine. There are a lot
| of herbal medicines that kind of do something, but the
| effects are small and often prone to rapid tolerance build
| up and side effects. A large part of the efficacy is
| getting the patient to believe that the medicine and/or
| practices are a cure for their ills. Feeling like you're
| tapping in to a mysterious ancient solution to stress will
| encourage a very strong placebo effect, which can actually
| reduce the stress.
|
| Similarly, when we do randomized trials of medicines for
| depressive disorder it's incredible how much the placebo
| group improves. When people have been told they're
| receiving a treatment, it usually helps to some extent even
| if the treatment does nothing at all!
| sampullman wrote:
| I don't think the allure of Eastern medicine has much to
| do with a feeling that it's ancient or secret. It's
| pretty normal here in Taiwan to go to a TCM clinic here
| in Taiwan for various treatments, including stress. The
| practitioners have degrees and certifications for it.
|
| I can't say how much is placebo, but there isn't really
| anything mysterious about it.
| Aurornis wrote:
| The ancient and mysterious part is the idea that it's
| based on wisdom passed down through generations and
| herbal concoctions, as opposed to synthetic medicines
| tested in RCTs. This is precisely what draws a lot of
| people to it, and why it falls in the category of
| alternative medicine.
|
| It's actually very interesting that many of the herbal
| compounds they use do have some quantifiable biological
| activities. So it's not all placebo, but you'll also
| discover that many of the herbs being sold don't contain
| the ingredients they claim, don't contain enough active
| ingredients to do anything, or might even be
| contaminated.
|
| I once asked some doctor friends what things they'll
| never do after seeing the consequences in their patients.
| One of the most surprising answers, to me, was that they
| avoided TCM and Avurvedic medicines. Apparently they see
| a lot of people come in with elevated liver enzymes or
| signs of kidney problems and discover that some TCM or
| Ayurvedic herbal remedy is causing the damage.
| Discontinuing the supplement can stop the damage. This
| happens with megadoses of other supplements too,
| especially some of the things peddled to gym bros.
| However, TCM and Ayurvedic supplements seem to catch
| people by surprise because they assume it's safer.
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| > it started 8 months after accepting a role shift from
| engineering into management. I was cautiously excited
| initially, but it just soured very quickly.
|
| Thanks for the edit that added this. Very similar experience
| as this.
|
| It's BS that IC ladders top out at quasi-management roles,
| but perhaps part of the issue is believing that professional
| growth is as tidy as a FAANG career ladder (since most
| companies just copy them wholesale), and that not reaching
| those rungs reflects on me in any way.
|
| It feels a bit taboo to say, but I believe not everyone can
| flex into management easily, even part-time. I'm alright at
| it, but it clearly isn't long-term sustainable.
| eddythompson80 wrote:
| This was years ago now and I came to complete peace and
| acceptance with it. I don't view it as complete BS tbh.
| Here is how I look at it:
|
| First of all, there ARE more steps on top of the IC ladder.
| They are really really exclusive though in our industry. A
| large company needs thousands of managers, but only a dozen
| or so those positions. Half those people are really smooth
| talkers, and the other half are truly remarkable human
| beings. You can set it as a challenge to yourself to shadow
| and follow in that direction. It might take you another 10
| or 20 years and it might never happen.
|
| The reason I don't view it as BS is because there is a
| limit on the amount of value a single person can generate.
| At the end of the day "managers" are viewed as force
| multipliers. Their job is to direct and control the output
| of 10 people. A great manager can 2x or 3x the productivity
| of their team compared to just 10 aimless people with no
| accountability or structure. Paying that person 2x or 4x is
| justified. Your entire career in management, from M1 -> CEO
| is all about trying to convince the one above you that you
| are a bigger force multiplier than others in your position.
| That's basically your job.
|
| As an IC, you need to be someone who has had a track record
| of founding and delivering multiple highly profitable
| products/business/features/etc. Otherwise, you did, in
| fact, hit a ceiling of sorts.
|
| From FAANG prospective, for an IC there is a sweet spot
| between their technical seniority, output vs burnout, and
| their compensation expectations/asks.
| qzw wrote:
| > I think it kinda pisses them off not know, tbh
|
| Oh definitely. Some doctors are physically incapable of
| uttering the words "I/We don't know." I know a few doctors, and
| have asked a couple of them about this. In private, they're
| very frank about the limits of modern medicine. But in front of
| patients, they're afraid any sign of uncertainty will lead to
| patients concluding that some other quackery is just as good as
| actual medicine. I can definitely understand their perspective,
| but it does sometimes make them come across as arrogant know-
| it-alls.
| qualeed wrote:
| > _But in front of patients, they're afraid any sign of
| uncertainty will lead to patients concluding that some other
| quackery is just as good as actual medicine_
|
| This, but also in particularly litigious countries like the
| USA, they have to be extremely careful of opening up
| lawsuits.
|
| A doctor saying " _I don 't know_." followed by a bad patient
| outcome has a pretty high chance of being a lawsuit.
| rendaw wrote:
| I'd be fine with that if the posturing didn't go along with
| unnecessary medication and the lack of suggestions to search
| for treatment somewhere better equipped.
| ruthvik947 wrote:
| I had this for about a year, and it really only went away when
| I quit my job. It wasn't even a particularly demanding job, but
| I guess the lifestyle + the fact that I felt I was wasting my
| life away might have played a role. Nothing else is really
| different.
| anonymars wrote:
| Most people are familiar with the Peter Principle where it
| talks about people rising to their level of incompetence.
|
| But I think there's still plenty more that makes it worth a
| read. For example, something along the lines of, sometimes a
| man will pop an antacid and lament that their illness is
| negatively affecting their work, when in fact the causality
| is exactly reversed
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| I have had near-debilitating non-GI physical symptoms when it
| was time to leave a job in the past. I might just be bad at
| responding to those before it gets to be a five alarm fire.
|
| Worth mentioning is I got the same symptoms (tendinitis) a
| few months prior to this, but went to PT and got them
| resolved. Bodies/minds are fun!
| PixelForg wrote:
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9550520/
|
| This exercise fixed it for me. I was diagnosed with GERD last
| year, I already had it for 2-3 years before that, but it got
| worse last year. I got ppis for a couple of months and when I
| finished all of them it came back worse. Fortunately I found
| this article, and I started doing the exercise daily morning
| after I woke up(and still do it). I can now eat tomatoes, food
| with mint, spicy food etc etc :) I have shared my experience
| with others and it helped them too
|
| Edit - Changed the link, had posted something else by mistake
| jrgoff wrote:
| Thanks for this - it looks interesting, I'm planning on
| giving it a try for my low level reflux that's been bothering
| me for over a decade (but always had other health issues that
| seemed higher priorities to try to address).
| ProllyInfamous wrote:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42528399
|
| Since reading the above HN comments, I have lost ten pounds
| and (mostly) stopped drinking carbonated beverages. My GERD
| is vastly reduced.
|
| C/C/
| mattgreenrocks wrote:
| Thanks for this, will add it to the experiment queue while
| I work on losing the slight dad bod I have going on.
| grep_name wrote:
| I don't see anything about carbonated beverages in those
| comments? I've had good results with some of the exercises
| mentioned there, but since then have been in a rut unable
| to make it stop (my only symptom of GERD is a small
| persistent cough, which sucks more than it sounds like). I
| drink a lot of sparkling water though. Do I need to give
| that up too?
| vjk800 wrote:
| How did you implement this? I can't figure out what these
| instructions in the article mean: "Exercises of dry
| swallowing in the bridge posture lasted for 4 weeks and were
| performed ten times per day (Fig. 2). The exercise was
| performed with 10-s intervals between swallows."
|
| Does this mean that total number of daily dry swallows in
| bridge position was 10 or 10 times 10 (100)?
| PixelForg wrote:
| You get in the bridge position. And then swallow, wait 10
| seconds, and swallow again. So total of 10 times, I'm not
| sure if I could have kept up with it if I had to swallow
| 100 times :)
| rendaw wrote:
| That looks interesting, and can't hurt. So you do 1 set of 10
| reps (swallows) a day in the morning? I'm surprised that just
| swallowing 10 times can provoke any sort of physiological
| change...
| wincy wrote:
| All of my reflux went away last year when I started tirzepatide
| via my Zepbound prescription. I was having horrible heartburn
| daily and it's just completely gone. I used to take tums and
| omeprazole literally daily, now it's basically never.
| globnomulous wrote:
| Just a sidenote: GERD can lead to Barrett's Esophagus
| (precancerous changes in tissue), and erosive damage to the
| esophagus can accumulate over time and abruptly become life
| threatening. After decades of terrible GERD, my father nearly
| died from exactly such an undetected gastric bleed, losing
| 11/12 of his blood (which doctors replaced as it coursed out)
| before an emergency-medicine team finally found and sealed the
| rupture.
|
| He almost certainly suffered minor brain damage during this
| episode, and later, after about a decade of taking anti-
| protonic medications for reflux, developed exactly the
| abnormally rapidly growing abdominal cancer that patients who
| take anti-protonics apparently develop at a higher rate than
| similar GERD patients who don't.
|
| I don't mean to give medical advice. I can only describe what
| happened in my family (which has a heritable deformation in the
| esophagus, leading to severe GERD). Take it with a grain of
| salt (and an antacid) as what it is: an anecdote from some
| anonymous nonexpert on the internet.
|
| Anyhow, good luck. I'm glad to know you're working actively on
| the problem, not ignoring it as my father did, and I hope you
| find some long-term relief and peace.
| amai wrote:
| Sleeping on a inclined bed can help with GERD:
|
| -https://www.healthcentral.com/digestive-health/acid-
| reflux-e...
|
| -https://www.refluxguard.com/the-acid-reflux-game-changer-
| sle...
| snozolli wrote:
| I had terrible acid reflux at night when I was in my 20s. It
| was awful. I was getting a couple of hours of sleep per
| night, then waking up in terrible pain, stuffing down plain
| yogurt under a doctor's orders, and sitting up on a sofa for
| the rest of the night.
|
| Putting my futon on a sheet of plywood with two concrete
| blocks under the head completely solved the problem within a
| few days. It takes a while to adapt to sleeping on an
| incline. I kept it up for about a year, then went back to a
| flat bed. I've never had acid reflux again.
| Chyzwar wrote:
| For me intermittent fasting after 6pm and small diet changes
| fixed my acid reflux. PPI were not helping and making things
| worse. I actually took Betaine HCI supplements to fix digestive
| issues after PPIs.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > For the next 4 years, I continued to accumulate weird and
| persistent pains in different parts of my body.
|
| Anyone who is accumulating weird pains in random, different
| locations should definitely pursue some of these alternative
| explanations. Another sign that these techniques are appropriate
| is if the pains come and go depending on your mood or situation
| (worse when working, disappear when doing something fun) or are
| prone to suggestion (someone talks about their back pain and then
| you have back pain for the following days or weeks).
|
| However, I'm also getting tired of the people who benefit from
| this techniques deciding that their explanation for chronic pain
| covers everyone. It's a huge trend in parts of tech Twitter right
| now to apply these theories to all chronic pain. A small number
| of people who had unexplainable pain and addressed it through
| meditation, therapy, and similar techniques are now pushing it as
| a far more universal explanation. It really needs to be applied
| to the appropriate situation, not used as a universal treatment
| for chronic pains.
|
| This parallels similar trends with topics like PTSD, where a
| smaller group of people have benefited from therapy that
| addresses past trauma and now they're trying to export the theory
| that past trauma and PTSD is the explanation for all
| psychological ills. Again, matching the right treatment to the
| condition is critical and being open-minded is important, but
| beware of people who are preaching that doctors are misinformed
| and you should subscribe to their app, blog, newsletter, or
| course instead.
| glasscannon wrote:
| On your first point, the moving of symptoms is not uncommon in
| patients with chronic pain - and yes definitely a sign
| something not normal is going on!
|
| On the second, I've mentioned it elsewhere in this thread (on a
| different comment) that it's critical to determine if a
| structural cause is at play (i.e. tissue/nerve damage or
| something else causing inflammation). It is unfortunate however
| that many doctors are not familiar with modern pain science so
| I'm hoping spreading awareness via patients (and some
| practitioners) will change this.
|
| In the next few blog posts this very thing will be discussed
| (i.e. exploring when it's likely something is mind related vs
| the body [though I will focus primarily on the former in this
| series] - as you're 100% correct sometimes it's the body and
| sometimes it's the mind, and sometimes it's both!).
| bravesoul2 wrote:
| r/cfs ... those are the wise sages. They've heard it all. They
| know what to do. They know the BS. They warn each other about
| it.
| smj-edison wrote:
| That they do. I've been working through chronic fatigue for
| six years now, and I spent two years thinking it was somatic.
| No amount of meditation, therapy, socializing,
| antidepressants, or supplements made a dent. Thankfully I
| found my way to r/cfs which has fantastic advice on dealing
| with long-term chronic illnesses. It's a little depressing,
| but also freeing to accept that there truly is no cure to
| these horrible illnesses (there should be, but there still
| isn't). I'm glad I ruled out somatic symptoms so I'm sure
| that it's not that, but I'm also glad that I now understand
| that a lot of chronic fatigue is 100% biological. If I ever
| recover I plan to go into biochemistry to help all of these
| people who truly cannot be cured with today's technology.
| aspbee555 wrote:
| I felt like I was dying at 35 years old, my body was completely
| betraying me, exhausted, constant pain, no life as absolutely no
| energy on days off and still exhausted starting the next week.
| Even years in the Army never left me feeling like that
|
| I had no idea it was the misery of the IT job that was causing
| most of my pain and suffering, and it had nothing to do with the
| job itself, it was the endless insanity of everyone else around
| me doing exactly what they were informed would cause problems
| instead of having discussions with people that actually knew how
| shit worked. I was endlessly picking up everyone elses mess and
| treated worse than a pile of shit all because people were
| incapable of having a speck of respect for other people since all
| their hatred for computers fell on me
|
| I GTFO of the career of misery and took half a decade to finally
| start feeling better
|
| I have now spent years and countless hours working on software
| and I greatly enjoy doing this work again and find I get even
| more done than I used to simply by doing life the way I need to
| instead of how some backwards/abusive control freak "needs it
| done"
| vertigolimbo wrote:
| So you went back into software development after 5 years? Maybe
| you had a burnout and just needed to rest
| imhoguy wrote:
| I read it that OP has left IT and rested then got back to
| some freelance/co-op/own softwate development.
|
| I am on the same fence, just on my notice period in the shit
| show called corporate IT where there is 90% time spent on
| toxic politics.
|
| Now dreaming to burn some savings, detox and then play with
| Raspberry Pi projects.
| aspbee555 wrote:
| I have worked with computers for decades, I love it, and for
| me to not even want to look at a computer was impossible for
| me
|
| I made it through the Army (decades ago), I ran my own
| company, handled employees, etc. I have no problem with hard
| work and stress. My joy for computers was destroyed for a
| while, and it had nothing to do with the work itself, it was
| due to targeted intentionally malicious discrimination from
| the top
| foobiekr wrote:
| What do you do for a living post-escaping the IT career?
| aspbee555 wrote:
| I did part time work as a mentor which was way more
| fulfilling than the IT work. I eventually found my way back
| to programming my own project
| soVeryTired wrote:
| Roaming a labyrinth and savaging young Athenians might seem
| like a positive change in the short term, but ultimately
| it's probably just as unfulfilling as corporate IT.
| aspbee555 wrote:
| The mentoring was amazing when I started, but
| unfortunately the company was bought/sold and things
| unfortunately went downhill from there (corporate profits
| rarely coincide with providing actual help and is more
| designed to make paperwork/justify spending the precious
| numbers. I was great at the actual job, sucked at the
| medical paperwork)
|
| I am thrilled I got to help some kids in need of
| help/understanding/acceptance at least and seeing the
| joy/results first hand is something I will never forget
| refulgentis wrote:
| Do you have any more universal stack ranking / ruling out
| re: career paths? Bonus points for more epic phrasing: it
| didn't really hide that the subjective opinion is
| objective fact, but, I think there's a better chance I'm
| fooled into living someone else's life if you do it
| again.
| e40 wrote:
| Stress is so damaging to our bodies. Glad you got relief!
| mdavid626 wrote:
| Can you tell us how you recovered?
| aspbee555 wrote:
| overall it took time away from all that to recover, I also
| changed careers for a while to more fulfilling part time work
|
| I have always had a passion for computing so I eventually
| found my way back with a project of my own
| reactordev wrote:
| Sometimes it requires taking a step back to move forward.
| Healing takes time. There's so many odd jobs, side hustles,
| or simply - working a no-brainer warehouse job, for you to
| find yourself again.
| c0brac0bra wrote:
| I'm kind of in the middle of this phase. Chronic stress
| and pressure leading to autoimmune disorder, insomnia,
| etc.
|
| Completely getting away from software dev will make it
| hard to support a family.
| trts wrote:
| experienced something very similar. thought I would leave my
| field permanently out of frustration and despair. I like my
| work now, but faced with that burnout again do not think I
| could power through it a second time.
|
| Apropos, I had chronic pain throughout this experience. I
| thought it was just aging, irreversible, and something that
| compounded my hopelessness. It's very surprising to be 10 years
| older now but feel 20 years younger. Books like "The Body Keeps
| the Score" or "Healing Back Pain" used to seem woo to me, but
| now I am convicted that health comes from within as much or
| more than it does from without.
| kalkaran wrote:
| I had sciatica for years and inflation in my hips so bad I
| could barely walk 500 meters while in college. Basically only
| kept going by iboprufen, naproxen and paracetamol. I tried
| everything. Acupuncture/LSD/ultra sound/kiro/physio/yoga had
| mri's/xrays/you name it I had dr. Sarno's healing back pain
| for 2 years on my shelf before I took a holiday and read the
| whole thing in one go. Fell asleep for 4 hours and woke up
| pain free for the first time in 7 years. Started to come back
| a few times but I would just read the book again and go for a
| run. Been smooth sailing for 10 years now.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| I ended up in a similar situation last year. Amazing job, but
| typical startup stresses combined with some situational stuff
| in my personal life (moving, new jobs for partner, kids, day-
| care changes, etc, etc, etc) left me completely broken. I ended
| up leaving my job to take care of my family (thought I was done
| with my career, but it ended up being a sabbatical - back at
| the old job and doing great now)
|
| It took about 6 months for the brain zaps to start fading. Then
| another 6 months for me to start feeling capable of really
| doing my job well. I'm 18 months into "recovery" and I still
| think I have another 6 to 12 months before I feel like my old
| self again (so about 2 to 2.5 years in total).
|
| Time is really the only solution. You can't just think your way
| through it. You have to left your body's rewards systems re-
| adapt and re-learn how to be a healthy, happy human.
| andai wrote:
| My grandfather said he experiences stupidity as physically
| painful. I suppose pain is an indicator that some kind of
| damage is actually occurring.
|
| That's my experience at least, that it's not healthy to be in
| environments like that for any length of time. In such a place,
| my regret is always not leaving sooner...
| sizzle wrote:
| I was thinking Lyme disease caused fatigue from the lead in
| sentence
| baby wrote:
| BTW I can relate but to me this was the savior:
|
| - taking sport seriously
|
| - regaining control over my life (which I did by creating a
| startup)
|
| - moving to a city that cares about walking pedestrians and
| social life (moved from SF to New York!)
| Adrig wrote:
| I've dealt with chronic illnesses for the past 10+ years now.
| It's such a hard path.
|
| I recently found out after a violent burn-out that a significant
| cause was chronic stress and its psychosomatic symptoms. It made
| me have a hard look at the topic, and I'm gradually adjusting to
| solve the issue.
|
| If I get better, I'm tempted to do as OP and spend more time
| working on this issue for others. It seems so much more impactful
| than grinding the tech / startup life.
| glasscannon wrote:
| Feel free to get in touch if you'd like to chat Adrig (my
| contact is in my profile), wishing you the best of luck.
| accrual wrote:
| > I recently found out after a violent burn-out that a
| significant cause was chronic stress and its psychosomatic
| symptoms.
|
| Thanks for sharing. I am walking down this path as well. In my
| experience I can tell I'm deeply out of alignment and it wreaks
| havoc on the body. My soul says to X but my mind says do Y,
| it's safer, maintains a stable status quo, income, and
| relationships, etc., even though it's slowly killing me.
| Adrig wrote:
| It's definitely a difficult time to deal with these issues,
| especially when the world appears so unstable. But we
| eventually have to face the music one way or another. Best of
| luck!
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I was just talking to a friend of mine, yesterday, about what
| happened to me.
|
| In 2017, I was laid off of my job (of almost 27 years). I
| immediately started looking for work. Since the company I worked
| for, was a marquee-name company, I assumed that it wouldn't be
| hard.
|
| Boy, was I in for a shock.
|
| I almost immediately learned that _no one_ in tech, is interested
| in hiring a 55-year-old, regardless of their pedigree. I could
| have gotten a job, but those companies made it clear that I would
| be treated quite badly.
|
| So I made the decision to just throw in the towel and retire. I
| had the means, but I would have liked to have at least another
| ten years of salary. I have never had any intentions of stopping
| working, though. I _love_ developing software. It 's a hobby and
| a personal passion; not just a job.
|
| I was _really pissed off_ at the treatment. I suffered great
| butthurt.
|
| But in the long run, it's the best thing that ever happened to
| me. I never realized how much stress I was under, while working.
| I sincerely believe that, if I had kept working, it would have
| killed me. I have no intentions of returning to the rodent rally;
| even though I'm quite good at what I do, thanks to all the
| learning that I've done, in the last eight years.
|
| I now work every day (my GH Activity Graph is quite green), and
| do a fairly good job on my chosen projects, but I no longer feel
| that awful weight on my soul.
|
| Sometimes, the only way that we learn how much pain we are in, is
| to stop suffering it for a while.
| tossandthrow wrote:
| As someone who will, eventually, hit that age, I would love to
| hear more about that treatment?
|
| My own impression is that the software industry is one of the
| industries where experience and qualifications are completely
| divorced.
|
| So from my perspective one is really always back at square 0
| when looking for jobs - including the need to prove oneself and
| stay humble.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Well, I found that independent recruiters were the worst.
| They all ghosted me. A couple actually hung up on me, as soon
| as they learned my age. In-house recruiters and managers were
| much better, but the interview process generally derailed, as
| soon as one single tecchie got involved.
|
| I actually had one refuse to look at my [extensive] code
| portfolio, because "I probably faked it." One of the luxuries
| that I had, which I am eternally grateful for, is that I
| don't have to eat shit.
|
| If reacting badly to that kind of treatment is "not humble,"
| then guilty as charged.
|
| I should add that I am a high school dropout, with a GED, and
| no matriculated education. Despite that, I ran a "skunkworks"
| team, employing some _very_ good engineers, and was kept on
| by a _very_ demanding Japanese corporation, where I was given
| an insane level of trust.
|
| I'm pretty used to having to prove myself. I've spent almost
| my entire career, looking up noses. Someone with my
| background won't make it far, unless I know how to work well
| with un-humble people, and deliver the goods. I never was
| given much latitude. I wasn't really allowed to fail.
| pregressicko wrote:
| >> I almost immediately learned that no one in tech, is
| interested in hiring a 55-year-old, regardless of their
| pedigree.
|
| My comment is off topic but I have to chime in: while I'm sad
| to hear of your bad luck, this is YOUR experience, and it is
| not universal.
|
| At 54, I got my highest paying job ever in tech after being
| walked out of a "marquee-name" company after 24 years. This was
| three years ago. There is a tremendous need for senior
| engineers in smaller companies. The main reason is that all the
| A+ engineers (clearly I am not one!) have retired from decades
| of fat equity compensation, and those of us at the B+ level (or
| me who financially screwed up) are actually now a rare
| commodity.
|
| So hang in there, greyhairs are still valuable to smaller
| companies.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Fair point.
|
| I should say that I wasn't particularly interested in a
| "good-paying" job. I was set, already.
|
| I wanted something that I found interesting.
|
| The places that would hire me, had crappy work.
|
| The places with the interesting work, had no interest in
| hiring me. Saying that it's because oldtimers are expensive,
| is a red herring. I would have happily taken half of what
| they pay people with half my expertise.
|
| In any case, it's all good, now. I have no interest in
| returning to work. I'm having way too much fun, working
| harder than I ever did, without managers pissing all over my
| work.
| quicktemp42 wrote:
| I've been struggling with chronic pain for almost eight months.
| It started when my orthodontic treatment caused the root of one
| of my teeth to break--it had already been weakened from a
| previous injury. The extraction was straightforward and only took
| 10 minutes, and I had an implant placed (with a temporary crown
| attached to my braces). Healing went smoothly, and the CT scans
| looked fine.
|
| But soon after, I developed constant headaches that never went
| away. At first, I assumed they were related to the procedure, but
| everything had healed well, and multiple check-ups didn't reveal
| anything. Since then, my braces have been removed, but the daily
| headaches persist. Occasionally, I also feel a strange "foreign
| object" sensation around the implant site.
|
| A follow-up CT scan of the implant showed perfect integration
| with the bone. I've also had other tests done, including a head
| MRI. Medically, everything appears normal.
|
| It's getting really hard to manage--painkillers don't help at
| all. Has anyone experienced something similar or have any idea
| what to try next? I'm even considering having the implant
| removed, despite there being no medical reason for it.
| accrual wrote:
| Not a physician but how long have you had symptoms for? I've
| had dental work that took much longer than expected to heal.
|
| The pulp in the teeth are quite sensitive and can inflame
| easily, and that inflamation has nowhere to go (being bound by
| the hard sides of your teeth and jaw), which can lead to
| constant pain. I once had a routine filling that took about 3
| months to stop aching and I had to take ibuprofen every day
| during that time to be able to focus. Per the dentist, constant
| aching pain = it's slowly healing, leave it alone. Sharp
| intense pain = pulp is dying, need root canal. Granted, this is
| pain the mouth and not in the head like you described.
|
| If it's been a while and it's still bothering you, I'd
| definitely consider having it removed too. It would suck to
| remove it and still have the headaches, but at that point you
| can start looking at other causes.
| quicktemp42 wrote:
| It has been eight months and there is no tissue damage.
| Allergic reactions to implant materials are rare and usually
| stop an implant from fusing with the bone, but mine has
| integrated perfectly. I would consider removing it, except it
| is my upper central incisor... I kept waiting for braces to
| be removed etc but I'm running out of options now.
| accrual wrote:
| Painful! Definitely seems long enough to fully heal, plus
| you've already done the imaging (CT, MRI) which would be a
| best next step. Maybe you could try another specialist,
| though it sounds like you've already done everything
| correctly and in sequence. I hope you can find relief.
| quicktemp42 wrote:
| Thanks, it's not as bad as for some ppl but made me
| really rethink what's important in life and I'm 42 lol.
| Random event you can't control can be life changing. I
| have 3 more things on the list to try: - diagnostic temp
| nerve block around implant - bite / occlusion specialist
| - some blood work for those rare allergies (super
| unlikely but why not...)
| kianN wrote:
| "As pain becomes chronic, it is increasingly associated with
| activity in the affective and motivational systems tied to
| avoidance and less closely tied to systems encoding nociceptive
| input" [1]
|
| I've been on the slippery slope of chronic pain. Minor post
| surgery issues caused me to change my routine and avoid certain
| activities which only exacerbated the issues, which led to more
| avoidance. Eventually I couldn't walk.
|
| The American medical system is very focused on avoiding health
| issues that show up on mri, rather than quality of life health.
| But quality of life issues quickly become serious.
|
| I think the middle ground of activity: not all out intense as if
| you are healthy, but also not avoiding movement is so challenging
| to find for many people but also so crucial. A lot of chronic
| pain for myself and I suspect for many others could be avoided
| with short and quick combination of therapy and daily movement.
| So simple but so challenging to effectively identify and allocate
| resources.
|
| Not suggesting this is the total solution but it's the pathway
| that I took to return to activity and I've seen it help a number
| of my friends as well.
|
| [1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8482298/
| kccqzy wrote:
| > Minor post surgery issues
|
| My wife has had two surgeries and each time she had a minor
| post surgery issue. One of them was an area that was tender to
| touch; another was chronic pain. Neither was mentioned as a
| possible side effect of the surgery by the surgeon. The main
| takeaway even if a bit extreme here is avoid all surgeries
| unless absolutely necessary.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Depending on the underlying issue, delaying a surgery could
| easily lead to needing an even more invasive or extensive
| procedure, with worse complications or side effects. A
| blanket avoidance of all surgeries is a great way to be even
| more miserable.
|
| Anecdotal case: My wife broke her arm some 10 years ago or
| so. She was really upset about potential recovery time,
| insurance copayments and such, especially since she was (at
| the time) a single mother. The doctor suggested setting it
| and letting it heal on its own, which was absolutely the
| wrong call. Had she gotten surgery straight away, she would
| have recovered by the time she actually ended up getting
| surgery.
|
| I've often wondered if there wasn't a malpractice case that
| could have been made, but it was before we met so that's lost
| to time.
| Retric wrote:
| Surgery is a bigger deal than doctors make it seem, but after
| surgery care can make a huge difference.
|
| I had a surgery asked for more pain meds once on day 5 or 6.
| Instead the surgeon had me come in to look at the wound, made
| a tiny incision a blob of pus came out and things felt fine
| the next day. That's the kind of thing that could have easily
| resulted in major problems, but just the right treatment at
| just the right time fixed it.
| theshackleford wrote:
| > Instead the surgeon had me come in to look at the wound
|
| I'm surprised this is not the standard for any surgery
| involving a significant incision. In my country it's been
| the standard for instance for all three of my cervical
| spine surgeries, including the one I just had.
|
| At the 7-10 day mark I must go to my normal GP who performs
| wound review and checks for signs of infection or other
| anomaly.
| Retric wrote:
| It was standard to have a follow up. He called me in
| early, the same day they called. And he looked to it
| himself rather than having a GP do so.
| theshackleford wrote:
| Oh ok that makes sense, for a second it just sounded like
| it would have went I caught otherwise and I began
| wondering if maybe this wasn't as much of a standard as I
| thought it was.
| TaupeRanger wrote:
| Vasectomies are never "absolutely necessary", but the risk of
| chronic pain (very small) vs the risk of unintended
| pregnancy, risk to the partner, or potential financial
| hardship, can make it a good decision. It's never black and
| white in medicine.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Any time you have surgery, especially anything to repair a
| bone, joint, muscle, or tendon, do the post-op physical
| therapy religously. Do not skip it. It will be uncomfortable
| at first, but stick with it. If you slack off or don't do it,
| you may end up with persistent pain and mobility issues.
| anticensor wrote:
| Pain is a legitimate diagnosis, though.
| zdragnar wrote:
| Pain is a symptom. There's a strong psychological component
| to pain avoidance which can lead to behaviors that make it
| worse. Physical therapy isn't going to feel good, but it
| plays an important role in lots of recovery scenarios, and I
| think should be more often prescribed after surgeries.
|
| I deal with fibromyalgia pain. When I first developed it, I
| pretty much avoided doing anything, and really that was the
| opposite of what I should have done. There's no "recovery"
| and really no avoiding it; all I ended up doing was letting
| my physical condition weaken to the point that even normal
| activities were painful, so I was hurting for two reasons.
|
| Treating the underlying cause of the symptom, and training to
| avoid behaviors that exacerbate the symptom is the real key.
| nradov wrote:
| Make friends with pain.
| glasscannon wrote:
| > used me to change my routine and avoid certain activities
| which only exacerbated the issues, which led to more avoidance.
| Eventually I couldn't walk.
|
| Anecdotally, I had a phase where pretty much the same thing
| happened to me with the Achilles (+ calf/ankle) flare-ups I was
| having (during this part of my chronic journey). Eventually got
| through it by doing small walks around my home, then outside
| but keeping the frequency high each day (i.e. instead of 1
| "long" walk, doing 3-4 short ones). I.e. Desensitisation /
| daily movement
| kianN wrote:
| Splitting up activity to bite sized chunks was critical for
| me as well. It prevents over straining but I think more
| importantly it also prevents you from being stagnant for an
| extended period of time.
| littlexsparkee wrote:
| I learned this the hard way, got achilles/ankle tendon issues
| trying to rest from a joint problem instead of ramping up
| activity which would've made me more resilient.
| rand17 wrote:
| You are not wrong in my opinion - at least all my doctors share
| the same idea.
| ericmcer wrote:
| Your method is how I treated pain and it served me well for
| many years (including broken ankle, countless
| elbow/wrist/finger injuries), as soon as I could I started
| movement again, and for tendon injuries even decent intensity
| seemed to help trigger healing.
|
| That all changed when I tore my achilles, the
| pain/recovery/etc. process had me doubting everything I knew
| about recovery and now 14 months later I still question if it
| needs more rest or more activity or the whole thing is in my
| head. Ankle/foot injuries seem to have an entirely different
| approach because standing and walking are so fundamental that
| you might overdo it just by deciding to make eggs or something.
| paulcole wrote:
| This should be a show HN.
| nico wrote:
| For people on the spectrum here, just want to add to the thread
| the term Fibromyalgia
|
| It seems to be relatively common and under diagnosed. Also
| somehow controversial and not fully understood
|
| However, looking into it might shed some light on some issues of
| chronic pain and potential ways to address it
| ck2 wrote:
| Low-Dose Naltrexone aka LDN
|
| not a cure and barely a treatment but it's one of the only tools
| in the toolbox
|
| Modulates endorphin receptors (by blocking them for a little
| while)
|
| Not only causes the body to produce more endorphins to reduce
| pain but is actually proven in studies to make the ion channels
| work better if dysfunctional
|
| https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=Low-Dose+Naltrexone
|
| https://reddit.com/r/LowDoseNaltrexone
| doddpronter wrote:
| It's crazy how much your physical health is tied to mental
| happiness/lack of stress. I had a friend that during his most
| stressful period as a 24 year old in Investment Banking had strep
| throat 4 times in 2 months.
|
| Several doctor visits concluded that it was the long hours and
| insane amount of stress that was severely crushing his immune
| system.
|
| Moral of the story is love what you do and take care of yourself:
| nothing is as important as your own health and happiness
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| Did your friend leave IB after this diagnosis, or did he tough
| it out?
|
| To me that's the real question. I think either option is
| defensible, depending on what one values in life. I've known
| certain people who pulled 80 hour work weeks for years only to
| give away double-digit percentages of their salaries to
| charity, because that was what was important to them, and I
| don't think they were _wrong_ for doing that, just making
| choices at a margin I would find intolerable far earlier.
| godot wrote:
| I think most people underestimate how much of their immune
| system depends on their sleep. Sleep quality, amount (hours) of
| sleep, time in bed, all of it -- they matter.
|
| In stressful periods, it's likely not stress crushing the
| immune system, it's the indirect relationship that stress
| causes bad quality sleep and low amount of sleep, that in turn
| crushes the immune system.
|
| If, even if under stress, you manage to work out a system/habit
| that allows you to get proper sleep, you'd likely be ok.
| noident wrote:
| > I had a friend that during his most stressful period as a 24
| year old in Investment Banking had strep throat 4 times in 2
| months
|
| He may need his tonsils out. I got mine out in my 30s. It was 3
| painful weeks to recover but my quality of life is a lot
| higher.
| srshihab wrote:
| No idea
| srshihab wrote:
| Hi
| varispeed wrote:
| Why this has so many upvotes? This is very much a wall of text
| with just waffle and very little substance.
|
| The "mind-body" thing is a great tool for doctors who are into
| abuse and take pleasure in having power over their patients.
|
| "You are still having chronic pain, because you are not working
| hard enough!"
|
| "No, I will not prescribe you medication. The pain is in your
| head!"
|
| Oh and abusive partners also love this crap. You have a flare up?
| No you don't! You are just a lazy slob who doent't want to work
| and is whinging like a little baby. Stop imagining your pain!
|
| GTFO with this crap.
| xyst wrote:
| It has many upvotes because HN loves to think of itself as
| "against the establishment." The alternative medicine folks
| tend to think this.
|
| In reality , nothing more than grifters. I wouldn't be
| surprised if there's a book or "masterclass" pitch at the end
| of this series.
| foobiekr wrote:
| I have a pretty severe back injury - double pars fracture and
| significant spondylolisthesis from an accident (not a car
| accident). For many years i was in incredible pain, but it just
| kept going, sometimes getting a lot worse. When this happened I
| would go get some imaging done to make sure there weren't
| degenerative changes that needed to be addressed - you should
| never, ever get back surgery if you don't need it, so I am
| cautious about it. But I noticed something, all on my own, and
| that is that it seemed to correlate with periods of intense
| stress. I still have a ton of stress, but recognizing that
| actually kind of made a tremendous difference.
|
| I hesitate to add a link to this on the thread, but there is an
| interesting story around chronic pain actually being
| psychological and there are now some high quality studies coming
| out.
|
| https://journals.lww.com/painrpts/Fulltext/2021/09000/Psycho...
|
| I especially hate to link to LessWrong but this is an actually
| decent thread on the topic:
|
| https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BgBJqPv5ogsX4fLka/the-mind-b...
|
| I didn't know about any of this and had never been exposed to any
| of it when I drew my conclusions and started to feel less pain.
| Don't get me wrong, there are still things that will set my back
| off, but now I probably go actual years without even thinking
| about it.
| polishdude20 wrote:
| Along those lines is this excellent website:
| https://www.painscience.com/
| gleenn wrote:
| "You should never, ever get back surgery" sounds like that
| easily could be wrong. It's annoying to have to always caveat
| but talking to a (good) doctor is important when making such
| decisions and not relying on tech forum advice necessarily. I
| know someone who said they went in for back surgery and walked
| out feeling permanently cured from the specific problem they
| had and the pain was completely gone. Details matter. Always
| consult experts when possible.
| matwood wrote:
| You left off the 'if you don't need it'. Even back
| specialists will tell you that surgery is typically the last
| resort because of the risks of not fixing the issue and/or
| making it worse. It's not like fixing an ACL.
| Aurornis wrote:
| > I hesitate to add a link to this on the thread, but there is
| an interesting story around chronic pain actually being
| psychological and there are now some high quality studies
| coming out.
|
| This is a misinterpretation of these studies which is common
| throughout this thread.
|
| The research isn't showing that chronic pain is a psychological
| condition. It's suggesting that some cases of _nonspecific_
| chronic pain that specifically do not match the symptoms of
| typical physically-rooted pain are psychological. The
| participants in this study were filtered for this criteria.
|
| For some reason, people see this idea and lose the nuance,
| concluding that most or all chronic pain is actually
| psychological.
|
| I think if someone matches the description used by the author
| of the substack for this HN entry (he describes his chronic
| pain as random and popping up all over his body) then pursuing
| the psychological explanation would be a very good idea.
|
| However, it's getting frustrating to see all of the
| reductionist claims that "chronic pain is psychological".
| Quekid5 wrote:
| > However, it's getting frustrating to see all of the
| reductionist claims that "chronic pain is psychological".
|
| It's incredibly frustrating and disheartening... For obvious
| reasons, I'm not going to go into too much detail, but
| chronic (non-visible) pain is the worst of the worst. People
| will either think you're "faking"[0] or it's "just
| psychosomatic"[1]. I actually relish being able to work for a
| good long day because I'm lucky enough to actually enjoy
| making computers do stuff.
|
| [0] Yes, I love to miss lots of family occasions, just
| because.
|
| [1] I'll just will myself better. Nevermind the MRI scans and
| all that.
|
| EDIT: I should add... the cognitive biases at work _are_
| understandable because they 've probably been around since
| proto-humanity, but that doesn't change the outcomes.
| sd8f9iu wrote:
| I agree. I lived with chronic pain for over a decade due to a
| specific medical problem that, though I could never get a
| precise diagnosis, was not caused by stress or my mental
| state. It was incredibly frustrating to deal with family and
| others who had read articles like this one and insisted all
| chronic pain was psychological in origin and needed a mind-
| body approach. I am happy for the author and am sure this
| approach works for many, but I'm not sure why they think that
| all chronic pain is common in cause. There are a host of
| chronic pain conditions that are physiological in origin and
| not psychological.
| foobiekr wrote:
| I did not say _all_ chronic pain. I would go back and edit
| that to be "some" if I still could.
| munificent wrote:
| _> there is an interesting story around chronic pain actually
| being psychological_
|
| I think this is an incorrect oversimplification.
|
| I had a pretty bad accident a year ago and am still dealing
| with physical therapy and recovery from it. I have spent a lot
| of last year traveling the land of pain.
|
| It's not that pain (chronic or not) _is_ psychological. It 's
| more that our pyschological state modulates how we experience
| pain.
|
| If you hit your thumb with a hammer, the pain you feel is
| absolutely not psychosomatic and entirely in your head. There
| are real nerves in your hand sending your brain real pain
| signals.
|
| But if you happen to do that on a day that you're really
| stressed out, _it will hurt worse_. And if days after the
| accident you are still hurting and you find your inner
| monologue saying things like "See, you hit your thumb because
| you're such a stupid clutz." then you will experience that pain
| with greater intensity and for longer than if you had a more
| positive narrative around the injury.
| littlexsparkee wrote:
| I dealt with mobility issues the last 2.5 years after turf toe
| (healed after 1 year and then reinjured), didn't realize how
| crucial strengthening was after losing muscle resting, then after
| research found out how critical loading tendons is to having them
| repaired. I left my stable job a couple of months ago to dedicate
| myself to getting my life back. I'd let thumb RSI simmer for a
| long time too, even though I got to the point where I could do
| most things with Talon (friction made me get lazy occasionally).
| The hardest part is mental - the ups and downs, isolation, not
| knowing what to do to fix yourself, feeling like your body is
| betraying you and the lack of help from the medical system
| besides some basic scans and generic advice. I'm glad that I had
| a cushion so that I haven't had to stress too much taking time
| off.
|
| To folks dealing with physical pain, I recommend: Built From
| Broken by Scott Hogan, Rehab Science by Tom Walters.
|
| For joint issues these may help: celadrin, pro-resolving
| mediators, red mineral algae w/ aquamin, natural eggshell
| membrane, collagen peptides w/ fortigel.
| godot wrote:
| I'd be curious to follow along and read more. My experience is
| that everyone's body is quite different and what causes chronic
| issues with everyone can be quite different. That's not to say
| his observations and solutions won't be useful to others, but
| it's another good anecdote to understand and things worth trying
| for others having similar issues.
|
| I myself for example have had headache and migraine issues for
| more than 25 years. I understand deeply an incredible amount
| about what causes my migraines, how they feel, how I help with
| it, and so on. I understand migraines more than anyone else I
| ever know in my life because I observe, pay attention, study, and
| try different things so much. I understand it more than most
| doctors I talk to. But I also know that everyone's migraines are
| a little different and not everyone gets triggered by the same
| things (though there's a lot of overlaps) and my solutions may
| not help for everyone. I'd totally write something like this for
| migraines if I had the time (I don't :( ).
| xyst wrote:
| Very odd pipeline from rank and file tech employee to wellness
| and alternative medicine "influencer".
|
| Ticks all the boxes:
|
| - not a doctor
|
| - not a physical therapist
|
| - offering tips to solve your pain that somehow nobody could
|
| - emphasizing a single "landmark" study with no other context
|
| - results based off of personal experience
|
| Guy is trying to become the RFK Jr of Aussie land.
| zermelo44 wrote:
| Thanks for posting. I look forward to following along.
|
| I have had chronic pain and other annoying functional
| neurological symptoms for the past 4 years. It started about
| halfway throughout my PhD.
|
| I was born with congenital torticollis (fibrosis of the right
| sternocleidomastoid muscle) and had surgery for this twice when I
| was young. I also had 3 other surgical procedures for different
| reasons as a child.
|
| Because my pain started in my neck and shoulder, I was set on
| believing that my previous surgeries were the cause of my pain.
| But as I learned more, meditated more, did yoga more, and faced
| pushback (and lots of confusion) from health professionals, it
| became clear that my symptoms are mainly "mind-body" (I hate that
| dualistic term).
|
| I'd be very interested in talking more.
| mgz18 wrote:
| When I was 34, I was laying in bed one night and noticed that
| muscles all over my body were twitching. It didn't go away. A
| month later I went to a neurologist in my hometown in the midwest
| for a workup that culminated in a EMG-NCV study (the neurologist
| doing that study asked if I liked the NY Yankees.. "I do not..
| and I've definitely never heard of Lou Gehrig.. so let's get on
| with it.."). Ultimately he congratulated me on having no signs of
| ALS or any other neurodegenerative disease and told me to "live
| your life." He hadn't seen the widespread persistent muscle
| twitching I was experiencing before. Six months later, I went to
| another neurologist, this time at Stanford. She did another
| workup and said the same things as the first guy, except she
| added, "yeah, we see this fairly often." The diagnosis was
| "Benign Fasciculation Syndrome" (BFS), aka "we don't know what
| caused everything to start twitching or how to stop it, but it
| won't progress and kill you."
|
| What really struck me was that 1) the midwestern neurologist
| seemed to have never seen symptoms like mine, whereas the
| Stanford neurologist had seen them often, and 2) the Stanford
| neurologist linked it to poorly managed anxiety. At the time I
| was five years into a data scientist role at a big tech company
| in the bay area (now it's two year later - the symptoms improved
| somewhat but are still there). I definitely had burnout and
| mental health problems and was in denial about them ("I have all
| these great perks, how could my work be causing my mental health
| issues?").
|
| The best thing you can say about BFS is it isn't physically
| painful; I am definitely not equating it with the chronic pain
| issues that others have described on this thread, which seem much
| tougher. It's another one of those things that has no known cure
| (diet / lifestyle / mental health improvements help somewhat), is
| only vaguely understood ("your nerves are oversensitive"), is
| linked to mental health issues, and seems overrepresented in the
| bay area (maybe in other tech/urban centers too, I don't know).
| Two years in, I don't have any answers, just wanted to share in
| case it's helpful to anyone.
| pstuart wrote:
| The mind/body part for dealing with chronic pain is vital to
| embrace, but isn't always enough. Finding ways to "attack" pain
| would be a relief to millions.
|
| The best I've been able to find is kratom, but that's not without
| its concerns -- drug laws are no friend to pain patients (let
| alone society as a whole).
|
| Pro tip: get a shingles vaccine if you are able to --
| postherpetic neuralgia is no fun.
| amai wrote:
| tldr; Pain Reprocessing Therapy:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34586357/
|
| As stated at the end, the authors of the study have a lot of
| conflicting interests.
| glasscannon wrote:
| Thanks for sharing the link - this one goes into more depth:
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...
|
| I can't comment on the conflict of interest as I do not know
| the practitioners personally, but from additional/supplementary
| research in this space as well as the massive amount of people
| this work has appearerd to help recover (look at
| reviews/discussion for books like the 'The Way Out') - it does
| seem to be having a big impact.
|
| I'm aiming to link supplementary research in follow-on articles
| (e.g. the relation b/w pain and injury where nociplastic pain
| is present, the impact of psychological factors on pain etc) to
| paint a comprehensive (yet digestible) picture.
| amai wrote:
| You are sharing exactly the same article I already did. It
| has the same information, it is just a different url.
| keysdev wrote:
| I highly recommend look at Susan Luschas web site. [1] She is
| also a former tech person who is doing deep dive into debugging
| health. Much chronic pain maybe dental and organ related.
|
| 1. https://debugyourhealth.com/
| storus wrote:
| If your pain stems from covid, try high doses of thiamine or
| alternatively TTFD. Quite a few people reported feeling great for
| the first time in ages after a single high dose and there seem to
| be some studies showing pain disappearance in fibromyalgia.
| anon1685212382 wrote:
| Since I became 30yo, I suffered various health issues. I see
| people much older than me including my parents who were in much
| better shape, and I kept thinking what was wrong with me. I'm
| 37yo now and in almost the best shape of my life, and there was
| so much I learned - I'm sharing here in case it can help others.
|
| First: With the exception of extreme health issues (e.g. Cancer),
| you likely have a good chance of resolving your health issues.
| Don't be discouraged by your chronic pains and think you have to
| now live with the pain or health issues for the rest of your
| life. Tackle your health issues like any other engineering
| problem: understand the problem, make a plan, execute, monitor
| progress, and iterate over this process (e.g. revise your plans).
| If you do not take action, nothing will change.
|
| Second: Stress is a killer. I've had to visit the emergency room
| twice because I thought I either had a heart attack or I was
| dying from high blood pressure. I was way too into my work (due
| to both passion and commitment), that delays with my projects
| gave me high mental pressure. Upon re-evaluating my life, I asked
| myself: which is more important, my work or my health? Once I
| started prioritizing my health and started pushing back on
| unreasonable timelines, my stress is gone and none of the chest
| pain, headache, and high blood pressure issues have come up
| again.
|
| Last but not least: Your body is a very complex machine and you
| need to learn how to use it correctly. I had a very sedentary
| lifestyle and had many chronic pains, e.g. heels, ankles, knees,
| hip, elbow, wrist, etc. My body was so weak that I even injured
| my neck and back once just by sleeping in a not-so-great
| position. I found an awesome PT who specialized in holistic
| physical therapy and he helped address issues from my feet all
| the way to my neck. I am now able to resume all the activities
| from my younger days such as DDR & tennis. There's too much to
| explain here but I have two key takeaways: one is my body was
| extremely tight & inflexible and PNF treatment from my PT was
| needed for recovery, and another is I just didn't know my body
| and muscles well. I did not know how various muscles work, how to
| use my body & muscles effectively, and what exercises to do and
| their correct form. Learning and doing the exercises properly and
| frequently changed my life. Btw: I highly do NOT recommend all
| the YouTube fitness videos - you simply just cannot tell if what
| they're saying is correct and whether their suggestion is even
| the correct remedy for your problem.
|
| That is all. I wish everyone good luck in addressing their
| chronic pain!
| algo_lover wrote:
| Why do all such articles never talk about the meat of the
| solution? Why do I always feel like I'm being sold something.
|
| Why is it so hard to explain the solution briefly, or directly
| present it to me upfront. Why does it need so much of mystery
| around it?
|
| In this article the OP does not even mention "Pain reprocessing
| theory" which is what they seems to be talking about (based on
| the study they have linked)
| 762236 wrote:
| As someone who has overcome chronic pain, and frequently foils
| acute pain from turning into chronic pain, I started daily
| joint-mobility exercises from Kelly Starrett's Supple Leopard
| book (and his MWOD videos on YouTube) to achieve this. Physical
| therapy needs daily, incremental progress, which you can do
| yourself.
| specialist wrote:
| Agreed.
|
| Yes and: Kelly's freq collaborator Jill Miller (author of The
| Roll Model, TuneUp Fitness, etc.).
| pedalpete wrote:
| I've been guilty of this myself for our neurotech sleeptech
| company, and I still owe HN a better blog post clarifying our
| positioning.
|
| I think there are a few reasons you see this in health/medical
| community.
|
| 1) just helping people understand a different view of the
| problem is often enough for one blog post. Stuffing new way to
| look at solution and new solution together can sometimes be a
| bit much.
|
| 2) we have to be cautious from a regulatory perspective about
| what we say, and sometimes in being too cautious don't give the
| people who REALLY want to understaned the processes enough to
| go on. For our company, I used to say things like "we can
| increase the synchronous firing of neurons which results in
| reduced 15^% drop in early night cortisol, and 14.5% increase
| in hrv....".
|
| But prior to regulatory approvals, we can't point directly to
| neurological or physiological processes, which means we kinda
| end up talking around the solution a bit.
|
| 3) in marketing, they want to connect and build an audience, so
| they are dripping more information over time. One post gets
| feedback and interest from one group, then you do another, and
| another. It's about building the community and connecting with
| people, not just a "here's a problem, do the thing, thanks". If
| you are trying to build a business, you probably need to get in
| front of people 7-8 times, particularly if you're taking a new
| approach to a problem, to build trust and brand recognition.
|
| It's not the best, but it is the way the world works.
| glasscannon wrote:
| Hey algo_lover, OP here.
|
| Just woke up and this post's traction has surpassed my wildest
| imagination.
|
| Similar to what pedalpete has said, I'm looking to release this
| in parts to ensure:
|
| 1. I am not overwhelming people and losing their interest
|
| 2. Quality remains as high as possible (I invested only a few
| hours into this last week as an experiment). I want this blog
| to be the most easily accessible, engaging + factual source for
| chronic pain sufferers. That requires sufficient time to nail
| (and it seems like I've struck a chord so far).
|
| 3. Get signals from readers week by week and tailor to the
| audience which is forming.
|
| This will help me helpfully reach the most pain sufferers.
|
| RE feel like you're being sold something. This series will
| cover what is needed to recover from chronic pain and be
| offered for free. I am looking to build a product eventually
| (why wouldn't I want help as many people as posssible while
| building a career which does good - I don't believe they're
| exclusive), but the information in this blog will remain free.
|
| RE not calling out Pain reprocessing theory/therapy - I'll go
| through the post today and see if it makes sense to add this
| into #1 (or if it's better for #4). It's not something I
| consciously omitted when writting this post last week.
|
| Thanks for the comment!
| necovek wrote:
| Thanks for wanting to help, but:
|
| 1. You've lost my interest with no "meat", as the GP stated.
|
| 2. There is no "quality" in using a couple thousand words of
| text to say "I'll be writing about what helped with my
| chronic pain over time".
|
| 3. Here's the signal: I am not in for "weekly" sessions. I do
| have chronic pain, but what you want to be producing is
| utterly incompatible with what I need.
| Nathanba wrote:
| here is what helped reduce my chronic neck pain: red meat
| (beef) with no side dish, eating healthy in general (and I
| mean truly healthy, not "oh one small candy bar every two
| days is proably okay..." no, it actually isn't. It's
| poison.) and exercise, a foam roller, bench press. Also
| definitely don't eat leafy greens, if you do that then you
| should stop in my opinion. I can't emphasize enough how
| important it is to truly eat perfectly. You can't make a
| single mistake or it will start the sickness cycle again.
| Not immediately but even a single piece of chocolate will
| make it so that the body is susceptible to further damage
| the next day. Then if I eat another piece the second day
| I'm really risking it and the damage left a hole in my
| health. I've had multiple instances where I ate a piece of
| cake and a donut and I was getting sickly with a hot head
| within 2h. I think it's hard to emphasize enough how
| important health is, it should be your top hobby to be
| healthy and eat healthy. It should be your nr.1 pasttime to
| research health and draw joy from doing health related
| things.
| snozolli wrote:
| Your reply seems disingenuous, like marketing-speak. You're
| telling people "I have a solution to your chronic pain" and
| then they read the article only to find out "tune in next
| week for the next bread crumb".
|
| Chronic pain drives people to suicide. You're toying with
| people's emotions.
| projektfu wrote:
| TBH I couldn't tell what the condition was or what general
| kind of treatment it was from the article without making big
| assumptions. Chronic pain is a symptom, viz. pain that
| doesn't go away after a short time. What was your disease? Or
| was it never given a name but the pain was treated?
|
| Then I had to click a link "a landmark study" to get an idea
| of what the treatment is. Why not put the title of the
| treatment there?
|
| Finally, that article is about back pain. But you had tendon
| pain. Obviously a psychological technique can be applied to
| multiple diseases, but you might say something about that.
| delhanty wrote:
| As someone who has been mitigating and managing chronic pain
| for 25 years, with respect IMO your expectation is unrealistic.
|
| There isn't a "solution" - you're looking at a life-long
| mitigation and management strategy that will not be "brief".
|
| The time commitment typically goes up as one ages. I could
| spend 40 hours a week on nutrition, exercise and relaxation if
| I was trying to optimize for chronic pain reduction.
|
| But then nothing else would get done.
| re-lre-l wrote:
| Went hospital, took medication. No magic. That's the cause
| rand17 wrote:
| Chronic pain is complicated. There is no universal solution.
| Sometimes there's no solution at all.
| cousin_it wrote:
| Hi algo_lover, I also noticed that about the post. The approach
| being discussed is "pain reprocessing therapy". It was
| described in a book called The Way Out, by Alan Gordon and Alon
| Ziv. Here's my short summary of the book:
|
| - Chronic pain is often generated by the brain, not any actual
| injury. Not always, but often. Especially if it gets worse
| during stress or high alert, and especially if the feeling of
| pain becomes connected to your fear of that same pain.
|
| - In periods when pain is high, you need to kinda nurse it. Lie
| down, put warm water on it, whatever it takes. Don't try to
| power through the pain. Avoid situations where you have to
| power through.
|
| - In periods when pain is moderate or low, take short sessions
| to examine it. "Ok, this isn't a threatening injury, this is
| just a sensation. Where is it located? What shape? Hot or cold?
| More dull or more like tingling?" Etc, etc. Don't hyperfocus,
| just explore the feeling in a light and curious way.
| hyperbolablabla wrote:
| This sounds LLMlish
| cousin_it wrote:
| I'm a human and was just trying to write the most helpful
| reply to parent, but now that you point it out, yeah.
| Winsaucerer wrote:
| I am also a fellow human.
| williebeek wrote:
| Me too, really...
| projektfu wrote:
| Don't feel bad, I've been failing Turing tests since MS
| Messenger days.
| koliber wrote:
| I found that a lot of advice for working with LLMs is based
| on asking good questions. This is also good advice for
| working with people, and for working with yourself.
| monkeyelite wrote:
| Another post reflecting the aging HN population.
| ThinkBeat wrote:
| He decided he could monetize his recovery by selling the "the
| cure" on a newsletter basis and using organic growth to make more
| money.
|
| As he does point out he is not a doctor and his solution is not
| backed by extensive medical studies.
|
| He could just write a document laying it all out, and letting
| people download it, easier for everyone.
|
| (and try to get some researchers do the chekcing).
|
| This is damn close to snakeoil.
| glasscannon wrote:
| I appreciate your skepticism.
|
| > by selling the "the cure" on a newsletter basis and using
| organic growth to make more money.
|
| I am not selling anything, the information from what is
| happening -> to how to recover (if it is relevant to you) is
| and will be freely available on this substack. It is not
| paywalled and I'm not intending for it to be.
|
| Additionally where are you quoting "the cure" from? I will be
| sharing information for people to use to self assess if it
| applies to them. Recovery from chronic pain is rarely simple as
| your quote implies - instead it requires daily concentrated
| effort.
|
| > his solution is not backed by extensive medical studies.
|
| Please read this study from 2021:
| https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/...
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34586357/
|
| > He could just write a document laying it all out, and letting
| people download it, easier for everyone.
|
| Readers are more than welcome to download an offline copy from
| their browser if they'd prefer to consume it that way.
|
| > (and try to get some researchers do the chekcing).
|
| This is a valid point and I'll see how I can integrate it into
| future pieces, even if it's just collaborating with
| (legitimate) researchers. Thanks.
|
| Something to understand is until yesterday no one knew I was in
| this space. Me DM'ing a researcher and asking them to vet my
| writing would likely have at best resulted in them letting me
| know they're busy. That likely isn't the case anymore.
|
| > This is damn close to snakeoil.
|
| Happy to discuss this in more depth. I don't see which part is
| comparable to snakeoil.
| halayli wrote:
| Prolonged stress is often a major contributor to cp. The problem
| is that after being stressed for a long period we no longer feel
| the weight until it's fully lifted which requires taking some
| time off and the majority of us are not in a position to do that.
| bGl2YW5j wrote:
| What a coincidence! I'm also in Australia and have just finished
| a self-imposed 8 month holiday from the tech world BS you
| describe.
|
| I started the holiday super jaded with the idea of working in
| tech forever. I spent my time on everything but tech. Recently my
| passion has been reignited and I've got more clarity around what
| it is about tech and my career I enjoy, and what I want from my
| future.
|
| Now, I'm working on a healthcare service for chronic disease.
| alshival wrote:
| I feel you. Used to work 16 hours a day. I quit my job and
| started freelancing. These days, I only commit 20 hours a week to
| work. Still make enough to pay my bills and live a little, but I
| won't be getting a boat anytime soon. But with that extra time, I
| go to the gym, play video games, or blast the neighborhood using
| my brand spanking new Eric Clapton Pewder Strat.
|
| I have 15 years in data, and 10 years in machine-learning. Back
| in 2016, I couldn't find a job doing machine-learning. These
| days, I don't worry anymore about finding work. Things have
| improved.
| wysewun wrote:
| Have had long term chronic pain. Think possibly due to a
| combination of tendinitis and lack of movemen as a dev
|
| Our bodies aren't meant to be in one position for that long no
| matter the ergonomics unless you know what you're doing.
|
| Lots of people mock tiktok for the dancing but in observing the
| dances, I've grown an appreciation for full range of movement and
| trying to increase range of motion in the joints
|
| I was able to find some exercises that helped in this to
| decompress but I can go into more detail if people want
| mieubrisse wrote:
| YES! I'm experiencing a separate-but-related problem to do with
| myopia, and my eyes perpetually getting longer (likely due to the
| long hours of computer use).
|
| I wish I could go back to completely undistracted building, but I
| realize now that I was a bit addicted and that level of intensity
| was hurting me.
|
| Now what occupies my waking hours is, "How can I debug this
| failing system?"
| rickvidallon wrote:
| Any pixel pushers out there experience PMR? aka Polymyalgia
| rheumatica
| heraldgeezer wrote:
| Weight needs to be mentioned more. Even in Europe 50% or so are
| overweight or obese.
| bentt wrote:
| Are you familiar with Dr. John Sarno's work and if so, how does
| it relate to what you'll be writing about?
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