[HN Gopher] Trans-Taiga Road (2004)
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       Trans-Taiga Road (2004)
        
       Author : jason_pomerleau
       Score  : 145 points
       Date   : 2025-07-03 01:07 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.jamesbayroad.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.jamesbayroad.com)
        
       | jdkee wrote:
       | Via Wikipedia:
       | 
       | The average consumption of residential and agricultural customers
       | is relatively high, at 16,857 kWh per year in 2011,[119] because
       | of the widespread use of electricity as the main source of space
       | (77%) and water heating (90%).[124] Hydro-Quebec estimates that
       | heating accounts for more than one half of the electricity demand
       | in the residential sector.[125]
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | Around 10% of the electricity in New York and Boston comes from
         | the James Bay Project; the power is transferred over 1000
         | miles.
        
       | newyankee wrote:
       | Its funny when I saw this road, I realised the distance is
       | probably more than the N-S or E-W distance of Bangladesh , a
       | country with > 171 million people last checked.
       | 
       | In fact barely equal to the diagonal length of the country. How
       | much ever one talks about fertile plains, tropical weather being
       | able to support more people, this no is still bonkers to me
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | The low population density of central Canada is not because
         | it's not fertile.
         | 
         | A few hundred kilometres south of the area in the article, is a
         | vast clay belt of about half a million square kilometres. It's
         | fertile. You can grow potatoes and oats and the usual garden
         | vegetables up there. Somewhat settled on the Quebec side, and
         | there are farms, but less than 5% of the area suitable for
         | agriculture, is currently used for agriculture. It's a region
         | about the size of France, and there are no large cities, and
         | the total population is about 100,000.
         | 
         | You can even see the Quebec/Ontario border from space in some
         | spots, because the Ontario side is wholly undeveloped:
         | https://www.google.com/maps/@48.7805302,-79.5591059,52996m/
        
           | bix6 wrote:
           | Does it matter if it's fertile though? Isn't the climate
           | there the limiting factor on ag?
        
             | rfrey wrote:
             | The short growing season is somewhat offset by the very
             | long summer days.
        
             | cyberax wrote:
             | You can grow plenty of food there: wheat, potatoes, apples,
             | cabbage, etc.
             | 
             | It's roughly at the same latitude as Moscow.
        
               | orthoxerox wrote:
               | Yes, and no one sane invests into agriculture around
               | Moscow when there's much more warmer and fertile land
               | down south. Factory farms and greenhouses? Yes,
               | certainly, but this is driven by the food demands of a
               | massive metropolis next door: move east or west far
               | enough to offset this benefit and you will see scenes of
               | rural decay.
        
               | decimalenough wrote:
               | That's because small-scale farming is not sufficient
               | profitable, not because it's not possible. You can find
               | scenes of rural decay in most any industrialized country.
        
               | cyberax wrote:
               | Plenty of people invest in agriculture around Moscow.
               | That's why Russia is one of the leaders in food exports.
               | 
               | To be fair, the bulk of the most productive Russian
               | agricultural lands actually ends around Moscow's
               | latitude.
        
             | antupis wrote:
             | It depends, like here in Finland, there is lots of farmland
             | and active farms, but most is at
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humid_continental_climate ,
             | Norway also has a lot of farms in subarctic areas like this
             | in the article, but Norway is substituting farming very
             | heavily even European standards.
        
               | decimalenough wrote:
               | *subsidizing
        
               | mytailorisrich wrote:
               | Both Finland and Norway have low population, too, because
               | overall the climate is too harsh for high-yield
               | agriculture.
        
           | noduerme wrote:
           | Fascinating! The border between Quebec and Ontario looks like
           | the Mexican border with the US, or the Israeli border with
           | Egypt, but this is all in the same country, Canada. In the US
           | you can see some traces of this between Nevada and California
           | or Idaho and Oregon, due to different laws and tax
           | structures. Obviously if it's a sharp difference in land use
           | along an arbitrary imaginary line, it must be due to the
           | governance. So why is the Quebec side so much more farmed and
           | developed?
           | 
           | [edit] one reason in the US for those sorts of divisions has
           | to do with water rights. I think that probably applies to my
           | other two examples as well. Buy I don't understand how that
           | would be an issue in the northern parts of Canada.
        
             | retrac wrote:
             | Different history of colonization policy in Quebec and
             | Ontario. Colonization in Ontario was shut down in the 1930s
             | during the Great Depression. In Quebec, formal colonization
             | was more tightly integrated with the Church, had more
             | institutional support, and officially continued until 1973.
             | There were still government-backed homesteading projects in
             | the 1960s in Quebec. Also, on the Ontario side in the early
             | 20th century there was no road/rail connection except via
             | Quebec. Which meant that development in the region was tied
             | more to Quebec than southern Ontario. And Ontario had
             | little reason to support that. So it remained government
             | land on the Ontario side. Or at least that's how I
             | understand it.
        
               | noduerme wrote:
               | Thanks for the history. Very interesting. I guess Ontario
               | still isn't interested in trying to farm land further
               | north now..? The last time I was in Australia (15 years
               | ago), I met a French chef in the middle of nowhere in the
               | Northern Territory (he walked out of the bush with a can
               | of kangaroo meat to say hello) who told me he was being
               | paid something like $500 per month by the government just
               | to live out in the middle of nowhere and homestead, which
               | I found astonishing.
        
               | nsavage wrote:
               | I think you're right, but I don't think 'colonization'
               | ever really stopped in Ontario - it just moved elsewhere.
               | While Quebec was incentivized to develop its regions,
               | there were more valuable places for Ontario capital to
               | flow to, such as Alberta.
               | 
               | The difference between the two is language really and the
               | urge to develop Quebec as a sovereign country, that drive
               | has never been there for Ontario because Ontario _is_
               | Canada, at least in the eyes of Ontarians. You don 't see
               | people in Ontario proud of being Ontarian as you do in
               | Quebec, the Maritimes, Alberta, etc, instead they're
               | proud of being Canadian.
        
         | noduerme wrote:
         | That's not specific to this road. You could probably pick any
         | 50,000 sq km area on the planet besides Bangladesh, and the
         | population density would be several orders of magnitude lower
         | than that of Bangladesh, except for maybe the few largest
         | metropolitan areas in the world. Bangladesh can't support half
         | its population, and Canada could probably support 10x its
         | population, so one has to conclude that the wild difference in
         | fertility rate is not as simple to explain as a function of how
         | much land there is or how much food can be produced there.
        
         | LAC-Tech wrote:
         | _Its funny when I saw this road, I realised the distance is
         | probably more than the N-S or E-W distance of Bangladesh , a
         | country with > 171 million people last checked._
         | 
         | I feel like you've just given the Canadian Government some
         | ideas
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | Photo tour:
       | https://www.jamesbayroad.com/ttr/virtualtour/index.html
        
       | jedberg wrote:
       | Intersting! I know that in the contiguous USA, you will never be
       | more than 20 miles from a road no matter where you are, but have
       | no idea how far one can drive from a town.
        
         | mgerdts wrote:
         | This story is about a road in Canada. I doubt the 20 mile thing
         | holds in remote parts of Alaska.
        
           | jedberg wrote:
           | Updated my comment because you're right, I meant contiguous
           | USA.
           | 
           | And I'm aware it's about Canada, which is why I said "I
           | wonder what the answer to this same question is for the USA".
           | :)
        
             | bonzini wrote:
             | You probably want contiguous rather than continental.
             | Continental does include Alaska but not Hawaii or US
             | territories.
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | You're right, and I edited my comment accordingly, but I
               | asked Google and got this interesting AI response, so I
               | guess a lot of people on the internet make the same
               | mistake, since AI just echos its training data:
               | 
               | The term "Continental United States" (CONUS) generally
               | refers to the 48 contiguous states plus the District of
               | Columbia, excluding Alaska and Hawaii. It encompasses the
               | landmass of the United States located on the North
               | American continent. While sometimes confused with the
               | "contiguous United States," which also refers to the 48
               | states, "continental" specifically emphasizes the
               | geographical location on the continent.
        
               | eCa wrote:
               | You would have been better off asking Wikipedia: https://
               | simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_United_State...
        
               | jedberg wrote:
               | I think you missed my point. My point was that it's a
               | common error, as surfaced by the AI.
        
         | bombcar wrote:
         | You can easily do it if you go to the center of Lake Superior
         | ;)
        
         | moralestapia wrote:
         | So if you're ever lost, you just walk?
         | 
         | (Assuming nothing kills you in nature)
         | 
         | Edit: Wait, no. You could be extremely unlucky and be walking
         | parallel to the closest road, lol.
        
           | umanwizard wrote:
           | Walking in a spiral pattern (where the layers of the spiral
           | are close enough that if you look toward the center, you can
           | always see the point where you were on the previous layer)
           | will guarantee that you eventually see all points on any
           | given radius.
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | That could be an awful lot of walking though.
        
             | mousethatroared wrote:
             | You're not wrong, but this is proof that Id rather be
             | stranded in the wilderness with an archeologist than a CS
             | major (I'm assuming).
             | 
             | An archeologist would walk down a gradient until they find
             | a stream and therefore a fluvial network to a human
             | settlement.
             | 
             | Your answer gets me killed.
        
               | moralestapia wrote:
               | "Easy, we just A-star this thing and walk for a maximum
               | of 273 days."
        
           | bravesoul2 wrote:
           | Nerd snipe: given a compass and dropped in a random location
           | what is the best strategy (based on direction assuming no
           | clues from terrain) of finding a road. E.g. strategy might be
           | 1000 steps south then 1000 east, repeat.
           | 
           | Nerd snipe 2. Same without a compass or any sense of
           | direction. Assume you can accurately make a 90 degree turn
           | and count steps
        
             | labster wrote:
             | Honestly I'd just walk downhill. Most human settlements are
             | on rivers, most roads take the lowest passes. At night, I'd
             | just walk in the direction of the sky that's glowing the
             | most.
        
               | jonah-archive wrote:
               | Melville (roughly) agrees -- from the first chapter of
               | Moby-Dick:
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Once more. Say you are in the country; in some high land
               | of lakes. Take almost any path you please, and ten to one
               | it carries you down in a dale, and leaves you there by a
               | pool in the stream. There is magic in it. Let the most
               | absent-minded of men be plunged in his deepest reveries--
               | stand that man on his legs, set his feet a-going, and he
               | will infallibly lead you to water, if water there be in
               | all that region. Should you ever be athirst in the great
               | American desert, try this experiment, if your caravan
               | happen to be supplied with a metaphysical professor. Yes,
               | as every one knows, meditation and water are wedded for
               | ever.
               | 
               | ---
        
             | moralestapia wrote:
             | You could still do that parallel to a road.
        
               | bravesoul2 wrote:
               | The idea is to minimise tbe chance.
        
             | throwway120385 wrote:
             | Go find water and then try to follow where it flows. Look
             | at the scenery and try to determine whether you're in a
             | valley or on a plateau or in the mountains.
             | 
             | Compasses are pretty useless without a map or a terrestrial
             | view of some sort, as all you can do with them is shoot a
             | bearing relative to magnetic north, or if your compass
             | includes a declination adjustment a bearing to true north,
             | provided you know the declination beforehand. It's often
             | printed on topographical maps for this reason.
             | 
             | If you're on top of something then you can use the compass
             | to get somewhere you can do dead reckoning. Usually there's
             | little landmarks every 10 or 20 feet that you can stay on a
             | bearing to. But if you can't see any topography from where
             | you're at you'll have to infer it somehow. So another
             | strategy might be to head uphill if you can ascertain there
             | will be some kind of view there.
             | 
             | A lot of what you'd do depends on the terrain you find
             | yourself in.
        
             | madaxe_again wrote:
             | Specific to the U.S., assuming no terrain clues - go NW,
             | SE, SW, or NE, as most roads in the U.S. go N, S, E or W -
             | mitigates the possibility of parallel tracking.
             | 
             | The latter - pick a direction, walk in a straight line.
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | _Assuming nothing kills you in nature_
           | 
           | Weather is the only likely natural hazard outside polar bear
           | country (and to a lesser extent grizzly country because
           | grizzlies are less likely to see you as food). And if you are
           | in polar bear country weather is extreme.
           | 
           | But as the saying goes "there is no bad weather just poor
           | clothing choices."
        
             | rafram wrote:
             | If you're lost in the wilderness, hunger and thirst are the
             | real concerns.
        
               | southernplaces7 wrote:
               | Sorry for the huge response to your passing comment but:
               | 
               | Not really. Statistically, the things that most often
               | kill people lost in the wilderness are exposure and
               | following that, accidents that outright kill or weaken
               | the body's ability to deal with the weather and thus
               | accelerate exposure effects. You do not need freezing
               | temperatures to die of exposure. Even being exposed to
               | mild cold, but continuously, and particularly if wet or
               | partly submerged in water, will eventually bring your
               | body down to hypothermic temperatures.
               | 
               | Hunger is barely a factor because you can go without food
               | for an exceptionally long time before you weaken
               | severely, let alone die, and though we need water to live
               | quite soon, it's rarely impossible to find unless you're
               | in a very arid place. In either case, if the weather is
               | bad and you're under-dressed, that's what will kill you
               | well before you need to worry about dropping from hunger
               | or even thirst.
               | 
               | As for wild animals, they're your single lowest worry,
               | despite being the things that tend to most scare people
               | about the wilderness (thank our ancient hunter/gatherer
               | instincts for this, since they led to us not immediately
               | fearing things we'd adapted ourselves to handling well,
               | like weather and sources of nutrition, but continuing to
               | fear the things we couldn't easily control, like lurking
               | beasts).
               | 
               | Generally, you'd have to be incredibly unlucky to be the
               | victim of something like a bear or puma attack and forget
               | completely about attacks from any other animal, since
               | they're nearly unheard of.
               | 
               | Just to be clear, with most of the above i'm referring to
               | North America or at least to some sort of northern or
               | southern temperate region that may include deserts,
               | forests, prairies, etc, and not tropical conditions or
               | wildlife.
               | 
               | In tropical conditions, and especially jungles, the
               | calculus changes quite a bit, with exposure being less of
               | a risk (though one can be surprised by unexpected cold,
               | as has happened to me in outright jungles deep inside
               | central America where you wouldn't fucking expect to feel
               | really cold, but holy shit!.) Certain kinds of wildlife
               | also become much more of a danger in tropical places,
               | though with few exceptions, the really problematic ones
               | won't be the big predators. Instead you can genuinely
               | worry about smaller things that sting or bite with venom.
               | 
               | Edited for way too many spelling mistakes.
        
           | defrost wrote:
           | Finding a road, even having a car and fuel is no guarantee of
           | survival in remote areas.
           | 
           | eg: Lost while bore running-
           | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7065113/How-two-
           | boy...
           | 
           | https://www.smh.com.au/national/horrific-desert-death-
           | parent...
        
             | skissane wrote:
             | Keep in mind that tragedy happened all the way back in
             | 1986.
             | 
             | Anyone doing the same kind of work today (bore maintenance
             | in extremely remote Australian desert) likely has a
             | Personal Locator Beacon-which can be used to transmit your
             | location to the authorities in an emergency via satellite.
             | Dramatically increases the odds of being rescued promptly
             | if stranded.
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | Same time as I was doing similar work in the same area,
               | same time the Pintupi Nine popped up wondering who all
               | these pale people are.
               | 
               | > _likely has_
               | 
               | Yeah, mostly the case but certainly not all .. had they
               | been available at the time it'd be unlikely that pair
               | would have been given an EPIRB given the run down
               | economic state of the pastoral station then.
               | 
               | If you want an EPIRB success story for those that are
               | routinely well prepared, there's this tale from the
               | Gunbarrel network:
               | 
               |  _Desert Raid 2017 - Two Days From Death_
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL44EAyz8Qc
               | 
               | Even today people disappear every year or so on these
               | roads .. some are found, others aren't.
        
               | skissane wrote:
               | If your employer doesn't supply one for that sort of
               | work, they need to be reported to the OH&S authorities.
               | That said, you can always bring your own. If it were my
               | kid in that scenario I'd buy one for them.
               | 
               | Another factor: currently satellite-based SMS is becoming
               | increasingly available - I just got a message from
               | Telstra the other day telling me it had been enabled on
               | my service (using Starlink direct-to-cell). In years to
               | come it is going to become ever more mainstream. So even
               | if you don't have an emergency beacon, so long as you
               | have a sufficiently recent mobile phone...
        
               | defrost wrote:
               | .. then you're golden and just waiting for some one to
               | pop on out the David Carnegie Road, or out into the
               | Tanami.
               | 
               | Communication is only part of the issue here.
               | 
               | In the above linked recent incident the police when
               | contacted couldn't make it out from Kalgoorlie (despite
               | an initial indication) and handed off to a station owner
               | who was able to make a 600 km+ round trip across a broken
               | road to resupply water.
               | 
               | That was lucky, and luck doesn't always land.
        
         | shkkmo wrote:
         | For the curious, I think that number comes from these people
         | and is actually 21.7 miles, includes any kind of drivable
         | surface, (like beaches and unmaintained private roads), and
         | excludes anything that is too wet (like the middle of the great
         | lakes or a flood plain).
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42104894
        
       | linehedonist wrote:
       | Note that all this information is 20 years old and is badly
       | outdated. Many of the facilities mentioned (eg the Nouchimi
       | Outfitters gas station) no longer exist.
       | https://www.facebook.com/TabascoADV/photos/a.696618650541057...
        
         | BeFlatXIII wrote:
         | The most recent update on the homepage is from 2009-03-03.
        
         | williamdclt wrote:
         | I'm fascinated by these. Who are the people operating these
         | places? Where do they live, what's their lifestyle? Who are the
         | customers, what are their stories?
        
           | _verandaguy wrote:
           | I don't have a definitive answer, but there's probably demand
           | for these outside of adventure tourists trying to get to some
           | of the most remote road-connected points in the world.
           | 
           | The James Bay Road exists essentially as a service road for a
           | bunch of hydroelectric infrastructure that's part of Quebec's
           | James Bay Project. I've never gotten past planning a trip up,
           | but I gather much of the traffic on these roads are transport
           | trucks delivering supplies to these remote locations (beyond
           | what can normally be shipped up there by Hydro Quebec's
           | aviation fleet, which as I understand is mostly wet-leased
           | from Air Inuit and can land on many of the unimproved strips
           | near the major project sites).
           | 
           | Anyway, little outposts like these might've been maintained
           | by either Hydro Quebec on an emergency basis for these
           | transports, or by volunteer (sort-of) trail associations, or
           | by the province itself, or a combination of the three.
        
             | xattt wrote:
             | Similarly, the Sultan Industrial Road is a private logging
             | road that saves a few hours of driving on the Trans-Canada
             | between Wawa and Sudbury.
             | 
             | However, amenities, and the likelihood of getting timely
             | help, is low. Take your pick.
        
           | volkl48 wrote:
           | If you want to know what virtually any wildly remote road is
           | like, one of the best places to check is usually where people
           | doing motorcycle/off-road adventures post, like advrider.com
           | 
           | Someone, somewhere, has almost certainly gone there and done
           | that, with pictures, documentation, and enough mentions of
           | other things that you can look up for more details.
           | 
           | On that note, here's a 2021 trip from someone that I read a
           | few months ago:
           | https://forum.expeditionportal.com/threads/riding-the-
           | most-r...
           | 
           | -------
           | 
           | But for a quick summary of what I got out of it/minor
           | additional research:
           | 
           | - A few company (Hydro-Quebec) outposts of a few buildings
           | each for workers out there at the hydro sites that are why
           | the road exists and some rural airstrips for the same
           | purpose. Presumably like any other isolated worksite in that
           | sense.
           | 
           | - An outfitters near the mid-point with lodging, supplies,
           | etc that seems to serve both the workers traveling the route
           | and some tourism. Looks like some very good fishing out there
           | and I see other notes on the internet of people trekking out
           | that way to fish - both indigenous people and tourists. (Also
           | quite pretty if you like the taiga + lakes environment).
           | 
           | - There appear to be some other travel groups that have some
           | private camps in the region and fly people in for fishing via
           | floatplane, too.
           | 
           | - Doesn't appear to be any other permanent settlement along
           | the road.
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | I'm a fan of the Gibb River Road in northern Western Australia,
       | it's around as long, has some beautiful gorges along the way for
       | a little swimming, there's a river crossing at the Pentecost.
       | 
       | There are a few campsites along the way, and there is fuel at
       | around the halfway point, and a town at each end, so it's not
       | quite as far from civilisation as the Trans-taiga, plus you don't
       | have to drive back the same way to get out! It's also
       | significantly warmer, so much so that you want serious sunscreen
       | and bugspray.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibb_River_Road
        
       | petesergeant wrote:
       | I find browsing around the map in remote Canada pretty
       | interesting, especially the number of named settlements for which
       | there appear to be absolutely no information or satellite
       | evidence they exist. Take Roggan River: there's a Wikipedia page
       | claiming it's a small village, and it's on Google Maps, but
       | there's nothing identifiably there, and there's no further
       | information I can find online. The map is littered with these.
        
         | defrost wrote:
         | Only a few of the villages on and about the Amistustikwach will
         | have visible road access and cleared land plots. Many will
         | blend in with the landscape and have river access.
         | 
         | The google map pins are pretty approximate.
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | Can you point to one matching this description on the map?
        
             | defrost wrote:
             | If I took the time to find one, very likely .. it was
             | literally a daily task back in the day when I worked
             | Canadian resource postings for the company that ran [1]
             | before being picked up by Standard and Poor.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaign
             | s/met...
        
         | gdbsjjdn wrote:
         | From personal experience, there's over a dozen fly-in
         | communities in the Northwest Territories. No roads, the only
         | way to reach them is snowmobiling in the winter or taking a
         | plane from Yellowknife.
         | 
         | My understanding is that Northern Quebec and Ontario are
         | similar, lots of very small indigenous communities that still
         | follow pre-colonial practices. They would get supplies by plane
         | or by boat. It's not surprising a settlement with 50 people is
         | hard to find on satellite.
        
       | ghssds wrote:
       | I'm itching all over from all the insect bites only reading that
       | website.
        
       | imaginator wrote:
       | It looks like the road was constructed to serve the four hydro
       | facilities that generate power for Montreal.
       | https://openinframap.org/#7.12/53.8/-74.103/A,B,E,I,L,O,P,T
       | show's the hydro facilities and power lines weaving their way
       | down to Montreal.
        
         | hkleppe wrote:
         | Relatively long distances of road and power transmission lines
         | to reach the two most remote locations. Especially considering
         | they seem to be limited in capacity (only 319 and 469MW).
         | 
         | Curious to know if something bigger was in the plans, or
         | perhaps the road also have/had other uses?
        
           | volkl48 wrote:
           | The piece of the puzzle that you're missing is the dams at
           | the far end of the road divert the Caniapiscau River into the
           | La Grande River, which provides close to half the water that
           | eventually feeds all of the generating stations downstream.
           | 
           | Additionally, the reservoirs formed are important for making
           | the system provide reliable power to match demand - demand
           | for power in Quebec peaks in the coldest parts of winter, and
           | the natural peak of runoff/river flow....is not then.
           | 
           | So, the generation out there is useful but is not the primary
           | reason why the road was built all the way out to there.
           | 
           | --------
           | 
           | No special insight on the difficulty/expense of constructing
           | the transmission, but ~788MW of extremely cheap power forever
           | for constructing/maintaining ~130mi of extra transmission
           | doesn't seem completely improbable to work out financially,
           | especially at the time.
           | 
           | I'll also note:
           | 
           | - Vegetation maintenance costs are probably low given how
           | slow things grow out there.
           | 
           | - This was constructed long before the modern era of
           | cheap(er) renewables.
           | 
           | - Even today, Quebec's location, weather, and time of year of
           | peak demand make the calculation for solar's cost-
           | effectiveness a lot harder.
        
       | rob74 wrote:
       | > _Along this road is also the farthest north point you can
       | travel on a road in eastern Canada._
       | 
       | Not to belittle the remoteness of this road, but I just find it
       | interesting that the farthest north point you can travel on a
       | road in eastern Canada is further south than most of Sweden (not
       | to mention Norway or Iceland, which also have very extensive road
       | networks). Another reminder of how important the Gulf Stream is
       | for the climate of Europe...
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | There's that and of course the sheer lack of people who live in
         | that vast wilderness larger than Sweden.
        
           | southernplaces7 wrote:
           | >There's that and of course the sheer lack of people who live
           | in that vast wilderness larger than Sweden.
           | 
           | If you're referring to just Northern Quebec, then sure, the
           | area is maybe a bit larger than Sweden, but if you're
           | referring to northern canada, meaning all of its territories
           | above the provinces, then that's a whole different thing. You
           | could fit much off central and western Europe into that
           | region with room to spare.
        
         | nucleardog wrote:
         | Might be less surprising once you hear what Canadians mean when
         | they say "Eastern Canada".
         | 
         | Canada's divided almost exactly in half with the top half (48%
         | of the land area) being the territories (Yukon, Northwest
         | Territory, Nunavut; collectively "Northern Canada") and the
         | bottom half being the provinces.
         | 
         | When people say "Eastern Canada", they're referring to the
         | Eastern provinces (Ontario, Quebec, the maritimes), and have
         | already excluded the entire Northern half of the country. The
         | nothernmost point of Eastern Canada is barely further north
         | than the southern tip of Finland.
         | 
         | However if you look at Northern Canada, there's stuff like
         | Alert, NU with roads and an air strip which is the northernmost
         | continuously inhabited place in the world. It sits more than
         | 1200km further north than the northernmost tip of Scandinavia.
         | 
         | My favourite Canadian geography fact: Canada shares borders
         | with three countries. Two of those are land borders.
        
           | widforss wrote:
           | the US, Denmark and France?
        
             | nucleardog wrote:
             | You got it.
             | 
             | After a long, protracted dispute with Denmark where we sent
             | our respective militaries out to Hans Island to give each
             | other gifts of Whiskey and Schnapps (known as "The Whisky
             | War"), we finally settled on drawing a border down the
             | middle of the island giving Canada and Greenland/Denmark a
             | land border.
             | 
             | Canada shares a maritime border with France at St Pierre
             | and Miquelon, a few islands off the coast of Newfoundland
             | that are a French overseas territory.
        
           | sorokod wrote:
           | One of those countries has its longest land border in South
           | America
        
         | gosub100 wrote:
         | I think it's also because of water. There is too much water in
         | the northeast - central to make permanent roads.
        
         | lastofthemojito wrote:
         | > Along this road is also the farthest north point you can
         | travel on a road in eastern Canada.
         | 
         | There's always so much room for pedantry with statements like
         | that. If eastern Canada includes Labrador (which it generally
         | does), the town of Nain (which is further north) has roads that
         | people drive cars on: https://maps.app.goo.gl/b1saMzzXKDQrHZQy6
         | 
         | Nain isn't connected to the rest of Canada's road network
         | though, so it depends if one really means something like:
         | 
         | "this is as far north as I can take a long road trip in eastern
         | Canada" or "this is as far north as I can be in a car, on a
         | road, in eastern Canada, even if it is just a 1km ride from the
         | airport on one side of town to the hotel on the other"
        
         | cgh wrote:
         | Re your Gulf Stream comment: Whitehorse, Yukon is roughly at
         | the same latitude as Bergen, Norway. Bergen's climate is
         | temperate and similar to, say, Vancouver: rainy, a bit of snow
         | in winter, rarely staying below freezing for long. The coldest
         | temperature recorded is -17deg back in 1987.
         | 
         | Whitehorse's average daily low in winter is close to -20deg,
         | with common drops to around -40deg. When I was a kid up in that
         | area, I remember walking to school at around -30 to -40deg. We
         | also played outside in those temps, which seems a bit mad now.
         | 
         | Here's the fun part: Whitehorse has the warmest climate in the
         | Yukon.
         | 
         | I get that there are other factors, like coastal vs inland
         | environments, but regardless, any disruption to the Gulf Stream
         | is bad news indeed for Europe.
        
       | smikhanov wrote:
       | no settlements or towns aside from Hydro Quebec's settlements for
       | workers (these are private and are not open to the public - they
       | will kick you out)
       | 
       | Will they really kick a passing driver out when it's freezing
       | outside? Heck, wherever the population is this sparse and
       | conditions are this harsh people normally _actively invite_ you
       | to their places. This sounds so weird.
        
         | mousethatroared wrote:
         | It's a way to get cheap tourists from invading?
        
           | rob74 wrote:
           | Well, I mean, the touristic potential of a gravel road with
           | 666 km of taiga scenery is a bit limited (if you have seen
           | the first 20 km, you can probably imagine the remaining 646
           | pretty well). And I say this as someone who has been to
           | Iceland recently...
        
             | mousethatroared wrote:
             | But when there's only four houses every hundred km, a dozen
             | dumb tourists become a very big nuisance.
        
         | nsavage wrote:
         | As bad as it sounds, I'm guessing this policy is because of the
         | indigenous peoples who live in the area and not wanting to
         | create a pattern.
        
       | deadbabe wrote:
       | There are many cautions, but this road is nothing that a group of
       | 4x4s couldn't handle, perhaps in one day.
        
       | wmitty wrote:
       | One of the most memorable cycle touring blogs I have read is of
       | Bill St Onge's tour down this road.
       | 
       | In addition to the natural difficulty of cycling this extremely
       | remote road (both ways), he was dousing himself in so much bug
       | repellent that his heart was constantly racing (he thought he was
       | going to have a heart attack) and he was hallucinating (IIRC) a
       | giant bear that was stalking him.
       | 
       | He has taken the blog down, so I can't link it - presumably
       | because he has published a book - https://www.amazon.com/Cycling-
       | Quebecs-Trans-Taiga-Road-Wild...
        
         | Lio wrote:
         | As soon as I read "gravel road" I instantly started thinking
         | about what it would be like to cycle it. I think I'm going to
         | have to get hold of that book.
        
       | vaindil wrote:
       | I absolutely _love_ websites like this that have a ton of
       | information about a very niche topic. No ads or monetization,
       | just someone who put together a very detailed website about
       | something they love.
       | 
       | I think my first encounter with a website like this was for the
       | movie Donnie Darko, which I found after I first watched the movie
       | and was trying to understand the story. The website is still up!
       | [0]
       | 
       | If anyone has examples of similar websites, I would absolutely
       | love to read them.
       | 
       | [0] http://www.donniedarko.org.uk
        
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