[HN Gopher] Evolution of Minimum Viable Product
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       Evolution of Minimum Viable Product
        
       Author : johnxie
       Score  : 22 points
       Date   : 2025-07-02 18:51 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (raspasov.posthaven.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (raspasov.posthaven.com)
        
       | daft_pink wrote:
       | This really just shows you need people with domain knowledge of
       | whatever you are writing to be on the team whenever you are
       | developing software.
        
       | themanmaran wrote:
       | > Now think about a bad software product that you might encounter
       | briefly or you are forced to use: a poorly designed electronic
       | kiosk with 1000ms lag on every interaction, or a hospital
       | electronic system. I think there's a high chance that the people
       | building them rarely use them, or not at all.
       | 
       | To be fair, it would be hard for me to build hospital EHR
       | software if I were also checking myself into the hospital every
       | day.
       | 
       | At my former company we built software for enrolling seniors into
       | Medicare. It was as polished as we could possibly make it, but
       | none of the engineers were 65+ and so pretty hard to dogfood.
        
         | rickydroll wrote:
         | I'm one of those people who take the bright, shiny trinket that
         | engineers love to show off and, after a few moments, make it
         | start oozing a brown, smelly fluid as I find the flaws.
         | 
         | Another area where people don't dog food anywhere near enough
         | is handicapped accessibility. It's a catch-22 situation where
         | people like me can't write code because their hands or eyes
         | don't work correctly, and those who have the physical ability
         | to write code don't use accessibility tools.
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | Dogfooding is good but I abide by a different definition of MVP.
       | Minimal describes the feature set (go to market with your
       | differentiators). Viability is determined by the value added by
       | the product relative to the competition. The greater the
       | competition and the less differentiated the product, the more
       | compelling and polished it needs to be viable.
        
         | 4b11b4 wrote:
         | viability relative to others is a better lens
        
       | jasonthorsness wrote:
       | I agree 100% that a product is way better off when used actively
       | by the creators and/or those with extremely low-effort access to
       | the creators. It's a bit weird to call it an "improved
       | definition" though. It's more like how to set your MVP up for
       | successful iteration and growth.
       | 
       | Some products (like most of my own side projects) are ONLY ever
       | used by their creator :P.
        
       | inerte wrote:
       | There's a better term for what a MVP should be. MVP implies a
       | minimum set of features you _have_ to develop otherwise users
       | won't touch. The problem is agreeing what this minimum is... in
       | startups that's easier because you have to launch, in big
       | companies the MVP what 13 stakeholders want it to be.
       | 
       | I like Minimum Learning Product, or MLP - what's the minimum you
       | need to launch to start learning? To do user surveys, analytics,
       | get feedback on? You might not even have enough users to really
       | run an A/B test yet, but it captures better the idea of launching
       | small and iterating, anchoring it in listening to your users.
        
       | godelski wrote:
       | The problem I see is that investing is happening before even
       | basic demonstrations. Billions of dollars are being given to
       | people who haven't even put together a slide deck.
       | 
       | Worse! We're throwing money at people who haven't done the basics
       | AND experts are highly confident will fail. All while ignoring
       | those with viable prototypes who need money to scale...
       | 
       | But what really gets me is that it's become commonplace to just
       | fake tech demos. Demo is short for "demonstration" not
       | "illustration"! You can do a "this is our vision" and that's
       | fine, but you can't fucking call that a demo. Calling it a demo
       | is a lie. Calling it a vision is not. It really isn't that hard
       | to stay within the ethical lines here
        
         | turbofreak wrote:
         | Sir, this is Hacker News.
        
         | MangoToupe wrote:
         | A fool and his money are soon parted.
        
       | jbs789 wrote:
       | My perspective is more as a small business founder creating an
       | app to solve real world problems in a small market, rather than a
       | VC/Silicon Valley. (So I don't know for sure how my views stack
       | with "conventional" business wisdom. Maybe smarter people
       | disagree.)
       | 
       | I observe or believe that an MVP (product and strategy) exists in
       | the context of the current time and marketplace, with a view to
       | figuring out how the customer responds to it, so has evolved over
       | time as the customer expectations have matured.
        
       | nico wrote:
       | > An early, basic version of a product (such as a piece of
       | technology, a computer program, etc.) which meets the minimum
       | necessary requirements for use by its creators and customers
       | 
       | The keyword here is _customers_
       | 
       | If you are building something for others, which you expect to
       | make money from, then you should probably be thinking about a
       | Minimum Sellable Product - what is the most basic product that a
       | very specific target user or group of target users, will pay for.
       | Or at the very least the target users must be willing (and
       | ideally eager) to use the product "for real" (eg. for work or
       | daily personal use)
       | 
       | This means your MVP or MSP, could very well be just a
       | spreadsheet, or a basic document, as long as it's clearly
       | targeting specific people who want/need to use it
        
       | ozim wrote:
       | Huh?
       | 
       | I have seen the worst imaginable software UX used and cherished
       | by people when it was doing the job.
       | 
       | I have seen great UI/UX go away as people did not handle it.
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | 100%. I have also seen software used and hated (sap?
         | salesforce? even jira?) because they were first in their niche
         | or because who knows why.
        
       | DantesKite wrote:
       | The best mental model of MVP I have found is that it is in some
       | sense a science experiment and you're trying to test a specific
       | hypothesis as efficiently as possible with the resources you
       | have, because you ultimately don't know what's going to work.
        
       | Sparkyte wrote:
       | A minimum viable product that is very large and takes years to
       | get out is just scope creep disguised as minimum viable product.
       | 
       | Minimum viable product used to mean, "What do we build that hooks
       | a customer immediately?". It is about getting them engaged and
       | learning from their engagement to then build features onto the
       | MVP.
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | > Now think about a bad software product that you might encounter
       | briefly or you are _forced_ to use: a poorly designed electronic
       | kiosk with 1000ms lag on every interaction, or a hospital
       | electronic system. I think there 's a high chance that the people
       | building them rarely use them, or not at all.
       | 
       |  _looks at Adobe Illustrator_
       | 
       |  _picks up the manual for Creature House Expression, a 2003
       | natural media vector editor just oozing with better and more
       | thoughtful implementations of things Illustrator still barely
       | does, bought by Microsoft and killed_
       | 
       |  _sighs_
        
       | cadamsdotcom wrote:
       | There's also the concept of Minimum _Lovable_ Product.
       | 
       | The first iphone for example, was very barebones: slow EDGE
       | internet, only a few apps, very low powered device. But people
       | loved it because the things it did well it did very well- for
       | instance it was a beautiful touchscreen that always remained
       | silky smooth. The feeling of sliding something and having it
       | _stay under your finger_ really tricks your brain in a way
       | nothing did before, and is so good you forget the weaknesses and
       | missing features.
        
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       (page generated 2025-07-02 23:00 UTC)