[HN Gopher] Schizophrenia Is the Price We Pay for Minds Poised N...
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Schizophrenia Is the Price We Pay for Minds Poised Near the Edge of
a Cliff
Author : Anon84
Score : 35 points
Date : 2025-06-28 21:22 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.psychiatrymargins.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.psychiatrymargins.com)
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Why does no-one dare say "schizotypy?"
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy
| crawfordcomeaux wrote:
| It's dangerous to existing systems for people to become aware
| they're capable of creating/conjuring/channeling useful new
| voices in the mind to help learn different things. People get
| burned at the stake for that.
| bad_haircut72 wrote:
| I've never ever had any symptoms of schizophrenia but the
| idea of trying to consciously encourage myself hearing voices
| is terrifying, Im sure I could send myself truly insane with
| probably not much effort.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| My belief about is that the core of schizotypy and
| schizophrenia is
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_disorder
|
| as did Eugen Bleuler. I have a friend who is schizophrenic
| whose speech hardly makes sense and she is always calling
| people on the phone and carrying on nonsensical
| conversations. Somehow the general public is hung up on
| 'hearing voices' but I have never once heard a voice but
| under stress I (schizotypal) did once spend about six
| months under the influence of a 'system of delusions' yet
| stayed mostly functional, kept working, and managed to
| avoid getting in serious trouble.
|
| I think it is quite ordinary also for people to have a
| dialogue with an 'invisible friend' or believe that they
| 'talk to God' when they pray, the auditory hallucinations
| of schizophrenia seem to be something like you have a
| thought that you don't think is your thought but somebody
| else talking, notably schizophrenics often believe that
| somebody is putting thoughts into them or taking thoughts
| out of them, see
|
| https://www.theairloom.org/mindcontrol.php
| DiscourseFan wrote:
| It's like gang-stalking--its not that there's something
| being introduced, but rather that the subject sees
| relations that are not objective relations (like, for
| instance, the relation between temperature, pressure, and
| state change). Typically, however (and I can't imagine a
| case where this _didn 't_ happen), the relations are
| _social_ in character--and since social relations are
| subjective to the extent that all the social world is not
| expressly a fact, it can be difficult to differentiate
| between an illusion and a reality: people imagine their
| partners are cheating on them, whether or not its true.
| And there are many things we do not know about the social
| world around us; but, statistically speaking, nobody has
| ever actually been gang-stalked.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > the idea of trying to consciously encourage myself
| hearing voices is terrifying,
|
| This is not unreasonable.
|
| It could be _less awful_ if the voices were positive and
| not harsh and negative. Schizophrenics outside the US were
| found to have a more benign relationship with their voices.
| The striking difference was that while many of the African
| and Indian subjects registered predominantly positive
| experiences with their voices, not one American
| did. Rather, the U.S. subjects were more likely to
| report experiences as violent and hateful - and
| evidence of a sick condition.
|
| ref: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2014/07/voices-
| culture-luh...
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Dangerous to the autism-industrial complex and as well as the
| addictive stimulant industry.
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > addictive stimulant industry.
|
| Whom I thank every day for repairing my retention
| processes, just enough that lessons become learning.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| Is this supposed to be some kind of diss for adhd stimulant
| therapy?
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Gotta a friend who's 52 and has all his teeth rot out 10
| years ago. He goes to Wegmans every month and comes back
| with a pill bottle the size of a small trashcan. He says
| he could get nothing done without out but I don't see him
| getting anything done. Wouldn't be surprised if will fall
| and break his hip 20 years early.
|
| I've seen plenty of those pills get diverted with
| outcomes like somebody stays up for 4 days and gets
| hospitalized so, yeah, I want to diss ADHD medication. It
| is clear it helps in the short term, not so clear if it
| helps in the long term.
| fragmede wrote:
| How scientific.
| gfody wrote:
| many people hear voices and experience symptoms of
| schizophrenia while managing to keep their cool and thrive
| amongst the nerts. hearing-voices.org is a support network for
| such people
| JamesBarney wrote:
| If genes that increase schizophrenic risk increases cognitive
| abilities you should find people who have high polygenic scores
| for schizophrenia without having schizophrenia test well on these
| cognitive abilities. I'm not aware of any of data that shows this
| in a convincing matter. I think I've seen a few small studies but
| nothing that replicated this on a large scale. And most of the
| studies show they score worse on cognitive abilities.
|
| The only conclusions I've come to are one of the following.
|
| 1. They improve cognitive abilities in some way we aren't good at
| measuring. 2. There is something about our modern environment
| that is more likely to trigger schizophrenia which has more
| recently increased the fitness penalty these genes confer.
| jonahbard wrote:
| I wonder if Autism would be even simpler to explain with a cliff-
| edged fitness function. Because there seems to be a high
| correlation between extremely intelligent people and people on
| the spectrum. Maybe the group of genes rewarded for high
| intelligence/creativity/quantitative ability also, by accidental
| design, inhibits social capacity.
| hyperhello wrote:
| Is it possible that every non-typical presentation simply tells
| others in society to give them space enough to develop the
| intellect?
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Maybe it does when you are an adult but it can make childhood
| a disaster.
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| I think people should study the RCCX gene cluster and link to
| giftedness more, I have TNXB SNPs which results in hEDS, but C4
| SNPs have a similar effect and is likely to result in
| Schizophrenia. There are some cross over symptoms such as
| dopamine dysregulation and flat affect. I think dysautonomia and
| auto-immune plays a big part. Our lifestyles are very different
| than they used to be and this could be exacerbating auto-immune
| issues and as we get better at treating auto-immune conditions I
| expect we'll get better at treating Schizophrenia.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| Is there some puzzling chronic condition that isn't on this
| list?
|
| https://me-pedia.org/wiki/RCCX_Genetic_Module_Theory
| cjbgkagh wrote:
| Of course there are. I'm guessing you're insinuating two
| things, it's highly improbable that individuals can have this
| many simultaneous issues, and it's impossible for medical
| researchers to miss such an anomaly. The Ehlers Danlos subset
| is shorter but still covers a huge amount of issues
| (https://ohtwist.com/about-eds/comorbidities).
|
| Well there is a reason why doctors kept telling me I am a
| hypochondriac, but I do have a whole zoo of conditions
| simultaneously, and this is a pretty common state for people
| with hEDS and I'm on the extreme end of it. So while milder
| versions of it are ~2% of the population the extreme versions
| of it are < 1/20K.
|
| And yeah, medical researchers are in fact in the aggregate
| really bad at their jobs. Look how long it took to convince
| surgeons to wash their hands. But a lot of the genetic stuff
| relies on Linear Regression for GWAS which assumes
| independents of SNPs, otherwise you get multicollinearity
| problems, this is not a safe assumption and they've confused
| their results as confirming their assumptions. Instead of
| listing everything they get wrong a much shorter list is what
| they get right, Dr Jessica Eccles (https://x.com/BendyBrain)
| does great research into Long Covid and Generalized Joint
| Hypermobility which should put to be the theory that GJH is
| benign - still good luck trying to talk a doctor out of that
| train of thought.
|
| If you find someone who has hEDS the odds are they have a
| very large number of those things and most of them don't even
| know the names of most of the conditions, just one or two
| that bother them the most. The RCCX / hEDS list is a distinct
| subset of all possible things, the list of all medical
| maladies is far longer. It becomes highly improbable that a
| set of people have the same set of maladies - doctors tend to
| chalk this up to social contagion but that doesn't bear out.
| Genetic and behavioral diffusions show up very distinctly.
|
| It's confirmable with WGS which I've done and I've encouraged
| many others to do and it turns out that you can indeed
| predict with a great deal or reliability if someone has TNXB
| / CYP21A2 SNPs. Unfortunately it's harder to find people who
| have C4 since they're likely to have schizophrenia and I've
| lost contact with them.
| suzzer99 wrote:
| I've lost one of my best friends to what I think is
| schizophrenia. We don't know because she's cut off all contact
| with friends and family and refuses to see a doctor. It's
| definitely psychosis. She thinks she's in some kind of Truman
| show that she calls "the game". Since none of her friends or
| family are willing to admit to it, then we must be in on it.
|
| We don't know her full family medical history because her dad was
| adopted. I do know that she was "microdosing" and macro-dosing
| hallucinogens for years. Mostly acid and shrooms as far as I
| know. She followed the band Phish around with a group of friends.
| I can't imagine most of those shows were sober.
|
| We've also seen a few incidents of paranoia when she was under
| the influence of drugs/alcohol going back decades. So it feels
| like this was always there in some form, but maybe the estrogen
| was holding it back before menopause hit. I read an article about
| women who get schizophrenia after menopause that suggested this
| could be the case.
|
| Anyway, whenever I see wellness healers and the like extolling
| the virtues of psilocybin, I want to point out that there could
| be a downside. We don't know that all of her hallucinogen use
| over the years contributed to this. But it's certainly a
| possibility.
| winrid wrote:
| If you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia it's
| starting to seem like drugs that seem harmless like marijuana
| (specifically THC?) can definitely bring it out. At least,
| that's what seemed to happen to my mother and another friend.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| I also suspect people with schizophrenia that haven't yet
| started showing symptoms are more likely to take drugs.
| tony69 wrote:
| In Europe this (some rec drugs bring out latent
| schizophrenia) is taught in med school as a "known fact"
| (source: psychiatrist friend) so it's well beyond "starting
| to seem"
| Throwaway42754 wrote:
| I have schizoaffective disorder, induced by a bad trip from
| marijuana. It was like the 3rd time I had tried weed, and I
| naively took too much.
|
| For me psychosis feels like pattern matching going on extreme
| overdrive, while at the same time memory goes to shit. It's truly
| an awful illness, and what's worse is that the current medical
| treatments are bad. I've been fortunate enough where I can get by
| on a low dose olanzapine, but for many people they simply don't
| work at all.
|
| Even though I'm doing well enough to function normally and hold
| down a good, well paying job, it's impossible to find a partner.
| If I were to have kids, I would have to go through one of the
| embryo prescreening services. I am strongly in support of these
| screening services - the disease is truly horrible.
|
| There has been little progress on treatments for schizophrenia,
| the mechanism of action of these drugs has remained the same for
| decades. The side effects are almost as bad as the disease, which
| is why so many schizophrenic stop taking them. The only novel
| medication recently released is Cobenfy, which I have not tried
| yet.
|
| Personally I am holding out hope that schizophrenia has some
| basis as an autoimmune disease. There was a cancer patient who
| had a bone marrow transplant and ended up being cured:
| https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/opinion/sunday/schizophre...
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I have family with that.
|
| The most striking thing, is the _absolute certainty_ of the
| thinking. They feel as if their thinking is crystal-clear, and
| that they are the only one that "sees the patterns."
|
| Currently, they're doing well. I know of others, that are not
| so fortunate.
|
| It seems that pot is about the _worst_ thing that a
| schizoaffective /schizophrenic person can use. They are better
| off chewing tabs of acid. I've not used it in about 45 years,
| and I've heard that today's pot is a heck of a lot stronger
| than what I remember.
| damion6 wrote:
| Schizophrenia is genetic. So you're born with it. This makes zero
| sense. Maybe you mean shizo-effective which usually has to do
| with traumas.
| 11217mackem wrote:
| Nobody is born with schizophrenia.
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