[HN Gopher] The Effect of Noise on Sleep
___________________________________________________________________
The Effect of Noise on Sleep
Author : brandonb
Score : 136 points
Date : 2025-06-27 13:03 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.empirical.health)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.empirical.health)
| jabo wrote:
| Wonder if white noise counts as noise from this perspective. Or
| if it's mainly unexpected noises that make sleep quality worse.
| rybosworld wrote:
| In many animals, hearing gets less sensitive in general when
| they sleep. I think it's common for people to be surprised by
| that, but it works that way to maximize sleep function.
|
| Dog's are thought to be an exception, because part of their
| domestication involved selection for the offspring that was
| more alert (watch dogs).
|
| The brain is thought to be hyper sensitive to a certain subset
| of sounds while sleeping, such as babies crying.
|
| White noise is thought to work by drowning out the sounds we
| are most sensitive to.
| foobarian wrote:
| > threshold effect: keeping bedroom sound levels beneath the
| low-60s dB (roughly the volume of normal conversation)
|
| A common source matching this description would be having a TV on
| in the bedroom.
| lm2s wrote:
| Would love to know what kind of noise and sound level was used
| for this test. Was it a continuous monotonous noise (such as
| white/pink/brown noise) at a fixed volume? Or was it some random
| noise that would "pop-up" randomly?
|
| Does anyone know?
|
| I would imagine that a noise that would randomly "pop-up" would
| be worse. But would be curious if that's not the case.
| brandonb wrote:
| This was ambient noise in the room, as measured by an Apple
| Watch. So "random," real world noises that pop up, as opposed
| to a controlled level of white noise.
| cheeseomlit wrote:
| That's also what I was wondering- I sleep with a fan on for the
| white noise, otherwise I sleep very poorly if at all. I wonder
| if that sort of 'covers up' the spikes in noise you'd be
| hearing if the room were otherwise silent
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| +1 also thought about this.
|
| Something like the variability of noise (eg, maybe figure out
| the 25th percentile dbs across the night, and then count the
| spikes above that? or maybe count the number of times the slope
| goes above a certain value indicating sharp rises in volume
| that would disturb someone?)
|
| I also would love to simply see the data based on the average
| of "N loudest moment(s)" during the sleep. eg: treat the dbs
| score for that night as the average of the N loudest moments
| over the night, and plot a series of graphs that show various
| values of N. (or make it 3d, but i've found many folks are not
| capable of reading those kinds of graphs)
| proee wrote:
| So just use some good quality earplugs?
| kogus wrote:
| I personally would not be able to sleep well with earplugs. The
| feeling of pressure in my ears, combined with the 'pushing' of
| the earplug if I rolled over to lay on my side would be very
| uncomfortable.
| ay wrote:
| Try "3M earplugs yellow" on amazon. They are pretty much
| fully immersed in the ear (for me), and the insulation is
| very good. The pressure - yeah it took maybe a few days to
| get used to, but...
|
| The effects for me (living in Brussels city centre, so quite
| noisy - police, ambulance, sometimes loud tourists past
| midnight, and a bit of construction at 6am nearby to keep it
| real :-) ) were very pronounced:
|
| From needing 9 hours and feeling groggy in the mornings
| anyway, to easily going on 7-8, feeling very refreshed and
| alert each day.
|
| A cool side effect was that this superpower works also while
| traveling - so, I no longer care how noisy the airco is in
| the hotel room, being next to the lift, or having the window
| above the lively bar.
|
| The only downside with those earplugs that they are good
| maybe for 3-4 nights and then are too squished to be useful;
| but the upsides more than make it up for me.
| modo_mario wrote:
| It's rare for me to encounter another Belgian on HN but
| I'll definitely try this. Sleeping roadside till i have my
| upper floor renovated has been a disaster for my sleep and
| functioning.
| rickydroll wrote:
| I've tried the squishy foam earplugs, and they always fall
| out. Other suggestions, such as silicone and custom
| earplugs, are something I'm going to try. Let's see if they
| help.
|
| However, what destroys my sleep is the light from early
| morning, streetlights, and the neighbor's porch light.
| Unfortunately, our bedroom faces southeast and features
| French doors that open onto an east-facing three-season
| porch, allowing sunlight to stream in. Yeah, I've got
| curtains everywhere, and I have room-darkening curtains on
| order. If those don't work, the next step is putting solar
| panels over my bedroom windows. I figure if I'm going to
| keep light out, I might as well put it to work some other
| way.
|
| As an experiment, I'm using my car camping mattress in my
| office, which is the quietest room in the house, and I'm
| blocking the light from the windows with curtains and
| cardboard. So far, it's the best sleep I've had in years.
| There's a bit of domestic disharmony now, but hopefully my
| partner and I can work out a compromise on light-blocking
| curtains and keeping them fucking shut.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| Have you tried a blackout sleep mask? I had to try a few
| to find one which consistently stays in place overnight
| and doesn't put any pressure on my eyes, but once I found
| one it solved all light-related problems for me.
| rickydroll wrote:
| I've tried them, and they don't work for me. They trigger
| a bit of claustrophobia. I sleep with a full-face CPAP
| mask, and I'm not sure I can take anything more strapped
| to my face.
| thinkharderdev wrote:
| My wife started snoring pretty badly while she was
| pregnant so ended up buying these earplugs
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DPH7HNT1. I've never been
| able to sleep in the foam earplugs as they either fall
| out or the pressure starts to really irritate after a
| while, but these don't put pressure and they stay in all
| night. They're also really block out noise.
| rickydroll wrote:
| Thanks, adding them to the list of things to try
| jks wrote:
| These custom earplugs are the most comfortable I've ever
| worn:
|
| https://www.elacin.com/your-perfect-fit/leisure/relax-
| sleep/
| rickydroll wrote:
| Nice. Which model do you use? And do they sell them in
| the U.S.? Not that I would mind making a trip overseas
| and getting away from the insanity here for a little
| while, but it adds to the cost.
| zeta0134 wrote:
| I've found success with silicon plugs, typically marketed at
| swimmers. They're like little balls of soft material that you
| roll up and squish over the entrance, without inserting into
| the ear. They lay pretty flat and I can sleep on my side with
| them in. Now that my third neighbor in a row has acquired the
| loudest, most constantly barking outdoor dog imaginable, I
| functionally cannot sleep without them.
| kevlened wrote:
| This was my experience until I purchased custom molded
| earplugs a year ago. It's one of the best purchases I've
| made. They're superior to off-the-shelf plugs in many ways:
|
| 1. They don't fall out, because they "hook into" the shape of
| your ear.
|
| 2. They sit much closer to the inner ear, so they feel
| invisible when side-sleeping.
|
| 3. It's a perfect fit every time, so you don't have to worry
| about noise leakage or discomfort caused by pressure.
|
| If you don't want to spend $200 on a pair of plugs from an
| audiologist (I'd strongly urge you to reconsider!), the best
| off-the-shelf alternative for me was silicone plugs. To solve
| the side-sleeping problem with silicone plugs, you can tear
| them in half or use children's versions depending on your ear
| canal size.
| MengerSponge wrote:
| +1 to "get custom molded earplugs"
|
| If enjoy and pay to see live music, you should spring for a
| set of "musician's earplugs". They're molded just like
| safety/sleeping earplugs, but they use a flat 10-15dB
| attenuating filter. They make the music quieter without
| distorting it.
|
| Symphony players wear them because brass/percussion is loud
| enough to cause hearing damage with hours of exposure. I've
| sung in mine for Easter morning services where I was wedged
| between a celebratory trumpet and an organ with all the
| stops out.
|
| They're not cheap, but they're not very expensive in the
| world of Ticketmaster fees.
| etrautmann wrote:
| I've found that I need to use low profile earbuds (max rock)
| with brown noise to both block sounds and mask them. It's
| helped a ton for sleep quality.
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| thoughts on the safety of that wrt firealarms / home security?
|
| Also similarly for parents? (kids/baby crying)
|
| I've mostly been YOLOing it so far, but worry that once I'm not
| single (no kids) it won't be acceptable.
| mmahemoff wrote:
| I think you'll still hear any relevant alarms. Earplugs are
| better than nothing, but really aren't fabulous at blocking
| noise the way eye-masks are.
|
| For hearing-impaired people, there are alarms based on
| flashing and vibration which you could look into if it's a
| concern.
| uludag wrote:
| Having been using earplugs sleeping for the past three years,
| you will definitely hear things like alarms. Even our babies
| crying will consistently wake me up. With our baby, when it
| was my time to rest, having earplugs made a huge difference
| in terms of sleep quality.
| Havoc wrote:
| Even really cheap foam ones make a massive difference. They go
| iffy after a couple nights though
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| Having ear plugs in for that long feels like an ice pick
| digging into my skull. Don't know about anyone else.
| darajava wrote:
| Probably a size issue. I had earplugs that were too big that
| start hurting after a while. I've since found smaller ones
| that work perfectly.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| I prefer the ear-muff style circumaural ones. I have to
| wear hearing protection frequently at work and have several
| pairs of Pro-For-Sho muffs.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| I've never found ear plugs which are comfortable inside my
| ear canal for more than a few hours (including some extra-
| small child ones), but the silicone ones which cover the
| opening rather than being inserted into the ear work well for
| me. They don't block sound as well but it's still a very
| noticeable difference.
| tobyhinloopen wrote:
| I find this hard to believe this is universally true. I sleep
| much worse without noise. I use a fan or a speaker to add noise
| to the room. If I don't, I wake up constantly.
| mrob wrote:
| That could be because your added noise is masking other noise
| with worse effects.
| brandonb wrote:
| This is an interesting hypotheses--I think we could test it by
| looking at intra-night variance in noise. I'll try to do a
| follow up!
| hugeBirb wrote:
| White noise and wave sounds != A motorcycle with the loudest
| exhaust imaginable blasting by your house going 100mph at 3am
| thm wrote:
| Advertorial w/ PG name-drop.
| stavros wrote:
| I've been having issues sleeping lately, and a few days ago, the
| flat below us started demolishing walls at 8am. This has been
| going on for a week, and I've never slept better. It sounds like
| they're demolishing the floor I'm sleeping on, but somehow I can
| just ignore it and sleep soundly, whereas normally I wake up with
| the smallest sound, like a dog barking outside my soundproof
| windows.
|
| Very odd.
| lurking_swe wrote:
| Maybe record it for an hour or so. Then after the construction
| stops you can play it back as "soothing" sleep noise. ;)
| Kerbonut wrote:
| That's like Joe Pesci in My Cousin Vinny where he stays
| overnight in a cabin and wakes up and freaks out at every
| little noise, but when he's held in contempt and there's a
| prison riot going on, he's sleeping like a baby.
| codyb wrote:
| I can't tell you what sirens outside do to my sleep, but I can
| tell you they can be very agitating when I'm trying to fall
| asleep.
|
| It's funny though how during the recent heat dome I could barely
| sleep after sealing the windows cause of just how dang quiet it
| was!
|
| Fickle mistress sleep be.
| bumby wrote:
| A couple things:
|
| 1) I'd like to see additional measures beyond dB. A 50dB
| consistent white noise does not bother me (and may even enhance
| my sleep) but an intermittent off/on sound of the same magnitude
| has a very different effect
|
| 2) what is the accuracy of the consumer metrics compared to
| medical benchmarks? In other words, how reliable are the sleep
| measures of consumer devices? Anecdotally, I've noticed my watch
| thinks I'm sleeping sometimes when I watch a movie, and I've
| heard MDs say the metrics aren't accurate enough to make strong
| conclusions.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Yes i always sleep with a nature sound generator. It's
| comforting.
| thesuitonym wrote:
| It would also be interesting to see the effects of intermittent
| noise when there is ambient background noise.
| willsmith72 wrote:
| yes, that would be nice to have. but surely the data we have
| already would suggest for the benefit of our entire society,
| especially children (with the link between good sleep and
| mental development), we should incentivise thicker windows,
| better sills and other quick wins now
| bumby wrote:
| To the point above, we should be careful about making strong
| conclusions if there is a lot of uncertainty in the
| underlying data.
| willsmith72 wrote:
| On the contrary, we gain more by making faster decisions
| than we do by being 100% precise
| bumby wrote:
| Nobody claimed we need 100% precision (or, more to the
| point, 100% certainty). But I would argue the level of
| our convictions should be proportional to the risk and
| level of certainty.
|
| To the point being made, for most Americans the cost of
| updating your building envelope and fenestration is
| relatively high. Yet if we look at the accuracy of the
| data (compared to the medical device standard), it's
| moderate accuracy. So we're taking a high risk for
| something that we're only moderately confident will work.
| That's not a good tradeoff. There may be interventions
| that are lower risk that make for a more balanced
| approach.
|
| "Move fast and break things" as a general philosophy is a
| risk-blind approach.
| willsmith72 wrote:
| This isn't the first study on noise and sleep, in fact
| it's barely scientific compared to the rest of the
| research.
|
| There is no scientific disagreement as to the
| correlation, it's just "how big" and "what specifically".
|
| Compare the downside of "smaller impact than expected"
| with the cost of delay and it's a no-brainer
| bumby wrote:
| > _smaller impact than expected_
|
| Yes, it's about both effect size and uncertainty. That's
| science. But your original post also brought policy into
| play. Unless you actually know that uncertainty, effect
| size, and those costs (including opportunity costs),
| you're just making stuff up because "it just makes sense
| so it must be true." That's neither good science, nor
| good policy.
|
| Advocating for big policy changes (like changing building
| codes) without understanding those aspects is like
| jumping into a pool headfirst before knowing the depth.
| brandonb wrote:
| #1 is a great idea for follow-up -- looking at variance, 90th
| percentile vs median, and so on. There's probably some very
| salient measure of sleep-affecting noise that we can derive
| from the data.
|
| On the accuracy of sleep metrics, when Apple Watch makes an
| error, it tends to misclassify deep or REM sleep as core
| (light) sleep, or waking as light sleep. It's relatively rare
| to misclassify deep or REM sleep as awake, or deep as REM (and
| vice versa). That's partly why we focus on those specific sleep
| metrics. You can see a full confusion matrix here:
| https://www.empirical.health/metrics/deep-sleep-percent#accu...
| bumby wrote:
| Thanks! That's great information. Do you have any data on how
| that performance compares to medical-grade devices?
| brandonb wrote:
| The confusion matrix linked above compares the Apple Watch
| to polysomnography equipment (which is the medical device
| used in a sleep lab). It doesn't _quite_ answer your
| question, since we're assuming the polysomnography
| equipment is ground truth, but it at least gives an idea of
| the discordance between a consumer device and a medical
| device.
| garyfirestorm wrote:
| There is a field dedicated to this called as psychoacoustics.
| Sound pressure level (SPL) alone won't work for this experiment
| like you said. There are other metrics like steady state and
| transient noise, masking from different frequencies having
| different effects on humans. It is definitely doable but far
| more complicated than the tweets seem to make it sound.
| cwmoore wrote:
| Ask an inmate:
|
| https://amp.sacbee.com/news/california/article240396741.html
|
| EDIT/TLDR: highly effective
| jilles wrote:
| There might be some other factors in that situation that
| prevent one from having a restful night.
| cwmoore wrote:
| Might be! And some people might not deserve sleep! But
| "every half hour with pipe-like electronic devices that cause
| loud clanging noises"
|
| seems to be the specific relevant factor.
|
| "Stanford University sleep medicine professor who says in a
| court-filed declaration that Lipsey "is exposed to
| unrelenting noise that is out of his control that can further
| (fuel) his insomnia and potentially worsens his health."
| conradev wrote:
| A lot of folks are talking about the "consistency" of a sound
| (constant white noise vs random sounds) and its volume, but I
| feel like the nature of the sound matters a lot more.
|
| I'll respond much differently to my bedroom door opening or a
| voice speaking than I do a bus outside.
|
| It reminds me of the anecdote where human researchers rang bells
| near bears (human sounds) and the bears didn't care, but if they
| broke a large bundle of branches (bear sounds), the bears went
| berserk.
|
| I feel like our subconscious is a lot more involved here than we
| give it credit for.
| mmahemoff wrote:
| This is especially true for sleep since we can be pretty good
| at incorporating external sounds into our dreams. It's been
| shown in controlled experiments. Seems likely that certain
| noises are generically easier to integrate into dreams than
| other noises, which could just cause you to wake up or have
| your sleep otherwise impaired.
| alexyaseen wrote:
| why don't more hotels seem to understand this? so often I find
| that even nice hotels have very minimal background noise but
| poor soundproofing of the doors. so hallway noise disrupts
| sleep so much
| gowld wrote:
| Because good materials cost more than "fancy" decorations.
| sandspar wrote:
| When hotels buy doors, they optimize for things like cost,
| fireproofing, and weight (so guests and housecleaning can
| open them easily). Noise cancelling is a nice-to-have, but if
| you're buying and maintaining ~100 room doors (USA average
| per hotel), then you have to cut costs somewhere. On top of
| that, hotel hallway environments tend to be noisy in the
| first place. We're talking long, narrow hallways with hard
| walls, plus constant streams of holidaymakers who aren't
| exactly tiptoeing around.
| globular-toast wrote:
| The last time I lived in a flat the guy downstairs got up at
| 6am and used an iPhone. I know that because I could hear his
| alarm through the floor. Couldn't have been anywhere near 60dB
| in my room, but it would wake me up every damn time. Oddly,
| even today I am absurdly sensitive to that awful Apple alarm
| sound.
| conradev wrote:
| Same! I will jump out of my seat if I hear it loud, sleeping
| or not. If it goes off anywhere on a bus or a plane, I hear
| it at very low volume. I'm glad they've (since) changed the
| defaults to less jarring sounds.
| cloverich wrote:
| I wake up _super_ easy at many parts of the night, to all kinds
| of minor sounds. But when I lived directly behind a train, I
| not only don't recall it waking me up, I distinctly remember
| that, after getting used to it, it had a kind of calming effect
| on me. Really interesting. But I wonder if it was still
| disrupting my sleep and to what degree. I'd mainly like to know
| in case we have future housing options next to a train because,
| outside of being near horn / turns, I wouldn't normally worry
| much about it.
| YossarianFrPrez wrote:
| Some days I joke that there should be a set of Nobel prizes for
| making machines quieter. Categories could include: air-
| conditioning units and mini-fridges, construction and landscaping
| equipment, old university buildings, pump-housings, etc. The
| quality of life of many would be improved if we had quieter
| machines. It boggles my mind that a) in many hotel rooms one can
| hear a good deal of machine noise and neighbors' televisions, and
| b) that some sort of noise score (as calculated from DB meter
| measurements) isn't more widely available for things like
| apartment rentals, conference room bookings, etc.
| stronglikedan wrote:
| > making machines quieter
|
| It's already possible, just not profitable.
| mrexroad wrote:
| Exactly. That's where the other comment about a "noise tax",
| or enact fines for exceeding limits, are probably necessary
| to shift the calculus.
|
| Japan is a good case study [1]. If nothing else, it's fun to
| look at the charts showing noise reductions--not just in
| aggregate, but for each contributing input (e.g. engine,
| intake, exhaust, tires, cooling)--for both passenger vehicles
| and heavy equipment. Unfortunately, in the US, we have a few
| obstacles to legislation like this, least of which being
| public apathy as majority of voters who are not exposed to
| high sound levels daily.
|
| "Japan's primary legislation governing noise regulation is
| the Environmental Noise Regulation Act, first introduced in
| 1986 and subsequently amended in 1999. This act sets
| different noise limits for different times of the day, with
| the maximum allowable noise level during the day set at 55
| decibels and reduced to 45 decibels at night to prevent
| disturbances to those who are sleeping. Violators of these
| standards are subject to penalties."
|
| [1] https://www.lios-group.com/news/noise-regulations-in-
| japan-o...
| willsmith72 wrote:
| what about a noise tax? my city has some electric buses and
| some ancient buses - the difference obviously is absolutely
| huge, but right now the financial incentives aren't there to
| upgrade the whole fleet
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Noise from construction machines is actually a feature. They
| all have added backup beepers at this point as required per
| OSHA guidelines. Audible for well over a mile in normal
| conditions
| arp242 wrote:
| > Audible for well over a mile in normal conditions
|
| That doesn't strike me as a feature.
|
| Also a solved problem:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rwJ5NCf1Vw
|
| Tesco delivery trucks have them here in Ireland; it's pretty
| good stuff. Still quite loud/noticeable when you're up close,
| while at the same time not being completely obnoxious to
| everyone in a kilometre radius.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| They have to be loud enough to be heard through hearing
| protection. The amplitude is a feature.
|
| It's a "solved problem" in the sense that nuclear energy is
| a solved problem. There's no mandate to actually see
| widespread roll out of anything that may be a better
| solution.
|
| There's a construction site near me at present. There is
| always 1 machine in reverse, at all times. The utility of
| having a backup beeper or any noise making device on that
| site is thus zero. It is the single largest source of noise
| pollution, larger than the roadway
| bumby wrote:
| > _The utility of having a backup beeper or any noise
| making device on that site is thus zero._
|
| This strikes me as an odd take, maybe from someone who
| has never worked on a construction site.
|
| Our auditory sense is more than just a binary
| "present/not present" detection. We can sense distance
| and direction. Just because there is a backup beeper
| _somewhere_ on site does not mean there is no value to
| any other auditory signal.
|
| Think about when you're in a congested city. There's
| probably a lot of ambient car noise, including horns, in
| the background. That doesn't mean you're unable to react
| to a honking car in your immediate vicinity.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| You just believe you can sense the direction of loud
| noises in urban environments. Our nervous system has no
| "404 not found" for positional awareness. Even after
| severe head trauma, you have a sense of position for
| everything. It's so wrong as to be useless, but you have
| it.
|
| Ask anyone who's been at a shooting in a city. Everyone
| gives a different answer for where the shooter was at.
| It's such a severe issue the US Army has microphone
| arrays they equip urban combat vehicles with. Even with
| bullets actually bouncing off the armor the troops cannot
| accurately locate the direction of the shooter(s).
| gowld wrote:
| Those beepers should be directional. I don't need to hear the
| beep opposite the direction of movement.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| The requirements are that it be heard in all directions,
| including straight up.
| Dambalala wrote:
| https://www.quietmark.com/
| WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
| I find it fascinating that as a society, we allowed automobiles
| to pass close to homes
|
| I'm glad we are finally going to transition to EVs.. about time
| 7jjjjjjj wrote:
| At a distance, most of the noise from a car is road noise, not
| engine noise.
| rebeccaskinner wrote:
| Unfortunately even without engine noise people will still
| install gigantic subwoofers in their car and roll around
| rattling windows. This has consistently been the biggest
| problem with my sleep for years, and nothing I've been able to
| do (including trying to move to different locations) has helped
| because they are so incredibly loud and prevalent these days.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| I bought an apartment next to a cycling path that connects
| the area to the city centre and that was singlehandedly the
| biggest mistake of my life, because the path also allows
| mopeds, which have engines orders of magnitude louder than
| loudest cars. This is insanity. Thankfully, the city is
| planning to ban fossil-fuel mopeds within five years. They
| already started phasing them out, you can't register a new
| one, only old ones are allowed. These are going to be five
| very long years though.
|
| Also, it's a mostly black area, which means people hanging
| out and talking right in front of the apartment building,
| even though there's a public park five minutes of walk away.
| When I was searching for an apartment to buy, there was one
| on tenth floor, and I regret not buying that one, because I'd
| be shielded from all the noise on the street.
|
| I was fully conviced that I'd be able to stomach living in
| poorer area and wait for gentrification to happen. I can live
| with trash on the street. I can live with vandalism. I can
| live with beggars by the supermarket. I can live with theft
| and other crime. But the noise. The noise is fucking
| unbearable.
|
| My dream is to wait until the apartment doubles or triples in
| value, then sell it, and move to rural shithole where nobody
| lives.
| rangestransform wrote:
| https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-
| bro...
|
| didn't you get the memo that wanting peace and quiet is
| racist and classist now?
| anal_reactor wrote:
| 1. Diversity and inclusivity does not work. People
| segregate themselves into groups because it's easier for
| them to communicate. White people will always prefer to
| hang out with other white people, and black people will
| always prefer to hang out with other black people. This
| is clearly visible in my city - all the black people are
| concentrated in a ghetto, and on the street you never see
| mixed-race groups. Similarly, at work when I go for lunch
| I notice that people tend to gravitate towards same or
| similar nationalities.
|
| 2. I am a full-blown classist and I see no problem with
| that. I grew up in a small village and everyone who
| escaped poverty hates poor people.
| adonovan wrote:
| Yeah, it is sad to think how different things could have been,
| especially when you consider how loud/dangerous/toxic early
| cars were.
|
| On the other hand, before that, we (humans) allowed horses to
| shit (and decompose) in the streets, and long before that, we
| invited livestock to spend the winter in the same room. So the
| past wasn't idyllically clean or well organized either.
| mmahemoff wrote:
| I wish someone could solve the problem at the receiver end, i.e.,
| invent noise-cancelling headphones/earplugs that actually cancel
| noise as effectively as eye-masks cancel light.
|
| In addition to sleep needs, the world has gotten noisier now that
| people are habitually using speakerphones in public in the most
| obnoxious ways.
| dmoy wrote:
| I mean....
|
| https://westone.com/defendear-sleep
|
| Gets you some pretty good quiet for sleep. It's not active
| noise cancelling, but they work pretty well.
|
| Anecdotally if you wear a pair of westone solids, and then a
| pair of earmuffs on top of that, you are basically just hearing
| through your bones, which can't be avoided (with passive or
| active).
| hn_throw2025 wrote:
| I used to use mouldable silicone ear plugs :
|
| https://bioears.co.uk/products/bioears-ear-plugs
|
| Very effective, but eventually they made me just focus on my
| tinnitus.
|
| I now live in a quieter place and use some white noise from a
| speaker - ocean sounds.
| jks wrote:
| These are the most comfortable earplugs I've used:
|
| https://www.elacin.com/your-perfect-fit/leisure/relax-sleep/
|
| Currently I use Ozlo Sleepbuds which are not quite as
| comfortable and a little finicky to operate, but I like the
| masking noise.
| Anechoic wrote:
| FYI, there's been _tons_ of research of the effects of noise on
| sleep from different sources. There have been studies ranging
| from in-lab experiments, to in-home experiments with artificial
| and natural sources. If you 're interested, some resources:
|
| Institute of Noise Control Engineering Digital library:
| https://www.inceusa.org/publications/ince-digital-library/
| (papers older than 10 years old are available free)
|
| Federal Interagency Committee on Aviation Noise:
| https://fican1.wordpress.com/findings/ (focuses on aviation
| noise)
|
| Acoustical Society of America Lay Language Papers:
| https://acoustics.org/lay-language-papers/ (search for "sleep" --
| the ASA has a full library of more detailed research but the
| documents cost money unless you're an ASA member)
|
| World Health Organization guidelines on noise -
| https://iris.who.int/bitstream/handle/10665/343936/WHO-EURO-...
| (doesn't get into specifics on research on sleep, but does refer
| recommended limits to sleep disturbance)
|
| NIH has done a bunch of research on sleep disturbance from noise,
| you would need to search through their library
|
| edit (one more): TRB/National Academies
| https://nap.nationalacademies.org/search/?rpp=20&ft=1&term=n...
|
| A lot of the stuff that posters are asking for have in fact been
| done, it just takes some digging through the research sites to
| find them. There's a lot of variation in the data, the hypothesis
| is that sleep sensitivity varies a lot based on various physical
| factors (age being a big one).
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Interesting, perhaps age related deafness contributes.
| Ntrails wrote:
| I'd expect the relationship goes the other way around. Most
| old people I know sleep lightly comparatively
| schiffern wrote:
| >age-related deafness
|
| Interestingly, there's been some suggestion that hearing loss
| is not inevitable with age, but is mostly just the
| accumulation of noise-related hearing loss in a loud
| industrial society.
|
| https://canadianaudiologist.ca/a-new-perspective-on-
| chronic-...
|
| https://www.icben.org/2017/ICBEN%202017%20Papers/SubjectArea.
| ..
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41370-024-00660-3
|
| I think partly the issue is that how we measure noise doesn't
| match how noise causes injury. Your cochlea acts as a spiral
| resonant tube, essentially a "physical FFT," concentrating
| energy at a particular frequency onto a particular location
| in the spiral. Too much (local!) energy damages the hair
| cells, causing conductive hearing loss.
|
| But because we calculate A-weighted decibels by summing all
| frequencies _and then_ checking if we 're above the injury
| threshold (vs checking whether we exceed the injury threshold
| _at any frequency_ ), using A-weighted decibels can't
| accurately determine damaging noise levels. If all the energy
| is concentrated at Middle A it will cause more damage than
| spreading the energy out across the spectrum, even if the
| A-weighted decibels come out equal.
|
| It's a somewhat subtle, wrong order-of-operations problem.
| There's also a separate problem that A-weighting is designed
| to normalize for _perception_ at various frequencies, not
| hearing damage.
|
| I've tried searching the literature to find out whether this
| is either 1)wrong, or 2)generally known within the fields of
| audiology and occupational hygiene, but so far I've come up
| empty.
|
| --
|
| I recall an HN poster long ago saying how they wore earplugs
| daily to achieve "super hearing." It occurs to me that all
| they were doing was _actually_ protecting their ears from
| damage. :-|
| Anechoic wrote:
| _I 've tried searching the literature to find out whether
| this is either 1)wrong, or 2)generally known within the
| fields of audiology and occupational hygiene, but so far
| I've come up empty._
|
| FWIW, I've also heard the same, but don't remember where
| off the top of my head. It's at least potentially true, but
| the conventional wisdom among acousticians/noise control
| engineering is that age-related hearing loss is mostly to
| increasing age rather than external factors.
| Magi604 wrote:
| My apartment is along a corridor that is frequented by emergency
| vehicles, so sirens are frequent during normal sleep hours, and
| my apartment windows face the sunrise. I've adopted a number of
| things over the years to combat all of this:
|
| - Blackout curtains
|
| - Earplugs
|
| - White noise maker (just an air purifier but it does the same
| thing)
|
| - 3mg Melatonin
| uludag wrote:
| I've been using earplugs practically every night for the past
| three years and I can't recommend them enough. While the
| particular kind I use (Mack's ultra soft) don't block out all the
| noise, there is a wide variety of noises that used to wake me up
| which don't anymore. If you haven't tried them I would highly
| recommend giving sleeping with earplugs a shot. It only takes a
| few days or so to get used to them.
|
| In terms of downsides, only once in the past three years did I
| get some earwax clogged in some part of my ear which was easy to
| remove with some special spray (went to urgent care). Also, I
| have a very hard time sleeping without them anymore so I always
| make sure to have a pair at hand. Also, you may have to
| experiment with various brands and types as some brands are
| really uncomfortable and hurt my ear.
| octo888 wrote:
| 3M 1100 work great for me. You can get a box of 200 pairs
|
| Unfortunately they changed a bit the past few years to be
| slightly less comfortable but I still find them the best
| overall
| Arainach wrote:
| Foam are significantly less comfortable for side sleeping and
| block less noise than Silicone (Mack's) which still come in
| large sets for well under $1/pair.
| octo888 wrote:
| Ear plugs are highly personal I find. People need to find
| what works for them. I can't stand wax or silicone earplugs
| for example. I sleep on my side
| jagaerglad wrote:
| I don't know about the 1100 but I have another model (ear
| classic), just simple foam earplugs, of the same
| manufacturer. Having gone through many different foam,
| silicon etc plugs from the pharmacy and grocery shop, the
| 3M are undeniably the best I've ever had. No pain from the
| foam expanding bigger than the ear canal (although it's
| initially bigger), no itching from sweat etc, no pressure
| on the eardrum when side-sleeping (that tinnitus feeling
| from some foam earplugs). They are literally perfect, and
| the noise blocking is the best I've experienced. I don't
| know what it is but perhaps they have some foam patented
| that only they use (probably poisonous or something in true
| evil company fashion though)
|
| The only reason I tried them is that I found myself in a
| situation where my standard silicone earplugs were gone and
| where somebody gave me a box of hundreds of earplugs they
| didn't manage to sell at a concert. I was bracing myself
| for a terrible night of ear pain, but was pleasantly
| surprised of how superior they were to anything I had
| tried, still using earplugs from the very same box as my
| night-to-night noise relief
| roamerz wrote:
| That's all great until something happens while you are sleeping
| that needs your attention. I'd love to be able to use something
| like that but being responsible for my family's safety says I
| cannot.
|
| Maybe there is room for a device that recognizes those types of
| sounds and maybe triggers a watch vibration would be a
| solution.
| uludag wrote:
| That's a valid point. Alarms of all sorts do still wake me
| up, along with crying babies. It worked well when my wife and
| I were taking shifts being with the baby. When it was my turn
| to rest, using earplugs definitely made my sleep time more
| effective.
| mmh0000 wrote:
| I've spent years "fixing" my sleep. Things I recommend:
|
| * a sleep tracker. I love AutoSleep -
| https://apps.apple.com/us/app/autosleep-track-sleep-on-watch...
|
| * Any kind of white noise. I use an air purifier at home, and a
| little pocket size white noise machine when I travel.
|
| * find and eliminate any noises in your home. Computers, fridges,
| squeaky doors, etc.
|
| * find and eliminate any lights. Especially stupid power and
| status LEDs. Bedroom should be pitch black at night. Electrical
| tape works well for this.
|
| * Blackout curtains
|
| * cheap eye mask
|
| * Magnesium Glycate supplement
|
| * Earplugs- https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0015TBGR6
|
| * And finally, a recent addition that I've fallen in love with is
| sleep ear buds: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT9GBFQ2
|
| Although, I would wait on getting sleep ear buds, Anker just
| announced a new model with ANC and a similar price.
| codybontecou wrote:
| Appreciate the list. How do you eliminate fridge noise (besides
| replacing the fridge entirely)?
| yukIttEft wrote:
| I have a street in front of my bedroom and I'm wondering how
| well ANC earbuds work in that case. Will it be completely
| silent or will there still be some kind of whoosh-sound?
| delecti wrote:
| A large quantity of disposable earplugs is so cheap that I'd
| recommend you try that before investing time and money into
| ANC earbuds.
|
| My spouse snores loudly, and a $15 container of 50 pairs has
| lasted more than 2 years, and saved our ability to co-sleep
| (I was only a couple nights away from moving to our guest
| room). We're also on a street with a very permissive speed
| limit, and we're under the approach path of the nearby
| airport, and it's never a problem.
|
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051U7W32 I got these, $15 for 50
| pairs; the GP comment is $40 for 200 pairs which is a better
| value but more investment if you wind up dissatisfied
| layer8 wrote:
| It won't be completely silent, if only because ANC always
| comes with low-level white noise.
|
| I second the disposable earplugs recommendations.
| timeattack wrote:
| Any advice on how to eliminate noisy neighbours that would
| randomly drop their shit at random intervals in the middle of
| night and let their child to stomp around every late evening?
| Terr_ wrote:
| > Any advice on how to eliminate noisy neighbours
|
| ... Not from a _Jedi_. :p
| grg0 wrote:
| No need for fancy light sabers, put them to the sword.
| trollbridge wrote:
| Unfortunately, the best way to cure this is "don't live
| underneath other people".
| rwyinuse wrote:
| I second this. If you really have to live in a flat, top
| floor is always the superior option.
| grg0 wrote:
| Literally the superior option.
| scythe wrote:
| You know, I work in hospitals all day and people are always
| stomping around and moving heavy equipment. But you never
| hear anything coming through the ceiling.
|
| Contact your state representative and ask them to do
| something about the building codes. It's a completely
| voluntary problem. American buildings are noisy because we
| decided that was okay.
| potato3732842 wrote:
| >Contact your state representative and ask them to do
| something about the building codes. It's a completely
| voluntary problem. American buildings are noisy because we
| decided that was okay.
|
| Congratulations on finding an equally terrible and bad for
| everybody apartment-living analog to the sort of
| suburbanite Karen opinion that underpins meddling HOAs and
| busybody municipal codes.
|
| If you want a quieter apartment pony up to live in a nicer
| one. Don't force the rest of society to shoulder the
| expense.
| timeattack wrote:
| You assume I'm in US, while I'm not. Not even EU. I know
| building owner personally and the only factual way is to
| evict those people. The only problem is that building owner
| is leasing them an apartment, and you can't evict people
| basing on household noises, even if they are driving me
| insane.
| conradev wrote:
| Ear plugs! https://acscustom.com/uk/products/other-
| products/sleep-sound
| ziofill wrote:
| That would be my no 1 go-to, if I didn't have to remain
| alert for my 3 year old sleeping next door (he can seep
| through the noisy neighbors though!)... (btw our neighbours
| are underneath and they cook at night, and talk very
| loudly)
| seletskiy wrote:
| Unfortunately, ear plugs would not help against low
| frequency bass noise, which this noise typically is.
| 4b11b4 wrote:
| I may suggest custom ear buds. Best $200 you'll spend. The
| original method is a wax form, but now there is a 3D scanning
| tool to map the shape of your ear.
| LouisSayers wrote:
| ... or just buy silicone ones from the pharmacy (the ones for
| swimmers).
|
| I keep some of these on me at all times in case I end up next
| to any loud speakers.
| serpix wrote:
| 2 euro silicone ear plugs from Aliexpress easily beat the
| custom ear plugs I had.
| cooppearson wrote:
| Would like to second ear plugs, it took some testing to find
| the right softness/size because I have _very small_ ear canals,
| but these slim-fit earplugs have been life-changing for my
| sleep: https://a.co/d/38Kftbm
|
| The earplugs don't completely cut out environmental noise, but
| they dampen it enough that I don't find myself being awakened
| by any bumps in the night.
|
| And snipping down the tail ends of the earplugs with scissors
| helps reduce pressure if you're a side sleeper.
| LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
| I can't stand earplugs, and think of ear buds as counter-
| productive. I've used (silken) eye masks, but have no use for
| them anymore, because successfully blacked out everything.
|
| Don't know what to make of white-noise, do purring cats count?
| Or really relaxed snuggling with sexy gals after having fucked
| each others brains out? Or both?
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| What does AutoSleep offer above and beyond Apple's Health app?
|
| I have (and recommend) a white noise machine at home, but when
| I travel, I use the awesome MyNoise app, which lets you EQ the
| noise precisely so you can target the specific annoyance in
| your environment.
| mmh0000 wrote:
| > What does AutoSleep offer above and beyond Apple's Health
| app?
|
| In my experience. After initial setup, it is way more
| accurate.
|
| Apple commonly says I get more hours of sleep than I know I
| do. Apple counts just being relaxed as sleeping. Whereas I
| can tune AutoSleep to correctly identify the difference
| between me sleep and just being super relaxed. Thus I get a
| much more accurate image of what is working
|
| Also the apple sleep graph is actually terrible. Almost
| impossible to understand when wake up are occurring.
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| I will definitely check it out then as I am frustrated by
| the same problem where Apple shows me as asleep when I am
| meditating myself back to sleep. It even shows me as
| sleeping when I have pushed the crown to see the time!
| EasyMark wrote:
| Getting blackout curtains and killing off any stray light from
| clocks was huge for me.
| random3 wrote:
| Same thing - I've been adjusting my sleep since first Sleep
| Cycle came for iPhone. I started with a "smart" alarm and
| learned alarms are harmful. I didn't need an alarm, I just
| needed 7-8h of sleep. I was going to bed 1-2AM.
|
| I'm doing all of the above with the following differences:
|
| - I use AirPods pro. They are not that comfortable, but leaving
| a Audible low in background helps falling asleep and also
| getting back to sleep rather than picking random problems to
| solve and eventually waking up. It was "life-saver" when I
| started my first company before learning to manage stress.
|
| - I used these 3M sleeping ear buds and they were the most
| confortable https://www.amazon.com/3M-Disposable-Earplugs-
| Quiet-Sleep/dp...
|
| - Extra pillow over head, helps a lot (I have no idea why)
| mersenne wrote:
| I've also been doing small improvements to my sleep over the
| years and share some of your recommendations! What's worked
| best for me have been:
|
| 1. Good mattress and pillow (this is a 101 kind of thing).
|
| 2. Having the right temperature (same as above).
|
| 3. White noise. I also use a white noise machine and the White
| Noise app on iOS (which I bought for like $1 years ago and
| still use it). Ironically, I don't use white noise but brown
| noise, which is slightly more soothing to me.
|
| 4. Air purifier, not necessarily for the white noise it
| produces because it's pretty silent, but because that way I
| guarantee that I get at least 8 hours of purified air a day.
|
| 5. Black out curtains.
|
| 6. Eye masks. I actually wear two at once -- the first one to
| block any lights, the second one to press against my eyelashes,
| which I find it better for sleeping.
|
| 7. Magnesium Glycinate. I've tried different supplements,
| different forms of magnesium, and even different brands, and
| the one that I currently use has worked wonders for me. Made me
| go from being a light sleeper to a medium-heavy sleeper.
|
| Haven't tried earplugs, but I don't really feel the need to.
| Another thing I tried (but never noticed a real difference) was
| using a small piece of tape on my lips to avoid opening my
| mouth.
| octo888 wrote:
| Low frequency noise is the worst. Extremely difficult often
| impossible to eliminate without a lot of expense. Travels long
| distances. Absolute nightmare for people sensitive to noise
| socalgal2 wrote:
| I don't know how to state this well but I find the fact that
| nearly all new apartment buildings in California are only allowed
| to be built on busy streets very frustrating. I'm guessing it's
| part nimby-ism and part zoning but every time I see a new
| apartment complex it's next to the busiest streets in the city
| (LA, SF). It's like many things, if you want health you must be
| rich. If you can't afford a house then F.U. You get a loud
| apartment with constant traffic noise.
|
| I *almost* feel like it should be illegal to build them next to
| the freeway like
|
| Those ones just north of SFO next to the 110:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/sAkUMhmnutZ1jFd27
|
| The ones in downtown LA next to the 110:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/4mBVLo12hLR4EwU16
|
| The ones north of LAX at Howard Hughes:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/Z8bnB7wR5jDBddhg6
|
| I don't actually think I think they should be illegal but dang
| it, I wish there were more options for new apartments. In LA
| there are lots of older apartment buildings in quiet residential
| neighborhoods built 50+ years ago.
|
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/KMLav1zLiQZK6T8L6
|
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/aUH52rBAbaHExjzB6
|
| They are no longer allowed to be built AFAICT.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| Streets are much quieter at lower speed limits. There is
| definitely room for improvement here from the traffic
| engineers.
| gowld wrote:
| Downtown is very low speed but very noisy.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| Say what you will about the suburbs but the grass and
| landscaping on each and every property is like noise
| cancelling foam being applied compared to the hardscaping
| downtown.
| bluefirebrand wrote:
| This is why I moved to suburbs tbh
|
| Compared to the city it's so quiet and peaceful. My sleep
| is much better
| potato3732842 wrote:
| To a point. The problem is that the kind of people who are
| always screeching about traffic speeds are never satisfied
| and below a certain threshold the only way to go get slower
| is 4-way stops. And once those go in you get to listen to
| every motorcycle and delivery truck accelerate after the
| stop.
| gowld wrote:
| That's not a problem with the location. That's a problem with
| building materials. I've lives on the busiest street in town,
| with well insulated walls and windows that block out street
| noise. And I've lived in poorly -constructed suburban houses
| that admit noise from across the neighborhood.
| layman51 wrote:
| I disagree. The location is definitely a factor. If you live
| within 300 feet (about 100 meters) of a multi-lane highway,
| then depending on the wind patterns, you are definitely
| getting more exposure to pollutants that come from cars,
| trucks, or their brakes and tires. But no one in California
| is ready to talk about addressing this because it would
| require radically changing the status quo.
| socalgal2 wrote:
| So you're saying people living in apartments are required to
| never open their windows?
|
| I'm all for better construction but I still want to be able
| to open my windows without having to let in tons of noise and
| car exhaust
| sjs382 wrote:
| > only allowed to be built on busy streets
|
| Is this true or a misleading observation?
|
| I can see some argument about it, increasing traffic in areas
| that aren't equipped for it if the building is large enough.
| But it might just be market forces, too: in larger cities, it's
| often more desirable to be near a major artery. Earplugs (if
| the noise bothers you) vs a longer commute.
| aegypti wrote:
| It is quite literally illegal to build anything but detached
| single family homes on 95.8 percent of the total residential
| land area in California / 75% of the residential land area in
| most major American cities.
| trollbridge wrote:
| "Residential land area"? Much of California's land has no
| zoning at all. Of course, it's not near any cities either
| (or near any road noise).
| aegypti wrote:
| It is illegal to build housing without a permit, and you
| will not be issued a permit on much of California's land.
|
| Residential land area = land you can build housing on
|
| https://belonging.berkeley.edu/single-family-zoning-
| californ...
| jobs_throwaway wrote:
| Daily reminder that our zoning policy is deeply racist and
| evil
| conradev wrote:
| I don't know about "only allowed", but this is a thing:
|
| https://sd11.senate.ca.gov/news/senate-passes-senator-
| wiener...
| aegypti wrote:
| https://cayimby.org/legislation/sb-79/
|
| They will be allowed by right near any type of transit stop if
| SB79 goes through!
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| This entrenches that behavior because the transit stops are
| often on arterials.
| aegypti wrote:
| Hopefully the legislators have thought of this and extended
| the downzoning to half a mile even for BRT stops in the
| middle of the sunset district :)
| dackle wrote:
| Check out the location of these condos in downtown Toronto
| built alongside the Gardiner Expressway, a very busy 90km/h
| (~55mph) highway: https://maps.app.goo.gl/TGLCBJGbrSEkAm7W6
|
| The satellite view shows many units in multiple buildings
| directly next to this highway with no noise protection:
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/JA4jMPSSYsDBq5my5
|
| Years ago I lived near a busy four-lane road with what seemed
| like a reasonable 60km/h speed limit. However, when it rained,
| the noise from the car tires on the wet road made it difficult
| to hear music from my radio. It was very unpleasant to leave
| the balcony doors open, as the constant din starts to work its
| way into your brain and make it very difficult to focus.
| quoxi wrote:
| I was looking for an apartment on the SF Peninsula a couple
| years back. Nearly all apartment buildings constructed in
| recent years are right next to the freeway or right next to the
| CalTrain train tracks. Lots of air and noise pollution, and it
| feels like borderline hostility towards renters. Lived there
| for a short while and ultimately moved out of the Bay Area
| because of the poor options for renters in that area (although
| it gets better the further south you go) and of course the sky-
| high housing prices.
| emsign wrote:
| I'm using pink noise to suppress my REM phase and get more deep
| sleep when my body needs extra regeneration at the expense of
| mental regeneration. Luckily there's none of that random street
| noise in my neighborhood.
| todotask2 wrote:
| I have even worse noise in my area -- a widespread ground
| vibration across a few kilometers, like a constant loud 50Hz hum
| that causes a tingling sensation in my body. You can't even block
| it by covering your ears. I've been experiencing this frequently,
| both thru the night and during the day, for the past five years
| here in Singapore has affected my sleep rhythm, can't sleep with
| that noise. I've unemployed for the past 5 years.
| octo888 wrote:
| Low frequency noise is the worst! Probably a stupid question
| but do you know anyone else that can hear it? I had a low-
| frequency version of tinnitus and I spent weeks thinking it was
| some external noise
| todotask2 wrote:
| My mum hears it too, but the local authorities simply claimed
| they couldn't hear anything during that brief moment. They'd
| have to stay overnight to really hear and feel it -- inside a
| room, not just in a public space. It even vibrate my eardrum
| like I'm sitting on an F16 pilot seat.
|
| I don't hear it in other districts.
|
| I wish there were an expert or researcher interested in these
| areas: residential buildings, shops, parks, churches, and
| schools.
| lurking_swe wrote:
| i'd try getting this in front of a journalist or news
| station. They may be more excited to investigate "weird"
| claims like this one. Sorry to hear about your situation.
| Anechoic wrote:
| _I wish there were an expert or researcher interested in
| these areas: residential buildings, shops, parks, churches,
| and schools._
|
| You mean an expert in acoustics related to those areas?
| There are lots of experts and researchers. Take a look at
| the Acoustical Society of America, the Institute of Noise
| Control Engineering, and Council for Accreditation in
| Occupational Hearing Conservation for starters.
|
| Penn State, University of Hartford, Purdue University,
| Michigan Technological University, University of Nebraska,
| Morgan State Univeristy, and Brigham Young University
| (among others) all have strong acoustics programs with
| research in a bunch of areas.
| Nevermark wrote:
| That sounds terrible.
|
| I am imagining some kind of vibration dampening layer under a
| bed, with an acoustic foam shell around/over the bed.
|
| Drastic measures might be worth trying.
| todotask2 wrote:
| That could be hard -- my building is vibrating as well. It
| might be due to major underground train construction. The
| authorities either couldn't pinpoint the source of the noise
| or just claim they don't hear it.
| compumike wrote:
| Interesting! It could be a confounder as well. For example, maybe
| people who live in dense (loud) urban dwellings also tend to have
| more day-to-day life stress generally, leading to reduced sleep
| quality. (Of course, reduced sleep quality could also be a source
| of more life stress...)
|
| Would your userbase be up for a little experiment: adding
| white/pink/rainfall/etc noise at various volumes? I bet you'd see
| an inverted U shaped curve, with sleep quality _increasing_ at
| relatively low volume levels, and then hitting some maximum and
| decreasing when it gets too loud! (Agree with other comments
| about looking at intra-night variance in noise level.)
| mancerayder wrote:
| Incredibly, the noise insulation between floors and ESPECIALLY
| walls in both hotels around the world and even expensive, modern
| apartment buildings in Manhattan is absolutely atrocious. So I
| end up booking Airbnb's when I travel and renting top floors
| whenever I can.
|
| I find the build quality of new buildings (again, even uber
| luxury apartment condos) in the U.S. absolutely crap compared to
| Europe (I'm thinking especially of France and Germany).
|
| Over here on HN you have a strong contingent of people who push
| pro-density, pro-city, and anti-car. But some people (like
| myself) who suffer from a sensitive sleep are deeply affected and
| consider moving to the woods away from people just for this
| problem. I find the 'SLAM' sound of doors (in New York there's a
| spring loading per building code), the stomp stomp of upstairs,
| and the bass music of adjacent neighbors to be deeply disruptive
| from a psychological perspective.
| joquarky wrote:
| While in the subject of noise, I'd like some research on the
| effect of "popcorn" tuned car exhausts on the mental health of
| people suffering from PTSD or are just generally sensitive.
| dariosalvi78 wrote:
| The worst is this a "fashion" of modifying vehicles, illegally,
| to make them sound like airplanes. I live in Sweden and, believe
| me, it is absolute hell on hearth.
| 0xjunhao wrote:
| FYI a literature review from a deep research AI ======
|
| The effect of noise on sleep is multifaceted, involving various
| types of noise exposure, physiological mechanisms, and
| consequences on sleep quality and health.
|
| I. Introduction Environmental and occupational noise refers to
| unwanted or harmful sounds from sources such as traffic,
| aircraft, railways, and workplaces. Noise pollution is a
| significant public health issue due to its widespread prevalence
| and impact on sleep and overall health.
|
| II. Types of Noise Exposure
|
| Environmental noise includes road traffic, aircraft, and railway
| noise. Aircraft noise, for example, has been shown to negatively
| affect sleep in children, whereas road traffic noise may have
| less impact on autonomic activity during sleep [Effect of Noise
| on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children]. Occupational noise
| exposure also contributes to sleep disturbances and has been
| linked to sleep loss and fragmentation [The effects of
| occupational noise on sleep]. Intentional masking noise such as
| white or pink noise is sometimes used as a sleep aid to improve
| sleep quality in noisy environments [The effects of white noise
| on sleep].
|
| III. Physiological Mechanisms During sleep, the auditory system
| continues to process sounds, and noise can lower arousal
| thresholds, causing awakenings or micro-arousals. Noise exposure
| activates the autonomic nervous system, increasing heart rate and
| blood pressure, and stimulates the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal
| (HPA) axis, leading to hormonal and metabolic changes
| [Environmental noise and sleep disturbances].
|
| IV. Effects on Sleep Architecture Noise exposure reduces total
| sleep time and sleep efficiency, increases sleep fragmentation,
| and causes more frequent micro-arousals. It also alters sleep
| stages by decreasing deep sleep (slow-wave sleep) and REM sleep,
| which are critical for restorative sleep [Effects of
| environmental noise on sleep].
|
| V. Health and Daytime Consequences Poor sleep due to noise leads
| to daytime sleepiness, cognitive impairments, and mood
| disturbances. Chronic noise-related sleep disruption is
| associated with increased cardiovascular and metabolic risks,
| such as hypertension and glucose metabolism disturbances. It also
| negatively affects quality of life and can contribute to burnout
| [Environmental Noise and Effects on Sleep], [Effects of personal
| noise exposure, sleep quality, and burnout].
|
| VI. Vulnerable and Special Populations Children are particularly
| sensitive to noise, with aircraft noise shown to disrupt their
| sleep more than road traffic noise. Older adults and individuals
| with pre-existing sleep disorders are also more vulnerable to
| noise-induced sleep disturbances [Effect of Noise on Sleep and
| Autonomic Activity in Children].
|
| VII. Noise as a Sleep Aid Paradoxically, steady background noise
| such as white or pink noise can improve sleep quality by masking
| disruptive environmental sounds. Studies have shown that white
| noise can significantly enhance subjective and objective sleep
| measures in noisy urban settings. However, potential downsides
| include hearing damage and psychological dependency on noise for
| sleep [Noise as a sleep aid: A systematic review], [The effects
| of white noise on sleep].
|
| VIII. Mitigation and Future Directions Effective strategies to
| mitigate noise effects on sleep include engineering controls like
| soundproofing, use of earplugs, and regulatory noise limits.
| Behavioral interventions and public health policies are also
| important. Future research is needed to clarify long-term
| effects, dose-response relationships, and to develop personalized
| interventions [The Effect of Room Acoustics on the Sleep Quality
| of Healthy Sleepers].
|
| In summary, noise negatively impacts sleep by disrupting sleep
| architecture and triggering physiological stress responses,
| leading to adverse health outcomes. While some forms of noise can
| aid sleep by masking disturbances, overall noise reduction
| remains critical for improving sleep quality and health.
|
| References
|
| Environmental noise and sleep disturbances: A threat to health?
| Demian Halperin et al. Sleep Science, 2014 Nov 15.
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4608916/ Poor sleep
| causes measurable changes on these systems. Experimental studies
| demonstrated that both sleep restriction and poor quality sleep
| affect glucose ...
|
| Effects of environmental noise on sleep Kenneth I Hume et al.
| Noise & health, 2012. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23257581/
| This paper summarizes the findings from the past 3 year's
| research on the effects of environmental noise on sleep and
| identifies key future research goals.
|
| The Effect of Room Acoustics on the Sleep Quality of Healthy
| Sleepers Ingo Fietze et al. Noise & Health, 2016 Sep-Oct.
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5187651/ Noise is one of
| the factors that can seriously disturb sleep, and sound volume is
| an important factor in this context. One strategy involves
| avoiding ...
|
| Noise as a sleep aid: A systematic review Samantha M. Riedy et
| al. Sleep Medicine Reviews, 2021/02/01.
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870...
| ... sleep aid, especially since it may also negatively affect
| sleep and hearing. ... Suzuki et al. Sleep deepening effect of
| steady pink noise. J Sound Vib. (1991).
|
| Environmental Noise and Effects on Sleep: An Update to the WHO
| Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis Michael G Smith et al.
| Environmental Health Perspectives, 2022 Jul 11.
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9272916/ Jul 11, 2022
| ... To what extent have the following outcomes of railway noise
| occurred in the past 12 months? Railway noise disturbs when
| falling asleep. Not ...
|
| Effects of personal noise exposure, sleep quality, and burnout on
| quality of life: An online participation cohort study in Taiwan
| Ta-Chien Chan et al. Science of The Total Environment,
| 2024/03/10.
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972...
| Mar 10, 2024 ... To our knowledge, this is the first study to
| explore the pathways through which daily noise exposure, sleep
| quality, and personal burnout affect ...
|
| Effect of Noise on Sleep and Autonomic Activity in Children
| according to Source
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476937/ Road
| traffic noise did not significantly alter sleep or autonomic
| activity in children, whereas aircraft noise exerted a negative
| effect on sleep.
|
| The effects of occupational noise on sleep: A systematic review
| Saeid Yazdanirad et al. Sleep Medicine Reviews, 2023/12/01.
| https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S10870...
| One of the important effects due to noise exposure is sleep
| loss/disturbance, which has received less attention. Sleep
| disturbance is defined as problems with ...
|
| The effects of white noise on sleep and duration in individuals
| living in a high noise environment in New York City Matthew R
| Ebben et al. Sleep medicine, 2021/7.
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34049045/ Our data show that
| white noise significantly improved sleep based on subjective and
| objective measurements in subjects complaining of difficulty
| sleeping.
| socalgal2 wrote:
| I wish they'd make car alarms illegal. afaict they do nothing. no
| one looks. It does not stop car theft or breakins. all it does
| ruin everyone's sleep.
|
| Especially in 2025, if you want to know if your car is being
| whatever triggers an alarm then have it send you a message that
| only bothers you and not several hundred other people.
|
| There is your new startup idea for ycombinator. car alarm app
| with optional $$$ track down service :p
| pedalpete wrote:
| I didn't see a link to the paper, so can only assume they were
| introducing new noises at randomized decibel levels to study
| participants.
|
| My start-up uses sound to enhance sleep's restorative function.
| So blankly saying "noise at decibel level x disrupts sleep" is
| not true.
|
| Over the last 10 years, research has shown that precisely timed
| micro-auditory stimulations increase slow-wave activity, and
| accompanying biomarkers of health. There are now more than 50
| published peer-reviewed papers regarding this phenomenon. We link
| to some of these on our website https://affectablesleep.com
|
| Environmental noise is different than precise stimulation based
| noise, but most of us have an adaptation level to environmental
| noise.
|
| I remember when I first moved to Chile having dinner with an
| Argentinian and an Indian, and the Argentinian said the streets
| in Santiago were so loud it was important to get an apartment on
| a higher floor. The Indian guy looked around and was like "what
| noise"? To him, Santiago was a peaceful and quiet environment.
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