[HN Gopher] Starcloud says 1 launch, $8M but ISS tech says 17 la...
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       Starcloud says 1 launch, $8M but ISS tech says 17 launches, $850M+
        
       Author : angadh
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2025-06-26 20:06 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (angadh.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (angadh.com)
        
       | quantified wrote:
       | And all of humanity will be watching these arrays orbit, for the
       | financial benefit of whom? I'm happy to remember the wild night
       | sky.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Starcloud isn't even worth the attention to point out what an
       | infeasible idea it is.
        
       | energywut wrote:
       | Putting a datacenter in space is one of the worst ideas I've
       | heard in a while.
       | 
       | Reliable energy? Possible, but difficult -- need plenty of
       | batteries
       | 
       | Cooling? Very difficult. Where does the heat transfer to?
       | 
       | Latency? Highly variable.
       | 
       | Equipment upgrades and maintenance? Impossible.
       | 
       | Radiation shielding? Not free.
       | 
       | Decommissioning? Potentially dangerous!
       | 
       | Orbital maintenance? Gotta install engines on your datacenter and
       | keep them fueled.
       | 
       | There's no upside, it's only downsides as far as I can tell.
        
         | GolfPopper wrote:
         | Servers outside any legal jurisdiction. Priceless.
        
           | bobthepanda wrote:
           | Given that most of the major powers have satellite shootdown
           | ability this isn't worth all that much if you're causing
           | enough trouble.
        
             | FredPret wrote:
             | Shooting down a satellite is a major step that creates a
             | mess of space junk, angering everybody.
             | 
             | Plus you can just have a couple of politicians from each
             | major power park their money on that satellite.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | >Shooting down a satellite is a major step that creates a
               | mess of space junk, angering everybody.
               | 
               | unless everybody is angry at satellite in which case it
               | is a price everybody is even eager to pay.
               | 
               | >Plus you can just have a couple of politicians from each
               | major power park their money on that satellite.
               | 
               | I've long had the idea that there are fashions in
               | corruption and a point at which to be corrupt just
               | becomes too gauche and most politicians go back to being
               | honest.
               | 
               | This explains the highly variant history of extreme
               | corruption in democracies.
               | 
               | At any rate while the idea that the cure for any
               | government interference is to be sufficiently corrupt
               | sounds foolproof in theory I'm not sure it actually works
               | out.
               | 
               | If I was a major politician and you had my competitors
               | park their money on your satellite it would become
               | interesting for me to get rid of it. Indeed if you had me
               | and my competitors on the satellite I might start
               | thinking how do I conceal getting my money out of here
               | and then wait for best moment to ram measure through to
               | blow up satellite.
        
               | FredPret wrote:
               | By that logic, politicians around the world would make it
               | illegal for themselves to trade stock on their insider
               | knowledge. I'm not holding my breath.
               | 
               | See: https://unusualwhales.com/politics. Some of these
               | politicians on both sides are very good and consistent
               | stock pickers indeed.
        
           | notahacker wrote:
           | The 'Principality of Sealand', anywhere else on the high seas
           | or Antarctica have their issues with practicality too, but
           | considerably less likelihood of background radiation flipping
           | bits...
        
           | psds2 wrote:
           | Who would be willing to provide connectivity to servers that
           | are exploiting being outside legal jurisdiction for some kind
           | of value?
        
             | edm0nd wrote:
             | Dozens upon dozens of illicit shady bulletproof hosting
             | providers.
             | 
             | 2026, we will get ransomware from space!
             | 
             | The RaaS groups have hundreds of millions of dollars so in
             | theory they actually could get something like that setup if
             | they wanted.
        
               | ronsor wrote:
               | > 2026, we will get ransomware from space!
               | 
               | Ahem, _cloud_ ransomware.
        
             | ronsor wrote:
             | Anyone with a ground station aimed at the datacenter
             | satellite.
        
           | mandevil wrote:
           | International space law (starting with the Outer Space Treaty
           | of 1967) says that nations are responsible for all spacecraft
           | they launch, no matter whether the government or a non-
           | governmental group launches them. So a server farm launched
           | by a Danish company is governed by Danish law just the same
           | as if they were on the ground- and exposed to the same
           | ability to put someone into jail if they don't comply with a
           | legal warrant etc.
           | 
           | This is true even if your company moves the actual launching
           | to, say, a platform in international waters- you (either a
           | corporation or an individual) are still regulated by your
           | home country, and that country is responsible for your
           | actions and has full enforcement rights over you. There is no
           | area beyond legal control, space is not a magic "free from
           | the government" area.
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _nations are responsible for all spacecraft they launch, no
             | matter whether the government or a non-governmental group
             | launches them._
             | 
             | Nations come and go. In my lifetime, the world map has
             | changed dozens of times. Incorporate in a country that
             | doesn't look like it's going to be around very long. More
             | than likely, the people running it will be happy to take
             | your money.
        
               | christina97 wrote:
               | Generally though, countries don't disappear: they have a
               | predecessor and a successor.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | A successor may take possession of the land, but that
               | doesn't mean it will also take responsibility for the
               | previous government's liabilities.
        
               | alephnerd wrote:
               | Those kinds of countries don't tend to be the kinds of
               | countries with active space programs.
               | 
               | And more critically - they have successor states.
               | 
               | The Russian Federation is treated as the successor to the
               | USSR in most cases (much to the chagrin of the rest of
               | the CIS) and Serbia is treated as the successor to
               | Yugoslavia (much to the chagrin of the rest)
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Unless the company blasts its HQ and all its employees into
           | space, no, they are very much subject to the jurisdiction of
           | the countries they operate in. The physical location of the
           | data center is irrelevant.
        
             | peterbonney wrote:
             | Exactly. Government entities have a funny habit of making
             | their own decisions about what (and who) is and is not
             | subject to their jurisdiction.
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | The best argument I've heard for data centres in space startups
         | is it's a excuse to do engineering work on components other
         | space companies might want to buy (radiators, shielding, rad-
         | hardened chips, data transfer, space batteries) which are too
         | unsexy to attract the same level of FOMO investment...
        
         | kolbe wrote:
         | Re: reliable energy. Even in low earth orbit, isn't sunlight
         | plentiful? My layman's guess says it's in direct sun 80-95% of
         | the time, with deterministic shade.
        
           | energywut wrote:
           | Depends on your orbit, but you need to be prepared to rotate
           | into Earth's shadow seamlessly.
        
           | notahacker wrote:
           | It's super reliable, provided you've got the stored energy
           | for the reliable periods of downtime (or a sun synchronous
           | orbit). Energy storage is a solved problem, but you need
           | rather a lot of it for a datacentre and that's all mass which
           | is very expensive to launch and to replace at the end of its
           | usable lifetime. Same goes for most of the other problems
           | brought up
        
             | energywut wrote:
             | Exactly this. It's not that it's a difficult problem, but
             | it is a high mass-budget problem. Which makes it an
             | expensive problem. Which makes it a difficult problem.
        
             | malfist wrote:
             | You answered it yourself, a sun synchronous orbit negates
             | the need for large battery systems.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Bandwidth - negligible
        
         | wkat4242 wrote:
         | Yes cooling is difficult. Half the "solar panels" on the ISS
         | aren't solar panels but heat radiation panels. That's the only
         | way you can get rid of it and it's very inefficient so you need
         | a huge surface.
        
       | fsh wrote:
       | I wonder if Starcloud is some kind of social experiment to figure
       | out which is the dumbest possible idea that still somehow gets
       | investors.
        
         | SirFatty wrote:
         | "...dumbest possible idea.."
         | 
         | It's a crowded field, you have to do something to stand out!
        
           | wlesieutre wrote:
           | Solar roadways!
        
         | MarkusQ wrote:
         | Recently had a conversation of space based solar power pros and
         | cons screech to a halt when someone said "Well what about space
         | based geothermal?"
        
           | Metacelsus wrote:
           | maybe on Io :)
        
       | ericyd wrote:
       | This site is unusable on my mobile android phone, even tried
       | multiple browsers. The body text extends beyond the window and I
       | can't scroll or zoom to fit.
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | Same for me.
         | 
         | But does work if I rotate phone to landscape mode.
        
       | kemotep wrote:
       | Here is a video that I think thoroughly covers the challenges a
       | datacenter in orbit would face.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAcR7kqOb3o
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | My napkin is with Starcloud
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43190778 , ie. one Starship
       | $10M launch - 10 000 GPU datacenter into LEO with energy and
       | cooling. I missed there batteries for the half the time being in
       | the Earth shadow, that adds 5Kg for 1 KWH, and thus it will get
       | down to about 7000 GPU for the same weight and launch cost.
       | 
       | Paradoxically the datacenter in LEO is cheaper than on the
       | ground, and have bunch of other benefits like for example
       | physical security.
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-26 23:00 UTC)