[HN Gopher] Getting by on the Generosity of Strangers in Japan
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Getting by on the Generosity of Strangers in Japan
Author : ilamont
Score : 75 points
Date : 2025-06-23 22:03 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (theworld.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (theworld.org)
| forgotoldacc wrote:
| One consequence of "Japanese hospitality" being widely known is
| that there are now swathes of tourists visiting with the
| expectation of getting their own "magical experience".
|
| Some people living in places that have become tourist areas are
| putting up signs announcing their home toilets are not for public
| use. Because apparently some tourists have said things like "When
| I needed to use the bathroom and there was nowhere else around, I
| knocked on a random person's door and they were kind enough to
| let me use it!" So now a non-zero number of people go there with
| the expectation that they can (and possibly should) do the same.
|
| Tourists used to be a novelty to Japanese. Now with over 40
| million projected for this year, a massive rise from about 6
| million in 2012, a large number of them taking extended vacations
| (in contrast to Euros who might hop a border for a weekend and
| boost tourist counts quickly), people are getting quickly burnt
| out with the entitlement many of them exhibit. To tourists, it's
| a magical, unique vacation and they must have the Ghibli
| experience someone else posted about. To locals, countless people
| are harassing you everyday demanding unreasonable things.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Also, everything has become absurdly expensive for the locals.
| During covid you could often find a hotel for 10,000 yen.
| forgotoldacc wrote:
| Pre-covid/covid times were great with 8000 yen business
| hotels in Tokyo. Capsule hotels were meant for salarymen and
| available for sub-3000. Now they're also part of the country-
| sized amusement park experience. Capsule hotels now easily
| exceed 10000 yen and business hotels can be over 30000 (I've
| seen 45000 for shabby places that would've been half empty
| pre-covid).
|
| Wages are also not moving and locals are becoming second
| class citizens in their own country and rapidly. Add it to
| the entitlement everyone has and the "hospitality" that used
| to be found everywhere is now rapidly and noticeably going
| away. People don't know just how different it was before the
| tourism boom.
| Aeolun wrote:
| It's not like things have become unbearably expensive
| though. It's mostly tourist stuff. I'll certainly take
| Japan over the price increases I've heard about in the rest
| of the world.
| yamakadi wrote:
| It's easy to say that if you aren't living a normal life
| here. Grocery receipts are growing faster than they ever
| have. It's all small and incremental but enough to nearly
| double what we spent half a decade ago.
|
| Keep in mind this is a country where new graduate
| salaries have been unchanging for the past 30 years. Even
| small rates of inflation is relatively devastating to
| certain groups.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| I went to Japan in 2019 and 2024 and didn't notice a
| significant difference except for things that are clearly
| for tourists. The biggest one being the Japan Rail Pass,
| which almost doubled.
|
| An important thing to consider is that the yen is really
| cheap now, it means lots of tourists because life is
| cheaper and high prices for imported goods for the locals.
| tecleandor wrote:
| That expensive? I've been checking prices this past weeks
| and I've seen prices around 8-10000 yen for regular hotels.
|
| Got 5 nights in Asakusa for Y=43000 (in a hotel that's a
| bit more tourist oriented), and also got offered by Smar-EX
| a combo of Nozomi round ticket to Kyoto and three nights
| there in what looked like a business-hotel for a total of
| around Y=45000.
|
| But of course, no doubt everything is getting expensive and
| crowded. I have "almost family" there, and I've been 4
| times since 2007 (this next month is going to be my fifth)
| and the change on tourism was already very noticeable
| around 2018. And the numbers after COVID went crazy, and
| the low Yen is helping that too.
|
| And it can be seen on the flight tickets too. Prices went
| down after the Tohoku tsunami (I remember paying around
| EUR470 for a round ticket in December 2012 or so), in
| August 2015 I paid EUR750, in August 2018 EUR780, and this
| year for July it's ~EUR1200 for economy and more than EUR2K
| for Economy plus (!). I guess that also having to avoid
| Russia helps raising prices.
|
| I'm worried they're going the same path than here in Spain,
| where trying to find a room in Madrid or Barcelona for less
| than 70EUR a night usually means having a shared bathroom,
| or even sleeping in bunk beds in a 8 to 12 person room. Not
| to talk about the rentals or general real state prices...
|
| Edit: Ah, of course, as GuB-42 says, Rail Pass has doubled.
| But I guess that due to the low prices the trains were
| getting crowded and unavailable for locals... It's a
| bummer, but I'm not mad at all.
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| Having come to have known the Japan of the 90s, I was
| disenchanted enough by my last trip in late 2019 that I
| haven't made plans to return.
|
| The traveler zones full of English and kitsch had swollen
| to encompass everywhere within walking distance of the
| first 6-10 stops out from any major station. The apartment
| prices out there also remained high, despite how poor and
| relatively unpopulated the areas were.
|
| And, nostalgically, it was filled with Chinese families
| that reminded me of the tired, loud, inadvertently rude
| Americans that stood out 30 years ago. I was surprised to
| see the formerly silent annoyance of the locals towards
| them and every other dayhike backpack-wearing, heavily
| scented foreigner simmer over into someone saying something
| as they exited the trains more than once. When people
| couldn't give them their own cars, they turned their backs
| and give them an obvious wide berth.
|
| Even Kyoto was like this, and I had to travel far enough
| off the beaten path to find somewhere that didn't feel like
| either a Japanese theme park or any other international
| city in the world that I just ended up staying in my
| family's home village, where only the parents and
| grandparents hadn't left.
| GuB-42 wrote:
| Also note that the article is about a _guesthouse_. It is a
| business and you pay for the service. It is not about getting
| inside random people homes because whoever is living there is
| too polite to kick you out.
|
| The old lady in the article is so kind and polite because she
| respects you _as a customer_ , takes pride in her job, and
| wants you to feel at ease. Service tradition really is
| something there. But don't get things wrong, it is still a
| business relationship.
| srvmshr wrote:
| > _Some people living in places that have become tourist areas
| are putting up signs announcing their home toilets are not for
| public use_.
|
| I read that on r/Tokyo Reddit as well a while back. Quite
| shocking. It was some person complaining living near a large
| public park (possibly Shinjuku or Inokashira) about his
| personal premises being violated because toilet queues were
| quite long & people kept knocking at their door. Not sure if we
| both are referring to the same incident?
|
| [For reference to others, there are enough portable toilets in
| these public parks to deal with tourist surge, but obviously no
| arrangement can handle 25000+ visitors everyday without having
| queues]
|
| More ridiculous stories have popped up once in a while in japan
| tourist subreddits. This sakura blossom season, a British
| tourist couple were seeking legal recourse to avoid detention
| and move back to their home country ASAP after running over an
| elderly woman with the rental car. Some people probably don't
| take consequences in a tourist destination seriously.
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| The latter case sounds more like mental derangement under
| stress.
|
| I really doubt even lower ranking actual diplomats could
| reasonably expect to get away with running over an elderly
| Japanese grandma in Japan.
|
| Nearly all the smaller countries would waive even up to a
| minister-counsellor's immunity in that scenario.
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > Nearly all the smaller countries would waive even up to a
| minister-counsellor's immunity in that scenario.
|
| Sadly, if the UK's experience is anything to go by, if it
| is a US government worker / diplomat they would be on the
| first plane home[1].
|
| I fear it would be no different in Japan. The US would get
| away with it. Even more so in the Trump era where he would
| probably make some dumb threats to the country to force
| their hand.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn
| MichaelZuo wrote:
| Well yeah that's why I said smaller countries... the big
| countries have minister-counsellors, sometimes even
| attaches, that are really significant people, and might
| get away with it.
|
| Especially if it's a cover for their actual position with
| a much higher rank.
| robk wrote:
| She was clearly an intelligence officer not a low level
| diplomat or staffer
| corimaith wrote:
| The usual this is why we can't have nice things. Hospitality
| only thrives when it is not abused as an expectation rather
| than a privilege.
| anal_reactor wrote:
| The more I interact with people the less I think of an
| average person. Case in point - my neighborhood has a huge
| trash problem. People just dump it on the street. Why some
| communities consider that normal behavior is beyond me.
| graemep wrote:
| > Why some communities consider that normal behavior is
| beyond me.
|
| Because they are not real communities. People living in the
| same place but with no sense of connection or shared
| identity or shared interests.
| mc32 wrote:
| Those humans are creatures and lack a bit of that which
| characterizes civilization. They exist in all countries and
| within all ethnicities, sometimes to varying degrees, but
| they are everywhere.
| K0balt wrote:
| A failure of inculturation. By default, humans are just
| clever apes. Language and culture transforms us into
| thinking beings that inhabit a worldview beyond the
| sensorium, of potentials, of possibilities, of hidden
| truths.
|
| The inculturated self is meant to be in charge of the
| animal self. We see this in the inherent duality
| presented in language: "self control" implying a
| controller and one to be controlled; getting in in touch
| with yourself, implying a self and an estranged self...
| there are lots of these that explicitly call out the
| duality of the human experience.
|
| This internal hierarchy is instilled in childhood with
| varying degrees of success. Some fail almost completely
| and live a life of reactivity, conspicuously devoid of
| consequential consideration. Some revert to the animal
| self through drug addiction. There are many maladies to
| describe the failure of character that is seen when
| inculturation breaks down.
| adrianN wrote:
| Tourism reliably destroys places. Southern Italy is another
| example where the sheer masses of tourists have completely
| ruined a whole area.
| matwood wrote:
| Italy is a lot like most places in the EU where tourists
| visit a few Instagram sites and nothing else. I think it's
| incorrect to say it's ruining southern Italy when the reality
| is it's a few areas.
|
| I was just at the Louvre where the wing with the Mona Lisa
| was overrun - the busiest I've ever seen it. The other wings
| were almost ghost towns.
|
| I understand that when people travel they want to see the
| highlights, but I wish they would also explore a bit.
|
| https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/surging-travel-europe-
| spik...
| abtinf wrote:
| The Mona Lisa gets over run, while the room holding the
| _the code of Hammurabi_ (!!!) is basically deserted.
| terribleperson wrote:
| I didn't even know they had the code of Hammurabi. Now I
| want to see it.
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| When I tried to go recently I believe that room was
| closed for refurbishment :(
| seatac76 wrote:
| I remember going to the Louvre into the room with a Mona
| Lisa and being surprised by two things:
|
| - How small the actual painting is, I always imagined it to
| be bigger.
|
| - And the sea of heads between the entrance and the
| panting, there was no way I could get to the front to
| admire it up close.
|
| The rest of the museum though was lovely to walk around in.
| mslansn wrote:
| Southern Italy has nothing else to offer, so it's either that
| or live off the rest of the country. (Yes, I know many would
| be happy to just do that)
| tecleandor wrote:
| Nothing else except for what?
| mslansn wrote:
| Except for tourism. Read the context of my message.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| _tourists visiting with the expectation of getting their own
| "magical experience"._
|
| Having unrealistic expectations go unfulfilled sounds like what
| a lot of Japanese tourists feel about Paris:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome
|
| I also think tourists, as a class, tend to be more entitled
| than others. They usually have money and also having spent
| money, they expect hospitality on their terms (realistically or
| not).
|
| FWIW, I had a recent trip to Japan before news of issues with
| tourists, and I would describe my experience as "magical", not
| because of generosity of strangers though. None was needed.
| Naoshima in particular is magical on its own.
| astura wrote:
| OMG, This reminds me of the ridiculous "50 years of travel
| tips" that showed up on HN a few months back
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43066720
|
| Including gems such as:
|
| -have your Uber driver take you to his mother's house so she'll
| cook for you
|
| -crash a wedding, you'll be the "celebrity guest"
| rsynnott wrote:
| > Even if you never go to McDonalds at home, visit the
| McDonalds on your travels.
|
| Eh?
|
| > If you detect slightly more people moving in one direction
| over another, follow them. If you keep following this
| "gradient" of human movement, you will eventually land on
| something interesting--a market, a parade, a birthday party,
| an outdoor dance, a festival.
|
| Or, y'know, a train station or something.
|
| I'm slightly unsure whether this is parody or not.
| gs17 wrote:
| The McDonalds part isn't as weird as it sounds. Almost
| anywhere outside the US, it's very different and usually
| much better, and they redesign portions of the menu for the
| local cuisine (e.g. there's teriyaki burgers and fillet-o-
| shrimp in Japan, a lot of veg options in India). I wouldn't
| make it a priority, but it's really interesting to see at
| least and not an expensive or long sidetrip. It's
| definitely a more "American" perspective, but there's a
| good reason.
| deepsun wrote:
| Don't forget that "tourists" also get stereotyped. There are
| respecting, caring and careful tourists, who don't try to
| overuse the hospitality.
| ronsor wrote:
| > So now a non-zero number of people go there with the
| expectation that they can (and possibly should) do the same.
|
| Is this actually common now?
| gwd wrote:
| I feel like every word in the title is deceptive: Someone you're
| renting a room from is not a "stranger", nor is their renting it
| to you "generosity", nor are you simply "getting by". "Enjoying
| the hospitality of small guesthouses and private hosts" would be
| much more accurate.
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