[HN Gopher] Howdy - Windows Hello style facial authentication fo...
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Howdy - Windows Hello style facial authentication for Linux
Author : LorenDB
Score : 68 points
Date : 2025-06-23 18:34 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| deafpolygon wrote:
| Why does it depend on python2...?
| Arnavion wrote:
| Ask the Fedora maintainer? The README instructions only say
| Python 3. The OpenSUSE package's specfile only says Python 3,
| and to be sure I tried installing it and it did not pull in
| Python 2 packages.
|
| Actually even the Fedora package's specfile only says Python 3,
| so I'm not sure why the README says that it still needs Python
| 2.
|
| Edit: Okay, the explanation is in this commit message:
| https://github.com/boltgolt/howdy/commit/305e42fc79ef38f66c5...
| . The dep on Python 2 is from Fedora's PAM module package, not
| from howdy itself. On OpenSUSE the corresponding PAM module
| package depends on Python 3 already.
| aitchnyu wrote:
| Last time I tried it, I wished the DM indicated its processing my
| face and also if it failed, and a button to retry. Also will the
| model be fooled by an IR photo of my face?
|
| I did have fun opening the IR camera feed and seeing objects of
| various opacity in visible spectrum behaving differently in IR.
| Boltgolt wrote:
| Main dev here: If you're on the 3.0 version you'll be able to
| install howdy-gtk, which will show a popup at the top of your
| screen when authenticating.
|
| You can also enable "rubberstamps" which require an action from
| you like nodding yes to confirm authentication and making it
| harder to fool. As noted in the readme though, Howdy is never
| going to be 100% secure
| charcircuit wrote:
| This isn't "Windows Hello style." This program extracts features
| from a 2d image instead of doing depth reconstruction first. This
| makes it easy to fool with a piece of paper.
|
| Also this only handles user authentication unlike on Windows
| where it can be usedpasskey. disk encryption and for passkeys.
|
| Edit: This program also saves the landmarks of your face into a
| file in plain text when it gets added.
| senectus1 wrote:
| yeah its more of a taster demo. I wish them luck in developing
| it properly though... I'm doing an ubuntu MOE for a corp atm
| and man, I really miss the windows hello logins.
| _joel wrote:
| Is 'Hello' and those kind of biometrics generally enabled at
| $CORP? The ones I've gigged at have been the polar opposite
| of using it, due to regulatroy requirements. Even disabling
| macos fingerprint reader company-wide, which is prerry darn
| good imho.
| senectus1 wrote:
| yeah hello encompass facial recognition (must be dual IR
| cams), Fingerprint sensor and PIN.
|
| none are perfect but they allow users to easily access
| their devices without having to remember and type in huge
| passwords.
| lozenge wrote:
| I've had the opposite experience, my CORP now pushes most
| auth through my phone's biometric authentication, I don't
| even use a password.
| written-beyond wrote:
| Really? When I tried on an hp spectre 5 years ago it made the
| hell sensors make a horrible clicking sounds and the LEDs glow
| red. I assumed it was doing something with depth analysis.
| Boltgolt wrote:
| Depth reconstruction with IR cameras in laptops today is
| incredibly hard. While the camera itself is exposed in Linux as
| a USB camera, the sync with the IR emitters is completely lost.
| Because of this we cannot extract a "left" and "right" lit
| image reliably as Windows hello does
| jeroenhd wrote:
| FWIW Microsoft's branding team fumbling everything into Windows
| Hello isn't the project's fault. The "Windows Hello" part that
| they're trying to find an alternative for was the only "Windows
| Hello" for a while before Microsoft also decided that all of
| their TPM operations were now Windows Hello things.
|
| That said, without the depth reconstruction, I do agree that
| this is nowhere close to Windows Hello's features. That's not
| the devs' fault (that kind of mostly-secure facial recognition
| is very hard) but I also don't think the comparison is apt. But
| who knows, if this project gains popularity, maybe in the
| future that kind of thing becomes possible.
|
| This is more akin to Android's facial recognition, except for
| using the IR camera. Which is still acceptable for plenty of
| people. After all, many fingerprint readers on Linux share
| similar risks and are often regarded as secure enough. I think
| the availability of this project, even if it's nowhere near
| Windows Hello's standards, is a great addition to many Linux
| desktops, as long as their users understand the limitations.
|
| As for the plaintext, Linux doesn't really have a secure
| storage mechanism (even the standard secrets API is easy to
| fool) so obfuscating the facial features doesn't really serve a
| purpose. As long as your disk is encrypted, I don't think
| that's a risk (and if it isn't, whoever is looking at your
| laptop can just browse through your photo albums anyway).
| bsimpson wrote:
| I know there was extensive testing when face recognition
| authentication came to smartphones. I wonder how an open source
| project like this one compares. I suspect there are substantially
| more false positives/negatives than on a commercially developed
| version that needs to support everyone to be successful.
| e-topy wrote:
| Apple's Face ID uses what is essentially a 3D camera, a simple
| 2D color camera cannot compare to that in terms of accuracy.
| lozenge wrote:
| Windows also uses infrared LEDs to light your face and
| prevent a flat photo from being recognised as a face.
| throwaway889900 wrote:
| Windows is an operating system and does not have dependence
| on specific hardware being present.
| 98codes wrote:
| There are definitely webcams that work with Windows
| Hello, and those that don't.
| zettabomb wrote:
| Incorrect. Windows Hello uses special hardware.
| throwaway889900 wrote:
| Right, Windows Hello requires it for facial auth, Windows
| itself does not. Hello still works, just you have to
| authenticate with a different method if the hardware
| isn't present.
| aniviacat wrote:
| AFAIK Pixel phones, including the Pixel 9, only use 2D images
| for face unlock. So it's definitely possible to reach
| mainstream quality with conventional cameras.
|
| (Unless you'd argue that the face unlock found on Pixels is
| not passable either)
| MengerSponge wrote:
| I don't know how Google does it, but it's possible to
| extract 3d information from a 2d sensor. You either need a
| variable focus or phase detection in the sensor.
| crowcroft wrote:
| Apple has clearly done a lot of work in this space and have
| decided to retain Touch ID on Macbooks. I think this is
| fairly instructive.
| real0mar wrote:
| That was primarily because the face id sensor stack is too
| thick to fit in the laptop lid
| crowcroft wrote:
| The point being that they think they need those sensors
| in order to create a secure system.
| thekevan wrote:
| "A note on security
|
| This package is in no way as secure as a password and will
| never be. Although it's harder to fool than normal face
| recognition, a person who looks similar to you, or a well-
| printed photo of you could be enough to do it. Howdy is a more
| quick and convenient way of logging in, not a more secure one.
|
| To minimize the chance of this program being compromised, it's
| recommended to leave Howdy in /lib/security and to keep it
| read-only.
|
| DO NOT USE HOWDY AS THE SOLE AUTHENTICATION METHOD FOR YOUR
| SYSTEM."
| joelthelion wrote:
| I wish we had good support for fingerprint readers instead.
| cyp0633 wrote:
| I use fprintd and it works well with GNOME + builtin Elan
| sensor. It indeed needs more complex configuration than Touch
| ID or Windows Hello though.
| mouse_ wrote:
| In Fedora it's (supposed to be) pretty simple. Just go into
| settings -> users and add your fingerprint. In practice I
| usually have to use dnf to nuke pam and reinstall it manually
| for it to start working. But they have a good skeleton set
| up. Still no predesktop authentication, though.
| Pwntastic wrote:
| It was relatively easy to setup a yubikey bio fingerprint
| device in arch with pam-u2f. I just kinda followed the wiki
| here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Universal_2nd_Factor
|
| It wasn't strictly plug and play, but it only took like 20
| minutes of fiddling.
| amaccuish wrote:
| That, and TPM integrated WebAuthN.
| fsateler wrote:
| The project seems active, but the last release is from 2020...
| Why no new releases?
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| The gift of open source strikes yet again.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29736369
| ycombinatrix wrote:
| Why does it need a new release if it works?
| seany wrote:
| I wonder what it would take to get an OSS fr model to decent
| performance on the NIST/iBeta rankings.
| mouse_ wrote:
| Predesktop authentication is a killer feature. Hope to see it
| some day.
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(page generated 2025-06-26 23:01 UTC)