[HN Gopher] Thoughts on Asuncion, Paraguay
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Thoughts on Asuncion, Paraguay
Author : Michelangelo11
Score : 75 points
Date : 2025-06-23 07:45 UTC (2 days ago)
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| andrepd wrote:
| > Indeed, 70% of the new housing supply is acquired by foreign
| investors as a capital preservation strategy.
|
| Housing being used as an investment vehicle is pretty much a
| global problem and one of the most pernicious consequences of
| modern capitalism. Be it Argentina->Paraguay or Russia->London or
| Germany->Spain.
| kgwgk wrote:
| Real estate has been an investment vehicle used for capital
| preservation for millennia.
| andrepd wrote:
| Not quite. Owning land / land rights for productive uses has
| been the pre-eminent form of capital ownership in history up
| to the modern age. But this is building or buying solely as a
| vehicle for speculation, i.e. with only market value in mind.
| That is a capitalist "innovation".
| pieds wrote:
| In some ways, it is just more noticeable now. Because even
| countries like the US had a huge push for public infrastructure
| in the road network, state schools and energy when those things
| were both more and less important than now. Now urban housing,
| broad education and energy efficiency have become more
| important with changes in society and the economy. But there
| isn't the same public influence in those areas now.
|
| That is, there were always estates, land, and business. And
| private education. Just that public investment created and
| enabled other opportunities. A massive road network enabled
| sprawl where additional housing could be constructed at a
| decent cost. Now the economy wants density for network effects,
| but there isn't a similar expansion in public transport. So
| urban housing has become very valuable.
| cjo_dev wrote:
| The river? Contaminated since they don't have sewer system. The
| best place to go according to locals? The mall. Want to go
| anywhere else in Paraguay? It'll take you ages due to a lack of
| infrastructure.
| keiferski wrote:
| It's interesting how malls have mostly died in America but are
| still a huge thing in many countries, especially ones that have
| become more developed in the last couple of decades.
| mlcruz wrote:
| Really? This sounds very interesting, as the USA is the place
| that i would expect to have the most malls.
| thfuran wrote:
| Amazon then COVID wrecked them.
| pimlottc wrote:
| COVID might have finally done some stragglers in, but
| large scale indoors malls in the US were pretty well
| wrecked long before that
| keiferski wrote:
| Malls are looked back on nostalgically as a 90s/2000s thing
| by a big percentage of the population. The whole mallwave
| genre is one example:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mallsoft
|
| There are still many huge malls, but generally speaking the
| vast majority of them have closed, are empty, or are being
| rebranded into something else.
| benatkin wrote:
| The comment you're replying to still holds.
|
| > the USA is the place that i would expect to have the
| most malls
|
| It's just that a lot of the malls have been augmented or
| replaced by strip malls. They have the same kinds of
| stores and they are still close enough to each other that
| it's convenient. Many have security, though it's more for
| the property than it is for the employees or guests, and
| there are large ones all over the place. You can go to
| Target and get a $14 can opener that you were hoping to
| pay $5 for but they made sure not to carry any cheap can
| openers, and notice there's a cell phone store nearby and
| go and get locked into a contract where you pay more than
| double. Don't forget to get some boring, expensive, and
| unhealthy food on the way out.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| _> This sounds very interesting, as the USA is the place
| that i would expect to have the most malls._
|
| Since online shopping took over, why would Americans travel
| long distances by car to go to the mall?
| hansvm wrote:
| Some things are still a lot easier to buy in-person, like
| books and clothes. Online stores rarely have enough
| information about the product, either as a whole
| (materials, specs, etc) or as an instance (wear and tear,
| etc).
| cjo_dev wrote:
| With the rise of expendable income in developing countries,
| malls fill a need to buy items to improve their standard of
| living. I'd argue developed countries have already improved
| their quality of life enough that malls aren't needed as
| much.
| another_one_112 wrote:
| malls have: - security - parking - AC It's the perfect place
| for going out in a developing country.
| mrbombastic wrote:
| I recently went back to my local mall (in the US) for the
| first time in a long time that was a ghost town until
| recently and it was packed full of kids and families!
| Arcades, carnival style games in storefronts, ice cream
| stores, go karts, they even had one of those Japanese style
| capsule stores. It seems has become less explicitly shopping
| place and more a place to kill a few hours with the family.
| Would be interested if this is a trend in other places.
| jltsiren wrote:
| I guess it's because of the shrinking middle class. Fewer
| Americans live in middle-income households, and their share
| of total consumer spending has gone down even more.
| Businesses specialize by being cheap or targeting the
| wealthy. Nice and affordable is no longer as viable strategy
| as it used to be.
| bartread wrote:
| They have (or had) bus services somewhat similar to Greyhound
| in the US. A friend and I took a trip to the Iguacu falls from
| Asuncion (more than 20 years ago, granted), which was an
| overnight bus trip with a brief stop in Ciudad del Este. It was
| reasonably comfortable as these things go. In a car it would be
| quicker but still probably 5 - 6 hours even though it's not
| much more than 200 miles because, as you've pointed out, the
| roads aren't amazing.
|
| The railway had closed down only a few years before I visited
| but, at that time, there was little hope of it reopening. I've
| no idea what's happened since.
| sombragris wrote:
| As a "local", I wouldn't ever recommend a mall for going. Maybe
| a good bar, there are some here.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| There is a rather splendid travel book about the strange country
| that is Paraguay called 'At the Tomb of the Inflatable Pig:
| Travels through Paraguay'. Part history, part travelogue. All
| weird. Probably only available second hand. I've never been
| there. Having read the above book, I'm not sure I want to.
|
| IIRC Paraguay's economy is based in some part on smuggling stuff
| into other countries, duty free. Whisky in particular.
|
| The long term dictator, Stroessner, is credibly accused of having
| abducted and raped vast numbers of underage girls.
| https://www.americasquarterly.org/fulltextarticle/how-paragu...
| bartread wrote:
| There's a Behind The Bastards two parter on Stroessner: very
| much worth listening to. They cover the underage girls issue,
| for which I'd say the accusations are more than credible, but
| he was an absolute scumbag for plenty of other reasons as well,
| including his Nazi associations. Paraguay provided a key hub
| and waypoint for Nazis escaping Europe in the aftermath of
| WWII.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| I like 'Behind The Bastards' podcast (if 'like' is the right
| word for a podcast about awful people) and have listened to
| quite a few, including the Stroessner episodes. But some of
| the guests on the podcast seems a bit clueless and don't add
| much IMO.
| rurban wrote:
| Maybe it helps to read about the history of Asuncion first:
| https://asunciontimes.com/culture/paraguayan-history/history...
| SchwKatze wrote:
| There is an increasingly interest among Brazilians (specially
| libertarians) to change its citizenship to Paraguay, most due its
| fiscal policies that are the complete opposite from Brazil. Apart
| from rich regions like Southeast and South, Paraguay is like any
| other place in Brazil.
|
| I'm compelled to live there as well, but the factor of living far
| from anything interesting is quite important in my book, but
| definitely is better than Brazil (which for me doesn't have any
| future). I would prefer to move to richer countries but it's been
| harder and harder these days
| voxleone wrote:
| >>Apart from rich regions like Southeast and South, Paraguay is
| like any other place in Brazil.
|
| That would be a problem, no offense. I get the sentiments, but
| Brazil is not a basket case by any measure. I'm in upstate Sao
| Paulo and have traveled to Paraguay many times, and have
| Guarany speaking [brazilian] friends with properties there. The
| ruling elite there is authoritarian in a way that is hard to
| convey. You just got to see for yourself.
|
| Anyways, it's not a place for inquisitive and authority averse
| minds.
| zubiaur wrote:
| As a teenager, I backpacked around Latin America with some
| friends. Due to some issues in Bolivia, we ended up taking the
| long way to Brazil, through Paraguay.
|
| The contrast was stark. We crossed the border and changed buses.
| Instead of a truck converted into a bus, with rain leaking
| through the roof, we had a decent Marcopolo with AC. Instead of a
| dirt road, there was pavement.
|
| We arrived in Asuncion late at night and grabbed a hotel not too
| far from the bus station. The woman at the front desk treated us
| like crap. So rude. We were exhausted and honestly didn't care
| much, but man, I still remember that lady's butt face. But then
| we handed over our burgundy passports.
|
| Her face changed; from what seemed like barely contained rage to
| instant guilt. "I'm so, so, so sorry, I thought you were
| Argentinean. I didn't know." She showed us the rooms and even had
| someone help us with our bags.
|
| Seems like the War of the Triple Alliance is still a source of
| hurt.
|
| We didn't stay long in Asuncion; we took the bus to Iguazu the
| next morning. The little we saw, we liked. It seemed to be moving
| in a better direction than La Paz, Bolivia. And while still a bit
| underdeveloped, it felt like a nice, welcoming city. Unless, of
| course, you happened to be Argentinean.
| radeck wrote:
| A common stereotype in Paraguay is that Argentinians are rich
| assholes that look down on the Paraguayans, so not directly
| because of the war.
| sombragris wrote:
| The stereotype is right, except for the "rich" part. And it's
| mostly applied to "portenos", the inhabitants of Buenos
| Aires. Natives from provinces can get a "pass" in short time.
| paulsen wrote:
| I wonder, do people from Paraguay "get" the accent from the
| different provinces? I mean it is pretty easy for us
| Argentines to differentiate a porteno from a cordobes and
| even someone from the northern provinces (specially if they
| use slang) with a short conversation
|
| Granted, whenever I had any sort of conversation with
| someone from Paraguay I had trouble to differentiate their
| language from someone from the Argentine northeast unless
| they started using some Guarani words (and that is still
| not that useful given it is also spoken in the Corrientes
| province)
| sombragris wrote:
| Some accents are very distinct, such as the Cordobese one
| you mention. Others, not so much (e.g., people from
| Rosario), they come off as "Argentine" and that's it.
| steviedotboston wrote:
| Paraguay has a long history of stupid wars. They started the
| Chaco War with Bolivia over control of the Chaco region, which
| they thought was full of oil. Turns out it wasn't and it it's
| mostly uninhabited forests with some Mennonites now.
| Darthbuddha wrote:
| There's rich mineral/gas deposits. Also the part that we lost
| to Bolivia does contain oil. Also with fracking probably there
| is oil to be found, but not worth the investment, yet. Don't
| spread misinformation please. Half of The Chaco was already
| occupied by Bolivia when the war started. It wasn't Paraguay
| just starting the war. Same for triple alianza, England had a
| lot of interest in keeping Paraguay from becoming
| industrialized.
| hermitcrab wrote:
| >England had a lot of interest in keeping Paraguay from
| becoming industrialized.
|
| I don't remember reading about that. Please explain.
| sombragris wrote:
| That was a limits problem to which several negotiated outcomes
| were tried, none of them successful. Then Bolivians tried a
| policy of encroaching military forts in the Chaco region. It
| was a matter of time before a Bolivian patrol would clash with
| a Paraguayan patrol. That's how happened. I wouldn't say it was
| stupid more than any other border wars are stupid.
| sombragris wrote:
| Paraguayan, living in Asuncion. Interesting, yet a bit
| simplistic, take. Things in Paraguay are much more complex and
| nuanced than they seem at first sight.
|
| Asuncion downtown is "incoherent" as the OP said, but one of the
| factors is that most historic buildings in it are concentrated in
| the hands of a very few landlords. The buildings, since they are
| historic, cannot be demolished, and property taxes for downtown
| are quite high. So, the landlords leave them to rot, building new
| things after the buildings fall down due to neglect, taking
| advantage of the fait accompli.
|
| That remark about "con factura or sin factura?" (invoice or no
| invoice) is not longer a thing. Most businesses now give you a
| legal invoice as a matter of course.
|
| Anyway, nice to see my hometown featured on HN.
| aunty_helen wrote:
| Westerners and gringos especially, have a special ability to turn
| up to a place that's different from where they came and point out
| all of the failings in their eyes. Neglecting that the reasons
| they hate their own country might be coupled to those
| differences.
| inglor_cz wrote:
| Certain distance helps with observation. If you are used to X
| from your childhood, it may not strike you that X is
| counterproductive.
|
| This would work equally well for a Paraguayan coming to the
| West.
|
| BTW the city where I live (Ostrava) is architecturally weirdly
| mixed as well, at least in the older parts, where Communist
| blocks of flats were often built into a bomb-related gap in an
| older street built in a very different (and usually more human-
| friendly) style.
|
| This is a good example:
|
| https://mapy.com/s/covogafahu
|
| How I dislike that green tower...
| paulvs wrote:
| A couple of reasons why Paraguay is a great place for remote
| workers:
|
| * Friendly people * Great food (soups like Vori Vori, delicious
| BBQ) * Decent internet * Cheap rent * Low taxes (no taxes on
| foreign income) * Timezone alignment with the US * Economic
| stability
|
| I've been here over 10 years and as long as you learn to not rely
| too much on public services, you'll be fine.
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