[HN Gopher] Backyard Coffee and Jazz in Kyoto
___________________________________________________________________
Backyard Coffee and Jazz in Kyoto
Author : wyclif
Score : 353 points
Date : 2025-06-23 14:37 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thedeletedscenes.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (thedeletedscenes.substack.com)
| Mistletoe wrote:
| As a vintage audio lover, I'm legally obligated to ask what the
| speakers and amplifier are.
| js2 wrote:
| The amp is a Luxman SQ-505X:
|
| https://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/10-50554-58488-00.html?LNG=E
|
| https://hifi-wiki.com/index.php/Luxman_SQ_505X
|
| There's a pair of bookshelf speakers above the Luxman that are
| probably what it's driving. Very generic looking, those
| speakers could be almost anything. Maybe Tannoy Revolution R1
| based on what appears to be an oval badge below the grill
| cloth?
|
| https://www.ebay.com/itm/177053328835
|
| The two speakers on their side are subwoofers, likely with JBL
| drivers, possibly in DIY cabinets. The Luxman can't possibly be
| driving them (not nearly enough power). The subs may not be
| functional and the cabinets are just being used as a table?
|
| Here's a similar DIY subwoofer cabinet and drivers for sale:
|
| https://www.hifido.co.jp/sold/16-05245-90998-00.html?LNG=E
| wagwang wrote:
| I went to a cafe in kyoto near the bamboo forest where it was
| literally an old ladies house and in the moment, being there
| conjured deep resentment within me towards urban planners and
| zoning.
| ecshafer wrote:
| Japan has zoning but its done very sensibly.
|
| In the US our zoning is done very restrictively: in this place
| you can build a detached single family home with this kind of
| set back and up to this height. In this spot you can build low
| density commercial. Etc you can ONLY build what the zoning
| board says. Then there are also complications from HUD, like
| they dont give FHA loans for condos or if developments have
| straight roads.
|
| In japan the national government has a zoning policy. The most
| common zoning is "light industrial". But if you have a zoning
| policy, you can build anything at that level or below. So in
| light industrial you can build a coffee shop, or a house or an
| apartment or a machine shop.
| bravesoul2 wrote:
| Hey what. Near the bamboo forest they didn't build high rises.
| So. Kyoto has excellent density in general. The transit is
| excellent too.
| SSJPython wrote:
| There's just something about Japan that makes its simplicity so
| beautiful. Yes, we all know Japan has dealt with economic
| problems, lost decades, declining fertility, etc.
|
| But they still manage to keep the beautiful simplicity of life
| that makes their culture one of the world's richest.
| mupuff1234 wrote:
| It all goes back to zoning laws and regulations.
| SSJPython wrote:
| I think that is part of the reason. Japanese zoning is very
| liberal and loose compared to the US.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| And economic viability; can the owner make a living wage with
| this setup, or do they have other income sources? What is their
| total cost of living?
| 1776smithadam wrote:
| Again, goes back to zoning laws.
|
| Housing is the biggest expenditure for people in America and
| many parts of the world. Housing is cheap is Japan so people
| can get by on much less.
| asimpletune wrote:
| That's interesting. So at least in this sense Japan seems
| like an excellent place for one to sell their home and
| downsize.
| joshmarinacci wrote:
| That is indeed what's happening. The countryside is
| emptying out and people are moving to the big cities.
| spacemadness wrote:
| The one country that seems to do housing right and not
| consider it an investment vehicle. Unlike our depressing
| situation that is tearing society apart.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| That it's considered an investment vehicle is downstream
| from the rising markets due to tight regulation which
| limit supply. In Japan what zones exist is standardized
| across the country and what zone applies to a given area
| is defined by the government in Tokyo. This prevents
| local homeowners to lobby for tighter regulation to
| strangle supply.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| >That it's considered an investment vehicle is downstream
| from the rising markets
|
| That's not what its downstream from, that's restating the
| same thing in financial terms. What it's actually
| downstream from is that Japan is a fully urbanized
| society. The reason why Americans cannot implement this
| is because houses are their little homesteads and
| castles, Fukuyama used the term "suburban villager" for
| this attitude (also prevalent in Greece and Eastern
| Europe etc.)
| timr wrote:
| Housing is absolutely an investment vehicle in Japan.
| It's just that Japan has been economically stagnant for
| 30+ years, bordering on deflation, and anywhere outside
| of a first- or second-tier city is effectively dying.
| Couple that with the Japanese cultural distaste for pre-
| owned housing, and this is the outcome.
|
| If you operate a rental in any area outside of the core
| of the major cities, you are in the business of charging
| a huge monthly premium over a property value that is
| rapidly depreciating to zero. This is fundamentally
| different than the US.
| GoatInGrey wrote:
| That comes with zoning regulations. That coffee shop is
| illegal in most of North America due to being a commercial
| place-of-sale (outlawed in many residential areas), too
| small, and not having off-street parking.
|
| When you're able to operate a place like that, your fixed
| costs (i.e. rent) are drastically lower and you are able to
| sell at lower prices because of it. With more housing, your
| employees don't need high wages to afford a basic apartment.
| ericmay wrote:
| Yes. Also you can look at falling rates of entrepreneurship
| in the United States and connect the dots with the article.
| We have some neighbors who wanted to run a flower shop out
| of their garage. Can't get business insurance because it's
| not a separate location - i.e. your home and business
| cannot be the same place for physical goods.
|
| Issues like that, while perhaps sensible to someone, are
| barriers toward economic prosperity.
|
| But a new oil change location? Approved, insured, permitted
| in 5 minutes. Construction done in 2 months.
|
| We're really hellbent on making anything but the new
| highway to the new Wal-Mart and $60 Starbucks dinner (paid
| over time of course) for the kids on the way to soccer
| practice in the Jeep Wagoner illegal.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It would not pass a
| health inspection because it doesn't have sanitizable
| surfaces. The restrooms (if any) are likely not accessible,
| nor is seating nor is the entrance. Would not pass fire
| code for a commercial establishment. And probably 50 other
| things.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| If you don't have to worry about work requirements for life's
| necessities along with zoning laws to support them, the
| economic viability of operating unique, niche establishments
| goes up.
|
| That said, there are probably 0 employees and long hours
| involved.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Many small business like this are also run by retirees who
| want to meet people and bring some value to their
| community. It's legal to run a small business from a
| certain percentage of your ground floor in any location in
| Japan.
|
| It also doesn't have to be your primary source of income.
| If you can run it from a structure like this you could just
| operate a cocktail bar on the weekends. Even in the US I
| know of a small pizza place that offers takeout only on a
| few days each month and it's operated out of the owners
| mom's kitchen. Not sure how legal that is and turning that
| inti a sit-down place would certainly be an issue.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| There are specific zoning allowances and health codes for
| "home bakeries" and that sort of thing (at least in my
| area).
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Yes! Every zoning and housing regulation commission should
| evaluate every proposal by the question if it enables our
| cities to be as quirky and wonderful as Japanese cities. If
| not, it's out!
| jgon wrote:
| I generally agree with the sentiment behind this, but like
| many other things, underneath the zoning issues what it
| _actually_ _actually_ goes back to is cultural issues. For a
| large number of other countries you could loosen zoning up
| and ultimately someone would start operating an abattoir next
| to an elementary school and it would make the 5 o 'clock news
| and then the city council would throw a bunch of new
| regulations in and the whole thing would be over.
|
| I hate to even sound like this, I hate the cynicism in my
| comment, and maybe the answer is to actually just do it and
| not declare premature defeat, but having watched how other
| initiatives in my own local area have gone I can't help but
| feel that we don't have the real secret weapon that works for
| places like Japan, and makes stuff like Star Trek work
| outside of all the fancy tech, and that's sufficiently
| advanced culture to not immediately race this all to the
| bottom.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Nuisance-based zoning exists as a solution to this. E.g.
| you can operate a flower shop but not a noisy arcade. Yet
| somehow this concept doesn't seem to be able to get a hold.
| jgon wrote:
| It doesn't get a hold, because, again, culturally it is
| very hard for it to take hold. Just like your other
| response that says "well we should just start enforcing
| existing laws", the problem is that by the time you get
| into defining a nuisance in the face of some profit-
| oriented rules lawyer, or getting bylaw enforcement some
| breathing room in their workload from the 10000x other
| calls they have regarding bylaw infractions, you're
| downstream of the underlying cause and just trying to
| bandaid things up as best you can. You don't need
| nuisance based bylaws if people are starting out from a
| mindset of not wanting to be a nuisance to their
| neighbors, and Japan probably has bylaw enforcement and
| its probably really great, but it doesn't just get
| enforced by magic it gets enforced because they likely
| have a much smaller workload than exists for bylaw
| enforcement in my area, and that smaller workload is
| serviced by a number of people that is probably more
| sustainable as people generally don't constantly try to
| oppose any sort of taxes collected and so the department
| has sufficient funding that isn't at risk of being
| continually cut every civic election cycle.
|
| On and on up the chain I could go, turning this comment
| into a wall of text as we work our way up the cause and
| effect ladder until we ultimately arrive at the things a
| society values, aka its culture. Its ultimately all
| downstream of a society and culture that either is
| constantly looking for a loophole to grab whatever profit
| there is in a desperate race to the bottom, winner-takes-
| all struggle, or a society that prizes something
| different.
| mikem170 wrote:
| The Japanese deal with this by zoning policies being set at
| a national level. Localities pretty much can decide what
| part of town the smelly/industrial businesses go, and the
| rest scales based on population.
|
| The locality will plan where their high-rise/commercial
| district is, houses on side-streets are can all be
| triplexes with an option for a low-impact business as in
| the article, and secondary streets have dedicated
| businesses.
|
| As an area's population grows the federal zoning allows
| that bigger buildings can be built - small apartment
| buildings instead of houses, etc. The locals can't pull-up
| the ladder behind them and say "no new houses", locking out
| young people and renters and transplants.
|
| I assume that the problem in the US is more regulatory
| capture than culture. Starbucks doesn't want you to be able
| to sell coffee to your neighbors. And your neighbors don't
| want more housing to be built, because it might affect
| their home values. I've seen how home owners adamantly
| oppose these things.
|
| And for decades we've been left with most new housing being
| built by developers as cheap as possible - clear cutting
| some space on the outskirts of town and throwing together
| cookie cutter houses, car dependent and without much of
| anywhere nearby to socialize. It's a shame that in a
| country of 330+ million people there's not more variance.
| antonymoose wrote:
| Sadly, I think the lack of care for the other, and for social
| cohesion in Western nations preclude this.
|
| Several years ago our next door neighbor applied for a zoning
| variance to allow their home to be used as an AirBNB. All was
| fine for the first month or two, then a graduation party
| booked it, 20 vehicles show up and parked on all the
| neighbors yards, loud party late into the night, etc.
|
| All of this was reported for noise violations, parking
| violations, etc. to both the police and to AirBNB. Neither
| took any action.
|
| Months later a college fraternity booked this AirBNB for the
| entire summer. All of the above plus nightly backyard ragers
| going until 2 AM. Neither the police nor AirBNB did a damn
| thing about it. We reached out to zoning to see if we could
| protest the variance after the fact and told no, the only way
| for the variance to be revoked would be for the police to
| make so many calls to the house that it is deemed a public
| nuisance. Except the police won't show for nuisance calls and
| even if they did it would take years of this for a hearing to
| be held which may or may not decide on our favor.
|
| So... as much as I love the idea of the Japanese civic style.
| I would never give up strict zoning in America for it. People
| suck.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| Mh, the obvious solution seems to be to enforce existing
| laws rather than invent new ones.
| antonymoose wrote:
| The sad artifact of my experience is that I learned first
| hand the benefit of a stereotypical mafia organization
| and its extralegal services and their benefits to the
| otherwise law abiding public.
| mikem170 wrote:
| The home businesses in Japan are supposed to be low-impact.
| It sounds like the airbnb you mentioned was not.
|
| Japan has a set of regulations for airbnb rentals [0],
| depending on the size of the living space, whether it is
| owner-occupied, or is listed for more than half a year.
| There are sometimes inspections. Neighbors are notified and
| their complaints are taken seriously. Enforcement has been
| much more strict since 2018. Something like you mentioned
| would result in the airbnb license being revoked.
|
| Airbnb spends a lot of money lobbying politicians in the US
| not to do such things, millions just at the federal level
| [0].
|
| [0] https://mailmate.jp/blog/japan-airbnb-law
|
| [1] https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/airbnb-
| inc/summary?id=D0000...
| jonpurdy wrote:
| There are two great videos specifically on Japanese zoning and
| narrow streets:
|
| Life Where I'm From, on zoning: https://youtu.be/wfm2xCKOCNk
|
| Not Just Bikes, narrow streets: https://youtu.be/jlwQ2Y4By0U
| frereubu wrote:
| This reminds me very much of one of my favourite series on
| Netflix, _Midnight Diner_ (not _Midnight Diner - Tokyo Stories_ ,
| which is a Netflix remake with many of the same cast, but not as
| enjoyable as the original in my opinion). Most of the action
| centres around a group of regulars talking while at a small
| izakaya in Shinjuku, Tokyo, which is run by someone known only as
| "Master" and only opens from midnight to 7am. You see a bit of
| their lives outside, but it always reverts back to the izakaya
| where they debate on various topics. Given the setting, each
| episode feels a bit like a theatre play.
| flobosg wrote:
| The show is based on a manga, by the way:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin%27ya_Shokud%C5%8D
| frereubu wrote:
| TIL - thanks!
| sho_hn wrote:
| I tend to react a bit allergic to the Japan-everything
| fetishizing so prominent on _Hacker News_ (although I 've come
| to realize that it's mostly Americans holding up an example of
| everything they feel they lack domestically, and in that sense
| isn't so much about Japan as it is about America), but perhaps
| it's an interesting data point that at as a grumpy cynic I
| still want to second this recommendation. :)
|
| For one reason or another, the Japanese school of story-telling
| has a pretty prominent streak of this type of low-stakes,
| downtempo "slice of life" premise like this, that I find very
| satisfying. The director Hirokazu Koreeda has made many films
| of this type as well. For a while my wife and I would alternate
| watching Spanish films by Pedro Almodovar and Koreeda on movie
| night, working through both catalogs, which somehow made a lot
| of sense together.
| latexr wrote:
| > Japan-everything fetishizing so prominent on _Hacker News_
|
| It's far from exclusive to Hacker News. In fact, it doesn't
| seem to be that prevalent here, as when it's mentioned it at
| least tends to be in relevant context. Reddit, Tumblr, Imgur,
| and plenty of other communities both on and offline have an
| appreciation for Japanese culture.
|
| > although I've come to realize that it's mostly Americans
| holding up an example of everything they feel they lack
| domestically, and in that sense isn't so much about Japan as
| it is about America
|
| Also not related to America at all. It's just as common in
| Europe and western countries in general. Generation probably
| plays a role. Find anyone who had their mind blown by an
| anime at a formative age, and you'll find someone who to this
| day is likely to have some degree of fascination with Japan.
| sho_hn wrote:
| > Also not related to America at all.
|
| I'm honestly convinced it's a bit more prevalent in
| America, and I've explored this in earnest conversations
| with American friends. I don't mean to villify it either,
| as it makes a certain amount of sense. Their take is
| roughly that Japan is the benchmark case for a sufficiently
| alternative/different culture from an American POV and thus
| invites comparison. As in, yes, you could also cite
| equivalent examples in Europe (say, cozy hole-in-the-wall
| cafes in 200 year old structures with vines hanging off of
| them ...), but since the cultural overlap is much larger
| (or presumed to be), it's less striking. To quote one
| friend, "if you're going to make the comparison, why not go
| for the maximum you can?"
|
| Add the surplus in shared history, the far greater exposure
| to Japanese products (e.g. car brands) inviting more
| interest, and so on.
|
| Sure, you can find manga/anime fand pining for that
| Japanese lifestyle also in Europe, and Europeans are
| _certainly_ no strangers to orientalism through the ages.
| But the incidence of finding "look at how the Japanese are
| doing it differently" in random mainstream media is a _lot_
| higher in US publications. And it 's also largely been US-
| based consulting companies and/or organizations that have
| taken the _hoishin_ and the _kaizen_ and what not global in
| corporate culture and particularly in tech.
| Klonoar wrote:
| It's far from exclusive to HN, but HN is still a prime
| example of it.
|
| There's a ridiculous number of Japan-centric things that
| make it to the front page compared to any other culture.
| Tech has always had a Japan obsession.
| latexr wrote:
| > There's a ridiculous number of Japan-centric things
| that make it to the front page compared to any other
| culture.
|
| But is there a ridiculous number of Japan-centric things
| that make it to the front page compared to any other
| _community_? Are Japan-centric things discussed on HN
| more than Reddit, Tumblr, Imgur? Because that was my
| point; Japan is popular in general, not just popular on
| HN to the point it's even worth singling out.
| Klonoar wrote:
| > But is there a ridiculous number of Japan-centric
| things that make it to the front page compared to any
| other community?
|
| I do not care about other communities. I am discussing HN
| and the tech community herein and the phenomenon that
| occurs with Japan worship here.
| pkkkzip wrote:
| They idealize Japan through fetishized objects. If you
| showed the picture of that same coffee shop in
| Philippines or some south east asian country, nobody in
| the West would care.
|
| But attaching the Japan label suddenly makes it more
| appealing as it invokes many distorted (and misinformed)
| aspects of Japan.
|
| It's the same annoying vibe that Koreans get when they
| come across a foreigner who is into Kpop. Most Koreans do
| not care for Kpop as do most Japanese do not care for
| Anime.
|
| Yet these exports create a parasocial relationship with a
| foreign country that when broken turn them into passive
| aggressive bigots.
|
| The more you covet the harsher the rejection. Japanese
| and Korean society simply has no place for outsiders.
| Having a Japanese passport doesn't make you Japanese as
| it will not change your ancestral history, having your
| gender changed on your drivers license doesn't change the
| biological history and so on.
| sho_hn wrote:
| > They idealize Japan through fetishized objects. If you
| showed the picture of that same coffee shop in
| Philippines or some south east asian country, nobody in
| the West would care.
|
| I think you're mostly right on the money on that, but
| I'll also say it doesn't _have_ to be all fetishization.
| A lot of US Americans legitimately do live in places
| where you don 't have access to cozy nightlife like that
| because it's not what the market provides, and if it's to
| your tastes, I can understand desiring it.
|
| I lived and worked in South Korea for a number of years,
| and I really enjoyed some of the laid-back wine bars and
| whiskey bars there, made for working-age couples and
| small groups in their 20s to lounge around and talk with
| a drink. That kind of atmosphere is very commonly
| available there, but fairly hard to find in Berlin (where
| I live now), where bars more typically are tacky, sticky,
| and play terrible music so loud you have to yell at each
| other. I also miss the late-night coffeeshops a lot,
| where I spent many a night with the laptop doing FOSS
| stuff - your typical Berlin cafe closes no later than
| 7pm. There are exceptions to these rules but the sort of
| places I like are generally a lot harder to find.
|
| Note I e.g. get the same opinion from Catalan friends in
| & about Berlin, who really miss their chill bars and
| street-side places from back home in Barcelona and
| similar. So this is again more of a "I like this foreign
| thing I can't have here as much" than it is about
| _Japan_.
| kelnos wrote:
| > _Also not related to America at all._
|
| I'm not so sure. Or, rather, reasons can differ. I'm not
| into anime at all, but every time I visit Japan (was just
| there in April, after not having visited since 2017), I am
| constantly finding little things and thinking "it's a shame
| we can't have that sort of thing in the US".
|
| I'm generally positive on the concept of government
| regulation, but the US & US state governments tend to over-
| regulate so many things, like zoning and alcohol licensing
| (as mentioned in the article). Culture plays a part too,
| certainly.
| prideout wrote:
| I have never seen a Koreeda film but he sounds compelling --
| which movie would you recommend for a first-timer?
| sho_hn wrote:
| _Shoplifters_ was a recent international success and is
| maybe the most accessible. My favorites of his are _After
| the Storm_ and _Maboroshi_ , though. All of them feature
| wonderful characters and quiet adult moments.
|
| On the arthouse circuit, I think he's best known for _After
| Life_ , which is a bit more challenging (honestly: I found
| it a bit dull) but worth biting into.
|
| Do you know that pang of melancholic joy-and-regret you
| feel after you've had a wonderful day and you know no
| matter how much you and the others involved try, you can
| probably never quite recreate that magic a second time?
| Grateful for the memory you'll always have, yet at the same
| time sad? That's how his movies feel to me, where I'm often
| both happy and sad I've seen them. It's pretty damn great
| when a movie can do that.
| flobosg wrote:
| I can second the _Shoplifters_ recommendation.
| the_af wrote:
| Interesting. I think I've only watched _After Life_ and
| indeed found it very dull (and for the record: I enjoy
| slow-paced Japanese movies with "quiet adult moments").
| I actually thought the premise of the movie wasn't well
| explored at all.
|
| So maybe I would enjoy his other movies, if you liked
| them!
| nereye wrote:
| If you're in the mood for an almost unbearably moving one,
| would recommend _Nobody Knows_.
| ape4 wrote:
| Turntable on a speaker - I thought that was not advised.
| meesles wrote:
| Why though? Because vibrations from a speaker can cause the
| turntable to move and move the arm or cause the needle to move.
|
| In a jazz cafe, I assume the music plays low most of the time
| and so it probably doesn't matter much.
| 2b3a51 wrote:
| Depends how well the turntable is decoupled from its plinth.
| Think in terms of a lumped systems model with a mass on a
| spring being driven by (probably lower frequency) vibrations
| from the speakers.
|
| "Now that I think about it, there was nothing in this shop
| that would tell you it isn't still, say, 1960."
|
| I'd go for 1980s based on the amplifier, turntable and
| speakers. It would be a radiogram, probably valve based, in
| actual 1960s. Nice though.
| buildsjets wrote:
| The motion of the speaker feeds signal back to the
| needle/input device. It matters even more in Jazz/syncopated
| music. The needle tracks with a force of only 1.5 grams or
| so, and any motion is greatly amplified. Also if you listen
| to jazz with the volume low you are doing it wrong. Do you
| link the volume was low in the club when Sun Ra was
| recording?
|
| But besides that, those speakers are placed terribly for
| stereo imaging. Even tucked in the cubby, why place them with
| the drivers together rather than apart? And those speakers
| appear to be dreadful anyway. A single 12" driver in a vented
| / untuned baffle with no midrange or tweeter elements?
|
| So this is definitely set up for aesthetic, not sound
| quality.
| pnut wrote:
| I've got Genelec studio monitors in my kitchen. I care very
| much about sound. I would never set foot in your anechoic,
| soffit mounted cafe blasting jazz at 100dB.
| buildsjets wrote:
| That's a complete, total waste of studio monitors.
| Monitors are for nearfield positioned listening. Sound
| great when you are in the (small) sweet spot, but generic
| and flat off axis, which you will be most of the time in
| a workspace like a kitchen. And a kitchen is a terrible
| place to seriously listen to music, with all of the hard
| tile surfaces and tinny sheet metal appliances
| reverberating. You may care very much about sound, but
| you don't know very much about sound. If you did, and you
| wanted good sound while working in the kitchen, you'd be
| wearing some nice open back headphones, not some fairly
| cheap, very small monitors.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| Feedback
| js2 wrote:
| I'm going to venture to guess the pair of subwoofers cabinets
| on their side are being used as a table and aren't otherwise
| connected. The only amplifier in the photos doesn't have nearly
| enough power to drive them and it appears to be connected to a
| small pair of bookshelf speakers above it.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44358442
|
| (There could be another amplifier somewhere out of view.)
| lubujackson wrote:
| It doesn't feel run down because it isn't run down. No dust in
| the corners, no dents in the wall - this is the difference
| between patina and "old crap": a lifetime of care.
| jamestimmins wrote:
| Thought similarly. It looks very clean, is well lit, the
| decisions look purposeful (no random crap on the shelves), and
| the materials wear well (wood vs e.g. cheap plastic chairs).
| munificent wrote:
| This is a really excellent observation. In addition:
|
| _> It's such a curious, almost uncanny, feeling to enter one
| of these places. The inside feels much bigger and grander than
| the outside._
|
| It makes sense for people to have an innate desire to be in
| places that are, you know, good for people to be in. The most
| obvious way to tell if a place is good for _you_ is if it
| carries evidence that it has historically been good to _other
| people_.
|
| Maybe we have some subsconcious processing that picks up on
| signs of human activity. That means wear and tear, built
| things, modifications. The way humans leave their mark on an
| environment when they spent time on it. All of that spent time
| is like accumulated votes that "yup, this is a good human
| place."
|
| At the same time, we don't want to find ourselves hanging out
| in a dumping ground, slag heap, or other environment that
| humans have left their mark in by _expoiting_ it. That 's not a
| good place to be, because it's not just used, it's used _up_.
| So what we want to look for is not just signs of human activity
| (which a landfill has in spades), but a certain kind of
| _caring_ activity. Marks in the space that seem to have been
| done to leave it _more_ appealing to be in.
|
| I think that's what the author is picking up on here. These
| tiny, aged spaces have a deep accumulation of _caring
| attention_. They feel bigger than they are because we pick up
| on that huge information density of all of the past people that
| have left their mark on a place. The place isn 't large
| spatially, but it's large _in time_.
|
| It's the exact opposite of how walking into a giant mall or
| corporate office can still feel claustrophobic because there's
| nothing--no _things_ --there, no sense of history or connection
| to any lived experience.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| It's also large _in usability_. That 's hard to do with a
| small space; you have to think different. To think like that,
| you first need to _live_ in a small space, and organically
| develop solutions around it.
|
| Now, you could do that with any space, like a machine shop.
| But the "good human place"-ness of the shop will depend on
| the forces that shape that shop. If all the forces are purely
| commercial, you're going to end up with something that works
| commercially, but might not be so human-friendly. I think the
| disconnect between bland American commercial spaces and more
| intimate Japanese ones is the relationship of the owner-
| proprietor to commercialism.
|
| In the US, I have been in a few cafes where I had to step
| back outside to check if I had accidentally walked into
| someone's living room. Same for hostels; the best ones feel
| like you're in someone's home. Their layout was not driven by
| commercial interest, but by a person just wanting to feel
| cozy. The space _is_ them.
|
| Whereas a Starbucks isn't a person, it's a chemical factory.
| If the music is too loud, it doesn't matter if I complain;
| the factory workers (supposedly) can't control the music. If
| the air is too cold, it doesn't matter if I'm shivering; the
| factory workers are paid to make coffee, not care about my
| discomfort. Our human connection to the space is irrelevant
| to the manufacturing and selling of chemical stimulants.
| wrp wrote:
| > _this obviously aging little structure doesn't feel ugly or
| rundown._
|
| That made me cringe a bit. The whole look of the place is
| deliberate. I mean, somebody put in a lot of effort to make it
| look just that way. Notice how every inch of it is spotless and
| nothing could be said to be out of place.
| anon-3988 wrote:
| Man, I know it is a meme but Japan simply have mastered
| "aesthetics". It is especially incredible given that they
| achieved this in an urban area.
|
| For example, consider the vines that are growing on that shed. Is
| that dirty? Should we clean them to get a pristine shed? Yes, you
| have to sweep the floor everyday to clean the dust, but should
| you cut down that small plant growing between the cracks of your
| building? Or the vines overtaking the roof? I think if you
| answers no to this, then you understand that sense of aesthetics.
|
| For some people tho, they think its a bad thing (1), which I
| simply don't understand? I don't understand how people can
| willingly spend every couple of hours every week to trim their
| lawn to a pristine, perfect cube of grass. Is this beautiful? I
| think not. In my apartment, I have trees growing from the cracks
| of the building, and I think that's beautiful.
|
| I don't know how they do it, it is not simply just being clean. I
| think parts of it is "allowing nature to take its course" which
| gives a typical structure depth and age.
|
| 1.
| https://www.reddit.com/r/landscaping/comments/vs1n0n/help_wh...
| TechDebtDevin wrote:
| I've never been to Japan, but lived in Norway for a couple
| years and I always felt like they had mastered western
| "aesthetics". Norwegians seemed to really appreciate
| Japanese/zen styles as well. One thing I always found
| interesting is most homes in Norway will have fresh flowers,
| despite living in a climate not conducive to that at all.
|
| They have this word called koselig that we don't have in
| English that means cozy plus a lot more things, and these
| Japanese coffee shops really do embody that word.
| Swoerd wrote:
| We have a word for that: Japandi. "Japandi is an interior
| design and architecture style that blends Japanese minimalism
| with Scandinavian functionality."
| SoftTalker wrote:
| It's all of Scandinavia really. Denmark is the same, probably
| Sweden also (though I have not been there).
| latexr wrote:
| > Is that dirty?
|
| That's not what you should be worrying about.
|
| > I have trees growing from the cracks of the building, and I
| think that's beautiful.
|
| It probably _is_ beautiful. It may also be inconvenient or
| outright dangerous. As the trees continue to grow and expand
| the cracks, the building's structure becomes ever more
| compromised. Maybe the cracks will expand and more rain will
| come in, causing mold and making your home less effective at
| keeping its temperature. Or maybe they'll expand in a way that
| a whole wall will fall off.
|
| Seeing plants sprouting from the ground in cities is fun and
| aesthetically pleasing, I agree. But it is not always safe to
| let them keep growing.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| > the building's structure becomes ever more compromised
|
| on what timescale though? and in an invisible way?
|
| I believe buildings are seen as more temporary in japan than
| in the west; maybe point at which the damage is excessive
| would outlive the building?
| latexr wrote:
| > on what timescale though?
|
| Short enough to kill you or your direct descendants. These
| things can look fine for years and then collapse in one
| day.
|
| > and in an invisible way?
|
| Makes no difference how visible it is if you don't
| understand the risk and do nothing until something happens.
| And the longer you wait, the harder it will be to remedy.
|
| > I believe buildings are seen as more temporary in japan
| than in the west
|
| I'm not talking about Japan, I'm addressing the general
| point.
| potatolicious wrote:
| > _" on what timescale though?"_
|
| Depends on how extensive the growth is and how structurally
| stable the thing is in the first place. But expect major
| problems on the decades-timescale.
|
| > _" and in an invisible way?"_
|
| Yes. This is the main problem with allowing unconstrained
| plant growth near/in/under structures - the degree of
| structural compromise is hard to assess (especially without
| spending a lot of $$$), and failure can be sudden. You're
| not gonna get as much warning as you'd want.
|
| In the US it's a popular look to have vines growing against
| brick walls. They're beautiful but often hazardous for
| structural safety, especially if not proactively maintained
| and constantly monitored (which is $$$!)
|
| [edit] I think overall the focus on the "pleasantly
| ramshackle" aesthetics of the shack misses the forest for
| the trees. There's a lot of daylight between "permit small
| businesses in possibly unsafe structures" and "western
| status quo norms for business licensure".
|
| I think something Japan gets done _really_ well is making
| it easy and inexpensive to run businesses, especially hobby
| businesses. There are a _ton_ of policies that encourage
| this outcome, and we can and should adopt entire rafts of
| them without changing existing regs about the physical
| structural stability of said businesses ;)
| appreciatorBus wrote:
| It's a 1 storey building. Even if the vine means it will only
| last 50 years instead of 100 years, the risks are low and the
| cost to replace is low.
|
| If we were talking about public infra where thousands will
| die if a structure fails prematurely, then sure, let's be
| careful about vines. But if a private land owner wishes to
| grow vines (or allow vines to grow) on their private
| building, I think it's fine.
| latexr wrote:
| > It's a 1 storey building.
|
| I'm not talking about the building in the article, or even
| Japan specifically, but addressing the general point of
| trees and other growths which cause literal cracks and
| compromise structural integrity.
|
| > If we were talking about public infra where thousands
| will die if a structure fails prematurely
|
| That is exactly what I'm talking about. Well, maybe not
| thousands, even a four story building with a compromised
| structure can lead to unnecessary deaths.
| mlhpdx wrote:
| > I'm not talking about the building in the article, or
| even Japan specifically, but addressing the general point
| of trees and other growths which cause literal cracks and
| compromise structural integrity.
|
| Structural integrity or uniformity (or some other
| qualitative)? Yes, occasionally there is an actual
| structural problem (MSME here) but far, far more often
| things are torn down or discarded when a slight repair
| would suffice (other than the preference).
| card_zero wrote:
| This shouldn't really matter, but it matters to insurance. So
| landlords cut down trees.
| thfuran wrote:
| > I don't understand how people can willingly spend every
| couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine,
| perfect cube of grass.
|
| I once went out of town for two weeks figuring much the same
| and came back to a freshly cut lawn and a five-day-old notice
| from the town posted at my door stating that I had three days
| to trim the lawn or they'd do it for $300.
| RankingMember wrote:
| The western obsession with lawns is well past due for a
| paradigm shift.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| If it takes a couple of hours you're obsessing. I cut my
| quarter-acre suburban lawn in about 45 minutes, with a cheap
| push mower.
| kelnos wrote:
| The time it takes to mow your lawn depends mostly on the
| size of your property. When I was a teenager up we had a
| little under 3 acres of grass that needed to be mowed. Even
| with a small non-commercial tractor-style riding mower, it
| took several hours to do.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Oh of course. But in a town that's rather unusually
| large. When I think of a place where anyone would
| complain about the grass not being cut for two weeks,
| it's in some kind of little townhome neighborhood with a
| really uptight HOA board.
| hn14442 wrote:
| Yes, the vine being planted ( or let to grow ) is a deliberate
| choice :). It's not unique to Japan thou.
|
| > I don't understand how people can willingly spend every
| couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine,
| perfect cube of grass.
|
| The funny thing is that you will fine plenty of Western-style
| gardens in Japan too: perfectly trimmed, symmetrical, sometime
| even next to Japanese garden. Japanese aristocrats quite love
| this back in the day.
| anon-3988 wrote:
| > The funny thing is that you will fine plenty of Western-
| style gardens in Japan too: perfectly trimmed, symmetrical,
| sometime even next to Japanese garden. Japanese aristocrats
| quite love this back in the day.
|
| And I dont think that part of Japan is pretty when I visited
| it. I understand that its not all perfect, of course.
| hn14442 wrote:
| You don't think it's pretty or you just find in
| uninteresting because it similar to what you already have
| back home ?
|
| Both are very beautiful to me, because I haven never seen
| either of them.
| Chris2048 wrote:
| > Is that dirty? Should we clean them to get a pristine shed?
|
| What do you mean? Are trees dirty?
| anon-3988 wrote:
| Dirty as in it is something to be dealt with.
| hapara2024 wrote:
| There is "no nature taking its course" here. Japanese garden
| also require good deal of trimming, it's just that the style is
| difference :)
| 2cynykyl wrote:
| So true. I once saw a gardener removing weeds from a moss
| patch with tweezers. Very meticulous.
| buildsjets wrote:
| Oooooh so that's how to deal with the grass sprouts in my
| Irish Moss.
| testfrequency wrote:
| Have you never been to Los Angeles?
| enaaem wrote:
| Pristine lawns were originally a status symbol thing. You would
| show off how much land and resources you could waste.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| It's a cultural thing called wabi-sabi
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi-sabi
| 1024core wrote:
| I remember roaming around the back alleys of Tokyo, as I'm wont
| to do to get a true feel for any place I'm visiting, and came
| across bicycles parked on sidewalks, covered with vines. Those
| bikes must've been there for several years.
|
| Coming from SF, a couple of thoughts came to mind: first: wow
| these bikes have been sitting here for a long time. And second:
| this must be a _really_ safe place, because in SF, a bike
| parked outside won't last a day or two.
|
| Funny thing is: the area didn't look rundown or anything. It
| was clean and well maintained. Except for the bikes in vines.
| mlhpdx wrote:
| Regarding plants, my English influenced yard in the US contains
| no "tortured little trees"[1], but is also intentional and
| beautiful. Investing in beauty without ego is difficult and
| unusual but not exceptional.
|
| [1] The Essential Pruning Companion by John Malins
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > I don't understand how people can willingly spend every
| couple of hours every week to trim their lawn to a pristine,
| perfect cube of grass.
|
| I do ours because our lawn is 70% tumbleweeds (kochia) and
| cutting it before any of it can go to seed increases the chance
| that one day it will be only 30% kochia.
| criddell wrote:
| How was the WiFi?
| low_tech_punk wrote:
| Probably faster than Starbucks in the US
| MarkusWandel wrote:
| What's also magical is that businesses like that _can_ exist
| without being run aground by bureaucracy. In my city it is nearly
| impossible to even get a permit for a mobile food stand.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Beautiful. I think a lot of what makes Japan wonderful in this
| respect is:
|
| * Poor economic mobility
|
| * Individual compliance with the social contract
|
| * Liberty to run small businesses
|
| * Good land use laws
|
| Perfect mobility is awful because all the capable people get to
| maximize earnings. The better The Sort (as patio11 calls it) the
| more capable people move out of doing things with high positive
| externalities.
| spongebobstoes wrote:
| romanticizing poverty is a privilege that the poor don't have
| renewiltord wrote:
| I'm not romanticizing it. I'm saying that it's optimal for me
| that lots of smart conscientious people get limited job
| opportunities because then they will do small things to
| excellence rather than pursue personal gain. This is good for
| me because I get to experience the results of these. The guy
| who would be a great engineer, quant, or business leader will
| end up making rice wine and so I get great rice wine. I don't
| want to be limited like that, though. I want to be sorted
| into my zone of excellence and then enjoy the positive
| externalities from the smart and unfairly limited.
| hapara2024 wrote:
| what kind of conclusion are we drawing from a 2 minutes clip of
| a cafe here ?
| renewiltord wrote:
| I am using the conversation about a cafe to discuss something
| that I've known for three decades. This is often the case
| with people. My father can diagnose a bone and joint injury
| in minutes and often he can guess at history. "What kind of
| conclusion are you drawing from five minutes of palpation?"
|
| Not five minutes. Fifty years and five minutes.
| ergsef wrote:
| Who are "capable" people? Do you think if the cafe owner was
| born in the US they would be working at Google?
|
| Lots of people in North America work in jobs with positive
| externalities (teachers, nurses, etc) and they're generally
| treated like shit compared to 9-5 office workers. I don't think
| the issue is that the former is group is less capable, they're
| just not sociopathic resource-collecting robots.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| > Poor economic mobility
|
| Maybe you mean poor job mobility for office work. Economic
| mobility as a whole is high enough for whole towns and villages
| to become desolate as former residents decamp for the cities.
| boogieknite wrote:
| during our visit to Kyoto last year we noticed dozens of unmarked
| restaurants/bars while walking to our hotel at night. we saw
| packed bars through the blinds of houses indistinguishable from
| any other around them. we wondered if maybe they are coop bars or
| something? we never intruded because all were unmarked and at
| capacity
|
| mostly forgot about it until reading this article because there
| is a lot to take in while visiting Japan from the US
| timr wrote:
| There are "unmarked", membership-only places, but most likely
| you just didn't see or understand the sign.
|
| Many restaurants and bars are small mom-and-pop places that
| gain clientele through neighborhood word-of-mouth, and don't
| invest in advertising.
| rockostrich wrote:
| As someone who loves coffee as well as the culture around locally
| owned coffee shops, visiting Tokyo (and to a lesser extent Seoul)
| this past April was like a dream come true.
|
| When my partner and I travel, we don't do a ton of planning for
| specifics so if we're in a big city we'll usually pick a
| neighborhood or 2 for the day and bebop around until we're tired.
| The start to any day is almost always finding a coffee shop and
| doing the crossword during our first cup. In Europe depending on
| the city this can be difficult because a lot of coffee shops just
| pump out overextracted espresso and then give the option to add
| water for an americano. There's still tons of amazing cafes in
| the European cities I've visited. Some really memorable ones are
| Cafe Tacuba in Lucerne, Faro in Rome, and Monks Coffee Roasters.
| in Amsterdam.
|
| In Tokyo, we actually started off with a pretty mediocre coffee
| because nothing opened before 10 besides a cafe chain, but after
| we got adjusted we couldn't stop finding great spots. The first
| day we were going to the national museum and found AOYAMA COFFEE
| ROASTER in Yanaka. At first the owner was a bit standoffish
| because we were 2 Americans coming in at the very beginning of
| the day and I assume she has a lot of bad experiences with
| tourists, but we started talking after she noticed my
| portafilter/coffee plant tattoo and had a really great time. For
| the rest of the week, we walked into shop after shop that had at
| most 4 or 5 seats with one barista making drinks and each one
| felt special.
|
| The one that connected me most to this post was the one from our
| day in Sumida City when we were going to a bunch of small museums
| (highly recommend the Hokusai museum). We stopped into CHILL OUT
| COFFEE &...RECORDS and it was one of the coziest coffee
| experiences I've ever had. The shop is a coffee bar with a couch
| and a couple of chairs. I forget what kind of cup I had but I
| remember it being just a really balanced cup with a little bit of
| berry and chocolate notes. I wish we could've stayed longer but
| after about 15 minutes a family of tourists with 2 toddlers came
| in and we figured it was time to go after we finished our drinks.
|
| In Seoul, the shops we visited were all a lot bigger but one
| thing I couldn't help noticing was that all of the baristas were
| so deliberate in their movements. This is something that was
| probably true of folks in shops in general in Tokyo and Seoul,
| but I noticed it with baristas because I tend to think about it a
| lot when I'm making drinks at home. You could show me a
| silhouette of baristas making drinks in Tokyo and some western
| city and it would be night and day. I feel like that goes a long
| way in illustrating the differences between eastern and western
| culture even though we're all making and enjoying the same hot
| bean water.
| timr wrote:
| Hah, hilarious. I used to live not far from this place. [1]
|
| I don't know the story behind the structure, but it was a re-
| purposed storage shed [2] that someone was either subletting or
| owned outright. Probably the former -- the area is _not_ remote,
| and is surrounded by new housing. Most likely is that some
| landowner is making a little bit of cash by renting out the
| space, and the business owner is exploiting the niche of having a
| cheap property so near to Nijo castle (a tourist black zone in
| Kyoto).
|
| Setting aside the aesthetics, the most "Japan" thing about this
| is that it's possible _at all_ to get a license to run a food
| establishment, electricity service, etc. in such a marginal
| space. It would never be allowed in the US.
|
| Secondarily, leaseholder rights in Japan are pretty different
| than in other parts of the world. It's fairly common, even in
| major cities, to find underdeveloped, tiny little plots of land
| where there's a lessee who has a ~perpetual right to the space,
| independent of the "owner". Landowners will buy and sell the
| underlying rights to the rental cashflow, almost like a long-term
| bond, with no hope for redevelopment, and the lessee _can
| independently sell the rental rights_ [3]. Again, I don 't know
| if that's what is going on here, but it wouldn't surprise me.
| These kind of situations make it feasible for a business owner to
| invest in creating a business in what is essentially a potting
| shed -- one of the major risks would be that no one _rationally_
| would want to keep that old building in place in an area of Kyoto
| that could be more fully developed. But as you can see, this
| building is completely surrounded by new construction, and has
| been for many years.
|
| [1] It's here: https://maps.app.goo.gl/3KtWnTAkmatMqN9b6
|
| [2] I could be wrong about this part. The roof is tiled, which is
| pretty fancy for a shed. My recollection was that it was far too
| small to ever have been a house, but it's possible that it was
| originally a section of a larger machiya, which would make sense
| for the area and the geometry of the lot.
|
| [3] This is sort of like mineral rights or air rights in the US.
| It's not a totally foreign concept to us, we just don't do it for
| houses or...shacks.
|
| This streetview gives a better perspective on exactly what is
| around it -- you have new development in front and behind, and
| the area immediately to the front of the shop is a dedicated
| parking area for a nearby business. I suspect that the shop and
| the parking area are part of the same parcel, owned by the
| business.
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@35.0112669,135.7504895,3a,89.9y...
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| Biggest thing I miss from Osaka is the vinyl record izakaya that
| I frequented (I do not remember the name but there are a bunch in
| the area). Just a little hole in the wall where the
| owner/baretender/chef/dj would spin whatever the heck he wanted.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| Not the same place, but definitely the same vibe:
|
| https://archive.thevinylfactory.com/features/kankodori-karao...
| dataviz1000 wrote:
| I entered a jazz izakaya in Kanazawa with only two stools and no
| room for anyone else. There was an old man on one stool and a
| bartender in his 70s or 80s. It is rude to tip and they will not
| except it but offering to buy a drink for the bartender is
| encouraged. I ordered a Japanese whiskey and offered the old man
| and bartender one. There were piles of knickknacks and maybe
| $15,000 worth of stereo equipment including a record player,
| planar magnetic speakers and a vacuum tube amplifier in this
| little room. I heard the distinctive sound of Sonny Rollins
| saxophone and used the translation app to say I saw Sonny Rollins
| play live at the Monterey Jazz Festival and he played an encore
| of La Cucaracha for close to two hours where his band eventually
| left the stage and he kept playing and playing. The bartender
| pulled out a Sonny Rollins record from his stack of vinyl and put
| it on the record player. The three of us sat there for 40 minutes
| not saying a word listening.
|
| If you are in Kyoto, I recommend a similar style bar called Brown
| Sugar. They tend to have these types of names, for example, in
| Sapporo there is one called Jim Crow. [0] However, if in Sapporo,
| I recommend the half note. [1] Most bars and restaurants for that
| matter will not serve me because I do not speak Japanese, so they
| say. If I wanted a drink I would stick to Karaoke and jazz bars.
| I made some friends in Kyoto who were finishing their 4th year
| studying engineering at University of Kyoto who were from Africa
| -- these kids are African royalty. They spoke perfect fluent
| Japanese and they couldn't get access into bars that would let me
| in. So the names are fitting and likely they know exactly what
| they mean.
|
| [0] https://www.google.com/search?q=sapporo+japan+bar+jim+crow
|
| [1]
| https://www.google.com/search?q=sapporo+japan+piano+ba+half+...
| criddell wrote:
| I recently heard Craig Mod[1] in an interview. He has walked
| thousands of miles in Japan and has produced books that
| document some of what he has seen. The photographs he has
| published online are beautiful, but I've never seen any of his
| books so I can't comment on those.
|
| Anyway, in the interview, he talked about places that sound
| like what you are describing in the first paragraph but he
| called them _kissa_ s.
|
| [1]:https://craigmod.com/
| dataviz1000 wrote:
| Oh, my. I'm scratching my head wondering how this is the
| first time I have ever heard the word kissas. [0]
|
| [0] https://xkcd.com/1053/
| csa wrote:
| I'm fairly certain that it's a shortened version of Chi Cha
| Dian ( _kissaten_ ).
| joseda-hg wrote:
| I was aware of Manga Kissas[0], which are a bit more famous
| in general, I assummed it was a generic extension of the
| term
|
| [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manga_cafe
| csa wrote:
| For reference, I'm fairly certain that _kissa_ a shortened
| version of Chi Cha Dian ( _kissaten_ ).
|
| That said, I'm guessing the "jazz izakaya" that gp mentioned
| would probably just be called a bar or izakaya, possibly with
| a thematic adjective added.
| joshvm wrote:
| On kissaten - Dian _ten_ is the kanji for "store", though
| you might also learn Wu ( _ya_ , lit. roof). _kissa_ means
| consume tea (Chi Cha ), more or less. I didn 't notice them
| on my first visit, I wasn't into coffee then, but they're
| everywhere and a really nice way to get breakfast (egg toast
| + siphon filter for a few hundred yen). Not necessarily the
| best coffee in Japan if you don't like dark roast, but it's
| often made to order and not out of an urn.
|
| Izakaya I would associate more with drinking and small plates
| of food, but not necessarily a catch-all for bars.
| kemiller wrote:
| YMMV I guess, but I found the best coffee at kissatens, and
| I hate dark roasts. Lots of great, sometimes super tiny,
| third-wave pourover types, too. But I guess Japanese coffee
| culture is more about evening consumption since there were
| many that were open at 10PM or later, but very few open
| before 10AM.
| agcat wrote:
| I am bookmarking this for my visit! :D
| ryantando wrote:
| Blog post like this made me back to 2010 lol
| shermantanktop wrote:
| Jazz--classic jazz, not Kenny G- is common in urban Japan. Very
| common to hear Miles Davis or Dave Brubeck in a restaurant,
| coffee shop, etc.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| These small cafes/bars are called _kissa_ (kee-sah). Unlike a
| regular cafe, the _kissa_ is designed to create an atmosphere
| allowing for a quiet appreciation of the music while drinks are
| served as an accompaniment.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_kissa
|
| For the interested, Chris Broad (Abroad in Japan) interviewed the
| owner of such an establishment (Basie) located in Ichinoseki:
| https://youtube.com/watch?v=1-9RMSbl_Uo
|
| > (There's one that's chock-full of Star Wars memorabilia, for
| example.)
|
| I'd definitely like to know where this one is.
| altairprime wrote:
| Nijo Koya, at 382-3 Mogamicho, Nakagyo-ku, Kyoto.
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| That's the subject of the article. Not the _other_ place with
| Star Wars memorabilia the author parenthetically referred to.
| altairprime wrote:
| Welp, better one than neither, anyways!
| Dracophoenix wrote:
| Thank you anyways.
| fennecbutt wrote:
| Chris Broad is an inspiration.
| fitsumbelay wrote:
| This ROCKS
|
| Wabi-sabi spaces are awesome regardless where in the world they
| are. Portals? Even better. Awesome post.
| carabiner wrote:
| I went to a cafe in Niseko that looked straight out of a ghibli
| movie. Stacks of older records in the corner, pothos vines draped
| over window sills. If you know Niseko, you know this is not the
| vibe at all since the whole town is mostly Australians (who are
| louder and more boisterous than Americans). I went in there and
| it was only a few Asian tourists. So peaceful. Then one American
| came in, and the entire vibe shifted for the worse as he tried
| talking over me and shouting across the room to the other table.
| Sigh.
| nomilk wrote:
| > on the vibrant business and street culture in Japanese cities
| and the seemingly very, very low barriers to entry for regular
| people to participate.
|
| An astute observation that allowing markets to operate without
| onerous licensing schemes and regulations often has wonderful
| upsides, allowing quirky and niche interests to survive and even
| flourish.
|
| A similar situation was true of Melbourne's small bar scene vs
| Sydney's. Sydney's more expensive/onerous licensing requirements
| were prohibitive for tiny bars. Whereas Melbourne's licensing was
| more permissive and less expensive, resulting in an abundance of
| quirky and interesting venues. Possibly my favourite example was
| a tiny indy video game bar (it shut down during covid, I think).
| https://barsk.com.au/skgames/?p=done
| morleytj wrote:
| A similar situation in the US can be seen in Boston.
| Historically terrible nightlife and for easily explained
| reasons. Liquor licenses are distributed by the state at a
| capped amount that can potentially be increased each year,
| meaning the majority of new businesses wanting to have alcohol
| sales will need to purchase an existing liquor license from
| another business, often at an exorbitant price (over 500k USD
| on average I believe)
|
| This makes it extremely difficult for any new businesses to
| start, and massively advantages large chain businesses that
| have the ability to make the initial investment in securing a
| license, versus small or quirky businesses which just have no
| chance getting started.
| xyzhut wrote:
| This makes so much sense to me. I've always thought Boston's
| nightlife was terrible when compared to places in Texas. You
| go to Austin and there are the most random bars, clubs, and
| restaurants. Most have their own quirks and personality,
| making it so no one place is exactly like the other.
| charcircuit wrote:
| Why do you need a liquor license for nightlife. There is more
| to life than just drinking alcohol.
| fragmede wrote:
| Because the economics of it are such that there's where you
| get your money. How much cover charge are you willing to
| pay to go out to a club playing local talent on a random
| weeknight? A cover charge that would actually cover costs
| at a venue with no bar would be exorbitantly expensive.
| This is why many places with cheap cover have a drink
| minimum.
| smelendez wrote:
| Yeah, this is actually a problem for venues now that
| younger generations drink less alcohol.
|
| People will drink a beer every set in a show, but they're
| less likely to do that with coffee, soda, THC drink, or
| any other beverage except water, which most bar venues
| offer for free.
| charcircuit wrote:
| You can sell other drinks, food, entertainment, services
| games, etc. Alcohol isn't the only thing people are able
| to do at night. There are plenty of activities that are
| possible.
| morleytj wrote:
| Businesses that sell alcohol make a lot of money,
| businesses that don't tend to go out of business.
|
| Wish it weren't so (I don't drink alcohol, personally), but
| that's the economics of it.
| charcircuit wrote:
| Sure, and offering gambling is another good way to make a
| lot of money. Yet, we don't see every business offer
| gambling to its patrons.
| astrange wrote:
| Because you can't drink caffeine at night and we don't have
| any competing depressants.
| 0xfaded wrote:
| Looks like https://maps.app.goo.gl/sa5JdGPMoZKiUiUP7 in Osaka
| is still going, though I remembered it being called "spacebar",
| a fantastic male for a retro gaming bar.
| lwansbrough wrote:
| North Americans: the city planners are ruining your life in
| ways you didn't even know could exist.
| kurthr wrote:
| I'm all for reducing permit requirements, but realisitically
| these would be used by McDo and Starbux to externalize more
| costs while increasing their quarterly profit. Really, you
| need to have something that is trusted and rational without
| corporate corruption, which Japan nominally is. The US is
| going the opposite direction from that.
| mikem170 wrote:
| It's my understanding that houses in Japan are zoned to
| allow a percentage of the space to be used for a low-impact
| business, like the coffee shop in the article, and that
| bigger businesses are allowed on the bigger roads and in
| dedicated commercial/industrial districts. Also most houses
| can be converted to triplexes, too. This helps with
| density, encouraging more businesses nearby, less need for
| cars, better quality of social life, etc.
|
| I see what you mean about the potential for abuse - maybe
| Big Money would buy all the houses and run small businesses
| from them? But regulations or taxes could be used to
| dissuade them. Theoretically, anyways.
|
| I wondered if Japan does anything along those lines to
| avoid the problems you mentioned, but google ain't what it
| used to be and I wasn't able to find specifics.
| davidw wrote:
| It's kind of the other way around: McDonalds will find a
| way to operate in pretty much any kind of environment. They
| have the deep pockets and knowledge to do so. They have
| restaurants across the world, including in very tricky
| places like Venice, Italy.
|
| It's the small, local guy who with low margins who is not
| going to thrive in an environment where it's very difficult
| to get past all the hurdles to even start up.
| astrange wrote:
| Japan has both McDonalds and Starbucks. Also, McDonalds is
| a franchise so "they" are not making most of the decisions
| here.
|
| (Btw, I like US McDonalds better than Japan's, but maybe
| I'm the only one that thinks this.)
| hbarka wrote:
| American city planners influenced the construction of an
| elevated highway through the middle of Seoul in South Korea.
| Years later, that monstrosity was demolished.
| https://youtu.be/wqGxqxePihE
| b0a04gl wrote:
| read it twice. woww it linked a casual cafe moment to local
| policy and space constraints without making a big bluff out of
| it. op tells you both what to think and also leaves enough there
| to connect your own dots, writing is awesome
| kazinator wrote:
| I went to such a small pasta restaurant somewhere in the Gunma
| Prefecture's countryside. Record player, vacuum tube amplifier,
| jazz.
|
| I'm down the rabbit hole of trying to find it now. Searching, in
| Japanese, for restaurants specifically in the Gunma country side
| that feature jazz, I found instead something else: "Cafe Front
| Load":
|
| https://blog.goo.ne.jp/azuminojv/e/bbfb2695ee73ee9c27c2e4ba6...
|
| Not the same one. But there is a record player with jazz.
|
| The amp is not tube, but it is exotic for the purpose: a Yamaha
| PC2002M PA thing that requires 3U racks space.
|
| These jazz vinyl -> record player -> exotic amp -> speakers type
| restaurants seem to be like mushrooms under the rain in Japan or
| something?
|
| It may be like trying to find a replacement record needle in a
| haystack.
| bravesoul2 wrote:
| Love it. I would have loved to stumble across that on my trip. I
| also googled for coffee but the only place open early enough near
| me was 7-11. Most seem to open ar 12pm for some reason. I was
| slightly out of downtown to the north. But had a similar
| experience with a restaurant. It didn't look like this and was
| more conventional but it did feel like we were guests at
| someone's home rather than a restaurant and the food was
| fantastic. It felt different to the normal! I've had that
| experience in London too but it is very uncommon there. I think
| the true quirk exists in every city but you have to hunt it down
| more in western cities.
| davidcelis wrote:
| Craft coffee is a luxury item that isn't part of Japanese
| culture in the same way that it is in the west. In the early
| morning, when you're a salaryman trying to get to work as fast
| as possible, you get coffee from a vending machine or
| convenience store. Craft coffee is something to enjoy
| leisurely, which is why most specialty coffee shops don't open
| until much later than we're used to
| bravesoul2 wrote:
| Thanks. I guessed that. I got downvoted so I assume people
| think I am complaining. I am not. Just observing and curious
| as to why they open later I assume there are different
| rituals and I never found out. Thanks for replying!
| mtalantikite wrote:
| > I suppose, religion aside, that that feeling is wonder. That is
| not a feeling I often feel running errands and going out in
| America. But it's a feeling that the Japanese business landscape
| and built environment is able to spark frequently.
|
| On our Friday stand-ups we generally chat for a few minutes about
| what we're up to for the weekend, and my update is usually
| something along the lines of "I'm going to go outside and let New
| York happen to me". I'm feeling that wonder less and less here in
| the city as all the quirky, niche things have been driven out due
| to rent increases and are being replaced by their private equity
| owned, multi-national versions. But the ability of the city to
| spark wonder certainly exists in our environment here more than
| in most in the US since we navigate by foot and not typically by
| car.
|
| I'd prefer optimizing for wonder than most other things.
|
| Edit: Actually there used to be a Japanese cafe in my
| neighborhood called "House of Small Wonder", which was attached
| to an omakase spot. They had a big tree growing out of the middle
| of it, going up out the roof, with space for maybe 15 or less.
| It's now a Glossier makeup store.
| chem83 wrote:
| Nice, I was there last month! Found it completely by accident.
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