[HN Gopher] Cataphract: Medieval-fantasy roleplaying wargame, in...
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       Cataphract: Medieval-fantasy roleplaying wargame, in the Black-Sea
       C. 1300
        
       Author : vidro3
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2025-06-19 17:40 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (samsorensen.blot.im)
 (TXT) w3m dump (samsorensen.blot.im)
        
       | reactordev wrote:
       | Was totally interested until I read its play-by-post and he keeps
       | track of all the troop movements and results. Not exactly what I
       | had pictured in my head before I clicked the link. I don't
       | understand how people have the time to play things by mail in
       | realtime. I want an evening escape, not a lifetime achievement.
        
         | Xelbair wrote:
         | you're unable to comprehend why people have a long-term
         | hobbies?
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | > I don't understand how people have the time to play things by
         | mail in realtime
         | 
         | It's not via mail, it's via discord; there are more details in
         | the submission:
         | 
         | "I set up a channel on a reasonably-popular RPG discord server
         | I'm on, then each commander gets their own thread, using
         | discord's thread feature. Each commander then gets a little doc
         | with their character writeup and a sheet with their army
         | numbers. They write messages to me, I reply and notify them as
         | events occur, and I keep track of everything on a big
         | spreadsheet and a running Photoshop map file. (...)"
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | Also note that in early wargames writing down orders was part
         | of the game, e.g.:
         | 
         | "Players do not speak to each other. Instead, they communicate
         | with their teammates and the umpire through written messages.
         | This is so that the enemy team cannot hear their plans. This is
         | also so that the umpire can delay or block messages if he feels
         | the circumstances on the battlefield warrant it. In the early
         | 19th century, officers in the field communicated over long
         | distances through messengers. There was no radio in those days.
         | Messengers needed time to reach the recipient, and could be
         | delayed or intercepted by the enemy. The umpire can simulate
         | this problem by holding on to a player's message for a round or
         | two before giving it to the recipient, never giving it, or even
         | give it to the enemy."
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsspiel
        
         | nottorp wrote:
         | > I want an evening escape
         | 
         | That would be giving orders for one turn. Why the rush?
         | 
         | > not a lifetime achievement.
         | 
         | That would be those free to play clickers.
        
         | IncreasePosts wrote:
         | Just get 20 hobbies like that to fill up each evening.
        
         | lupusreal wrote:
         | Back in the day my buddies and I used to play Civilization 2 by
         | swapping a floppy with the save file back and forth every day
         | we met in school.
        
         | deadbabe wrote:
         | I actually got excited thinking it was play by mail but it was
         | not. I was picturing weathered wax sealed letters arriving to
         | your mailbox, written in an old school font, detailing outcomes
         | of your decisions and how you wanted to proceed.
        
       | GolfPopper wrote:
       | The A Collection of Unusual Pedantry blog which the author
       | references is an amazing introduction to this work of thinking
       | (the challenges of military operations, and the forces that shape
       | warfare and civilization). [1] If you're already familiar with
       | ACoUP, or find Cataphracts fascinating, you might also enjoy
       | Edward N. Luttwak's _The Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire_
       | of which one review says (and which I find a quality summary):
       | "The Grand Strategy of the Byzantine Empire is written with a
       | profound knowledge of the field, a thorough mastery of the
       | sources and secondary literature, and a lively and engaging style
       | that both specialists and general readers will appreciate."
       | --Peter B. Golden, Rutgers University
       | 
       | 1. https://acoup.blog/
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | He writes about games from time to time. You can sense the
         | friendly frustration. I wish he'd take a sabbatical from
         | Professor-ing and, like, Creative Assembly could hire him to
         | consult on a total war game.
        
           | Maken wrote:
           | He himself seems more interested in Paradox games. I wonder
           | what he will think about EUV.
        
           | GolfPopper wrote:
           | He also has a great collection of his posts that are
           | particularly useful for aspiring authors and rpg game
           | masters:
           | 
           | https://acoup.blog/resources-for-world-builders/
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | There is only so much realism you can inject before it
           | detracts from the fun. The author occasionally even
           | references this during his analysis on how some mechanic
           | would be required for simplicity or balancing a rock-paper-
           | scissors troop counters.
        
       | lovegrenoble wrote:
       | It will go well with fantasy ambience for RPGs:
       | https://tabletopy.com
        
       | stoneman24 wrote:
       | Sounds like a really interesting and delightfully frustrating
       | game. Bit busy to join at the moment but it's going on my list
       | for the future.
       | 
       | The comments about the loyalty of the sub-commanders being very
       | strong due to the extremely restrictive information environment
       | reminded me of opposite within the history book Nemesis by Max
       | Hastings.
       | 
       | He covers the end of the Second World War in the pacific. One
       | veteran commented that it seemed that the different commanders
       | and services within the US armed forces were more at conflict
       | with each other than with the Japanese, all trying to get the
       | resources and credit for the successes. (Especially MacArthur in
       | the Philippines).
       | 
       | The radio and news reels of the days could both provide fast
       | information about what is/was happening and also ensure fame and
       | fortune in the domestic environment if your narrative could
       | prevail
        
         | lubujackson wrote:
         | I loved this theme in Patton! I wonder if the gov't fostered
         | this or simply allowed it to manifest because, for the most
         | part, it gave extra motivation to the generals to succeed and
         | succeed well.
        
           | stoneman24 wrote:
           | Every war needs Heroes. Gotta sell those war bonds! Boost
           | favourable public opinion and control the positive narrative.
           | 
           | I believe that Stalin set 2 field marshals (Georgy Zhukov and
           | Ivan Konev) on a race to Berlin in the last weeks of WW2 in
           | Europe. Don't think Stalin cared who won.
        
         | hermitcrab wrote:
         | >One veteran commented that it seemed that the different
         | commanders and services within the US armed forces were more at
         | conflict with each other than with the Japanese
         | 
         | MacArthur and Patton were both massive egomaniacs, weren't
         | they? I guess well-adjusted people don't end up as wartime
         | generals.
         | 
         | But the Japanese army and navy hated each other so much that
         | some Admirals and Generals were walking around with bullets in
         | them from unsuccessful assassination attempts from the other
         | service. Not a great way to run a war.
        
       | largbae wrote:
       | As a recovered EVE Online addict, there is at least one game out
       | there that requires significant time on logistics and operations
       | to win wars.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | And while that one doesn't shy away from the material and
         | financial cost of war, it greatly simplified traveling,
         | allowing for shortcuts like jump drives allowing for instant
         | teleportation of armies.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | > there are a lot of games about strategy [..] and innumerable
       | games about tactics [..], but very few about operations. Almost
       | no games, as far as I'm aware, are interested in, say, the
       | logistics of feeding an army, or communication structures between
       | commanders in the field.
       | 
       | Allow me to whine about Ubisoft buying out Settlers, which was
       | initially about (peace time) logistics, and somehow thinking they
       | bought a RTS.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Same with Knights & Merchants, which was a city builder but you
         | had to feed your peasants and army every day (I forgot how time
         | worked in that game though), which involved a peasant going to
         | the inn to eat for X amount of time, then going to the
         | storehouse to pick up a bread or sausage and bringing it to a
         | soldier. Times every peasant, times every soldier. I don't know
         | if I remember that accurately though.
        
           | nottorp wrote:
           | At a quick check the lead developer and artist on Knights &
           | Merchants had previously worked on Settlers II at BlueByte.
           | Looks like they liked their job a lot and quit before the
           | series drifted more towards being a RTS.
        
       | yomismoaqui wrote:
       | > there are a lot of games about strategy [..] and innumerable
       | games about tactics [..], but very few about operations
       | 
       | Operational wargames are a thing (at least on boardgames)
       | 
       | https://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/181039/favorite-operation...
        
         | Kinrany wrote:
         | Are there games in this genre that aren't historical?
        
           | yomismoaqui wrote:
           | Don't know... maybe you can pick one of them in BGG and
           | drill-down by mechanics?
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | Arguably games like StarCraft include operational elements -
         | managing and defending the peon line is as important as the
         | front line.
        
         | bee_rider wrote:
         | Lots of games that are billed as "strategy" are really more
         | operations (or even tactics!) than strategy, right? I mean it
         | is often the case in a strategy game that you just start out at
         | war with everybody else, taking away the most important
         | strategic decision.
         | 
         | Or, there are games like Civilization or Total war where,
         | really, c'mon, you know it is just a matter of when, not if,
         | you go to war.
        
       | stoneman24 wrote:
       | Not sure how to do it, but a history of the campaign from the
       | different viewpoints would be an interesting read.
       | 
       | Perhaps a journalist piecing together the information, 6 months
       | to a year after the events. Once the ripples have settled, more
       | or less.
       | 
       | I might be biased as I have been reading 3 part history of the
       | American Civil War, which also suffered from the fog of war and
       | very slow information propagation.
       | 
       | Of course, history is always written by the victors after their
       | glorious triumph has been consolidated and the losers
       | comprehensively defeated.
        
       | lupusreal wrote:
       | Sounds very cool. I wish I had the patience for this kind of
       | real-time game. I did a real time Kerbal mission to Mun once and
       | that was about at my limit. It sounds like this wargame requires
       | much more.
        
       | oezi wrote:
       | Directly reminds me of Subterfuge which is a fog of war and
       | realtime submarine war game of conquering outposts. It has
       | absolutely 0% loyalty though which makes it hard to play.
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-23 23:01 UTC)