[HN Gopher] Game Hacking - Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Game Hacking - Valve Anti-Cheat (VAC)
        
       Author : LorenDB
       Score  : 78 points
       Date   : 2025-06-18 17:19 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (codeneverdies.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (codeneverdies.github.io)
        
       | sim7c00 wrote:
       | nice write up! clear and informative. i was surprised to learn
       | they roll it all in user mode, even though its not unbeatable its
       | pretty good anti cheat, especially considering no kernel stuff
       | (which can take shady or impractical turns for some other anti
       | cheat ..)
        
       | duskwuff wrote:
       | > To be continued
       | 
       | Unfortunately, doesn't look like the followup post (about
       | analyzing the VAC DLLs) has been written.
        
         | SirFatty wrote:
         | Maybe Valve sent Moose and Rocco to have a conversation with
         | the author (Caddyshack reference).
        
       | delusional wrote:
       | > Being banned from all "GoldSrc" games
       | 
       | This isn't true, or at least it wasn't back in the day. The logic
       | Valve seemed to follow was that VAC was "engine" bans. If you got
       | banned in a GoldSrc game, you'd be banned in all games using that
       | engine, but you'd be allowed to continue playing source games.
       | The same was also true in the opposite case.
       | 
       | More importantly, this meant that getting banned in Modern
       | Warfare 2, wouldn't get you banned in any other game, since no
       | other games were released on that engine.
        
         | eGQjxkKF6fif wrote:
         | It would show on people's accounts though and in in Counter-
         | Strike scrims and matches if somebody had a VAC ban on their
         | record/profile you just kicked them if you could and found a
         | new team to play.
         | 
         | So while engine specific, people still judged you, especially
         | in pubs (public servers)
         | 
         | Been a _long_ time since I've played. Fucking cheaters.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | I am not a fan of the signature-based techniques used by VAC, et.
       | al.
       | 
       | I've lost a few steam accounts to accurate but unintended (i.e.,
       | not actually cheating) detection of debugging tools attached to
       | totally unrelated processes on the same machine. Having anything
       | open like cheat engine or Tsearch while you join a lobby is a
       | guaranteed ban no matter what. Ethical hacking and malicious
       | hacking are indistinguishable from the perspective of this kind
       | of machine-wide blind signature detection.
       | 
       | Statistical techniques can dramatically reduce false positives in
       | cases like this. If someone at Valve had taken 10 seconds to
       | review my stats during the detected interval, they should have
       | been able to conclude I was not a threat to fair play.
        
         | psini wrote:
         | I understand the sentiment but I can't bring myself to think
         | valve is to blame or should be doing more. Getting a case of
         | "Yes officer, I have an NO2 bottle in my trunk, but what it is
         | plugged to is not actually the air intake for my car but
         | something entirely unrelated, if you just take 2 hours to dig
         | around and take it apart you'll also realize this"
        
           | MaxikCZ wrote:
           | Thats such a bad example. Ofc you can carry NO2 bottles
           | plugged into something, if its not air intake of your car,
           | and investigation should happen finding you not guilty.
        
           | mystified5016 wrote:
           | When you're accused of breaking the law, your accuser must
           | _prove_ you have broken the law. If they cannot, there are
           | actions you can take to recoup your damages.
           | 
           | Valve can ban you for any or no reason with no means of
           | recourse or refund.
           | 
           | Totally the same thing, yeah.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | You're right that they're not the same thing. The
             | government has a legal monopoly on the use of force. Valve
             | sells games.
        
         | qualeed wrote:
         | > _If someone at Valve had taken 10 seconds to review my stats_
         | 
         | It seems super reasonable when it's a one-off thing for your
         | own account. When you think about making it into policy and
         | scaling it up to 1000s of interactions, it quickly becomes
         | unreasonable.
         | 
         | > _Statistical techniques can dramatically reduce false
         | positives_
         | 
         | For a period of time, anyways. Until the statistics get gamed
         | by the cheaters (e.g. adjust accuracy of your auto-shoot from
         | 100% to 85% or whatever).
        
           | stoorafa wrote:
           | Computation isn't likely prohibitive when using the bedrock
           | of predictive models, linear regression, especially w some
           | optimization. Could also vary observation time so you only
           | need a prediction once every ten minutes or whatever
           | 
           | The real issue is the cost of false positive detection of
           | cheating is negligible since the vast majority of positives
           | are probably true positives--it's the cost of doing anti-
           | cheat business (minimal)
           | 
           | But yes cheats would be modified to just below thresholds of
           | detection
        
             | qualeed wrote:
             | > _Computation isn't likely prohibitive when [...]_
             | 
             | I think this might be in reply to my first comment about
             | scaling? If so, I just want to clarify that I was thinking
             | more along the lines of scaling the customer service/ban
             | appeal side rather than infrastructure.
             | 
             | If, for example, every ban had a component of someone at
             | Valve taking 10 seconds to review in-game stats at the time
             | of the ban, and then making a determination of whether or
             | not those stats seem reasonably non-cheater-ish (pretty
             | hard policy question in itself), the process would slow to
             | a crawl.
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | > adjust accuracy of your auto-shoot from 100% to 85% or
           | whatever
           | 
           | Sure - looking at K/D, accuracy, etc., is an important factor
           | in a statistical model.
           | 
           | Statistics can also include: Map name, player transform on
           | the map, keyboard and mouse events, GPU utilization, audio
           | playback events, etc. These are all very high information
           | time domain signals that can be correlated with the same from
           | any other player.
           | 
           | After a certain point, I don't think it matters if it is
           | publicly known what your signals are. The amount of
           | information becomes overwhelming in aggregate. You can impose
           | the curse of dimensionality on the cheater.
        
             | qualeed wrote:
             | > _Statistics can also include: Map name, player transform
             | on the map, keyboard and mouse events, GPU utilization,
             | audio playback events, etc. These are all very high
             | information time domain signals that can be correlated with
             | the same from any other player._
             | 
             | I don't think these are the type of stats the parent was
             | referring to when they said " _If someone at Valve had
             | taken 10 seconds to review my stats_ ".
             | 
             | But sure, those are all examples of statistics to start
             | logging, analyzing, and cross-referencing. (I would argue
             | most of the statistics you listed are of little to no use
             | in identifying false-positives (or good cheaters), but I
             | understand the point you're making with those examples.)
             | 
             | It would maybe reduce the false positive rate by some
             | amount at an increased monetary (and complexity) cost to
             | themselves. I think it would be well past the point of
             | diminishing returns though. Setting up all the
             | infrastructure, policy, processes just to reduce false-
             | positive rates by a few percent, maybe?
             | 
             | I think I'll stand by "that's unreasonable" and "cheaters
             | will game the statistics".
        
           | handoflixue wrote:
           | You could just do a basic automated review of stats. If
           | someone has a 50% win rate and a 20% accuracy, they're
           | probably not cheating - what's even the point of cheating if
           | you don't win more often than chance?
        
         | black3r wrote:
         | signature detection can also make a false positive if running
         | under Wine or in a VM (that's for example why you can't play
         | League of Legends or Valorant with GeForce Now anymore since
         | Riot revealed their new anti-cheat...)
        
         | invokestatic wrote:
         | Actually, VAC handles Cheat Engine and the like very well. You
         | won't get banned for simply having them open, only for having
         | them attached to the game, which I think is reasonable.
        
       | eGQjxkKF6fif wrote:
       | When VAC was originally introduced, CPUs only had 32bit
       | architecture, not that 64bit hindered anything; but you could
       | inject cheats in a near infinite amount of way, or have cheats
       | read from memory directly, or have cheats do things especially
       | through video drivers. Hell, glitching your nvidia drivers and
       | setting things like Negative LOD Bias would allow you to see
       | through textures in some cases (wall hacks)
       | 
       | It's been a cat and mouse game since the dawn of gaming and
       | e-sports.
       | 
       | Fun fact: CS 1.6 competetive had what was called "Organner" when
       | teams switched over from CAL to CEVO (first paid e-sports online
       | league) and as well as ESEA which is acclaimed for its anti-
       | cheats; the pro players you see/saw such as n0thing, summit-1g
       | (not saying he did cheat, he wasn't pro in CS1.6, 1g was a pug
       | team that meant 1st generation and a lot of us were in it) -- but
       | everybody in the pro scene around that did cheat, or had cheaters
       | on their team.
       | 
       | n0thing was banned from CAL rigorously for cheating in CAL-
       | Premier and rejoined with complexity after ringing for other
       | teams in CS1.6 matches (ban evading). he's admitted to cheating
       | in CS 1.6, and found fame with Counter-Strike 1.6'd Evil Geniuses
       | organization which encompanied the old compLexity roster.
       | 
       | These dickheads went on to make fortunes; not to say that they
       | weren't good in their own respects, but people such as n0thing
       | openly admit, and will admit if you ask them on the stream if
       | they cheated in 1.6 to get to where they're at.
       | 
       | You could inject cheat codes through your mouse drivers at LANs
       | and if you set a low FOV aimbot, it was undetectable: IE triggers
       | when you aim at their chest, aims up to hit the head; and had
       | advanced net code modifiers to land bullets in places you weren't
       | aiming all together.
       | 
       | Knowing this, completely ruined the pro scene and wanting to
       | watch these matches and personalities all together. To know how
       | many legitimate players out there were passionate about these
       | games, looking to go pro, and really enjoy competing at the
       | highest levels couldn't because the skill gap was so significant,
       | and then even more so because pro players had undetectable
       | cheats.
       | 
       | Still to this day it is virtually impossible to detect hacks,
       | however games such as DotA2 make it signifcantly harder to cheat
       | by only sending frames/updates when it should; rather than old
       | games sending all player data. I believe Valorant has a decent
       | system but all in all; I helped run the leagues and the level and
       | problem at which cheating was occurring, was known about, and not
       | being able to prove what you know, would make you SICK if you
       | ever enjoyed competing in e-sports.
        
         | henrebotha wrote:
         | Yet another reason why fighting games are the superior
         | competitive scene. The only "cheat" you could realistically see
         | at an offline event is macros, and the chances of a macro
         | increasing your win rate are slim to none. And there are so, so
         | many good offline events. Online there are more potential ways
         | to cheat, but nobody really cares. Just blacklist the player
         | and move on.
        
           | eGQjxkKF6fif wrote:
           | Fucking agreed. But if you check out street fighter on
           | youtube with 'Street Fighter mike ross tool assisted'
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS3Kq5p77k
           | 
           | You can inject cheats directly in to the Xbox's back then
           | directly through the fight sticks
           | 
           | You'd know though if somebody was cheating so not sure how
           | crazy the SF scene had cheats but check out tool assisted;
           | when I originally saw it I just put my head down
        
           | nyanpasu64 wrote:
           | Reminded of the Super Pichu story where someone modded his
           | ISO of Melee to increase Pichu's stats during a Melee
           | tournament.
        
         | Hikikomori wrote:
         | Csgo added it a few years ago as well. Works in fps games with
         | simple maps.
        
       | garrettjoecox wrote:
       | Years ago for educational purposes I decided to venture down
       | understanding how easy/difficult it was to create a hack for
       | Counterstrike.
       | 
       | After just a few hours of watching YouTube tutorials and
       | translating what I could grasp from C/C# into JavaScript (the
       | only language I knew at the time), I had a working Node.js
       | executable that edited memory offsets (using data from
       | hazedumper[1]), letting me see enemies through walls and auto-
       | fire as soon as they entered my crosshair.
       | 
       | I obviously only tried it out on an alt steam account for fear of
       | the infamous VAC ban, but no such ban happened. I only toyed with
       | it for a few weeks as I then grew disinterested but that
       | definitely left a sour taste in my mouth for the "effectiveness"
       | of VAC if a script kiddie like me at the time could throw
       | together something custom in just a few hours, I'm sure it'd be
       | much easier now with ChatGPT...
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/frk1/hazedumper
        
         | SteveNuts wrote:
         | I'll never understand what people actually get out of cheating
         | in games. I'll admit I've tried it a few times just for giggles
         | (way back in the Age of Empires II/MSN Gaming Zone days), but
         | the novelty quickly wears off and then it's just not even fun
         | anymore.
         | 
         | There must be some very interesting psychology behind this.
        
           | eszed wrote:
           | My perception of the psychology is a malformed competitive
           | drive. Competition is fun! But when it gets someone to the
           | place of "Must win _at all costs_ " it can be life-
           | destroying. For the video game cheats, I think it starts out
           | as "Must beat the other players", but then that gets (mostly)
           | boring once they are actually are beating the other players,
           | and it shifts to "Must beat the anti-cheat system."
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | For a lot of them, they aren't cheating, they are
           | compensating for bad teammates, bad servers, other cheaters,
           | bad hit reg, bad sound effects, bad whatever they can dream
           | up.
           | 
           | Cheating is "this is my actual skill level if there wasn't so
           | much bullshit happening to me"
           | 
           | Of course this is all a lie, but it's what they tell
           | themselves.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | In games where available weapons/gear depends on some global
           | "level", this could be a way to get your desired weapons
           | without having to grind for weeks/months. I guess a silver
           | lining of "pay to win" games is that you can now pay to avoid
           | that.
           | 
           | I remember trying to hack the levelling-up mechanism on
           | Crysis 2 - it worked by sending your post-game stats (client-
           | side) to a master server, so editing those stats in memory
           | before that happens would work (there seems to be no tracking
           | of stats on the game server side - even though they could've
           | had the _game_ server relay that to the master server).
           | 
           | Memory is fuzzy but I think I managed to level up to a stage
           | where I got the weapons I wanted. For my defense this kind of
           | "cheating" only "cooked the books" on the leaderboards and
           | did not give me any actual advantage in-game.
        
           | endemic wrote:
           | > There must be some very interesting psychology behind this.
           | 
           | It feels good when you win! If you cheat, that just means
           | you're smarter than the other player.
        
           | ipsento606 wrote:
           | even if everyone only tried it for a week, that still means
           | there will always be a certain number of cheaters in games,
           | because new players are always joining
        
           | kevingadd wrote:
           | One anecdote: I "cheated" at EVE Online by writing an
           | elaborate set of modding tools. Most of it was automation for
           | really finicky tedious stuff like drone management, or
           | automation for things like broadcasting your current target
           | to other players in your party. I also hacked in workarounds
           | for bugs in the official client. It enhanced my experience
           | with the game a lot. On the other hand, lots of players were
           | just botting.
           | 
           | I also maintained a browser addon for a while that had 100k+
           | weekly active users that added various features to a browser-
           | based game. Eventually that game had such bad problems with
           | botting and cheating that they had to introduce an anti-cheat
           | system, and we basically got into a little arms race for a
           | year or so where they'd add a new detection system and I'd
           | circumvent it. Similar to the EVE Online modding it was
           | things like workarounds for bugs in the game, improved UI,
           | keyboard shortcuts, etc. Eventually they drew a line in the
           | sand and said anyone using addons of any kind would get a
           | permanent ban, so that was that.
           | 
           | I think the vast majority of cheaters are just in it to ruin
           | other people's fun but sometimes people are violating ToS for
           | a better or different experience with the game. It's
           | unfortunate that the prevalence of malicious cheating means
           | that anti-cheat technology also has to basically ban modding
           | for fun.
        
           | bravetraveler wrote:
           | I, _quite literally_ , got a career! Started as a technical
           | curiosity, gave me in-roads to very weird corners of the
           | internet. Got to know many professionals I wouldn't have,
           | otherwise.
           | 
           | Ultimately served as the most effective networking I _ever_
           | did.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > I only toyed with it for a few weeks as I then grew
         | disinterested but that definitely left a sour taste in my mouth
         | for the "effectiveness" of VAC if a script kiddie like me at
         | the time could throw together something custom in just a few
         | hours, I'm sure it'd be much easier now with ChatGPT...
         | 
         | The thing is, VAC doesn't immediately ban you. Or anyone else.
         | It's looking for suspicious patterns across hundreds if not
         | thousands of players and collecting evidence over weeks if not
         | months to make sure they got relatively low false-positive
         | rates and don't end up banning people for a Windows update gone
         | wrong... and additionally, it raises the iteration time for
         | cheat developers as well, and that's the true point. Show
         | cheaters immediately that they're spotted and the only thing
         | you enter is an immediate arms race.
         | 
         | Your way of writing a cheat was probably detected but since _no
         | one else_ used it, VAC didn 't trigger.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | I haven't followed recently, but what I have understood is
           | that clear known old public hacks can result immediate ban.
           | For newest hacks they will gather cohort and then do them in
           | wave. Thus making it harder to evade detection or notice what
           | exactly was detected this time.
        
           | david422 wrote:
           | Blizzard's battle.net used to do that. They'd ban in waves. I
           | imagine immediate bans would make it much easier for cheat
           | authors to figure out which cheats were detectable and which
           | weren't.
        
       | snickerdoodle12 wrote:
       | Remote Code Execution like loading DLLs from a server and
       | executing them sounds like malware.
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | It's "just" an automatic update, like Chrome, etc.
         | 
         | It's one entry-point among others for RCE. If tomorrow NSA
         | wants to gather any files on your computer, all they need to do
         | is to ask Google to push an update for you through Google
         | Omaha.
         | 
         | https://epic.org/wp-content/uploads/privacy/nsa/foia/NSA-Goo...
         | 
         | Google and NSA have a "partnership".
         | 
         | Valve could also have such partnership in theory, through VAC,
         | though unlikely in practice.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >If tomorrow NSA wants to gather any files on your computer,
           | all they need to do is to ask Google to push an update for
           | you through Google Omaha.
           | 
           | They could in theory, but has this actually happened in
           | practice? Pushing a rogue update isn't exactly a novel idea,
           | but despite decades of government document leaks and APTs
           | being analyzed, there's scant evidence that any government
           | pressured a company to push a rogue update. Same goes for
           | other threat models like "government pressuring CAs into
           | issuing a certificate".
        
             | the8472 wrote:
             | For CAs that'd likely get them kicked out of browser trust
             | stores if someone detects it. And if it becomes known that
             | a corporation pushes government-malware updates then that
             | corporation would lose trust too.
             | 
             | So playing that card means moving the entire planet into a
             | lower-trust equilibrium where everyone has to defend
             | against that. In a better-coordinated world the conclusion
             | from that would be "let's not do that", alas on this Earth
             | TLAs have shown that they're willing to burn the commons,
             | forcing a response like RFC 7258.
        
           | andrecarini wrote:
           | I'm really curious about this but searching for "Google
           | Omaha" doesn't return anything related and the linked FOIA
           | request is... just a request, which I assume anyone can write
           | whatever they want in the request.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | The request itself isn't very damning either. It just make
             | references to vaguely worded "partnerships", and apparently
             | uses that to imply that Google is handing over data. Even
             | if we take that at face value, it says nothing about OP's
             | claim, which is that NSA can ask google to serve backdoored
             | updates.
        
           | snickerdoodle12 wrote:
           | I get chromium & firefox from my distro's repos
        
           | tonyhart7 wrote:
           | how is this any different than the Google sells your data to
           | Ads centre????
        
         | phoronixrly wrote:
         | The other day I mentioned that it's not OK for games to be
         | proprietary software and/or use unethical software like DRM
         | (which tbh anti-cheats are as well). I got accused that I
         | wanted game developers to starve to death.
        
           | altruios wrote:
           | that's where you turn and say: well, the game developer
           | executives however...
           | 
           | In all seriousness, DRM/anti-cheats => rootkits/rats. Don't
           | fall for it. Demand better.
        
             | AndriyKunitsyn wrote:
             | Can't say for DRM, but there's much bigger demand to play a
             | multiplayer action game without experiencing cheating than
             | demand for a similar game that's not a rootkit. Cheaters
             | are nasty. Devs make rootkit anti-cheats simply because
             | there's no better alternative, not because they're evil.
        
               | altruios wrote:
               | We need to define nebulous terms like 'better'... to a
               | company that's synonymous with what is 'cheapest' to
               | their bottom line. To a player, that's a more effective
               | anti-cheat.
               | 
               | To my understanding, the latter is much more effectively
               | solved server-side, but is more costly for the company to
               | run.
               | 
               | I'd rather play a game with server-side anti-cheat than
               | player-side-anti-cheat.
        
           | zeta0134 wrote:
           | I'll chime in here as a game developer: my upcoming release
           | will be an NES cartridge[0] and probably a Steam app. I'll be
           | adding no DRM, because I generally trust that folks that
           | weren't going to pay aren't going to be converted by its
           | presence, and that honest folks want to support my work.
           | Whether the storefronts I release on add their own is up to
           | them, and frankly I don't care.
           | 
           | Separately though, anti-cheat is another ball of wax
           | entirely, and I have extremely mixed feelings in this field.
           | Generally I favor "cheat detection should be serverside,
           | don't trust the client" from a general security perspective,
           | but... I can totally see a valid case in there, somewhere,
           | for more rigorous clientside checks. Somewhere along that
           | line though is rootkits and malware, and... well, no, please
           | tell me up front that you loaded your game engine with these
           | things so I can save my money and purchase something else,
           | thanks.
           | 
           | [0] Using a custom mapper, which will help initially to
           | discourage low-effort bootlegs at the very least. It's open
           | source though, and will not be too difficult to add to
           | emulators, at which point the dumped ROM should play fine on
           | them.
        
             | Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
             | > Generally I favor "cheat detection should be serverside,
             | don't trust the client" from a general security
             | perspective, but... I can totally see a valid case in
             | there, somewhere, for more rigorous clientside checks.
             | 
             | Yeah...
             | 
             | The simple fact is, it's simply not possible to have
             | completely server-side cheat detection simply because
             | you'll be relying _purely_ on heuristics which could very
             | well be wrong. It 's just not going to be possible to tell
             | the difference between a cheater and a really good player.
             | 
             | For any cheat detection to work, it has to be client-side.
        
               | zeta0134 wrote:
               | And the counter is fairly straightforward: any client-
               | side cheat detection has been broken. You can't trust the
               | client. It doesn't work, your server just thinks it works
               | because it's lying to you now.
               | 
               | Client-side cheat detection can work for tournaments, but
               | it's way simpler there: the tournament provides the
               | hardware, and the players aren't permitted to install
               | anything. This doesn't irritate me quite as much from a
               | security perspective of course, because I am not about to
               | log into my banking site on the presumably insecure
               | tournament device. It's also imperfect: a sufficiently
               | motivated pro player might bypass whatever locks you
               | installed on the thing, especially if they get to spend
               | any time with that device unmonitored.
               | 
               | Even better than that, tournaments have a way better
               | cheat detection method anyway: point a camera at the
               | player's hands. It's suddenly really, _really_ obvious if
               | they 're cheating!
        
         | dathinab wrote:
         | now think about in kernal anti cheat doing that ....
        
         | keyringlight wrote:
         | I'm surprised there haven't been more events of mods and tools
         | being used as trojans. For all the concern about anti-
         | cheat/DRM, PC gamers seem very selective over what sources of
         | code they're running on their computers they scrutinize.
         | There's an awful lot of users with "just enough" levels of
         | knowledge where I think a tempting enough release with the
         | right timing for a hot game could get a lot of installs.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | What do you mean? There have been ton of stealers and RAT
           | mods for games (and even for normal mobile apps too). It's
           | absolutely a problem and a ton people fall victim to them.
        
       | jmuguy wrote:
       | Arriving at college back in 2001 my roommate and I setup a CS
       | server. A lot of the freshman were getting their own computers
       | for the first time, and had not ever played computer games before
       | so we basically kickstarted a CS community. I think it took about
       | a month before a lot of them started cheating. It is kind of
       | ridiculous how much of a plague cheating is on competitive
       | gaming. Back then we would just observe the players and then ban
       | their IPs. Which was luckily enough given how the campus network
       | worked.
        
       | rimunroe wrote:
       | Back in 2000-2005 I was very active in a community centered
       | around 20 or so modded Counter-Strike servers which I volunteered
       | as an admin on. We were generally good about having at least one
       | admin on each server at any given time to deal with cheaters.
       | Occasionally someone wouldn't be around though.
       | 
       | There was a period of time lasting about a month or two where a
       | player with a name like BELT SANDER or ANGLE GRINDER or TABLE SAW
       | hung around. They were pleasant and unremarkable, but they
       | frequently used new Steam accounts and switched IPs.
       | 
       | This person definitely wasn't supposed to be an admin, but if
       | they were around when someone was cheating and no actual admins
       | were there, they'd somehow elevate their own permissions and ban
       | the offending player. We tried to figure out what was happening
       | and to see if we could somehow stop them, but we never did manage
       | it. They were somehow gaining rcon access to the host server.
       | After a while we just shrugged our shoulders. They didn't seem to
       | be harming anything, other than our peace of mind about our
       | security. Overall they were actually really helpful for stopping
       | late night/early morning disruptions.
        
         | malwrar wrote:
         | I used to write cheats for CSS & other Source games. Not sure
         | if the original CS would have the same vuln, but iirc you used
         | to be able to use an INetChannel::ReceiveFile function with
         | path traversal to grab the server config. There were a few cool
         | hacks around the file path filtering logic they added in my era
         | that (combined with ::SendFile) enabled a fun period of
         | arbitrary RCE on Source servers.
         | 
         | I knew one person who made a wormable payload for a game I
         | won't disclose which used that method. The methods are in
         | engine.dll so it's symmetric, clients would infect servers,
         | which in turn infects more clients, etc. Around then was when I
         | decided to start gaming from a VM lol.
        
           | hnlmorg wrote:
           | > Around then was when I decided to start gaming from a VM
           | lol
           | 
           | How?
           | 
           | Maybe I'm getting my dates mixed up but CS was released in
           | the late 90 / early 90s and consumer virtualisation wasn't
           | nearly good enough to game in for another 10 years.
           | 
           | Consumer CPUs didn't have virtualisation extensions and GPU
           | paravirtualisation wasn't available either in the early
           | 2000s.
           | 
           | VMWare wasn't even any good for just running Windows 2000 (I
           | mean, it was seriously impressive tech for its time, but it
           | was dog slow even for just basic basic things). So you'd be
           | stuck with Xen for anything serious. And that wasn't trivial
           | to get set up back then.
           | 
           | Plus given the lack of drivers for virtualised hardware like
           | soundcards and network interfaces, you'd likely be stuck with
           | full fat emulation for those devices.
        
             | debugnik wrote:
             | They said Counter Strike: Source, that's 2004-2013. I'm
             | still curious though, if it worked at all performance must
             | have been awful.
        
               | cyberax wrote:
               | VMWare supported OpenGL passthrough well enough for the
               | early Source games.
        
               | hnlmorg wrote:
               | Ahhhh, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks
        
           | WilcoKruijer wrote:
           | This exploit has its origin in the Quake engine. I remember
           | exploiting the same thing in CoD4 (2007) and I believe even
           | the release version of Black Ops I was vulnerable. It was
           | known as the 'q3dirtrav' vulnerability.
        
           | ZeWaka wrote:
           | Interesting, a friend of mine did that in GMod, leading to
           | the infamous 'cough' virus. (Yes, all the 'journalism' around
           | this is wrong, and it's not the person commonly blamed for
           | it).
        
         | CobrastanJorji wrote:
         | I love this story. Feels like a modern take on one of those old
         | "hidden master" stories where offending the quiet old man turns
         | out to be a disastrous idea.
        
       | koakuma-chan wrote:
       | Can you even get a VAC ban these days? I feel like it just
       | destroys your trust factor but doesn't actually ban you, and to
       | be honest that seems to be pretty effective for isolating honest
       | players from cheaters.
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | I stopped playing because I felt I could not trust other players,
       | I was getting too paranoid. There were not that many blatant
       | cheaters, but with closet cheaters, it's now very difficult to
       | know if your opponent is better than you or cheating in subtle
       | ways. It's a grey zone.
       | 
       | I guess it's the combination of a frustration of losing matches
       | and the constant suspicion. I was constantly trying to probe
       | things and watching replays, it ruined the game because I was
       | always focusing on cheating.
       | 
       | Ultimately, I think most CS players don't really care about
       | subtle/closet cheaters, so as long as they don't feel it, it's
       | fine, the game keeps its high player count, so it's a good facade
       | and valve is happy with that.
       | 
       | CS is a game I can really enjoy, until I couldn't anymore.
        
       | doublerabbit wrote:
       | Was part of a hacking scene that used to exploit C&C Red Alert 2,
       | YR.
       | 
       | Fun times were had as a script kiddie spawning the president and
       | placing it in an IFV and just go demolishing the other players
       | base with this fancy laser. But hey, I was 15 at the time.
       | 
       | Habbo Hotel too, being part of a "mafia" with a habbo multi
       | hacker app; the flicker glitch that made your character blink
       | causing lag. That and placing furni in rooms in the walls using
       | ArtMoney filters. I discovered perl while messing with MSN bots;
       | I miss those ages.
       | 
       | Others include NeoPets and Flash game hacking including RCEing
       | the Money Tree claiming the loot before anyone else. Then I
       | discovered IRC and Rx/PHAT botnets infecting via Windows 98
       | DCOM/NetSend exploits.
       | 
       | Tried it at school and next thing two of the colleges rejected my
       | application, parents called and banished from using any computer
       | in secondary school for the next two years. The college I went to
       | was polytechnic but the couple of the lecturers I had noticed my
       | skill and homed me on a different path than being a BlackHat.
       | 
       | My moral compass kicked in and even now it's an itch I really
       | want to scratch nowadays but PenTesting/CyberSecurity are too
       | "prestigious" that the only chance is to fall in to.
       | 
       | So I've been an Sys/Unix Admin for past 18 years watching the
       | world burn. I was using Linux when the kernel was at version 2
       | and Xorg was XFree86.
       | 
       | Luckily FreeBSD 8 gave me some fresh air and I've been using it
       | ever since. I'm 36.
        
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