[HN Gopher] The hamburger-menu icon today: Is it recognizable?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The hamburger-menu icon today: Is it recognizable?
        
       Author : thm
       Score  : 61 points
       Date   : 2025-06-17 14:01 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nngroup.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nngroup.com)
        
       | josefrichter wrote:
       | I always said Hamburger is an excuse for a lazy designer :-) Take
       | it with a pinch of salt.
        
         | ryanmcbride wrote:
         | I always use em because I'm the laziest type of designer: a dev
        
       | bandoti wrote:
       | The hamburger menu is a pet peeve of mine! It takes much less
       | cognitive load to simply read the word "menu".
       | 
       | Also, it used to be important when screens were nowhere near as
       | wide but now there's no longer any reason to use it the way it
       | is.
       | 
       | Perhaps it is permissible on a busy UI with many buttons, but
       | that job was taken by the ellipses, which also takes less
       | cognitive burden!
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | I couldn't agree more. The hamburger menu is in my list of the
         | worst UI elements around. It has nothing good to recommend it.
         | 
         | It's barely tolerable in situations where screen space is at a
         | premium, but it's still pretty awful.
         | 
         | > Its growing ubiquity helped standardize its meaning: Through
         | repeated exposure, users learned to recognize and interpret the
         | icon with increasing confidence.
         | 
         | Sure: it's the symbol of the "junk drawer" of the UI. Who knows
         | what random assortment lurks in there? It's a place you go only
         | as a last resort.
        
         | bilekas wrote:
         | I'm curious, not a UI designer at all here, but what's so
         | taxing about the hamburger? I grew up with it mostly always
         | around and never even thought twice about it..
        
           | bandoti wrote:
           | Any symbolic visual takes time for our brains to decode. When
           | compared to language which we've spent our entire lives
           | decoding and which comes much naturally, the cognitive burden
           | is much higher.
           | 
           | In addition the three bars are as mundane of a composition as
           | you can get, so it doesn't capture the eye well to begin
           | with. Typically the eye gets pulled to more visually
           | complexity.
           | 
           | But ultimately it boils down to the decoding idea--language
           | is the ultimate "codec" of human communication.
        
             | baseballdork wrote:
             | Isn't text a "symbolic visual"? I would think that at some
             | point a symbol that's used as frequently as the hamburger
             | icon would/could eventually become equivalent to the word.
        
               | zdragnar wrote:
               | > Typically the eye gets pulled to more visually
               | complexity.
               | 
               | Written words have a "voice" - that part of your mind
               | that recognizes something spoken. Hamburger menu icons
               | don't have that, nor do they have the higher contrast or
               | complexity that emoji have.
        
           | IAmBroom wrote:
           | The implication of "load" is not that it's a huge hurdle, but
           | just that it takes longer (even a tiny bit) for most users to
           | visually assess what it means. Add up all those little
           | delays, and you have a frustrated new user.
           | 
           | I regularly use a piece of software from IBM that has (this
           | won't surprise you) an awful UI. There are not one but TWO
           | hamburger menus, hidden amongst a bunch of text menu
           | headings, and figuring out where the one you want is can be
           | noticeably taxing. Explaining to another user where to click
           | is even worse - "No, not that one, the one under the... to
           | the right..."
        
             | Izkata wrote:
             | > but just that it takes longer (even a tiny bit) for most
             | users to visually assess what it means
             | 
             | Also as an example, three horizontal lines also sometimes
             | get used as grips to indicate an element can be click-
             | dragged around. It is less common than it used to be,
             | though.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | My problem with it mostly that it hides functionality. Seeing
           | a hamburger menu gives you no insight as to what options
           | exist under it.
           | 
           | The menu itself also tends to be a "grab bag" of multiple
           | otherwise unconnected things, increasing the effort required
           | to figure out how to do something.
        
             | cosmic_cheese wrote:
             | I like to refer to them as junk drawers due to their messy
             | nature.
             | 
             | Apps with hamburger menus also tend to have navigation
             | that's otherwise not well though out, think burying options
             | in chains of modals where the paths to those options change
             | whenever the app's dev decides it wants to push a different
             | feature/metric.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | I like the "junk drawer" analogy. It's perfect. IMO if
               | you as an app developer find yourself reaching for a
               | hamburger menu, that's the time to step back and stop
               | adding junk features, especially if you're writing a
               | mobile app or web page. If you can't fit your
               | application's critical functionality in, say, 4 tabs
               | across the bottom of the app, the app is probably trying
               | to do too much.
        
               | cosmic_cheese wrote:
               | That's often the case, but the other common problem is
               | lack of consideration about hierarchy. It's fine if every
               | function of the app isn't accessible with a single tap --
               | that's probably not necessary except for the app's most
               | pivotal functions, but most things should be able to be
               | used within two taps and almost everything within three,
               | with the paths being logical and predictable.
               | 
               | It's plenty doable, but like I said it takes some sitting
               | down and planning and perhaps more importantly, design
               | centered around the user and their needs and less around
               | looking pretty in a slideshow or trying herd the user
               | around.
        
           | KaiMagnus wrote:
           | I know it's only anecdotal, but my mom doesn't get it. She's
           | not super interested in her iPad and basically only uses it
           | when she has to or for FaceTime. She'd be the perfect test
           | subject for stress testing UIs and more interfaces than you'd
           | think are doing a pretty poor job of explaining themselves.
           | Not many icons are intuitive, hiding something in modal
           | windows, muscle memory/dexterity and precision are all
           | problem areas.
           | 
           | The hamburger is basically all of that rolled into one
           | button. It's pretty abstract, you never know what's behind it
           | and when they get fancy with animations and swipe gestures,
           | it's almost always a failure.
           | 
           | I know it's a convenient way to clean up a screen, but the
           | content in that menu needs to be absolutely optional for it
           | to work.
        
           | myself248 wrote:
           | Because when I eat a hamburger, there isn't a whole
           | restaurant inside it.
           | 
           | Nothing about the food suggests its function. And the
           | function varies, it might be a whole rabbit-warren of menus
           | and options. It might be a bunch of actions. It might just be
           | one last item that wouldn't fit on the screen. It's an awful
           | graphic for an awful concept. "We ran out of UI ideas so we
           | just shoveled what was left into this junk drawer" is no way
           | to go through life.
        
         | msgodel wrote:
         | Even the palm pilot with its ridiculously tiny screen and bad
         | touch ditigizer managed CUA-style menus.
         | 
         | Mobile UI design isn't about making things more understandable,
         | it's about getting the user into a helpless and suggestible
         | state so your ad impressions are worth more.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | More than anything hamburger menu type design feels to me
           | like an "avoid effort and skill as much as possible" sort of
           | thing more than it does an "optimize ad revenue" sort of
           | thing, as does flat design. It's about lowering the bar for
           | what's acceptable to ship as far as you can possibly get away
           | with. Plaster some scrolling flat rounded rectangles and a
           | hamburger menu on the screen and boom you've got an app.
        
             | Y_Y wrote:
             | Don't make me think? Don't let me think!
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | I had to look up "CUA".
           | 
           | Common User Access (CUA) is a standard for user interfaces
           | developed by IBM to provide consistency across operating
           | systems and computer programs.
        
         | inanutshellus wrote:
         | I think it's time to let this pet peeve go. :(
         | 
         | It wouldn't be fair to use "MENU", as not everyone speaks
         | English, and regardless, many UIs aesthetically need an icon,
         | so why not have standardized on one?
         | 
         | It's healthy to have decided on an icon, but I agree an
         | ellipsis would've been (and still would be) intuitive too.
         | Maybe designers trying to make their mark will start using
         | ellipses in new designs... who knows.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | Replacing the hamburger icon with the word "Menu" wouldn't
           | make anything better. The problem isn't the icon, it's the
           | disorganization.
        
             | inanutshellus wrote:
             | If the designer wants to encourage super-users and quicker
             | access then splaying out all options is better. If they
             | want "clean and tidy", the icon is better.
             | 
             | Heck, even when I have splayed out all the most-important
             | options across the screen... where do I put the /rest/ of
             | the menu options? in an "other" menu, likely drawn with 3
             | horizontal lines.
        
           | sceptic123 wrote:
           | You're assuming that it's an agreed and understood standard,
           | which it really isn't. Tech savvy audiences often don't find
           | it easy to understand that there are lots of people who don't
           | understand things like this.
           | 
           | In terms of using MENU, if your audience is not English
           | speaking then you can, and should, consider adding
           | internationalisation and localisation as an alternative. If
           | you have considered it for your content, it makes sense to
           | consider it for your UI as well.
        
           | etblg wrote:
           | Judging from the list of languages that have "menu" as a word
           | (with a comparable definition to "menu"), I don't think it's
           | a stretch for people to know what the word "menu" means:
           | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/menu , it's not even
           | originally an English word afterall.
        
           | loloquwowndueo wrote:
           | No sorry - an ellipsis is the meatballs menu, not a
           | hamburger. Different things. There's also the kebab menu
           | (also a different thing) and the fighting corn dogs menu ...
        
             | bandoti wrote:
             | This is too much for me now haha.
             | 
             | A restaurant menu contains hamburgers, hotdogs, meatballs.
             | A UI menu is represented by abstract icons of the items
             | contained within a restaurant menu.
             | 
             | Now I am starting to like the hamburger menu after all...
             | perhaps more as satire though. :)
             | 
             | For what it's worth, ellipsis is the best of the bunch,
             | because it means the same thing as in the written language,
             | and is concise enough to use as a button that suggests what
             | the action does.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | And for restaurant websites, "Menu" is often one of the links
           | inside the menu, so that's certainly confusing.
        
         | throwaway843 wrote:
         | I'm curious what's cognitively loading about three horizontal
         | bars arranged in a square located in the corner of an app or
         | website.
         | 
         | Screens, somewhat counterintuitively, used to be wider. Because
         | they were not on handheld mobile devices. Then we had the
         | menubar and nested dropdowns, suckerfish, etc. It was an
         | exciting time to see a menu, you were never quite sure what you
         | were going to get - I believe there are positives to learning
         | curves for power users.
         | 
         | But I digress. San  means 3 in Chinese. It doesn't take
         | cognitive load. Why does a hamburger? I really am curious.
        
           | bandoti wrote:
           | Well, to put it in perspective, consider these three words:
           | 
           | Menu Settings Notepad
           | 
           | If these are actionable buttons, the message is encoded and
           | decoded by viewers.
           | 
           | Three bars means what, exactly? There's the cognitive load.
        
             | xnx wrote:
             | > Three bars means what, exactly? There's the cognitive
             | load.
             | 
             | This was true early on when it was not a common convention,
             | or only used in mobile apps. Now, it is nearly universal,
             | though still not nearly standard enough in placement or
             | presentation.
             | 
             | If we were to redo history, it would've been great to see
             | an expanding menu closely positioned by a top-left logo.
             | Sort of like a Windows Start Menu for each website.
        
               | bandoti wrote:
               | I understand and agree to an extent with common use.
               | 
               | However, it stands that language is more specific and
               | unambiguous--thus better suited to communicate an action.
               | 
               | There's also the problem of the plethora of OTHER icons
               | which use horizontal bars to cause even more cognitive
               | load.
               | 
               | And then, there are many people who have not learned
               | hamburger menu since childhood, and thus the burden is
               | even greater!
        
             | throwaway843 wrote:
             | Three bars means... the exact same thing the thousands and
             | thousands of times it's been seen before.
             | 
             | People have no inate understanding of 'menu'. We don't even
             | read short words like that letter by letter, it's read as a
             | block and is far more complex than three bars.
        
               | GloriousKoji wrote:
               | I've seen too many variants of icons for "general" menu.
               | Three bars, three dots, square, square in square, tall
               | rectangle, gear, company logo and probably a few more.
               | 
               | And if we want to focus on just three bars let's not
               | leave out the skeuomorphism trend where three bars meant
               | the "grip" area, something to use to rearrange items or
               | windows.
        
               | bandoti wrote:
               | Well, actually the three bars are now two: the cool kids
               | have replaced hamburger with a sausage roll.
               | 
               | See https://apple.com
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | For continuity, maybe we should call it the "hot dog"
               | menu.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | _Three bars means... the exact same thing the thousands
               | and thousands of times it 's been seen before._
               | 
               | This is true. It means "exactly the same" where it was
               | used millions of times before it landed on a computer:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bar
        
           | 6510 wrote:
           | I use to know a gamer who used a phone for something like a
           | decade. He got stuck doing something and I had to point out
           | the burger to him. The thing he was looking for was
           | interestingly enough not there. Apparently all websites he
           | used were perfectly usable without knowing the button exists.
           | 
           | In contrast, some people can't not-read something and it
           | being a button is automatically parsed out. Symbols and icons
           | have to be learned which is a more gradual process. The other
           | day I didn't recognize the flower icon for settings.
        
         | v5v3 wrote:
         | "Also, it used to be important when screens were nowhere near
         | as wide but now there's no longer any reason to use it the way
         | it is."
         | 
         | Mobile users?
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | There is more than enough room for 4 menus across the top of
           | a typical mobile device. If you expect the user to need to
           | access it regularly, you could even put it across the bottom.
           | This is why the homescreen on most phones has 4 items across
           | the bottom; not a single hamburger menu with "Phone,
           | Messages, Web, ..."
        
       | v5v3 wrote:
       | The article says 'positon the Hamburger in the top left corner',
       | but many sites have it in top right too.
        
         | deepvibrations wrote:
         | Yeah, I assumed the standard was actually top-right...
         | 
         | I'd be interested in people's thoughts about which side is
         | best, or if it just doesn't matter.
        
           | JohnFen wrote:
           | I don't think it matters which side. What matters more is
           | that everyone does it the same. Most times, I see it on the
           | right.
        
             | ryandrake wrote:
             | You're never going to get app developers to independently
             | agree on one consistent way to do anything. In fact, many
             | of them will deliberately do the opposite of what everyone
             | else does, for nebulous "brand differentiation" reasons.
        
           | inanutshellus wrote:
           | Most of us Westerners read left-to-right, while being right-
           | handed.
           | 
           | Thus:
           | 
           | "Where should I go?" is answered quickly in the top-left.
           | 
           | Whilst experts repeatedly accessing on Mobile requires top-
           | right.
           | 
           | Just depends on your priorities.
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | > Whilst experts repeatedly accessing on Mobile requires
             | top-right.
             | 
             | Surely bottom-right?
        
               | OkayPhysicist wrote:
               | Putting anything but your page content for me to drag to
               | scroll in the bottom half, right third of a mobile site
               | is a capital offense, IMO.
        
           | IAmBroom wrote:
           | I think of its default as "top left". But "top right" is
           | frequent.
           | 
           | "Not quite top, mostly right" is where IBM puts their SECOND
           | hamburger icon on DNG software. May they rot in eternity...
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | My I present GNOME:
         | 
         | https://woltman.com/media/posts/244/gr-menus-moving-around-3...
         | 
         | Because having a full menu bar at the top made it too easy to
         | find options.
        
           | streptomycin wrote:
           | A full menu bar would take up too much space, then they
           | wouldn't have room to put huge amounts of padding everywhere.
        
         | martin_a wrote:
         | The article is wrong on that. Top left is "reserved" for the
         | logo, top right for a menu. That's learned behaviour all across
         | the "left to right" world.
        
         | vjvjvjvjghv wrote:
         | A good compromise would be to place it in the middle. That way
         | everybody is equally unhappy
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | Most people use their right hand to interact with a mobile
         | phone so it makes more sense to put it on the right side.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | That's great, because the "move this panel" symbol, that is
         | composed by a set of horizontal lines, is usually on the top-
         | right too.
        
       | samwhiteUK wrote:
       | That Newsweek one would have had me stumped for a little, I
       | think. I like to think I'm pretty tech-savvy, but not knowing
       | Newsweek, that looks a little bit like a logo to me. I think I
       | would assume that was going to take me to the homepage and avoid
       | it.
        
       | strict9 wrote:
       | Around 10 years ago I thought they were a terrible practice. A
       | win for graphic designers that wanted simple and nice looking at
       | the expense of usability.
       | 
       | But over time people learn and its standard. And as the NN group
       | article points out: it has become familiar and known today.
       | 
       | My favorite iteration of this was in the This American Life
       | mobile app that used a graphic of an actual hamburger instead of
       | 3 stacked gray lines. This was also about 10 years ago I believe.
       | Unfortunately I can't find any reference or graphic depicting it.
        
         | josefrichter wrote:
         | People get used to everything. Including war. Just because they
         | learn how to pull through, does not mean it's any good.
        
           | savanaly wrote:
           | But the designs literally go from bad to good once people
           | know how to use them. Unlike war, which is bad whether people
           | are used to it or not. If you're insisting the hamburger
           | design is bad for some other reason rather than people not
           | knowing how to use it, it's the same mistake the designers
           | made in the first place when they insisted it was good
           | despite people not knowing how to use it.
        
             | torstenvl wrote:
             | False
        
         | nancyminusone wrote:
         | It's been 10 years and my parents are still clueless
         | 
         | "What is that? Why don't they put 'menu' there?"
         | 
         | I don't know dad, I'm not the one who made it
        
           | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
           | Can you please let them know to change it? Someone should
           | tell them
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Text labels add SO much in terms of usability. I don't know
           | why we got away from them. I guess they don't look as pretty.
        
             | card_zero wrote:
             | Not an option, because it makes it harder work to sell a
             | product to the Chinese.
        
               | kevindamm wrote:
               | the RTL languages are also a pain point, and even German
               | can make your UI designing difficult for length of words.
               | Really, the high variability of width for i18n'ed words
               | in general is I think where the icon-heavy approach
               | originated.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | I was using a cheap device the other day and it had:
               | 
               | [<] [xxx] [>]
               | 
               | Left button was UP and right button was DOWN (numbers
               | e.g. temperature).
               | 
               | Is there any reason that < would be UP in Chinese?
        
             | ericmcer wrote:
             | The brain is better with images once it has been trained to
             | recognize them. Just sucks for the people that never got
             | the training.
        
             | skrtskrt wrote:
             | The problem is not only do all text labels have different
             | sizes in one language, they also have completely different
             | unrelated sizes in other languages.
             | 
             | Standardized icons can be laid out easily regardless of
             | language
        
           | foresto wrote:
           | I hope your parents never have to deal with European
           | appliances, the controls of which are often labeled with
           | mysterious icons instead of words.
        
             | stanac wrote:
             | Easy i18n? They don't have to translate the UI to 30+
             | languages.
        
       | pharrington wrote:
       | Hamburger is pretty bad, but we adjust if the pattern is repeated
       | enough.
       | 
       | Which means we can also adjust to a waaaay better alternative to
       | the hamburger menu (but i dont know what that is rn).
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | The article points out the solution: the word "MENU".
        
           | pharrington wrote:
           | Absolutely just use the word "MENU" instead, if the button's
           | already in a textual interface. And if not, labeling the
           | hamburger is almost always better than leaving it naked. But
           | I think there are better overall solutions to be found
           | outside of the local maximum, if you will.
        
           | Milner08 wrote:
           | Great if you are an English speaker. Do we then translate
           | that to every language we need to support? Do we scale the UI
           | to work for the different length words?
           | 
           | I dont think that is any better at all. If anything I think
           | its solidly worse.
        
             | josefx wrote:
             | Menu seems to be the kind of word that pops up in a lot of
             | languages.
        
               | qualeed wrote:
               | Some with extra letters, or accents, or fonts entirely.
               | Other languages share the concept but the word is
               | completely different.
               | 
               | menou, valikko, roghchlar, meniyu , minw, meniu, trinh
               | don
               | 
               | To pick a few.
        
               | SoftTalker wrote:
               | So translate it. Unless your app is so simple that it has
               | no other text labels anywhere, you're going to need to
               | need translations anyway.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | Ideally, the translation needs to happen before the UI
               | design. I've seen a lot of UI designs come straight from
               | the designer with a beautiful pixel-perfect depiction of
               | controls, but assuming English. So the "MENU" button was
               | designed deliberately such that exactly four latin
               | characters fit inside of it horizontally. Or assuming
               | people's names fit in one line of text, or addresses have
               | a certain number of lines and so on. Then when you get
               | around to translating everything, the design has to go
               | back to the drawing board.
        
       | SirFatty wrote:
       | I assumed that hamburger description was after-the-fact, not the
       | original designation. It always felt that way to me.
        
         | JohnFen wrote:
         | I think the graphic itself was intended to represent a menu: a
         | list of items.
        
         | Izkata wrote:
         | It was, it's a simplified version of the original that included
         | the border around the lines, similar to one of the examples in
         | the article (imagine a physical restaurant menu). Along the
         | same lines, the three lines have since been further simplified
         | into three dots in a lot of places - no longer looking
         | hamburger-like.
        
           | ambrose2 wrote:
           | > three dots
           | 
           | The kebab
        
         | loloquwowndueo wrote:
         | It's just difficult to describe, so instead of "click on the
         | three horizontal lines thing" it's easier to say "hit the
         | hamburger" and the name stuck. I guess if they were going to
         | just have an abstract meaningless icon they should have picked
         | something easier to describe over the phone, for example.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Great work by NN/group documenting examples in the wild and
       | providing clear suggestions.
       | 
       | It's amazing just how bad UI/UX professionals are (often due to
       | backgrounds in graphic design instead of human computer
       | interaction). Making changes as small as putting an outline
       | around the hamburger menu (makes it looks like a document) or
       | putting dots in front of the lines (makes it look like a button
       | to add bullets) makes the icon unrecognizable/confusing.
        
       | sceptic123 wrote:
       | Why not just recreate the [original
       | experiment](https://www.nngroup.com/articles/hamburger-menus/)
       | rather than citing a book that uses different methodology?
       | 
       | Given the original study shows quite comprehensively how bad a
       | design pattern it is, it would be far more interesting to see
       | that research repeated rather than a test on hamburger
       | variations.
        
       | SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
       | Text requires effort to translate, and might not fit well for
       | some languages and some UIs. So managers don't want to pay for
       | translations & thus want only icons, and designers don't want to
       | make UIs that work for wildly different label widths. This is not
       | unique to hamburger menus, but it does mean that "just replace it
       | with the word 'Menu'" will be rejected.
       | 
       | Hamburger menus are annoying because they add a click. They can
       | save some screen space on small devices by allowing most of the
       | top area which would be covered by a menu bar to be clear, with
       | only a single button in the corner. This is pretty useless on
       | larger displays (laptops, desktops, etc.) but makes sense on
       | phones, and sometimes on smaller tablets.
       | 
       | Hiding options happens even with traditional menus. Do you change
       | application settings under Edit->Preferences, or is it
       | File->Settings, or Tools->Options, or something else? Or worse,
       | do you change some things in Edit->Preferences, others in
       | Tools->Options, and yet more in File->Settings?
       | 
       | Hamburger menus aren't always bad design, but they often allow
       | hiding bad design by making the UX worse. Attempting to unify UI
       | across wildly different interface types (desktops, laptops,
       | tablets, & phones) inevitably leads to bad design & bad UX.
       | Keeping a common color scheme or overall style is fine, but the
       | interaction patterns of the different input schemes (keyboard &
       | mouse, keyboard & touchpad, touchscreen) are different enough
       | that UIs need to vary between device types for a good UX.
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | > _Text requires effort to translate_
         | 
         | Localization used to be a massive, expensive undertaking, but
         | with all the cheap translation services we have today, I doubt
         | it still is. I wonder of there will be a shift at some point,
         | where more text-heavy GUIs will make a comeback if translation
         | is cheap.
        
           | officeplant wrote:
           | >cheap translation services we have today
           | 
           | Which seemingly put out cheap translations. At least in my
           | experience with modern Anime/Movies/Videogames. You can
           | always tell when actual human effort was put into
           | localization and not just machine translation.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _with all the cheap translation services we have today, I
           | doubt it still is_
           | 
           | My company employs a number of full-time translators, some of
           | whom do translations for my web site.
           | 
           | When I talk with them, they all say that computer
           | translations, while improving, are still terrible. They spend
           | a lot of time fixing Google translations that make it into
           | mockups, and sometimes try to show me why the computers are
           | wrong. I don't speak their languages, so it's usually lost on
           | me, though I've learned that there's about 50 different ways
           | to say certain words in Spanish between Arizona and Tierra
           | del Fuego.
           | 
           | Could they be protecting their jobs? If that's all they did
           | for the company, then maybe. But translation is only about
           | 25% of their work, so they'd still be employed. A few long
           | for good internet-based translation so they can do other
           | things.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | The hamburger menu would be fine, even great, if it was a
       | standard menu that every mobile app had in the same place with
       | the same look [0]. But its purpose, positioning, and look is
       | different in every app, so it's just one more thing to click on
       | to see what it does. It also doesn't make sense as soon as you
       | have more than one menu [1], or on the desktop -- mostly because
       | a single menu rarely makes sense on the desktop, and because an
       | icon tends to be a much smaller pointer target compared to a
       | regular labeled menu, for such a main entry point.
       | 
       | [0] like in Windows 1.0, I guess:
       | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Windows1.0.pn...
       | 
       | [1] unless it's a secondary but universal menu like the Windows
       | system menu in [0]
        
         | xg15 wrote:
         | On that matter, I don't get Android's design trajectory: They
         | _used to_ have exactly that: A standard button in the OS for
         | the app context menu, on some devices even a physical button.
         | For some reason, they got rid of it in newer versions, so every
         | interested app has to implement it itself, which of course
         | causes to UI to become wildly inconsistent between apps. I don
         | 't understand why.
        
           | izacus wrote:
           | That was 15 years ago.
        
           | fidotron wrote:
           | They had enough fun getting app developers to support the
           | back button properly, let alone the context menu!
           | 
           | In truth Android has suffered from the fact everyone starts
           | on iOS first and then ports to Android, screen by screen in
           | many cases, meaning accommodation of Android specific UI
           | flows simply doesn't happen.
           | 
           | The removal of physical buttons was largely motivated by OEMs
           | wanting to eliminate moving parts which make things far more
           | expensive to build/test than simply one slightly bigger
           | capacitive touchscreen.
        
             | skrtskrt wrote:
             | physical buttons are also a pain for waterproofing
        
             | tdeck wrote:
             | I'm pretty sure on most phones those buttons were just an
             | extension of the digitizer / touchscreen backlight.
        
         | DidYaWipe wrote:
         | I recently had to resume using Windows extensively after a long
         | hiatus, and the regressions I had already noticed in occasional
         | use remain an infuriating PITA every damned day. It's not a
         | matter of adjustment to something different. It's a matter of
         | incompetent UI.
         | 
         | The elimination of the standard menu bar in one application
         | after another is a huge one. Look at Edge: I wanted to save a
         | PDF I was viewing. Fat chance.
         | 
         | There's no menu. In the toolbar past the URL box there's a
         | jagged Pac-Man that I guess is supposed to be yet another
         | "gear" icon. Then there's a star with lines in it for
         | "favorites" and then your own avatar and then three dots with a
         | tiny upward pink arrow overlapping part of one of them.
         | 
         | In the upper-left corner of the window there are more boxy
         | icons... let's see what those are... "Workspaces" and "Tab
         | actions menu."
         | 
         | So is "save file" under Gear-Man, the three dots, or somewhere
         | else?
         | 
         | And BTW, WHAT APPLICATION IS THIS? You have no idea which
         | window belongs to which one, because the title bars are
         | missing.
         | 
         | What a truly incredible, pathetic mess. The Mac's single menu
         | bar is a UI blunder, but NO menu bar is monumentally stupid.
        
           | pigeons wrote:
           | Somewhere along the way I have lost title bars to know the
           | title of each tab in my browser, whether firefox or brave. I
           | don't know if I need to set it in the browser, or kde, or
           | kwin, i also tried microsoft windows and the same behavior.
        
             | nyanpasu64 wrote:
             | In Firefox if you right-click the title bar and "Customize
             | Toolbar..." you can check Title Bar.
        
           | jimjimjim wrote:
           | Thank you for putting in words what has been subconsciously
           | annoying me about modernized windows applications. It seems
           | like they are consistently worse with no recognizable
           | improvements.
           | 
           | Who is to blame? Is it the UI people wanting a "clean" look
           | or is it misguided UX people?
        
             | DidYaWipe wrote:
             | I think it's people who lack
             | 
             | 1. Experience
             | 
             | 2. Aptitude
             | 
             | 3. Supervision
             | 
             | And then there are the apologists who attack anyone who
             | calls for better, and almost the entire rest of the
             | population... who
             | 
             | 1. Don't take time to convey feedback
             | 
             | 2. Can't find a way to convey feedback
             | 
             | 3. Can't distill exactly why the product sucks and
             | formulate feedback.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | When will Windows replace the start menu with a hamburger? When
       | will Apple replace the Apple menu with a hamburger?
        
         | Clamchop wrote:
         | Using the product or vendor logo as a menu icon on desktop is
         | its own trope. The Apple menu and the Start menu aren't even
         | the same kind of menu, nor do they function the same as
         | "hamburger" app or website navigation on mobile.
        
       | loloquwowndueo wrote:
       | lol "why are menus represented by hamburgers, kebabs, meatballs"
       | ... "beats me. They're food and you usually have food on a menu?"
        
         | blacksmith_tb wrote:
         | My assumption is some designer chose the three horizontal lines
         | to suggest a list of choices. Later, for some tiny space where
         | lines didn't fit well, they were crushed into three dots
         | stacked vertically (which also sort of suggests an ellipsis
         | tipped on its side?) Why we decided to use food metaphors...
         | well, who isn't thinking about what's for lunch?
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | > which also sort of suggests an ellipsis tipped on its side
           | 
           | They're bullet points indicating a list of items.
        
       | vladstudio wrote:
       | On my personal website I decided to have a button that has both
       | hamburger icon and the word "menu" (on mobile version). Had no
       | complaints!
       | 
       | https://vlad.studio/
        
         | kogus wrote:
         | Not related to the original post, but I have been visiting your
         | site for 15+ years now, and it's one of my favorite online art
         | sites. Really grateful for your many years of beautiful work.
        
           | yreg wrote:
           | Wow, I forgot about this place, but 15 years ago it was my
           | favorite source of wallpapers. The art is as beautiful as
           | ever.
           | 
           | So are some of the accompanying texts:
           | 
           | > This picture is dedicated to Kiev (Kyiv), a capital of
           | Ukraine. It is loosely based on a 13-th century map - this is
           | what center of Kyiv looked like ~900 years ago! The original
           | map also included the city wall - however, I decided not to
           | wrap the buildings into the wall, since in my dream world, a
           | city would not need walls.
           | 
           | https://vlad.studio/wallpaper/kyiv/
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | There is a balance to be struck between accessibility (speed
       | sense) and discoverability, which disfavor hamburgers, and
       | cognitive load minimization, which favors hamburgers, if you
       | reserve it for lesser-used items. Perhaps a themed menu icon that
       | indicates what it holds would be better.
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | Waitasec, you mean we could give icons different shapes to
         | indicate what they do?
        
       | ulrischa wrote:
       | As here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44182509
        
       | timewizard wrote:
       | Was it ever? I honestly think you could have used almost any
       | icon, given the limited screen real estate, and the tendency to
       | put menu buttons at the corners of the interface.
       | 
       | I think we spend too much time pondering "semiotics" when we
       | should just consider the _basic_ "ergonomics."
        
       | ElevenLathe wrote:
       | When I explained what this icon was called to my ~70yo mother,
       | she said it should be called the pancake menu instead. I agree
       | and have been saying that ever since.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | Playing with some of my older iDevices recently, I realized
         | that, to me, the page curl icon is the best indicator of "more
         | stuff in here."
         | 
         | To refresh your memory: https://c8.alamy.com/comp/BJBDGA/apple-
         | iphone-3gs-3g-smartph...
        
       | officeplant wrote:
       | It still hasn't entered the lexicon of normal folk and has me
       | going NO THE THREE LINES / THREE DOTS in X CORNER quite often.
       | Too bad it's not four.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | The patent for the "start here" menu expired a decade ago. We can
       | just call it the "start here" button.
       | 
       | https://patents.google.com/patent/DE69523543D1/
        
       | jimjimjim wrote:
       | For people mentioning the need for translations, clicking the
       | button, regardless of label or not will usually show... text.
       | that needs translations. only one more word for a label.
        
       | EGreg wrote:
       | This one was better: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/hamburger-
       | menus/
       | 
       | Our findings show that, across all 3 different metrics, hidden
       | navigation significantly decreases user experience both on mobile
       | and on desktop.
       | 
       | Both on mobile and desktop, the content discoverability was
       | significantly lower when the navigation was hidden. This measure
       | showed a more than 20% drop in discoverability on sites with
       | hidden navigation, compared with sites with visible or combo
       | navigation. In other words, visible or combo navigation made
       | people more likely to complete the task successfully and without
       | relying on search.
        
       | juped wrote:
       | There's a special place in Hell for those who put hamburger menus
       | in desktop apps, _Jetbrains_.
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-17 23:00 UTC)