[HN Gopher] How you breathe is like a fingerprint that can ident...
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How you breathe is like a fingerprint that can identify you
Author : XzetaU8
Score : 103 points
Date : 2025-06-15 06:41 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
| XzetaU8 wrote:
| http://archive.today/JX3go
| eimrine wrote:
| I have noticed that I need so much fresh air while sleeping that
| it is not very comfortable for me to sleep with another person. I
| can not say anything about breath patterns but I suspect that O2
| consumption has to be among those patterns.
| zeristor wrote:
| Does an open window help?
|
| A CO2 monitor might be helpful too?
| stapedium wrote:
| I suspect the fresh air is more an issue with temperature and
| humidity rather than oxygen content. Try a fan first.
| dudeinjapan wrote:
| I always have to tell my girlfriend to stop hogging all the O2.
| encom wrote:
| You are now breathing manually.
| smcin wrote:
| but we were promised Full Self-Breathing by now!
| gbnwl wrote:
| We have it! It's just Full Self Breathing (Supervised)
| cnity wrote:
| I like to take these types of comments as an invitation to be
| present for a moment. Thank you!
| silon42 wrote:
| Time to breathe without rhythm.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Way ahead of you, I swear I was born without a working
| internal clock.
| glitchc wrote:
| The body can sense when it is deprived of oxygen and regulate
| breathing accordingly. See the Carotid body [1]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotid_body
| yvely wrote:
| I just lost the game
| tumsfestival wrote:
| You ahole!
| dbtc wrote:
| Breath out and then try to relax and just observe; see if you
| can notice right when the impulse to inhale kicks in (and then
| let it do its thing). Repeat.
|
| See if you can notice where in your body feel that impulse.
|
| This is meditation.
| bradley13 wrote:
| Including asymmetry between the nostrils brings in physiological
| factors other than breathing, i.e. sinuses, etc..
|
| Still, I can see it. My wife and I are probably equally fit, but
| she breathes much faster than I do. I also notice that I
| sometimes don't take a breath (or feel any need to) for several
| seconds, if I'm being sedentary.
| meindnoch wrote:
| >I also notice that I sometimes don't take a breath (or feel
| any need to) for several seconds, if I'm being sedentary.
|
| Normal adult breathing rate is 12-20 per minute. So by the
| pigeonhole principle, if you _don 't_ pause breathing for
| several seconds when idle, then you're breathing too fast than
| what's considered normal. Your wife is hyperventilating, which
| could be a sign of stress, or a compensatory reaction to
| metabolic acidosis.
| dpassens wrote:
| Or you could take long breaths. 20 breaths per minute is only
| four seconds per breath which doesn't seem terribly long if
| it's both in- and out-breath.
| tbrownaw wrote:
| > _When 42 of the participants came back to the laboratory weeks,
| months and even two years later, to take part in another 24-hour
| measurement, the trained algorithm could identify them from their
| breath patterns. Data from periods when the participants were
| awake gave more accurate results than did those from sleeping
| periods, but when the researchers used a 100-parameter
| characterization of a full data set instead of one using 24
| parameters, they could pick individuals out with 96.8% accuracy._
|
| The correctly identified .968x42=40.696 of the participants.
|
| Also any standard-ish physical activity that comes with
| instructions usually includes breathing in those instructions. So
| I would expect results to vary substantially depending on where
| they found the study participants.
| ortusdux wrote:
| Previous: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44262799
| canadiantim wrote:
| This is brilliant. Could definitely use this for a very low-cost
| diagnostic tool. It's like reading someone's pulse, but through
| their breath.
| amelius wrote:
| Unfortunately this can't be measured on a smartwatch.
| genewitch wrote:
| Amazfit claim to monitor sleep breathing, and seem fairly
| accurate based on my observations (n=2)
| amelius wrote:
| Ok, but I want to measure during work.
| guzik wrote:
| Are you comfortable with chest straps?
| BLKNSLVR wrote:
| This is probably more 'voice' than breathing, but when I'm in the
| toilet cubicle at work I try to identify anyone who may be next
| door by the sound of their breathing.
|
| I rarely get to confirm whether I'm right or wrong, but everyone
| sounds slightly different.
| bilekas wrote:
| As someone with bathroom stage fright from time to time, this
| is terrifying.
| jcims wrote:
| Try plugging your ears. For some reason it works like magic
| for me to get rid of that stage fright.
| veb wrote:
| That makes it worse! Then people can sneak up on you :(
| jcims wrote:
| Try it in the stall. Seriously. It's weirdly effective.
| bilekas wrote:
| Hands free? That's a skill I haven't perfected yet.
| jcims wrote:
| Just do the hula hoop motion.
| matthewwolfe wrote:
| This is the real reason why people like remote work.
| Aachen wrote:
| This wasn't a reason for me until reading this is even a
| thing. I hadn't realised someone would be listening this
| closely... but no thoughtcrime, so I guess to each their own.
| What I don't know doesn't hurt me, just don't tell me such
| thoughts...
| chairmansteve wrote:
| Especially in America, where public toilet privacy is not a
| thing.
| sunrunner wrote:
| The only time I ever truly felt comfortable in an office
| environment, and now that's been ruined.
|
| "Mark? Is that you?"
|
| "...Tim?"
|
| "Yeah, any update on the report?"
|
| "..."
|
| "OK, no problem buddy"
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| And this is why I have absolutely no reservations about going
| loud in the stall.
| thenewwazoo wrote:
| Neato. I bet this could be trained to identify/differentiate
| people based on mmWave sensors, which can reliably detect
| breathing and muscle movements.
| macawfish wrote:
| There are dozens if not hundreds of papers on exactly this
| topic :)
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| Ah good, retailers will figure out a way to work this into their
| camera processing software! Just like gait tracking can help ID
| somebody if they're wearing a mask.
| pchew wrote:
| Pebble in the shoe, pebble in the nostril.
| reginald78 wrote:
| I know masks and ICP makeup were suggested as anti face
| recognition tools. Did anyone actually test pebble in the
| shoe? I would have thought clothing to hide the gait would be
| the answer, burkas or JNCO jeans.
| analog31 wrote:
| My breathing is probably influenced by what song is going through
| my head at any given moment.
| 11235813213455 wrote:
| Mine is silent, I find it gross when you can hear someone's
| breath, and hopefully sane (I hate cigarette smokers breathe, it
| still smells like death)
| daveguy wrote:
| > Mine is silent, I find it gross when you can hear someone's
| breath...
|
| Hate to break it to you, but you're in for an upsetting aging
| process.
|
| Also, your breath already isn't silent. Your brain attenuates
| the expected sounds, and our ears aren't nearly as sensitive as
| some microphones, especially microphone arrays.
| go_prodev wrote:
| Hold my CPAP
|
| Here's a fun fact, the CPAP machine lowers my Heart Rate
| Variability. HRV spikes when I sleep part of the night without
| it.
| glitchc wrote:
| Not a mystery. This is directly correlated to the CPAP's
| primary goal which is to ensure a steady flow of air in and out
| of your lungs. Without the CPAP, your heart is reacting to
| variations in O2 (inflow) and CO2 (outflow), speeding up and
| slowing down accordingly, including experiencing stress during
| periods where the airway is completely obstructed.
| fudged71 wrote:
| I think that's backwards, higher HRV is better?
| tinyhouse wrote:
| Can anyone share a link that doesn't require login?
| tantalor wrote:
| > custom, wearable device that records airflow through each of a
| person's nostrils
|
| Yeah, it turns out if you _can strap a device to somebody_ then
| wow you can identify them.
|
| This is interesting, but not a big surprise!
|
| Now if they can do this from an external passive sensor like a
| camera or microphone, then yeah that would be a neat result.
| crusty wrote:
| I thought those millimeter wave sensors that are used in newer
| home automation devices to detect when people are in an
| observable area have enough resolution to detect the
| displacement of the chest during breathing, which would suggest
| that the tech you fear is already here, it's just not
| configured to record and analyze the data YET.
| CraigJPerry wrote:
| Yeah they can have enough resolution to observe your pulse:
|
| https://ris.utwente.nl/ws/portalfiles/portal/359293305/2311..
| ..
| meindnoch wrote:
| True privacy freaks use a diaphragm pacemaker hooked to a CSPRNG
| to securely randomize their breathing pattern in public.
|
| Also, make sure to use a different CSPRNG for your gait
| randomizer, to avoid entropy starvation.
| iwontberude wrote:
| We need a way to get quantum entangled particles delivered to
| various parts of our bodies for ultimate privacy guarantees.
| reginald78 wrote:
| Random pattern would make you stick out, particularly when
| everyone else in the area has identifiable breathing patterns.
| You'll want to set your diaphragm pacemaker to mimic the most
| common breathing pattern, probably based on a sample of
| breathing patterns from your geographical area.
| tetris11 wrote:
| Some people would pay good money to have the breath profile
| of an athlete, in order to qualify them for only the best of
| careers.
| m463 wrote:
| Well, you'd get turned away at all-you-can-eat buffets.
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| I expect Champion Eaters have the breath-holding patterns
| of free divers.
|
| Epiglottigeal toggling is an esophageal inefficiency.
| zeristor wrote:
| > Epiglottigeal toggling is an esophageal inefficiency.
|
| A tongue twister for the age!
| jcims wrote:
| Just carry a chihuahua around in a backpack. Problem solved!
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| Breathe without rhythm
|
| And you won't attract the worm
| guzik wrote:
| I might be missing something, but is there any _practical_ value
| in this line of research beyond academic curiosity? I've stumbled
| across this article a few times already, and still can't quite
| find the real-world application where you'd want to identify
| someone just by their breathing pattern (especially considering
| that from the article that "you need to be equipped with a nasal
| cannula"). Maybe I'm being dense?
| IshKebab wrote:
| I think it's just out of interest. There doesn't necessarily
| need to be a practical application.
| etskinner wrote:
| If you can figure out a way to do without the nasal cannula,
| the possibilities are huge. Maybe a good IR camera could look
| at the air coming out of your nose and determine the velocity.
| Seems like it's actually already a thing [1].
|
| Cynically, you could use it for surveillance, similar to how
| they do face recognition or temperature scanning in airports.
|
| The flip side of the coin is that it could be used for better
| authentication or medical purposes. Maybe your oxygen tank
| could realize you're breathing different than usual to warn you
| that you might be having a seizure, stroke, or heart attack. Or
| maybe we'd have "breathe to sign in" similar to FaceID
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/shorts/J_EBMhrinNc
| rebolek wrote:
| "you need to be equipped with a nasal cannula" now. In few
| years, who knows. And then, spies.
| b0a04gl wrote:
| 96.8% accuracy sounds impressive until you realise they skipped
| the REM phase like it's a bug report. "user unpredictable when
| dreaming, exclude from dataset." also love how your breath is now
| a biometric. imagine getting locked out of your account because
| you had a cold or ran up stairs. future's looking wheezy
| Aachen wrote:
| > imagine getting locked out of your account because you had a
| cold or ran up stairs. future's looking wheezy
|
| This is me trying to use our fucking touchscreen stove
|
| Landlord's kitchen, I didn't know this was even an option until
| moving in here or I'd have asked some questions about wet
| hands. I'd not have thought to ask about cold hands, like when
| I held a freezer product for a minute, though
|
| I'd think it a mere annoyance if there was a physical OFF
| button. There is not. You can go to the cellar and trip the
| breaker I guess? Otherwise, you better have reasonably warm and
| dry fingers (it can deal with a bit of moisture and chill, but
| has limits similar to trying to use a phone in the rain)
|
| Gotta say it looks sleek though, when it's free of fingerprints
| and other usage marks
|
| I love technology
| encom wrote:
| Your post triggered a deep seething hatred in me of stoves
| with touch _anything_. Last place I lived (rented) was a
| stove with touch buttons on the stove top, which was itself a
| glass surface. Never mind that it beeped annoyingly on every
| input. Operating it with wet hands was impossible. A common
| situation in a kitchen. But the worst was that, if anything
| boiled over, the touch buttons went bananas, and usually
| ended up shutting everything off. Adding further annoyance
| and inconvenience to the situation. Because I had limited
| countertop space, I often wanted to use the stove as a
| working surface (when not in use, obviously), but it had some
| godforsaken detector that registered when something was put
| on top of (or near) the buttons (capacitive or not), and it
| would continuously beep until you moved it. I mean I kind of
| get it as a safety feature, but on the other hand I also want
| to override the machine, tell it to fuck off because I 'm in
| control of the situation, and we wouldn't even have this
| problem in the first place, if it wasn't for this touch
| garbage.
|
| Whoever designed that thing should be fed feet first into a
| wood chipper.
| dbtc wrote:
| Try using a fruit?
| qwertox wrote:
| You could strap a band with a strong magnet around your tummy and
| have an IMU sensor below your mattress. It was a project I
| started and sampled it at 1 Hz, multisampled with min/max/avg,
| but I never did anything with the data.
|
| Looking at the real-time stream the breathing was noticeable, at
| 2Hz it would probably be very useful, if you have the dedication
| to write the tools to analyze the data.
|
| I was thinking about doing this with a fanny pack where I put the
| sensor and battery pack in the fanny pack and a strong magnet at
| the opposite side of the strip in order to measure my breathing
| frequency during excercising.
| jackschultz wrote:
| I've been curious about what the best way to recording
| breathing rates with wearables would be. Thought was a chest
| strap with springs to measure tension with higher tension being
| air in lungs. But you're talking about a different way. How
| does the magnet work to get rates? I'd want something that can
| get rates and volumes from mouth vs nasal and also tell which
| vent the air in coming into the lungs from. Probably a case of
| how much intrusion you want vs how intricate and correct the
| data is.
| CrimsonCape wrote:
| I believe that I and everyone "vibrate at a certain frequency"
| which I define loosely as the qualitative electrical/emotional
| impulses that drive daily mood and physiology. Like the baseline
| is a smooth sine wave of calmness. Some people seem agitated all
| the time, and I guarantee their frequency is vibrating at a
| higher hertz.
|
| Driving home from work, I get at least 2-3 "shocks" when other
| drivers cause close calls. I flinch, get a surge of adrenaline,
| and have to breathe to calm down. My sine wave is disturbed.
| Let's say a driver swerved close to my vehicle and I flinch and
| swerve away.
|
| The next day, a driver drifts close and I instinctively get a
| shock, flinch, and swerve away. I didn't intend to be jumpy and
| nervous, but apparently my electrical system is still "echoing"
| from the day before.
|
| At work, I experience anxiety, and it's a "softer" shock, but the
| long term result is nervousness, twitching, holding my breath in
| anticipation (of an attack that never comes), feelings of dread.
|
| People talk about fixing upset emotional states and psychology,
| but in thinking about this, I characterize my own problems as
| needing my electrical system tuned-up.
|
| How often did a farmer 1000 years ago get adrenaline dumps from
| fast-twitch motor neurons as he zoomed 80mph down the highway?
| And yet now it's literally all day. Vehicle noise at 4am, jump
| awake. Phone rings, jump and flinch. Driving, etc.
|
| I don't think we look often enough at the physiology of stress
| from the perspective of the electrical signals generated by the
| nervous system. It seems like all kinds of problems come from it.
| To the article's point, I know my breathing has been affected
| from stress and tensions. I don't think i'm particularly
| unhealthy, so I think a lot of people could relate to feeling
| "not-unhealthy" but also really twitchy and disturbed from stress
| and tension.
|
| In my thinking about this, fitness and health come from creating
| the electrical impulses in a steady, predictable way (i.e.
| walking, lifting) such that the electrical pathway can remember
| it's baseline frequency and "strengthen" the good frequency. And
| hopefully smooth-out the peaks and valleys of the signal
| interruptions caused by stresses.
| dbtc wrote:
| I wonder if one were to use e.g. a gardening metaphor to
| conceptualize their perceived inner state, rather than an
| electricity metaphor, all things being otherwise the same,
| would their thoughts calm down and nervousness subside?
|
| This is a hypothesis.
|
| It might be true that electrical signals and magnetic
| frequencies define something fundamental about our physical
| reality, but don't underestimate utilitarian power of
| imagination and metaphor.
|
| Think about trees, feel better.
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