[HN Gopher] Amazon Signs 141,000 Square Foot Silicon Valley We W...
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       Amazon Signs 141,000 Square Foot Silicon Valley We Work Lease Amid
       RTO Mandate
        
       Author : randycupertino
       Score  : 11 points
       Date   : 2025-06-16 16:51 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (finance.yahoo.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (finance.yahoo.com)
        
       | nopelynopington wrote:
       | Why though. Are all these companies doing RTO because they
       | believe it's more productive?
        
         | fred_is_fred wrote:
         | Because people quitting is cheaper than a layoff. It's a tried
         | and true method.
        
           | pqtyw wrote:
           | Except you can pick who to fire and the people leaving
           | because they have better options might be slightly more
           | valuable. Then again trusting or upper or middle management
           | to get that right (outside of small/medium companies) is
           | impossible.
        
             | op00to wrote:
             | Amazon doesn't need the best. They need the desperate, the
             | good enough with no better options. Those you can abuse and
             | squeeze.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | They wouldn't be rushing to take back facilities and
         | electricity costs that had been offloaded to employees if they
         | didn't think it was a net benefit.
         | 
         | Local commercial real estate markets aren't holding the reins
         | of the tech industry.
        
           | skyyler wrote:
           | It seems like RTO isn't specific to the tech industry.
           | 
           | It also seems like most publicly traded companies have
           | instituted some form of RTO by now.
           | 
           | I'm fairly certain that many entities that hold large amounts
           | of commercial real estate also own large amounts of stock in
           | companies that are doing RTO.
           | 
           | It's not the most far-fetched conspiracy theory.
        
             | sokoloff wrote:
             | If Amazon (or some other company) thought they were going
             | to be more profitable and more successful working remotely,
             | I don't think the threat is credible of some commercial
             | property owning shareholders deciding to further
             | underperform the market by dumping shares unless that
             | company made the decision to underperform by forcing RTO.
             | 
             | "If you want to threaten me that you'll underperform unless
             | I do, be my guest..."
             | 
             | I suspect that different companies could have different
             | motivations (including potentially forcing resignations),
             | but it strains credibility for me that it's to answer to
             | shareholders in conflict with what they think will make
             | them successful.
        
               | skyyler wrote:
               | >it strains credibility for me that it's to answer to
               | shareholders in conflict with what they think will make
               | them successful
               | 
               | I'm not so sure. I don't think that it's exactly the most
               | probably scenario, but I can absolutely see it being a
               | factor. I don't think there's some commercial real estate
               | mogul on every F500 board demanding RTO, reality is way
               | more complicated than that.
        
               | pqtyw wrote:
               | Maybe not, but if you have signed a massively expensive
               | long-term lease and end up keeping the offices empty your
               | investor will start looking cross at you. Of course
               | that's more of a Covid era thing.
        
               | pqtyw wrote:
               | > If Amazon (or some other company) thought they were
               | going
               | 
               | This presumes that the company is fully capable of
               | measuring and comparing the utility between RTO and
               | working from home. That might be the case or it might be
               | mainly due to management culture and other indirect
               | factors but neither is self evident.
               | 
               | Major corporations are almost by definition have massive
               | amounts of bloat and inefficiency to one degree or
               | another and are carried (especially tech companies) by
               | certain products/teams/departments the rest are often
               | there only for the ride (short to medium term at least
               | and who has time for any "long-term" development these
               | days?). To be clear, I don't think this has that much to
               | do with people who are "lazy" or hard workers (you can
               | put in extreme amounts of effort into something that
               | leads nowhere).
               | 
               | Anyway, not particularly pro or anti-RTO but I just find
               | it bizarre that we usually assume that decisions making
               | in large companies are always logical, rational and
               | quantifiable and are not made to benefit specific
               | subgroups or individuals in one way or another.
        
               | sokoloff wrote:
               | I don't presume that they are fully capable of measuring
               | and comparing the utility between RTO and WFH.
               | 
               | I think they're basing the decision based on 5-15%
               | data/measurement and 85-95% beliefs and judgment. I don't
               | know how you'd possibly carefully and precisely measure
               | something as multi-faceted as the difference between the
               | two modes of working, especially when the one pre/post
               | test you have data on was heavily influenced by COVID,
               | ZIRP, massive stimulus, massive disruptions to economic
               | consumption patterns and working patterns, but you still
               | have to decide where to position yourself between
               | "working the way we did in Dec 2019" and "working the way
               | we did in April 2020 or June 2021".
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _It also seems like most publicly traded companies have
             | instituted some form of RTO by now_
             | 
             | So have plenty of private companies.
             | 
             | > _It 's not the most far-fetched conspiracy theory_
             | 
             | It really is. (With unusual prevalence in the San Francisco
             | Bay Area.) You're talking about some of the most powerful
             | and notoriously-independent companies on the planet
             | kowtowing to invisible shareholder pressure.
        
         | qq66 wrote:
         | Yes, for the company's definition of productivity.
        
         | rxtexit wrote:
         | I am full remote for a very small, non-software business but I
         | think even for us we are probably losing productivity vs the
         | office.
         | 
         | I think child care is a big driver but no one can come out and
         | say this.
         | 
         | I am more productive remote but I wouldn't be if I was also
         | baby sitting a 5 year old while working. A big reason I am more
         | productive is living alone and not being distracted.
         | 
         | A company can't demand a remote worker pay for child care so
         | the kid isn't at home like in an office.
         | 
         | I also think my increase in productivity doesn't offset the
         | office slackers who are doing basically nothing at home. I
         | think the office can squeeze some productivity out of the
         | slackers while it is a lost cause remote.
         | 
         | In the aggregate, I think for most companies it has to be a net
         | loss of productivity to be 100% remote.
         | 
         | While it is a huge increase in my general well being and
         | happiness, the highly productive workers are going to be highly
         | productive either way and not that much more productive remote.
         | It is everyone else that causes remote to not work as well at
         | the margin. Then if a competitor does RTO, the company almost
         | has to hedge and RTO as well.
        
       | x0x0 wrote:
       | Oh man. Wework is the worst office I've ever worked in.
       | 
       | Those glass walls and hardwood floors are great to tour. Working
       | in them though, w/o a single bit of sound-deadening anything
       | gives you a new appreciation for cubicles and ugly carpet that
       | actually absorbs sound.
       | 
       | Just wait until a woman wears heels and you can hear "clack clack
       | clack" echoing up the straight hallways for 500 feet.
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | nah, it's great! we all get to sit at the same desk with noise
         | cancelling headphones on in the same meeting, and for added
         | bonus - if someone forgets to turn voice isolation mode on you
         | get to hear yourself with a one second delay which makes it
         | really hard to talk..
         | 
         | and a nice commute either side of the workday because who
         | really wants to spend time with their kids during the week
         | anyway?
         | 
         | right? right?
        
       | unwind wrote:
       | For the more metric-fluent among us, that's about 13,100 square
       | meters. Didn't immediately see how many employees are affected,
       | though.
        
       | rkagerer wrote:
       | Why WeWork? Why wouldn't they buy a building or lease from a
       | traditional outfit?
        
         | plun9 wrote:
         | Frugality
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | I posit the desired first order effect isn't the nebulous
         | benefits of RTO, but rather, induce another culling in the vein
         | the bigs have been doing since 2023. This one's voluntary,
         | doesn't need a buyout, and you net save on leasing if you get a
         | temporary space that'll fit 100%.
         | 
         | Then expect 10% leave due to RTO, another 10% are managed out,
         | or leave of their own accord (FAmazonMG target these days is at
         | least 5% / year perf firings)
         | 
         | Now you can wait out a year and find out if the leaving due to
         | RTO # is 5% or 30%, and defer a long term lease until you have
         | enough info to rightsize it.
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-16 23:02 UTC)