[HN Gopher] A dark adtech empire fed by fake CAPTCHAs
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A dark adtech empire fed by fake CAPTCHAs
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 219 points
       Date   : 2025-06-12 22:15 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (krebsonsecurity.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (krebsonsecurity.com)
        
       | preinheimer wrote:
       | I think the "prove you're human by hitting the button" attack is
       | pretty clever.
       | 
       | With the range of different ways captchas are presented today I
       | can see it getting a good % of folks.
        
         | a2128 wrote:
         | It's our own fault for making the internet such a confusing
         | Kafkaesque maze. Click this button, click that button, sign in
         | to confirm you're not a bot, select the traffic signs, select
         | the items that a rat would not eat, solve this maze to prove
         | you're a human, type out the numbers hidden in these demonic
         | noises, provide your phone number to prove you're real, compute
         | proof-of-work, download this browser if you're having issues...
         | The line between fraudster and modern tech company is honestly
         | not clear anymore and especially not for people who don't care
         | much about tech and just want to access something
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | Evolution is messy and guided by random occurrences.
           | 
           | Early in the internet days I had ran an open SMTP server for
           | a few years before it was used as a spam relay. The web
           | browser didn't have a security model. Online shopping was
           | going up to a site, writing what you wanted on paper, then
           | mailing off a money order.
           | 
           | Then both fraud and useful things like actual online shopping
           | started happening while the size of the web exploded. Masses
           | of people with no technical capability were getting online.
           | And that's before we got to the age of social media and
           | massive data collection.
           | 
           | Simply put we didn't make the 'web' part of the internet,
           | some people tossed it out as a child and it's been a tooth
           | and nail fight for survival ever since, patching itself up
           | one vuln at a time.
        
             | permo-w wrote:
             | never mind the fact that half these captchas are just
             | excuses for orgs to sneakily extract some reinforcement
             | learning data from you. last time I tried to sign into my
             | microsoft account it made me do 6 captchas. SIX. not six
             | like I failed 1 captcha six times, six like each captcha
             | was iteratively marked i/6
        
           | Mtinie wrote:
           | ...but don't click _this_ button.
        
           | miki123211 wrote:
           | It's not just the captchas either, the "this GPS app needs
           | access to your location" or "this photo taking app wants
           | access to your camera" style pop-ups don't help either.
           | 
           | If you learn once that clicking "deny" in a notification pop-
           | up means your phone doesn't ring when your grandson calls you
           | on Whats App, you won't be clicking "Deny" in those pop ups
           | any more.
           | 
           | I genuinely don't know how to solve that problem, and I
           | definitely see non-technical family members struggle with it.
        
             | Sophira wrote:
             | The silly thing is, it was known before all these
             | permission pop-ups were created that users will simply
             | press "Yes", "OK", "Allow", "Agree", etc., on every
             | dialogue they see simply in order to get rid of it. Many
             | people -maybe even most people? - just see them as
             | needlessly getting in the way of where they actually want
             | to be.
             | 
             | So, given that we knew that, why the hell did we create
             | more?
        
               | const_cast wrote:
               | Because there's no good alternatives IMO.
               | 
               | Auto-deny leads to a lot of unexpected and broken
               | behavior, and most users aren't going to know where to go
               | to enable that type of stuff.
               | 
               | But auto-enable is even worse: because malicious actors
               | can get permissions they shouldn't. In fact, even with
               | mainstream applications, most of the permissions they ask
               | for they don't need to operate - they're just used for
               | tracking and data exfiltration.
               | 
               | So ask every time has been the solution and it works
               | okay. iOS actually does a good job with this. For
               | suspicious permissions, such as accurate location data
               | all the time, it periodically re-prompts. It's annoying,
               | but it can catch a lot of suspect behavior. There's
               | shockingly little apps that need your exact location when
               | the app isn't open.
        
       | LegionMammal978 wrote:
       | > According to Qurium, TacoLoco is a traffic monetization network
       | that uses deceptive tactics to trick Internet users into enabling
       | "push notifications," a cross-platform browser standard that
       | allows websites to show pop-up messages which appear outside of
       | the browser.
       | 
       | An elderly relative of mine was hit by this a couple years back:
       | his computer's desktop was constantly being spammed with messages
       | on startup, and there was no simple way to turn them all off. It
       | turned out that they were all notifications from web workers that
       | he'd inadvertently allowed at some point prior. (I set his
       | browser to auto-deny notifications so it wouldn't happen again.)
        
         | creeble wrote:
         | Elderly neighbor for me. Quite insipid; it took me a few
         | minutes to realize that they were browser-based when I first
         | got to the computer.
        
         | KevinGlass wrote:
         | I honestly think desktop notifications in their current form
         | are one of the worst features of the modern web. Sure it's nice
         | to get an email alert but on my experience there's probably a
         | thousand confused old people getting spammed for each person
         | that intentionally enabled it.
         | 
         | What's worse is they look like native OS alerts (on Windows) so
         | when one says "SECURYIRT ALERT!! CALL NOW" it's that much more
         | effective at getting people on the phone with scammers.
        
           | cortesoft wrote:
           | So many sites ask for permission to send notifications that
           | have zero reason to do so. Why would I want push
           | notifications from a shopping or news site?
        
             | tim-- wrote:
             | Honestly, push notifications from a news site arguably is
             | one of the few sites that I see having a reason to send
             | push notifications.
             | 
             | Communication platforms; messaging apps (Slack, Discord
             | etc); email sites (gmail and co.) also make sense.
             | Financial platforms (banks, Stripe etc)
             | 
             | Once you start getting out of these two categories, then
             | yeah, it gets silly. No way should an airline website even
             | be allowed to ask to send push notifications.
             | 
             | Google does have a way for Chrome users to not show the
             | notification window (https://yespo.io/blog/google-chrome-
             | will-now-block-abusive-b...) by default
             | (https://support.google.com/webtools/answer/9799829?hl=en)
             | but I really wish that this was flipped, so that Google
             | would first need to approve sites to use notifications,
             | similar to the Public Suffix List.
        
               | vanviegen wrote:
               | > No way should an airline website even be allowed to ask
               | to send push notifications.
               | 
               | Your flight is delayed/now boarding/etc?
        
               | dmonitor wrote:
               | I'm rarely at a computer in the airport without my phone
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | I would prefer to know about a delayed flight before I
               | get to the airport.
               | 
               | Your phone needs a web browser or an app. An app for
               | every airline you ever use? You already have a web
               | browser.
               | 
               | They could SMS but its more expensive to send, often even
               | more so for customers on roaming to receive.
               | 
               | Nothing else is universal.
               | 
               | I think there are much better possible solutions. An open
               | notification standard or reasonable pricing of bulk
               | sending SMS would do it.
        
               | codingminds wrote:
               | We still have eMail in place. If they don't want to spend
               | money on an SMS they can send an eMail.
               | 
               | If browser notification permissions would have a TTL, I'd
               | might considering it. But until this happens I won't
               | allow anyone to send me browser notifications. And even
               | then I'd be very picky.
        
               | mr_mitm wrote:
               | Emails have essentially become notifications anyway. All
               | my emails are things like "your booking has been
               | confirmed", "your package has been shipped", "your
               | invoice is ready for download", "a login from a new
               | device happened", "your flight is delayed", etc.
        
               | PaulHoule wrote:
               | Emails have a mature ecosystem. We've been getting spam
               | and scam emails since 1994, we have tools for dealing
               | with it.
        
               | notpushkin wrote:
               | > An app for every airline you ever use? You already have
               | a web browser.
               | 
               | And yet I'm sure airlines will push you towards the app
               | every time!
        
               | zeta0134 wrote:
               | What do you mean nothing else is universal? I can't book
               | a flight without a phone number and an email address, and
               | they usually send emails. My phone is set to do
               | notifications when I get one of those. Why is this
               | solution bad? Any network situation that causes both SMS
               | and email to fail certainly isn't going to magically
               | deliver a push notification from a browser.
        
               | Sophira wrote:
               | > I would prefer to know about a delayed flight before I
               | get to the airport.
               | 
               | Generally, the recommendation is that you get to the
               | airport at least two hours before your flight departs.
               | Ideally, you shouldn't be rushing to try to get your
               | plane.
               | 
               | Granted, the world has changed since that was first a
               | recommendation, but even in today's connected world, it's
               | still a good idea to get there two hours before
               | departure, in my experience.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | > Generally, the recommendation is that you get to the
               | airport at least two hours before your flight departs.
               | 
               | A lot of delays are known much earlier than that. For
               | example if a flight gets seriously delayed taking off and
               | the plane is going to turn round and return, then the
               | return flight will be delayed.
               | 
               | In any case, once at the airport delays will be announced
               | and shown on screens. Once you get there you do not need
               | phone notifications.
        
               | account42 wrote:
               | Do you really need a reminder that the flight is
               | boarding?
        
               | devilbunny wrote:
               | You do if your goal is to chill out in the lounge until
               | that point.
        
               | evilduck wrote:
               | The native apps for my phone aren't really reliable
               | enough at letting me know about delays or gate changes, I
               | don't expect a web push notification to be any better at
               | something that's already untrustworthy, especially on a
               | system that lacks a cellular modem to stay online all the
               | time. Even if they did work perfectly and could be
               | trusted to serve that purpose, no company would only send
               | status updates about your flight in the long term,
               | they're unable to restrain themselves and will view it as
               | an advertising avenue just like they do with phone apps.
        
               | vanviegen wrote:
               | My guess is it would be just as (un)reliable as an app.
               | 
               | Many airlines now more or less force you to install their
               | bespoke apps, which could have just as well been
               | websites, just to board their planes. I'm less than happy
               | to install them.
        
               | Propelloni wrote:
               | See, that's just the point. You see a need for that. I'd
               | never enable push notifications from a news site, I don't
               | need to know NOW that some pupil shot 17 teachers and
               | pupils in the elementary school around the corner. There
               | is nothing I could do anyway. I'm extremely unlikely to
               | enable notifications from async messaging because, you
               | know, they are async. If it's urgent, come over to my
               | desk or use your phone to call me.
               | 
               | Financial data or travel info is something I'm actively
               | watching, when I travel, just like car traffic.
               | Otherwise, why would I need to know? That's a good
               | question to ask anyway anytime you come across an inbox.
               | I have been in management really long now and designing
               | your information flow strategically is crucial to being
               | effective.
        
               | miki123211 wrote:
               | If I trusted airlines to only send me notifications about
               | gate changes, failed payments, delayed flights, maaaybe
               | low prices on route-date combinations I previously
               | expressed interest in, I'd give them notification
               | permissions. I definitely don't trust them to do that,
               | though.
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | See also: Uber and Uber Eats.
               | 
               | It seems that companies like this can't _help_ but abuse
               | the permissions I grant them, so the result is that they
               | don 't get any permissions at all.
        
             | ryukoposting wrote:
             | I wonder how many people's browsers get push notifications
             | from Temu, or Amazon.
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | Same reason you subscribe to their newsletters. To get
             | discounts.
             | 
             | I don't understand why people would want that, but neither
             | do I understand the people who actually enter their email
             | address in those "subscribe to my newsletter" popovers.
        
           | codedokode wrote:
           | Instead of desktop notifications web apps should use pinned
           | tabs and show a badge in the tab header.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | That's more a browser implementation issue though. Browser
             | could offer that as a choice for how to handle
             | notifications, on a per-website basis.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | I feel like the web would be a better place if "allow
           | notifications" popups were only allowed for PWAs the user
           | already installed. I.e. they have to manually interact with
           | the page and then click the prompt acknowledging they want to
           | install the site as an application on their computer before
           | the site can start popping up windows from the browser asking
           | for notification permissions.
           | 
           | It's not that there are 0 use cases where it could possibly
           | be convenient to get notifications from a plain site but,
           | like you said with the email example, 95% of the legitimate
           | use cases are probably better modeled as an app anyways.
        
             | PaulHoule wrote:
             | What's "progressive" about installing software?
             | 
             | It's always saddened me that people failed to understand
             | the web platform, and never more so than today when that
             | platform could be on the verge of extinction.
             | 
             | Young people don't remember this: in the 1990s if a big
             | corporation wanted to make a 1-line change to an
             | application deployed to a fleet of desktops they'd have to
             | _update every single machine_ and to do so they 'd probably
             | have to hire at least 1 FTE and probably more for installer
             | engineering and other makework.
             | 
             | With the web it is often                  git pull
             | 
             | on the server and _you 're done!_
             | 
             | As it is I can find web sites with search, links from other
             | sites, bookmarks and history. If you "install" applications
             | you just clutter up your desktop with 300 icons for
             | applications you don't really use which makes it hard to
             | find the 2-3 that you really use.
        
         | _Algernon_ wrote:
         | One of the first settings I change in any new browser is to
         | forbid notification requests from all pages, and disable
         | dom.beforeUnload (stops websites being able to prompt to
         | confirm if I want to close the tab). Those functionalities are
         | probably the most abused browser functionalities and definitely
         | shouldn't be enabled by default (or if so only for a whitelist
         | of sites).
        
           | privatelypublic wrote:
           | How do you do this? I'm looking to do it for the clipboard
           | API. Browsers should be able to block copy and paste.
        
             | AugustoCAS wrote:
             | A quick google shows this for FF (taken from a thread in
             | StackOverflow):
             | 
             | > In Firefox you can completely disable beforeunload events
             | by setting dom.disable_beforeunload to true in
             | about:config. Extensions may be needed for other browsers.
             | 
             | A word of caution: I'm not 100% sure, but I wonder if some
             | web collaboration tools might use this to ensure data has
             | been synced with a server.
        
               | LadyCailin wrote:
               | It surely has a lot of legitimate uses, even if it is
               | primarily abused. I've used it before to do various
               | cleanup tasks, to have a more timely "user disconnected"
               | event, rather than waiting on some timeout to occur
               | server side.
               | 
               | Having said that, it should never be the end of the world
               | to disable, sites should never have data loss due to this
               | event missing, because if so, they already have a data
               | loss problem when for instance the power goes out.
        
               | dizhn wrote:
               | I am not sure if this is implemented using this
               | functionality but when I am on a console session on
               | proxmox and hit ctrl+w due to muscle memory, it's nice to
               | have a warning telling me the tab will be closed. Same
               | with all kinds of remote access tools. One legit use case
               | I can think of.
        
             | _Algernon_ wrote:
             | In firefox: about:config -> dom.disable_beforeunload=true
             | 
             | For copy-paste: dom.event.clipboardevents.enabled=false I
             | would guess.
        
         | mapt wrote:
         | The entire idea of push notifications on browsers was obviously
         | toxic from the start, especially the privileged status "Do you
         | want to enable notifications?" popups had.
         | 
         | I think the idea comes from the 2010's hype about Phone-Ifying
         | The Desktop. Someone clearly thought they were recreating the
         | Google Reader / RSS ecosystem (Mozilla had RSS in the browser
         | in a flop)... but everyone else was just enthusiastic about
         | dark patterns that were viable in mobile apps that didn't exist
         | in a desktop browser.
        
           | hsbauauvhabzb wrote:
           | IMO random websites prompting to access your location data is
           | far more problematic
        
             | riddlemethat wrote:
             | DocuSign tracks your location when you sign a document
             | unless you disable it in the browser. Learned that a few
             | years ago.
        
             | mtillman wrote:
             | The biggest problem there is that several browsers don't
             | want to remember your response of "No" for more than one
             | day. They want you to be constantly tracked. I'd like to be
             | able to tell all browsers, never track my location or send
             | me a notification from any website but that's not what they
             | want. Orion by Kagi is a breath of fresh air in this
             | department.
        
           | johnmaguire wrote:
           | I think notifications came about as part of Progressive Web
           | Apps (PWA).
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | I use this feature all the time and I love it. Not having to
           | install dozens of apps just to see the occasional
           | notification is a dream come true.
           | 
           | The way it's trivial for browsers to fake OS notifications on
           | some platforms is a clear design flaw, though. I get the need
           | for it (PWAs and such) but unless the website sending a
           | notification is a PWA, there's no need for a notification to
           | be that ambiguous.
           | 
           | The current system, where Chrome (the only browser that
           | matters) collects information about websites and only shows
           | the permission popup on some websites has mostly killed
           | useful notification support for a lot of websites.
        
             | ninkendo wrote:
             | I can think of exactly two use cases for web browser push
             | notifications:
             | 
             | - Web-based email
             | 
             | - Web-based chat
             | 
             | That's it. Every other use case seems to be solving a
             | "them" problem (how do we increase engagement?) and not a
             | "me" problem.
             | 
             |  _Even if_ I wanted to hear about updates from a website
             | (and I never do), I could sign up for emails. And If I
             | don't trust a website with my email, I certainly don't
             | trust them with sending me push notifications.
             | 
             | In fact, let me take chat apps off that list, because if I
             | don't have the webapp open in a browser window, the chat
             | app should have the option to just email me about someone
             | trying to message me (and ideally, letting the other party
             | know I'm unavailable and letting them choose whether to
             | send me the email.) So no, really just email and that's it.
             | 
             | I'm super curious what your use cases are if you use web-
             | based push notifications "all the time".
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | Youtube uses it well. You can get notifications when
               | people upload videos or to recommend you suggested videos
               | you may like. Sure engagement increases, but that is
               | because I'm watching videos that I find entertaining.
               | It's a win win for YouTube and the users.
        
               | ninkendo wrote:
               | I can see that being useful if it's important to you to
               | start watching someone's videos within minutes of them
               | posting it, but I've never understood why that's
               | desirable for anyone.
               | 
               | To me, I watch YouTube when I have some time to do so and
               | make the active decision to open the app... _then_ let me
               | know about which of my subscriptions have recent videos.
               | I just can't imagine being in the middle of something
               | else and dropping everything because someone posted a
               | video. But different people are different I guess.
        
           | cyanydeez wrote:
           | Its a progressive webapp feature and would be a necessary
           | tool tobescape Apple and Google stores and hardwarw lockin.
           | Like all tech, hindsight is 20/20 with malicious actors.
        
         | QuantumGood wrote:
         | I have run into this. My notes: Google Chrome (Desktop &
         | Android)
         | 
         | chrome://settings/content/notifications Or Settings > Privacy
         | and security > Site settings > Notifications Under "Default
         | behavior," select: Don't allow sites to send notifications.
         | 
         | ------------------
         | 
         | Mozilla Firefox (Desktop)
         | 
         | Settings > Privacy & Security Scroll to the "Permissions"
         | section, find "Notifications," and click "Settings..."
         | 
         | At the bottom, check: Block new requests asking to allow
         | notifications.
         | 
         | ------------------
         | 
         | Microsoft Edge
         | 
         | Settings > Cookies and site permissions > Notifications Set the
         | default to block all notification requests.
         | 
         | ------------------
         | 
         | Safari (macOS)
         | 
         | Safari > Settings (or Preferences) > Websites tab >
         | Notifications Untick: Allow websites to ask for permission to
         | send notifications
         | 
         | ------------------
         | 
         | Samsung Internet (Android)
         | 
         | Settings > Notifications > Allow or block sites
        
         | PaulHoule wrote:
         | Advocacy for "progressive web apps" always fell flat to me.
         | There are a few reasons, such as web workers being a Rube
         | Goldberg machine when people just wanted the kind of facility
         | to control caches and fetching that Netscape Netcaster had _in
         | 1997_. It was predictable to me that the usage breakdown of
         | push notification was going to be                 50% spam
         | 49% scams        1% other
         | 
         | and now people are just catching up to the obvious.
        
       | username223 wrote:
       | > TacoLoco is a traffic monetization network that uses deceptive
       | tactics to trick Internet users into enabling "push
       | notifications,"
       | 
       | Why is it even possible for hostile code (i.e. JavaScript) to
       | send OS-level notifications? If clicking a link runs untrusted
       | code with layers of legal insulation, that code should run in a
       | very limited sandbox. It's crazy that we're turning the "Open
       | Web" into an ever-expanding attack surface.
        
         | hakfoo wrote:
         | Because people turned browsers into an app platform and users
         | wanted their webmail and chat services to have the same first-
         | class features native clients had.
        
           | username223 wrote:
           | Who wanted their web browser to let hostile programs send
           | notifications and access battery levels, unused fonts, etc.?
           | Ad companies run the web standards bodies, so "people" (i.e.
           | you and me) have to deal with this.
        
             | Xevion wrote:
             | In all fairness, some of these things you've mentioned
             | could be useful. If your battery is low, reprioritize the
             | webapp's functions, lower requests, disable anything not
             | necessary in the moment.
             | 
             | Notifications are just another convenient thing that me and
             | you use every day.
             | 
             | Perhaps these things should be disabled by default, or
             | requested upon being needed, but that's not really your
             | argument it would seem.
        
               | account42 wrote:
               | > In all fairness, some of these things you've mentioned
               | could be useful. If your battery is low, reprioritize the
               | webapp's functions, lower requests, disable anything not
               | necessary in the moment.
               | 
               | This kind of automated perfomance tuning is almost always
               | more annoying than useful.
               | 
               | > Notifications are just another convenient thing that me
               | and you use every day.
               | 
               | Who is "me and you"?
        
               | username223 wrote:
               | "Requested upon being needed" might work if it weren't
               | possible for sites to get around it by probing and
               | popping up their own "yes / ask me again later" dialogs.
               | Have the APIs ask on the first call, with a "yes/no +
               | make answer permanent" dialog, and return fake data if
               | the answer is "no." If people were sufficiently annoyed
               | by constant requests for stuff a basic webpage wouldn't
               | seem to need, the web might become a better place.
               | 
               | But yeah, web browsers basically run arbitrary code
               | written by hostile companies, with layers of indirection
               | to confuse accountability. In that environment, you have
               | to weigh "nice to have" against "could be abused," and
               | err on the side of caution.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | Because it's very useful.
         | 
         | You don't call any OS level API from a website. The browser
         | makes and shapes the notification for you. If the notification
         | cannot be traced back to your browser, blame your browser
         | vendor for their bad design.
         | 
         | That said, no amount of good browser design can protect a
         | computer from people who don't know what they're doing. I
         | recall a recent malware campaign where a similar mechanism was
         | used, but instead of "click this button, go to site settings,
         | click notifications, click allow", it'd show "copy this, hit
         | windows+r, hit ctrl+v, then press enter to confirm you're
         | human".
         | 
         | As computers continue to be dumbed down, I don't expect
         | computer literacy to rise to a safe level any time soon. It's a
         | matter of time before executing downloads from the internet
         | becomes impossible.
        
       | justusthane wrote:
       | > Doppelganger campaigns use specialized links that bounce the
       | visitor's browser through a long series of domains before the
       | fake news content is served
       | 
       | What's the purpose of being bounced across several different
       | domains before arriving at the destination? I've noticed this
       | behavior when accidentally clicking on sketchy ads, but never
       | stopped to think about it.
        
         | Mtinie wrote:
         | Multiple impressions per interstitial domain, I imagine.
        
         | out-of-ideas wrote:
         | reminds me of how okta and similar handle logging in. feels
         | like 10thousand redirects later.. training users that behavior
         | is okay
        
           | Xevion wrote:
           | I despise how my university's login system just redirects
           | several times (sometimes getting stuck, reloading and
           | redirecting multiples times, and then occasionally shitting
           | me out on the logged out screen, wondering WTF happened).
           | 
           | I cannot fathom how their IT staff allows things to be that
           | way. One redirect ideally. Two max. Three, and I'm assuming
           | you don't know what you're doing, at all.
        
             | imp0cat wrote:
             | If only it were that simple. You can thank Apple, Google
             | and their war on cookies for that.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | One reason is to set session ID cookies on several
             | different domains.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | The problem with university login systems - at least here
             | in Germany/Europe - is this global federation system that's
             | also backing EduRoam. Authentication flows there are
             | insanely complex, not to mention dealing with known quirks
             | of some university's implementation...
        
             | rrr_oh_man wrote:
             | > I cannot fathom how their IT staff allows things to be
             | that way. One redirect ideally. Two max. Three, and I'm
             | assuming you don't know what you're doing, at all.
             | 
             | Welcome to Microsoft/Live/Bing/Skype/Edge/...
        
           | badmintonbaseba wrote:
           | Still better than the MS Teams website, which can get into a
           | weird state and redirect in circles.
        
           | OkayPhysicist wrote:
           | I literally just implemented an Okta integration with an
           | internal tool yesterday, so let me offer a little insight on
           | why this happens. I have an existing tool. The guy in charge
           | of it doesn't want me breaking anything, but we want to add
           | an SSO flow to avoid having to login.
           | 
           | So I need a "SSO login page", which fetches some
           | configuration data, stores it, generates some shared tokens,
           | hands them to the browser, and then redirects the user to an
           | Okta endpoint. Okta, for some reason, doesn't directly serve
           | the login screen at that endpoint, so it captures the tokens
           | I gave the browser, then redirects to its login page. The
           | user logs in on the Okta page, which then redirects the user
           | back to a page that I specified, which (since I don't want to
           | touch the fragile 10,000 line php document that is the
           | application's home page, is a separate page, which gets some
           | information from the browser, makes a request to another Okta
           | endpoint, at which point the user can be authenticated,
           | logged in, and then sent to the home page of the app.
           | 
           | Basically, the most standalone way of handling the problem
           | involves 4 redirects.
        
         | byteknight wrote:
         | It bypasses a lot of the checks they do on the initial site
         | when submitting to ad networks. It also allows custom
         | redirections based on user agent, potential ip location, etc.
         | Common in phishing.
        
         | weird-eye-issue wrote:
         | In addition to what the other comments said it also would allow
         | for first-party cookies to be set for those domains
         | 
         | Not sure if that's the purpose but it could potentially be used
         | for tracking, monetization, etc
        
         | lionkor wrote:
         | A lot of microsoft services do this, too. Though, that's
         | probably incompetence.
        
       | tempodox wrote:
       | It never ceases to amaze me how creativity gets ramped up to 11
       | when it comes to graft, theft and scam.
        
       | palmfacehn wrote:
       | A clever social engineering approach, but Kreb's trite alarmism
       | overshadows the novelty.
        
       | wwn_se wrote:
       | Great article but the fix is Adblock! Enable adblock everywhere
       | for your family and friends at risk. Even if an ad sometimes
       | slips through they since its out of the ordinary they are way
       | less likely to click.
       | 
       | https://firstpartyornoparty.org/
        
         | lionkor wrote:
         | Okay, my family has iPads. What should they use? Brave? lol
        
           | nake89 wrote:
           | Yes
        
           | brettermeier wrote:
           | Tablets not from Apple. That's your fault if you use that
           | shit and can't block ads or install whatever you want.
        
             | carlosjobim wrote:
             | It's easy for a non technological person to block ads and
             | malicious domains on the system level on all Apple devices.
        
             | lionkor wrote:
             | They already have an iPhone, a Mac, a MacBook, which tablet
             | would you recommend that integrates just as well? My point
             | is that this is not a realistic option for a lot of people.
             | Adblockers only work for people who have previously valued
             | their freedom.
        
           | v5v3 wrote:
           | Nextdns/similar.
           | 
           | Vpn with ad blocking built in
        
           | ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
           | UBOL is in testing now for iOS, but Apple has some bugs on
           | their content blocking side. Reminder that adblockers are
           | recommended by the FBI
        
           | Tijdreiziger wrote:
           | There are various ad blockers for Safari on the App Store.
        
             | coldpie wrote:
             | People always say this, but I wish they would suggest a
             | specific one. There are so many out there, it's hard to
             | know which ones are high quality, still maintained, etc.
        
               | thimabi wrote:
               | I recommend 1Blocker, it's actively maintained and pretty
               | good. However, if you're not a grandfathered user like
               | me, it does come with a small price.
        
               | qilo wrote:
               | Firefox Focus is available on App Store. You don't have
               | to use it (I don't), but set it as a content blocker in
               | Safari settings.
               | 
               | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/safari-integration-
               | fire...
               | 
               | The only other extension I've started using recently,
               | when the quantity/frequency of YouTube ads on Safari
               | became unbearable, is 1Blocker. It includes a specific
               | filter for blocking YouTube ads, and you can use one
               | active filter for free without subscription.
               | 
               | https://support.1blocker.com/en/articles/9313640-how-to-
               | bloc...
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | iPads don't support notifications unless your family figures
           | out how to use PWAs (they won't, Apple made sure of that).
           | Also, there are various content blockers for iOS.
           | 
           | Unfortunately, because real alternative browsers are only
           | supported in the EU (and even then with big asterisks), you
           | won't see a normal browser engine powerful content blocking
           | any time soon. The content filters you can download from the
           | app store help, but they're not as powerful as uBO and
           | friends.
        
           | const_cast wrote:
           | Orion has ad blocking built in and supports Firefox
           | extensions.
           | 
           | I think the extension support is explicitly disallowed by
           | Apple so shhh don't tell anyone teehee!
        
           | swat535 wrote:
           | Adguard for Safari is excellent, it can be combined with
           | Vinegar and Baking Soda:
           | 
           | Baking Soda: https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/baking-soda-tube-
           | cleaner/id160...
           | 
           | Vinegar: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/vinegar-tube-
           | cleaner/id1591303...
           | 
           | Adguard pro: https://adguard.com/en/adguard-ios-
           | pro/overview.html
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | The problem with this is that many older people are reluctant
         | to use web browsers that actually support true ad blocking.
         | They are used to Chrome and don't want to use anything that is
         | even remotely different. I have this argument with my mom on
         | almost a daily basis. She is always messing up her phone or
         | computer by clicking on something she shouldn't. I have
         | installed firefox for her, but she refuses to use it.
        
       | b0a04gl wrote:
       | > This is the new pop-up ad.
       | 
       | browser gave it a front row seat without asking. feels less like
       | security and more of a prank someone forgot to turn off
        
       | thyristan wrote:
       | This is, at least for browser notifications, just yet another
       | result of generally atrocious browser UI decisions.
       | 
       | There are tons of permissions a site may or may not request, all
       | of them configured and requested in different ways. Sometimes it
       | is a full page overlay, like when you get a certificate error.
       | Sometimes it is a separate popup window, like when you allow
       | using a client certificate. Sometimes it is a whole-width bar
       | below the address bar, like when a page requests becoming your
       | mailto:-scheme-handler. Sometimes it is a smaller popover
       | dangling from the address bar or some icon there, like for camera
       | or location. Sometimes I can allow/deny, sometimes I can allow or
       | just close that tab. Sometimes I can remember the setting,
       | sometimes it is auto-remembered.
       | 
       | As soon as the initial setting has been configured, removing or
       | reconfiguring it happens in totally different and unobvious
       | places again.
       | 
       | And then, If I allowed something and there is e.g. a notification
       | from a website, the browser hides the fact that this is a
       | browser-based notification, there are no embedded "STFU, never
       | show again" buttons or anything.
       | 
       | There also is no simple place to just look at all the permissions
       | some website might have. There also isn't a place for many
       | permissions, where you can get a list of websites that have e.g.
       | camera permissions.
       | 
       | It is all just very opaque, non-obvious, historically grown
       | inconsistent spaghetti.
       | 
       | What needs to happen is a consistent permission request and
       | change flow for everything a website wants to do. Not only with
       | "allow forever/deny forever", but also with "allow/deny once",
       | "allow/deny for session", "allow/deny for timeframe". And with an
       | "allow to ask again after timeframe/never/..." selection. Not
       | with popups or bars, but with a whole-page overlay like HTTPS
       | does. Why whole-page? Because then clickjacking won't work, there
       | is more space to put an explanation and options, and pages need
       | to interrupt flow so this will hopefully be used sparingly.
        
       | tehwebguy wrote:
       | Once again grateful that at least one mobile platform doesn't
       | allow browser push notifications.
        
       | HocusLocus wrote:
       | I've followed Krebs for years and appreciate this specific
       | warning. I changed my dad's default Windows colors so when he was
       | presented with fake system dialogues floating on web pages he'd
       | spot them as different right away. But the "click allow to prove
       | you're a human" might have caught him. Captcha-annoyed people are
       | slightly easier to fool sometimes. Push wasn't a big thing then
       | or I would have disabled it.
       | 
       | Dad was one of those late computer adopters who had to be
       | instructed carefully about things pretending to be other things
       | and and nested windows. I remember when pages spawning new
       | windows (then grabbing focus to hide them) was a thing. Then
       | older folks about to go to bed closing their browsers and
       | greeting the hidden windows like a continuation of their browsing
       | experience.
       | 
       | Russia has evolved along with us on the Internet and I'd remind
       | Mr. Krebs paraphrasing Freud, sometimes a Russian oligarch is
       | just a Russian oligarch. It's possible that the Kremlin has hired
       | these companies like everyone else, and a lot of shady people
       | want to penetrate EU DNS defenses.
       | 
       | Fake camping sites with AI content whether its disinformation or
       | deception or hallucination with no human proofreading, is a
       | looming problem. Keep an eye on the prize, preventing old people
       | from getting scammed.
       | 
       | People need more education in general to spot nefarious content,
       | no matter who the state actor is. We don't want a repeat of the
       | Alfa-Bank scam 'October Surprise' either. It relied on the
       | gullibility of the Internet surfing public but DNS administrators
       | should have seen through it and asked more questions.
        
       | BMaronge wrote:
       | The article is a bit vague on some points, for example: the links
       | bounce the visitor through a series of domain names... why
       | exactly? What do the scammers gain by redirecting the visitor
       | multiple times instead of just once? It is not explained.
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | KrebsOnSecurity is a really weird website. I feel like I should
         | be the perfect audience for it, as a software engineer who is
         | very interested in security and reverse engineering, but every
         | time I try to read their articles it just comes across as
         | paragraphs and paragraphs of overwrought fluff with zero actual
         | content. I guess their audience is someone with less technical
         | knowledge who is impressed by empty phrases like "startling
         | discovery" and "online hucksters and website hackers" and
         | "resilient and incestuous". And that's all just in the first
         | paragraph here. Get to the point, man.
        
           | bn-l wrote:
           | Huh that's weird I feel the exact same way and should also be
           | the natural audience.
           | 
           | Every time I read an article though I feel like my eyes go
           | cross eyed. It's like you said, the words are there they
           | should make sense, but I find my attention wandering.
           | 
           | It's like they are written by a very very early LLM.
        
           | cpburns2009 wrote:
           | I stopped reading his website after he started spreading
           | disinformation about Ubiquiti.
        
       | StuntPope wrote:
       | Lost me at "Kremlin disinformation".
       | 
       | Krebs need to ditch the TDS.
       | 
       | His "Red Herring DNS flaw" garbage was when I realized that 90%
       | of what he spits out is Gell-Mann amnesia.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | Kinda wish the web had an ability to defend itself.
       | 
       | Put CAPTCHAs on your site: zero traffic.
       | 
       | EU adds those cookie banners to everything: EU should have been
       | disconnected from the internet.
        
         | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
         | > EU adds those cookie banners to everything
         | 
         | EU required website operators to disclose certain uses of
         | cookies and many of them chose the most obnoxious way possible.
         | Perhaps more agreeable: every website that uses those banners
         | should be disconnected from the internet.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | They coulda said "Respect DNT or go to jail" but instead they
           | broke the ultimate window.
           | 
           | For years I advocated, mostly successfully, to keep pop-ups,
           | pop-unders, pop-ins and other abuse like that out of sites I
           | worked on. Then the EU pulls this magic trick that transforms
           | them into something required, and then "wholesome" so after
           | that the dam breaks and it is common for a blog today to pop
           | up three banners that want your email address, for pop-up ads
           | to cover other pop-up ads, etc.
           | 
           | When your government is unresponsive like that the only
           | choice is exit, no wonder the EU is overrun by populists that
           | want out. If they don't want Frexit and Sprexit and Grexit
           | they'd better think twice when they make another thoughtless
           | law with terrible consequences.
        
             | Ylpertnodi wrote:
             | >They coulda said "Respect DNT or go to jail" but instead
             | they broke the ultimate window.
             | 
             | You know EU law only applies in the EU? And blockers exist?
             | I always howl with laughter when some bumhole USA newspaper
             | presents me with a cookie banner that got through. Then i
             | change vpn-server, read what i want, and get on with my
             | tawdry existence.
        
             | lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote:
             | > and then "wholesome"
             | 
             | What is this referring to?
             | 
             | > thoughtless law with terrible consequences
             | 
             | Fair enough, I guess. If I understand the point, the EU
             | should not have presumed so much that the law would change
             | behavior for the better. The obvious result is that
             | behavior changed for the worse. For what it's worth, I
             | still personally prefer speaking against those who made
             | their behavior worse to comply with the law when it's so
             | obvious what the lawmakers' intention was; the EU actually
             | had user-friendly intentions and the cookie banners'
             | implementations are the result of user-hostility.
        
       | psychoslave wrote:
       | >While TDSs are commonly used by legitimate advertising networks
       | to manage traffic from disparate sources and to track who or what
       | is behind each click, VexTrio's TDS largely manages web traffic
       | from victims of phishing, malware, and social engineering scams.
       | 
       | Legal sysops is still sysops. Certainly every actor out there
       | putting in place individual level mass surveillance and influence
       | consider themselves very legitimate.
        
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