[HN Gopher] A Blacklisted American Magician Became a Hero in Brazil
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A Blacklisted American Magician Became a Hero in Brazil
Author : bookofjoe
Score : 117 points
Date : 2025-06-10 17:10 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| bookofjoe wrote:
| https://archive.ph/66ffV
| slater wrote:
| Doesn't work.
| bookofjoe wrote:
| Try this: https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/magician-
| brazil-nation...
| pvg wrote:
| Link seems not to include the story
| DocTomoe wrote:
| Considering for some years now, Penn & Teller's whole act is
| basically exactly what this guy did, I'd chalk his shunning down
| to him trying to protect his identity (yes, in the last episode,
| he _dud_ reveal himself, I know... but I suspect that was not
| entirely voluntary.)
| ninininino wrote:
| I wonder if the difference is the magician themselves revealing
| their trick vs others guessing as to how it's done?
| metalliqaz wrote:
| I've seen P&T's show in Vegas a few times, and I've seen many
| of their TV appearances. They _do_ explain how illusions work,
| but they _don 't_ spoil other magicians tricks. They will do an
| old classic, show it from the "other side", and then while you
| aren't paying attention they pull off something new, giving no
| explanation for that one.
| jackthetab wrote:
| I just saw an interview with Penn wherein he stated that they
| have been thrown out of The Magic Castle, et. al for
| revealing tricks.
|
| Given their popularity, I'm sure they've been allowed back
| in. :-)
| busterarm wrote:
| The Magic Castle is for Magic Circle members. Magic Circle
| rules very strictly prohibit their membership. They could
| always attend the Castle as guests of a member though.
|
| The Magic Circle still asks them to donate items to their
| museum, despite refusing their membership.
| bigbuppo wrote:
| You're confusing the magic castle with the magic
| circle...
| busterarm wrote:
| It's the Circle that has strict rules about not revealing
| tricks. If they're Academy of Magical Arts members their
| access to the Castle is guaranteed.
| seanhunter wrote:
| Or maybe they're confusing magic castle with white
| castle. It's an easy mistake to make, although I suspect
| it's harder to get thrown out of white castle.
| mrandish wrote:
| The Magic Circle is a private magic club in London
| England. The Magic Castle is a private magic club in
| Hollywood California. The Magic Castle has a restaurant
| and regular magic shows by professional magicians in
| three theaters. The performers change weekly. Members of
| the Magic Castle can give anyone Castle guest passes to
| go for dinner and shows. In practice, this allows almost
| anyone who really wants to go to the Castle to get in as
| they aren't very restricted. I was a member of the Castle
| for over a decade until I moved out of the area and still
| have many friends who are members. I haven't checked
| lately, but in most eras, if you just called the Castle
| office and asked very nicely they'd send you a guest
| pass. I'm sure Penn and/or Teller have wanted to go to
| the Magic Castle, there'd be no issue.
|
| The Magic Circle is quite different. It's not generally
| open to the public and is, frankly, quite old fashioned.
| It was only very recently that they even started
| permitting female members. For that reason alone I doubt
| that either Penn or Teller would ever _want_ to go there.
| They 'd probably be more likely to actively protest
| against the Magic Circle (at least until recently).
| mrandish wrote:
| I used to hang out with Penn back when I was a castle
| member and he never mentioned that to me. I guess it's
| possible that happened but it would have been a _very_ long
| time ago. The Magic Castle was founded in the late 1960s by
| two brothers, Bill and Milt Larson. Since then it has gone
| through quite a few different regimes. There was a brief
| time back in the 1980s when P &T were first breaking
| nationally when some older magicians made an issue about
| what they _heard_ the P &T show contained (most hadn't
| actually seen it themselves). But this was a minority of
| magicians, mostly older hobby-types, and never the working
| pros. Every club tends to have some older cranks who focus
| on policing hall passes or whatever. If P&T wanted to go to
| the Castle in recent decades they'd be gladly welcomed. I'm
| pretty sure Michael Close, who's been the senior technical
| coordinator running the behind-the-scenes of P&T's Fool Us
| show for many years was on the Magic Castle board of
| directors at some point.
|
| It would make more sense if perhaps P&T were "uninvited"
| from the UK's Magic Circle, which is a very different, much
| smaller and entirely unrelated private magic club. The
| Magic Circle only very recently started allowing female
| members, so I'm pretty sure P&T would be delighted to be
| banned there.
| empath75 wrote:
| You should pretty much never trust magicians who "explain"
| how their illusions work. Sometimes they genuinely do explain
| it, but often, it's still another trick. Derren Brown does
| this a lot.
| Tangurena2 wrote:
| My absolute favorite "magician" was a card manipulator who
| demonstrated how several of the standard card tricks
| worked. Even showing the trick from the side and also from
| behind (his back to the audience so you see how he's doing
| it) the technical skill was amazing. It motivated me to
| learn prestidigitation. It turns out that my fingers are
| too short to do card tricks with standard playing cards
| (also too short for the fretboard of a classical guitar - I
| have to stick to acoustics & electrics).
| tcauduro wrote:
| For small fingers, bridge sized card decks are an option!
| criddell wrote:
| I used to love watching the Derren Brown specials until he
| did the one predicting the lottery numbers. That made me
| realize all of his tv shows could be camera tricks and paid
| actors.
| Flimm wrote:
| Same here. It was the lottery episode that made me
| realise that he is willing to lie when explaining his
| illusions. I didn't feel delighted by the illusion, I
| felt lied to.
| seanhunter wrote:
| My favourite example that I've seen of this was Asi Wind on
| Penn and Teller where he "explains" the trick and fools
| everyone anyway https://youtu.be/fg0CC99hVK8?si=6BpmQjHEe-
| AkP84v
| sbuttgereit wrote:
| One thing I haven't seen mentioned here to your point about
| sharing other's work. Some (many?) sell their tricks. So
| assuming that you've spent time developing a new trick and
| some portion of your living depends not just on presentation,
| but also selling the trick or training.... I could see some
| getting upset.
|
| Otherwise, I don't think the issue is spoiling it for
| audiences as the craft and presentation style count as much
| or more than the trick itself.
| bigbuppo wrote:
| P&T's whole deal is revealing the low-hanging fruit in
| frutherance of the greater trick. There are some circles that
| shun them for revealing things, but they're still respected by
| those same groups, and are well-liked all around. Why? Penn and
| Teller respect the artform. Valentino just went around being a
| dick about it, with complete contempt for the craft. That's the
| difference.
|
| Seriously... his deal is magicians lie? You mean it's all an
| act? What a revelation. At no time in the last few thousand
| years has anybody in the history of the world ever figured that
| out. Nope, none at all.
| belril wrote:
| To take this a step further, P&T's reveals often highlight
| and celebrate the complexity of pulling off a given trick.
| Sure, you understand how the cups and balls can be done after
| watching them do it, but good luck trying to replicate the
| smoothness of their performance. They actually make a point
| of celebrating the complexity of the method, even if it's
| revealed.
| coliveira wrote:
| I always thought the line that they being "blacklisted" by
| other magicians was some piece of advertising for the show. I
| don't think that makes much difference in the modern world.
| atum47 wrote:
| We still, to this day, say: "explain that, Mr. M" when something
| is not right.
|
| "I lend you 10 bucks yesterday for you to buy lunch, today I see
| you are wearing a new shirt. Explain that Mr. M"
| atum47 wrote:
| Explain that Mr. M was the catch phrase the host would say
| after Mr. M perform the trick (illusion Michael) and before he
| showed how it was done.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| They're called illusions Michael... A trick is...
| oceansky wrote:
| Arrested Development seasons 1 and 2 are pure comedy gold.
| emiliobumachar wrote:
| Hum, I remember it as "What about now, Mr M?" ("E agora, Mr.
| M?")
| scop wrote:
| I _loved_ his shows when I was a kid. I was pretty into magic
| (e.g. going to the local shop and buying tricks) and this show
| was the most exciting thing I had ever seen. I get that it broke
| many rules, but I think it was well timed. If it had been earlier
| I think it would have been a true rule-breaking, "we're exposing
| secrets cuz we just don't care" type of thing. But in the 90s
| /00s it was a moment in which a new generation of TV kids.
| Whenever I would watch magic on TV I thought it was pretty lame
| because, after all, how do you know it was just special effects
| BS? This guy revealed that even though it was on TV it was _still
| an execution of skill /engineering/performance_. Super
| fascinating. Thanks Val!
| lurkshark wrote:
| This was exactly my experience as well. It's kind of funny now
| with the internet having endless information on illusions to
| think folks were so miffed by his show. But also -- and this
| might just be my personal bias as someone who always loved the
| showmanship and execution -- it baffles me that anyone would
| skip seeing a magic show because they saw an explanation (not
| even nearly THE explanation) of how it's done. Like I assume
| most people besides the Falun Gong don't think David
| Copperfield is a legitimate wizard.
| whstl wrote:
| I have zero patience for watching the tricks by themselves.
|
| Watching the explanations on the other hand is fun.
|
| To me it's like watching a trailer vs watching the full film.
| scop wrote:
| Exactly. It is just like professional wrestling. It's not a
| matter of thinking it's real, magic is all about being so
| damn entertained that you don't care whether it's real.
| pearlsontheroad wrote:
| "Firms hire elderly office boys to wait in line at banks and
| notaries, exploiting federal rules giving priority to anyone over
| 60."
|
| Retirement Plan Z (if everything else fails): Work as a messenger
| in Brazil. They're hiring.
| gtirloni wrote:
| Banks are pretty much empty these days. Everything is computer.
| CobrastanJorji wrote:
| Pick notary.
| elros wrote:
| It's been decades and instantly in my head I could hear Cid
| Moreira's voice. I'm sure I'm not the only one :-) Watching that
| on Sundays, with my father, as a child. Good memories.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hed40Muo50
| dkga wrote:
| Same!
| felipellrocha wrote:
| How did I know this was going to be about Mr M?
| tumsfestival wrote:
| Come on, how many pariah international magicians are there who
| are famous around these parts?
| silisili wrote:
| I remember watching his show in my younger years. I always
| assumed/thought that 'all magicians hate him' was just to sell
| the show more, like surely we all know magic isn't real anyways?
| Apparently that's not the case, it seems.
| mrandish wrote:
| As a former professional magician and lifelong magic
| enthusiast, no serious magicians hate this guy. On the
| contrary, his show was great because it drove interest in magic
| which is good for working performers. The "Magicians HATE him"
| shtick was just marketing hype to promote the TV show.
|
| Of course there are probably a couple of clueless amateur
| magicians somewhere out there who will spout about this guy but
| it's not how the vast majority of us feel. Anyone who studies
| and understands magic on a serious level already knows they can
| take the exact same techniques you saw exposed on that show and
| fool you silly with them the next day.
|
| I know this is true because I've seen a top notch magician like
| legendary Spanish card worker Dani DaOrtiz perform for a
| roomful of _very_ experienced professional magicians at a magic
| conference and completely blow their minds. The best part is
| that he used a technique that _every_ person in that room
| already knew! In fact, the majority of those pro magicians have
| studied and performed it themselves for years - and were
| _still_ fooled. A layperson seeing a 60 second drive-by expose
| on a TV show of a single implementation of one of thousands of
| techniques has zero impact on a good magician.
| irjustin wrote:
| I think out of the "serious magicians" there's also the
| general "fraud" style. Who were in fact truly angry.
|
| Make a space shuttle disappear[0], or hide an elephant. The
| TV show revealed all those to be fake and were in fact - paid
| audiences. My little brain trusted that they weren't paid and
| wanted to know so bad how the space shuttle disappeared.
|
| Overall the TV and the internet helped push magic to exactly
| where it is today. Amazing, talented folks who even when you
| know how it's done, it's so good - it's magic.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lxX3rqhZtw
| johannes1234321 wrote:
| Yeah, I think there is the category of illusionists where
| it's just disappointing and sad if you learn the truth (oh
| camera angle and stage moved and thus the statue isn't to
| be seen anymore) and the category of masters of sleight of
| hand etc. where you really appreciate the masterfulness and
| even when you know how the effect was done are more stunned
| by the precision in the work.
| mrandish wrote:
| > even when you know how the effect was done are more
| stunned by the precision in the work.
|
| This is indeed true. Those who look at magic as merely a
| puzzle to be solved are really missing out on the beauty
| and wonder of it. After a lifetime of studying magic, I
| know how almost every effect I see is done. Sadly,
| knowing how they are all done is the _worst_ part of
| studying magic deeply. The best part is being able to
| appreciate really _great_ magic on deeper levels.
|
| Growing up near the Magic Castle and traveling to magic
| conferences over several decades I've had the privilege
| of seeing some of the greatest magicians in the world
| perform live. At the highest levels, great close-up
| sleight of hand transcends finger flinging dexterity and
| becomes all about timing, tone, pace, body language and
| other subtle cues which combined control the focus of the
| audience in stunning ways. One of the best I ever saw
| live was the legendary Albert Goshman, who died in 1991.
| By the time I met him, Al was in his late 60s and his
| hands were so arthritic he could barely grip his cane.
| Yet, somehow, it didn't matter. I watched Goshman perform
| at the Magic Castle dozens of times. I knew his entire
| act by heart, beat by beat - and it fooled me silly every
| time.
|
| Al's signature routine was the Salt Shaker trick. A coin
| would magically appear underneath a salt shaker sitting
| on the table. That was the entire trick. But it kept
| happening. Over and over. Nothing else was on the table,
| no cover, nothing. And you _never_ saw him put the coin
| there. The entire audience would just be _burning_ that
| damn salt shaker with unblinking stares. There was no
| trick to it. It was just a normal salt shaker. The table
| was a normal green felt-covered poker table sitting under
| a bright spotlight with the audience at the table right
| alongside Al. The shaker, coin and table could all be
| borrowed. It didn 't matter where you were or how close.
| You could even stand behind him.
|
| Al's gnarled, shaking hands clearly weren't doing any
| sophisticated slight of hand. The only magic on display
| was Goshman's Jedi-like ability to control the attention
| of the entire audience, which he honed over decades of
| performing this one routine. I heard from older magicians
| that there was a time decades earlier when Goshman relied
| more on sleight of hand but he got so good at mind
| control, the trick still worked even when Al's hands no
| longer did. Toward the end of the trick he'd point out
| that maybe all that salt was keeping you from seeing
| _when_ the coin arrived under the shaker, so he would
| replace the salt shaker with a _clear water glass_ placed
| upside down in the middle of the empty table. Then he 'd
| warn you he was going to put the coin under the glass.
| And, somehow, he managed to still do it when you weren't
| looking. Which was freaky because everyone in the
| audience would realize the coin had appeared under the
| glass at different moments. Then he'd proceed to do it
| again. And again. For the finale, a giant 3-inch coin
| bigger than the glass appeared under the glass. The coin
| was so big, the glass was actually sitting on the coin!
| The stunned silence usually lasted a good 15 seconds
| before the standing ovation.
|
| Unfortunately, the effect of the unique misdirection
| ability Goshman developed over decades is largely muted
| in videos of him performing, So, sadly, the sheer mind-
| fucking visceral impact of that trick died with Goshman.
| A lot of good sleight of hand specialists could do every
| move in Goshman's act, probably better than Goshman
| could, but the clear glass - others could _do_ the trick
| - but it only _fooled_ people when Al himself did it. I
| 've seen a lot of world-class close-up magic over the
| years, but that... that was special.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| I hadn't heard of that one, but reminds me of David
| Copperfield 1983 disappearing the Statue of Liberty, which
| I'm pretty sure was a "real" audience? But is also pretty
| boring.
| philodeon wrote:
| The audience was real for the Statue of Liberty. The
| "magic" was developing ball bearings smooth enough to
| allow the audience's seating to be turned without them
| noticing, in order to give them the same view as the
| television audience.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| it was still pretty boring TV, honestly. Being in the
| audience in person was probably more thrilling. As a
| child, it seemed like a stupid trick to me even without
| knowing how he did it -- that's it? I guessed some kind
| of mirrors or something. Maybe I wasn't smart enough as a
| 9-year-old to realize how hard it would be to fool the
| in-person audience? It didn't seem hard to me.
| mrandish wrote:
| I watched it when it originally aired and agree it was
| surprisingly unimpactful on TV. Interesting backstory: I
| know someone who worked on the creative team for that TV
| special and while developing new illusion concepts, they
| brainstormed the idea of making the moon disappear from
| the night sky (as verified by a live audience augmented
| with astronomers with telescopes and a laser). However,
| they realized the concept of that effect was "too big" to
| play well to television audiences.
|
| It's an interesting thought that a magic trick concept
| can be 'too amazing'. I think the Statue of Liberty was
| still 'too big' of a concept, at least for a television
| performance. Copperfield's illusion titled "Flying" is
| also really interesting in this regard. As both a
| magician and magical inventor, I think it's a terrific
| effect and Copperfield presented it beautifully. It's
| also one of the more difficult effects I've ever seen him
| do, both technically and physically. It's visually
| stunning, yet it just doesn't seem to have as strong of
| an impact on audiences as it should.
|
| Levitating a person has long been one of the most
| challenging and popular stage illusions. Over the last
| 150 years it's been done dozens of different ways - with
| my personal favorite being the Asrah levitation invented
| by Servais Le Roy and first performed in 1902. Arguably,
| the Flying illusion, which was invented by legendary
| illusion creator Johnny Gaughan for Copperfield, is the
| ultimate 'perfect' levitation. It achieves levitation in
| its most ideal, unconstrained form yet somehow fails to
| 'connect' strongly with audiences. Understanding why it
| doesn't is one of those fascinating puzzles magical
| inventors debate over beer. Sometimes figuring out _if_
| you should do an effect is even harder than figuring out
| _how_ to do it.
| mrandish wrote:
| > were in fact - paid audiences.
|
| I hadn't heard that. It also strikes me as a little odd
| since both of those effects can be done for real so there's
| no good reason to cheat in that way. Houdini popularized
| the elephant vanish as part of his stage show over a
| hundred years ago and Copperfield vanished a Lear jet from
| an airport tarmac in one of his early TV specials. The jet
| was completely surrounded by blindfolded audience members
| who were holding hands. I know how both were done and
| neither relied on a stooge audience.
|
| Streaming video and social media have been mostly terrific
| for the art of magic as there's a tremendous amount of
| excellent performance material now widely available. Even
| more importantly, anyone interested in learning magic can
| access very high-quality instruction videos. There's also
| interactive instruction with top notch magicians available
| one-on-one and in groups via Zoom. Growing up I got to see
| magic once or twice a year on TV and when I wanted to learn
| how to do it the local library had exactly three magic
| books. Fortunately, I happened to live in the Los Angeles
| area, auditioned for the Magic Castle and got accepted as
| as a junior member (a kind of apprentice program), where I
| was mentored by some of the greatest magicians of the 20th
| century and had access to the world's largest magic
| library. I was very, very lucky because 99.99% of teens
| interested in magic had nothing like that. Today, there's
| so much great magic readily available the only problem is
| curating what to see and learn.
|
| The downside of streaming video magic is there's an entire
| generation of magicians who've only performed alone in
| their own house via recorded video clips. This has led to
| some oddly perverse outcomes. Not having a live,
| interactive and unpredictable audience eliminates a _huge_
| part of the challenge of magic. Some of the sleight of hand
| effects I 've seen from Youtube-only performers only really
| look great from the exact angle of that one camera shot.
| Also, nailing some high-difficulty sleights _every time_
| can take years of practice but when you can make dozens of
| attempts and only post 'the good one', it's a different
| thing than repeatedly doing it five shows a night. Magic is
| really about solving for constraints, so having infinite
| 'backstage' time to prepare one effect as well as being
| able to 'cleanup' afterward hidden from the audience is
| profoundly different than creating a non-stop sequence of
| different effects while surrounded by a live audience
| looking wherever they want, whenever they want.
|
| As a magical inventor, the thought of creating a new magic
| effect solely for the context of one-stationary-camera,
| single-effect-per-clip with infinite attempts is like
| shooting fish in a barrel. It removes so many constraints
| it's almost not even interesting from my perspective. It's
| like those amazing demo scene graphical demos on a 1987
| Amiga 500. They're amazing because they create those
| effects within the constraints of the Amiga 500. Creating
| the same visual effects on a Geforce 5090 is hardly the
| same challenge. My Mom wouldn't understand why and, in much
| the same way, a non-magician may not understand how some
| Youtube magic isn't the same challenge as creating the same
| effect in an unpredictable, uncontrolled live context. And
| I'm not even talking about video editing tricks or special
| effects. Performing a single trick exactly one time (out of
| dozens of attempts) for a 'one-eyed' single-person audience
| whose head is locked down on a stationary tripod at one
| angle and who is blindfolded immediately before and
| afterward is, for many types of magic effects, as big a
| difference as that Geforce 5090 is to an Amiga. Both the
| Geforce and Amiga demos can look equally impressive but the
| skill, artistry and challenge are vastly different. I also
| suspect creating the demo on an Amiga vs 5090 was a lot
| more fun because it's a much more interesting challenge.
| mikaelmello wrote:
| What I thought would be an interesting article about his life in
| Brazil ended up being... nothing.
|
| Mentioning him as a "hero" in Brazil is quite an overstatement
| but whatever, but then the article goes on to bash and generalize
| Brazilians and paint him as a "rare" honest person that's been
| lauded for it? I'd guess no one I know even know he lives in
| Brazil.
|
| As a Brazilian, it has always been about a cool show that showed
| you cool new things, so he's well known just like tons of other
| celebrities that grow beyond the US, and that's it.
| jwitthuhn wrote:
| For anyone who never saw his show, it is (all?) now available on
| this youtube channel.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/@MagicSecretsRevealed/videos
| wblackfield wrote:
| Olha o Mr. M!!! Hahaha (in Brazilian Portuguese just for fun) =B
| d0100 wrote:
| Weird narrative of Mister M being famous because Brazilians
| "loathe deception more than anyone"
|
| He got famous because everyone loves magic, and even more when
| you explain magic tricks
|
| But most importantly, and what the author fails to mentions, it
| was because at that point in time anything on TV got famous,
| because TV was the only visual media we had that was "free"
| lee-rhapsody wrote:
| "Maybe this will finally get me on the cover of Poof..."
| felineflock wrote:
| No paywall: https://archive.ph/Xi1bJ
| rmellow wrote:
| I remember his show was abruptly interrupted as he was detained
| by the Federal Police for working in Brazil without the
| appropriate visa.
|
| https://www.folhadelondrina.com.br/geral/pf-multa-e-da-oito-...
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