[HN Gopher] Android 16 is here
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Android 16 is here
        
       Author : nsriv
       Score  : 149 points
       Date   : 2025-06-10 18:29 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.google)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.google)
        
       | nsriv wrote:
       | Factory images here: https://developers.google.com/android/images
        
         | jonah wrote:
         | From that page:
         | 
         | Warning: The May 2025 update for Pixel 6 (6, 6 Pro, 6a) and
         | Pixel 8 (8, 8 Pro, 8a) devices contains a bootloader update
         | that increments the anti-roll back version for the bootloader.
         | This prevents the device from rolling back to previous
         | vulnerable versions of the bootloader. After flashing the May
         | 2025 update on these devices you won't be able to flash and
         | boot older Android 15 builds.
        
         | rkagerer wrote:
         | What's with the AI-generated "Key Takeaways" crap on the right
         | column of that page? No thanks, the content is short enough I
         | can easily skim it on my own.
        
       | mouse_ wrote:
       | Are they still moving forward with killing AOSP?
        
         | edude03 wrote:
         | Where did you get that idea?
        
       | mrweasel wrote:
       | The notification feature looks nice. I've pretty much exclusively
       | used iOS, but honestly notifications is a weak point for iOS, in
       | my opinion. I frequently have the 1 notification on my home
       | screen, but once unlocked notifications are pretty much
       | impossible to find again.
        
         | Groxx wrote:
         | I'm certainly happy to see "force grouping". Grouping is a
         | great opt-in enhancement, but it never should've been wholly in
         | apps' control to begin with - apps in general cannot be trusted
         | to not be dumb, gotta have user control to override them.
        
         | argsnd wrote:
         | I agree that Android notifications are broadly better than iOS
         | but the live activities feature was a good idea and I'm quite
         | glad that's been added to Android now
        
         | robertoandred wrote:
         | Once unlocked, swipe down from the top of the screen to open
         | Notification Center.
        
       | flyinghamster wrote:
       | Oh great, I get to learn how to use my phone all over again. We
       | need a "leave this the $EXPLETIVE alone" setting for our user
       | interfaces.
        
         | eurekin wrote:
         | I think this topic returns with some regularity... It often
         | ends with justification about the need for a promotion of a
         | particular executive that is involved with that inevitably
         | undeniable success
        
         | voidfunc wrote:
         | UI engineers need to justify their existence.
        
           | hadlock wrote:
           | I genuinely think this is the case, and why products don't
           | have a LTS interface, even though they ought to. Sign me
           | right up for the 10 year LTS interface. I can't recall any
           | features in gmail that were added that I actually use besides
           | labels, which was an early launch feature. But it's been
           | redesigned about 9 times in the last 20 years, each time with
           | increasing white space and/or a slightly different font.
        
             | lupire wrote:
             | LTS interface is expensive for minimal benefit.
        
           | nawgz wrote:
           | Definitely. Those pesky UI engineers are always rewriting and
           | refactoring and reworking stuff. Me, a talented backend
           | engineer? I would never. My code was perfect initially and
           | there's no pressure to show deliverables from my manager
           | since they know I'm the best.
        
             | stackskipton wrote:
             | Huh? Sure, UI code can change, no one is arguing that but
             | API changes, just like for backend, need to be extremely
             | thought out and slow. For UI Engineers, UI is API to the
             | user and for some reason, when they blow up their API, they
             | get praised for it. Most backend engineers are change API
             | at much much slower rate.
        
           | Lerc wrote:
           | UI engineers should be like vaccines. If they do their job
           | well, you should never see why they were needed.
        
             | jrgaston wrote:
             | That so many do not see why vaccines are needed is a
             | serious problem.
        
               | DannyBee wrote:
               | Sure, but what is happening here is basically the
               | equivalent of us engineering current-vaccine resistant
               | viruses, along with new vaccines, and releasing them all
               | together, so that people know vaccines are important and
               | are forced to get new vaccines to be safe.
               | 
               | We shouldn't do that, in the same way we shouldn't make
               | sure people know UI is important by changing it
               | completely every n years.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | I wish we had a dozen phone companies instead of just two.
         | 
         | Please write your legislators and demand antitrust action
         | against Apple and Google for the following:
         | 
         | - Lack of One-Tap Web Installs (without scare walls or buried
         | settings menus). This is the biggest stranglehold they have.
         | Web installs can be done safely and securely via app signing,
         | permissions, and signature blacklists.
         | 
         | - First-party defaults for all the platform pieces: Messaging,
         | Payments, Photos, Music, Media, Navigation, etc. Every single
         | one of these lets Apple and Google squeeze another industry and
         | forces us into a pit of no-innovation.
         | 
         | - Default search, in the case of Google, which ropes you into
         | their search / ads funnel. They've also bought it out on
         | Apple's end.
         | 
         | - Default browser tech, in the case of Apple. It prevents
         | innovation on app runtimes and deployment and forces you to
         | develop using Apple technologies.
         | 
         | Winning the mobile rights battle will not only liberate us from
         | the "promo cycle" plague, it'll stop the tax on innovation and
         | introduce healthy competition.
         | 
         | If American legislators and the DOJ / FTC won't act, then every
         | other country should. If enough countries put pressure on Apple
         | and Google, we'll start to see competition reemerge. Right now
         | it's impossible to develop a new smartphone entrant. Even Meta
         | and Microsoft with their nearly-unlimited capital couldn't
         | fight off Apple and Google.
         | 
         | YCombinator would probably be happy if smartphones became open
         | platforms. They'd see healthier margins for startups and less
         | direct platform competition. a16z is pushing for this. Just
         | because Apple and Google were there first twenty years ago
         | shouldn't give them an eternity to rule the entire category.
        
           | kabdib wrote:
           | bring back the Windows phone! (srsly, they were pretty nice
           | to develop for)
        
           | rawling wrote:
           | > - First-party defaults for all the platform pieces:
           | Messaging, Payments, Photos, Music, Media, Navigation, etc.
           | Every single one of these lets Apple and Google squeeze
           | another industry and forces us into a pit of no-innovation.
           | 
           | Don't/can't Android manufacturers provide alternative
           | defaults here?
        
             | jsight wrote:
             | Yes, and most people hate it when they do that.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | Probably the biggest case for a full-on Google breakup.
               | Android being split from the platform components.
               | 
               | A new company probably still couldn't develop platform
               | pieces if that chink in the armor was made available by
               | the DOJ. But if Google were split along those lines into
               | two or more companies, it would provide nice and healthy
               | gradients on both the hardware/OS and the
               | platform/software sides of the market.
               | 
               | We really do need a Google breakup.
        
               | isaacaggrey wrote:
               | I agree with your parent post but why would a breakup not
               | equally apply to Apple?
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | It should! But the parent was referring to Android
               | manufacturers.
        
               | warkdarrior wrote:
               | > Probably the biggest case for a full-on Google breakup.
               | Android being split from the platform components.
               | 
               | Isn't core Android open source? As long as you do not
               | need Google apps and Google services, you can use Android
               | OSS right now without Google's platform components.
        
             | diffeomorphism wrote:
             | Wasn't that what all the 2015 antitrust stuff was about?
             | 
             | Manufacturers were contractually forbidden from doing that.
        
               | rawling wrote:
               | Thanks, that helped me find this which does sound like
               | it:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust_cases_against_Goo
               | gle...
        
               | izacus wrote:
               | Samsung literally provides their own alternative for all
               | of these.
        
           | legitster wrote:
           | As someone who owned a Symbian, a Palm OS, and a Windows
           | phone - I kind of refuse to listen to this argument anymore.
           | _I voted with my wallet_ and all I have to show for it were
           | years of mockery from my peers and a drawerful of bricked
           | devices.
        
           | rjsw wrote:
           | You can buy phones now that are not from Apple or Google, I
           | have a Nokia KaiOS one.
        
           | lupire wrote:
           | What you want is a government sponsored phone OS. We had
           | competition but software has economy of scale. No one wants
           | to pay the cost of developing a phone OS used by a small
           | fraction of users. Windows and Palm proved that.
           | 
           | And Samsung does sell phones with customized UI and apps.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | > _I wish we had a dozen phone companies instead of just
           | two._
           | 
           | Counterpoint: the resources currently dedicated to Apple and
           | Android would then be spread across a dozen operating
           | systems, assuming constant consumer spending.
           | 
           | Maybe you think stasis is a good thing, but I (mostly)
           | appreciate the progress iOS and Android have made over the
           | past nearly two decades. I wouldn't want to currently be
           | stuck at iOS 3 or 4 as opposed to iOS 18.
           | 
           | Assuming you actually mean a dozen phone operating systems.
           | Because we already do have _lots_ of phone _companies_ , but
           | they mostly all use Android.
        
         | demosthanos wrote:
         | This knee-jerk reaction is correct more often than not (see the
         | terrible iOS redesign announced earlier), but in this case it
         | seems like it might be incorrect?
         | 
         | I looked through the highlights linked here and the full
         | "What's New" page [0] and am pleasantly surprised to see a few
         | new features but no major overhauls of existing ones.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.android.com/16
        
           | danieldk wrote:
           | Yep, I just installed on my Pixel 9 and it looks barely
           | different from Android 15. Most of the changes seem to be in
           | the plumbing. Material Design Expressive will only arrive in
           | the next quarterly release.
        
             | nsriv wrote:
             | Yeah I think this is being lost in this rollout (and a
             | little bit in these comments). Expressive is in the next
             | update, since this year is a big hike up in the calendar
             | for phone release.
        
           | butlike wrote:
           | The issue is this reaction never sticks. Everyone's up in
           | arms, but would you really want to go back to Android KitKat
           | or iOS 2? Probably not for more than novelty, right?
        
             | FirmwareBurner wrote:
             | Bad faith argument. The opposite of Android 16
             | enshitification isn't going back to Android 2, but around
             | Android 10-12 or so it was already good enough IIRC. Why
             | not keep it like that?
             | 
             | Similar to Windows 11. The opposite isn't going back all
             | the way to Windows 3.1, but Windows 7 or so was kinda peak.
             | 
             | So please, justify me the progress, or more exactly, have
             | UI designers justify it, because I'm not seeing it. I've
             | mostly seen change for the sake of change, wrapped in
             | fluffy artsy BS jargon, making it sound like each UI change
             | is the second coming of Christ and fixes world hunger.
             | 
             | Because I can justify you how for example KDE 3 and similar
             | apps of that era including on Windows XP-7, were visually
             | easier and more intuitive to use, than those flat modern
             | looks of KDE 5/Windows 11 today.
        
               | legitster wrote:
               | More and more features are getting added, so the UI has
               | to get reorganized to accomodate for them. A lot of the
               | changes for Android 16 are to accommodate wearables and
               | folding phones and etc while keeping the controls more
               | consistent between them.
        
               | FirmwareBurner wrote:
               | Cars have also gained new features, but the steering
               | wheel, shifter, pedals, mirrors are still in the same
               | places since >50 years. You don't need to get a new
               | license and re-learn how to drive every time a new model
               | comes out because they moved the steering wheel on the
               | ceiling to install a 32 inch LCD screen.
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | I would really want to go back to something like the look
             | of iOS 1-6, with clearly discernible UI controls vs.
             | content and labels. Not the real-world-mimicry
             | skeuomorphism, but the look of the standard UI controls.
        
               | Pxtl wrote:
               | Web ruined everything. Got everybody thinking that flag
               | rectangles were cool and consistent ui frameworks were
               | old fashioned.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | Yes, of course I would. Android UI has been horrible ever
             | since 12.
        
             | justsomehnguy wrote:
             | I can live another decade without an app what groups three
             | options (one of it is "About") under a hamburger menu on a
             | completely blank screen.
        
             | pas wrote:
             | yes, who cares, let me launch apps and put widgets on the
             | screen, what else?
             | 
             | I like a lot of the new features, but the visual
             | (mis)communication language is terrible.
        
             | dzikimarian wrote:
             | While I like new notification management or control buttons
             | on top of the drawer, I really wouldn't have problem using
             | them in Holo design.
        
         | rezonant wrote:
         | Are you speaking in general, or is there anything specific
         | about this update that has you upset?
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | None of the changes have actually been that crazy. And at least
         | on my Pixel Google has made new features opt-in after major
         | updates.
        
         | ozim wrote:
         | It is good for your brain, it is an excellent exercise. /s
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Bo worries, Gemini AI will take care of that! The phone will
         | now what you want (and show more ads)
        
       | taurusnoises wrote:
       | As someone who's very much on the outside of the Apple / Android
       | debate (though I've never owned an iPhone, I do use a Mac and an
       | iPad), and as someone who's relatively tech illiterate, how does
       | this announcement read in light of Apple's latest liquid glass
       | stuff, and the pushback I'm seeing from almost every angle. Is
       | this Google announcement at all in response to the negative
       | reaction Apple is getting? Does what Google is saying here get
       | anyone excited? Maybe even excited enough to switch over?
        
         | mosdl wrote:
         | Android is a different beast since OEMs highly customize the
         | UX. Samsung could easily make a horrible liquid glass ripoff
         | and stick it on Android without Google doing anything.
         | 
         | Most of Google's work on Android seems to be around making
         | smaller changes for the UX and bigger internal changes
         | (splitting up the OS so individual parts can be updated without
         | the OEM involvement, security changes, etc).
        
         | sylens wrote:
         | Google announced Material 3 Expressive a month or two ago, way
         | before WWDC
        
           | skiman10 wrote:
           | And just to clarify, Material 3 Expressive is not shipping in
           | these builds, that will be in a quarterly release build in
           | probably in the first week of September.
        
         | beezlebroxxxxxx wrote:
         | I've used an Android and Apple phone on and off since the first
         | phones were available with the respective OSs. In general, I've
         | found the Android UI to be more intuitive (although they've
         | both had their boondoggles).
         | 
         | But lately it does seem like spinning wheels on the UI front
         | for both. Without a distinct new feature to build the UI
         | around, most UI changes just seem like change for the sake of
         | change (ie. resume/executive driven design). Both OS seem to be
         | approaching a very similar paradigm (Apple becoming more
         | androidy IMO lately). Minor changes aren't going to cause major
         | changes in popularity. "Liquid Glass" does seem to be
         | _uniquely_ disliked, and probably for good reasons, but Apple
         | generally has ecosystem and brand lock-in that will put the
         | brakes on much ship jumping.
        
       | adzm wrote:
       | http://android.com/16 for more information rather than just these
       | highlights
        
         | nsriv wrote:
         | Was between submitting this and the link I did, but opted for
         | the latter because the redesign is coming later. Thanks for
         | adding this!
        
       | throw_m239339 wrote:
       | I remember my first android device, it had like 512MO of RAM (and
       | storage), and it was blazing fast, it could be used as a WIFI
       | repeater too (which is why I still have it, although it 2.5G...).
       | Fast forward 13 year later or so, if your android device doesn't
       | have at least 8gig of RAM and 64gigs of storage, then it's pretty
       | much useless given how bloated the OS (and the apps) have
       | become...
       | 
       | So basically, Android low end has become useless, I remember 10+
       | years ago having to search for something very fast because of the
       | context, like something on a map or surf the web for info. It was
       | still super responsive with 512MO...
       | 
       | I tried a few cheap Android phones recently... they are simply
       | unresponsive, google apps will suddenly shut down because the
       | device is out of memory or something... or you try to make a
       | call, you make a mistake so you try to hang up, the phone will
       | refuse to hang up because it's stuck! you'd have to remove the
       | battery to quickly cancel the call! What the hell happened with
       | that OS?
        
         | esseph wrote:
         | The same thing that happens to every OS, features and bloat.
         | 
         | That said, Pixel devices all the way. No gross UI reskin, no
         | having multiple copies of the same type of app (Samsung camera
         | vs android camera, dialers, keyboards, etc.).
         | 
         | Fast, stable, good features.
         | 
         | If it's not a pixel device, you're probably going to have a
         | "mid" experience.
        
           | MostlyStable wrote:
           | Which is unfortunate, because one of the strengths of Android
           | was the diversity of the hardware ecosystem (although that
           | strength has been lessening as manufacturers have all begun
           | to converge on a common set of hardware features). You could
           | get a phone that had the features you in particular wanted.
           | Needing to buy a particular phone to get a good experience is
           | a bummer.
           | 
           | I say that as someone who has had several Pixel phones (and
           | Nexus before that) and been happy with them. But yeah, my
           | most recent phone is a low-end Motorola that I picked
           | specifically for a set of hardware features, but
           | unfortunately, as the parent commenter describes, it has been
           | a _terrible_ experience for a variety of reasons. I got the
           | hardware features I wanted (mostly, no one makes the full set
           | I want anymore, see above), and it turns out that I had to
           | give up a halfway-decent software experience.
        
             | chasil wrote:
             | Can you unlock the bootloader on your Motorola and install
             | LineageOS or something else?
             | 
             | If not, are you able to buy another Motorola phone where
             | this is possible?
        
           | cptskippy wrote:
           | My last 2 phones were Motorola and my most recent is a Pixel.
           | Meh...
           | 
           | The Motos came with very little bloatware that was easy
           | enough to uninstall or disable. There are just as many new
           | Google Apps that just weren't available on Moto phones that
           | I've been uninstalling from my Pixel:
           | 
           | Google One, Google Tasks, Google News, Google Lens, Google
           | Support Services, Google PDF Viewer, Google Play Books,
           | Google Pixel Watch, Pixel Buds, Pixel Studio, Gemini, Safety,
           | Find Hub, Google Home
           | 
           | It's not 3rd party, but it's still bloatware.
        
           | dzonga wrote:
           | pixel devices are nice when they work. but damn hardware
           | quality is shoddy in terms of aging. my pixel 6a battery got
           | swollen with less than 3 years. I have a first gen iphone se
           | still in use. I also had a pixel 3a that I couldn't find a
           | screen replacement for luckily for me -- google accepted a
           | trade in when the 6a got released.
           | 
           | the pixels have a overheating problem -- this you can google
           | for.
           | 
           | oh yeah, when automatic android updates happen a bunch of
           | your settings are reset even something simple as UI-theme.
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | My Pixel 6a (my current phone) has no battery swelling.
             | 
             | On the other hand, it takes over a minute to decide that
             | it's confirmed a GPS location. The Pixel 3a will do the
             | same thing in more like one second. The utter failure of
             | the GPS on the Pixel 6a (and possibly other related
             | phones?) seems to be a known, common issue.
             | 
             | I do have overheating problems. The phone won't work
             | outdoors in climates that are less nice than California.
             | Which surprises me, since that's most of the world.
        
             | rstat1 wrote:
             | >> the pixels have a overheating problem -- this you can
             | google for.
             | 
             | People keep saying this, but that's been every phone I've
             | ever had. They all get hot in hot weather and under heavy
             | use.
        
           | surgical_fire wrote:
           | I had 2 OnePlus devices in the past 7 years, and I had a
           | great experience with both.
           | 
           | Very stable, nice UI, no hardware/batery issues, very
           | responsive.
           | 
           | I don't know if I trust Google to make decent hardware. I am
           | highly suspicious of Pixel phones.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | > I tried a few Android cheap phones recently
         | 
         | IMO that's the big 'problem' with Android - any fly by night
         | company can make a phone with it, which sours those people on
         | Android as a whole and rightfully so. They may not understand
         | that it's not Android itself that is awful, but the low spec'd
         | phone or 'enhancements' some company added.
         | 
         | Higher end Android phones generally don't have any of these
         | problems at all. I can't even remember the last time mine had
         | something crash or had to restart. I generally stick to high
         | end Moto, Pixel, or Oneplus(current). Some people like Samsung
         | but their skin/os is too heavy handed for me.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | It's a problem that 95% of the world can afford to purchase a
           | smartphone with a modern OS?
        
             | wijwp wrote:
             | That's why "problem" is in quotes. It's a self-inflicted
             | and purposeful problem that trades a unified perception of
             | Android through flagship devices for broad reach.
        
         | resource_waste wrote:
         | >I tried a few Android cheap phones recently... they are simply
         | unresponsive
         | 
         | I got $100 motorolas and outside of snapchat and the keyboard
         | being responsive, it did the job for months.
         | 
         | I was a bit impressed.
         | 
         | I no longer am afraid to break my expensive phone because those
         | worked in the short term.
        
         | goodburb wrote:
         | $400 for a 3GB RAM is a "budget" phone?
         | 
         | I paid $200 for a Moto G85 5G with 12GB RAM, 256GB storage last
         | year.
         | 
         | Alternatives in the same range: CMF Phone 1/2 and OnePlus Nord
         | CE4 Lite 5G
        
           | jauntywundrkind wrote:
           | The new(er) mid range chipsets indeed are so so nice now.
           | Pretty/fully modern process nodes, battery efficient, still
           | very respectable cores.
           | 
           | Really glad to see we've finally landed at a place where
           | finding an old refurbished flagship is not the only logical
           | choice, where the mid-range has a lot going on for it.
           | 
           | Just wish we had some mainline kernel support, could put
           | Debian on these things! I've had a OnePlus 6T (2018) that
           | supposedly does pretty ok that I've been meaning to try
           | Mobian on, and it felt like for a bit Snapdragons were
           | getting better and better Linux support. But that motion
           | seems to have really tapered off in the last ~2 years?
        
         | nicoburns wrote:
         | > I remember my first android device, it had like 512MO of RAM
         | (and storage), and it was blazing fast,
         | 
         | Which device was that? My memory of early Android devices is
         | that they were anything but fast. It's only relatively recently
         | that they've caught up to iPhones in terms of responsiveness.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Remember when these launches used to revolve around the
       | codenames. This one is _Baklava_. As much as Material-era
       | numbered releases have a style, I miss the _personality_ of the
       | confectionary-themed marketing.
        
         | nsriv wrote:
         | I liked the unveils of the confectionary themed Androids on the
         | campus!
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | I like their Material Expressive design a lot more now after
       | Apple's big reveal. While it's still a bit too colorful and
       | whimsical for my liking, it does stay much closer to what I think
       | should be the top UX design ideal - be clear, legible, and _get
       | out of the way_. On the new iOS every screen feels like some UX
       | designer is shouting  "look how amazing I am at this!!" at me.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | Couldn't agree more. Quite a fall from grace by Apple.
        
           | rudedogg wrote:
           | I thought it looks nice, and gives more focus to the content
           | like they intended :/.
           | 
           | The space around a block style tab-bar/navbar is wasted
           | anyway, might as well show some of the content. Most apps
           | were doing it anyway. Seeing a system tabbar/navbar was
           | getting rare in "good" apps.
        
           | nextos wrote:
           | Apple did skeuomorphism really well, which is hard and
           | requires a lot of design work.
           | 
           | I cannot understand why they gradually abandoned that, as it
           | was clearly a competitive moat in terms of usability.
           | 
           | I've seen how computer illiterate or elderly people were able
           | to navigate skeuomorphic designs with relative ease. Right
           | now, they can't tell what is a button or a field and what
           | isn't.
        
             | kstrauser wrote:
             | It was primarily because skeuomorphic UIs don't scale well
             | with user experience levels. They're easier for novices but
             | don't lend themselves well to expert use, unless you add a
             | bunch of extra affordances that would seem really out of
             | place in a UI meant to look like a real thing. And what
             | does a skeuomorphic web browser or email app look ike? We
             | don't have those in meatspace.
        
               | jazzyjackson wrote:
               | inbox/outbox is a holdover from bins setting on your
               | desk. but yeah there's not much more to the interface of
               | a blank sheet of paper.
               | 
               | I disagree that skeuomorphic can't be used by power
               | users. Just throw a bunch of keyboard shortcuts in there.
        
             | pazimzadeh wrote:
             | It was less of flat vs. skeuomorphic than dead vs. alive
             | elements (https://vimeo.com/64895205).
             | 
             | While the technology to create 'alive' skeuomorphic
             | elements now exists, that wasn't the case a few years ago.
             | 
             | Older skeuomorphic designs were static/rasters which were
             | clunky to either mix these static elements with animated
             | elements (for example the iOS 7 menu title transitions) or
             | to have transparency (how can you have transparent
             | leather/velvet?).
             | 
             | Liquid Glass is actually an extension of the foundation
             | laid by iOS 7.
             | 
             | Many parts of the iOS 7 transition guide might as well have
             | been written for Liquid Glass:
             | 
             | - "Make sure that app content is discernible through
             | translucent UI elements--such as bars and keyboards--and
             | the transparent status bar"
             | 
             | - "Examine your app for hard-coded UI values--such as sizes
             | and positions--and replace them with those you derive
             | dynamically from system-provided values."
             | 
             | https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/U
             | s...
        
         | aaomidi wrote:
         | I decided to install the beta to get a more informed opinion. I
         | think the UI looks better when you're holding it vs seeing it
         | in the pictures.
         | 
         | Control center, however, sucks.
        
           | danieldk wrote:
           | I installed the iOS beta and thought it was as bad, if not
           | worse than the WWDC demos. In a lot of cases, text becomes
           | outright unreadable. Control Center looks like a mess with
           | all the transparency.
           | 
           | Like the grandparent I'm much more excited by Material Design
           | 3 Expressive.
        
             | argsnd wrote:
             | There's some instances of text illegibility that seems to
             | be caused by buggy contrast detection and I think they'll
             | probably fix that pretty easily since this is only the
             | first beta. I think the readability concerns are really
             | overblown.
        
           | MisterBiggs wrote:
           | Same experience. I hopped on the beta because I thought the
           | current version was going to be really bad and I wanted to
           | watch them move towards something more functional. Its
           | definitely not perfect but the way that the UI reacts in real
           | time to holding the phone and elements moving makes it work
           | really well and isn't something you can capture in a
           | screenshot or video.
        
         | LorenDB wrote:
         | My main complaint with Material Expressive is that every other
         | button seems to be 85% padding and 15% actual content. What
         | happened to reasonable information density?
        
           | legitster wrote:
           | For control surfaces, padding prevents misclicks. It's
           | actually very important part of perceived interface quality
           | when dealing with a handheld touchscreen device.
        
             | robocat wrote:
             | Different topic: CSS doesn't have a good way to manage
             | nearby clicks? A tap just a few px outside a button should
             | click the button? <Input>s can steal focus from nearby taps
             | on Mobile Safari (which can also be a fuckup). I hate
             | iPhone taps that slip a little and scrollable areas having
             | queer interactions (causing usability/accessibility
             | issues).
        
               | crazygringo wrote:
               | You could, but you don't want it to. Buttons are e.g.
               | often floating above content, or adjacent to other
               | buttons.
               | 
               | It's just as bad to click a button you _don 't_ want to,
               | when you're merely trying to scroll, or highlight text,
               | or click _another_ button.
               | 
               | Making a button's clickable area larger than the button
               | itself can be desirable in limited circumstances, but
               | it's not a general-purpose solution.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | > You could, but you don't want it to.
               | 
               | Argue with Apple because Mobile Safari makes a tap close
               | to a button click the button (and it causes exactly the
               | problems you've predicted, and workarounds are
               | difficult). Do you do a lot of close testing?? Because
               | the feature is quite noticeable.
               | 
               | Try it yourself on an iPhone (ideally use something that
               | can do smaller taps than a finger, with zoom and without
               | zoom): https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
               | US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...
               | 
               | I recall that similar features are more obvious on
               | Android because you can make taps visible.
               | 
               | Virtual keyboards also have interesting responses to
               | close taps on key buttons.
        
               | gherkinnn wrote:
               | What's wrong with increasing the size of the button?
               | 
               | You can set a (pseudo) element as an invisible
               | enlargement of that button but then you will get
               | accidental taps.
        
             | jay_kyburz wrote:
             | Yeah, but the icons and labels could use more of that
             | padding and be larger so old folks like me can see them.
        
               | tkzed49 wrote:
               | There's literally a setting for this. There are separate
               | sliders for "display size" and "font size", the latter of
               | which just makes the font larger
        
               | jay_kyburz wrote:
               | haha yes, I tried to use my kids phone the other day and
               | I had forgotten how much larger I had set the fonts on my
               | own phone. It was impossible to read anything.
               | 
               | It's actually a credit to google that you can scale the
               | fonts up so much and then forget you had done it. In the
               | old days, the UI would be broken in various places.
        
           | xboxnolifes wrote:
           | Buttons are whatever for me, but the padding on things like
           | notifications and other information text is getting
           | ridiculous. The notifications are taking up 1/4 of the screen
           | and managing to only show 3 words of an email or text on my
           | phone.
        
         | jauntywundrkind wrote:
         | The layer separation on Material has been really not good for
         | me. The floating action button is so hard to notice sometimes;
         | I've reached out for IT help or support sometimes because I
         | just didn't notice it.
         | 
         | I haven't used it yet but the refraction effect on Liquid Glass
         | feels like it could be amazingly good at creating a sense of
         | layer separation. Static content it's maybe not going to be
         | awesome at, but as soon as the there's motion, the non-linear
         | motion around the bend of the glass, for me, seems to create a
         | very easy perturbance of regular motion that it feels like
         | eyes, in their radar like way, instantly know of, without
         | having to look closely and interpret.
        
           | cosmic_cheese wrote:
           | In my view the dramatic reduction of depth in Material 2 and
           | beyond was a real mistake. That was the one redeeming thing
           | it had over other flat UI design systems.
        
         | saubeidl wrote:
         | I agree, but that being said, I still think it peaked at the OG
         | Material. I miss elevation shadows.
        
         | andrepd wrote:
         | Superfluous animations, cryptic icons and UI elements with no
         | indication of function and capabilities, and ungodly amounts of
         | whitespace that make my 5.8" screen have less information
         | density than my 2009 Nokia. That's not what "legible and gets
         | out my my way" means to me.
        
         | SebastianKra wrote:
         | I'm also disappointed in Apple right now, but the screenshots
         | of the Calendar and Gmail Apps in this post are even worse.
         | Content in Gmail is separated by kilometers of whitespace with
         | not a divider in sight. The calendar reserves 10% of horizontal
         | whitespace for this crucial 2014 low-poly wallpaper...
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Indeed, but Apple still wins when it comes to "wow factor". In
         | a year's time Android will look old and busted, and Google will
         | have to respond with a similar UI refresh. Of course it won't
         | be as pretty, responsive, or slick but it will keep Android in
         | the running.
         | 
         | Turns out "pretty" matters -- a lot -- in UI. Sucks for those
         | of us who found Windows 9x, NEXTSTEP, or AmigaOS as the
         | pinnacle of usability, but users find themselves more
         | comfortable with a UI that looks modern even if said UI has
         | other detriments like lack of affordance.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Great, another version that my devices won't get.
       | 
       | Currently stuck between 12 and 14, and really there is hardly any
       | reason to update.
       | 
       | For technical stuff, better check here,
       | https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/summary
       | 
       | And the promised WebGPU for Java and Kotlin, discussed at
       | Vulkanised 2025 apparently didn't made the cut to Android 16.
        
       | whalesalad wrote:
       | material design + "Google Sans" is probably the most nauseating
       | combo imaginable.
        
       | villedespommes wrote:
       | I'm really excited about the Desktop mode, now I can finally
       | break free of Samsung!
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | FWIW, Motorola has also had this feature for years, but they
         | call it "Ready For", which is a terrible name.
         | 
         | That said, I'm also looking forward to the official Google
         | version coming to the rest of the Android devices
        
           | culopatin wrote:
           | I remember my Atrix had a desktop mode back in... 2011?
           | Something like that.
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | As am I though it's not in this release.
        
         | ZuLuuuuuu wrote:
         | I was also very excited about it and that's why I immediately
         | upgraded to Android 16. But it turns out that it is not part of
         | this update. The same with the new Material design, it doesn't
         | come with Android 16 update. So weird that they announced both
         | of these features as if they are part of Android 16.
        
       | zb3 wrote:
       | Ah, so the "Linux Terminal" app is not yet ready for any
       | announcements. This app with 3D acceleration enabling running
       | graphical linux systems is what I'm waiting for, but it looks
       | like we'll wait another year..
        
         | chasil wrote:
         | Connectbot has a local terminal that I have always used for
         | this purpose.
        
           | zb3 wrote:
           | But what I was talking about was kernel virtualization where
           | the guest OS performs at native speed and without any hacks.
        
         | adhamsalama wrote:
         | How does it enable graphical Linux systems? I mean, I did
         | already do this by running KDE Plasma on Termux, but why would
         | Google allow this?
        
           | zb3 wrote:
           | They did with "VmLauncherApp" and I was able to run Fedora,
           | however GPU acceleration didn't work.
           | 
           | Now, of course they removed the app :) But there's a "linux
           | terminal" app which at least in theory should allow something
           | similar since GPU acceleration was mentioned, but the app is
           | limited "on user builds"..
           | 
           | Note this uses kernel virtualization, so it's faster and more
           | properly separated.
        
       | ferguess_k wrote:
       | Let me guess -- they revamped the UI again.
        
       | t1234s wrote:
       | Can you use an external monitor with a usb-c hub and a bluetooth
       | mouse/keyboard in desktop mode?
        
         | nfriedly wrote:
         | It sounds like the new features are coming later this year.
         | 
         | But, some Samsung and Motorola phones already support that (DeX
         | and "Ready For"), and there's a kind of janky version that you
         | can unlock in developer settings for phones (including Pixel 8
         | & 9) that have video output but no built-in desktop mode.
        
         | jakub_g wrote:
         | On Pixel 8 + Android 15, I can already connect an external
         | monitor via "screen mirroring" feature. My keyboard and mouse,
         | which are plugged into USB ports in the monitor, do work.
         | 
         | However the annoying thing is that many apps which display
         | video (official TV streaming apps from my ISP etc.) detect the
         | presence of an external display, and prevent video playback
         | there. Sigh.
        
       | melodyogonna wrote:
       | Interesting that these are no longer tied to latest Pixel phone
       | releases
        
         | nsriv wrote:
         | They're bringing up the phone release to a late August unveil
         | and shipping this year, and the Material Expressive update will
         | ship after that, so it seems a big one time shift to attempt to
         | time it with hardware.
        
       | old_bayes wrote:
       | I love the detailed security features. Exactly what I want in my
       | OS.
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | As a long time Android user, I scarcely even notice OS updates.
       | My last 3 phones have felt like they were about the same device.
        
       | absurdo wrote:
       | Did they fix the localhost tracking issue?
        
       | idle_zealot wrote:
       | It's deeply disappointing to see that the multitasking solution
       | for tablets that Google and Apple have settled on is... desktop-
       | style floating windows, but without workspaces or window
       | snapping.
       | 
       | There's so much space here to experiment with tiling views,
       | scrolling columns of windows, whatever. Floating windows are
       | cumbersome enough when you have a mouse and big display to spread
       | things out on. I've tried this floating window thing in beta on
       | my Pixel Tablet and iPad's windowing on the iPadOS 26 beta and
       | they're basically worthless. A straight downgrade compared to the
       | existing split views. They'd have done better to just let me add
       | more apps to a split view.
        
       | hwc wrote:
       | If Android is getting desktop windowing, how long until I can
       | just plug my phone into a monitor and keyboard and have a usable
       | computer?
        
         | cbm-vic-20 wrote:
         | You can plug a keyboard and mouse into your Andriod phone for
         | many years. I haven't had one work with a monitor yet, though.
        
           | hwc wrote:
           | It almost works. But the monitor just mirrors the phone,
           | including its weird aspect ratio and font size.
           | 
           | It's almost usable for playing movies on a TV, but that's
           | about it.
        
         | izacus wrote:
         | You could do that for years with Samsung phones already.
        
           | fsflover wrote:
           | No, you can't. There's no usable desktop software that you
           | can run there. Artificial restrictions will stay, although
           | might be slightly relaxed. In contrast with Librem 5 running
           | GNU/Linux (my daily driver) this is already a reality.
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | This is just weird goal post moving.
        
       | mcintyre1994 wrote:
       | I'm surprised they didn't have live notifications or desktop
       | windowing. I guess features like that go from Android OEMs, to
       | iOS, then to Android itself. Do Google have their own Pixel
       | versions of things like that before they make it to Android
       | though?
        
         | ptx wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure notifications could always be updated after
         | being created. The actual change seems to be not that they now
         | support "live updates" (as the article says) but that the UI
         | now supports a customizable progress bar:
         | https://developer.android.com/about/versions/16/features/pro...
        
       | quyleanh wrote:
       | Detail of changes in here
       | 
       | http://android.com/16
        
       | ge96 wrote:
       | Funny my phone is cheap usually a version behind. Eventually I
       | notice the performance and get another one or the screen was
       | destroyed. Sucks how the version is capped too by the company ahh
       | well pro/con.
        
       | fcpk wrote:
       | One extremely disappointing thing that Android has been getting
       | under the hood with Google images is ... Play integrity. This
       | used to be a relatively simplistic system with three tiers: 0 -
       | you are not certified for anything 1 - basic integrity, you need
       | to have a genuine android device running google play services 2 -
       | device integrity, you need to have a genuine android device with
       | core requirements on play and no rooting 3 - strong integrity,
       | you need a locked bootloader and signed image with recent
       | security update
       | 
       | This API/requirements set was uniquely put by pressure from
       | various vendors(think banks and various "security-certification"
       | obsessed parties), and was already quite unpleasant, as it
       | excludes any form of rooting, even if your root-access is adb
       | only. But it gets worse as now non-official images are getting
       | excluded not only from strong integrity[0] but also device
       | integrity. Numerous apps are now requiring device integrity and
       | hence won't be usable even on a locked, signed android image if
       | it's not google or vendor-official.
       | 
       | It actually gets worse. Google has been silently restricting the
       | api results(as of may): - basic requires a certified device with
       | an android platform key attestation - device now requires a
       | hardware verified boot, with locked bootloader and recent
       | security patch. This excludes lots of devices - strong requires
       | security patch on all partitions
       | 
       | And it gets even worse. On recent play stores & android versions,
       | as apps have to be installed or updated by google play to get a
       | full integirty response. no more sideloading APKs or alternative
       | stores.
       | 
       | This is nothing but a clear move to a full lock-in to play store,
       | where the majority of vendors live, to end up with a fully locked
       | a-la-apple ecosystem. This doesn't improve security, people that
       | know still have ways to bypass those restrictions when needed.
       | All it does is give the illusion of safety.
       | 
       | I would personally feel like: 1 - rooting should be allowed on a
       | certified device with most apps still working. This could be done
       | with a locked bootloader too if they provided such an image for
       | debug. 2 - alternative os, like graphene, should be given a way
       | to pass all attestations, as well as alternative stores, provided
       | they follow a set of constraints.
       | 
       | With this in mind, I can't be positive about android 16 and new
       | versions going down a grim locked future.
       | 
       | [0] https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/6361-play-integrity-api-
       | and...
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | Not available for Pixel/XL, Pixel 2/XL, Pixel 3/XL, Pixel 3a/XL,
       | Pixel 4/XL, Pixel 4a, Pixel 4a 5G, Pixel 5, or Pixel 5a.
       | 
       | I have Pixel 4a and I wanted to get Android 16 to get the smaller
       | notification tile buttons back.
        
       | AbuAssar wrote:
       | I'll take Material Expressive over iOS's liquid glass any day.
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-10 23:00 UTC)