[HN Gopher] Containerization is a Swift package for running Linu...
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Containerization is a Swift package for running Linux containers on
macOS
Author : gok
Score : 174 points
Date : 2025-06-09 20:53 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| rvz wrote:
| Requires an Apple Silicon Mac to run.
|
| > You need an Apple silicon Mac to build and run
| Containerization.
|
| > To build the Containerization package, your system needs
| either:
|
| > macOS 15 or newer and Xcode 26 Beta
|
| > macOS 26 Beta 1 or newer
|
| Those on Intel Macs, this is your last chance to switch to Apple
| Silicon, (Sequoia was the second last)[0] as macOS Tahoe is the
| last version to support Intel Macs.
|
| [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41560423
| keysdev wrote:
| Any linux or bsd that has goodhardwawe support for intel mac?
| bjackman wrote:
| For the older ones with Broadcom WiFi I was able to get stock
| Ubuntu working great by following this:
|
| https://askubuntu.com/questions/55868/installing-broadcom-
| wi...
|
| Not sure about the newer ones.
|
| Gathering this information and putting together a distro to
| rescue old Macbooks from the e-waste bin would be a
| worthwhile project. As far as I can tell they're great
| hardware.
|
| I imagine things get harder once you get into the USB-C era.
| monkey_monkey wrote:
| This site is very useful for getting Linux on more recent
| Intel Macs - I was able to get Ubuntu running on a 2018 MBA
|
| https://t2linux.org/
| haiku2077 wrote:
| Also, there are some really amazing deals on used/refurb M2
| Macs out there. ~$700 for a Macbook Air is a pretty great
| value, if you can live with 16GB of RAM and a okay but not
| amazing screen.
| socalgal2 wrote:
| a 30% discount for a 3 yr old machine is good? A new one is
| $999.
| DrBenCarson wrote:
| When the 3yo machine does 100% of what you need without
| missing a beat and has 8h screen-on battery life, yes, yes,
| it is
| nicoburns wrote:
| Even better deals on M1s which aren't much slower than M2s
| paxys wrote:
| $450 for a M4 Mac mini (at Microcenter, but Best Buy will
| price match) is possibly the best computer hardware deal out
| there. It is an incredible machine.
| pjmlp wrote:
| That was officially communicated at the state of the union
| session.
| newman314 wrote:
| I wonder how this will affect apps like Orbstack
| SparkyMcUnicorn wrote:
| My guess is that Orbstack might switch to using this, and it'll
| just be a more competitive space with better open source
| options popping up.
|
| People still want the nice UI/UX, and this is just a Swift
| package.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Orbstack also does kubernetes etc
| 9dev wrote:
| Huh. I suppose it's a good thing I never came around to
| migrating our team from docker desktop to Orbstack, even though
| it seems like they pioneered a lot of the Apple implementation
| perks...
| rfoo wrote:
| This does not support memory ballooning yet. But they have
| documented custom kernel support, so, goodbye OrbStack.
| worldsavior wrote:
| Orbstack is docker. People might still prefer docker.
| outcoldman wrote:
| Not sure what exactly is happening, but feels very slow. Builds
| are taking way longer. Tried to run builder with -c and -m to add
| more CPU and memory.
| tibbar wrote:
| What setup are you comparing this to? In the past silicon Macs
| plus, say, Rancher Desktop have been happy to pretend to build
| an x86 image for me, but those images have generally not
| actually worked for me on actual x86 hardware.
| outcoldman wrote:
| Comparing to Docker for Mac. Running on MBA M2. Building a
| 5GB image (packaging enterprise software).
|
| Docker for Mac builds it in 4 minutes.
|
| container tool... 17 minutes. Maybe even more. And I did set
| the cpu and memory for the builder as well to higher number
| than defaults (similar what Docker for Mac is set for). And
| in reality it is not the build stage, but "=> exporting to
| oci image format" that takes forever.
|
| Running containers - have not seen any issues yet.
| candiddevmike wrote:
| Wonder how Docker feels about this. I'd assume a decent amount of
| Docker for Desktop is on Mac...
| paxys wrote:
| Well it makes developing Docker Desktop infinitely easier for
| them, since they no longer need to start their own Linux VM
| under the hood. I think the software is "sticky" enough that
| people will still prefer to use Docker Desktop for the familiar
| CLI and UX, Docker Compose, and all the Docker-specific quirks
| that make migrating to a different container runtime basically
| impossible.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I never used docker desktop and am struggling to understand
| what you are supposed to be doing with a gui in a
| docker/container context.
| arjonagelhout wrote:
| For me, Docker Desktop is simply an easy way to launch the
| Docker daemon and inspect some created images and their
| corresponding logs. Other than that, the cli suffices.
| stackskipton wrote:
| GUI lets you look at logs quickly, there is buttons to
| click quickly open http://localhost:<port>, stop and start
| containers, get shell in container and bunch of other stuff
| that people developing or testing against containers need
| locally.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I am surprised a developer would not have chosen to
| redirect the port at run time already and would not be
| running the containers in the foreground in the first
| place.
| phinnaeus wrote:
| Dropbox copypasta goes here
| cogman10 wrote:
| Probably about the same way they feel about podman.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| Podman is fairly niche. This is an Apple product that Apple
| developer circles will push hard.
| cogman10 wrote:
| I agree, Apple has a lot of weight. Podman, however, also
| has a fair bit of heft behind it (IBM via Redhat).
|
| I'll not deny that it's a bit niche, but not so much so
| that it's completely unknown.
| sneak wrote:
| Docker Desktop is closed source proprietary software and this
| is free software, so this is a win (for us, at least).
| IshKebab wrote:
| Getting worried about WSL I see!
| SkepticalWhale wrote:
| Whenever I have to develop on Windows, I clone my repos and run
| neovim / docker inside of WSL, for the improved performance
| (versus copying / mounting files from windows host) and linux.
| The dev experience is actually pretty good once you get there.
|
| I'm not sure this is the same, though. This feels more like
| docker for desktop running on a lightweight vm like Colima. Am
| I wrong?
| justinzollars wrote:
| I'm excited to run Systemd on mac!
| watersb wrote:
| :-)
|
| It isn't systemd:
|
| > Containers achieve sub-second start times using an optimized
| Linux kernel config, minroot filesystem, and a lightweight init
| system, vminitd
|
| https://github.com/apple/containerization/blob/main/vminitd
| jamie0 wrote:
| disappointing theres still no namespacing in darwin for macos
| containers. would be great to run xcodebuild in a container
| sneak wrote:
| Surprising to me that this uses swift CLI tools (free software)
| and make, not Xcode.
| detourdog wrote:
| Xcode also has command line tools that can do the same.
| sneak wrote:
| Obtaining and using Xcode requires submitting to an
| additional license contract from Apple. Swift and Make do
| not.
| w10-1 wrote:
| Containers are mainly for CI+testing and for Linux workflows,
| so xcodebuild is not really an option.
| solomatov wrote:
| Does anyone know whether they have optimized memory management,
| i.e. virt machine not consuming more RAM than required?
| filleokus wrote:
| Looks cool! In the short demo [0] they mention "within a few
| hundred milliseconds" as VM boot time (I assume?). I wonder how
| much tweaking they had to do, because this is using the
| Virtualization.framework, which has been around a while and used
| by Docker dekstop / Colima / UTM (as an option).
|
| I wonder what the memory overhead is, especially if running
| multiple containers - as that would spin up multiple VM's.
|
| [0]: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/346 10:10
| and forwards
| open592 wrote:
| They include the kernel config here[0]
|
| > Containers achieve sub-second start times using an optimized
| Linux kernel configuration[0] and a minimal root filesystem
| with a lightweight init system.
|
| [0]:
| https://github.com/apple/containerization/blob/main/kernel/c...
| jbverschoor wrote:
| In my opinion this is a step towards the Apple cloud hosting.
|
| They have Xcode cloud.
|
| The $4B contract with Amazon ends, and it's highly profitable.
|
| Build a container, deploy on Apple, perhaps with access to their
| CPU's
| paxys wrote:
| It's quite a stretch to go from Apple launching container
| support for macOS to "they are going to compete with AWS".
| Especially considering Apple's own server workloads and data
| storage are mostly on GCP.
| sangeeth96 wrote:
| The CLI from the press release/WWDC session is at
| https://github.com/apple/container which I think is what many
| like myself would be interested in. I was hoping this'd be
| shipped with the newest Xcode Beta but that doesn't seem to be
| the case. Prebuilt packages are missing at the moment but they
| are working on it: https://github.com/apple/container/issues/54
| n2d4 wrote:
| Seems prebuilt packages were released exactly one minute after
| your comment:
| https://github.com/apple/container/releases/tag/0.1.0
| sampton wrote:
| Apple please expose GPU cores to the VMs.
| commandersaki wrote:
| Video about it here:
| https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2025/346/
|
| Looks like each container gets its own lightweight Linux VM.
|
| Can take it for a spin by downloading the container tool from
| here: https://github.com/apple/container/releases (needs macOS
| 26)
| 9d wrote:
| At what point will this Russian doll set of virtualization reach
| an end?
|
| Let's run linux inside a container inside docker inside macos
| inside an ec2 macos instance inside a aws internal linux host
| inside a windows pc inside the dreaming mind of a child.
|
| And inside that linux maybe run qemu with munal os
| [https://github.com/Askannz/munal-os]
| alexjplant wrote:
| > Let's run linux inside a container inside docker inside macos
| inside an ec2 macos instance inside a aws internal linux host
| inside a windows pc inside the dreaming mind of a child.
|
| Not even the first non-hyperbolic part of what you wrote is
| correct. "Container" most often refers to OS-level
| virtualization on Linux hosts using a combination of cgroups,
| resource groups, SDN, and some mount magic (among other
| things). MacOS is BSD-based and therefore doesn't support the
| first two things in that list. Apple can either write a
| compatibility shim that emulates this functionality or
| virtualize the Linux kernel to support it. They chose the
| latter. There is no Docker involved.
|
| This is a completely sane and smart thing for them to do. Given
| the choice I'd still much rather run Linux but this brings
| macOS a step closer to parity with such.
| sho_hn wrote:
| Linux has won.
| joshdavham wrote:
| Will this likely have any implications for tools like 'act' for
| running local GitHub actions? I've had some trouble running act
| on apple silicon in the past.
| roberttod wrote:
| I need to look into this a little more, but can anyone tell me if
| this could be used to bundle a Linux container into a MacOS app?
| I can think of a couple of places that might be useful, for
| example giving a GPT access to a Linux environment without it
| having access to run root CLI commands.
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(page generated 2025-06-09 23:00 UTC)