[HN Gopher] <Blink> and <Marquee> (2020)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       <Blink> and <Marquee> (2020)
        
       Author : ghssds
       Score  : 188 points
       Date   : 2025-06-08 04:17 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (danq.me)
 (TXT) w3m dump (danq.me)
        
       | latchkey wrote:
       | Do you remember when there was a brief bug in Netscape that
       | enabled multiple <title> tags to effectively animate the window
       | title? That was a fun one.
        
         | 9rx wrote:
         | In a similar vein, the little animated messages in the status
         | bar was peak internet.
        
       | satiric wrote:
       | Considering the marquee tag works in basically all browsers [1],
       | has anyone here actually found a good, unironic use for it in
       | today's world of crazy CSS animations?
       | 
       | [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
       | US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...
        
         | 90s_dev wrote:
         | Yeah, to _really_ emphasize an important message.
        
         | seanhunter wrote:
         | The correct use is alongside the "man with a spade".jpg to let
         | people know your page is under construction.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | "Hey! Stickly Man! WHAAAAAAAAAAAT are you doing!"
           | 
           | https://homestarrunner.com/toons/under-construction
        
         | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
         | Plex does something very similar to marquee to display an
         | actors name when it's too long to fit under their profile pic.
         | Seems like a good use.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Music players, including car radios and portable CD and
           | MiniDisc players, did that around 25 years ago. It's sort-of
           | a standard UI pattern for variable-length text in a fixed-
           | size display.
        
         | bradly wrote:
         | I use a bunch of marquees to create an animated scene on my
         | homepage[0]. Different speeds for a parallax effect and even
         | some multi-axis marquees for rain effect.
         | 
         | [0]: https://bradlyfeeley.com/ (no idea which browsers it
         | renders properly in)
        
           | edoceo wrote:
           | Trees and clouds! (Pixel + Chrome)
        
         | mbo wrote:
         | I use it to display RSS feeds on my personal website
         | (https://maxbo.me) as a allusion to news tickers (which are
         | themselves an allusion to ticker tape machines:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticker_tape)
        
         | chrismorgan wrote:
         | It's used _all over the place_ on Indian government websites,
         | old and new. Often by  <marquee>, sometimes by JS, maybe
         | sometimes by CSS.
         | 
         | I never figured out why the actual <marquee> tag has a low
         | frame rate. Maybe it's to make it more unpleasant so you won't
         | want to use it. Certainly I would use a CSS animation instead
         | for the frame rate reason, if I was forced to put a marquee on
         | a page.
        
         | senfiaj wrote:
         | Perhaps better semantics?
        
         | sparkie wrote:
         | They can be useful in a tabbed interface. Since the width of a
         | tab is limited, and may not be large enough to fit in the text,
         | scrolling the text in the active tab title may be better than
         | hovering to show a tooltip (Though we should use the tooltip
         | for the inactive tabs).
        
       | yakattak wrote:
       | I know it's horrible design but I love using <marquee> to test
       | things in HTML sometimes.
        
       | bryanrasmussen wrote:
       | needs <xmp>, no pre is not a replacement.
        
       | 90s_dev wrote:
       | I really need to repurpose 90s.dev asap.
       | 
       | And not just to be another neocities.
       | 
       | There's so much _lost joy and wonder_ to recover.
        
         | dgfitz wrote:
         | "Username checks out" - Reddit
         | 
         | Sincerely, just do what you love with it, don't market it.
        
       | moralestapia wrote:
       | Never got the hate to these.
       | 
       | I think some people just want to feel important by diminishing
       | things they see others diminishing, makes up from not having
       | thoughts of one's own.
       | 
       | This applies to everything, not just HTML obv.
        
         | k1t wrote:
         | People generally hate things that try to steal their attention
         | away from the thing they are trying to focus on.
         | 
         | It doesn't matter if it's a scrolling marquee, an animated gif,
         | some Flash, a movie, a popup, a cookie banner, etc...
         | 
         | Generally, moving/animated things grab your attention and
         | people find it annoying.
        
         | DoctorOW wrote:
         | It's really simple, moving text is hard to read. As an example,
         | turn on the local news (bear with me, I work for a TV station).
         | You'll notice the scrolling ticker is likely simplified to
         | focus on one headline at a time, with more pauses in between.
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | So, it's bad on web but good on TV?
        
             | DoctorOW wrote:
             | The opposite. It's been phased out of TV, (more pauses,
             | less scrolling text) around the same timeframe that it
             | phased out on the web. I threw together a visual
             | comparison: https://gifrun.azureedge.net/video/4e99ff8b2741
             | 4bbb93c3cc297...
        
               | moralestapia wrote:
               | Wow. Great comparison, thanks!
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | As others have said: scrolling text is harder to read than non-
         | scrolling text. Scrolling text is useful in the real world when
         | space is limited. On the web, there is no space limit, so
         | almost no reason for scrolling text.
        
           | moralestapia wrote:
           | ???
           | 
           | What do you mean by "on the web, there is no space limit"?
           | 
           | If you're talking about the interface by which we consume the
           | content, I use a screen whose dimensions are finite. What do
           | you use?
        
       | neonate wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20201111125145/https://danq.me/2...
        
       | ksymph wrote:
       | HN hug of death?
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20250608044216/https://danq.me/2...
        
       | divbzero wrote:
       | Interestingly, the default <marquee> doesn't appear as smooth as
       | a CSS animation would be?
       | 
       | Playing with the scroll speed makes it feel smoother:
       | <marquee scrolldelay="50" truespeed>scroll faster than
       | default</marquee>
        
         | flowerbard wrote:
         | They weren't smooth back then by default either.
        
         | esprehn wrote:
         | In Chromium it's quite literally a CSS animation:
         | https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:thi...
         | 
         | All the code in that file is a fun read. <marquee> was
         | rewritten as if it was a web component using the public DOM
         | APIs (ex. It uses CSS animations and requestAnimationFrame).
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure that originally it was to reduce CPU load, and
         | later was left that way for backwards compatibility.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I was there, 3,000 years ago.
       | 
       | I remember fights over whether or not navigation in frames was
       | bad practice. Not iframes, frames. Who here remembers frames?
       | 
       | I remember using HTTP 204 before AJAX to send messages to the
       | server without reloading the page.
       | 
       | I remember building... image maps[1]... professionally in the
       | early 2000. I remember spending multiple days drawing the borders
       | of States on a map of the country in Dreamweaver so we could have
       | a clickable map.
       | 
       | I remember Dreamweaver templates and people updating things wrong
       | and losing their changes on a template update and no way to get
       | it back because no one used version control.
       | 
       | I remember <input type=image> and handling where you clicked on
       | an image in the backend.
       | 
       | I remember streaming updates to pages via motion jpeg. Still
       | works in Chrome, less reliably in Firefox.
       | 
       | I remember the multiple steps we took towards a proper IE PNG fix
       | just to get alpha blending... before we got the ActiveX one that
       | worked somewhat reliably... Just for tastes to change and
       | everything to become flat and us to not really need it anymore.
       | 
       | I remember building site navigations in Java, Flash, and
       | Silverlight.
       | 
       | I remember spacer gifs and conditional comments and what a
       | godsend Firebug was.
       | 
       | I don't know when I got old, it just happened one day.
       | 
       | 1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-
       | US/docs/Web/HTML/Reference/...
        
         | deadbabe wrote:
         | 3000 years ago, when Ancient Egyptians argued over how they
         | should format Papyrus text.
        
           | SvenL wrote:
           | I think this is a reference to a LotR meme.
           | https://youtu.be/Q63_FxegFsQ?feature=shared
        
             | bornfreddy wrote:
             | For those who prefer not to visit yt, the quote "I was
             | there, Gandalf. I was there three thousand years ago"
             | refers to Elrond talking about the time when Isildur took
             | the One Ring from Sauron.
        
         | iforgotpassword wrote:
         | I made a webchat with frames; an infinitely-loading top part
         | for the text, and the bottom an input box that received 204 to
         | not reload when you sent a message. I guess that was the most
         | elegant way to do it in the IE4+ days. The top part could also
         | receive a small <script> that would reload the frame on the
         | right, containing the user list. Fun times. Used it with a
         | couple class mates around 2000 iirc.
        
           | vanviegen wrote:
           | I managed to get real-time chat (and other real-time colab)
           | working on IE4+ using long polling, by continuously adding
           | <script> tags from JavaScript. The server would delay
           | answering until there were new messages available, or some
           | timeout. This was even before xmlhttprequest. Who needs
           | websocket? :-)
        
             | distances wrote:
             | Sounds fancy! My solution back then was infinitely auto-
             | updating a frame with a meta refresh tag. It would receive
             | a new <script> block that would update the contents of
             | other frames. This of course wouldn't give real-time
             | functionality.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | Fun, until you had dial up so slow the refresh happened
               | again before anything on the page fully loaded (mostly an
               | issue with images)
        
           | troupo wrote:
           | It's still a way (with a frame autorefresh) to make chats on
           | Tor, since many users will have JS turned off
        
         | perilunar wrote:
         | Been there, have done (most of) this. Never used Silverlight,
         | but did use VRML, Java Applets, and Chromeffects.
         | 
         | I remember writing image maps by hand, getting the point
         | coordinates directly from the image in Photoshop.
         | 
         | Re version control: learned very early on to make a backup of a
         | website before making any changes. Our version control was
         | /site/yyyymmdd/
        
         | atemerev wrote:
         | Spacer gifs, OMG, the memories! <table> should be enough for
         | everyone.
         | 
         | What is the motion jpeg hack? I made my own streaming too
         | before websocket... but I never heard of this.
        
         | 42droids wrote:
         | Started in 1998 with front page.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Fancy! Not even Front Page Express first?
        
             | FranOntanaya wrote:
             | Don't remind me, Front Page Express' generated HTML was the
             | stuff of nightmares.
        
               | xnx wrote:
               | Still better than Microsoft Word.
        
         | shawn_w wrote:
         | >Who here remembers frames?
         | 
         | I visit a site with frames several times a week. Nobody's ever
         | told the Open Group/POSIX people they're not supposed to use
         | them these days.
        
           | chrismorgan wrote:
           | Plenty of modems/routers still use frames in their management
           | interfaces.
        
           | reconnecting wrote:
           | I explained the concept of frames to a developer born after
           | the millennium, and their reaction was that it is a pure
           | magic.
        
         | jameslk wrote:
         | I remember meticulously using the photoshop slice tool
         | 
         | To export gifs meant to be positioned perfectly in HTML tables
         | 
         | For designs suited best for 800x600
         | 
         | All those moments lost in time, like tears in the rain
        
           | skerit wrote:
           | > I remember meticulously using the photoshop slice tool
           | 
           | I made so many newsletters using that tool back in 2009. I
           | remember a new designer was appalled I used it, and did not
           | write the HTML code manually... 70% of our receivers were
           | using Outlook and the horrible Word-based HTML renderer. I'm
           | not writing anything manual for that piece of crap.
        
           | codingdave wrote:
           | That is what Fireworks was great for:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Fireworks
        
         | reconnecting wrote:
         | 2. <BGSOUND>
        
           | andrelaszlo wrote:
           | I remember a website about Ski-Doo snowmobiles that my friend
           | was obsessed about (both the website and snowmobiles) in 1998
           | or so. It was from Canada, and the bgsound was the website
           | owner saying something in French.
           | 
           | To us, it sounded like: fjanfny, hmmhmmhmm, dadadada. I only
           | realized lately that the first word must be "bienvenue". It
           | would be amazing to find it again on archive.org but
           | unfortunately I dont remember more than this. :)
        
         | jeffreygoesto wrote:
         | I remember cgi.pm and the magic of communicating two ways.
        
         | b800h wrote:
         | I was expecting you to tell me that all of these moments will
         | be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
        
           | FeteCommuniste wrote:
           | "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe..."
        
           | mcswell wrote:
           | b800h, meet jameslk (see post a few lines above yours)
        
         | lanyard-textile wrote:
         | I remember when display flex was still new, experimental, and
         | not universally supported :)
        
         | zambal wrote:
         | Don't know if it was intentional, but your ramble reminded me
         | of the lyrics of Losing my edge by LCD Soundsystem. However, as
         | someone who also experienced most of this stuff, it was a fun
         | read either way :)
        
         | Timwi wrote:
         | I developed web software with frames and I thought it was
         | perfectly fine. To this day I still don't understand the issue
         | with frames. People sometimes mention accessibility for screen
         | readers, but nothing more specific than that, so I still don't
         | know what the actual problem is.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | All content on the web should have a unique, linkable, URL.
           | Frameset breaks that.
        
             | theandrewbailey wrote:
             | That doesn't stop today's dynamically updating pages that
             | also break the back button.
        
               | roryirvine wrote:
               | Frames also broke the back button when they were first
               | introduced!
               | 
               | Together with the other early problems - ugly borders,
               | proliferation of scrollbars, and limited browser
               | compatibility - it meant that frames were seen as a
               | usability disaster right from the start.
               | 
               | They never managed to fully shake that reputation even as
               | browsers improved in the later 90s.
        
             | ComplexSystems wrote:
             | That ship has long since sailed. We live in a world of web
             | apps with dynamically created content, AJAX, and so on. The
             | main entry point for the app has a URL, and then within the
             | app all bets are off. Same with framesets.
        
               | xnx wrote:
               | SPAs were a low point, but I've found consistent and
               | linkable URLs has gotten better with developers
               | recognizing the importance due to "SEO".
        
               | catlifeonmars wrote:
               | Also crawlers can now evaluate SPAs. Googles crawlers
               | will run JavaScript on the page making the SPA SEO issue
               | much less of an issue now.
               | 
               | Idk if that counts as a low point or a high point.
        
               | no_wizard wrote:
               | There se excretes to this, particularly if you value
               | speedy vs delayed updates to your indexing
        
           | atesti wrote:
           | If you right click a link and open in new window (or middle
           | click), the frameset was gone and only the piece in the frame
           | was visible. Also you could not bookmark anything. I remember
           | doing a frameset per content frame url automatically and also
           | redirecting to that frameset from inside the page via
           | javascript if the content frame's url was directly opened.
        
             | torgoguys wrote:
             | Framesets were great.
             | 
             | >If you right click a link and open in new window (or
             | middle click), the frameset was gone and only the piece in
             | the frame was visible.
             | 
             | Feature, not bug in my book. Same thing happens in today's
             | iframes. But for situations where that is a problem, the
             | spec could have been extended to support every page being
             | able to identify a preferred parent frame. Or browsers
             | could have changed behavior to by default duplicate a
             | frame's parent and siblings when opening a frame in a new
             | window.
             | 
             | >Also you could not bookmark anything.
             | 
             | Again a limitation of the spec that could have been
             | addressed rather than throwing out a useful feature. We
             | support have text fragment identifiers in URLs these days;
             | surely we could have supported URLs with multipart frame
             | targets.
        
             | AlienRobot wrote:
             | If browsers got around to actually implementing basic
             | features on browser level like making a frame navigation
             | work instead of coming up with new CSS properties that
             | nobody is going to use we could be all building websites
             | without any javascript.
        
           | echelon wrote:
           | We should have frozen the web from 2006 - 2010 or so.
           | 
           | We had Ajax, lots of modern CSS, but weren't hell-bent on
           | CSSifying and "SPA"-ing everything. Web standards hadn't yet
           | jumped the shark.
           | 
           | It's also before Steve Jobs murdered Flash.
           | 
           | Killing Flash was one of the biggest mistakes we've made. The
           | modern HTML/CSS/JS stack can't replicate how simple and
           | functional it was. We're easily dealing with 100x the
           | complexity now.
           | 
           | We let Google trick us into going down this path. And now
           | they're going to kill the web to keep us on their LLMs and
           | platforms.
        
             | shortrounddev2 wrote:
             | I agree. Personally I think we'd be better off without
             | social media sites or smart phones
        
               | mcswell wrote:
               | Punch cards. We need to go back to punch cards.
        
               | cebert wrote:
               | Why would we want to do that? The data density is quite
               | low.
        
             | okanat wrote:
             | Flash was a bigger privacy hole than HTML5 canvas. I think
             | we need to mandate browsers that block those APIs on
             | default and only enable them via permission. <canvas> is
             | often used in fingerprinting. So blocking its introspection
             | APIs would already benefit us.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | That sounds like a big deal until you realize that
               | nothing was private back then.
               | 
               | Most internet traffic wasn't even over SSL. It wasn't
               | enforced until 2018!
               | 
               | No CORS (first standardized in 2014), no cross-site
               | protection (first standardized in 2012).
               | 
               | Everything was the Wild West.
               | 
               | Flash was fine and could have adopted the same
               | mechanisms.
               | 
               | If Adobe (or the earlier owners) had open sourced the
               | player and the format standard, they could have won and
               | had the best authoring tool for the format.
               | 
               | To this day, Flash is the only downloadable binary bundle
               | format that can still run on your PC after being
               | downloaded. You can't download and SVG animation. It's a
               | bundle of brittle web tech slop.
        
               | JimDabell wrote:
               | > No CORS (first standardized in 2014), no cross-site
               | protection (first standardized in 2012).
               | 
               | This is not correct. CORS doesn't protect anything, it
               | _removes_ security barriers. The same-origin policy that
               | stops cross-site requests goes back to the 90s, it's been
               | in there about as long as JavaScript.
        
               | redwall_hp wrote:
               | Flash was basically a remote shell with some animation
               | tools on top. The Windows malware hell of the early
               | 2000s, with random websites (even a banner ad on the New
               | York Times once) doing drive-by-installs of early
               | ransomware. (Thankfully, cryptolocker ones hadn't started
               | yet...) And if you were a Windows escapee, the Flash
               | experience was absolute trash on OS X and Linux.
               | 
               | It also became clear that the source code was borderline
               | unmaintainable and/or Adobe lost everyone who knew or
               | cared about it after they bought Macromedia.
        
             | cardanome wrote:
             | Oh man, the good old times when you could get a job just
             | knowing a bit of HTML, CSS and JS. I so wish I could go
             | back.
             | 
             | Now I am micromanaging a LLM that gets to do the fun parts.
             | I have become the middle management I always hated.
        
             | GuB-42 wrote:
             | Adobe killed Flash by letting it die. It had plenty of
             | issues, none of them unfixable. Adobe didn't fix these
             | issues (security, accessibility,...) all while keeping
             | everything proprietary. It was unsustainable and
             | unfortunately, Flash had to go.
        
           | MyPasswordSucks wrote:
           | > I still don't understand the issue with frames.
           | 
           | I paid for 1024x768. Because of your frames, the content I'm
           | actually interested in is now restricted to some disgusting
           | and dismaying fraction of that. The borders of my bitchin'
           | 15" CRT are now committed to navigation (which I have to
           | scroll horizontally to actually make sense of) and what is
           | likely a LinkExchange banner on the bottom that adds
           | absolutely nothing to my experience.
        
           | ok123456 wrote:
           | It generally got a bad reputation because it was abused to
           | keep people on portal-like and aggregator sites. These sites
           | would parasitically add navigation banners and ads(!) to
           | content they didn't own. You had to be somewhat web-savvy to
           | know how to escape an annoying frame.
           | 
           | They also wouldn't fly these days because of CSP and general
           | web security.
           | 
           | When Google Image Search first launched, it surprised people
           | because they found a legitimate use for frames that wasn't
           | user-hostile.
        
           | sedatk wrote:
           | > so I still don't know what the actual problem is.
           | 
           | 1. Not adaptable to the variety of display form factors we
           | have today. In other words, not responsive enough.
           | 
           | 2. As others mentioned, not being able to link a specific
           | page. Maybe it can be overcome with modern browser history
           | replacement API's nowadays.
           | 
           | 3. A link to one of the frames not opening with necessary
           | navigation elements. That used to be solved by redirecting
           | the user to another page that would decorate the same page
           | with the frames around it. Quite cumbersome.
           | 
           | 4. Since all frame components are individual web pages, the
           | communication between them isn't straightforward except for
           | opening a link in another frame. Programming more complicated
           | logic (such as dragging from one to another, or sharing
           | components in other ways) would be quite difficult.
           | 
           | 5. Every frame has its own scrollbar. It's less accessible,
           | and looks terrible too.
           | 
           | 6. Analytics is harder to track.
        
         | brazzy wrote:
         | My personal website uses an image map for its main navigation
         | menu. It still works just fine.
        
           | ceautery wrote:
           | You're in good company, Paul Graham's site does as well.
           | 
           | https://paulgraham.com/index.html
        
         | rdrd wrote:
         | I remember working for a client who needed to support IE6 (with
         | all the insane bugs/quirks/limitations) and I'd despair every
         | time the designers would hand over a Photoshop design with
         | rounded corners. They also needed it to be responsive (at the
         | time mostly just different desktop sizes). Would usually
         | require cutting the corners out and positioning them in table
         | cells. There's a certain amount of dev resilience you build
         | having to do stuff like that by hand!
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | At least table rows didn't unexpectedly wrap to a new line
           | like float-based layouts.
        
             | rdrd wrote:
             | Even though it was a long time ago I still have IE6/7
             | workarounds burned into my brain, most of them float
             | related but also having a whole stylesheet for that damn
             | browser... <!--[if lte IE 6]>:
             | 
             | https://code.google.com/archive/p/universal-ie6-css/
        
               | emfrosztovis wrote:
               | I'm only 20 but when I immediately recognized this I felt
               | so old.
        
           | davidmurdoch wrote:
           | For some reason I actually really loved doing this. I
           | remembering feeling disappointed when css got border radius.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Or just telling the designers "we can't do rounded corners
           | for this client" (the client likely didn't care at all).
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | We worked with an internal design team, but basically just
           | one UX specialist who has zero comprehension of how HTML, CSS
           | or and web related technologies worked. At one point we where
           | meet with "I don't like that the site blinks!" ... What do
           | you mean by "blinks", we built it, it doesn't blink. Turns
           | out she didn't like that that switching pages would cause the
           | browser to load the next page and in turn there would be an
           | ever so brief moment where the browser would show a blank
           | page while loading the next page. This was in the initial
           | ASP.NET and Ajax days, to the end result was "wrap the whole
           | damn thing in an update panel".
           | 
           | For those who doesn't know the ASP.NET update panel was
           | basically HTMX before HTMX. The browser would do a background
           | request and replace the content of the update panel with the
           | html returned by the background request. Normally you'd just
           | use if for a form submit, e.g. like a comment box. The user
           | puts in their comment, the backend return all the comments,
           | including the new one and the browser replace the current
           | list of comments with the new one. We essentially put the
           | entire site in to the update panel.
        
         | connorgurney wrote:
         | Oh, man, this takes me right back. Scary how time gets away
         | from you.
        
         | crabique wrote:
         | I remember WML <card> tag, essentially SPA 20 years before SPA
         | even became a term.
        
         | cardamomo wrote:
         | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on
         | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-Beams glitter in
         | the dark near the Tannhauser Gates. All those moments will be
         | lost in time, like <blink> and <marquee>.
        
       | TapamN wrote:
       | My favorite trick with <marquee> was to nest them, with
       | different, alternating directions. You could make the contents
       | alternate between scrolling and stopping by setting the inner
       | marquee to travel in the opposite direction at the same speed as
       | the outer marquee. Or do more levels with alternating speeds to
       | make it zip around randomly. I think you had to set a max width
       | for the inner marquees for this to work?
        
       | flomo wrote:
       | "And the beast shall come forth surrounded by a roiling cloud of
       | vengeance. The house of the unbelievers shall be razed and they
       | shall be scorched to the earth. Their tags shall blink until the
       | end of days."
       | 
       | > from The Book of Mozilla, 12:10 (about:mozilla)
       | 
       | And now Mozilla is being scorched to the earth. The End.
        
         | atemerev wrote:
         | I don't know, I still use Firefox as my primary browser.
        
           | shawn_w wrote:
           | I don't know how people can use anything else, especially now
           | that Chrome doesn't support ad blockers.
        
             | trallnag wrote:
             | It still supports stripped down as blockers. For the casual
             | user something like ublock lite is probably perfectly fine
        
               | skeeter2020 wrote:
               | if you switch between chrome and FF (say work/home) the
               | difference are glarring though...
        
             | bonoboTP wrote:
             | Currently you can still reactivate the ad blocker
             | extensions, it's a bit hidden behind a three dot menu and
             | you have to confirm a scary warning but it's still possible
             | to run u lock origin at the moment. They might disable the
             | workaround later though.
        
           | flomo wrote:
           | Root for the illegal Google monopoly then, because that's
           | what Mozilla says they need to survive. (It's over soon.)
        
             | bornfreddy wrote:
             | I assume you were being sarcastic? I see it the other way
             | around - the sooner Mozilla gets off the drugs^WGoogle's
             | money the better the chance we get a proper competitor to
             | Chrome.
        
               | cubefox wrote:
               | The opposite will happen as they lose most of their
               | funding. They will have to fire most developers and
               | switch to chromium, to become yet another Chrome reskin.
               | Congratulations, you killed Firefox.
        
               | ripdog wrote:
               | Um, so, how are Mozilla supposed to get the hundreds of
               | millions of dollars a year it costs to pay engineers to
               | maintain an evergreen browser without Google's funding?
        
               | bornfreddy wrote:
               | How did they survive without their funding before they
               | got it? And don't say that web standards are much more
               | complex nowadays - yes, they are, because it is in
               | Google's interest to make them such. Will it hurt? Yes.
               | Will Firefox survive? I hope so. Is it a bad idea? No.
        
               | joshuaissac wrote:
               | > How did they survive without their funding before they
               | got it?
               | 
               | They were initially Netscape, a commercial company, so
               | they had money from their customers.
               | 
               | After the browser code base was handed over from
               | Netscape/AOL to the Mozilla Foundation in 2003, they got
               | donations from AOL, IBM, Red Hat, etc. which kept them
               | going for a few more years.
               | 
               | The Mozilla Foundation signed the deal with Google two
               | years later, in 2005.
               | 
               | In short, they survived first on commercial revenues and
               | then from donations, neither of which are substantial
               | now.
        
           | psychoslave wrote:
           | Same here, but this is in spite is the governance of the
           | foundation looking so out of rails and simultaneously lake of
           | better alternative I'm aware of with both better governance
           | and fine enough technological state.
        
       | 4gotunameagain wrote:
       | The good old days of writing html on the windows 98 notepad.
       | 
       | No 20mb js framework, no ide, no ai "assistants", just pure,
       | healthy, free range basement grown webpages the way god intended.
        
       | timpark wrote:
       | The blink tag was, of course, much hated back in the day, so as
       | an experiment, I took the binary of whatever browser I was using
       | (Netscape, I guess), searched for "blink", and changed it to
       | "blonk". Tada, no more blinking!
        
         | bornfreddy wrote:
         | Yeah, but if someone had used <blonk> you would get... blonking
         | I guess? :) Nice hack!
        
           | timpark wrote:
           | Exactly, haha! :) Thanks!
        
         | Waterluvian wrote:
         | I do this kind of thing with the Slack client (a silver lining
         | of Electron apps: it's dead simple) so that I can kill features
         | I don't like, such as hiding notifications or stopping the
         | signal that I'm writing a message.
        
         | username223 wrote:
         | Binary editing was/is good fun. I remember replacing
         | "__gnu_warning" with "__gnu_whining" to quiet some dumb
         | nannying around gets(). Yeah, sure, buffer overruns, but if I'm
         | writing some throwaway program, I can just not overrun the
         | buffer.
        
       | burnt-resistor wrote:
       | Ah yes, the <BLINK><MARQUEE><H1> to tell everyone the website
       | made in notepad in 1997 was still under construction in bold,
       | Comic Sans, and fuchsia on a yellow background. Don't forget the
       | lots of NBSPs so that the message scrolls off for even a longer
       | period of time and the reader has to wait for their computer to
       | shift the message back into the viewport.
       | 
       | What's missing about the retro experience is browsers and
       | computers were slower back that then, so large marquees would
       | blink and scroll with visible tearing.[0]
       | 
       | 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing
        
         | geoffbp wrote:
         | Image of a construction worker digging
        
           | burnt-resistor wrote:
           | Yes. And it should be animated as the background image so you
           | can't read any of the normal text in 6 px font without
           | highlighting it.
        
           | geoffmunn wrote:
           | also Guestbooks and the email icon of the word 'email'
           | rotating around a globe.
        
       | AndrewStephens wrote:
       | This comment is under construction - check back here often to see
       | updates!
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | Where are your visit counter and guestbook?
        
           | brazzy wrote:
           | Right under the web ring.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Don't forget the [NEW]
        
         | skeeter2020 wrote:
         | For which browser is this page optimized?
        
       | ryanthedev wrote:
       | This was a perfect piece of nostalgia. I love that blink was
       | created as a joke.
        
       | adamcik wrote:
       | A friend of mine would always put `<blink>` around his middle
       | name as a quick and dirty way to test for missing escaping and
       | possible xss. Back in the day this was surprisingly effective at
       | uncovering problems :-)
        
       | ajdude wrote:
       | I created this a while ago, and whenever I show someone they are
       | shocked to see there is absolutely no JavaScript; all of the
       | animations are done via marquee tags: https://udel.edu/~ianozi/
        
         | al_borland wrote:
         | I probably haven't looked at the marquee tag in 20 years, so I
         | could have just forgotten, but I was unaware it has a direction
         | parameter to allow for vertical scrolling.
        
       | HnUser12 wrote:
       | Lot of older India gov sites still seem to use these tags.
       | 
       | https://www.epfindia.gov.in/site_en/index.php
        
         | chgs wrote:
         | I just applied for an evisa for India. It was horrendous. Pages
         | wouldn't continue without telling you what was wrong (too many
         | or not enough commas in the address/phone field was one). When
         | returning to the form the pre filled data had quotes in, which
         | then wasn't valid. Missing labels on fields. Then the hilarious
         | "what countries in the last ten years, list all or get
         | deported" combined with "you have too many countries". They
         | only allow 20.
         | 
         | I don't know if it's the state of development in the country as
         | a whole or just the lowest bidder for a government service
         | problem.
        
           | HnUser12 wrote:
           | All of that is true. However, to be fair, these are older
           | sites. The newer ones are generally cleaner and usable[1].
           | Even the services provided is much more streamlined.
           | 
           | https://web.umang.gov.in/landing/
        
           | al_borland wrote:
           | This was to prepare you for navigating once there. I still
           | have flashbacks to the Delhi Airport. Every time I turned a
           | corner there was someone there asking to see the name on my
           | itinerary (a random sheet of paper I printed out hat I didn't
           | think I'd actually need) with my passport and ticket. It
           | happened so many times I almost missed my layover.
        
         | GranPC wrote:
         | Holy crap, that's a website alright
        
       | jameslk wrote:
       | They took away the <blink> tag from us, due to what can only be
       | explained as the high costs to maintain such a complex feature in
       | modern browsers, and late stage capitalism.
       | 
       | However, thanks to the brilliant hard work of the open source
       | community, we have a widely supported browser polyfill:
       | https://github.com/yocontra/blink-polyfill
        
       | InsideOutSanta wrote:
       | I find marquee extremely useful, for one reason: HTML injection.
       | 
       | I find it helpful to test for HTML injection vulnerabilities
       | because marquee moves, and it's a tag that (almost) nobody
       | intentionally uses, making it easy to identify when an attack
       | works.
       | 
       | I also find it helpful to show non-technical people the effects
       | of HTML injection, because, again, it moves. "This moves and it
       | really shouldn't move" is something people understand better than
       | "this text is bold and it really shouldn't be bold."
        
         | precommunicator wrote:
         | When doing HTML sanitization, I always whitelist marquee as an
         | easter egg (and almost nothing else)
        
         | rda2 wrote:
         | I browse Hacker News through a custom aggregator. This post is
         | how I found out it's susceptible to HTML injection - a (2020)
         | was marqueeing across my screen.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I was a Master Navigator of the Meat Mysterious[0].
       | 
       | My _magnum opus_ was a Flash site, that looked like a blank black
       | page, and revealed the page structure, in a fuzzed circle, as you
       | moused around. It was, literally, a flashlight in a dark room
       | interface.
       | 
       | You could probably do the same, these days, with CSS. Back then,
       | you needed Flash.
       | 
       | The space must flow...
       | 
       | [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_meat_navigation
        
       | Theodores wrote:
       | One reason people hate these elements is that they were overused.
       | 
       | However, with that over use, people were giving HTML a go. For
       | someone new to writing HTML, it was very rewarding to be able to
       | use <blink> or <marquee>. These were the gateway drugs of the
       | HTML world, and, anyone that used these elements would eventually
       | learn not to, or maybe not, if it was their mySpace page.
       | 
       | It is easy to hate on the <blink> and <marquee> elements, much
       | like how every snobbish graphic designer can chortle about stupid
       | people using Comic Sans, however, all of these no-no's had great
       | utility in giving people confidence to give things a go.
        
       | K0IN wrote:
       | in the German Mozilla docs there's was a warning: "this tag is
       | one of the worst things you can do to your users, please don't
       | use this" which they sadly removed.
       | 
       | here is the German version:
       | https://x.com/K0IN1/status/1025459517499367425
        
       | dmatech wrote:
       | The amusing thing is that even today, there's a "blink" method on
       | JavaScript strings. It's totally useless today, but it's still
       | there for whatever reason. In fact, they don't even HTML escape
       | the argument, so they were arguably terrible from the beginning.
       | 
       | https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe...
        
         | arp242 wrote:
         | Removing it will cause old code to throw an exception. By
         | making it a no-op the code will remain working. There's tons of
         | old unmaintained stuff on the web.
        
       | jabo wrote:
       | The day I discovered that marquee tags have a direction
       | attribute, using which you can make the text go up/down
       | left/right and use multiple of these tags, is still etched in my
       | memory.
        
       | shortrounddev2 wrote:
       | A coworker of mine unironically added a marquee tag to an
       | internal tool we were working on. Not as a joke, he just googled
       | how to add scrolling text and copy pasted it, without knowing the
       | history behind it
        
       | skeeter2020 wrote:
       | without the marquee tag how were we supposed to build the
       | scrolling LCD screens that dominated our physical electronics?
        
       | mcswell wrote:
       | I've wondered whether the marquee idea could be behind the UFOs/
       | UAPs that appear to move extremely fast. Specifically, you line
       | up a bunch of drones that can communicate with each other via
       | directional (or just weak) radio or laser transmissions. Then
       | when a drone on one end of the line receives a radar pulse from
       | an aircraft (etc.), it sends back a stronger pulse than its
       | reflection would be, and simultaneously signals the next drone in
       | line. That drone sends off a radar pulse and signals the next
       | drone in line, etc. The effect, as viewed from the aircraft with
       | the radar, would be a somewhat larger (or more reflective) target
       | moving rapidly. The line of drones would not need to be straight,
       | in which case it could simulate a fast-moving object that
       | suddenly turns.
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | You can put a marquee inside a marquee and make the DVD bouncing
       | logo.
       | 
       | Did that on my first day of college, inside an .hta file for
       | windows and blew my classmates minds. #hackerman
        
       | acidburnNSA wrote:
       | Ahh, good times. I ran a "college dorm floor" website off my
       | computer for a while and included a 997-word marquee on it, just
       | rambling and talking about girls, depression, and philosophy. At
       | the very end there was an exclamation point that was a href to a
       | hidden page. Of course, someone hit view source to read the
       | stupidly long message and found the page anyway.
        
       | globalise83 wrote:
       | Controversial take: marquee is still useful, and I still use it!
        
       | zzo38computer wrote:
       | I think <marquee> is even worse than <blink> (even if you do not
       | use CSS).
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-08 23:00 UTC)