[HN Gopher] I'm Wirecutter's water-quality expert. I don't filte...
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I'm Wirecutter's water-quality expert. I don't filter my water
Author : rufus_foreman
Score : 64 points
Date : 2025-06-07 17:32 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| madaxe_again wrote:
| People are really funny about water. Recently had family visit us
| in Portugal, and they refused to drink the tap water anywhere -
| despite it being an EU country and complying with relevant
| standards, rigorously.
|
| Then again, they also refused to drink our water at home, which I
| know is nothing but H2O, as we live off grid and it all goes
| through numerous filters before hitting the RO.
|
| Then again, where they live (and drink the tap water), I also
| drink the tap water, because again, EU, safe - but it tastes like
| a swimming pool, as they dose it heavily with chlorine.
|
| Each to their own.
| mig39 wrote:
| In Portugal, I tend to fill a big jug with tap water (which I
| know is safe, I watched them put in the treatment plant!), but
| then leave it in the fridge. After a bit of time, the chlorine
| just evaporates. So it's nice and cool.
| madaxe_again wrote:
| The chlorine in the water is still there, but yes, the free
| chlorine (which is what you smell/taste) dissipates fairly
| quickly once it isn't contained.
| ajb wrote:
| My parents drink tap water, but every morning my father would
| pour away a few liters of water in case the supply pipe was
| made of lead and the water sitting in it overnight had absorbed
| some. (This is actually the official government advice in the
| UK, if your house is older than 1970. Of course, the better
| option is to replace it with non lead, if you can.)
| vsskanth wrote:
| It's mostly for taste at this point, rather than safety. For a
| long time I used to drink right from the tap, now use a filter
| pitcher simply because it tastes better.
| Crye wrote:
| does it taste better because of temperature, aeration?
| lagniappe wrote:
| lower TDS, less chlorine smell
| thrill wrote:
| Far less of everything that is bigger than a water molecule.
| s0rce wrote:
| Are you filtering your water with molecular sieves? Most
| water treatment doesn't work by size.
| torqueehmada wrote:
| Not the person you asked, but the chlorine level is very high
| in my muni water so I like running it through a Britta
| charcoal filter. If I'm in a rush, tap is fine.
| scotty79 wrote:
| where can I check how much PFAS my local water in EU contains?
| tetris11 wrote:
| https://foreverpollution.eu/map/
|
| It's not as good as the US's one though
|
| https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/map/
| constantcrying wrote:
| You should look at the website of your local water distributor,
| mine has very local measurements about the tap water.
| username223 wrote:
| The fact that potable water is so cheap in the developed world
| that you can use a gallon of it to flush your toilet is a miracle
| of civilization. Filter it if that makes you feel better, but
| it's a waste of money, and a dismissal of a major achievement in
| public health.
|
| But hey, at least it's not bottled water, which is basically tap
| water that has been put in a single-use plastic bottle and
| trucked across the country.
| jasoncartwright wrote:
| Tangential! I bought a 210L water butt to collect rainwater to
| water plants a while back. It cost PS110 to my door with the
| all installation parts. Out of interest I looked up that the
| cost to fill it with pristine London tap water would be ~52p.
| 211 uses and I'm at breakeven, money-wise.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| https://imgflip.com/i/2htzm9
| donnachangstein wrote:
| > But hey, at least it's not bottled water, which is basically
| tap water that has been put in a single-use plastic bottle and
| trucked across the country.
|
| Everyone acts like bottled water is evil until there is a water
| crisis, then it's the lifeline.
| username223 wrote:
| I don't understand your point. That $8/gal water next to the
| Starbucks checkout is not addressing a crisis when the
| baristas are rinsing out people's cups with equivalent water
| for free. The bottled water isn't next to the prepper-sized
| cans of dehydrated food in your supermarket.
| ghostly_s wrote:
| Wirecutter "expert" doesn't hold much sway for me with the
| quality of their reviews these days.
| aprilthird2021 wrote:
| Wirecutter is just a worse version of Consumer Reports where
| they don't guarantee they aren't running ads and accepting
| money from the retailers whose products are featured in the
| media
| fossuser wrote:
| It's even worse than that - they have the same anti-tech
| political bent as the rest of the legacy tech press.
| Thankfully we have better options now.
| righthand wrote:
| Question: Is there some implied negative critique of
| Consumer Reports here? I rather enjoy their work and the
| fact they're reader funded, but I wouldn't be surprised if
| there's something I should be aware of that's not clear
| from it (the way they test or how they accept another type
| of money). I know they review too many cars (every issue
| lately features a car banner at the top of the cover).
| brookst wrote:
| Not the person you asked, but I find consumer reports
| useless because they typically conflate functional
| evaluation (does the product do what it's supposed to)
| with non-functional factors (warranty, price) in a one-
| size-fits-all manner.
|
| If I'm shopping for a hand mixer, I want to get a list of
| the best ones and then make my own call on price /
| performance. I don't want to be told a $19 product is the
| best and have to carefully dissect the article to learn
| that it's not actually the best, CR has just decided on
| my behalf that the actual best product isn't worth $10
| more.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| So what review site would you go to if you're shopping
| for a hand mixer, or is there no such animal?
| torqueehmada wrote:
| Incoming anecdata:
|
| I'm in my 50's and consult consumer reports whenever I
| need to buy a white-box appliance. I've moved a few times
| so I find myself having to do this more than most people.
|
| The qualm I have with CR goes back to the 1980's when I
| was a bike mechanic for many years. I had a broad
| knowledge of all the current brands, and knew which bikes
| were cheap junk. CR had incorrectly ranked the quality of
| the bicycles largely due to how they "felt" while riding
| them. One bike, which was actually good quality, got
| dinged because it wasn't adjusted properly ("Shifter did
| not engage lowest gears." or something like that). That
| one article tainted my opinion of them for anything that
| requires "tuning" by an expert.
|
| YMMV. Mine has for 40 years. :)
| righthand wrote:
| Thank you that is very informative in the context as I'm
| rather new to Consumer Reports. There definitely articles
| strange rankings. For example I was looking for an
| reverse osmosis filter and this is something consumer
| reports just doesn't really have ranked (at least no
| searchable from their website). They have 1-2 models and
| they're both not brands that match "reddit reverse
| osmosis filter" when I do a web search.
|
| I do enjoy their studies on things like: the percentage
| of plastic particles in General Mills products.
| aerostable_slug wrote:
| > they review too many cars
|
| What do you mean by that? Do think they review new cars
| they shouldn't?
|
| Also, I suspect they may have found that they attract
| many new subscribers from people researching car
| purchases, so it makes sense to have fresh content on the
| subject to ensure those new eyeballs find value in the
| publication and decide it might be for them in the long
| term.
| bobxmax wrote:
| If I need something I usually just buy what Wirecutters
| recommends and I'm rarely disappointed.
| Uehreka wrote:
| I love this guy's review of the Molekule air purifier where he
| rips it to shreds while detailing his methodology. If nothing
| else, I definitely trust this guy.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| Money quote:
|
| > _readings of PFAS that exceed EPA limits have been found in
| just 8% of small public water systems (those that serve fewer
| than 10,000 people) and 15% of large ones_
|
| 15%!
|
| Anyone who trusts their municipal water supply because of
| *handwave* regulations and reports needs to read that again.
|
| Even if my water were 100% pristine as the author's apparently
| is, which they only know for their own homes because they've
| tested it at their taps half a dozen times with different
| laboratories, my tap water still tastes awful, and maintaining a
| dedicated three stage filter spout next to my kitchen faucet
| costs me approximately nothing and provides substantially better
| tasting water. And I don't need to worry about whether I live in
| the next Flint, Michigan.
|
| It took two whole years for administrators in Flint, Michigan to
| acknowledge their lead pipe crisis. What your treatment plant
| claims it does and what your municipal government claims your
| safety profile is do not matter one bit if you aren't constantly
| testing the water actually coming out of your taps.
|
| I'd rather just filter my water. It's much less hassle and I get
| better tasting water as a nice bonus.
| timr wrote:
| I'm failing to see your point. If you think it helps -- whether
| because of taste or personal trust issues or something else --
| then great, filter your water. You do you.
|
| The article is clearly for someone who is otherwise on the
| fence and doesn't have those issues.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _I 'm failing to see your point_
|
| That's weird because I'm pretty sure that my point is
| explicitly spelled out. But just in case, here it is again:
|
| If your trust is based in municipal numbers or statements,
| you should be aware that municipal numbers and statements are
| not trustworthy because there's a lot of widespread decaying
| infrastructure (and coverup!) between where they test, what
| they make public, and where your water comes out of your
| faucet.
|
| And if your trust is based on "Rah, rah, America!", you
| should know that 15% (!!) of water systems serving over 10k
| people have PFAS levels measured above what the EPA says is
| safe. (And if you don't think that 15% is a lot, holy smokes,
| that's nuts.)
|
| So if you aren't testing your tap constantly then you have no
| idea what your water is like, no matter what the city says
| their water is like.
|
| And if you are testing your taps constantly, it's less hassle
| and gives a better result to just filter your water instead.
|
| The author says "I don't filter because I constantly test my
| taps and they're good each time." That's not the same at all
| as saying that filtering isn't a generally good idea,
| especially for anyone who isn't constantly testing their
| taps. The author ALSO says "a fuckton of you have more PFAS
| in your water than the EPA says is safe, just not me, lol".
| The author also chooses to ignore that their good water today
| may become bad tomorrow.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| >> municipal numbers and statements are not trustworthy
|
| The claims of the manufacturers of filters, of course, are
| completely trustworthy. If you aren't testing the
| capabilities of your filters constantly, this is fine.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| You can sue a manufacturer for lying about independent
| testing and certification. Good luck suing your county.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| If you win the lawsuit against the manufacturer, do you
| get your health back?
| Xss3 wrote:
| The point is they have a reputation to uphold and not
| just skin in the game but multiple peoples livelihoods.
|
| Just one or two bad test results, or one failed audit,
| can sink a business like that.
|
| The county can have thousands of people scream for years
| (flint, Michigan) without panicking.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| I don't trust the manufacturer, but I can test the
| manufacturers water.
|
| I don't trust my municipality because they cheaped out on
| the corrosion inhibitors chemistry, leached lead into the
| water and my house is now filled with developing pinhole
| leaks. I've had five in four years.
|
| Hint, I don't live anywhere near Flint MI.
| jay_kyburz wrote:
| Do you test your water after its been through the filters?
| I'd have some concerns about putting my trust in some
| random filter company.
| SvenL wrote:
| And to that extend do you trust the company creating the
| test kit? Or their suppliers?
| donnachangstein wrote:
| > and maintaining a dedicated three stage filter spout next to
| my kitchen faucet costs me approximately nothing
|
| Calling bullshit on this one. I have one, it's positively
| wonderful, but the filters are expensive and per the
| manufacturer's recommendation you're supposed to change them
| all simultaneously. So when one times out, they all time out.
| This runs approximately $150 a year minimum depending on usage.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _This runs approximately $150 a year_
|
| $150 per _YEAR_ at american prices is approximately nothing.
| That 's a measly 41 cents a day.
|
| People spend far far more than that on far far more frivolous
| things without thinking twice.
| EA-3167 wrote:
| People spend an order of magnitude (and much more) on
| coffee every day, never mind smokers or drinkers who spend
| crazy amounts just to hurt themselves.
|
| Not that I don't love and respect Wirecutter (I don't), but
| I'm on team "I like how my water tastes when it's
| filtered."
| kelnos wrote:
| I suspect for most people posting here, $150 per year _is_
| "approximately nothing".
| tguvot wrote:
| filters are cheap if you don't use fancy branded system that
| came up with it's own filter that incompatible with anything
| else
| an_aparallel wrote:
| You generally want to avoid cheap filters as they
| apparently can be tainted with formaldehyde
| bernawil wrote:
| > So when one times out, they all time out
|
| Some units give you different fixed timespans for each. For
| that reason, I just use the Reverse Osmosis stage and ignore
| the rest. RO is the last step, and in theory it renders pure
| water meaning the only reason to have the previous ones is to
| pre-filter somewhat the water and extend the RO cartridge
| lifespan. Problem with that is, first, there's no way to
| gauge when each filter is spent. Second, they're priced the
| same anyway, so why even bother. Just go straight from tap to
| RO! Keep the post re-mineralization stage if you want.
| tguvot wrote:
| pre-filters typically have specified "capacity" in gallons.
| which is measurable. also if water is very dirty filters
| get clogged and pressure dropped. it's also measurable.
|
| "post re-mineralization stage" is actually "ph adjustment".
| Xss3 wrote:
| It isnt merely ph adjustment... You want some amount of
| minerals in water for your health, plants, and taste.
| Changing the PH isnt the concern in most cases, its just
| part of the result.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| Food gives you all the minerals you need. Matter of fact
| food can cover most of your hydration needs.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| What system are you using? My five stage filter system has me
| replace the charcoal filters once a year and the RO every...
| three? Maybe five?
|
| But let's assume it costs you $150 a year. Thats less than
| $0.50 a day for drinking and cooking water. I doubt you could
| buy any significant amount of bottled water for fifty cents.
| zahlman wrote:
| > three stage filter spout
|
| ... But does it remove the PFAs?
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| You can read the independent test data sheet:
| https://www.brondell.com/content/UC300_Coral_PDS.pdf
|
| But if you want a full RO system, go for it. They cost only
| slightly more and just take up more room under the sink.
| OptionOfT wrote:
| Your filter system is not set up for water that is
| microbiologically unsafe to drink.
|
| And if that filter setup also has an RO system your cost is
| more, as with RO you have a certain amount of rejection rate.
| tguvot wrote:
| last time i made calculation, it was still cheaper than
| bottled water
| mousethatroared wrote:
| I trust my municipality to give me microbiologically safe
| water.
|
| Because I trust bleach, not my local water authority.
|
| I certainly do not trust them to give me chemically clean
| water. So I have a $150 under-sink RO system.
| bilsbie wrote:
| Is there a chance it can get contaminated with bacteria? I
| worry about the water sitting in there.
| Xss3 wrote:
| A properly working RO system will prevent viruses and
| bacteria from passing. For the extra paranoid you can get
| systems with a UV sterilisation step.
| Xss3 wrote:
| Just to add, most municipalities chlorinate the water
| slightly, so its highly unlikely youll find anything
| alive in it.
|
| My water is fairly heavily chlorinated where i live
| compared to my previous county.
|
| Letting the glass of water sit in open for a few minutes
| after pouring helps with taste because the chlorine
| evaporates.
| vel0city wrote:
| If you have a lot of chlorine taste just having a pitcher
| in the fridge will nearly eliminate the chlorine taste.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| I've thought about this, but I don't think so. My last
| two paragraphs addresses what I think are RO's risks.
|
| First there has to be bacteria in the municipal water.
| The city does a pretty good job there,
|
| Second there has to be organic matter for the bacteria to
| grow. Again, cities are good with that.
|
| But even if you have bacteria in your water, a good RO
| system's pores should be smaller than a virus (really
| smaller than a prion) or it won't be able to remove
| metallic ions.
|
| But let's assume after two years these assumptions fail
| because the filters get old. Replace the filters and
| flush the system with bleach.
|
| My fear with RO are bad filters. I once had a Zero
| pitcher and it tasted bad, acidic. A few weeks later
| there was a recall that the RO membrane was leaking
| ionomers.
|
| Moral of the story- trust your senses. If municipal water
| tastes bad, it's bad. If bottled water tastes bad, it's
| bad. If RO water tastes bad, it's bad.
| malfist wrote:
| From someone that keeps aquariums, municipal water that
| is stripped of it's chlorine by carbon has the
| ingredients to grow bacteria. They need three things,
| carbon, phosphate and nitrogen, all of which will be
| present to varying degrees. Particularly nitrates and
| phosphates. They're not harmful until concentrations are
| really high but certainly enough to grow bacteria.
|
| Also consider what your holding tank and supply to the
| water, either through leaching, accumulation or simply
| time
| StopDisinfo910 wrote:
| I think the writer is sidestepping the main issue most of the
| people who want to filter their water are thinking about. Sure,
| your tap water is within the federal limits for contaminants. The
| issue is that these limits are significantly too high for PFAS
| out of convenience for the water supplying side.
| cypherpunks01 wrote:
| A surprising amount of Americans refuse to drink tap water
| entirely, in their own suburban homes with quality municipal
| water, or anywhere else they travel, holding the opinion that
| plastic bottled water is safer and better. Of course bottled
| water is regulated far less than tap water, and contains an
| ungodly amount of microplastics from manufacturing and storage.
|
| Under-sink RO systems seem pretty great to me, anywhere you live.
| With a small holding tank, municipal water pressure is enough to
| drive small RO cartridges, requiring no electrical power to run,
| and giving more than sufficient flow rate for all drinking water.
| I think the biggest downside is a few hundred dollars in initial
| setup, and cartridges every year or two. This seems safer than
| relying on the changing opinions of experts as to what amount of
| harmful chemicals are safe to drink.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| > _A surprising amount of Americans refuse to drink tap water
| entirely, in their own suburban homes with quality municipal
| water_
|
| It shouldn't be surprising that Americans might understand that
| their water might not actually be safe despite the municipal
| government saying it is. It took two whole years for
| administrators in Flint, Michigan to acknowledge their lead
| pipe crisis. Trust needs to be earned and maintained, and
| America is notoriously bad at maintaining critical public
| infrastructure.
| n4r9 wrote:
| > America is notoriously bad at maintaining critical public
| infrastructure.
|
| How does that compare with food safety in commercial
| products? That's the question.
| porphyra wrote:
| Even if safe, municipal water where I live (San Jose,
| California) contains a ton of chlorine and is super hard,
| making it unpleasant to drink. In contrast, bottled water
| consistently tastes fine.
| adastra22 wrote:
| San Jose water is absolute trash. There may not be (much)
| lead, but there are a host of other minerals and
| contaminants. It's also a roll of the dice whether you'll
| find Legionnaires' disease in your pipes.
|
| I have a whole-house soft-water filter for general use, and
| for drinking/cooking get 5-gallon bottles filled with RO
| purified water from The Water Spring on Homestead in Santa
| Clara. The municipal source for RO water matters, and Santa
| Clara has the best utilities in the valley.
|
| http://waterspring.com/
|
| Stay safe out there.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| sorry if this is a stupid question because we don't have
| chlorinated water in Germany, but do people brew green tea or
| good coffee with tap water? Doesn't it taste god awful? One
| of the things which I remember from my holidays in Spain as a
| kid, which is one of the few countries which adds it here, is
| that the water tasted like pool water.
| shigawire wrote:
| If you drink it all the time you are used to the taste. At
| least that's how it is for me
| donnachangstein wrote:
| > but do people brew green tea or good coffee with tap
| water?
|
| I use filtered tap water (under-sink type) which removes
| most of it.
|
| A lot of the higher end coffee makers like Keurig have
| built-in filter cartridges in the water tank.
|
| Most commercial coffee maker setups I've seen (hard-
| plumbed) in offices have a filter attached to the plumbing
| behind the appliance.
|
| Water can be safe/potable and taste terrible, and vice
| versa.
| justincormack wrote:
| Water is chlorinated in Germany [1]. There may be less as
| ozone may be used as primary disinfectant.
|
| [1] https://www.lenntech.com/processes/disinfection/regulat
| ion-e...
| lxgr wrote:
| At imperceptible levels.
|
| Compared to that, in New York, I can definitely taste it
| and it took some getting used to. (Ironically, at this
| point my senses seem to have been rewired to associate
| the taste of chlorine with fresh, i.e. non-stale tap
| water.)
| mousethatroared wrote:
| Its extremely unlikely that German water isn't chlorinated.
| Perhaps you are thinking about fluorinated?
|
| Chlorine in water is actually fine and tasteless at the
| concentrations it reaches at the taps - it's basically
| extremely diluted stomach acid.
|
| The problem is chloramines caused by chlorinated organics.
| These give water the swimming pool smell and are bad for
| you.
|
| The solution is easy - reduce the organics in the water
| before chlorination, and oxygenate (aerate) the water
| before delivery. But systems can get overwhelmed by too
| much rain and runoff.
| lxgr wrote:
| Chlorination of drinking water is indeed uncommon in
| Germany.
|
| If it's done, the level is often imperceptible, contrary
| to the US (I actually had to look this up - I've never
| tasted it in German drinking water in various cities
| myself).
| mousethatroared wrote:
| How do they sterilize it?
| an_aparallel wrote:
| My general experience in Australia when i talk about
| drinking RO water is that im looked at like a crazed madman
| who drinks "holy water"... So atleast hear i daresay its
| safe to say the average persons taste and smell must be
| piss poor
| rincebrain wrote:
| You can get inured to just about anything with enough
| exposure, barring exceptional circumstances where you
| have difficulty learning to ignore things.
|
| Visiting friends recently, they have well water which
| smells like sulfur from their tap. Visiting them for a
| few days, I do not get inured to it, but my friend cannot
| tell it's there.
| tomatotomato37 wrote:
| Yes, water quality matters a lot in coffee enthusiast land.
| They actually make little mineral packets that you add to a
| gallon of distilled water to get a "perfect" brewing water
| - I know since I actually use them for my espresso machine
| to fight scale buildup from my +10 grain tap water.
|
| Note this excessiveness is really needed for espresso
| though; a regular Brita jug handles more tolerant methods
| of brewing perfectly well (and to be honest most people
| murder coffee enough that the water is the least of their
| concerns)
| laex wrote:
| Do you have a brand name or amazon link for the mineral
| packets ?
| tomatotomato37 wrote:
| I use "Third Wave Water" but there are other brands out
| there
| darth_avocado wrote:
| One side effect of RO is vitamin B12 deficiency. And there is
| some debate around whether that is true or not, but
| anecdotally, I had developed a severe B12 deficiency to the
| point that one day out of the blue, I couldn't move one of my
| legs. I freaked out and went to the ER, and it turns out, 1 B12
| shot later, I went back to normal within minutes. The doctor
| hypothesized that I had developed a severe B12 deficiency
| because of RO water and that I supplement my food with B12
| supplements. The regular intake of meat/eggs wasn't sufficient
| to compensate for the lack of B12 absorption.
| cinntaile wrote:
| What's the mechanism here? Because it's not like there is B12
| supplements in the water.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| reverse osmosis removes minerals like cobalt, which are
| used for b12 production
|
| if you only drink ro water it can creep up on you, but
| takes some time
| mometsi wrote:
| It's not used for b12 production in human metabolism. It
| is, after all, a vitamin. Is this about cobalt deficiency
| in dairy and meat animals?
| s0rce wrote:
| How much Co is in your water compared to your food. EPA
| says just 2 ppb in tap water. This means if you drink
| about 40 fl.oz. per day you only get 2ug of Co from your
| water. Per the EPA you get about 2-20x more from your
| food. Pretty much in no cases is your water a source of
| nutrients.
|
| refs:
|
| https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2016-09/documents
| /co...
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/nutrition/php/data-research/fast-
| facts-w...
| kadushka wrote:
| I drank only distilled water for 16 years. No supplements all
| that time, just regular food. No B12 deficiency or any other
| health issues.
| unyttigfjelltol wrote:
| Similar risks regarding removal of sulfate from public water
| supply, or via filtration.[1] Who knew! Some of us were
| relying on actual nutrients from the water all along.
| Pristine water was, and is, a challenge for this cohort.
|
| [1] https://biomedres.us/fulltexts/BJSTR.MS.ID.006372.php
| mometsi wrote:
| In the linked article, rybett@aol.com uses the CORREL
| function in an openoffice spreadsheet to determine a weak
| correlation between autism diagnoses and sulfur content in
| tap water in a few regions of New Jersey.
|
| His other publications include a self-published amazon book
| titled Autism, Enzymes and the Brimstone Demons. [1]
|
| [1] https://www.amazon.com/Autism-Enzymes-Brimstone-Demons-
| Trill...
| bbarnett wrote:
| Interesting.
|
| I'm on a well, but with super hard water. So I have a water
| cooler, which I empty into a Brita pitcher, but just for
| drinking.
|
| Just for the flavour.
|
| I cook with my hard water though. Lots of stews and soups
| too, make bread, etc. So I suspect I get sufficiently
| mineralised as a result.
|
| For context, I was boiling a large pot of water and got
| distracted by a call. Most of the water boiled away, well
| over a gallon. I was left with a solid white disk of
| calcium at the bottom. Also, when I broke it to get it out,
| it was super sharp, almost cut myself.
| eesmith wrote:
| The only papers I could find in Google Scholar about this
| connection all come from India, and does not seem strongly
| connected. The study at https://journals.lww.com/jfmpc/fullte
| xt/2025/04000/prevalenc... , for example, says:
|
| > While some studies have hypothesized that the use of RO
| water could contribute to vitamin B12 deficiency, no
| significant differences were observed in this study.[20]
| Symptoms of deficiency were not significantly associated with
| serum vitamin deficiency status. Only VDD was significantly
| associated with fatigue as a symptom. This discrepancy raises
| questions about the current normative values for vitamin B12
| and vitamin D3 in the Indian population and suggests the need
| for further research.
|
| A whole lot of people drink RO water. If it were a simple
| correlation, I would expect to see cases and papers from all
| across the world.
|
| I also know there's a long history of false claims along the
| lines "distilled water sucks the minerals from your body",
| also called "hungry water". I first heard in the 1980s as a
| supposed reason for not using distilled water in a radiator.
| Or even commentary of it in the Carnivorous Plant FAQ at
| https://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq3385.html .
|
| Because of that long history, and the lack of a good
| mechanism for how it should work, I need a much higher level
| of evidence for a direct, causal connection.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| If water is giving you any nutrient in a significant manner,
| change your diet.
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| Some essential micronutrients such as arsenic are primarily
| sourced from water. You don't need much so most natural
| sources contain enough. There is actually a valid concern
| that obsessive over-purification of drinking water can lead
| to deficiencies of some trace minerals.
| rsync wrote:
| _Wow_ this has gone off the rails quickly.
|
| To wit: Arsenic is not an essential micronutrient.
|
| "Trace quantities of arsenic have been _proposed_ to be
| an essential dietary element in rats, hamsters, goats,
| and chickens. Research has not been conducted to
| determine whether small amounts of arsenic may play a
| role in human metabolism. " [1]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| There is substantial evidence that arsenic is a required
| micronutrient in all mammalian biology. This is not even
| controversial, you can reliably induce deficiency
| syndromes in a broad spectrum of animal models, and the
| operative pathways exist in humans. The effect was first
| observed in animal husbandry in parts of the world with
| very low background arsenic levels.
|
| It has the same toxicity and micronutrient profile as
| selenium, another extremely toxic but nonetheless
| essential micronutrient. Unfortunately, activists with an
| unrelated agenda have been spreading unscientific
| misinformation about arsenic to advance that agenda.
|
| Same story as fluoride outrage actually. Being anti-
| science is fashionable and most people are ignorant about
| chemistry.
|
| It is one thing that makes me glad I am no longer a
| practicing chemist.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| Eat a serving of rice, preferably American, without
| rinsing it.
|
| Enjoy your 10000% recommended daily intake of Arsenic.
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| Background levels are _much_ higher than current
| standards with no observable effects in many parts of the
| world. This is well-studied. There is a threshold but it
| is higher than people assume.
|
| Plant-based arsenic often has poor bioavailability. Quite
| a few plants people eat are natural accumulators but it
| just passes through. Pesticides and geology are the
| primary bioavailable sources.
| an_aparallel wrote:
| My RO system has a remineralisation cartridge. You def dont
| want to drink ph neutral water, it feels hard, and doesnt
| taste sweet.
| hollerith wrote:
| In your second paragraph you seem to be describing carbon-block
| filtration. Particularly, the maintenance of an RO system
| consists of a lot more than just replacing cartridges every
| year or two.
| margalabargala wrote:
| Could you elaborate? I have an undersink RO filter.
| Maintenance consists of changing filters every year or two.
| tguvot wrote:
| you need sterilize entire system periodically. and
| completely empty/refill tank once in a while
| margalabargala wrote:
| I totally believe that the system you have requires this,
| but plenty of others do not.
|
| Here's the maintenance manual for the one I have. The
| sterilization and emptying/refilling are done as part of
| the filter replacement, and not otherwise:
|
| https://www.whirlpoolwatersolutions.com/wp-
| content/manuals/W...
| tguvot wrote:
| " Maintenance consists of changing filters every year or
| two." it's not same as "disconnecting lines and pouring
| bleach inside when i change filter" or using
| "Manufacturer recommends using the Model 7301203
| Sanitizing Kit"
| an_aparallel wrote:
| You need to change filters as recommended, change o-rings,
| and bleach the fittings. Algae will develop on those. Thats
| pretty much it.
|
| I wouldnt run bleach through the filters. The filter medium
| saturates, and any further use will just recontaminate
| water
| zahlman wrote:
| > ... bottled water ... contains an ungodly amount of
| microplastics from manufacturing and storage.
|
| Is it worse than the other groceries we can't readily get
| without them being wrapped in plastic? Or storing leftovers in
| plastic bags at home?
| s0rce wrote:
| My guess is yes, because they can more easily get into the
| liquid. Unless you are talking about other liquids like
| juices or canned foods, those I would expect are similar or
| vary depending on the type of plastic.
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| The water in some parts of the US has natural chemistry that
| makes it unpleasant to drink even though it is safe. California
| urban areas are notorious for this, as an example. In principle
| you could remediate the water to make it taste good and remove
| any discoloration (also a thing in a few regions) with enough
| industrial processing but that would greatly increase the cost
| of already expensive tap water.
|
| People who grew up in one of these areas are habituated into
| never drinking the tap water even if they move to a city with
| excellent tasting and very high quality tap water. I've lived
| in extreme examples of both.
|
| You also see the opposite case, where someone who grew up with
| amazing tap water naively grabs a glass from the tap in north
| San Diego and has a "wtf is this" moment.
| PlattypusRex wrote:
| San Diego's tap water tastes truly awful. The first time I
| ever traveled to another city (Denver), I was forced to drink
| the tap water and could not believe how good it tasted.
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| San Diego has the worst tap water for drinking I have ever
| experienced in the US. When I lived there, pretty much
| everyone had a reverse osmosis system installed to make it
| drinkable.
|
| Fortunately, I live in the Pacific Northwest currently,
| which generally has some of the best tasting water you'll
| find anywhere. No one would dream of not drinking the tap
| water.
| mousethatroared wrote:
| A surprising amount of Americans live in cities that cheaped
| out on the water infrastructure and found out their water had
| lead.
|
| Like me.
|
| Luckily, I am very unreasonably distrusting of government and
| never drank the stuff.
| atoav wrote:
| I also don't filter my water, but I live in central Europe and
| our tap watrr adheres to stricter standards than bottled water,
| so there's that.
| m3kw9 wrote:
| Yep use it if it makes you feel better. I know water treatment
| people in my area have talked about the no need to use filters.
| doug-moen wrote:
| The quality of your water varies with the district you live in.
| My municipal water provider puts chloramine in the water to kill
| bacteria. Occasionally we get high levels of chloramine, which is
| disgusting (smell and taste), but the water filter removes it.
| Occasionally they flush the pipes, which turns the water red,
| which is mentally disturbing, but the water filter removes the
| rust.
|
| So while it's important to me that my municipal water is
| technically safe to drink, I still have a better experience with
| my drinking water when I use a filter. While it's amusing that
| this technical expert considers rust-red water to be "delicious",
| do they have family members, or friends that visit and consume
| beverages, and do these other people get to have an opinion?
| 9x39 wrote:
| To be fair, he does say he isn't anti-filter, and I think his
| article was to calm the horses and hysteria out there. I filter
| water too, but it is things like testing maps
| (https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamination/map/)
| that really help eradicate the brainworms that I'm slowly
| poisoning myself from the tap.
|
| I think the whole article was a pretty solid attempt at helping
| people like myself who tend to overreact when it comes to
| exposure figure out that the fear and the danger are often not
| the same.
|
| BTW, unless you were just being sarcastic, the rusty water was
| him talking about the filtered water from a LifeStraw -
| something that's miraculous as far as I'm concerned, seeing as
| I've drank mucky water out hiking through them just fine. Well,
| probably, anyway.
| calmbonsai wrote:
| Wirecutter was bad before the NYT acquisition and now it's lot
| any/all remaining credibility.
|
| Much like CNBC, it's completely "turned the corner" for me and I
| take their editorial as a negative signal.
|
| In other words, definitely filter your water.
| bobxmax wrote:
| > Wirecutter was bad before the NYT acquisition
|
| How so?
| timerol wrote:
| > I hated my pitcher filter long before I knew I didn't need it.
| It would clog up any time a bit of rusty water came through the
| pipes, which, in a 70-year-old building with cast-iron service
| lines, was often.
|
| I'm a little confused that this is used as an argument against
| filtering water. I get that iron is not a particularly worrisome
| contaminant, but I still don't want the occasional "bit of rusty
| water" showing up in my glass
| bradlys wrote:
| So, his suggestion isn't to buy a water filter system and filters
| that could last you 10+ years but instead to pay $300 for a test.
| Retarded. The NYTimes is such a joke and so is this guy. If
| you're living in newer construction in a place like NYC then
| you're likely going to be fine. I am in this group currently but
| I will be moving back to the bay soon and I will have to use my
| RO system.
|
| If you live in the bay area, you know you have to filter your
| water because it tastes like metal. We hadn't even had an
| electric kettle for more than six months in our startup with less
| than 5 employees using it, the entire bottom of the kettle was
| covered in 1/4" thick plates of various minerals. Obviously,
| water differs per city but this was a common occurrence
| throughout the bay area. The water, of course, always tasted
| poorly. I'm not even getting into how the housing stock in the
| bay area is decrepit and full of homes and apartments that are
| nowhere near up to modern construction standards. You have copper
| pipes? That's cool but you probably still have lead solder in
| those pipes. Who knows what kind of supply pipes are coming off
| the street. Yeah, your local supply probably replaced the ones
| that run in the street but the ones on your property? Unlikely.
| Your fittings? Still could have up to 8% lead until 2014. The
| amount of homes I'd see that still have knob and tube wiring was
| astounding. You can bet your ass that place still has an
| abundance of lead all over it.
|
| The poor tasting water in the bay area is reason enough to filter
| it - even if it wasn't for all these other issues like most homes
| not being up to modern standards. A lot of these water tests are
| done at the county's office. It does not reflect _what your home
| will add to your water supply_. So, yeah, getting at home test
| could be nice... for $300... or you could just install a nice RO
| system that will last many years and give you better water
| anyway.
| dbcooper wrote:
| >Why you should trust me
|
| Absolutely zero mention of qualifications. If you do not have a
| chemistry/chemical engineering degree, or something closely
| related then why would anyone want to bother with your verbose
| writing?
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| ah yes, degrees. i only absorb information from qualified
| individuals with degrees.
| brookst wrote:
| What qualifications do you look for, or do you just assume
| everyone who says they're an expert is actually an expert?
| bobxmax wrote:
| Wirecutters is a long-running very trusted publication.
| It's not a random rag.
| mihaaly wrote:
| Knowing something well is not dependent on formal education.
| Helps quite some, but not being a must. And more importantly:
| not a guarantee!
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| I'm a dude who doesn't care to run a chemical analysis of my
| municipal water every couple days. I filter my water.
| mihaaly wrote:
| Have you tested your filtered water - in various conditions -
| or you just trust it based on the words of others?
| recursivedoubts wrote:
| I just trust the carbon filters. Sorry.
| mihaaly wrote:
| Who told you to? : )
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| You just trust corporations.
|
| I mean I trust corporations more than I trust the
| government, but 0.002 is more than 0.001.
|
| You seem like a very trusting person.
| s0rce wrote:
| If you don't test it how do you know what filters are needed to
| remove the contaminants. You may be filtering out things that
| aren't there and not filtering the actually hazardous things in
| your water. Although you probably guess things like PFAS and
| microplastics which appear to be ubiquitous now.
| tonymet wrote:
| if you are someone who regularly cleans and replaces your water
| filter, it's probably not hurting.
|
| For most people their water filters are probably contributing
| more mold and contaminants than removing.
| internet_points wrote:
| How much PFAS does the average water filter add to your water?
|
| (How much PFAS do you get from plastic-bottled water / soft
| drinks instead of the stuff coming out of metal pipes?)
| torqueehmada wrote:
| Go find out and tell us. That would be really helpful
| information.
| s0rce wrote:
| You can probably review the wetted materials but
| fluoropolymers are more expensive and not required in
| consumer water filters so I would assume not much PFAS. If
| its some activated carbon and IEX resins then its likely not
| making things worse.
| knappe wrote:
| I go back and forth on the issue. I read our local municipal
| water reports but then things like this happen
| https://www.vaildaily.com/news/climax-mine-can-now-release-h...
|
| Denver water couldn't force the mine to continue cleanup of the
| molybdenum (because they're bankrupt) and instead raised the
| tolerable levels of molybdenum in Denver water. The same thing
| happened in 2017, 2010 and I'm certain before that. And then we
| have things like this https://www.cpr.org/2025/06/04/free-
| private-well-testing-ote...
|
| Colorado has some serious issues with mine runoff and water
| contamination.
|
| https://www.pagosasun.com/stories/the-day-the-river-turned-o...
| Arch-TK wrote:
| That's nice. In the UK, tap water tastes like chlorine. If you
| are unfortunate enough to have chloraminated water, just letting
| it sit is insufficient. You need a filter which can remove the
| chloramine. After this, the water is actually too hard to make
| good coffee with, so I either zerowater it or distill it and then
| mix it with the filtered water using a TDS meter to hit a rough
| reference point (EC meters are not accurate gauges of TDS, but
| that's fine, you just want a consistent TDS not a precise TDS).
|
| So sure, if you live in a civilised country and your water
| doesn't taste like shit and doesn't make your coffee taste awful
| and you trust your government to not give you poison or have
| tested your water to ensure it won't hurt you, go right ahead, be
| my guest.
|
| But I will continue filtering my water because I hate the taste
| of chlorine and want to make the best out of the expensive coffee
| I buy.
| storus wrote:
| After covid I noticed that drinking tap water was making me
| noticeably worse but buying packaged mineral water didn't (this
| was done over a few months). I later bought reverse osmosis and
| never hit that problem since. However, this year I learned that I
| live in a high-PFAS area (up to 300ng/L) so I am wondering if I
| was hitting PFAS overload somehow. Most of my flowers died
| quickly after watering them with the same tap water as well (when
| I still tried to have some house flowers).
| bilsbie wrote:
| Any concern about pharmaceuticals making it into tap water?
| Microplastics?
| constantcrying wrote:
| Where I live there are area local water reports, so you can enter
| your street and see where your water is coming from and a report,
| with quite a lot of measurements and including legal limitations
| for these measurements.
|
| Water filtration should be an informed decision, based on what
| water you are actually getting.
| foresto wrote:
| > It is also certified for Particulate Class 1, which is a
| surrogate for microplastics.
|
| Based on a web search, it looks like Particulate Class 1 means
| particles in the 0.5 to 1 micron range. Several carbon block
| filters are rated at 0.5 um, so I guess they're meant to handle
| those microplastics, but it leaves me wondering:
|
| Do any smaller microplastics exist? Are they likely to be present
| in municipal water supplies?
|
| All the filter cartridges that I've seen, and almost all the
| housings and tubes that hold them and the water, are made at
| least partly of plastic. Given that water typically sits in these
| filtration systems for hours or days at a time when the tap is
| closed, could it be that microplastics are leaching into the
| water from them?
| deepsun wrote:
| Well, the current US administration is all against the
| environmental protection, so I expect the article advice might
| change in the nearest hears.
| kdlskall wrote:
| The whole topic seems to be infused with a lot of loss-of-control
| issues...
|
| In the end, there's just so many more vague risks affected by the
| society you live in.
|
| Driving a bit slower will probably offset a great deal of those.
| dbg31415 wrote:
| Filtered water tastes better.
| t0bia_s wrote:
| Our tap water has strong chlorine smell. Since we add a filter,
| chlorine smell is gone and water taste better. When I drink
| unfiltered water from my parents house, I immediately recognise
| it.
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