[HN Gopher] Plutonium Mountain: The 17-year mission to guard rem...
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       Plutonium Mountain: The 17-year mission to guard remains of Soviet
       nuclear tests
        
       Author : jmillikin
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2025-06-03 10:06 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.belfercenter.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.belfercenter.org)
        
       | Arainach wrote:
       | The link to download the article seems broken.
        
         | brettermeier wrote:
         | I think it should be this PDF:
         | https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NunnLugar/2015/64.%202013.08.00%2...
        
         | wffurr wrote:
         | It wasn't immediately obvious, but the article is on the site
         | as html if you scroll past "the latest from Belfer". The
         | article body is weirdly far from the title.
         | 
         | Ah the article is also not the paper. It's a long summary.
        
           | raddan wrote:
           | Actually it's just the paper's introduction.
        
       | voidUpdate wrote:
       | The russians left a scary amount of radioactive material in
       | random places after the union fell :/ I'm reminded of the Lia
       | Radiological Incident (three men irradiated by the remains of
       | soviet RTGs) and the 1997 Tbilisi, Georgia incident where 11
       | servicemen were irradiated by a radioactive source in a jacket,
       | left over from soviet training
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | Don't forget the space nukes [reactors]! Some of them exploded,
         | and stringed the planet with Saturn-like rings of nuclear
         | dust[0]; others are slowly oscillating towards Earth like the
         | blade from the Poe story, to impact sometime a few centuries
         | from now.
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20190033494/downloads/20...
         | ( _" The NaK Population: a 2019 Status"_ (.pdf))
        
           | lupusreal wrote:
           | To be clear, nuclear reactors, not nuclear bombs. It's
           | droplets of the liquid metal they used as coolant in their
           | nuclear powered ocean radar recon satellites.
        
             | perihelions wrote:
             | It's both nuclear fuel and droplets, although the clouds of
             | metal droplets are much easier to track by radar. Several
             | of the space reactors did explode (were observed to break
             | up and fragment).
        
         | jodrellblank wrote:
         | Similar accident in 1980 when a lost Caesium-137 capsule in a
         | quarry became mixed into a concrete wall of a bedroom in an
         | apartment block in Kramatorsk, killing several people and
         | making others ill, for 8 years before it was found:
         | 
         | https://www.curiousarchive.com/death-in-apartment-85-the-kra...
        
           | voidUpdate wrote:
           | If you ever want to have a worrying afternoon, have a read of
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_orphan_source_incident.
           | ..
        
             | ikekkdcjkfke wrote:
             | I now want a bluetooth geiger counter hooked up to my
             | smartwatch with sound effects
        
               | nancyminusone wrote:
               | Here you go: https://www.radiacode.com/
        
             | boringg wrote:
             | Thats a much smaller list than I would have expected
             | considering it covers the entire planet.
        
           | m4rtink wrote:
           | Yeah, this one is super scary...
        
           | e2le wrote:
           | Not entirely related. Some scam health products are made with
           | radioactive material[0,1] (thorium dioxide) and can be found
           | in wands, baby clothing, pendents, cards, wristbands, face
           | cream, toothbrushes, and more.
           | 
           | Even more concerning given that these products will shed that
           | radioactive material into the environment and be ingested by
           | humans. The "quantum wands" as shown in the YouTube video are
           | filled with a sizeable quantity of thorium dioxide powder and
           | is possible to forcibly open.
           | 
           | They are illegal but continue to be sold.
           | 
           | [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7TwBUxxIC0
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA5bw1EV5I
        
             | lupusreal wrote:
             | Somewhere in China is a businessman incredibly pleased with
             | himself that he found a way to sell the toxic waste left
             | over from rare earth processing to new age hippies.
        
         | mseepgood wrote:
         | Or the 2006 London incident, where a Putin critic was
         | irradiated by a radioactive source in his stomach.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Who would be crazy enough to go into soviet tunnels full of
       | questionable radioactive stuff? I'm sure there is fun glowy stuff
       | down there but surely that is a rough risk ratio for even
       | desperate people
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident . It's
         | not implausible.
        
           | oersted wrote:
           | Weird how we ended up making real-life objects that "curse"
           | everything and everyone they touch with "invisible evil death
           | magic". It's right out of a fairy tale.
        
             | HPsquared wrote:
             | Germs are already a bit like that. A lot of these
             | superstitions were not bad for infection control, even if
             | the underlying mechanism was not understood (much like the
             | Standard Model, incidentally).
        
             | pyrale wrote:
             | Lead and abestos have been in use since antiquity.
        
               | wildzzz wrote:
               | Unless you work with lead or eat off of leads plates all
               | day, the risk of exposure is low. Even lead pipes are not
               | as scary once they have been mineralized. Same with
               | asbestos, it's the workers that handle it that are at the
               | most risk. An asbestos tile or insulation just sitting
               | there is not a huge risk.
        
             | BoxOfRain wrote:
             | I think as well as the obvious connection to nuclear
             | warfare, part of the public fear of nuclear technology
             | comes directly from how highly radioactive objects mimic
             | the idea of a "curse".
             | 
             | In reality there's many forms of industrial pollution that
             | are arguably scarier than nuclear waste, but none are quite
             | so eerie in how their harm is caused. Even though it
             | represented the very worst practices for these materials,
             | the idea of a place like Lake Karachay where even half an
             | hour on its shore would have killed you without you even
             | knowing you were doomed is really unsettling. I don't think
             | nuclear technology should be avoided, but there's
             | definitely a formidable image problem here I think.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | Chemical pollution is a lot scarier in a way, since it's
               | much harder to detect. Even absolutely tiny amounts of
               | radioactive contamination its existence to cheap widely
               | available detectors. But I think chemical pollution is
               | easier to ignore since it's harder to detect.
        
               | wat10000 wrote:
               | A lot of chemical pollution lasts literally forever, too.
               | It's kind of funny the way the mind works. "This will
               | remain dangerous for ten thousand years" somehow sounds
               | scarier than "this is always dangerous."
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | > Lake Karachay
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Karachay
        
         | voidUpdate wrote:
         | Because it almost certainly isn't actually glowy, they just
         | look like tunnels, maybe with some scrap inside that can be
         | sold off, and not everyone knows that it has radioactive waste
         | inside or what it can actually do to you. The average person
         | knows a lot less about radiation than you do
         | 
         | https://xkcd.com/2501/
        
         | 542354234235 wrote:
         | >In the post-Soviet vacuum of the early 1990s, the conditions
         | at Semipalatinsk-21 resembled the apocalypse that nuclear
         | weapons have long portended. A city of 40,000 that was once
         | serviced by two daily direct flights from Moscow had been
         | transformed into a dystopia of a few thousand stragglers and
         | feral dogs whose main challenge was finding food and
         | warmth...In the winter of 1995, Kairat Kadyrzhanov, a
         | metallurgist living in Semipalatinsk-21, confronted the
         | scavengers at Degelen to alert them that radiation might be
         | present in the tunnels. "My wife and children are starving,"
         | one of the scavengers told Kadyrzhanov, as he recalled it.
         | "What am I supposed to do?"
        
         | ivl wrote:
         | There are many people who die every year going into tunnels
         | without knowing if the air is safe to breathe where they're
         | exploring.
         | 
         | Do you think they'd be worried about radiation?
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | People looking for bomb grade plutonium, of course. But also
         | scavengers who have no idea, there's been plenty of incidents
         | with abandoned nuclear material.
        
         | rdtsc wrote:
         | Anyone desperate to make a buck on scrap with no other jobs
         | around. Especially in 90s things were pretty bleak in post
         | Soviet states.
         | 
         | Now imagine the appeal of selling any of this radioactive stuff
         | to a shady buyer. Now it's even more appealing.
        
       | HelloUsername wrote:
       | (2013)
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6257899
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20130822102920/http://thebulleti...
        
       | r721 wrote:
       | Related story: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41617207
        
       | acc_297 wrote:
       | Funny anecdote from the full article
       | 
       | "Equipment provided by Raytheon as part of a multi-million dollar
       | contract broke the winter after it was installed. One U.S.
       | official said most of the detectors had been designed by Raytheon
       | for the desert environment of the U.S.-Mexican border. The
       | Kazakhs, on their own initiative, sourced equipment designed to
       | withstand Siberian winters from a Russian military supplier; it
       | cost half the amount of the U.S. contract, and easily survived
       | the winter."
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | We overpaid for equipment not fit for purpose... Not sure I'd
         | call that "funny". Depressing or maddening, maybe.
        
           | soneil wrote:
           | Possibly. We'd need to know whether the Siberian equipment
           | could survive Nevada to make that call.
        
       | nancyminusone wrote:
       | I'm kind of surprised that if there was enough plutonium left
       | they were worried about someone taking it, they never recovered
       | it themselves. In the Manhattan project, plutonium was so
       | valuable it made the value of gold look like a doorstop. I guess
       | by the 50s, plutonium would have been available at every corner
       | drugstore then?
        
         | rdtsc wrote:
         | Once they had a process to make it and enough to fire off
         | hundreds of tests it probably wasn't worth to waste time to dig
         | through the rubble and then separate it all out again.
        
       | epistasis wrote:
       | This reminds me of the massive risks that Chernobyl presents to
       | this day, as Russia has attempted to destroy the newly installed
       | $2B protective sarcophagus, on Feb 14 with a drone:
       | 
       | https://world-nuclear-news.org/articles/chernobyl-protective...
       | 
       | The highly engineered protective cover was designed to carefully
       | maintain air pressure to confine the site. The hole caused by
       | Russia threatens all of that, as the Russia's drone lit a fire in
       | the waterproof insulation. The destruction of this basic
       | weatherproofing threatens the entire structure, which was meant
       | to last for 100 years without anybody being required to get close
       | to it. Repairs are, well, difficult. A more detailed examination
       | of the structure and its risks is here in a 12:39 video:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW4BEqDS_wM
        
         | jxjnskkzxxhx wrote:
         | Classic russian. Target something for no reason other than
         | psychological impact. Same reason why they bomb civilians etc.
         | The Ukrainians meanwhile bomb Russian bombers.
        
       | johnshades wrote:
       | Also see: https://www.vice.com/en/article/plutonium-in-the-hills-
       | how-d...
        
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       (page generated 2025-06-03 23:00 UTC)