[HN Gopher] Oxfordshire clock still keeping village on time afte...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Oxfordshire clock still keeping village on time after 500 years
        
       Author : 1659447091
       Score  : 95 points
       Date   : 2025-05-29 03:32 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bbc.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bbc.com)
        
       | smitty1e wrote:
       | "You really need to take the upgrade. Enough centuries have
       | passed."
       | 
       | "Oh, all right."
       | 
       | > A modification also saw the installation of a mechanised
       | winding system, ending the requirement for somebody to climb the
       | narrow, winding staircase each day to the clock room to do the
       | job by hand.
        
         | 867-5309 wrote:
         | sounds like a wind-up
        
           | 867-5309 wrote:
           | the clock or the staircase?
        
       | pm215 wrote:
       | I couldn't find anything with better image quality, but youtube
       | seems to have some 2014 footage of the clock in action (so pre
       | restoration work): https://youtu.be/ix0IxTqgavE
        
         | Oarch wrote:
         | This has an almost hallucinatory quality
        
       | madaxe_again wrote:
       | Prepare your ship of Theseus arguments now, gentlefolk, for that
       | mechanism does not look like a 16th century one to me.
       | 
       | The frame, _perhaps_ , but the rest of it looks Victorian at the
       | very oldest, more likely from the 1960s restoration, when people
       | were not so much into conservation as they were into
       | modernisation.
       | 
       | I don't think this detracts from the picture of it as a very old
       | clock, as it has almost continuously functioned as a clock since
       | its inception - if anything, it makes for a nice palimpsest of
       | horological technology, and speaks of a continuity of care that
       | is markedly rare.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | "I remembered once, in Japan, having been to see the Gold
         | Pavilion Temple in Kyoto and being mildly surprised at quite
         | how well it had weathered the passage of time since it was
         | first built in the fourteenth century. I was told it hadn't
         | weathered well at all, and had in fact been burnt to the ground
         | twice in this century. "So it isn't the original building?" I
         | had asked my Japanese guide.
         | 
         | "But yes, of course it is," he insisted, rather surprised at my
         | question.
         | 
         | "But it's burnt down?"
         | 
         | "Yes."
         | 
         | "Twice."
         | 
         | "Many times."
         | 
         | "And rebuilt."
         | 
         | "Of course. It is an important and historic building."
         | 
         | "With completely new materials."
         | 
         | "But of course. It was burnt down."
         | 
         | "So how can it be the same building?"
         | 
         | "It is always the same building."
         | 
         | I had to admit to myself that this was in fact a perfectly
         | rational point of view, it merely started from an unexpected
         | premise. The idea of the building, the intention of it, its
         | design, are all immutable and are the essence of the building.
         | The intention of the original builders is what survives. The
         | wood of which the design is constructed decays and is replaced
         | when necessary. To be overly concerned with the original
         | materials, which are merely sentimental souvenirs of the past,
         | is to fail to see the living building itself."
         | 
         | -- Douglas Adams, Last Chance to See
        
           | _joel wrote:
           | Reminds me of Trigger's broom.
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56yN2zHtofM
        
           | Epa095 wrote:
           | What a beautiful quote!
        
             | madaxe_again wrote:
             | It's a great listen - the original broadcast is available
             | on the BBC and elsewhere.
             | 
             | https://www.bbc.co.uk/lastchancetosee/sites/radio/aye_aye.s
             | h...
        
             | LeoPanthera wrote:
             | The "multimedia" project accompanying it on CD-ROM is
             | delightful, but it requires either Windows 3 or Classic
             | MacOS, so it's difficult to run today:
             | 
             | https://archive.org/details/Last_Chance_To_See_CDs
             | 
             | (Edit: This version seems to be the Windows 3 version
             | only.)
        
           | jjmarr wrote:
           | This is the whole point of the "banana taped to wall" art
           | that everyone mocks.
           | 
           | Part of the work is a certificate of authenticity and a
           | detailed guide for taping a fresh banana to a wall (it must
           | be exactly 1.6 meters above the ground). Because the banana
           | rots, this gives you permission to recreate the banana taped
           | to a wall as needed for display.
           | 
           | It's brilliant because it makes you question what the
           | "essence" of a work of art is. Literally anyone can tape a
           | banana to a wall. But you don't have the artist's intent
           | allowing you to do so.
        
             | spacedcowboy wrote:
             | I thought that was just for scale ?
        
               | jjmarr wrote:
               | Forgot to link the Wikipedia article:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedian_(artwork)
        
             | detaro wrote:
             | But it's also like much other installation art for decades.
             | Art piece as instructions and a "license" is nothing new.
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | It's not the atoms, it's the pattern of the atoms.
        
           | gostsamo wrote:
           | Very nice novel about one of the fires as well by Yukio
           | Mishima.
        
         | AStonesThrow wrote:
         | Forsooth! "Palimpsest of Horological Technology" shall
         | heretofore be the moniker by which I dub a rag-tag band of
         | madrigal performers, and/or the Macguffin from _Indiana Jones
         | and the Dial of Destiny_!
         | 
         | Growing up in San Diego, we often visited Presidio Park, site
         | of the San Diego Mission, or was it?
         | 
         | It was only 17 years ago when I managed to untangle the
         | relationship between the Mission de Alcala in the valley and
         | the Presidio on the hill.
         | 
         | I told my friend from Spain that we could go visit, and she
         | exclaimed "a prison? why visit a prison?"
         | 
         | And one or more buildings of the Presidio has been completely
         | rebuilt, as replicas, as a museum and tourist attraction. And
         | everyone told me the grass mounds outside were burial sites or
         | something.
         | 
         | But as a child I didn't get it; the building just looked like
         | an old mission from the photographs and they had nice exhibits
         | about what life was like tending crops and winepresses. Also,
         | there is an observation point on the third floor, where you can
         | see the Pacific Ocean and all of Mission Valley.
        
           | 1659447091 wrote:
           | > Mission de Alcala in the valley
           | 
           | A long time ago, and for a couple years, I lived next to the
           | stadium there and regularly bought meat from the Iowa meat
           | farms butcher -- I did not even know Mission de Alcala
           | existed or the areas history until today! (thanks for the
           | post) And I drove past it all the time. These days thats the
           | kind of historical site I travel around to visit; some
           | variation of the phrase youth is wasted on the young comes to
           | mind.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Prepare your ship of Theseus arguments now_
         | 
         | As soon as I saw the headline, I knew this HN cliche would be
         | one of the first comments.
         | 
         | Your body has replaced all of its cells several times already
         | in your lifetime. Are you not the same person?
        
           | madaxe_again wrote:
           | Living beings are patterns of energy and information that
           | operate continuously - the matter is not the stuff - hence
           | when you die, you die.
           | 
           | With a clock - the matter arguably is the stuff, as you can
           | stop and start it at will.
        
             | lazide wrote:
             | If you lose consciousness (sleep, or trauma) and then awake
             | - are you the same person before and after? How can you
             | know?
        
           | praptak wrote:
           | > Are you not the same person?
           | 
           | If you want to prevent a philosophical debate, that's a very
           | risky question to ask :)
        
             | nosianu wrote:
             | There is not much to discuss. It's not like the universe
             | forces you to use one particular definition for some word.
             | You can decide to use whichever you want for "same person",
             | and somebody else may use another one. There is no higher
             | power to make one of you more right. Human power helps (if
             | you control the books and the lesson plans and the grading
             | of tests, you kind of win).
        
           | krisoft wrote:
           | > Your body has replaced all of its cells several times
           | already in your lifetime. Are you not the same person?
           | 
           | That is the Ship of Theseus argument using other words.
        
           | dekhn wrote:
           | Not all the cells in the body are replaced in your lifespan.
           | But yes, identity is not specific to the constituents of the
           | original object if there is a continuum of changes.
        
           | nosianu wrote:
           | Okay... so I'm going to do some nitpicking on the non-
           | essential fringes of the argument if that's okay?
           | 
           | > _Your body has replaced all of its cells several times
           | already in your lifetime_
           | 
           | Not true. Cells like neurons, heart cells, skeletal muscle
           | cells are permanent (with minor caveats).
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_cell
        
             | lukan wrote:
             | Thank you! I always doubted that claim, but never looked
             | into it.
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | >> for that mechanism does not look like a 16th century one to
         | me.
         | 
         | What parts dont look 16th century?
         | 
         | Many aspects look identical to this, albeit smaller, clock from
         | the 16th century. Note the pin holding the frame together, an
         | exact miniature of the town clock.
         | 
         | https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co531/1...
         | 
         | It certainly does not look like the mechanisms seen on the
         | streets of a 16th century farming village, but even today the
         | most high tech devices are generally out of public view.
        
         | jaccola wrote:
         | What is the Ship of Theseus?!
         | 
         | Your argument on parts being replaced is interesting though...
         | Reminds me of Triggers broom.
        
           | qw wrote:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
           | 
           | > The Ship of Theseus, also known as Theseus's Paradox, is a
           | paradox and a common thought experiment about whether an
           | object is the same object after having all of its original
           | components replaced over time, typically one after the other.
        
       | rvz wrote:
       | Maintained systems built to last as long as 500 years is what
       | engineers should be aiming to build, especially striving for both
       | quality and to be highly battle tested in hardware.
       | 
       | This one didn't break 25 years ago with the Y2K bug and it won't
       | break in 2038 either.
       | 
       | A vibe-designed version of this however could not even last 4
       | years (AI introduces leap year bug) or even 6 months (clock will
       | break going back and forth adjusted for DST)
        
         | pqtyw wrote:
         | > This one didn't break 25 years ago with the Y2K bug and it
         | won't break in 2038 either.
         | 
         | Well yes but it had to be manually wound and adjusted by
         | someone on a very regular basis to continue functioning.
         | 
         | It's much more efficient than a human having to look at a
         | sundial every 15 minutes and ring the bells manually but
         | effectively the same thing, not an automated system.
         | 
         | > clock will break going back and forth adjusted for DST)
         | 
         | So you just fix it manually twice a year? Seems like a
         | significant improvement : D
        
           | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
           | >Well yes but it had to be manually wound and adjusted by
           | someone on a very regular basis to continue functioning.
           | 
           | So does most software.
        
             | pqtyw wrote:
             | Yes, that was kind of my point.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | I like the scale of that machinery. Very manageable.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Yeah, it's interesting to think of a clock with no precision
         | gears, but since there's no hands it opens up methods with less
         | complications /s
        
       | julian55 wrote:
       | We have a similar faceless clock in our village although perhaps
       | not as old.
       | 
       | https://leigh-on-mendip.org.uk/church-clock
        
       | alfanick wrote:
       | I live in a small Swiss village. We have two churches, they ring
       | their bells every hour (number of dong-sounds is equal to the
       | hour). But, they're slightly out of phase, so you can hear two
       | separate churches' bells.
       | 
       | And one of the churches also rings their bells every 15 minutes
       | (1-ring for each quarter). On top of this at 6:00am it rings a
       | whole rhapsody of sounds for whole 5 minutes - "wake up people,
       | time to go to work on a field!".
       | 
       | Initially it may be annoying, eventually you just get used to it,
       | in the end you actually learn to figure out the time from the
       | bell sound and make use of it.
        
         | cogogo wrote:
         | I live in a neighborhood in Boston with a couple of big
         | churches. The hourly bells are useful to teach the kids how to
         | tell time. Especially when out and about. Thankfully none of
         | the bells wake us up but I do appreciate them.
        
       | mistrial9 wrote:
       | pre-Renaissance the mechanical clock was a show of power for
       | Christian civilization.. one of the many benefits, along with
       | literacy and the written word in all its uses, of the Christian
       | society versus others.. and versus others it was.. on the edges
       | of the Christian world were raiding tribes, marching armies and
       | slaving of all kinds, from the great Central Asia all the way
       | into modern France, from the East, Vikings from the North and
       | African continental peoples from the South. The Christian world
       | sometimes came by the peace of the Savior, and also by the Sword,
       | chain and taxes.
       | 
       | Clocks are very impressive.. useful.. and now there is almost no
       | escape from them? What was lost?
       | 
       | This is a particularly impressive and useful clock. The benefits
       | to the town are manifold. In these times, it might be worth
       | examining their shadows, as well.
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | > Clocks are very impressive.
         | 
         | I mean, once you have a clock, anyone can tell time. I'm more
         | impressed by those that can tell time by time of year and
         | position of celestial objects. It's December and Orion is 20deg
         | above horizon so it must be close to...
        
           | Gibbon1 wrote:
           | A secret is to use the great costco shopping cart relative to
           | the north star.
        
         | verisimi wrote:
         | > Clocks are very impressive.. useful.. and now there is almost
         | no escape from them? What was lost?
         | 
         | What was lost is control of time for the individual. Time is
         | such an externalised concept now, we can barely conceive of an
         | internal, natural sense of time.
        
       | Archelaos wrote:
       | Somewhat related: I was impressed when I once visited Salisbury
       | Cathedral, where there is a restored clock vom 1386 on display.
       | See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury_Cathedral_clock
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | "In terms of accuracy, it's pretty accurate."
       | 
       | What more could you want?
        
       | mike-the-mikado wrote:
       | It may be in Oxfordshire now, but only since 1974. For most of
       | its life it was in Berkshire (until they decided to that the
       | county should follow the M4 motorway, rather than the river
       | Thames).
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-05-31 23:00 UTC)