[HN Gopher] The Surveilled Student (2021)
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       The Surveilled Student (2021)
        
       Author : smlacy
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2025-05-30 15:29 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.chronicle.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.chronicle.com)
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | https://archive.is/PKmcO
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | > _College officials stress that a machine, not a person, is
       | listening in,_
       | 
       | "Okay, but that's worse."
       | 
       | <https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/okay-but-thats-worse>
        
         | pixl97 wrote:
         | >that a machine
         | 
         | Yea, I don't know where that idea came from. Maybe the Boomer
         | generation when machines didn't have practically unlimited
         | storage and internet access where that data then can be crawled
         | over by countless algorithms to judge your life and how you'll
         | live from now on.
        
           | aspenmayer wrote:
           | I think this kind of thinking must be the same kind that
           | believes that _bulk data collection_ isn 't a _" search"_
           | until the data is accessed by a _human_.
        
           | reginald78 wrote:
           | The worst part is the algorithms don't even have to be
           | correct. A ton of algorithms, designed to find
           | transgressions, likely judged by purchasers by _how many_
           | they find. Eventually they are relied upon and are standard
           | for ass covering. But people don 't understand how they work
           | so give them a level of trust you wouldn't extend to a person
           | doing the same task.
        
         | cgriswald wrote:
         | Not only is it worse, but I doubt it is even true in any
         | meaningful sense. Even if the humans aren't 'listening in' and
         | only the student gets the feedback directly, surely there are
         | logs that contain at the very least metadata which a human can
         | very much 'listen in' on and absent regulation with heavy
         | penalties, _will_ listen in on either individually or in
         | aggregate and which could be hacked and sold.
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | (2021) btw
        
         | Der_Einzige wrote:
         | You mean yesterday?
         | 
         | What actually changed from 2021 to now besides GenAI?
        
           | hatthew wrote:
           | public perception of covid changed from The Apocalypse to The
           | Flu 2
        
       | qoez wrote:
       | The Surveilled Child, The Surveilled Citizen, ...
        
         | rapnie wrote:
         | Living in a Smart City.
        
           | m463 wrote:
           | There's an app for you.
        
         | bigyabai wrote:
         | What's so "smart" about these phones, anyways?
        
           | tanseydavid wrote:
           | "I've got one that can see" -"They Live" John Carpenter
        
       | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
       | Does privacy even exist anywhere? I assume that my work computer
       | has a key logger to track if I ever type something nasty.
       | Potentially records me to see if I am using an above average
       | amount of profanity while coding.
        
         | 0xWTF wrote:
         | I'll just leave this here
         | 
         | https://www.wired.com/1999/01/sun-on-privacy-get-over-it/
        
       | nis0s wrote:
       | This article...the kind of technology described herein, and other
       | places which gets cast in a suspicious light, is actually quite
       | useful.
       | 
       | The problem with the information such technology affords,
       | however, is that any primitive-minded human may misuse or abuse
       | what they get out of it.
       | 
       | The human mind has not wholly updated beyond family or tribe
       | level self-preservation, but I guess some results have yielded
       | from prior waves of cultural evolution. The only practical advice
       | is that one should try to build in safeguards against abuse and
       | misuse.
        
       | 1shooner wrote:
       | Society generally puts maximal responsibility on school
       | administrators for the well-being of students, so it should not
       | be surprising that they will take maximal measures in response to
       | that expectation. They are ultimately risk mitigators, not
       | privacy ethicists, what would you expect them to do?
        
         | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
         | Not be authoritarian weirdos.
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | They're expected to have complete control of the students and
           | are held responsible like they have complete control.
           | 
           | How the hell else are they supposed to act? I genuinely don't
           | blame the schools here. I blame every single person who
           | expects the schools to hold all encompassing control over a
           | group of kids.
        
             | ninalanyon wrote:
             | > They're expected to have complete control of the students
             | 
             | Since when?
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | Since about 1999 or 2000. Columbine really shifted
               | people's attitudes.
        
         | ty6853 wrote:
         | The administrators could educate and urge the parents and
         | school board to vote against this faux risk mitigation.
        
           | Onawa wrote:
           | School boards have increasingly been taken over by people
           | actively looking to dismantle our education systems. This is
           | a battle that has to be won on multiple fronts to make an
           | impact.
           | 
           | https://www.huffpost.com/entry/right-wing-extremists-
           | schools...
        
             | DontchaKnowit wrote:
             | Right wingers have been saying the same thing about left
             | leaning school boards for the last decade.
        
               | cosmicgadget wrote:
               | Seems like they are saying the left is trying to change
               | the curriculum, not dismantle the education system. The
               | push toward privitization and homeschooling is pretty
               | lopsided.
        
         | fn-mote wrote:
         | To be clear, this is an article about COLLEGE students, the
         | vast majority of whom are legal adults.
         | 
         | It's not the same as first grade students being monitored by
         | their teachers, regardless of what sibling commentors have to
         | say.
        
       | ty6853 wrote:
       | Also see the installation of "HALO" type detectors in schools.
       | 
       | They use zero-party audio recording to detect 'gunshots' (why the
       | fuck does a school need this to detect gunshots which will be
       | heard throughout the whole school? Are they expecting the world's
       | quietest silencer?) And I put in quotes, because gunshots here
       | seems like a thinly veiled way to try and finagle around
       | illegally recording people.
       | 
       | They also invade the bathrooms with 'vape' detectors that smell
       | the children at all times to make sure they are in compliance.
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | I could see sound being drowned out from all the bending
         | hallways/closed doors, I remember being in pretty big schools
         | 
         | Interesting though I've seen these spiral dots before but
         | didn't know what it was
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | Fun fact, vape detectors are bypassed by blowing through a
         | sweatshirt or hoody, or by running hot water in the sink.
        
         | danesparza wrote:
         | "why the fuck does a school need this to detect gunshots which
         | will be heard throughout the whole school?"
         | 
         | To establish a timeline (and a sense of 'due diligence') for
         | the inevitable deposition.
        
           | bell-cot wrote:
           | It's more about addressing management/stakeholder anxiety,
           | and helping with blame/liability issues.
        
       | nofinator wrote:
       | Previous discussion (4 years ago):
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27453800
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | Well, we do have to stay safe out there. We're in a pandemic.
       | 
       | It amuses me that my rave groups already did contact tracing for
       | respiratory illnesses before the pandemic and perhaps because of
       | the large Asian friend group I'm part of we wore masks in more
       | normal contexts when we had a cold.
       | 
       | To be honest, most of the people designing the interventions are
       | just generally short of mental horsepower and strong in self-
       | belief. So they come up with novel approaches that aren't really
       | required. The fact that there are students who aren't pro-social
       | on campus complicated things but that's a self-imposed problem.
       | 
       | It can't be helped: this is what happens with The Sort. If they
       | were smarter they wouldn't be college admins.
        
       | constantcrying wrote:
       | This of course is about Covid, but the rise of LLMs is another
       | point where students are supposed to become less private, opening
       | up their devices to monitoring software.
       | 
       | I think that there is exactly one correct direction to take here,
       | which is that direct human interaction is the most valuable
       | thing, both in learning and in keeping students mentally and
       | physically healthy. Every single surrogate for that inevitably
       | will make all of these aspects worse.
        
       | IshKebab wrote:
       | > won't just disappear when the pandemic subsided.
       | 
       | Yeah I'm pretty sure they don't have to wear heart monitors now.
        
         | krapp wrote:
         | I wonder how far the overlap is in the Venn diagram of people
         | who thought the pandemic would lead to an "Orwellian nightmare"
         | and the people who voted for Trump and support DOGE, ICE and
         | the administration's oppression of political wrongthink in
         | universities. I'd bet it's an almost perfect circle.
        
       | ninalanyon wrote:
       | The _US_ Surveilled Student
       | 
       | I can't imagine such ideas being floated elsewhere. Certainly not
       | without significant protest.
       | 
       | So much for the land of the free.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | Working in a German university. I had students in my courses
         | where we noticed after two semesters that they aren't even
         | studying here (not as if that was a problem, tuition is free
         | and they were adding good spirits to the courses).
         | 
         | And with "noticed" I mean they told us.
        
       | otherayden wrote:
       | https://unbloq.us/https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-surv...
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-30 23:01 UTC)