[HN Gopher] Walkers' Sensations Poppadoms vs. HMRC: The Chip of ...
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Walkers' Sensations Poppadoms vs. HMRC: The Chip of Theseus
Author : robinhouston
Score : 31 points
Date : 2025-05-26 17:33 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
| pcrh wrote:
| https://archive.ph/8pSEx
| dp-hackernews wrote:
| Quite an amusing account.
| laidoffamazon wrote:
| > I care not when you call me big poppadom
|
| Huge credit to whoever came up with this subtitle
| normie3000 wrote:
| This article implies that Discos are not crisps. Surely this is
| madness?
| sph wrote:
| Reminds me of McVitie's challenge to get the Jaffa Cake on the
| zero VAT tariff for cakes, even if technically it's a biscuit
| (that carries a higher VAT rate).
|
| McVitie's won with the astute argument that, unlike other
| biscuits, when a Jaffa Cake goes stale it becomes hard like a
| cake, not soft.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes#Legal_status
| comrade1234 wrote:
| I always thought poppadoms were made from fermented lentil dough,
| so I looked it up and they're made with basically anything - even
| potato!
| arprocter wrote:
| My assumption was chickpeas, but evidently anything starchy
| works
| kjellsbells wrote:
| A papad-like thing can be made from potato flour, but I
| struggle to equate it to a poppadom since potatoes are not
| native to the subcontinent. The classic papad is made from
| urad lentil flour. They are infamously tricky to make from
| scratch. Anecdotally, all the Indians whose houses I've been
| to use the brand that has the little boy photo on the sleeve
| and Lijjat papad brand in Hindi script in big letters across
| the front.
| fredoralive wrote:
| I suspect the potato choice from Walkers is just because
| they're a crisp / snack company so it keeps their
| ingredient pipeline simple.
|
| I probably wouldn't really count these are "real"
| poppadoms, they're poppadom inspired mostly potato based
| snacks[1], sold in the crisps isle.
|
| [1] https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-
| GB/products/264339339 for an example of the product at a
| shop.
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| By the same token, Pringles are potato-chip inspired
| mostly potato-based snacks:
|
| https://www.pringles.com/en-us/products/pringles-the-
| origina...
|
| Whilst "dried potatoes" are the top ingredient, they also
| contain plenty of corn, rice, and wheat products.
|
| Surprisingly, I have found that in the States, the
| "purest" seeming snack food is Fritos Original Corn
| Chips:
|
| https://www.pepsicoproductfacts.com/Home/product?formula=
| LBS...
|
| "Ingredients: Corn, vegetable oil (corn and/or canola
| oil), and salt."
|
| Some of you may have read my story of the Olive Section
| at Carrefour in Catalonia. The same thing had happened
| with the same friend when she visited me in Phoenix. She
| had heard tell of a vast selection of crisp flavours. So
| we went to the convenience store/Subway/gas station on
| the corner, where half of the store shelves are chips,
| dip, and salty snacks. She was impressed and chose two
| bags, including a chili lime flavour.
|
| And here I sit with the Kalamata olives and the Manchego
| cheese. Jamon Serrano is not easy to come by; sometimes I
| settle for Prosciutto.
| TheOtherHobbes wrote:
| I have no comment on the legalities, but I have to insist that
| the lime and coriander variety are _amazing._
| petesergeant wrote:
| > I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of
| material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand
| description ["potato crisps"], and perhaps I could never succeed
| in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the
| [delicious snack] involved in this case is [quite definitely]
| that
| comrade1234 wrote:
| I wonder why the UK has a 20% tariff on potato chips, er I mean
| crisps. Is it to stop from being overrun by clearly superior
| Irish crisps (O'Donnells Ballymaloe Relish and Cheddar in
| particular)?
| petesergeant wrote:
| > by clearly superior Irish crisps
|
| Here is a map of where they're available in the UK[0]. I think
| you under-estimate the cut-throat nature and absolute consumer
| abundance of good crisps in the wider British Isles...
|
| 0: https://stores-ballymaloefoods.ie/tesco
| varispeed wrote:
| Map seems to be showing distribution centres, not actual
| stores - at least for Tesco.
| StevenWaterman wrote:
| Are you getting confused between tariffs and VAT? VAT is the
| equivalent of sales tax.
|
| From what I can tell, the tariff on "Potatoes, Thin slices,
| fried or baked, whether or not salted or flavoured, in airtight
| packings, suitable for immediate consumption" from Ireland is
| 14%, reduced to 0% if they originate in Ireland
| https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/20052020...
| fredoralive wrote:
| It's Value Added Tax, which is basically a sales tax[1], not a
| tariff (unless you're a certain president who thinks it is?).
|
| The idea is that VAT was supposed to apply to everything
| equally (AFAIK in most EU countries it does?), but applying it
| to some things like food, children's clothes or books was seen
| as kinda a bad idea when they brought it in for the UK in the
| 1970s, so they don't have it (technically the do, but at a 0%
| rate which is a technicality only accountants care about). But
| with food they didn't want to apply to frivolous luxuries.
| Which in some cases is fairly obvious (alcohol has VAT), and
| snacks like crisps are also bourgeois luxuries, so get the full
| 20% (oh, for the days of 17.5%...). This split does lead to
| some interesting tax tribunal decisions, so a chocolate covered
| biscuit does have VAT, but a cake with a chocolate topping
| doesn't, leading to the famous Jaffa Cake case, or this case
| about rather crisp like Poppadoms made by a crisp company.
|
| [1] Except a lot more confusing.
| cjs_ac wrote:
| > The Upper Tribunal -- having already determined potato granules
| to be part of the extended potato universe -- didn't like this
| line of argument, judging that the potato starch and granules
| must be combined to judge overall potatitude.
|
| Okay, I'm sold. When I have the money, I'll get a subscription to
| the _FT_.
|
| On a less jocular note, this article is a good reminder that,
| contrary to most discussion here on HN, laws aren't algorithms
| that the powers that be execute against the world, but are rather
| heuristics that courts have to interpret in the context of
| specific cases.
| varispeed wrote:
| FT occasionally publishes entertaining pieces, but make no
| mistake - their editorial line inherently favours the ultra
| wealthy and government perspectives. A classic example is their
| coverage of IR35, crafted to shield big consultancies from
| competition, not the taxpayer. They parrot government
| propaganda, as if their critical thinking faculties
| mysteriously switch off whenever they touch the topic. They
| favour policies and narratives that sustain the power of large
| players, often at the expense of small businesses, freelancers,
| or challengers. Don't feed the beast.
| cjs_ac wrote:
| As much as I agree with many of the biases of the _Grauniad_
| , I feel increasingly irritated by the blatant pandering to
| my sensibilities. The 'what happened' part of the article is
| so short on details it's barely there and the 'analysis' part
| is almost always just telling me who are the goodies and who
| are the baddies. If they quote experts, it's always an
| explanation of the most basic shit, because that's all the
| journalist understood. All of the non-elite media is like
| this: the analytics seem to have told them that ragebait is
| the only thing that gets ad revenue.
|
| I just want to know what's going on in the world, and
| interesting analysis. I don't want analysis that tells me
| that I'm a good person, I want analysis that tells me
| something interesting about the world, even if I don't agree
| with it. If I have to pay a Bond villain to get that, so be
| it.
| varispeed wrote:
| I get it - FT feels like the antidote to shallow ragebait
| because it's polished, detailed, and authoritative. But in
| my opinion, papers like the FT, exist less to inform you
| fully and more to shape your perception - a polished form
| of narrative management for the benefit of the said elites,
| not you. The elites themselves, though, aren't relying on
| newspaper analysis. They have access to internal briefings,
| specialised research, paid private reports, strategic
| intelligence, and direct advisor networks - insights and
| data that never make it into public media channels.
| jarym wrote:
| So, so, true. Even more irksome when the country is faced
| with massive economic challenges and the politicians make
| choices that they seek to avoid justifying and do not appear
| to be in the national interest.
| erikerikson wrote:
| Do you have a recommendation of where one should read?
| twic wrote:
| > IR35, crafted to shield big consultancies from competition,
| not the taxpayer
|
| I think this is a crank belief, and my guess is that you are
| an aggrieved ex-contractor. But i would definitely be
| interested to hear more about this theory.
| varispeed wrote:
| IR35 only applies if the worker owns the business
| delivering the work. Big consultancies are completely
| exempt -- even when their staff do the same job, in the
| same client seat, for years. The legislation funnels work
| away from independents toward large firms - it's a
| structural outcome of how the rules are written, all under
| the false banner of tax fairness. At its core, IR35 was
| about consolidating control over skilled labour, locking
| clients into corporate pipelines, and eliminating
| independent operators who could undercut on price and offer
| better quality.
| argsnd wrote:
| They cater to their readers
|
| https://commercial.ft.com/audience/
| intuitionist wrote:
| The FT is well worth reading (regardless of anyone's personal
| beliefs, it's useful to get a sense of how the wealthy and
| powerful think by reading their papers) but note that the FT
| Alphaville blog, which published this piece, is free to read if
| you create an account (you don't need to pay).
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| TIL that Walkers in England is different than Walker's
| Shortbread, the latter being the makers of really tasty goods in
| attractive keepsake tins. I was going to pick one up as a
| commemoration of King Charles III.
|
| Also, papadums are spelled differently by Indian restaurants
| around here, because it is, after all, in transliteration.
|
| This was inevitable as mass-produced snack food is influenced and
| derived from foreign cuisine. Papadums served in a restaurant are
| about 6" diameter, puffy, thin and delicate. Caraway seeds and
| other bumps are often noticeable. Always need a good chutney to
| dip into.
|
| The Indian groceries also sell shelves full of savory crispy
| snacks that run the gamut. I hope that Walkers can hold their
| niche amongst cricket fans.
| fakedang wrote:
| There's a lotta different varieties... There are the poppadoms,
| the small bites which are the subject of the article.
|
| Then there are paapads, which are basically the thin, less
| bubbly, often nearly plate-sized North Indian variety, often
| dosed with a smattering of spice. These are fire toasted and
| are the ones you commonly get at your local Indian for
| appetizer.
|
| Then there's the South Indian appalam/pappadam which is
| smaller, made of rice, and often bubbly. Those usually are not
| spiced and are fried, often to eat with rice meals and not
| alone.
|
| In some parts of South India like Bengaluru and Calicut, you
| can even get pappadams made out of jackfruit. These are usually
| made into conical shapes and are eaten as snacks.
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| Again, in transliteration, those names are all different ways
| of spelling the same word, borrowed even from Sri Lankan
| Tamil, even. It is unclear whether they are descriptive of a
| variety, or they are just varying because a different chef in
| a different region wrote in Latin characters in a different
| way.
|
| pppttm - paapdd'
|
| The English Wikipedia covers the name's variants. And the
| jackfruit variety.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papadam#Etymology
|
| It is not my favorite appetizer, but the restaurants all seem
| to prepare them about the same. This is in the American
| Southwest with restaurants advertising cuisine of North India
| (vegetarian), Punjab, New Delhi, Pakistan, etc.
|
| They are probably the most delicate crisp I've ever eaten.
| They crumble when I breathe on them or if they touch a drop
| of chutney. I wouldn't purchase them in a grocery store, for
| fear they would already be in crumbly pieces.
| masfuerte wrote:
| In the first tribunal Walkers argued that Sensations are not
| crisps because:
|
| > They are not ready for human consumption
|
| I understand why they made the argument but I couldn't understand
| how. I tracked down the judgement from last year:
|
| > Walkers initially argued that the products were designed to be
| used with dips, chutneys and pickles, and as a side with a meal.
| On this basis, they contended that the products required further
| preparation before consumption and so did not fall within Note 5.
|
| > In the hearing, Walkers accepted that there was nothing on the
| consumer packaging that stated that any preparation was required.
| It was agreed that the packaging would be required to state any
| such necessary preparation. We also noted that Walkers' own
| promotional material showed people eating the product directly
| from the package, without any dips etc, and without a meal. On
| that basis, and in the light of case law on 'preparation' in this
| context, Walkers agreed that they were no longer relying on this
| argument.
| fanf2 wrote:
| There's a similar thing with chocolate: cooking chocolate is
| zero-rated, but VAT is due on eating chocolate. They are
| basically the same products: the main differences are the
| packaging (presence or absence of cooking instructions) and
| where they are shelved (with the cake ingredients or with the
| sweets).
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| How can they talk about Walker's Poppadom Chips, without
| mentioning Poppadom Elvis[0]?
|
| Once you've seen it, it's hard to get out of your head.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QduTLFILORY
| AndrewStephens wrote:
| Damn you, that's going be stuck in my head all day.
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