[HN Gopher] Japan Post launches 'digital address' system
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Japan Post launches 'digital address' system
Author : jmsflknr
Score : 114 points
Date : 2025-05-28 16:33 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.japantimes.co.jp)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.japantimes.co.jp)
| halpow wrote:
| Japan is the perfect place for this because their house numbering
| system already _requires_ you to look at a map to find it.
|
| For those unfamiliar with it, numbers are incremented
| progressively around a block as doors are added to it. So the
| door "Block SanChome 4" could be on the opposite side of the
| building from "Block SanChome 6"
| sabellito wrote:
| This won't change. The article starts:
|
| > Japan Post said Monday that it has launched a "digital
| address" system that links seven-digit combinations of numbers
| and letters to physical addresses.
|
| Their proposal is useful when one wants to move addresses.
| elif wrote:
| Also useful for anyone who wants their personal residence
| recorded in less databases
| Freak_NL wrote:
| Doesn't it just give the shop a way to fetch the full
| address from some public API? I don't think you can just
| jot down that number on a box and have it delivered.
|
| > Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes
| on online shopping websites, and their addresses will
| automatically appear on the sites.
| montroser wrote:
| Yeah but now it's a personal identifier that actually moves
| with you when you move to a different physical address. In
| terms of privacy, that might just be worse.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| I don't think they're saying that the system is intended to
| replace old addressing but that the new proposed system is
| fine because the old addressing system, like this new one, is
| not very good at providing intuitive physical wayfinding
| anyways.
| nan60 wrote:
| This is really cool. Japanese addresses are longer and more
| complex than most North American/European ones, so this
| especially makes sense there.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| Even in the USA, the full 9-digit "Zip + 4" code will often
| identify a specific building. And some really big customers
| (e.g. the IRS) will have their own 5-digit zip code.
| reaperducer wrote:
| _Even in the USA, the full 9-digit "Zip + 4" code will often
| identify a specific building._
|
| It can be even more granular than that. ZIP+4+2 is a thing.
| donnachangstein wrote:
| This being Japan, you still have to sign for your digital
| delivery with a rubber ink stamp.
| nickpeterson wrote:
| Probably print a receipt using a fax machine hooked to a pc-
| engine.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| I wish we had those _hanko_. Signing off on any parcel is
| complete bullshit at the moment. Most delivery drivers neglect
| to ask for one (or that code you are supposed to give them for
| some delivery services), and when they do, you just make some
| arbitrary squiggle on their handheld device -- it 's not like
| you can actually do a faithful reproduction of your signature
| on those, even in 2025, and I certainly can't using my finger
| instead of a pencil or pen.
|
| Yesterday a courier brought a pallet with my new drill press
| costing over EUR500. Signature required, but when I asked he
| told me not to worry, there was no need...
| donnachangstein wrote:
| UPS driver left a $3500 MacBook Pro on my front steps, didn't
| even ring the bell... signature required my ass.
| ghaff wrote:
| Don't know the last time I've been required to sign for
| something. That said, I live in a semi-rural location very
| well off the road.
| ortusdux wrote:
| Most delivery companies enacted signature exemption rules
| for covid and are in no hurry to rescind them. Getting
| signatures takes time, which affects their bottom line.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Protip: Ask for hold at location. Downside, you must drive
| to the facility. Upside, less hassle than if package is
| pirated.
|
| https://www.ups.com/us/en/track/change-delivery
|
| https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/hold-at-location.html
| ghaff wrote:
| I suppose it depends on your assessment of the risk. For
| me, taking an extra 30-45 minutes to pick something up is
| a pretty high bar. I've had a couple mis-deliveries at
| home but it's rare and think I eventually got the items.
| That's versus hundreds of other deliveries.
| ortusdux wrote:
| UPS closed my local facility to the public last month.
| Now I can only drop packages off at third parties for a
| fee, and the nearest hold location is over an hour away.
| ghaff wrote:
| UPS was very unfriendly for consumer dropoffs for ages.
| That changed a bit. But seems to be headed back and I
| _rarely_ get deliveries of Amazon stuff via UPS any
| longer.
| oniony wrote:
| Ass print?
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| Signature required shifts the burden of proof.
|
| If your drill press had been delivered to the wrong person,
| and the sender had chosen insured delivery (which
| automatically requires a signature), it would be easy to
| prove that the signature on file with the transporter did not
| match the actual signature of the recipient (i.e. you)
| (unless a fraudster forged your signature, that is).
|
| Mind you, from what I understand, the seller is legally
| responsible up to the point of delivery in the Netherlands*.
| Therefore, even if your drill press hadn't been sent with
| required signature, the shop would still be responsible in
| case it had been lost (but then the loss would come out of
| their own pocket, rather than that of the transporter).
|
| Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
|
| * Assuming you're from the Netherlands due to your user name.
| Freak_NL wrote:
| All that means is that as the receiving party there is
| absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use
| my actual signature.
|
| Indeed, if the pallet was delivered to the wrong address
| and someone just took it, the burden of proof would lie
| with the selling party. Of course, a reputable transporter
| will make sure the address is right (plus, people generally
| don't act as if they were indeed expecting a pallet
| delivered by lorry).
| Tijdreiziger wrote:
| > All that means is that as the receiving party there is
| absolutely no reason for me to sign anything, or even use
| my actual signature.
|
| Yes, but this actually doesn't matter.
|
| The only time when the signature on file is actually
| relevant is when the sender lodges a claim for non-
| delivery. In that case, it could be compared to your
| actual signature.
|
| Conversely, if no claim is lodged, the package must have
| been successfully delivered.
|
| Disclaimer: not a lawyer.
| tokioyoyo wrote:
| Things have changed in the recent past, and you very rarely
| need your hanko. Maybe for marriage? Nowadays you cab
| register your signature at a bank and use it for any activity
| as well.
| GloriousKoji wrote:
| If it was modernized a little, I think I would enjoy needing to
| tap a RFID hanko to my phone to sign for digital delivery.
| donnachangstein wrote:
| > tap a RFID hanko
|
| we call those contactless smart cards
| kazinator wrote:
| RFID isn't smart; it's just a little chip that harvests
| energy from being illuminated by a radio wave signal from
| the terminal, and reflects back a code. (Well, that's a
| passive tag; there are self-powered ones also.)
|
| Smart cards contain a considerable embedded system for
| transactional processing; it's quite different from just
| transmitting an ID.
| donnachangstein wrote:
| > RFID isn't smart
|
| Makes it utterly useless as a digital signature then.
| kazinator wrote:
| Correct; an RFID tag cannot hold a cryptographic secret
| and perform a calculation with it to prove that it knows
| the secret, without revealing the secret. It has no
| compute capability. It's just a kind of reflective
| beacon.
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| False: RFID is a communications technology that doesn't
| restrict the use of a "smart" processor.
|
| EMV, NFC, and RFID are all related technologies which may
| underlie "tap to pay / sign" features.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contactless_payment
| abdullahkhalids wrote:
| Correct. These IC cards [1] do some cryptography, right?
|
| [1] https://aruarian.dance/blog/japan-ic-cards/
| xdfgh1112 wrote:
| I've never had to do that. Hand signature or nothing at all.
| perihelions wrote:
| _" We can solve any problem by introducing an extra level of
| indirection"_
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_theorem_of_softwar...
| isk517 wrote:
| When I read 7-digit my first thought was this seems a bit short
| sighted. Then I saw the the address was going to be a combination
| of letters and numbers. Since this is the English page for The
| Japan Times I'll give them a pass on using the wrong word.
| elif wrote:
| Letters are digits. Just not base 10.
|
| Alphanumeric codes are mathematically speaking a completely
| identical set to base 36 numerics
| frzen wrote:
| This sounds like the Irish Eircode system
|
| 7 characters made up of letters and numbers let you find a
| specific building.
| ProblemFactory wrote:
| This seems more interesting, as it's not a code for a physical
| address but a lookup key for one.
|
| You can update your code to point to a new address when you
| move:
|
| > Their digital addresses will not change even if their
| physical addresses change. Their new addresses will be linked
| to the codes if they submit notices of address changes.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| By letters do they mean Latin/English alphabet, or
| hiragana/katakana characters?
| perihelions wrote:
| Apparently it's Latin,
|
| https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp/svg/digitaladdress_img_01_pc.s...
|
| https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp/
| card_zero wrote:
| Ooh, the logo is an @ that's also a roadmap.
| WillAdams wrote:
| Roadmap or house?
| card_zero wrote:
| Triple metaphors? I don't like it now, they went too far.
| ahmedfromtunis wrote:
| Isn't it a house (with a roof and a chimney)?
| 762236 wrote:
| Everyone's got an address in the world-wide plus-code system, and
| they're used for deliveries in many countries:
| maps.google.com/pluscodes/
| xbryanx wrote:
| How do plus codes handle elevations(floors) or rooms within a
| building? It seems that the Japan Post system allows for this.
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| > Everyone's got an address in the world-wide plus-code system
|
| Debatable considering it's based on lat/lon only.
|
| > used for deliveries in many countries
|
| Source? Their own website only lists 3 use cases, and only one
| is used for mail delivery, and even that is in Kolkata only.
| constantcrying wrote:
| A location based system can not possibly work on its own. Mail
| is not send to one physical address, it is delivered to a
| specific person.
| ericdiao wrote:
| The ZIP code system in the US CAN somewhat work the same way.
|
| The usual 5 digit ZIP code routes to your Post Office. The longer
| ZIP+4 code routes more detailed locations: a city block, an
| apartment building. The even longer ZIP+6 code goes to something
| called delivery point, which to my understanding is basically a
| single mailbox. The ZIP+6 code is in fact embedded in the bar
| code sprayed onto the mail piece.
| smw wrote:
| Though you might have missed the concept that it follows you if
| you move, I think?
| d-us-vb wrote:
| he said " _somewhat_ work the same way ". For a person who
| doesn't care about whether they have to get a new code when
| they move, the systems are equivalent in their value
| proposition. Thus is the case for most things that "
| _somewhat_ work the same way ".
| politelemon wrote:
| > Their digital addresses will not change even if their physical
| addresses change.
|
| This doesn't sound good for privacy or security, though it's a
| nice convenience function.
| Marsymars wrote:
| This idea is _so close_ to being great though. It just needs a
| couple changes:
|
| > Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on
| online shopping websites, and their addresses will
| automatically appear on the sites.
|
| 1. The site shouldn't get your address at all. They print the
| code on the package, mail it to Japan Post, and Japan Post
| takes care of delivering it to you.
|
| 2. You should be able to generate new codes arbitrarily.
|
| i.e. A service like Apple's Hide My Email, but for physical
| mail.
| BurningFrog wrote:
| It would be pretty trivial to mark some addresses as private.
| So only the delivery service can resolve it.
|
| My guess is that's already planned, but they don't put all
| details in the first press release.
| bluehex wrote:
| The "important notes" section on the Japanese page[1] says that
| you can disable / delete an address at any time and create a
| new one. If I used this I would rotate every so often and at a
| minimum for each move. I'm a bit concerned for people that
| don't understand the risks of updating these. Anyone that's
| ever seen this code being able to lookup the person's address
| across moves is scary. I don't feel like this convenience
| warrants the risk of having this feature, personally. It's
| already convenient enough to just limit the input required for
| updating third parties to an alphanumeric code without allowing
| updating the addresses.
|
| [1]: https://lp.da.pf.japanpost.jp/#importantnotes
| brynet wrote:
| > Their [virtual] addresses will not change even if their
| physical addresses change.
|
| So they've added an MMU (Mail Management Unit).
| salynchnew wrote:
| An address addressing system.
| comrade1234 wrote:
| I thought this was something else... my cousin has been living in
| Japan 10+ years in a small town for on the other side of Mt Fuji
| from Tokyo and I went and stayed with him for a couple of weeks.
| Every day (maybe twice? I can't remember) loudspeakers on poles
| around the neighborhood would start playing amateurish
| announcements - some very old man half-asleep reading a list of
| events, news, etc. I was hoping they turned it digital and just
| sent it to your phone. For how peaceful things normally were in
| this town it was disruptive.
| xdfgh1112 wrote:
| In Okinawa I get music in the morning when kids need to go to
| school as well as random announcements.
|
| Japan has always been weird like that - people are generally
| quiet and respectful of others, but when it comes to trucks
| driving around blaring out political speeches, or a "pay to
| take your large trash" van playing music while driving around
| to advertise its presence, all bets are off.
| Gothmog69 wrote:
| I've always wanted this
| constantcrying wrote:
| Very cool.
|
| The German Post already has "digital stamps", you buy them online
| and then you just have to write a couple of symbols on the
| envelope.
|
| If you combined these together you would get a letter which can
| be fully paid for and addressed by writing a couple of symbols on
| it, only meaningful to the computer system. In a way this is
| making the physical world quite digital.
| nivertech wrote:
| Reminded me of a dot-com era colleague who left to start a
| startup that would notify your friends when your email address
| changed ;)
|
| But this thing sounds like a Rube Goldberg machine. A much
| simpler solution is to have the subscriber log into their account
| and change their address
| OJFord wrote:
| I wonder how it works if you have two addresses. (I suppose one
| possible answer could be that it just doesn't, you register your
| main one, if you want the other you have to enter it in full.)
| kazinator wrote:
| It seems obvious to me that you would just register a digital
| address for each of those two addresses.
| kazinator wrote:
| This is a nice solution for a good chunk snail mail spam.
|
| The next step would be to refuse to route mail other than to a
| digital address.
|
| Next step, allow users to have short-lived, throwaway digital
| addresses which are nest to worthless to harvesters, who have
| mere weeks to act on them.
|
| The post office should conceal the real addresses, not allowing
| outsiders access to the database. You shouldn't have to tell
| someone where you live in order to receive something by mail from
| them.
| tantalor wrote:
| Nice idea but (according to the article) that's not how it
| works:
|
| > Under the system, users can input these seven-digit codes on
| online shopping websites, and their addresses will
| automatically appear on the sites.
|
| So the sites still use the physical address. In fact, the
| postal service itself doesn't even use the code.
|
| The purpose is to simplify form input on websites, which was
| already solved by browser autocomplete.
| xenadu02 wrote:
| Well Japan's physical address system everywhere except Kyoto is
| complete insanity. Every level get assigned numbers based on
| build order so block 6 can be across town from block 7 for no
| apparent reason.
|
| Feel free to have any addressing system you like; it need not
| be number, street, city, state/province like many western
| countries. But it should at least make some logical sense.
| rtpg wrote:
| there's already an address alias system that things like
| Mercari (think Japanese eBay) has.
|
| You buy something from somebody, they get a QR code and use
| that to get a delivery label. Delivery label doesn't have your
| address on it, only the delivery company knows where it's
| going.
|
| Obviously it doesn't prevent something like "there's an airtag
| in the box" but it does prevent you having to tell the person
| selling you a used copy of Resident Evil 5 where you live.
| KoolKat23 wrote:
| https://www.eircode.ie/
|
| This is Ireland's postal code system. There's a small level of
| privacy built in, specific to an address (many taxi drivers ask
| for this) and 7 digits long. Web forms use it too, so quite
| common in normal life.
|
| Surprisingly the postal service, An Post, don't use the postal
| code as their primary way to direct mail (as far as I understand)
| .
| thephyber wrote:
| When you say "web forms use it", is it built into browsers
| natively, or Irish-based websites add those fields?
|
| Addresses are one of those things that "what programmers
| frequently get wrong about X".
| KoolKat23 wrote:
| Irish-based websites add those fields.
|
| https://www.eircode.ie/business/business-overview
| Arnavion wrote:
| See also this CGP Grey video where he talks about post codes /
| zip codes in general and mentions Ireland's system.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K5oDtVAYzk
| arp242 wrote:
| > An Post, don't use the postal code as their primary way to
| direct mail (as far as I understand) .
|
| I'm not sure how the delivery system works exactly, but I think
| they use the eircode? Especially in the countryside there often
| isn't much more than that. At my previous address the street
| doesn't even have a name; but post addressed to "my name, town,
| eircode" got delivered.
|
| Also when the eircode was first introduced it really messed up
| the delivery, which seems to indicate they're using it?
| KoolKat23 wrote:
| They do use it.
|
| Sorry I have it the wrong way round, there was earlier
| confusion which led to the below article and my incorrect
| understanding.
|
| The system uses the eircode and the postman uses the address.
| (It makes sense a person would use the street address.)
|
| https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/an-
| post-c...
| PerilousD wrote:
| So I HOPE you cant mis-type an email address and get it sent to
| someone else. I get so many bank account statements, library book
| and device rental notices, car is ready for pickup, or from
| repair etc notices. ALL APPARENTLY from Bozos who dont know their
| OWN email addresses. On the other hand on the 2nd notice *I
| usually do not get a third) when I tell garages/ car impounds /
| parking spaces to sell the damn thing as Im done with it.
| richardw wrote:
| Almost perfect. Along with mail that follows you, I've always
| wanted a system that lets you grant the right to send you mail,
| that you can hard revoke. Physical and digital. We could call it
| "slightly more complex mail protocol". No more layers of filters,
| just grant and revoke.
| soorya3 wrote:
| If we could use use gps co-ordinate then it would make all the
| life simpler. Imagine how many time you type those address info
| on the forms and not to forget typing mistakes.
| xxpor wrote:
| How do you account for apartment buildings? Include your
| elevation? :)
| crubier wrote:
| I don't know, I feel like "38.57266, -9.19670" is harder to
| remember than "55 bridge street, foobar city, mexico". Maybe
| What3Words would be better: "///obscure.loftily.tasting", but
| it does not give any idea on locality.
| eightys3v3n wrote:
| We could use Google Plus codes instead. They look like
| 3W4J+622 Calgary, Alberta. The digits after the + can be
| added or removed to increase of decrease accuracy. They can
| but need not be also be replaced partially with a locality
| like Calgary, Alberta.
| 9dev wrote:
| Why not an email address that you can add a physical address to
| on the platform of your national postal service? Have parcels
| be sent to the email address, and the postal service resolves
| that at dispatch time to your current address. No hassle when
| moving, no spreading your address everywhere, easy to remember.
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| The USPS is currently delivering some mailpieces
| electronically.
|
| When I sign in to Informed Delivery, every month or so the
| USPS sends a postcard advertising their podcast ("Mailin'
| It!")
|
| https://usps-mailin-it.simplecast.com/
|
| This is a virtual postcard, so while I can read it in my
| email or on usps.com, I won't necessarily find a paper copy
| delivered.
|
| It is my understanding that commercial mailings can also use
| this mechanism. I receive some marketing as original JPEG
| quality, rather than being scanned in grayscale.
| numpad0 wrote:
| It's more of a URL shortener. Users are assigned 7-digit
| alphanumeric code that macroexpands into full address on
| participating websites as well as on some paper application
| processes. There are few safety checks to prevent abuses, and
| linked address can be changed later when you move.
|
| Many online address forms in Japan uses equivalent of ZIP code to
| do similar already, but the expanded address are as granular as
| ZIP codes - I always fill in the rest of the address, but if I
| think about it, the fractions of users who do religiously verify
| and clarify the addresses must be less than 100%. I suppose this
| code will initially solve that problem with minimal infra changes
| for both users and the PO.
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