[HN Gopher] The UI future is colourful and dimensional
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The UI future is colourful and dimensional
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 180 points
       Date   : 2025-05-27 01:23 UTC (21 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.flarup.email)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.flarup.email)
        
       | bitpush wrote:
       | What's old is now new again. The fashion industry has known this
       | for decades, and the tech industry is catching up to that.
       | 
       | You know what comes after "dimensional" design? Radicial
       | minimalism.
       | 
       | "Once you strip away everything extra, everything ornamental,
       | what remains is the truth, and nothing more" There, I wrote a
       | tagline for design trend of 2030.
        
         | 1shooner wrote:
         | But my calendar app would be so much easier to use if only the
         | UI included stitched leather.
        
         | aleksiy123 wrote:
         | What else is there?
        
         | Avicebron wrote:
         | "What was once considered truth in the design sense has been
         | replaced with complacency and a stifling regression towards the
         | mean. What we offer is an alternative; boldly intricate
         | designs, showcasing skill, attention to detail, and a human-
         | first detail orientation unmatched by the AI systems flooding
         | our daily lives" There's 2035's
        
           | GenshoTikamura wrote:
           | A future like this would definitely be worth living through
           | the current bullshit
        
         | BobbyTables2 wrote:
         | Fluxbox will make a comeback?
        
           | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
           | It never left my heart
        
         | terribleperson wrote:
         | Hasn't minimalism been the dominant trend for well over a
         | decade now? Surely it'll need more than five years to cool off
         | before it makes a return, assuming it even leaves.
        
         | hliyan wrote:
         | Just a minute ago, I clicked a "Transfer" button on my online
         | banking UI. It's a beautiful button with an appealing font and
         | a subtle, pleasing background gradient. But when clicked, it
         | shows no indication that it was depressed, and I have to rely
         | on the appearance of a modal spinner to know that I have
         | actually pressed it. For me, peak UI was Windows 89/2000 --
         | largely uniform and monochrome, but just enough detail in the
         | third dimension to know where to click, and what to expect when
         | clicked. Also: keyboard shortcuts.
        
           | Kwpolska wrote:
           | In a desktop application, if a button stays in the pressed
           | state when you let go of the mouse button, it means that the
           | developer was lazy and is doing work on the UI thread. In a
           | classic Windows UI, the transfer dialog would be closed, or
           | it would disable all controls until the operation completes
           | and then show a confirmation message.
        
             | thyristan wrote:
             | Well, kind of.
             | 
             | Actually, the developer should really do some work in the
             | UI thread beyond just sending out a "button pressed"
             | message: When I press the button, I need immediate feedback
             | that it was pressed and that pressing it had an effect,
             | that things are now happening. Too many UIs, especially in
             | the web where round-trip-times can be long, rely on just
             | firing of a message or a network request. The response to
             | the user, by displaying a spinner, progress bar, modal or
             | new page only happens asynchronously and after a
             | comparatively long delay. This means that users will
             | sometimes repeatedly click because "nothing happens",
             | leading to multiple messages, leading to multiple actions,
             | leading to a big mess.
             | 
             | So the UI thread should synchronously trigger user
             | feedback, take a lock or other measures to prevent
             | unintended repeated actions and start a timeout callback in
             | case the triggered action doesn't happen in a sensible
             | timeframe.
        
           | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
           | This is what actual UI design is supposed to encompass.
           | Making sure the software behaves in the way the user expects,
           | effectively communicates state, etc. Not just fussing over
           | icons and colours.
        
             | ahartmetz wrote:
             | It is perhaps a problem that there are a lot of visual
             | designers around, because that is something for which a
             | classical education exists and which has a certain
             | prestige, and very few UX designers, for which no classical
             | education exists and which seems to have little prestige.
             | Good UX design is usually _not_ fancy, form follows
             | functions isn 't flashy, and the whole thing seems kinda
             | nerdy (not cool).
             | 
             | About the return of skeuomorphism, I do believe it's
             | happening because people are fed up with flat everything in
             | two colors, but I wish there was less oscillation around
             | the center. As many have mentioned, Win2k was very good,
             | and it _was_ a middle ground between the extremes we 're
             | seeing today. Actually, it was extreme in one way: you
             | could tell what a UI element was going to do without trying
             | to click every pixel and seeing what happens.
        
             | kccqzy wrote:
             | Users' expectation changes. You ask someone who grew up
             | with Windows 98 and they will tell you that d'oh of course
             | onscreen buttons should have a depressed state to indicate
             | they are pressed. You ask someone who grew up with Snapchat
             | and the entire idea of having buttons is optional: tap on
             | this area of the screen for this functionality, tap on that
             | area for a different functionality, and swipe left for this
             | swipe right for that with no indication that the UI is even
             | swipeable.
        
           | surgical_fire wrote:
           | > For me, peak UI was Windows 89/2000 -- largely uniform
           | 
           | The UI back then was sometimes janky, but it was so much more
           | useful. Icons were meaningful and easy to recognize despite
           | the low resolution. Quite often interfaces were customizable,
           | they were not afraid of users becoming power users. Peak UI
           | for me was probably Winamp 2.
           | 
           | Nowadays it is just a bunch of flat glyphs, things hidden in
           | hamburger menus, arcane submenus, etc. Probably done to
           | increase "engagement" or whatever bullshit metric they want
           | to minmax for.
        
         | SebastianKra wrote:
         | It's not a loop, it's a spiral. Each idea brings a (partial
         | over-)reaction to the last one.
         | 
         | For example, flat monochrome icons emerged, because previously
         | the UI was massively overshadowing the main content [^1]. So we
         | traded the recognizability of icons for a better overall
         | hierarchy in the UI.
         | 
         | Now that this problem is solved, designers are looking to
         | reintroduce recognizable icons without sacrificing the previous
         | goals. In the AirBnB app, you'll find that the busy icons are
         | only used when they're the main focus. Auxiliary icons remain
         | flat.
         | 
         | [^1]: https://www.geeky-gadgets.com/wp-
         | content/uploads/2011/09/fac...
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | Flat, monochrome icons emerged due to the hardware
           | requirements of mobile devices with wildly differing DPI.
        
             | SebastianKra wrote:
             | There can be multiple reasons. But iOS went 6 years with
             | skeumorphic icons (post-iPad, post-Retina) so mixed-dpi
             | screens probably weren't the only factor.
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | At that time iOS had the luxury that its higher-DPI
               | variant was exactly twice the original resolution, so up-
               | or downscaling of non-vector graphics worked well.
               | (Similar for macOS.) Moreover, the original iPhone
               | resolution was already relatively hi-DPI, meaning that
               | accuracy on the individual pixel level wasn't as
               | important as on the typical 96-DPI desktop screen.
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | It's so weird to realize that the 2000s that I considered
         | advanced were in fact just another segment in the timeless
         | cycles of fads
        
       | raincole wrote:
       | a.k.a. People are using whatever Dall-E 3 give them without
       | curation and believing they're designers.
        
         | kaibee wrote:
         | Yeah, but isn't text to image kinda the perfect tool for
         | creating certain UI? The point of an icon is to
         | compress/transform some idea/action/whatever into an image that
         | communicates exactly what it does/what it represents. And often
         | the thing you want an icon for isn't some concrete concept you
         | can represent with 5 lines, but a label that language has
         | converged on to describe a broad but fuzzy category of stuff.
         | 
         | Like, if you have an eCommerce store and you want an icon for
         | mops, doesn't it kinda make sense to take your top 100 selling
         | mops and blend them together into an icon?
        
           | skydhash wrote:
           | Not really, because in this case, it's better to just use the
           | word "mops" and be done with it. You use icons when people
           | are familiar with them. You do not invent them on a whim.
        
       | 1over137 wrote:
       | Stop letting graphics people decide these things by aesthetics.
       | There is hard data from people that actually work in usability on
       | how UIs ought to be built.
        
         | gjsman-1000 wrote:
         | Yes, but those usability people have a tendency to design
         | interfaces for the lowest common denominator. This often ends
         | in disaster as the lowest common denominator often cannot even
         | navigate a "usable" interface. Meanwhile, those who aren't in
         | that group feel almost infantilized.
         | 
         | I will take my extremely dense UI over an accessible interface
         | that shows only 10 rows on a spreadsheet in 24 point font.
         | Think of those with low vision!
        
           | Avicebron wrote:
           | > Yes, but those usability people have a tendency to design
           | interfaces for the lowest common denominator. This often ends
           | in disaster as the lowest common denominator often cannot
           | even navigate a "usable" interface. Meanwhile, those who
           | aren't in that group feel almost infantilized.
           | 
           | I fully agree with you. But ...
           | 
           | > I will take my extremely dense UI over an accessible
           | interface that shows only 10 rows on a spreadsheet in 24
           | point font. Think of those with low vision!
           | 
           | You will be Ctrl + FrontMouseScrollWheel to read your 3rd
           | monitor too eventually.. be nice on HN.
        
             | croemer wrote:
             | > You will be Ctrl + FrontMouseScrollWheel to read your 3rd
             | monitor too eventually..
             | 
             | I'm failing to parse this
        
               | nick__m wrote:
               | I parsed that as: one day, you will have to use the zoom
               | too.
        
               | dotancohen wrote:
               | Ctrl-+
        
               | dkdbejwi383 wrote:
               | Just because one doesn't need accessibility features now,
               | doesn't mean you won't ever. A little bit of empathy
               | would not be a waste.
        
           | rambambram wrote:
           | > Meanwhile, those who aren't in that group feel almost
           | infantilized.
           | 
           | For me, the perfect examples of feeling infantilized (I like
           | that word) are the following: I feel infantilized by
           | government or hospital illustrations that are meant to convey
           | a simple message to the lowest common denominator. I feel
           | infantilized by Youtube videos and TV ads that use these
           | happy but annoying 'toddler' sounds in the background.
        
         | grimpy wrote:
         | I think it's inevitable (and fine) that aesthetic trends
         | influence UIs, however, what is terrible (and already
         | happening... again) is that people will create all kinds of
         | faulty reasoning and justification as to why the new trend is
         | empirically better UX when what likely is at play is a tiny bit
         | of innovation and a lot of novelty.
         | 
         | IME, there could be a lot more clarity in product and UX if
         | more people were honest with themselves and others about just
         | wanting "better" looking UI.
        
         | melagonster wrote:
         | Every day, there are so many comments complaining about the
         | open-source/free software they tried being too old and the UI
         | being stale. I never notice someone offering the example of
         | their modern UI. "But the UI is terrible!" maybe graphic
         | designers are needed.
        
           | 1970-01-01 wrote:
           | Windows 8, 10, and 11 are good examples of modern UI being
           | over-refreshed and receiving hash feedback by their users.
        
         | TheFragenTaken wrote:
         | There's also hard data suggesting the perceived usability is
         | higher when the user interface is aesthetic. So it goes both
         | ways.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | Graphics people have been deciding these things ever since
         | personal computers became mainstream. You are almost three
         | decades too late to preach this.
        
         | Tokkemon wrote:
         | Care to share said hard data?
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | flat, minimalist design has been a disaster for the human race
       | 
       | if designers need the AI hypetrain to bring back drop shadows and
       | the basic usability affordances we had for the 30 years before
       | they ruined things, so be it
        
         | abraxas wrote:
         | As much as they were a disaster for computing interfaces what
         | they did to architecture is so much worse and so expensive to
         | fix. So many cities are semi-permanently scarred by outrageous
         | creations of "starchitects".
        
           | recursivedoubts wrote:
           | i am in violent agreement with you
        
       | afavour wrote:
       | Not a new thought but it always surprises me how much groupthink
       | applies in these situations. Airbnb announced a new design and
       | we've all just collectively accepted that it's the future?
       | ...what?
       | 
       | I don't hate the trend but I am underwhelmed. Just loaded up the
       | Airbnb site and... it's new icons. The actual UI I'm interacting
       | with hasn't changed a jot, though. Google's Material UI stuff
       | from a few days ago felt much more interesting.
        
         | hoseyor wrote:
         | I also get this weird sense that besides seemingly just having
         | changed 4 icons, as far as I can tell, it really feels like
         | they're just dusting off three dimensional icons that existed
         | back in around about the early aughts ?
         | 
         | I'm not convinced either.
        
           | sixQuarks wrote:
           | It's so stupid. I get the emperor has no clothes vibe from
           | all of this
        
             | MichaelZuo wrote:
             | Your just noticing?
             | 
             | Most of the stuff on HN isn't exactly written by super
             | geniuses, especially for blog posts without some kind of
             | analysis.
        
               | valianteffort wrote:
               | This post was more about some midwit trying to coin a
               | phrase than a breakdown of future design patterns one
               | could entertain. Clout chasing nonsense.
        
             | boxed wrote:
             | Which emperor though? Flat design or 3d design?
             | 
             | I do agree with the article that before the iOS 7 flat
             | design rush the barrier to entry for indie app developers
             | was super high because it's damn hard to make the iOS <7
             | style look good. Flat is easy though. But with AI tools,
             | the old style is suddenly available to lots of people
             | again.
        
           | Tokkemon wrote:
           | Those 3D icons were always ugly, we just didn't have the
           | maturity to realize it at the time. :)
        
         | pglevy wrote:
         | Definitely slower loading and jankier scrolling on my phone.
        
         | tsunamifury wrote:
         | Because it's nonsense from a "performative" wannabe design
         | team.
        
         | vijayabaskar56 wrote:
         | yeah , I too like the new Material UI , the suttle physics
         | effors are awasome.
        
         | throw310822 wrote:
         | Aha, yes, it's a grand total of five icons (that I've managed
         | to see so far) mixed in with a lot of flat icons. And they look
         | ugly AF, it looks like a blast from the early 2000.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | It does look like Office 97 clipart, or something from those
           | 5000-piece icon CDs from the '90s.
        
         | wooque wrote:
         | Yeah new icons are ugly and looks like they are ripped from
         | Sims 1. It's just designers trying to justify their existence
         | in the company.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | > Airbnb announced a new design and we've all just collectively
         | accepted that it's the future?
         | 
         | Don't overindex on one guy with a newsletter. My read on this
         | article was this is someone trying to be the guy who called the
         | next trend. He cites no evidence supporting the claim that it's
         | the next trend, he's just trying to be the guy who puts a name
         | to it so that he's an influencer if it does.
         | 
         | He also mentions how he's been designing icons in this style
         | for decades, which should make a skeptical person wonder
         | whether there might be some wishful thinking going on here.
         | 
         | What I can tell you for sure is that, as a professional
         | designer, I have not received any memos mandating the use of
         | this style of icons. I'll let you know when I do.
        
         | Nullabillity wrote:
         | > Just loaded up the Airbnb site and... it's new icons. The
         | actual UI I'm interacting with hasn't changed a jot, though.
         | 
         | Don't undersell it. It also manages to run like ass on a
         | desktop with a modern gaming GPU, and takes 5 years to load on
         | a gigabit connection.
         | 
         |  _And_ got my location wrong. _And_ decided to machine-
         | translate everything _away_ from my native language.
        
       | taimurayaz wrote:
       | This is fueled more by nostalgia than usefulness. That game
       | example is horrible. It draws attention to icons more than the
       | content itself. Makes the whole experience fatiguing.
        
         | barrell wrote:
         | Surprised there aren't more comments about the game example. I
         | found it so bad - takes up so much space, provides no value,
         | color schemes all over the place, every "icon" had wildly
         | different rotations/perspectives.
         | 
         | Was it a little fun? Sure? Maybe? It was cute for a moment or
         | two. But "near production ready"?
        
           | forgotoldacc wrote:
           | As someone who grew up with Nesticle and ZSNES as a kid and
           | now uses OpenEMU, the icons and visual flare are big reasons
           | lots of people use specific emulators. ZSNES is still used by
           | a lot of people because it's "comfy" despite the accuracy
           | being poor.
           | 
           | Kids downloading emulators today and experiencing 40 year old
           | consoles like the NES and 50 year old consoles like the Atari
           | 2600 for the first time don't want an all text UI. They want
           | a picture of that ancient hardware. It makes their experience
           | feel more real. In contrast, Retroarch is that it's an
           | emulator frontend designed that has no frills in its UI, and
           | it's designed with a mindset that everything doesn't take up
           | much space, everything provides value, and color schemes
           | aren't all over the place, and there aren't really any icons.
           | And because it's the ideal HN emulator, it's difficult to use
           | and ugly.
        
             | barrell wrote:
             | Oh I'm not arguing for minimalism or all text uis - I agree
             | with the article in the sense that modern uis are boring
             | and we need something fresh. It just seems like a very
             | shoddy example to run a victory lap with. Design is
             | subjective, but I don't think many people would see that
             | and think "yes this looks finished / is the future". Which
             | seems to fly in the face of the article and the point of
             | including it
        
       | hoseyor wrote:
       | So diamorphine is an alt. for heroin. Just saying
        
       | ketzo wrote:
       | While this article is a little fluffy and overstated, I do share
       | the overarching sentiment -- UIs for the vast majority of
       | products should be _at least a little_ fun.
       | 
       | "Delightful" UI/UX has become a cliche at this point, but it
       | really does make me happy to see an element of craft and
       | intention in the software I use, and stuff like these detailed
       | little icons accomplishes that well!
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | The main point / takeaway I had wasn't whatever UI design is in
         | fashion right now, but rather the treatment of AI tools for
         | design:
         | 
         | > I treat AI as just that: a tool, not a shortcut to the final
         | result--then there's still a lot of room for craft, taste, and
         | care.
         | 
         | I wholeheartedly agree with the author here.
        
         | constantcrying wrote:
         | Aesthetics or fun _needs_ to be secondary to usability. If
         | making something  "fun" comes at the cost of making the design
         | less usable, it should be avoided.
         | 
         | Obviously companies need to define their own image in design,
         | but that is not an excuse for bad design.
        
           | ketzo wrote:
           | I agree, and one issue for developers and designers alike is
           | that often, it's more fun to make a UI fun than it is to make
           | it work really really well.
           | 
           | But that doesn't mean we should lose sight of fun completely,
           | which I think in many places we have!
        
       | nosefurhairdo wrote:
       | I'm unconvinced. The article cites Airbnb and "the internet" as
       | evidence:
       | 
       | > After Airbnb showed off their redesign, the internet exploded
       | with soft, dimensional, highly detailed icon sets prompted into
       | existence using generative AI tools.
       | 
       | One company's redesign + random proofs of concept does not
       | indicate a real trend, and the idea that LLMs make designing with
       | dimensionality in mind more accessible is dubious.
       | 
       | Good design requires consistency. High dimensionality makes
       | consistency harder to achieve. LLMs perform better when there are
       | fewer design nuances to consider. Additionally, we can expect
       | LLMs to reinforce existing trends, as they're all trained on what
       | exists today.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | Gee great, the designers got bored again
        
       | chank wrote:
       | How are we not full circle back to the early 00's with this
       | design? It didn't really catch on then. Maybe this time? Wasn't a
       | big fan of it then. Still not.
        
       | choxi wrote:
       | There are some other interesting dynamics in UX that aren't just
       | cyclical trends:
       | 
       | - Natural language interfaces. You can now communicate with your
       | computer with language, voice or text. There are some situations
       | where this is an improvement, but others where it's not. It'll be
       | interesting to see how interfaces are designed to combine the
       | best of both worlds.
       | 
       | - Adaptive interfaces. The UI/UX of the last period of computing
       | is largely a solved problem. There are standard UX solutions for
       | most types of problems. It's also become significantly easier to
       | build these interfaces, and LLMs are pretty good at writing basic
       | declarative UIs. I think the bar will be raised such that users
       | expect their interfaces to adapt to them, instead of a one-size-
       | fits-all solution.
       | 
       | - Immersive interfaces. This might be similar to "dimensional"
       | but more about the actual UX instead of just how 3D the buttons
       | and icons are. I think using 3 dimensions is a natural solution
       | for expressing higher information density. VR and AR will
       | eventually catch on in some form.
        
       | richardanaya wrote:
       | I can't be the only one who thinks these look ugly. Material
       | Design Expressive feels more future forward.
       | 
       | https://design.google/library/expressive-material-design-goo...
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | These modern designs feel so antiquated. Like being stuck to
         | musty magazine pages.
         | 
         | Bring me back to the era just after Geocities 1999. That pre-
         | web 2.0 world saw some real futurism, before all the flatness
         | took over.
         | 
         | Even Frutiger Aero was more forward thinking than Material.
        
           | terribleperson wrote:
           | I miss the gradiented/pseudoreflective UI elements. It made
           | it very easy to visually distinguish elements.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | I'm waiting for the LCARS UI to catch on.
        
         | barrell wrote:
         | I find it very interesting the praise Material Design
         | Expressive gets. Perhaps it's just because I've always been on
         | iOS, but every iteration of Material Design seems so much more
         | foreign to me. I'm not really criticizing it, but personally I
         | find it to be extremely confusing to visually process.
         | 
         | It feels a lot like language divergence. iOS and Android
         | started at the same place (same language), then became
         | different accents, different dialects, and (soon/now) different
         | languages.
        
         | int_19h wrote:
         | The overall feeling I get from this is "form over function" and
         | specifically "look! look! we can do fancy typography!".
        
       | notnullorvoid wrote:
       | AirBnB's redesign isn't a indicator of design trends changing.
       | Most of the app remains minimal and "flat", the dimensional
       | flares are mixed inconsistently throughout. The app could more
       | easily flop back to fully minimalist than it could into a fully
       | 3d design language.
       | 
       | Also dimensional icons have existed within flat UIs as app icons
       | for quite some time, though some platforms have had periods of
       | both flat icons and UI. In a sense they are adopting them in this
       | existing usage as sub-app icons.
       | 
       | The oddest thing is the glossy "new" tags, they are the only tags
       | within the UI which are glossy. Having them mixed with flat tags
       | and flat buttons is honestly confusing, they look more like
       | buttons than the actual buttons do.
       | 
       | > Back in the early 2000s, UI design like this had a high skill
       | ceiling. It took years to master lighting, materials, and depth.
       | Now? That level of craft is often just a prompt away.
       | 
       | Mastering any design style takes time, and the skill ceiling is
       | not meaningfully different if there even is one. I'm also highly
       | sceptical that AI would be able to be consistent enough whether
       | generating flat or 3d icons.
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | Yeah, the icon style is the part I care about the least when
         | taking about flat design. It is the fact that it removes all
         | visual affordances that something is interactive. Clickable
         | items that don't look like buttons or hypertext, they just look
         | like the rest of the page. Scrollable regions that don't have
         | scrollbars or any other visual clue that there is more content
         | below or to the right, unless some of that content happens to
         | be cut off by the invisible region boundary. Windows whose only
         | indication of which is selected is the title goes from dark
         | gray on light gray, to medium gray on light gray.
        
       | dataviz1000 wrote:
       | I don't think it is 2D vs 3D, but rather 2D and 3D vs 4D which
       | probably has these guys a little worried. The human interface is
       | still the same but now instead of something that responds
       | instantly or deterministically like the doorbell interface which
       | has tactile input and auditory output, the output is automated
       | actions in time. This is what the thinking output in LLM
       | interface is. I don't know if the language and semantics allow me
       | to say this but the LLM output is more than a 2D screen, it is
       | also in time. That is the fundamental change.
       | 
       | This might not be different from say ... clicking a button
       | causing a massive Rube Goldberg machine to take money out of my
       | bank account, send emails about my booking to all interested
       | parties with signals moving across continents before in some time
       | in the future sending me a confirmation message when everything
       | is finished. People are beginning to think in terms of the output
       | of the action of pressing a button to book as automation instead
       | of just output on a screen that says successful or failed attempt
       | to book.
       | 
       | (If anyone from the Airbnb design team reads this, please,
       | please, please, work on making sure that the absolute important
       | information about a booking in text messages are visible in the
       | text message. And that the page before booking does not hide
       | information about the booking on an iPhone 13. You do not have
       | control of the thousand different combinations of phones,
       | operating systems, ect so when the information has be presented
       | in only words it has to be done in a way that people understand
       | them.)
        
       | lxe wrote:
       | I do miss IconFactory, Everaldo's Crystal Clear Icons, Tango,
       | Longhorn, and other trends from the beginning of 21st century.
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Tango it's still my icon theme (Tango2). Clear outlines.
         | 
         | On the theme, Zukitre it's flat but it has contrast.
        
       | ookblah wrote:
       | nice. so basically we are so "back" to the icons i saw from my
       | packard bell desktop shitty navigator OS like 30 years ago lol.
       | everything is truly cyclical (also in fashion like what gen-z is
       | wearing) and i'm old enough now i guess so it a little jarring to
       | see these things playing out before my eyes.
        
       | paul7986 wrote:
       | The future is less UI and tons more interacting with AI right
       | from your personal AI mobile device's Lock Screen.
       | 
       | It will do everything for you that you do now using the web
       | ..we'll be opening less apps and web browsers in a few years or
       | less.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Even after all this time I don't like it. It looks like 90s
       | geocities icons on modern flat iOS design. Going by feel, it
       | looks dumb
        
       | fxd123 wrote:
       | ...except Airbnb's redesign is still extremely flat. Three icons
       | that have 3-D shadows is not groundbreaking
        
       | efortis wrote:
       | In 2009, I recorded a few Flash websites with 3D, videos, and
       | parallax motions.
       | 
       | Here's an inspiring one:
       | 
       | https://x.com/efortis/status/1879712687896289471
        
       | nssnsjsjsjs wrote:
       | That animation is cool but the end result is still as flat.
        
       | ddingus wrote:
       | About damn time!
        
       | WhereIsTheTruth wrote:
       | "I did a quick mockup"
       | 
       | Sure you did.. https://openemu.org/
        
       | diiiimaaaa wrote:
       | I think we're in a loop guys
        
         | District5524 wrote:
         | We ARE a loop ourselves:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_a_Strange_Loop
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | So we're going back to Aqua from 20 years ago?
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_(user_interface)
        
       | kmarc wrote:
       | While just because a company wants this, I doubt this is the
       | future, however...
       | 
       | Just a couple days ago I was thinking about this (and in fact,
       | started exploring icon packs for my desktop) that all the UIs I
       | use are reduced to "black and white" icons and widgets. Colors
       | are missing, sophisticated shapes too. Sometimes I am actually
       | wondering what an icon is meant to represent.
       | 
       | At my new gig I have to use web Outlook (not allowed to use my
       | finger-memorized mutt setup), and I must say it's a pleasure to
       | look at the UI. Still line drawing icons, but and elegant play
       | with colors at least. Similar to how some LibreOffice Icon packs
       | look like.
       | 
       | I rather hope this is the future. Use colors as accents, leverage
       | a "grouping" functionality with them.
        
         | vladvasiliu wrote:
         | > At my new gig I have to use web Outlook (not allowed to use
         | my finger-memorized mutt setup), and I must say it's a pleasure
         | to look at the UI. Still line drawing icons, but and elegant
         | play with colors at least.
         | 
         | What do you mean "colors"? I have been using Web Outlook for a
         | while, and everything is blue black and grey with a ton empty
         | space.
        
           | kmarc wrote:
           | Here is an example. The toolbar has subtly colored icons:
           | 
           | https://www.windowspro.de/sites/windowspro.de/files/imagepic.
           | ..
        
       | calmbonsai wrote:
       | I'm not convinced. Show me the results of A/B study along any set
       | of UX metrics you'd like to measure. The author uses the term
       | "performative" without any performance metrics.
       | 
       | Going all the way back to Parc, pre-OSX Mac OS, VRML, OpenStep,
       | and countless widget and windows managers for Linux (anyone
       | remember Enlightenment (https://www.enlightenment.org/about.md ?)
       | we've _had_ deep dimensional design, animations, and heavy-weight
       | skeuomorphics multiple times and have always returned to
       | _shallow_ static dimensional design for mass /generic
       | applications.
       | 
       | I suspect it amounts to less overall mental effort which improves
       | workflow speed and, thus, a greater perception of interactivity.
       | 
       | Maybe deep dimensional design will return when cheap and
       | ubiquitous AR (augmented reality) or VR becomes a...reality, but
       | I don't see it happening with 2D displays.
        
         | atoav wrote:
         | As someone who worked in IT support icons can be award winning
         | and you'd still find people who will have a hard time
         | understanding their meaning when there is a label written
         | underneath them. People are lazy and don't read text in
         | computer programs. Sit next to a user who clicked away a
         | warning and ask them what it said.
         | 
         | As a former freelance graphic/web designer I'd argue that the
         | style of icon is much less important than the organization of
         | those icons. E.g. some software will put 50 icons seemingly
         | randomly into a toolbar and let you play a game of "find the
         | right one". The quality of every single icon becomes utterly
         | meaningless then as the organizing principle is wrong.
         | 
         | That means first an icon bas to be the right choice and be used
         | in the right context, then we can talk about readability and
         | how well it clicks and stylistic questions come dead last. Some
         | people think graphic design is about coming up with cool
         | looking styles. That is literally the opposite of what good
         | graphic design is.
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | Between current flat turds and Keramik/e16 there are sensitive
         | settings:
         | 
         | -Motif UI
         | 
         | -Plastik
         | 
         | -Platinum
         | 
         | -GNUStep/NextStep
         | 
         | -BlueCurve
         | 
         | All of them have clear outlines and contrast.
         | 
         | On Icons, Tango and Tango2 from Gnome are unbeatable. Maybe
         | just Haiku/Be icons can truly be over Tango.
        
           | int_19h wrote:
           | Win7 was pretty decent, as well.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | Any A/B study would look at conversion metrics ("did people
         | spend more money?") rather than user enjoyment. People don't go
         | on Airbnb to browse or hang out, they book a room, pay and
         | that's it.
        
       | tsunamifury wrote:
       | You can't be serious that this guy is acting like he just
       | deactivated skuemorphism.
        
       | armchairhacker wrote:
       | I like skeuomorphism, I hope it comes back.
       | 
       | But the best UI is custom. It would be better if apps had
       | themable UIs so users could apply custom themes if they want to
       | make all their apps have a particular style (e.g. metal, sepia,
       | colorful, modern). Because then the UI can be skeuomorphic or
       | minimal or anything else.
       | 
       | Apple has recently been adding more UI customization. There were
       | custom lock screens in iOS 17, custom app icons in iOS 18, and
       | something's planned for iOS 19. It hasn't gotten much attention,
       | maybe in part because there's still a lot you can't customize
       | (especially in most non-Apple apps), more likely because Android
       | is still even more customizable (especially because it's not as
       | locked down). But Apple doing it is significant because they
       | could start a more widespread trend.
        
         | Kwpolska wrote:
         | Arbitrary system-wide themes are hard to code against. You
         | could make a dark theme for Windows 9x, but you might end up
         | with black/dark text on a black background, because the
         | developer changed the text colour, but left the background the
         | default colour.
        
       | johng wrote:
       | Those icons are great, that's the type of look that I love. I
       | still love the look of BeOS and it's icons..
        
       | cynicalsecurity wrote:
       | Finally. I'm so sick of the flat design.
        
       | jazzcomputer wrote:
       | Flat silhouetted icons have a more versatile set of contexts -
       | much like flat text does. Sure, you can express a lot in an icon
       | that's 3D and whatnot but it needs its own stage to 'act' and
       | really come alive, or else it'll just look a bit small, hard to
       | read or a set of them will look too dense and over-egged on a
       | shelf. Maximalism is visually demanding, and whilst it'll look
       | cool, the context is too small for those kind of gaudy claims of
       | some huge game-changer in aesthetics.- It's not I don't welcome
       | them, as I do like diversity, but this is not gonna be some game-
       | changer like when skeuomorphics was binned by Apple.
        
         | skydhash wrote:
         | Most people issues with flat design are the mixing of context.
         | Buttons and icons are not the same. Just like normal text and
         | links are not. And a button that have state (bold button in
         | word processing) shouldn't behave like something that doesn't
         | have one (flip button in image editing). Whether you like
         | minimalism or not, these are constraints that impact usability.
         | A lot of current designers eschew them.
        
       | 0dayz wrote:
       | I'm surprised no one talked about Samsung, their new oneui has
       | moved in a hybrid direction.
       | 
       | In other words it reminds me more of early android design.
       | 
       | I like it.
        
       | simultsop wrote:
       | Back then, all sorts of designs made the web a marvel. Until
       | algorithms kicked in. We stripped the design in favor of machine-
       | understandable information composition. So our thing would be
       | most recommended by AD-pumped services/listings/directories. At
       | the end, outreach mattered more than an elegant product.
       | Unfortunately still does.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | In addition to that, Apple and Google started enforcing style
         | guides for apps, so a lot of the unique UIs that came about in
         | the early days of the app store died out in favour of soulless,
         | boxy designs that would scale well on mobile and tablet.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | > It's not meant to be a grand rebrand of design. A completely
       | invented word. A working title for a style that embraces depth,
       | texture, and light. Not to mimic the real world, but to create
       | something that feels native to the screen. Something expressive.
       | Playful.
       | 
       | I loathe this kind of self serving pseudo humble talk. It's like
       | trying to make or validate something out of its minuscule value.
       | 
       | I don't agree with the author either. If anything Google's
       | material themes have become the defacto trend setter for a while
       | now, and I only know it by the way it "infects" my web usage over
       | time.
        
         | lelanthran wrote:
         | > I don't agree with the author either. If anything Google's
         | material themes have become the defacto trend setter for a
         | while now
         | 
         | Well, yes. _Right now_ that 's the trend. The author is saying
         | that he's seeing a change _now_ that indicates the coming _end_
         | to that trend, not that the trend itself has ended.
         | 
         | FTFA:
         | 
         | > It's always hard to pinpoint when a paradigm shift happens.
         | Usually, you only recognize it in hindsight.
         | 
         | I don't read that as _" The trend has ended"_, I read that as
         | _" In the future (i.e. hindsight) we are going to see these
         | events as the beginning of a new trend"._
         | 
         | Whether or not I agree with his position, to me, _that_ is what
         | he is saying.
        
           | card_zero wrote:
           | Oh OK. _We can see with foresight, that in hindsight, we will
           | see these things happening now that are currently
           | imperceptible._
        
             | lelanthran wrote:
             | > Oh OK. We can see with foresight, that in hindsight, we
             | will see these things happening now that are currently
             | imperceptible.
             | 
             | Let me rephrase - the author is presenting speculation as
             | ... speculation.
             | 
             | This is why I say that, even if I disagree, I don't see the
             | harm in this sort of speculation.
        
       | Aziell wrote:
       | I'm not a designer, but I've been around UI long enough to notice
       | the shift. This new move toward more color, depth, and
       | personality feels like a step in the right direction. It's not
       | just about things looking nicer--it actually makes digital spaces
       | feel alive again.
        
       | GenshoTikamura wrote:
       | So the industry first squeezed talented designers out of the UI
       | business by shoving that ugly ass flat style down everyone's
       | throat, and now they're proposing to cycle back to skeuomorphism
       | which the former were capable of and replace all remaining human
       | designers with AI.
        
         | keyle wrote:
         | Yep this is a good summary.
        
         | forgotoldacc wrote:
         | I was ready for flat design to die 10 years ago. It's
         | astonishingly unintuitive, ugly, the opposite of style, and
         | straight up anti-human. There are still abstract icons in some
         | apps and UIs that I can't wrap my head around and I have to
         | just click and hope I'm right. There are things that I cannot
         | figure out whether they're interactive or not unless I just tap
         | randomly. There are so many occasions where I can't find what
         | I'm looking for because some goober decided contrast and color
         | coding is a sin.
         | 
         | Flat design stands against every single principle of proper
         | design. All I can hope is 40 years from now, there isn't some
         | "retvrn to tradition" BS where a new wave of the youth decide
         | we should return to the "cool classic style of the
         | 2000s-2020s". Let me be an old man and die with the software
         | around me looking beautiful.
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | Proper semiflat design worked well under System7 and AtarI
           | GEM.
        
             | ranger207 wrote:
             | Proper flat design worked great under Windows Phone 8.
             | Still the best phone I've ever used
        
           | mangecoeur wrote:
           | This will happen for sure. Designs are fashions that come and
           | go, like jeans that go from skinny to baggy and back again. I
           | don't think anything is absolute, tastes change and people
           | get used to just about anything, and will mainly gripe when
           | anything changes.
        
         | vachina wrote:
         | This is how you keep another generation of techbros fed and
         | hired. Functionally, things have been stagnant for what felt
         | like decades.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | I look forward to the ultra-skeuomorphic future where our AR
         | glasses deliver notifications rendered as fully realised Art
         | Nouveau-era bellboys handing over telegrams.
        
           | DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
           | This already happened in R W Fassbinder's Welt am Draht
           | (1973) where when you are visiting the hotel in the
           | simulation and your time's over, a bell boy with a chalked
           | notice on a portable blackboard will walk through the hall to
           | alert you to answer the phone in a specific telephone booth.
           | We had a future to look forward to!, and now it's come to
           | this--flat interfaces.
        
           | jayd16 wrote:
           | Renders as dotmatrix printer paper out of your virtual fax
           | machine.
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | I'm a big fan of the "Fukauffen Diamorph" school of design.
        
         | Vinnl wrote:
         | Well, not sure if "the industry" is proposing this yet, or if
         | it's just this one person and the Airbnb guy.
        
           | PedroBatista wrote:
           | There have been rumblings and attempts years prior. Now it
           | only takes another attempt, an industry darling ( it used to
           | be Apple) and a big hype boom on the Internet.
           | 
           | There is one problem tho: flat design is cheap to produce.
           | Not sure if AI is there yet to be capable to produce good
           | enough slop to become an industry trend that sticks.
        
             | soco wrote:
             | I'm not sure "good enough" was even a thing lately - all we
             | do must be cheap while anything else is secondary. And AI
             | can totally do cheap.
        
             | evilfred wrote:
             | Airbnb is an industry darling? in 2025? lol
        
         | DemocracyFTW2 wrote:
         | > shoving that ugly ass flat style down everyone's throat
         | 
         | the correct term is ugly flat ass actually
         | 
         | That and the other thing I hate / despair over is the
         | monumental space they now leave between list items. In some
         | applications I get scrolling drop-down menus because of that.
         | Yes, they'll rather have users scrolling through a menu that
         | doesn't fit on the screen rather than compressing space between
         | items.
        
           | soco wrote:
           | I think that comes from the horror period called "mobile
           | first". Okay maybe I exaggerated a bit, not everybody called
           | it horror. Some called it garbage.
        
         | neepi wrote:
         | This reminds me of something that happened to us recently. So
         | one of the internal things we have is a giant turd that sits on
         | top of some Oracle/SAP mess. The user interface is circa 2001
         | and hasn't changed really. Looks like a cross between Motif and
         | GTK1 it's that bad. The icons are off the shelf ones from some
         | clip art collection.
         | 
         | So they need to rewrite it and got a consultancy to do it. The
         | whole UI got rewritten using react and used an off the shelf
         | flat design. A week after launch they sent out a user survey
         | and nearly every respondent complained about the flat UI. So
         | they made it look like the old one again very quickly.
         | 
         | So now we have a shiny new React app that looks like something
         | from 2001.
         | 
         | I have to wonder if anyone likes flat user interfaces or just
         | user studies are broken.
        
           | williamdclt wrote:
           | They actually polled for user feedback, listened to it and
           | acted on it quickly? That sounds like a great consultancy!
           | 
           | TBH I'd guess that people would have complained whatever the
           | new design was, people hate change. But yes, flat designs are
           | often on the worse end of the spectrum
        
             | neepi wrote:
             | No we dug out a faculty statistician and did the analysis
             | and paid them even more money to fuck it off.
             | 
             | The consultancy resisted this horribly because the tech
             | lead is a performative bullshitter and it doesn't look good
             | on his portfolio page that it looks like something from
             | 2001.
        
               | michaelmrose wrote:
               | He should show both the prettier and the ugly version
               | side by side and give it as an example of him being
               | adaptable and willing to please his client instead of
               | himself.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | > I have to wonder if anyone likes flat user interfaces or
           | just user studies are broken.
           | 
           | My impression was that it was an attempt to get engineers to
           | be able to do the design, rather than involving graphic
           | artists.
           | 
           | I also think that we often conflate pretty with usable.
           | There's nothing more interesting than these user interfaces
           | that has grown organically for 20+ years. They look "bad" or
           | at least old, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily
           | have poor ergonomics. Some people, myself included, have
           | tried to force that old-school, hodgepodge look, but you
           | can't really do that either, it doesn't work. You just end up
           | with ugly and confusing. Those interfaces has to evolve
           | organically.
        
           | giva wrote:
           | Sane people don't want to invest time learning a new UI just
           | because it's prettier.
        
             | esafak wrote:
             | But it might improve the UX for others. You can't please
             | everyone.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | > So they need to rewrite it and got a consultancy to do it.
           | 
           | Why? Was it broken?
        
           | cardanome wrote:
           | I think modern UI is mostly optimized for onboarding new
           | users. For that it makes sense to have a more minimalist UI
           | that doesn't make the user think too hard and does not
           | overwhelm them.
           | 
           | But if you need to do actual work you want maximum
           | information density. You want icons that are easy to tell
           | apart by color, not some sleek minimalist grey in grey.
           | 
           | If you use a tool every day for multiple hours your UI needs
           | will be vastly different. We have forgotten how to build
           | tools for power users.
        
             | kunzhi wrote:
             | _> But if you need to do actual work you want maximum
             | information density. You want icons that are easy to tell
             | apart by color, not some sleek minimalist grey in grey._
             | 
             | IMHO Photoshop is still the classic example of this. The UI
             | can feel overwhelming at first, like dropping into a
             | helicopter cockpit. But once you start getting a hang of
             | what you're doing, anything more "minimal" just feels like
             | dumbing things down for the lowest common denominator.
             | 
             | From what I've seen in large enterprises, it's also why OG
             | users are so attached to their mainframe terminal UIs. Yes,
             | it's very hard to learn, but once you've developed some
             | facility, everything else feels unusably slow.
             | 
             | I've never had a bad experience designing like I respect
             | the users intelligence. Humans are insanely smart and
             | capable, treat them that way and good results occur.
        
               | rondini wrote:
               | How is photoshop a classic example when all of the icons
               | and controls are quite literally grey in grey like the
               | person you quoted was denouncing?
        
               | DiggyJohnson wrote:
               | because of the information / functionality density and
               | the fact that it's optimized for power users
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | It's not grey on grey. It has cleanly delineated section,
               | and most of them has been in the same place for ages. And
               | there's thing like tooltips that help.
        
               | falcor84 wrote:
               | > Humans are insanely smart and capable, treat them that
               | way and good results occur.
               | 
               | My experience isn't quite that. While _most_ humans _can
               | be_ capable when they _want_ to, in typical situations
               | they often don 't and aren't. People who have put in
               | years to become proficient in mainframe terminals aren't
               | representative people in a typical situation; most people
               | (myself definitely included) perform most daily actions
               | on autopilot.
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | And autopilot rely on consistent environment. Full focus
               | isn't sustainable. Training and practice rely on this
               | capability, ingraining something in muscle memory so you
               | don't have to pay that much attention. When someone wants
               | to fill a form or process some data, the less he/she pays
               | attention to each action, the better it is.
               | 
               | EDIT
               | 
               | And that's why I like Vim and most TUI that much. I don't
               | need to follow the cursor or wait an abitrary amount of
               | time because "reasons". It's all muscle memory, and my
               | attention is more on what I'm trying to do than how I'm
               | doing it.
        
               | jimmaswell wrote:
               | GIMP's icon redeisign and new tool layout were a massive
               | mistake IMO, first thing I do on a new install is disable
               | tool groups and change the color scheme to "legacy"
        
               | starkparker wrote:
               | > Humans are insanely smart and capable, treat them that
               | way and good results occur
               | 
               | Obviously, maybe more obviouisly now than ever in
               | recorded history, not all humans are smart or capable.
               | 
               | Regardless of capability, however, many humans excel at
               | memorizing complex routes across obscure paths that they
               | experience through spaced repetition, which research
               | suggests can alter memory pathways in the brain to
               | facilitate easier recall[1] and also engages memory
               | functions in our nervous systems beyond our brain.[2]
               | 
               | Any UI, including bad ones, can foster efficient
               | workflows in any user _if_ it accomplishes things
               | compatible with repetitive use:
               | 
               | - the UI's behaviors and interactions are minimally
               | interally consistent
               | 
               | - the UI has pathways from a starting point to a result
               | that are discoverable through those behaviors and
               | interactions
               | 
               | - the UI's reactions to input are sufficiently efficient
               | to avoid arbitrary or dynamic pauses, which can disrupt
               | effective repetition
               | 
               | - the UI's interactions are minimally accessible to
               | people; if they use buttons, shapes, colors, sounds,
               | controls, etc., a person can consistently distinguish
               | between and physically access them when necessary
               | 
               | - a person interacts with the UI long enough to find
               | those pathways from starting points to results, and does
               | so repetitively over long time spans
               | 
               | Modern UI design often attempts to reduce the time to
               | value for users at arbitrary experience levels, at the
               | expense of maintaining the consistency of pathways that
               | reward longtime users who have accumulated training.
               | 
               | The only people using the UI when the change happens are
               | people with a non-zero amount of accumulated training.
               | Any change disrupts consistency. It's a net negative to
               | the people who are around to complain about it, and also
               | resets the often competitive field of users; not only do
               | experienced users have to relearn their workflows to
               | avoid committing errors or wasting time, they also have
               | to compete with new users who have easier access to
               | results that previously required experience through
               | repetition to efficiently reach.
               | 
               | For example, a UI designer might change the UI to surface
               | a feature that they want users to access more easily by
               | making it require 1 or 2 interactions to reach, but a
               | veteran user already has "easy" access to that feature
               | even if it takes 6 or 7 interactions to reach it, some of
               | them obscure. If the change removes the result from the
               | end of the old pathway and moves it to a new one that
               | experienced users don't know, the new UI becomes less
               | efficient for them no matter how smart or capable they
               | are (or aren't). Both the new user and experienced user
               | might be smart and capable or stupid and incompetent; the
               | differentiating factor is experience.
               | 
               | Arguably, the "smart and capable humans" who use complex
               | UIs are either the ones who achieve a level of power to
               | prevent UI changes that degrade consistency of existing
               | pathways to preserve their productivity at the expense of
               | less-experienced users needing more time and training (at
               | which point they probably don't need to use that UI
               | anymore anyway, and the act mostly rewards other
               | experienced users), or the ones who divert time that
               | might be spent complaining about UI changes toward
               | adapting to the new UI's pathways.
               | 
               | The truly disruptive UI/UX changes for repetitively used
               | workflows are the ones that introduce unpredictable
               | delays between interactions. Repetition rewards rhythm
               | and consistent feedback, and unpredictable interaction
               | delays destroy both.
               | 
               | 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07425-w
               | 
               | 2: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-53922-x
        
               | neepi wrote:
               | The mainframe terminal user interface was shown to me in
               | all its glory by Italian gate staff at the airport in
               | Rome. Literally hammered through a security check after I
               | was flagged as having two return flights. It was no less
               | than a form of kata.
               | 
               | I can imagine how shit it would have been if you have to
               | log into windows and open a web app and use the mouse and
               | stuff to click through a web form hacked up to do the
               | job.
        
               | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
               | > IMHO Photoshop is still the classic example of this.
               | The UI can feel overwhelming at first, like dropping into
               | a helicopter cockpit. But once you start getting a hang
               | of what you're doing, anything more "minimal" just feels
               | like dumbing things down for the lowest common
               | denominator.
               | 
               | while i agree, i wish more dense applications like
               | Photoshop took the Rhino3D approach of integrating a CLI
               | directly into the interface. yes, you can click the icons
               | or select tools from the menu, but being able to just
               | type a command and arguments (or have it prompt for the
               | arguments ex-post-facto) feels just incredible in an
               | otherwise-GUI application, in a way that memorizing
               | keyboard shortcuts just doesn't compare.
        
             | robertlagrant wrote:
             | It's worse - modern UI is for onboarding new customers. The
             | calculus of what to prioritise should change when your
             | customers aren't your users.
        
           | dahjelle wrote:
           | > I have to wonder if anyone likes flat user interfaces or
           | just user studies are broken.
           | 
           | I don't have any experience in running user studies, but it
           | sounds difficult separate the momentary frustration and drop
           | in efficiency that a change in _familiarity_ brings from an
           | actual difference in long-term _usability_. Do you know if
           | the user survey the consultancy did tried to account for
           | this?
        
           | gherkinnn wrote:
           | Familiarity bias and coping mechanisms.
           | 
           | https://xkcd.com/1172/
        
           | KronisLV wrote:
           | > A week after launch they sent out a user survey and nearly
           | every respondent complained about the flat UI.
           | 
           | When have most users ever enjoyed a new UI in a system that
           | they're used to? Genuinely asking, because while I enjoy
           | things like new icon themes and even the UI of Windows 11,
           | most of the time I've seen people complain about any new UI
           | that displaces something that they're familiar with.
           | 
           | If I'm wrong and it's _just_ the flat design that is the real
           | issue (which might also be true), then wouldn 't the solution
           | be to pick any other modern look and feel, instead of
           | necessarily reverting to the very old one? Not that there's
           | necessarily anything wrong with the more old timey UI design,
           | I think that Windows 9X versions had really good design,
           | perhaps despite some usability issues like no proper fuzzy
           | search in the actual OS etc.
           | 
           | I quite like how themable PrimeVue/PrimeReact/PrimeNG is and
           | swapping themes _shouldn 't_ be something impossible, though
           | I don't doubt that with many of the libraries out there that
           | ends up being the case: https://primereact.org/inputgroup/
           | (click the little palette in the corner to switch themes)
        
             | skydhash wrote:
             | Flat design doesn't help with discoverability, because
             | you're never sure what's an icon and a button, and if it's
             | one, what it is for. But familiarity is another constraint,
             | especially spatial relations and action flows.
        
             | neepi wrote:
             | Well the problem was that they got a new UI anyway when
             | they didn't need or want one.
             | 
             | I think that was the problem.
        
             | cardanome wrote:
             | > When have most users ever enjoyed a new UI in a system
             | that they're used to?
             | 
             | Blender.
             | 
             | Is has seen some drastic changes in UI but barely any
             | backlash. Even holy-cows like right-click select got
             | mercilessly slaughtered and I am not even mad about it, in
             | fact I love the changes.
             | 
             | The main thing is that they are focusing on providing value
             | to users and are dog footing their own software to create
             | movies.
             | 
             | But yeah, generally people hate change and you should avoid
             | changing things as much as possible. Sadly that doesn't
             | work with the way incentives in most companies work.
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | Doing a proper, unbiased usability study is difficult. I only
           | worked at once company that had a dedicated user research
           | team. The rest the time we designers had to run remote
           | usability tests ourselves, for our own work, which is of
           | course a pretty poor way to get any kind of objective result.
           | No one wants to say, "hey, I tested my design and it _sucked_
           | hard. Can I have another four weeks to try again? "
           | Furthermore, we often didn't really have much of a say in the
           | fundamentals of the visual appearance, we had to follow the
           | brand standards and GUI pattern library that was chosen by
           | other people. The brand guidelines were often delivered from
           | on high from an outside consultancy, while the GUI pattern
           | library was often produced in-house and robustly tested, but
           | never perfect.
        
           | hulitu wrote:
           | > Looks like a cross between Motif and GTK1 it's that bad
           | 
           | You should see Material design or Windows 11.
        
           | xandrius wrote:
           | Sounds like a win for the tech team at least.
        
           | bazoom42 wrote:
           | The best UI is the UI the users are already familiar with.
        
         | poulpy123 wrote:
         | I really prefer reasonably flat style UI (i.e. as long as the
         | parts are easily differentiables) than the skeumorphic one.
        
           | raincole wrote:
           | Flat design is great. I'd probably use my phone much less if
           | apps started using a skeuomorphic menu icon (that resembles a
           | physical menu in restaurant) than 3-dot or 3-bar.
           | 
           | The problem is designers who take 'flat' as 'literally
           | nothing indicating its interactivity.'
        
           | a022311 wrote:
           | I can't believe I had to scroll so much to find a positive
           | comment about flat UI design. If it's disliked so much, we
           | should have moved away from it ages ago. Yet, we are where we
           | are and that means something.
           | 
           | I personally like the current idea of "modern" UI, although
           | it does tend to get too bloated at times. I generally prefer
           | something minimal compared to old designs which weren't
           | consistent, made heavy use of shadows and were pretty
           | chaotic. Don't try to tell me old UI was playful (although as
           | evidenced in the post, skeuomorphic UI _can_ be).
           | 
           | The point about some interfaces' usability being hampered by
           | flat UI is valid. Complicated applications full of buttons
           | with single-color icons are very hard to navigate. I find
           | this especially true for GTK apps where the design system
           | enforces a very specific icon style. Example: Pinta was
           | designed to be very close to paint.net, but due to its flat
           | design, it is very hard to navigate. On the other hand, while
           | paint.net may look a little outdated, the design is
           | consistent and optimized for efficient workflows.
           | 
           | I think the ideal design is somewhere in between flat and
           | skeuomorphic. IMHO programs like Office and Inkscape make UI
           | elements clear, while maintaining the ability for efficient
           | workflows. Icons are simple, but a touch of color makes it
           | trivial to distinguish between them.
           | 
           | Not every UI design is perfect for everyone, but interfaces
           | should be designed with different needs in mind. "Power
           | users" most likely just need better keyboard support and care
           | less about how the UI looks.
        
         | cainxinth wrote:
         | This is broader than UX. Many trends are cyclical. So don't
         | throw out your skinny jeans!
        
           | allears wrote:
           | Not a problem, I just bought a couple of new pairs. I lost a
           | bunch of weight recently and can't resist showing off.
        
         | jerf wrote:
         | It seems like there's a lot of people in this conversation on
         | HN still operating on a dichotomy between "skeuomorphism" and
         | "flat". But "skeuomorphism" really ought to be reserved for
         | those UIs that have an excessively-strong physical metaphor,
         | tied to the real world. That's a restricted set of interfaces.
         | They've never really been that popular. It's not likely to make
         | a "comeback" and it's debatable whether they were ever popular
         | enough to be characterized as making a "comeback" at all.
         | 
         | Both skeuomorphic UIs and flat UIs are particular points (or
         | small regions) in a much vaster design space and we should not
         | speak as if we are obligated to cycle between those two
         | particular points, because it will become a self-fulfilling
         | prophecy. There's many, many, many options beyond those two.
        
           | philistine wrote:
           | People are too hung up on the look of the interface when they
           | talk about skeuomorphic design.
           | 
           | It used to be that on iOS the bottom tabs would get indented
           | when they were selected. That Z-axis intent, that apps would
           | have even when they weren't very skeuomorphic, that I hope it
           | returns.
        
             | jerf wrote:
             | I kind of get that sense too. Sure, a "button" may be
             | "skeuomorphic", but it's also a perfectly sensible
             | graphical indication of a place that can be clicked, and
             | only a small minority of "buttons" in the real world ever
             | looked like a UI button. The UIs as a whole shouldn't be
             | classified as "skeuomorphic". That generation of interfaces
             | did a lot of other things that were only vaguely related to
             | the real world... we have tabs, but tabs don't act like
             | this. Looking up at my tab bar right now, they aren't even
             | styled as "tabs", and nobody cares because that was never
             | the core part of the appeal. Non-flat design had IMHO a
             | much richer design language than flat design ever
             | developed. Missing that design language and being forced
             | into baby-speak for so much UI, when GUIs are already baby-
             | speak themselves in so many ways (yes, the old UNIX hacker
             | still sees the world this way) is very frustrating.
             | 
             | Even just a couple of layer's worth of visual depth, that
             | ".5D", is so very useful.
        
           | hauxir wrote:
           | the middle ground is commonly called Neumorphism
        
         | jayd16 wrote:
         | Icons are a small part of the flat design issues. I still don't
         | see button borders and clear touchable sections in around these
         | icons.
        
       | dusted wrote:
       | I want to be excited about this, I _HATE_ the flatness of
       | android, windows 10/11, even macos.. but I'm afraid they'll fuck
       | it up.. the 3D objects will be actual objects, everything will be
       | crufted on top of the bloated dumpster-fire that is "modern" UI
       | "frameworks". If git had been with us since the 00s, we could
       | just do a hard-reset down to the latest commit before it became
       | flat and ugly.
        
       | JR1427 wrote:
       | Good UI and UX isn't about which icons to use etc, it's about
       | making the user's journey through an app match how they're
       | thinking about the problem.
       | 
       | In my team we spend so much time picking icons, and checking that
       | we are matching the design patterns of other apps (yawn...), that
       | we have just ended up with a UX that doesn't prioritise the
       | number one reason people use our app.
        
         | rambambram wrote:
         | This. And I'd like to add: sometimes the best icons are these
         | little characters called the alphabet. Combined they're very
         | powerful and are called 'words'.
        
           | XorNot wrote:
           | This was how I did my car PC decades ago.
           | 
           | Just big buttons with words on them. Words become symbols and
           | do at a glance you could still easily tell what everything is
           | even if you wouldn't actually read it when using it.
        
             | pona-a wrote:
             | And then they became featureless monochrome blobs because
             | that's the new trend, and now words are again needed to
             | tell what each is supposed to mean.
        
           | blueflow wrote:
           | Characters are also easier to learn than emojis and
           | iconographs because there are less of them.
        
             | powvans wrote:
             | There are thousands of Chinese characters and thousands of
             | Kanji. Maybe we are destined to replace all existing
             | written language with 10's of thousands of emoji?
             | 
             | I'll be illiterate in that world, but my kids seem to grok
             | it.
        
               | skydhash wrote:
               | AFAIK, Chinese characters are words, not a more basic
               | unit. The thing with emoji is that there's no easy way to
               | use them without typing their associated terms.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Wouldn't this be closer to hieroglyphics?
        
               | raincole wrote:
               | Chinese characters can be used as a writing system
               | because they're actually highly abstract. They don't look
               | like what their ancestors were supposed to represent.
               | That's a feature, not a bug.
               | 
               | The issue with emoji is that they're very literal.
        
               | seanmcdirmid wrote:
               | The irony is that I think Jiong  is the only emoji that
               | is allowed on HN. Seriously, though, there are plenty of
               | very old out of use characters that can be used as emoji,
               | and modern use of Chinese characters in new words is
               | increasingly phonetic.
        
             | dnpls wrote:
             | So you believe it's easier to learn which combination of
             | letters in the context of a given interface means "home" or
             | "chat" than an icon? You don't understand how the human
             | brain works, it's much quicker to discern an icon as you
             | glance at a screen then find a word and get your brain to
             | interpret their meaning. There are 26 letters in the
             | English alphabet, an enormous amount of dictionary words,
             | but it very unusual to have a single screen containing more
             | than 10 different icons.
        
               | blueflow wrote:
               | To understand icons, they must resemble something you
               | have seen before. If you were born in 2005, you won't
               | know what the button with the floppy disk on it does
               | because you have never seen or used a floppy.
               | 
               | Or a cloud to mean "upload", or a thin moon crescent to
               | mean "sleep".
               | 
               | These are things that don't derive from the real world
               | (any more) and must be explicitly communicated.
        
           | __m wrote:
           | words are good to understand the meaning of the icons if they
           | are more abstract, but once you know the meaning it's easier
           | to scan a list of icons than a list of words
        
           | OskarS wrote:
           | I was just having a discussion with our customer support
           | manager for an coming update to our software. He made this
           | point, "I really like it when buttons have names. Then I can
           | tell the customers 'click the EXPORT button' instead of
           | 'click the little button that kinda looks like a square with
           | an arrow pointing out of it'".
           | 
           | It really is a very good point.
        
         | zppln wrote:
         | Icon selection definitely plays a part. Flat, monochrome icons
         | are just garbage. A particularly bad example is editing a page
         | in Confluence where you know there should be a button for e.g.
         | fill color but you can't find it because every single icon
         | looks the same.
        
       | simgt wrote:
       | So, same as every other kind of design: form over function and
       | cycle in-between various styles to keep on selling. Except here I
       | guess what's being sold is the time of the designers inside corps
       | who need to keep on changing things to have a job. Just give me
       | old Airbnb, old Slack, old iOS, old Google Maps, I could find my
       | way through it just fine.
        
       | drooopy wrote:
       | Can the UI future be Mac OS 9 platinum with 265-colour icons
       | again, please?
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | System 7 was cleaner.
        
           | drooopy wrote:
           | I would be OK with that as well.
        
       | hermitcrab wrote:
       | Diamorphism already has a meaning:
       | 
       | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dimorphism "the
       | existence of two different forms (as of color or size) of a
       | species especially in the same population. sexual dimorphism. b.
       | : the existence of a part (such as leaves of a plant) in two
       | different forms."
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | That's di-morphic. Di- means two. Dia- means across, or
         | between. I suppose the idea is a middle style.
         | 
         | Unfortunate similarity to _diamorphine_ though.
        
           | hermitcrab wrote:
           | You are right. Thanks for the correction. The fact that they
           | are so similar still makes it a bad choice though IMO.
        
       | constantcrying wrote:
       | There used to be a school of design which understood that design
       | first and foremost is _pragmatic_ and that it needs to be
       | understood as a form of communication. Very few people care about
       | design as such, they care about the functionality.
       | 
       | For decades I have seen a bizarre iteration over various
       | "aesthetics" of interface design, each successive step having
       | been hailed as a new, better way to interact with our devices.
       | Consistently each step has made interacting with devices more
       | tedious.
       | 
       | Design isn't about how colorful your icons are or how many
       | dimensions they have. I think it is very clear that the quality
       | of the work designers do has drastically declined, especially the
       | focus of aesthetic experience over usability has been an absolute
       | disaster.
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | The style of user interfaces has gotten more colorful and
       | dimensional, but the actual user interface has generally gotten
       | worse.
       | 
       | For example, I just bought a new scanner. It has a hot mess of a
       | user interface. It mashes together all kinds of selection
       | schemes, with little rhyme or reason. You just have to randomly
       | click on things, navigating up and down, until you eventually
       | find, say, the destination folder to write the scans to.
       | 
       | Just the other day I installed Pandora on my phone. I had to ask
       | grok how to close the app, as it has no X button. Blarf. Probably
       | somebody got an award for this.
        
       | Designhub wrote:
       | I think its look like the gradient type of things getting better
       | instead of the solid color.
        
       | mtaras wrote:
       | I hate those Airbnb icons. They look like nothing, just objects
       | in a somewhat cartoon-y style. I much prefer where both Apple and
       | Google move UI design.
        
       | agos wrote:
       | if you really want to laugh, check out who is the person/firm
       | behind this whimsical, tactile, colorful redesign. I won't spoil
       | you the fun of guessing.
        
       | vijucat wrote:
       | Designers are so out of touch. That whole criticism of Comic Sans
       | is one example. Slowly, I'm coming to the conclusion that
       | designers should never be employed, only consulted on a per-
       | project basis. If they sit around 8 hours a day, they end up
       | changing something or the other to justify their existence. But
       | human beings are not used to change at such a rapid cadence.
       | Humans take time to settle into a design and establish patterns
       | of usage.
        
         | ho_schi wrote:
         | You sound like someone purchasing a new ThinkPad and
         | "Why they added a camera bump? Sticking out of display lid. A
         | thing nobody ask for".
         | 
         | followed by                    "Why the made the base flat. But
         | removed the rounded palm rest? Adding a sharp corner."
         | 
         | followed by                    "Why the removed the dent which
         | allowed to open the display lid, which didn't protruded out of
         | the device?"
         | 
         | I appreciate nice design. But if it doesn't follows function,
         | it is harmful.
         | 
         | PS: I'm frustrated about the new ThinkPads with a camera bump
         | sticking out of the display. Everybody hates camera bumps. The
         | display lid is broad and provides much space for adding
         | multiple cameras, microphones and sensors of all kind. I
         | know...this topic is about software UI. The change for the sake
         | of the change itself is not beneficial.
        
         | tiborsaas wrote:
         | Out of all the things, you brought up Comic Sans, which is
         | really hard to defend other than ironic use cases and no,
         | there's no proof either it helps dyslexia. Even if it does,
         | there are also better alternatives in the accessibility space.
         | 
         | How many designer friends do you have? Do you know what they do
         | daily? We know your preconception that regardless of company
         | size and product they are just counting beans.
        
           | ehecatl42 wrote:
           | Comic Sans has an excellent, unironic, track record as an
           | assistive tool for young kids struggling with dyslexia.
        
             | tiborsaas wrote:
             | You can do better. This was the first Google result:
             | https://dyslexiefont.com/en/
             | 
             | But there are plenty more. Why settle on the worst one?
        
               | entuno wrote:
               | Are any of those other "better" alternatives installed by
               | default on Windows?
        
               | moooo99 wrote:
               | Maybe because it's that Comic sans is widely available
               | and preinstalled on many systems as a ,,good enough"
               | option while others are very costly very quickly
        
           | vijucat wrote:
           | > which is really hard to defend
           | 
           | Can you please tell me your thoughts on how it is "hard to
           | defend"?
           | 
           | My thoughts: How can designers criticize the use of Comic
           | Sans? If users use it where it's connotations (childlike,
           | casual) are appropriate, such as birthday parties, and love
           | it, who are designers to comment on it? I find this
           | indefensible, as if design sensibilities have a foundation
           | very much like mathematics or physics and there is a clearly
           | Universal litmus test of good design and bad design. There
           | isn't. In fact, arbitrary mores of fashion such as "Comic
           | Sans is uncool" are the very tell that design has foundations
           | as strong as a piece of string in the wind. The disdain for
           | Comic Sans reeks of elitism, where designers gatekeep "good
           | taste" based on arbitrary conventions.
        
             | levmiseri wrote:
             | Designers don't critize Comic Sans's usage when it's
             | appropriate. It's when it's not. Like a funeral service's
             | signage. Or a lawyer. And the massive amount of such
             | objectively wrong usage in the wild is where you see
             | designers crying about it.
        
               | thesuitonym wrote:
               | Sure, but then why pick on Comic Sans? Lots of fonts get
               | used inappropriately.
        
               | vanviegen wrote:
               | It's just the most common example, as thanks to Microsoft
               | it comes preinstalled on just about any computer. Given
               | the typically short list of fonts to pick from, many
               | people will (would?) pick Comic Sans when they want their
               | text to look a bit 'different'.
               | 
               | However, I _do_ agree that making fun of people picking
               | the wrong font is a bit elitist. At least Comic Sans is
               | easy to read, so one could do worse.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | I think you'll find Comic Sans in second place behind
               | Papyrus.
        
               | allears wrote:
               | Now you're talkin' my language! I use Papyrus for
               | everything
        
               | xandrius wrote:
               | Definitely the best font on Windows and no designer told
               | me about it!
        
               | adastra22 wrote:
               | Why are those usages inappropriate, if people like it?
        
             | tiborsaas wrote:
             | Nobody cares about using comic sans for a children's party,
             | are you making a straw man argument?
             | 
             | > ...good design and bad design. There isn't.
             | 
             | It's called good taste. It's not science of course, good
             | design is organic, it evolves, it converges. See
             | carcinisation.
             | 
             | > The disdain for Comic Sans reeks of elitism, where
             | designers gatekeep "good taste" based on arbitrary
             | conventions.
             | 
             | Kinda true, get over it. Trust the people with good taste
             | and if you want to do great, pay them to do this work for
             | you.
             | 
             | But if you have an uncanny love affair with Comic Sans, no
             | force in the Universe can stop you, have fun with it, you
             | are free to ignore everybody.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | Comic Sans was proven to be objectively easier to read.
           | That's why it was designed.
        
             | adastra22 wrote:
             | It was designed to mimic comic book lettering.
             | 
             | But yes, comic book lettering is done a specific way for a
             | reason.
        
         | constantcrying wrote:
         | Designer right now value aesthetics over usability. If your
         | design starts out from the question "how do we make this more
         | user friendly", you will arrive at a totally different answer
         | than when you ask "how do we make this look like everything
         | else, but also stand out".
         | 
         | Aesthetics are essentially worthless for a user interface and
         | should always be a secondary concern. But clearly designers
         | have elevated aesthetics over usability, hence the numerous and
         | constant redesigns of everything.
         | 
         | If you care about usability you know that a redesign
         | necessarily comes at a great cost, since you are breaking many
         | of the mental connections of your users. It is only justifiable
         | if there is some serious gain by doing that.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | > Aesthetics are essentially worthless for a user interface
           | and should always be a secondary concern.
           | 
           | That is one of my random thoughts: Windows could have kept
           | the Windows 95 look and been perfectly usable. Sure there
           | might have been a need for certain UI tweaks, but for most
           | office/home use there was no reason to change it.
           | 
           | The whole "let's make it friendly" is annoying. If it's a
           | tool make it practical. If you need to write a manual because
           | of that, then please, go right a head and do that.
        
           | floating-io wrote:
           | The problem is that design tends to be driven by the
           | marketing department...
        
         | levmiseri wrote:
         | With such a strong opinion on designers and design as a
         | discipline, I got curious and had to peek at your other
         | comments and -- even though I'd normally hate to do this -- the
         | irony was just too strong with this one from only few hours
         | ago:
         | 
         | > ... Lesson: people with grave incompetence at programming
         | feel completely competent to judge what programming is and
         | should be.
         | 
         | Your own lesson applies here perfectly, only substitute
         | programming with design.
        
           | DiggyJohnson wrote:
           | I'm not sure how that is relevant. Pulling up someone's
           | unrelated comments because you disagree with the current
           | discussion is discouraged at best.
        
           | floating-io wrote:
           | Do you think that "being competent at design" is the only
           | requirement for designers?
           | 
           | I would say that it's more important to be competent in
           | determining how design is going to be understood and used by
           | users in their individual workflows. Few are more competent
           | to judge that than the users themselves.
           | 
           | I'm pretty sure most folks have seen and experienced the
           | negative impacts of designers changing things for the sake of
           | change (or to justify their paychecks).
        
             | levmiseri wrote:
             | Being competent in determining how design is going to be
             | understood and used by users IS being competent at design.
             | 
             | There is a massive amount of bad design out there -- made
             | by designers. There is a large amount of bad software
             | implementations. By programmers. And awful chairs, food,
             | and ...
        
         | seanmcdirmid wrote:
         | Most designers don't do that, and are plenty overworked in most
         | organizations that they don't have time to gratuitously fiddle
         | with new UI trends anyways. In fact, these kind of things
         | usually come from non-designer VPs or SVPs who are trying to
         | "spice" up the product much to the chagrin of designers on
         | staff (I'm married to a UXD and this comes up often).
        
       | lippihom wrote:
       | Interesting - wrote this a few days ago about information
       | density: https://www.lippihom.com/blog/designing-for-cognition-
       | the-en.... Lots of overlap with how it seems like "old" UI
       | elements are coming back.
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | The article really is just about using AI to create non-flat
       | icons. The rest of the UI is still flat and hasn't changed.
        
       | sd9 wrote:
       | The new Airbnb icons perform horribly on my 2019 Macbook.
       | Interacting with the tabs is something like 5fps.
       | 
       | Performance aside, the author's game selector design is so much
       | nicer than Airbnb's implementation.
        
         | seabombs wrote:
         | Terrible performance for me too. Firefox, 3600X and 6800XT.
         | Especially as the header morphs when you scroll down.
         | 
         | I don't mind the icons and general aethetic direction, but
         | seriously undermined by the very noticeable, janky performance.
         | Makes it feel cheap.
        
       | pzo wrote:
       | I'm not a fan o this design - UX is worse and everything seems
       | like screaming for attention. I like flat design because it's
       | easier to guide user into the most important part of the screen
       | and avoiding distractions. I could understand maybe 3d animation
       | so you can embed somehow more information what this icon do but
       | making this everything so colorful is distasteful for me. For
       | desktop I still prefer to have just on hover have text to tell
       | what icon do.
        
         | virtualritz wrote:
         | I disagree in part.
         | 
         | For the reason that in flat design, what is an interactive
         | element and what is text or even decoration, is not clearly
         | separated.
         | 
         | Especially people who are older and do not spend crazy amounts
         | of time on their smartphones, since forever, struggle with flat
         | design.
         | 
         | I could see this happening with my parents when the 3D UI
         | buttons of the 80's and 90's and the skeomorphic design trend
         | of the first decade gave way to flat design.
         | 
         | It's just not clear where a text ends and something that can be
         | clicked or tapped on starts. When all you have to distinguish
         | them is a change in background color or some flat frame.
         | 
         | You need to grow up with this tech or have an intricate
         | understanding of digital interfaces to find this easy and/or
         | natural.
         | 
         | I agree as far as using 3D objects goes. This is just a gimmick
         | and a bad idea.
         | 
         | Any icon should be as simple as possible to convey meaning.
         | Abstract; so it can be rendered in many adverse conditions
         | without requiring change in shape or shading.
         | 
         | The icon sets in that blog post are the opposite of that.
        
       | mangecoeur wrote:
       | "The future is..." well it might be until the next fashion change
       | comes about.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | "Digital Design" has been fully subsumed by the needs of business
       | for a long time now. When smartphones were new, an argument could
       | be made that HCI was just as important as content in onboarding
       | users to a new type of device with different levels of
       | information density. There were developments like double-tap on
       | to center a text block in the viewport, pinch to zoom, pull to
       | refresh, swipe across cards to switch apps (WebOS came up with
       | that one).
       | 
       | Now? It's completely flatlined, the changes are incremental and
       | made only in the service of getting you to buy more, view more
       | ads and hide fees until the last possible moment in the checkout
       | funnel.
        
       | p3rls wrote:
       | The PC mouse wire looks like garbage, throw it out and do it
       | over.
        
       | deforciant wrote:
       | as a primarily backend developer I find cursor and chatgpt/grok
       | (for more compelx components) totally amazing. I can finally
       | build UIs that I want for my projects :) I think I have good
       | taste (lol) I just could never spend those hours and days
       | polishing.
       | 
       | Now I can ask it to do some frontend while I focus on backend in
       | the meantime.
       | 
       | We just need the sales agent now.
        
       | garylkz wrote:
       | So a full circle from colorful design to simplified design to
       | flat design then to colorful design again.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | All I see is annoying pointless animations.
       | 
       | Are they part of the actual airbnb "new site" or just the
       | article's vision?
        
       | breadwinner wrote:
       | A while ago I read this news about Microsoft bringing back 3D and
       | skeuomorphism:
       | https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/20/24249735/microsoft-fluent...
       | 
       | Then it turns out Microsoft brought back 3D in the worst way
       | possible: The non-interactive parts are now 3D -- and look
       | interactive -- while the interactive parts are still flat like
       | before.
       | 
       | I am trying to find examples, here's one:
       | https://imgur.com/a/8tjT42h
       | 
       | Notice the top part has a 3D graphic which invites clicking...
       | but it is dead. And the live parts look dead and don't invite
       | interaction.
        
       | IAmGraydon wrote:
       | I'm not convinced.
       | 
       | Unlike fashion, where self-expression is central, UI/UX design
       | isn't driven by aesthetic cycles - it's fundamentally about
       | function. The goal is to disappear, serving as a seamless bridge
       | between the user and the task at hand.
       | 
       | Skeuomorphism had its moment because it provided familiarity in
       | the early days of digital interfaces, helping users transition
       | into a new paradigm. But that need has passed. Design has
       | evolved, not cyclically, but linearly - toward clarity,
       | efficiency, and minimal cognitive friction.
       | 
       | What we're seeing now may be visually novel, but I don't believe
       | it represents a true paradigm shift. If anything, it's a
       | stylistic flourish layered on top of the same core goal: helping
       | people get things done as easily and intuitively as possible.
        
       | mmooss wrote:
       | > Back in the early 2000s, UI design like this had a high skill
       | ceiling. It took years to master lighting, materials, and depth.
       | Now? That level of craft is often just a [AI] prompt away.
       | 
       | That is very interesting: Modernism and its descendents were very
       | much about minimalism - how much could you do with minimal
       | components. It applies to visual aesthetics (including much of
       | abstract art), writing (e.g., Hemingway), architecture, and much
       | else, even some music (singer-songwriters, Philip Glass). It's
       | democratic - anyone can do it, or far more than can design
       | complicated aesthetics. There have been other trends since, some
       | rejecting that concept, but you can see that minimalism
       | everywhere, in clothes, in industrial design, and even in HN's
       | design. 'Great designers', you may have heard, 'focus not on what
       | to add, but on what to take away'.
       | 
       | AI enables maximalism; it could transform aesthetics in
       | everything. It enables complexity - including in fashion, in
       | architecture, in writing, almost everywhere.
       | 
       | This theory is that AI removes the issue of efficiency for the
       | creator: AI allows people to create maximalist, or non-minimalist
       | design easily. Still, minimalism's value is very much about
       | efficiency for the user, including focus. Excess design is a
       | distraction and is generally not productive - how does
       | distracting us with detailed icons help us? What is the value?
       | 
       | I love that efficiency in modernism. HN takes the minimalist
       | approach, iirc, in part to attract a community that is focused on
       | its content and not bells and whistles. And I worry that in
       | broader society, as people now routinely hide from very serious
       | dangers (to freedom, to peace, from climate change, etc.), this
       | new trend will be more circuses to distract us.
        
         | kelseyfrog wrote:
         | I think it's important to mention the two main underlying
         | streams of thought in functional that contribute to minimalism:
         | Louis Henry Sullivan's maxim "form follows function," and
         | Adolph Loo's Ornament and Crime[1]. Both of these made
         | ornamentation unjustifiable, either that ornamentation doesn't
         | have a function, or that it is a product of uncivilized
         | impulses.
         | 
         | What's left is that every design choice must be functional
         | leaving minimalism as the bleached bones of design - the only
         | thing left after everything has been stripped away. I want to
         | be clear that functionalism and minimalism are not synonymous,
         | but one's impact on the other is rarely overstated.
         | 
         | 1. https://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Ornament_und_Verbrechen
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | I want a flat, low bitrate, low color, easily re-identifiable
       | icon that, when 'clicked', depresses in a perfect square
       | footprint to indicate that I have done an action. What is shown
       | here is the exact opposite of what I want in a GUI.
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | ah yes of course
       | 
       | - a shift happens when someone says it'll happen
       | 
       | AND
       | 
       | - big businesses have such a love for color and dimension and
       | have not been dulling everything down except for your
       | personalized feed for years now
       | 
       | /s
        
       | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
       | I mean this is interesting in ways, but I don't really care which
       | particular form of soullessness is used to advertise products I
       | wish I didn't have to use. It's a marketing movement more than an
       | artistic movement.
        
       | shortrounddev2 wrote:
       | The UI PAST was colorful and dimensional
        
       | pie_flavor wrote:
       | The first time I visited https://svelte.dev , the non-flat-vector
       | banner instantly won me. It just stands out from the world around
       | it. I just sort of assumed the engineering was superior to the
       | competition if they were going to lead with crimped metal (and
       | was right).
       | 
       | Flat design has always struck me as an extremist response to an
       | issue. Windows Vista required everyone to be on the same page
       | design-language wise in order to look good, but can the same be
       | said of Windows XP? You can make just a few parts of your app
       | drop-shadowed, you can add some slight reflection gradients while
       | keeping the whole thing matte, you do not need to get rid of all
       | visual depth just to avoid the feeling of zeerust.
        
       | robertoandred wrote:
       | Why are people still making 2MB animated gifs...
        
       | ferguess_k wrote:
       | Can we just have UI that is intuitive? Like, a button looks like
       | a button, sort of.
        
       | thepryz wrote:
       | What I find interesting is the author neglects to mention that
       | Jony Ive was responsible for both introducing the flat design in
       | iOS 7 they seem to lament and the AirBnB redesign they're
       | praising as a positive paradigm shift.
       | 
       | In my opinion, a lot recent UI/UX and visual design has become
       | less about seeking to understand and improve the way we interact
       | with machines and more about promoting a digital form of fast
       | fashion full of trends that everyone is expected to follow -
       | change for the sake of change. This post only provides more
       | support for that.
        
         | dogleash wrote:
         | >a lot recent UI/UX and visual design has become less about
         | seeking to understand and improve the way we interact with
         | machines and more about creating a digital form of fast fashion
         | full of trends that everyone is expected to follow - change for
         | the sake of change
         | 
         | In undergrad I took a course in Human Computer Interaction. It
         | was a bunch of glorious retro materials from all the actual
         | hard research done in the 20th century. After graduating and
         | entering industry the most effort I've ever seen
         | "professionals" put into HCI (and not just graphic design) is
         | to recognize some interaction might be confusing and just go
         | copy whatever apple does.
        
           | thepryz wrote:
           | My experience mirrors yours, and to make matters worse, even
           | Apple has forgotten their roots. The changes Apple has made
           | to Mac OS and their apps have consistently been for the worse
           | and I no longer consider Apple to be the pillar of good
           | design that they once were.
        
         | constantcrying wrote:
         | Exactly. Even much of the discussion here misses the point.
         | Whether design is flat or has depth is totally irrelevant, when
         | it isn't first and foremost focused on enabling humans to
         | interact with computers.
         | 
         | The debate about aesthetics just hides the ever declining
         | usability of interfaces. Constantly redesigning _everything_ so
         | that it fits some global aesthetic mould is destructive to
         | usability.
        
       | gadders wrote:
       | This is all just fashion, right? None of this makes the apps
       | easier to use.
       | 
       | I get that EG you might find it hard to sell a green-screen app
       | on an iPhone, but I don't see this diamorphic stuff adding much
       | value.
        
       | marcellus23 wrote:
       | > Those aren't my words. They're Brian Chesky's, CEO of Airbnb,
       | after what can only be described as a landmark redesign of the
       | platform. A redesign full of whimsical, animated, 3D icons and
       | warm, tactile surfaces.
       | 
       | I just opened the app and, aside from the animated tab icons
       | shown in the article (which are super laggy on my device), the
       | app looks exactly the same as always. How in the world is this a
       | "landmark" redesign?
        
       | mNovak wrote:
       | Lots of people talking about how this looks like 2000's clipart,
       | (and I'm not here to disagree) but seems like no one is talking
       | about how these appear to be full 3D models that can be
       | manipulated. AirBnb is actually being fairly subtle (small
       | spinning animation on load) considering how over the top that
       | could get, quickly. People have been doing small versions of this
       | with 3D css transforms, but this is a step further.
       | 
       | Inevitably these things are fashion, and big companies want to
       | have just slightly unique experiences. Usually that means doing
       | something hard that the average site will struggle to replicate
       | for a while, be that squishy UX animations, elegant minimalism,
       | now 3D.
        
       | samgranieri wrote:
       | I actually liked the skeuomorphic UI that Apple had. I miss the
       | aqua interface. Buttons as buttons and not text. And also, god
       | help me, brushed metal.
        
       | HellDunkel wrote:
       | Firstly- the airbnb redesign is still flat and minimal. Only the
       | icon bar is different- but not in a good way. The design is too
       | heavy, unclear and does a bad job adding to the rest. Of course
       | the ceo is trying to paint the redesign in the best light
       | possible but there is little reason for praise here.
        
       | whytaka wrote:
       | "The best design is design that gets out of the way" as a maxim
       | will probably hold.
       | 
       | Users may state a preference for "delight" and claim to be
       | delighted by maximally rich graphics but I doubt it'll move the
       | needle as a business priority.
       | 
       | As more AI slop pollute our digital consumption streams, my bet
       | is that these attempts at simulacrum will quickly turn garish.
        
       | evolve2k wrote:
       | I saw AirBNB's current ad that's all AI "aesthetic" and I
       | figuratively puked in my mouth. We've reached corporate AI slops
       | bleeds into design systems.
       | 
       | Hard no from me.
        
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