[HN Gopher] Why top posting has won (2018)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Why top posting has won (2018)
        
       Author : ColinWright
       Score  : 59 points
       Date   : 2025-05-25 15:46 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.solipsys.co.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.solipsys.co.uk)
        
       | throwanem wrote:
       | Imagine mistaking courtesy for procrastination. But to see this
       | writer focus obsessively on the inessential is hardly novel. What
       | in any case may one expect of someone who doesn't even bother
       | introducing his topic until two-thirds of the way through the
       | piece? Even in my forties I barely remember there was ever an
       | argument about this. Are there still enough crusties left alive
       | who care to sustain the discussion?
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | It's just the default behavior when clicking the reply button.
       | The reason why people don't top post on Discord or any other
       | messaging software is because it doesn't do it by default.
        
         | card_zero wrote:
         | It wasn't always. I was raised to reply at the bottom, in
         | Eudora. Then Outlook changed everybody to replying at the top
         | in order to be obnoxiously modern or something, in the late 90s
         | I think.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | The reason why people don't top post on Discord is the same
         | reason our terminal apps scroll older lines upward. That's the
         | convention for active scrolling text.
         | 
         | E-mail readers have people switching from document to document
         | and starting anew with each. When viewing documents we start at
         | the top, and the reply is the most prescient thing to see.
        
       | richard_mcp wrote:
       | I find it to be the exact opposite. Replying in-line is great
       | when it's a short email between a two people. But if the email is
       | to a wide audience, has multiple back and forths, or new people
       | get CC-ed later, in-line posting is much more difficult to
       | follow. It takes so much effort to read the email to figure out
       | who said what while also keeping state of all the different
       | threads.
       | 
       | Top posting takes more effort to do well, but makes it much
       | easier to follow an email chain.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | The point of inline replies is to quote just enough to
         | establish the context of the reply, and to enable replying to
         | multiple separate points without having to separately establish
         | each point as context. Case in point:
         | 
         | > It takes so much effort to read the email to figure out who
         | said what
         | 
         | Email clients used to color each quoting level, and mails
         | started with something like:                   John Doe wrote
         | on $date:         > Jane Smith wrote on $date:         > > Joe
         | Shmoe wrote on $date:                  > > > what they wrote
         | > > what they wrote         > what they wrote
         | 
         | and you knew that Jane was green and Joe was cyan. The
         | respective points were also closer together, so you had to
         | scroll less than you have nowadays.
         | 
         | > while also keeping state of all the different threads.
         | 
         | That's why we had threaded views that showed messages in a
         | tree, and showed when the subject (line) changed. People were
         | encouraged to edit the subject line to reflect topic drift, so
         | that you had a good overview when looking at the thread
         | visualization, which would omit repetitions of the same subject
         | text and only show where it changed.
         | 
         | Example (threaded view at top, colored quotes at bottom):
         | https://robot.unipv.it/clipedia/images/mutt-threads.png
        
       | linker3000 wrote:
       | I didn't know there was a competition.
        
         | junon wrote:
         | It's been one of those "tabs vs spaces"-like holy wars for a
         | while.
        
           | sitkack wrote:
           | (soft) No, no. Tabs vs spaces is more of a butter side
           | up/down thing.
           | 
           | Top Posting is how you assert dominance and gaslight an
           | entire thread while ignoring a nuanced point of view. That
           | complexity is not present in tabs vs spaces.
        
         | jghn wrote:
         | This was a huge debate on USENET in particular, as well as in
         | the email world until Outlook effectively made top posting the
         | standard.
         | 
         | RFC 1855 [1] makes it clear that the correct way is to quote
         | relevant text and then reply.
         | 
         | [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1855
        
           | richardwhiuk wrote:
           | RFCs aren't really a suitable document for agreeing this sort
           | of communication conventions.
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | Consider yourself lucky. I've always adapted to the prevailing
         | format of each mailing list, but the people who try to create a
         | holy war out of different styles have always been insufferable.
         | 
         | In a normal office environment e-mail moves much faster, people
         | open threads with the context already in mind, and expect to
         | see the relevant new info at the top. Bottom posting would
         | either make everyone sigh heavily when they see an e-mail from
         | _that one person_ or would earn someone a quick coaching
         | session to adopt the prevailing style of the office
         | environment.
         | 
         | But if you go on to a mailing list that wants bottom posting,
         | that's what you do. It's a courtesy.
        
       | almosthere wrote:
       | Email was invented wrong, and there should not be top or bottom
       | posting, but whatever. Instead the inventor should have made it
       | so the previous content should have been in a special segment,
       | and then the software could handle it from there.
        
         | arp242 wrote:
         | Okay!
         | 
         | > the inventor
         | 
         | Aside: email didn't really have "an inventor". Shiva Ayyadurai
         | does not count.
         | 
         | > should have made it so the previous content should have been
         | in a special segment
         | 
         | So how would you do this then, where you reply to a specific
         | part?
        
           | xp84 wrote:
           | > how would you do this then, where you reply to a specific
           | part?
           | 
           | When specific context is needed, besides "the whole message"
           | just do exactly as you and I are both doing right now. But in
           | general, quoting the whole message is pointless unless you're
           | adding a new recipient on, since we all have the threads in
           | our email clients anyway. Whenever I can, I nuke the entire
           | quoted part out of my replies.
        
       | AdamH12113 wrote:
       | Needs a (2018) added to the title -- the list of recent posts[1]
       | gives the publication date as 2018-06-13.
       | 
       | Incidentally: Bloggers, _please_ put dates in your actual blog
       | post templates. The date is an important part of the context of
       | any article.
       | 
       | [EDIT: The author of the article has already added the date to
       | their template. Thanks!]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/ColinsBlog.html
        
         | 38 wrote:
         | 100%. It's the most important piece of information. How anyone
         | can forget to include it floors me
        
         | altairprime wrote:
         | You can email the mods to have them add that 2018 marking, so
         | that it doesn't depend on them random-chance seeing your
         | comment; the footer contact link has the address.
        
         | kens wrote:
         | I took the date out of my blog posts because I find the HN tic
         | of putting the date in the title a little too precious.
         | Obviously the date is important for some articles: the
         | relevance of "Scientists make breakthrough in X" depends on the
         | date. Otherwise it's just pointless enforcement of local
         | custom, which by the way isn't in the submission guidelines.
        
           | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
           | I agree, all the hall monitoring in the comments about titles
           | is cringe.
        
           | harshitaneja wrote:
           | Everyone should obviously be able to make decisions for their
           | own content on their own websites/blog and more power to you
           | for exercising your agency and choice here. I browsed through
           | your blog and with your content on vintage computing and
           | history, I can consume the content without having to care
           | about a date.
           | 
           | However, I don't find that to be the case for most of the
           | written content I consume and knowing where some content was
           | created temporally is important context more often than
           | not(at least in my experience). Now, I can't nor would I want
           | to dictate what others do on their own hosted content(where
           | they generously share their hard meticulous work).
           | 
           | Comments on HN and other places lamenting lack of dates
           | however should be fair game to desire such additional
           | context. But then again, you commenting back is just
           | participating in the same dialogue so I guess my entire
           | message has been just meandering.
        
           | AdamH12113 wrote:
           | I went looking for the date of this post because I honestly
           | thought it was from the 1990s, when top-posting actually won.
           | 
           | The date is more important than you're giving it credit for.
           | Every creative work has a context and an implicit perspective
           | that comes from that context. This is especially true for
           | nonfiction articles, where the date tells you things like:
           | 
           | * Whether the author is reacting to something that just
           | happened or whether they have the benefit of historical
           | hindsight.
           | 
           | * Where the article fits in the author's overall body of work
           | (including works they haven't written yet!).
           | 
           | * What, if any, recent events may have prompted the author to
           | write the article.
           | 
           | * The prevailing intellectual climate, which carries focuses
           | and blind spots that may be very different from what we have
           | now.
           | 
           | * Whether the article is about something immediately useful
           | or whether it's more likely to be of historical interest.
           | 
           | You can already tell, for instance, that "Thoughts on
           | Software Development (1998)" is going to be talking about
           | very different things than "Thoughts on Software Development
           | (2012)" or "Thoughts on Software Development (2025)". An
           | article like "Better C Programming (2020)" probably contains
           | some useful advice; whereas "Better C Programming (1991)"
           | should be taken with a large grain of salt.
           | 
           | Instead of making readers ask questions like "Why is the
           | person talking about operating system monopolies while saying
           | nothing about LLM model ownership?", it's easier and more
           | helpful to just put the date at the top.
        
           | akkartik wrote:
           | I don't care about dates on titles in HN, but strongly care
           | about dates _somewhere_ on any post online. Some indication
           | of the time (range) when it was published. Even if the author
           | doesn't consider it important it helps future readers
           | (including the author! kinda like code comments!) answer all
           | sorts of unanticipated questions about the post down the
           | road. And it's easy to do. I do it all the time by reflex in
           | my private longhand notebooks. So if you also consider this
           | precious, I don't understand what you mean by "precious" and
           | I have trouble translating it to some concrete ill-
           | consequence that would preclude doing this very easy thing
           | that might help one's readers.
        
         | gumbojuice wrote:
         | I feel like blog posts auto -adjust posts to some recent date
         | for seo optimization, so most dates on blog posts are useless.
        
           | bravoetch wrote:
           | And the more date-specific 'best thing 2025' articles also
           | update titles to match current year. Email is already a
           | wasteland of notifications and things I haven't unsubscribed
           | to after buying something. Web is now a wasteland of SEO
           | optimized content. I'm bummed it's gone this way. Looking
           | forward to AI becoming monetized in a similar way by
           | inserting product placement etc.
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | I once worked at a place where the marketing team
           | _explicitly_ removed dates from corporate blog posts for SEO
           | purposes.
           | 
           | The idea was that some content is, or benefits from being
           | perceived as, "evergreen". Always relevant.
           | 
           | Maybe -- but it's still deceptive, I think.
           | 
           | On the other hand, even here on HN we see people talking
           | about "unmaintained" GitHub repos where the last commit was
           | more than a few months ago. So, recency-bias is a real thing,
           | and marketers certainly don't want to be penalized for
           | honesty. :)
           | 
           | This was a while ago. Nowadays, the obvious opposite extreme
           | is common. Blogspam that is "updated" with a current date,
           | but no changes to content.
        
       | 38 wrote:
       | Jesus what a terrible blog. The post is not dated at all, which
       | in my opinion is the single most important piece of information.
       | Also no mobile layout, so I have to manually scroll like a
       | typewriter to read each line. What decade are we in?
        
         | jjcob wrote:
         | That article would be just as relevant if it was posted in
         | 1995, 2005, 2015, or 2025. This is a never ending debate and I
         | don't see how adding a date would make it better.
        
           | 38 wrote:
           | I agree of course, it will be relevant forever, no point in
           | adding a date
        
       | akkartik wrote:
       | Top posting vs replying inline feels like an incomplete
       | dichotomy. I often encounter threads on mailing lists where
       | people are replying inline but not trimming the part they're not
       | replying to. That makes it hard to follow. Or they reply inline
       | and trim well but it's still hard to follow because you need more
       | context than just the part they're replying to.
       | 
       | So the key is "the thread needs to be distilled" as OP puts it.
       | And often that's more work than just finding the right sentence
       | to quote.
       | 
       | My approach these days in my email is:
       | 
       | 99% of the time I quote nothing and delete everything my client
       | puts into the compose window, relying on the default thread-view
       | in most email clients to supply the context for my readers.
       | 
       | 1% of the time I need to quote, and I quote liberally, treating
       | words as a wiki, and editing/sculpting the text in '> ' just as
       | much as my own reply below it.
        
         | addaon wrote:
         | I agree.
         | 
         | > Top posting vs replying inline feels like an incomplete
         | dichotomy.
         | 
         | There are just so many options.
        
         | benoliver999 wrote:
         | Yeah this is my strategy. The top/bottom post brigade are both
         | happy and email clients seem to handle it well.
         | 
         | It's kind of alarming to me that the default in say gmail is to
         | constantly re-send the original message chain back and forth. I
         | guess it then gives the whole chain to newcomers to the thread?
        
       | aniou wrote:
       | It won because it was in place (Outlook) and almost nobody cares.
       | 
       | Official version is: "because there is a whole history of
       | correspondence and it is convenient to forward it to new
       | participants".
       | 
       | In reality? It doesn't matter. Almost no-one reads, neither top-
       | or bottom-posted mails. But there is a drawback in top-posting
       | and I mean a "my comments inside original post, in
       | color/bold/with indent/randomly inserted between two phrases".
       | There is no standard of citing in top-posting - thus sometimes
       | original mail gone. Edited, re-edited and commented in various,
       | inconsistent and often unreadable ways.
        
       | mgaunard wrote:
       | Many people moved from Outlook to GMail.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, GMail doesn't do it any better.
        
         | fmbb wrote:
         | Gmail makes it easier for top posters because it shows you the
         | email threads.
         | 
         | Outlook did not use to make it easy to follow threads at all.
        
           | leephillips wrote:
           | Except that Gmail fails to display threads correctly, as
           | shown in detail here:
           | 
           | https://lwn.net/Articles/837960/
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | If the mail reader does a good job organizing the thread, you
           | don't need to quote the original at all in many cases,
           | because the recipient can easily see the message that's being
           | replied to.
           | 
           | I wonder what the carbon footprint is for poorly threaded
           | email clients that encourage including the entire thread in
           | every reply.
        
       | arp242 wrote:
       | I think this hugely overthinks things and it's actually a lot
       | simpler: Outlook and other Microsoft tools didn't support bottom-
       | posting. It was only kind-of possible if you changed several
       | settings and even then you had to manually change stuff in every
       | reply. That by far the most important reason top-posting "won".
       | 
       | I use past tense because I haven't used any of this Microsoft
       | stuff for over 10 years, but I assume this is still the case.
       | 
       | This sort of moves the question to "why did Outlook only support
       | top-posting?" I don't have a clear answer to that, but if I look
       | at the general state of Microsoft and email at the time then it's
       | probably a combination of the Not-Invented-Here (and maybe some
       | "EEE") attitude at Microsoft at the time combined with a general
       | apathy and ignorance towards email.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | Yes exactly. The first text-based email clients I used that
         | quoted the original message in a reply[1] defaulted to bottom
         | posting. They'd include the message with the ">" prefix on each
         | line, and your cursor would be positioned at the bottom of
         | that. So at that time most people did inline or bottom replies.
         | 
         | Microsoft Email/Exchange/Outlook as best I can remember have
         | always defaulted to quoting the message and leaving the cursor
         | at the top. And they didn't prefix the quoted text in any way,
         | so to do inline replies you'd have to make it clear which text
         | was quoted and which text was new. People would use colors or
         | different fonts when "rich" text became supported but it was
         | more work and most people just took the easy path.
         | 
         | [1] Very early on, MUAs did not (at least by default) quote the
         | original message. This was because most people were using
         | teletypes or slow (300 baud) terminals and possibly a line-
         | oriented editor such as 'ed' so quoting the original message
         | could add significant extra time needed to compose a reply.
         | Also, with a mail client that does proper threading, you can
         | see which message is being replied to and you don't really need
         | to include that again in the reply.
        
         | rixed wrote:
         | There is no such thing as "supporting [top/bottom] posting".
         | You have a text editor and a cursor, the real alternative is
         | not "top" vs "bottom" but "I care about the context of the
         | discussion" vs "I don't care". In the first case, you _edit_
         | the quoted text and then answer inline, and in the second you
         | just type your one line answer and hit  "send".
         | 
         | Top posting did not win anything. Lazyness did.
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | This is incorrect. The initial cursor position and automatic
           | email signature being at the top rather than at the bottom
           | already makes a huge difference. Add to that the absence of
           | tools to easily insert inline replies and cut down or
           | reformat quoted parts, plus the absence of navigational
           | behavior when reading mail that would jump to the first non-
           | quoted part first, which earlier email clients used to have.
        
             | arp242 wrote:
             | Yes, when I had to use Outlook because of $dayjob I did
             | bottom-post and it was absolutely an uphill battle. In the
             | end I resorted to some custom VBScript code I wrote myself
             | to make some aspects easier.
             | 
             | In hindsight, all of that was a mistake because all my
             | coworkers top-posted. Top-posting might be bad (IMHO), but
             | a mixture of bottom and top is even worse.
             | 
             | I now just top-post. I'm still not a fan but it is what it
             | is.
        
             | rixed wrote:
             | Ah, let's not get started about "Why email signatures has
             | won" :)
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | Not sure what you mean, email signatures were standard
               | well before Outlook. What changed is that the convention
               | of beginning them with a line consisting of "-- " wasn't
               | adopted by Outlook & friends, so automatic
               | detection/hiding/non-quoting suffers.
        
           | arp242 wrote:
           | > Top posting did not win anything. Lazyness did.
           | 
           | In addition to what the sibling comment already points out,
           | most people don't even _know_ what  "top posting" or "bottom
           | posting" is because they just do what the email client does
           | by default (which in Outlook's case: strongly favours top
           | posting).
           | 
           | The only "lazy" thing here is this kind of smug judgemental
           | attitude instead of looking for the actual reasons.
        
           | champtar wrote:
           | If you are using Microsoft Outlook mobile app or the webmail,
           | inline or bottom posting experience is garbage, it doesn't
           | quote/format the previous email, it just slaps it at the
           | bottom. If you want to respond inline you better put some
           | color else it's unreadable.
        
         | pwg wrote:
         | > I assume this is still the case.
         | 
         | It is, $job's outlook install still "top posts" by default,
         | just like always.
        
         | beej71 wrote:
         | I switched back to mutt after years of TB and, man, is it sooo
         | easy to quote inline. I'd missed it. I'm sure a bunch of
         | recipients are wondering wtf I'm doing. :)
        
         | stock_toaster wrote:
         | I'd say Gmail defaulting[1] to top posting, when it was
         | publicly released in 2004, was definitely the nail in the
         | coffin.
         | 
         | [1]: Likely done for reasons of Outlook
         | compatibility/familiarity.
        
       | csallen wrote:
       | I've always been fascinated by aphorisms, maxims, proverbs, and
       | those sorts of things. What is it that makes them so enduring, so
       | satisfying, and so seemingly true? Why are we attracted to this
       | form of expression moreso than longer and better-argued prose? Do
       | things merely seem more true simply because they are wittily
       | expressed, and if so, is that a good thing? (PG's recent essay
       | had interesting things to say about this.)
       | 
       | Some interesting aphorisms from the master La Rochefoucauld:
       | 
       | - "In the misfortune of even our best friends, there is something
       | that does not displease us."
       | 
       | - "Old men delight in giving good advice as a consolation for the
       | fact that they can no longer set bad examples"
       | 
       | - "No persons are more frequently wrong than those who will not
       | admit they are wrong."
       | 
       | - "We promise according to our hopes and perform according to our
       | fears."
       | 
       | - "A refusal of praise is a desire to be praised twice."
       | 
       | - "We only confess our little faults to persuade people that we
       | have no big ones."
       | 
       | - "Almost all our faults are more pardonable than the methods we
       | resort to to hide them."
       | 
       | My theory is that a good aphorism merely gives us "2+2", which
       | prompts us to test it and conclude "4". This is much more
       | persuasive than spoon-feeding us "2+2=4" in the first place,
       | because we naturally trust our own conclusions more than the
       | conclusions of others.
        
         | CooCooCaCha wrote:
         | Your last paragraph fascinates me because I think it's true.
         | 
         | There's something about being told things directly that pushes
         | people away, but a clever aphorism disarms us because it makes
         | us feel smart for "getting it".
         | 
         | There's something inside us that prefers indirect
         | communication.
        
           | erikerikson wrote:
           | > There's something inside us that prefers indirect
           | communication.
           | 
           | This may come from culture or neurodiversity. Some of us
           | greatly prefer explicit communication.
        
             | CooCooCaCha wrote:
             | Sorry I forgot the standard caveats that generalizations
             | don't apply to everyone.
        
         | kjkjadksj wrote:
         | Language is fundamentally an abstraction of some more complex
         | thought. To then repeat the exercise, to take complex language
         | and distill it again to a simple abstraction in a few words, is
         | probably deeply satisfying to our monkey brain.
        
       | malwarebytess wrote:
       | The section on proverbs is missing the point, despite
       | overthinking it.
       | 
       | You're not meant to take a proverb and apply it literally in all
       | cases. It's a piece of wisdom you pull out when you deem it
       | appropriate. The analysis and individual judgement of the human
       | being is implied.
       | 
       | If you included more it wouldn't be a proverb.
        
       | LastTrain wrote:
       | I feel like most of the authors annoyances and misunderstandings
       | could be fixed with a bit of advice from my dad- "use your
       | goddamn head". Yes, a stitch in time doesn't save nine each and
       | every time.
        
       | jagraff wrote:
       | I think there is perhaps a different conclusion that I come to -
       | email is not the right tool for long discussions with multiple
       | points of disagreement, because it is, generally, a linear
       | medium, which makes it difficult to maintain different threads
       | without careful formatting by every author in the email chain.
       | 
       | I am not sure if there exists a good tool for threaded
       | discussions with multiple different focus areas - something like
       | git but for conversations?
        
         | ColinWright wrote:
         | I've written one, and people who use it, love it. People who
         | look at it from the outside, hate it, hate on it, say hateful
         | things about it, and generally make it clear that it should be
         | set fire to, then buried.
         | 
         | But I and colleagues use it regularly, and it absolutely hits
         | the spot for non-linear discussions that are intended to find
         | conclusions.
        
         | mr_toad wrote:
         | > email is not the right tool for long discussions with
         | multiple points of disagreement
         | 
         | It's still better than a teams call.
        
           | bornfreddy wrote:
           | Almost anything is better than any Teams thing.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Why Top Posting Has Won (2018)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22801233 - April 2020 (140
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Why Top Posting Has Won_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17302808 - June 2018 (3
       | comments)
        
       | trueismywork wrote:
       | The biggest advantage of top posting is that you can involve new
       | people in middle of a thread and they have all the context
       | without working harder.
        
       | dasil003 wrote:
       | I don't disagree that top posting is often the result of
       | laziness, but I think the logical thread of the articles starts
       | to break down at this point:
       | 
       | > _But when the thread is long, and when your reply is to a point
       | deeper inside, suddenly the receiver has to do a lot of work.
       | You, the sender, have saved yourself time, but the receiver has
       | to do more work than you have saved. Potentially a lot more
       | work._
       | 
       | The problem is that readers are also lazy, and increasingly
       | people don't have time to follow long threads at all. With inline
       | responses, it's far too easy for threads to branch off in a
       | million directions. Once that happens you'll often lose the
       | forest for the trees. It's reasonable for usenet-style internet
       | discussions where participation is voluntary and asynchronous by
       | definition, but in work collaboration it's a strong anti-pattern.
       | In a situation where there is a goal and desired outcome, top-
       | posting is a reasonable way to keep a thread linear and outcome-
       | focused. It can still break down for complex or controversial
       | issues, but in that case email is the wrong medium, instead jump
       | on a call or write a proposal.
        
       | thom wrote:
       | If you're feeling particularly nostalgic, you can just have an
       | LLM take all your incoming email and tell it to rewrite it so
       | it's no longer top-posted.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | One of the many downsides of "top posting" that I didn't see
       | mentioned is when a given email including quotes is taken as the
       | history of the email thread up to that point, but it's missing
       | emails (because of concurrency with possibly multiple replies
       | going on at once, and because of cherry-picking or randomly-
       | picking which subtree to respond to).
       | 
       | Even in a back-and-forth between 2 people, there are some people
       | who'll reply a second time to the same email, not to replace
       | their earlier response, but to add more information.
       | 
       | (Aside: Also, it seems to be rare for people forwarded a top-
       | posted thread context to actually read it, unless they're looking
       | to assign blame.)
       | 
       | In every company, I end up having to reconstruct context for
       | someone, or do archaeology on some interaction, and the top-
       | quoting both helps and hurts.
       | 
       | Downsides of lazy top-posting for these purposes include having
       | to break out all those messages, and fill in the gaps from maybe
       | multiple copies at different points.
       | 
       | Upsides include when, say, a single email is the only record, and
       | the fact that a bunch of people top-posted means you have more
       | raw information, in the quotes, than if that single email was in
       | a history of people doing proper Netiquette with minimal quoting
       | of the parts they were responding to.
       | 
       | There are a whole bunch of reasons and implications for how
       | things are done in corporate practice, and IME most of them come
       | down to one of: poor tools, poor use of the tools (including by
       | "digital natives"), and corporate misalignment + politics.
        
         | thechao wrote:
         | One thing I like about Slack-like message systems is that they
         | naturally bottom post. However, they tend to go "asynchronous",
         | which makes conversiarcheology nearly impossible. I don't
         | understand why I can't click the message I want to reply to and
         | have my response inserted at that point. (With an obvious: it's
         | been too long to do that limiter.) The messages can stay
         | inline, but having the user mark the dependency (even
         | retroactively) could lead to some real tooling & conversation
         | recovery improvements. I dunno; Slack has some sort of Canvas
         | integration which I need like a new hole on my head.
        
           | richardwhiuk wrote:
           | People already struggle to use threads in Slack correctly,
           | adding arbitrary nesting of messages doesn't feel like it'd
           | be an improvement.
        
             | thechao wrote:
             | Not nesting: the ability (for a little while) to tell slack
             | to locally reorder the conversation. This tends to happen
             | with three users all trying to talk to each other: the
             | communication is still dual, so you end up with "yeahs" and
             | crud like that "out of place". The emoji solve this to a
             | large extent; but, neither well nor articulately.
        
       | 3036e4 wrote:
       | I surrendered a long time ago and started top-posting like normal
       | people do, but a few times I wrote to someone and they replied
       | the old way with just quotes and bottom-posting, and then I
       | immediately revert to that mode myself.
       | 
       | I wish there was some good way to silently communicate that
       | preference to likeminded. Then I would know right away when to
       | switch to proper netiquette without the other person having to go
       | first. And how often was I in an email exchange with someone else
       | that also prefer to not top-post, but both did that anyway since
       | that is just the expectation now?
        
       | tbrownaw wrote:
       | <span style="color: darkred; font-weight: bold">comments added
       | below</span>
        
       | ccppurcell wrote:
       | I have similar feelings about voice messages over chat apps. I
       | pretty nearly always read it as "my time is more valuable than
       | yours" especially if it's long. Listening on 2x speed is not as
       | good as skim reading. It should go without saying that I make an
       | exception for people with disabilities.
        
       | satvikpendem wrote:
       | If you use a competent email software like Gmail, this is a non-
       | issue.
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | I remember this amusing argument against top posting that I saw
       | on Usenet at least 20 years ago:                 A: Because it
       | messes up the order in which people normally read text.       Q:
       | Why is top-posting such a bad thing?       A: Top-posting.
       | Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-05-25 23:01 UTC)