[HN Gopher] Hydra: Vehicles on the island - 'After the works the...
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Hydra: Vehicles on the island - 'After the works they abandon them
here'
Author : gnabgib
Score : 37 points
Date : 2025-05-22 23:05 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (en.protothema.gr)
(TXT) w3m dump (en.protothema.gr)
| thazework wrote:
| Hydra is fairly unique in that bikes, not just motorized
| vehicles, are prohibited on the island.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Only donkeys, there are a few vehicles tho the garbage
| collection "truck" being one of them.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I wonder what their reasoning is behind banning non-powered
| bikes? It's got very steep hills, so there's a good chance that
| bicycles wouldn't be very practical, but seems strange to ban
| them.
| detourdog wrote:
| Could be a speed limit thing.
| ndsipa_pomu wrote:
| I doubt that they have speed limits if they don't allow
| motorised vehicles.
| detourdog wrote:
| I agree, If everyone is on foot there is no need for
| regulating the speed.
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Narrow streets and very steep slopes there is absolutely no
| way to safely cycle anywhere there.
| polonbike wrote:
| Bikes, even muscular ones, can be annoying to pedestrians on
| thin hiking paths. My take is that even if they allow one/a
| few/a capped number, then it's out of the bottle, and people
| will try to game the system one way or another
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| What is a muscular bike?
| RainyDayTmrw wrote:
| Presumably the poster wanted to differentiate e-bikes
| (electrical motor assisted) with fully human powered
| (traditional) bikes.
| dylan604 wrote:
| The type powered by meat motors
| loire280 wrote:
| I've started calling them "acoustic" bikes, like non-
| electric guitars. Not technically accurate, but folks
| almost always get it and smile.
| jpalawaga wrote:
| Analog bikes
| alexey-salmin wrote:
| If Ford Mustang was a bike it would be a Richi Hulk
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/s/qBcUDZ7rqd
| lostlogin wrote:
| I was going to point out how bad the last few decades of
| mustang have looked.
|
| Then I saw your link. Yes. You've picked the right
| comparison.
| dmurray wrote:
| Interesting that they're being described as "abandoned" there. I
| thought they might be getting sold to locals who have plausible
| deniability that they're using them for construction work.
|
| Why abandon a working vehicle? Surely the construction projects
| on Hydra aren't exclusively worked by end-of-life vehicles. And
| it's only about 3km from mainland Greece so it can't be
| prohibitively expensive to ship them back (even if they are end
| of life, they should have much more scrappage value than the
| shipping cost).
| dylan604 wrote:
| It could be a book keeping thing. Sometimes, it works out
| better by the pencil pushers if something is written off as a
| loss. Consider the expense of having to send a barge/ship to
| the island to transport it back from the island to somewhere
| else. Then they could attempt to sell it. Would that sale be
| profitable?
| pfdietz wrote:
| Even if that were the case, wouldn't whoever ended up owning
| it make a profit by sending it back for scrapping/parting
| out?
| dylan604 wrote:
| you have to do the math on shipping costs vs how much can
| be made. i'd venture its not profitable in a reasonable
| amount of time. you then have to have someone skilled to
| part it out. store the pieces. line up buyers. all of that
| comes at an expense.
| pfdietz wrote:
| So, how much does shipping a ton 3 miles by water cost?
| The scrap value of a vehicle is maybe $200/ton (more if
| valuable parts can be salvaged.)
|
| Shipping by truck in the US costs somewhere around
| $0.10/ton-mile.
| williamdclt wrote:
| In most ports that would be worth it as there's already
| established commerce routes that can transport vehicles.
| But there's no vehicle-carrying ferry going to hydra. So
| you'd need to arrange one especially, which probably
| would cost a ton, certainly several thousands and I'd
| guess much more
| pfdietz wrote:
| Or, once sufficient junk has accumulated, a for-purpose
| boat could come over and transport the lot. Also, there
| must already be ways of getting garbage and construction
| debris out.
|
| I suspect the best approach would be a boat that would
| transport the stuff not three miles, but a longer
| distance to where scrap could be more easily handled.
| This would amortize loading/unloading costs over more
| miles. I would not be at all surprised if such
| centralized waste handling ports already existed; there
| are lots of islands there generating a constant stream of
| refuse.
| HarryHirsch wrote:
| They haven't done it yet, which would indicate that it's
| complicated, where is the nearest scrap dealer that would
| take the stuff? The Eastern Peloponnese is thinly
| populated, the nearest town is Nauplion with ~ 20 k
| inhabitants, else there is always Athens. Now you have an
| interagency coordination problem, Hydra town council would
| have to get together with its counterpart in Athens,
| acquire the title, collect them, charter a ferry and lowbed
| truck at the destination and assemble a crew get rid of the
| junk. Until sufficient tourists complain it's not going to
| happen.
| Hilift wrote:
| The sentence is unfinished. They are abandoned, and unlike
| nearly everywhere else, left and not collected. There's
| probably a daily ferry and/or barge designed in part for this.
| Some of the vehicles could be sold to at least 10 vendors that
| would happily collect them. There's only 2,000 people, so maybe
| a handful of municipal employees. And there's probably four
| hours of paperwork to dispose of a vehicle. They probably want
| the original businesses to appear and collect them and pay like
| 10 years of fines.
| throw902093290 wrote:
| There are many ferries to Hydra, but none take cars.
|
| My guess it is pain in arse to bring car in our out of hydra.
| Once someone pays arm and leg for transportation, they will
| keep car there forever. Even if its used for construction
| once a year.
|
| Hydra is normal town with normal needs. And local population
| of pensioners will not haul shopping, furniture, or building
| materials on their backs!
| analog31 wrote:
| Even on the mainland, vehicles and equipment are abandoned. At
| least in the US, if you drive through the countryside, every
| vehicle and truck that was ever used by someone is parked
| somewhere. If you go on a hike, and go through land that was
| once used for something, you'll find piles of old equipment,
| vehicles, materials, etc. It's not all that noticeable because
| there's usually much more land than the amount of stuff piling
| up. Even in my residential neighborhood, there's probably an
| inoperable car parked in a driveway every other block.
|
| I don't think that things are always a quantum transition from
| "in use" to "abandoned," but a gradual decline. Stuff is just
| parked temporarily in case it's needed in the near future, or
| with the hope of selling it, and then gradually decays to the
| point of being inoperable. An abandoned car or truck won't just
| start. If a machine like a bobcat or bulldozer needs to be
| moved, it may require a running engine and hydraulics. Someone
| has to know how to get it going. Paying someone to haul it away
| may be expensive. If it's owned by a business, the ownership
| may gradually become unknown, especially in an informal
| economy.
| bell-cot wrote:
| > "A paradise for walkers and nature lovers." That's how the
| Municipality describes Hydra on its website, promoting the
| island's uniqueness, where the movement of all wheeled vehicles
| is prohibited by law. However, laws are made to be broken--
| especially when there is no one responsible or interested in
| enforcing them. Thus, this otherwise beautiful island, rich in
| archaeological and natural treasures and boasting unique
| architecture, has become filled with cars, motorcycles, bicycles,
| and of course, scooters, which are trendier than walking.
|
| Sounds like the usual "humans want pretended virtues, and laws
| are for the little people" deal to me.
| xcskier56 wrote:
| One of my favorite things when I was here was seeing an Amazon
| Prime logo on the saddlebag of a donkey. That struck me as a very
| weird collision of old and new worlds
| tiahura wrote:
| Push them into the water?
| madaxe_again wrote:
| You jest, but this almost certainly already happens - but out
| of sight, out of mind.
| tiahura wrote:
| I'm not jesting. Lucky enough to have been years ago. It's
| fairly steep from center of island to coast with a 6+ ft drop
| to the water around much of it, so it wouldn't take much.
| potato3732842 wrote:
| I grew up on an island. If you see something that looks insane
| it's almost always an economic distortion as a result of the high
| cost of getting stuff in and our or an economic distortion as a
| result of government doing something absurd to protect the big
| local industry (tourism, retirement, etc).
|
| For the longest time they wouldn't let a scrap metal place exist.
| Then eventually someone just started running one accessory to
| another business via a loophole and all the metal trash that
| adorned the ditches in secluded areas just vanished and didn't
| get replaced.
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(page generated 2025-05-25 23:01 UTC)