[HN Gopher] Hydra: Vehicles on the island - 'After the works the...
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       Hydra: Vehicles on the island - 'After the works they abandon them
       here'
        
       Author : gnabgib
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2025-05-22 23:05 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.protothema.gr)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.protothema.gr)
        
       | thazework wrote:
       | Hydra is fairly unique in that bikes, not just motorized
       | vehicles, are prohibited on the island.
        
         | dogma1138 wrote:
         | Only donkeys, there are a few vehicles tho the garbage
         | collection "truck" being one of them.
        
         | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
         | I wonder what their reasoning is behind banning non-powered
         | bikes? It's got very steep hills, so there's a good chance that
         | bicycles wouldn't be very practical, but seems strange to ban
         | them.
        
           | detourdog wrote:
           | Could be a speed limit thing.
        
             | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
             | I doubt that they have speed limits if they don't allow
             | motorised vehicles.
        
               | detourdog wrote:
               | I agree, If everyone is on foot there is no need for
               | regulating the speed.
        
           | dogma1138 wrote:
           | Narrow streets and very steep slopes there is absolutely no
           | way to safely cycle anywhere there.
        
           | polonbike wrote:
           | Bikes, even muscular ones, can be annoying to pedestrians on
           | thin hiking paths. My take is that even if they allow one/a
           | few/a capped number, then it's out of the bottle, and people
           | will try to game the system one way or another
        
             | sidewndr46 wrote:
             | What is a muscular bike?
        
               | RainyDayTmrw wrote:
               | Presumably the poster wanted to differentiate e-bikes
               | (electrical motor assisted) with fully human powered
               | (traditional) bikes.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | The type powered by meat motors
        
               | loire280 wrote:
               | I've started calling them "acoustic" bikes, like non-
               | electric guitars. Not technically accurate, but folks
               | almost always get it and smile.
        
               | jpalawaga wrote:
               | Analog bikes
        
               | alexey-salmin wrote:
               | If Ford Mustang was a bike it would be a Richi Hulk
               | 
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/MTB/s/qBcUDZ7rqd
        
               | lostlogin wrote:
               | I was going to point out how bad the last few decades of
               | mustang have looked.
               | 
               | Then I saw your link. Yes. You've picked the right
               | comparison.
        
       | dmurray wrote:
       | Interesting that they're being described as "abandoned" there. I
       | thought they might be getting sold to locals who have plausible
       | deniability that they're using them for construction work.
       | 
       | Why abandon a working vehicle? Surely the construction projects
       | on Hydra aren't exclusively worked by end-of-life vehicles. And
       | it's only about 3km from mainland Greece so it can't be
       | prohibitively expensive to ship them back (even if they are end
       | of life, they should have much more scrappage value than the
       | shipping cost).
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | It could be a book keeping thing. Sometimes, it works out
         | better by the pencil pushers if something is written off as a
         | loss. Consider the expense of having to send a barge/ship to
         | the island to transport it back from the island to somewhere
         | else. Then they could attempt to sell it. Would that sale be
         | profitable?
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | Even if that were the case, wouldn't whoever ended up owning
           | it make a profit by sending it back for scrapping/parting
           | out?
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | you have to do the math on shipping costs vs how much can
             | be made. i'd venture its not profitable in a reasonable
             | amount of time. you then have to have someone skilled to
             | part it out. store the pieces. line up buyers. all of that
             | comes at an expense.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | So, how much does shipping a ton 3 miles by water cost?
               | The scrap value of a vehicle is maybe $200/ton (more if
               | valuable parts can be salvaged.)
               | 
               | Shipping by truck in the US costs somewhere around
               | $0.10/ton-mile.
        
               | williamdclt wrote:
               | In most ports that would be worth it as there's already
               | established commerce routes that can transport vehicles.
               | But there's no vehicle-carrying ferry going to hydra. So
               | you'd need to arrange one especially, which probably
               | would cost a ton, certainly several thousands and I'd
               | guess much more
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Or, once sufficient junk has accumulated, a for-purpose
               | boat could come over and transport the lot. Also, there
               | must already be ways of getting garbage and construction
               | debris out.
               | 
               | I suspect the best approach would be a boat that would
               | transport the stuff not three miles, but a longer
               | distance to where scrap could be more easily handled.
               | This would amortize loading/unloading costs over more
               | miles. I would not be at all surprised if such
               | centralized waste handling ports already existed; there
               | are lots of islands there generating a constant stream of
               | refuse.
        
             | HarryHirsch wrote:
             | They haven't done it yet, which would indicate that it's
             | complicated, where is the nearest scrap dealer that would
             | take the stuff? The Eastern Peloponnese is thinly
             | populated, the nearest town is Nauplion with ~ 20 k
             | inhabitants, else there is always Athens. Now you have an
             | interagency coordination problem, Hydra town council would
             | have to get together with its counterpart in Athens,
             | acquire the title, collect them, charter a ferry and lowbed
             | truck at the destination and assemble a crew get rid of the
             | junk. Until sufficient tourists complain it's not going to
             | happen.
        
         | Hilift wrote:
         | The sentence is unfinished. They are abandoned, and unlike
         | nearly everywhere else, left and not collected. There's
         | probably a daily ferry and/or barge designed in part for this.
         | Some of the vehicles could be sold to at least 10 vendors that
         | would happily collect them. There's only 2,000 people, so maybe
         | a handful of municipal employees. And there's probably four
         | hours of paperwork to dispose of a vehicle. They probably want
         | the original businesses to appear and collect them and pay like
         | 10 years of fines.
        
           | throw902093290 wrote:
           | There are many ferries to Hydra, but none take cars.
           | 
           | My guess it is pain in arse to bring car in our out of hydra.
           | Once someone pays arm and leg for transportation, they will
           | keep car there forever. Even if its used for construction
           | once a year.
           | 
           | Hydra is normal town with normal needs. And local population
           | of pensioners will not haul shopping, furniture, or building
           | materials on their backs!
        
         | analog31 wrote:
         | Even on the mainland, vehicles and equipment are abandoned. At
         | least in the US, if you drive through the countryside, every
         | vehicle and truck that was ever used by someone is parked
         | somewhere. If you go on a hike, and go through land that was
         | once used for something, you'll find piles of old equipment,
         | vehicles, materials, etc. It's not all that noticeable because
         | there's usually much more land than the amount of stuff piling
         | up. Even in my residential neighborhood, there's probably an
         | inoperable car parked in a driveway every other block.
         | 
         | I don't think that things are always a quantum transition from
         | "in use" to "abandoned," but a gradual decline. Stuff is just
         | parked temporarily in case it's needed in the near future, or
         | with the hope of selling it, and then gradually decays to the
         | point of being inoperable. An abandoned car or truck won't just
         | start. If a machine like a bobcat or bulldozer needs to be
         | moved, it may require a running engine and hydraulics. Someone
         | has to know how to get it going. Paying someone to haul it away
         | may be expensive. If it's owned by a business, the ownership
         | may gradually become unknown, especially in an informal
         | economy.
        
       | bell-cot wrote:
       | > "A paradise for walkers and nature lovers." That's how the
       | Municipality describes Hydra on its website, promoting the
       | island's uniqueness, where the movement of all wheeled vehicles
       | is prohibited by law. However, laws are made to be broken--
       | especially when there is no one responsible or interested in
       | enforcing them. Thus, this otherwise beautiful island, rich in
       | archaeological and natural treasures and boasting unique
       | architecture, has become filled with cars, motorcycles, bicycles,
       | and of course, scooters, which are trendier than walking.
       | 
       | Sounds like the usual "humans want pretended virtues, and laws
       | are for the little people" deal to me.
        
       | xcskier56 wrote:
       | One of my favorite things when I was here was seeing an Amazon
       | Prime logo on the saddlebag of a donkey. That struck me as a very
       | weird collision of old and new worlds
        
       | tiahura wrote:
       | Push them into the water?
        
         | madaxe_again wrote:
         | You jest, but this almost certainly already happens - but out
         | of sight, out of mind.
        
           | tiahura wrote:
           | I'm not jesting. Lucky enough to have been years ago. It's
           | fairly steep from center of island to coast with a 6+ ft drop
           | to the water around much of it, so it wouldn't take much.
        
       | potato3732842 wrote:
       | I grew up on an island. If you see something that looks insane
       | it's almost always an economic distortion as a result of the high
       | cost of getting stuff in and our or an economic distortion as a
       | result of government doing something absurd to protect the big
       | local industry (tourism, retirement, etc).
       | 
       | For the longest time they wouldn't let a scrap metal place exist.
       | Then eventually someone just started running one accessory to
       | another business via a loophole and all the metal trash that
       | adorned the ditches in secluded areas just vanished and didn't
       | get replaced.
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-25 23:01 UTC)