[HN Gopher] Hong Kong's Famous Bamboo Scaffolding Hangs on (For ...
___________________________________________________________________
Hong Kong's Famous Bamboo Scaffolding Hangs on (For Now)
Author : perihelions
Score : 135 points
Date : 2025-05-24 12:08 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nytimes.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nytimes.com)
| pvg wrote:
| Unpaywalled -
| https://www.nytimes.com/2025/05/24/world/asia/hongkong-bambo...
| Gathering6678 wrote:
| "the rest of China pivoted toward metal amid an overproduction of
| steel."
|
| So the steel is cheaper than bamboo?
|
| The truth is: it is simply not as safe as metal. E.g. bamboo
| scaffolding has been outlawed in Shenzhen since 1994 [0] due to
| safety concerns.
|
| [0]:
| https://www.sz.gov.cn/zfgb/2008/gb622/content/post_4950758.h...
| samlinnfer wrote:
| It doesn't say bamboo is inherently unsafe, it says due to a
| shortage of bamboo meeting the required standards (4 years old,
| 7.5cm for vertical and 9cm for horizontal supports) and
| construction sites using substandard bamboo as substitute have
| resulted in collapses in heavy weather conditions.
|
| It's easier just to require steel than to play bamboo police.
| wussboy wrote:
| Is no one playing steel police?
| Waterluvian wrote:
| I'm curious what the failure modes are. Is it because of the
| bamboo or because of the way they're fastened? Or something
| else.
| hunglee2 wrote:
| bamboo scaffolding might be one of those examples of where a
| superior local solution gets replaced by an inferior, yet more
| scalable generalisable solution. Bamboo is organic, therefore
| non-standard, therefore harder to track, measure, quantify,
| maintain - everything you want to do in health and safety,
| organic material will frustrate. So even though it is better
| solution in so many ways (cheaper, lighter, flexible, green, man-
| portable etc) because it is non-standard it ends up being
| considered unsafe
| genter wrote:
| I dunno. Framing lumber is organic, yet we have systems to
| grade it and charts to show how strong it is (taking into
| account random imperfections).
| kijin wrote:
| Yeah, since they use so much bamboo, it might be feasible to
| grade the pipes by thickness and/or some other objective
| measure of strength. Heck, they probably already do,
| informally.
|
| As for imperfections, the bamboo masters seem to know how to
| (over)compensate for them, i.e. they build the scaffolding to
| withstand several times the expected load. As would any good
| engineer.
| AlecSchueler wrote:
| > Heck, they probably already do, informally.
|
| I feel like I'm seeing more and more of this kind of
| conjecture on HN about things that are quite easy to
| verify.
|
| It also surprises me that anyone would assume they're
| either operating without any standardisation or that they'd
| only be doing it informally. It's China, first of all, and
| it's the 21st century.
|
| The guidelines from the local government are available
| here: https://www.bd.gov.hk/doc/en/resources/codes-and-
| references/...
|
| The bamboo is specified by genus, age, drying time,
| thickness etc. with exact tolerances given for variation.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Hell, even in the 5th century or before, they'd have had
| enough experience to know that bamboo of certain size
| would be appropriate or not. Sure, they might not now the
| exact tensile strength in Netwons or lbs/in or whatever
| unit, but they'd have enough experience to know that to
| make a bridge for an ox to cross would need certain sizes
| of bamboo. Even if that knowledge came from losing an ox
| or two, it would have been learned quickly enough.
| BJones12 wrote:
| I believe you're touching on the idea of 'legibility'. The
| topic is explored in the book Seeing Like A State
| (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_Like_a_State).
| dylan604 wrote:
| I think that there are ways to standardize organic components.
| One of the links provided in another comment to the south china
| morning post has a good write up on the scaffolding. They show
| the minimum thickness of the wood as well as the minimum
| diameter. We know that wood of specified dimensions have the
| necessary strength. Sure, these components might not be
| "straight", but as long as they have the minimum specs, they
| can be considered standardized. Hell, go to your local big box
| hardware store, either the blue one or orange one, and look at
| all of the non-straight standardized lumber they offer. People
| build houses out of that crap
| contingencies wrote:
| A shame that only zipties are mentioned with no discussion of
| traditional rope materials. It was interesting to see the
| Cantonese theater discussed. There is a very active Bangkok
| Chinese cultural and financial support for Cantonese theater.
| Every year, around Chinese New Year time, numerous stages are
| constructed (sometimes with forecourt gates) across the city and
| Cantonese opera performers are flown in from mainland China.
| Catch it while you can.
| lionkor wrote:
| If you look at the pictures where it says "zip ties", they
| clearly are not zip ties. They are long strands of bamboo.
| foresto wrote:
| The ribbons don't look to me like bamboo. Another commenter
| here (alexpotato) says the ones he observed up close were
| nylon.
| Foobar8568 wrote:
| It's nylon, and safety measures are a joke. You will see
| often workers shirtless/no helm/no safety harness up there.
| __mharrison__ wrote:
| I was in Hong Kong (first time) a week ago.
|
| The bamboo surprised me, so I took a look. I didn't see any
| zip ties. It looked like it was lashed together with the
| nylon ribbon that is often used in packing.
|
| Really amazing to see it on 20 story buildings.
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| Cantonese, from mainland China?
| tdeck wrote:
| Guangdong is mainland China.
| inkyoto wrote:
| Yes. The Cantonese culture as well as the language are very
| much alive and kicking in Gwongdung and in Gwongsai - the
| homeland of the Cantonese culture. Both are part of mainland
| China. The wider area, that also includes Hong Kong and
| Macau, is known as Lingnan.
| alexpotato wrote:
| I was in Hong Kong several years ago and saw some of the
| scaffolding up close.
|
| As a former Boy Scout with a lot of experience in knots/lashing
| etc, I was VERY curious to see what kind of ropes, knots and
| lashing they use.
|
| Turns out it's just some flat nylon ribbon and mostly a couple
| quick wraps and overhand knots.
|
| Really is amazing that it all stays together. I imagine the
| friction between the ribbon and the wood surface of the bamboo
| must be high enough to be "sticky".
| aaron695 wrote:
| > mostly a couple quick wraps and overhand knots.
|
| "The toughest part of the job, though, is tying a proper knot
| to secure bamboo poles, which can take years to master"
|
| Cool sketches of the knots -
| https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/culture/article/318...
|
| I'm sure the years to master includes where and which way to do
| the knots.
|
| > some flat nylon ribbon
|
| Over 0.5 kN per strip, blah blah boring specs for the
| scaffolding which at 25 pages would be... 100 times shorter
| than the EU?
|
| Any who, my bamboo wilted after cutting, you have to treat it
| it seems... so not even close to the knot stage, but did find
| the spec'ed lashes, then remembered I hate knots, like just the
| basic reef knot ones... screw years. Zip ties FTW
| muti wrote:
| Knots and construction with poles and rope lashing was always
| my favourite part of scouts. The sketches of the knot looks
| cool on the surface but don't tell me much about how they are
| tied or what other lashings they are similar to. Not much
| detail and the second image has three running ends?
| themanmaran wrote:
| The post below got flagged, but they the link they shared has
| some really nice visualizations of the scaffolding:
|
| https://multimedia.scmp.com/infographics/culture/article/318...
| mrob wrote:
| Wrapping a rope under tension for several turns around a
| cylinder can make very strong assemblies. Relevant concept:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capstan_equation
|
| Note that the exponent is proportional to the number of turns.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| It's a simple square pole lashing knot (also known as a
| japanese square lashing). It works well with almost any kind of
| cordage. The knot holds the poles in a 90-degree orientation
| and the finish of the knot tightens the main cord to lock it in
| place. Natural fiber actually locks better than nylon as it has
| more 'tooth'. The use of nylon is mostly to resist the
| elements, adds a bit more strength, is cheaper to manufacture
| and easy to cut for disassembly.
| NaOH wrote:
| Related, and worthwhile for the source article:
|
| _Why Hong Kong uses bamboo scaffolding, and meet the spider-men
| who climb it_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42665355 -
| Jan 2025 (2 comments)
|
| _Bamboo Scaffolding in Hong Kong_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42820011 - Jan 2025 (3
| comments)
| RyJones wrote:
| As a former construction worker, I marveled at this when I was in
| Hong Kong a few years ago. We spent so much time rigging
| scaffolding in the US - these guys just grabbed a bunch of
| bamboo, some rope, and built platforms tout de suite.
| davidcalloway wrote:
| I lived in Hong Kong for nearly a year and our building underwent
| renovation on the facade at the time.
|
| We could open our windows and go up to the roof on the
| scaffolding.
|
| Good times.
| andyonthewings wrote:
| Here is a video produced by MillMILK, which is IMO one of the
| best Hong Kong YouTube channels. They documented how giant bamboo
| scaffoldings are built on the cliff. I have verified the auto
| translated Eng subtitles are pretty good.
| https://youtu.be/ndf1QcBmQiM
| timewizard wrote:
| > Traditionally, workers learn their craft by shadowing one
| master with knowledge passed down through generations.
|
| I love it when white collar people try to have perspectives on
| blue collar life.
|
| > But Ms Pak learned any way she could, working with different
| bosses to broaden her skills and techniques, and overcoming
| taunts about her ability as a novice and her 5-foot-1 stature.
|
| That's literally every construction job anywhere ever.
|
| > "It would be a shame if the tradition dies in our hands," she
| said.
|
| There's no reason the tradition has to die. You just can't
| legitimately use it anymore for complex and large scale building
| projects. Profits are not more important than lives.
|
| What a bizarre perspective this article puts forward.
| roncesvalles wrote:
| Bamboo scaffolding is also very prevalent in Indian cities.
| Actually before seeing this article, I thought it was an Indian
| technique.
| ddeck wrote:
| I find the single apartment scaffolding to be the most amazing.
| These guys turn up at the door of your 30th floor apartment with
| a bunch of bamboo poles and nylon strips and a couple of hours
| lated the entire side of the apartment is scafolded, like a
| spider's nest hanging off the side of the building.
|
| To begin, one guy hangs out the window, drills a few holes in the
| outer concrete wall, and bolts a piece of L shaped steel to
| support the initial bamboo "floor". After that he's outside
| balancing on the first piece while he drills more and extends
| along the wall. Someone on the feeds the poles through the
| window.
|
| He usually has a rope attached to a waist harness, which is
| initially held by someone inside, and then clipped to the braces
| outside... most of the time.
|
| The whole thing is amazing to watch.
|
| It's necessary every time you need to service something outside,
| like replacing or repairing aircon.
| ptek wrote:
| Former Australia scaffolder here: The bamboo scaffold is used to
| hold people mainly and to act as fall protection not support
| weights like steel scaffold (i.e They won't be storing I-Beams on
| it temporarily or shifting wheel barrows full of cement). Weight
| difference in people. When I was scaffolding in Australia, I was
| 70Kg and 178cm tall. I was working with people who were
| 100-120kg+, Those people would have been carrying 4-5 steel
| boards about 80-100kgs on their shoulder, I was carrying 3-4
| steel boards 60-80kgs. Light duty scaffold, is 2 boards wide
| (450mm) and 3m long bays. I could pass another person my weight,
| but some one who is 100-120Kg+ I would struggle on scaffold. Most
| of it is build at heavy duty steel which is 5 boards wide + 2
| board hop ups and 2.4m long (Standards say it should be 1.8m
| long). After 45M high, scaffold has to restart again and they use
| I beams inside the buildings and U heads under the screw jacks
| before they start building again. I prefer buildings 4 storeys
| high (1 ground + 3 levels), that is you get the sun in the winter
| and if the shit hits the fan even if you jump from that high you
| may break bones but you should still be able to live depending on
| what you land on.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-05-24 23:00 UTC)