[HN Gopher] Find Your People
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Find Your People
        
       Author : jl
       Score  : 312 points
       Date   : 2025-05-23 16:02 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (foundersatwork.posthaven.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (foundersatwork.posthaven.com)
        
       | vzaliva wrote:
       | It's a lovely speech. I'm older now and can appreciate it.
       | However, I'm not sure if I would have in my twenties.
       | Unfortunately, some things can't be advised or taught - you have
       | to discover them for yourself through trial and error.
        
       | apsurd wrote:
       | Good speech. It makes me think of why the rich get richer though.
       | More access to more types of people earlier and throughout one's
       | life.
       | 
       | The best thing to give kids is access to a very wide--as wide as
       | they can stomach--orientation of all there is in the world. It's
       | not curation, it's not "the best". it's volume and contrasts.
       | 
       | I debate my friends about private school. they have kids, I don't
       | yet. Private school is actually a narrow lens, is my argument.
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | I don't think anybody would argue that it's a narrower lens
         | than public school, the argument is that it's _better_. Not
         | just academically, although that 's the case 99 times out of
         | 100. But as you alluded to yourself in this very comment, the
         | kids at private schools get access to other kids (and families)
         | at that private school.
        
         | ketzo wrote:
         | Aside from the pure "networking" factor, the
         | expectations/environment are a big deal too
         | 
         | I went to private school and in hindsight it pretty obviously
         | altered my life for the better -- I was a smart but lazy kid,
         | and being surrounded by people who were dead-set on going to
         | Harvard, and by teachers who _expected_ excellence, was a huge
         | factor in making me actually try hard.
         | 
         | If I was a smart lazy kid at a school where I had to _try_ to
         | find that environment, rather than being thrust into it, I
         | would have had a much lower trajectory.
        
           | apsurd wrote:
           | Environmental expectations and accountability is a great
           | point. Hard to deny how wide the gap can be between various
           | groups.
        
           | cmehdy wrote:
           | I was that other kid. Grew up in a pretty tough place, where
           | dodging blades was no euphemism and emotional regulation was
           | on permanent hiatus. Grew up with severe issues in personal
           | life and balance of self, absence of anchors in family and
           | social relationships. Was always curious, always loved
           | understanding things.
           | 
           | When you don't have good people around, you pay the price in
           | time and pain. Those people will save you years and hundreds
           | of thousands - or even millions, simply by showing you the
           | most egregious traps to avoid and the more virtuous
           | behaviours to adopt. They'll make your success more
           | predictable, less reliant on the specifics of your genetic
           | makeup, domestic instability, and odd moments of luck.
           | 
           | I was a good kid. Didn't end up well at all. Figured I could
           | at least try to be a good person to others as time goes on,
           | and pass on the gotchas and virtuous habits I partly figured
           | out myself.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | I don't know what the axes are for your trajectory plot, but
           | some of the people I know who seem to really enjoy their
           | lives are not high achievers if you measure by status or
           | finances.
           | 
           | It's hard to find things that all of them have in common.
           | They all come from supportive, functioning families and all
           | of them are artistic people working in technical fields and
           | have high EQ. They are all very curious but not scattered or
           | unfocused.
           | 
           | I didn't know if I should write creative or artistic above
           | because they are so similar. They are different though,
           | right?
        
             | jimbokun wrote:
             | > They all come from supportive, functioning families and
             | all of them are artistic people working in technical fields
             | and have high EQ. They are all very curious but not
             | scattered or unfocused.
             | 
             | Seems like it wasn't too hard to find things all of them
             | have in common.
        
               | criddell wrote:
               | Yeah, rereading my comment I don't think I said what I
               | wanted to say. It wasn't very insightful.
        
         | bko wrote:
         | > The best thing to give kids is access to a very wide--as wide
         | as they can stomach--orientation of all there is in the world.
         | 
         | This sounds good sure, but what if you give your child a wide
         | orientation and they want to be an influencer, or club
         | promoter, or grind it out in acting? They almost certainly
         | won't want to become an accountant or nurse. Who would want to
         | do that by choice?
         | 
         | But maybe an accountant or nurse is the path to a good life.
         | The extreme is celebrity children which often have issues.
         | 
         | I think its good to have restraints. If you have an infinite
         | bank roll and no real forcing function, you're likely to get
         | lost
        
           | bluefirebrand wrote:
           | > I think its good to have restraints. If you have an
           | infinite bank roll and no real forcing function, you're
           | likely to get lost
           | 
           | You're absolutely right
           | 
           | I wonder how many people graduate from prestigious
           | universities, well connected and set up to succeed, and then
           | don't ever really make anything of themselves
        
         | softfalcon wrote:
         | I mostly agree with you, as a person who went to a middle-of-
         | the-road public school.
         | 
         | I will point out though, anecdotally, my spouse went to the
         | highest tier of public school in our city. She has a good
         | balance of "seeing the world for what it is" while also having
         | an edge of being personally networked to a ton of folks who are
         | rich, well-connected, and capable.
         | 
         | I look at the friend groups I built when I was a kid, and then
         | I look at hers.
         | 
         | - My old friend groups are all stuck in a range of poverty to
         | lower-middle-class.
         | 
         | - My spouses friends are all doing very well for themselves,
         | live all over the world, prestigious careers, active hobbies,
         | highly intellectual, cultured, etc.
         | 
         | It's a stark contrast.
         | 
         | There is something to be said for ensuring your kids go to the
         | best schools possible. Those early networks are pivotal in
         | forming an above average life.
         | 
         | Competency is secondary to connection.
        
           | Karrot_Kream wrote:
           | I went to a poverty level school, my partner went to one of
           | the most elite schools in the US. My friends are also stuck
           | in poverty or the lower-middle-class while my partner's
           | friends seem quite conventionally successful. But several of
           | my partner's friends are quite frustrated with their career
           | choices. They feel like they were hemmed into high-prestige
           | careers. A lot of them are not particularly successful in
           | their careers because they don't feel the passion to succeed
           | and feel like their choices were taken away from them. Many
           | of them have very anxious memories from school of perpetually
           | feeling like they were failing because of the high pressure
           | of the school.
           | 
           | There are many aspects of my low-income schooling I would not
           | want to pass onto a child but there are also aspects of my
           | partner's schooling that I wouldn't want to pass either. I
           | don't really know what the answer is, but I feel like being
           | at either end of the normal distribution of schools here
           | isn't good.
        
             | ketzo wrote:
             | It's certainly true that there are real downsides to both
             | ends of the spectrum -- but all things being equal I'd
             | rather be wiping my tears with hundred dollar bills than
             | tissues
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | You say that, until you start spending those hundred
               | dollar bills on therapy. I'm only being a bit silly here,
               | a pretty high number of these folks are in therapy
               | dealing with the alienation they feel over their life for
               | being forced into a career path they felt like they had
               | no choice in.
        
               | ketzo wrote:
               | I mean, at some point this is a way-too-abstract point
               | with no real answer
               | 
               | But being in therapy and alienated from your life, but
               | rich, is not comparable to being actually poor, to not
               | being able to provide for the people you love, to not
               | being able to meet your basic needs. I'm sorry, but it's
               | just not.
               | 
               | Let alone the fact that, trust me, lots of poorer people
               | are alienated from their jobs/lifestyle too! They just
               | can't afford the therapy!
        
               | Karrot_Kream wrote:
               | Like I said earlier: "I don't really know what the answer
               | is, but I feel like being at either end of the normal
               | distribution of schools here isn't good."
        
               | apsurd wrote:
               | This is too easily a soundbite. Sounds good so people say
               | it.
               | 
               | It's only true at the extreme ends though. Reliable
               | access to food and shelter is a prerequisite so let's get
               | that out of the way.
               | 
               | I do worry that "rich people problems" are in ways worse
               | problems to have. They're sinister and they cut deep.
               | People become utility functions. Inability to form or
               | even understand authentic relationships. Hamster wheel of
               | self-worth being tied to capitalistic productivity: also
               | paradoxically management hijinks . Existential crises.
               | Law of diminishing returns. There was a post about what
               | the rich have access to that others don't. Takeaway was
               | actually not much, not in physical goods at least.
               | 
               | Stuff like that.
        
           | bluefirebrand wrote:
           | > There is something to be said for ensuring your kids go to
           | the best schools possible. Those early networks are pivotal
           | in forming an above average life.
           | 
           | I think this might be more of an American thing tbh. Having
           | early networks can help grease the wheels for an above
           | average life maybe but it's not so straightforward.
           | 
           | Personally, I went to an average public high school, I went
           | to a small university (~9k students), and I'm now one of the
           | top 3% of earners in my country just shy of a decade after
           | graduating
           | 
           | I didn't wind up keeping in touch with anyone I went to any
           | of my schooling with, honestly. I had to move away from my
           | hometown to find opportunities so those bonds faded
           | 
           | It hasn't been easy for sure, it would definitely help to
           | have that embedded network from childhood, but I don't think
           | that is a requirement
           | 
           | Being competent and working hard can get you a long way
        
         | gen220 wrote:
         | Having thought about this a good amount and collected anecdotes
         | over the years... I think the prioritization order should be
         | (1) live in a location in which the parents feel their most
         | authentic/happy/self-actualized selves, (2) send your children
         | to the most geographically proximate school where they won't be
         | (overly-)bullied for their identity (inclusive of class) one
         | way or another.
         | 
         | Relative school quality (performance on standardized tests,
         | admissions to fancy schools), and public/private are proxies
         | for these more fundamental issues. Too many parents discount
         | the value of (1) to zero, with the idea that they're
         | "sacrificing themselves" "for their kids".
         | 
         | An example of one good reason to not send your kids to private
         | school: Burning yourself out on a series of high-stress job to
         | afford sending your middle-class kid to an upper-class private
         | school will traumatize them. If not for their education/social
         | experience at school, then for your lack of calming and
         | positive influence on their emotional/relationship-forming
         | lives.
         | 
         | I don't think it's necessarily "wrong" for some people to send
         | their kids to a "narrow-lens" school, even if it's often wrong.
         | It can be right for somebody else and wrong for you.
        
           | ketzo wrote:
           | I think this is an excellent comment. Not enough people talk
           | about living near other parents in this way, and you're right
           | that it's a massive difference-maker.
        
         | alooPotato wrote:
         | Agree that a wide diversity of people is great. Disagree on the
         | private school - it is a narrow band, but so is public school.
         | I think ppl overestimate the diversity in public school and
         | underestimate it in private school.
         | 
         | Neither is enough - def need to find ways to expand kids
         | network, especially the network of adults they know.
        
         | kayge wrote:
         | As someone who wishes they could realistically afford private
         | school for their kids (public school leaves a lot to be desired
         | for 'gifted' kids these days), I think you've got good points
         | but I land on the other side. Using some of your quotes:
         | private school is "a narrow lens", but that lens likely
         | includes a high percentage of the "rich get richer" network. I
         | think my ideal would be private school to help find a better
         | match for my kids' brainpower (2 of them anyway, tbd on #3 :D)
         | and make some good high-value connections, but still make a
         | conscious effort to encourage them to interact with a wider
         | variety of people (through travel, public sports teams,
         | community service, etc.)
        
           | apsurd wrote:
           | > (2 of them anyway, tbd on #3 :D)
           | 
           | LOL; thanks this made my chill Friday very chill.
           | 
           | On principle, I don't like feeding into wealth disparity so I
           | don't want to pay for private school. Your perspective is
           | most practical and likely something I'll lean into as I do
           | have kids of my own. "Why not do both" basically.
        
         | ip26 wrote:
         | A wide perspective is good, but that is orthogonal to what they
         | experience as normal. You can select for a good, healthy normal
         | AND provide a wide experience.
         | 
         | Your child doesn't have to attend a school where educational
         | attainment isn't valued, to understand that perspective exists.
         | 
         | Their "normal" will strongly influence their choices. For
         | example, if you wanted your child to attend college, I would
         | argue the _single best way_ to ensure they do is to enroll them
         | in a high school where 90%+ of the student body later goes on
         | to college.
        
         | jgon wrote:
         | I think its important to think about this point in the context
         | that Jessica attended one of the most elite private schools in
         | the US, Phillips Academy, with an annual tuition that is
         | currently ~60kUSD/year. Notable alumni include both Bush
         | presidents, and many billionaires or their children. Afterwards
         | she attended Bucknell University, another private elite
         | institution, tuition ~65kUSD/year, where the median family
         | income is > 200kUSD/year, and 73% of the student body is from
         | the top 20% income bracket.
         | 
         | So its important to "find your people", but as always it's as
         | important to situate advice in the context where the advice-
         | giver issues it from, and in this case Jessica has spent her
         | entire life as an elite, finding other elites in elite circles,
         | and I'm going to hazard a guess that this is probably something
         | that has had a positive impact on her life.
         | 
         | I think your friends are probably on to something, realizing
         | that you're responsible for helping to guide your child as they
         | grow up has a way of crystalizing certain arguments, and
         | various "hypotheticals" fall by the wayside as the attraction
         | of an intellectual experiment and being the devil's advocate
         | just doesn't really have the same pull anymore once it's your
         | own child's future at stake and not just some thought
         | experiment about "volumes and contrasts". As always people are
         | free to make their own choices, and even listen to a speech
         | from someone who was able have almost $200,000 of money spent
         | on their high-school education, a speech about how to plan your
         | career that is big on "gumption" and "stick to it" energy, and
         | surprisingly short on "be born in the top 1% of economic
         | circles", but given that this is a speech at the aforementioned
         | Bucknell, I am pretty sure that most of the crowd is already
         | pretty hip to the realities of the world they're about to
         | enter.
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | In my case, the subway crashed into the station at about 100mph,
       | and I had to crawl out of the wreckage, and repair the damage,
       | before I could proceed. When I did proceed, I had to buck
       | constant headwinds.
       | 
       | Worked great. Would ride again. 10/10.
        
         | charlie0 wrote:
         | Say more.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | It's a long story, and probably not one for this venue, but
           | suffice it to say that the skills one develops, rebuilding a
           | shattered life, tend to give significant advantages.
           | 
           |  _> That which does not kill you, makes you stronger.
           | 
           | - Freddy Nietzsche_
           | 
           |  _> Or leaves you weak and exhausted.
           | 
           | - Bill Prekker's Corollary_
        
             | epolanski wrote:
             | I can relate and feel the same about myself. Disasters and
             | dramas since young age made me quite resilient at embracing
             | change and difficulty.
        
       | ryandrake wrote:
       | I feel like I'm too thoroughly cynical and jaded to take the
       | tropes in "graduation speeches" seriously. Bringing someone back
       | in who graduated in a totally different time, to a totally
       | different world, in a totally different competitive, political,
       | and economic landscape, to ramble about what they did when they
       | graduated seems kind of pointless. Is her (or anyone's) story
       | from the 90s really useful for someone graduating today?
       | 
       | Ms. Livingston graduated around when I did. I can't think of
       | anything that I (or she) did to launch a career, either pre- or
       | post-graduation that would be applicable to someone graduating
       | today. When we graduated, you could actually get an entry level
       | job in an office as a generic English major. You were generally
       | competing with others in your local area or state, not the entire
       | world's best. You could spam a bunch of resumes out and count on
       | a handful of interviews and a few offers. You had at least a
       | little assurance that if you did a good job, you'd advance or
       | job-hop your way to something better. Back then, your student
       | debt was (usually) manageable post-graduation and not a ball and
       | chain holding you back. With a little diligent saving, you had a
       | shot at affording a home and getting on the real estate ladder.
       | And, you could do all these things as a B or C student, without
       | being the world's foremost expert in your field.
       | 
       | I don't think any of these are true anymore. Graduates today are
       | entering a dog eat dog capitalist slugfest where a lucky few
       | winners take all. They're graduating into relative poverty and
       | crushing debt, with no realistic opportunity to save. The job
       | prospects for people without experience are generally awful.
       | You're up against the world's best, plus a growing number of
       | privileged elite "sons of the right people" sponging up all the
       | really good jobs. Crappy work as a temp worker if you're lucky,
       | stocking shelves or waiting tables if you're not. Good luck
       | finding an actual full-time office gig related to your degree,
       | unless you're top of your class. And even if you do, you're under
       | constant threat of PIP, downsizing, or AI taking your place.
       | "Find the people that you think are interesting" is kind of tone
       | deaf happy-talk in today's reality.
        
         | snapcaster wrote:
         | What would you tell the graduating students?
        
         | parpfish wrote:
         | Also: the "find your people" advice would be far more helpful
         | at the _beginning_ of college so you can maximize the various
         | high-leverage opportunities around you.
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | > _Ms. Livingston graduated around when I did. I can 't think
         | of anything that I (or she) did to launch a career, either pre-
         | or post-graduation that would be applicable to someone
         | graduating today._
         | 
         | Really? Not a single thing? Not "work hard," or "be curious,"
         | or "be willing to fail or be wrong?" Those aren't genetic
         | qualities, they can be taught and they can be learned.
         | 
         | I don't know when you graduated but I've been working
         | professionally for nearly 2 decades now and I heard the same
         | thing when I graduated - about how it was so much easier just
         | 5, 10, 15 years prior, how I was in for a real battle, how I
         | had an insurmountable amount of debt given my earnings
         | prospects. And yes it was hard but I survived - I could have
         | made smarter decisions to make it easier, I could have made
         | worse decisions and ended up a barista in my late 30s. On a
         | systemic level it might be harder now, it might not be. But
         | they will survive as all previous generations have and will
         | continue to.
         | 
         | There seems to be a bimodal distribution in people 20-30 years
         | post-college discussing today's graduates. It's either "these
         | kids are so lazy noboDY wAntS To WorK ANYMore just have a firm
         | handshake" nonsense, or "these children will be wage slaves
         | forever and it is undeniably the fault of
         | capitalism/AI/Musk/whatever boogeyman."
         | 
         | I think it was hard when I started out. I think it's probably a
         | little harder now. That doesn't mean it's any more of a "dog
         | eat dog capitalist slugfest" than it was 10, 20, 30 years
         | prior.
        
           | jll29 wrote:
           | > today are entering a dog eat dog capitalist slugfest where
           | a lucky few winners take all.
           | 
           | If you believe that to be true, perhaps it might be worth
           | trying to become one of the few lucky winners.
           | 
           | Or come on, learn some Python and take the second prize with
           | a six digit salary in a corporation, private health insurance
           | and benefits plan.
        
           | leoc wrote:
           | > I don't know when you graduated but I've been working
           | professionally for nearly 2 decades now and I heard the same
           | thing when I graduated - about how it was so much easier just
           | 5, 10, 15 years prior, how I was in for a real battle, how I
           | had an insurmountable amount of debt given my earnings
           | prospects.
           | 
           | On the whole the graduate market has indeed been getting
           | fairly steadily worse, and student greater, for the past
           | forty or more years, no?
        
         | dang wrote:
         | This is the kind of comment that the newest HN guideline is
         | designed to discourage:
         | 
         | " _Don 't be curmudgeonly._" -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
         | 
         | What counts as being curmudgeonly? Here's one heuristic: if a
         | comment is flying close to the planet "Everything is worse than
         | it used to be," then it probably is.
         | 
         | There's also this one, btw: " _Please don 't fulminate._" -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | ryandrake wrote:
           | Well, that one's news to me, thanks for pointing it out. Huh.
           | I feel... mildly targeted, actually! We only want positive
           | thoughts now, I guess.
           | 
           | I changed my mind. The speech is great. New graduates should
           | totally listen to it and follow it's extremely relevant
           | advice.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | > _We only want positive thoughts now, I guess._
             | 
             | Not so! Check out the next sentence: " _Thoughtful
             | criticism is fine, but please don 't be rigidly or
             | generically negative._" -
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
             | 
             | I'm sorry you felt targeted and promise you it's nothing
             | personal. It's that we're trying for _curious_
             | conversation, which the rigid-and-generic sort of
             | negativity annihilates. There 's not much room for curious
             | response when a comment insists that the world is nothing
             | but a "dog eat dog slugfest".
             | 
             | Btw, I believe that the deeper problem is that it's hard to
             | tell how one's comments are going to come across. Most
             | people underestimate the negativity they're contributing by
             | a good 10x or so, which leads to quite a skew in
             | perception. That could explain, for example, why you felt
             | like I must be telling you to only do happytalk.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | OK. The tribe has spoken. No more gloom and doom. I
               | suppose there are other message boards for that. I
               | appreciate the intentional and purposeful moderation
               | here, even if I sometimes strongly disagree with the
               | intent behind it.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | I think the more accurate conclusion would be 'make your
               | doom and gloom more interesting'. You can beat just about
               | any of the local rules with interestingness, people do it
               | all the time.
        
       | wagwang wrote:
       | Kids not feeling like they have agency is a huge problem in the
       | asian community which likes to put their kids on steel tracks
       | with 0 wiggle room, this speech resonated with me big time
        
         | game_the0ry wrote:
         | As a south asian person, I could not agree more.
         | 
         | The irony is that my parents were immigrant entrepreneurs and
         | my grandparents were also entrepreneurs on both sides. Yet my
         | parents pushed me towards medical school or a stable job at the
         | least.
         | 
         | I think this was for a couple reasons:
         | 
         | 1. Asian parents express their insecurities through their
         | children. They wanted a stable and high income (which maps to
         | "doctor") so they push their kids to become the version of them
         | they never were.
         | 
         | 2. Asian parents treat their children like status symbols.
         | Nothing says "I am the best parent" than being able to say "my
         | son/daughter is a doctor." Saying 'my son/daughter owns their
         | own business" just does not have the same ring to it.
         | 
         | In asian cultures, status and conformity are very valuable, and
         | those do not map to high agency.
        
           | herval wrote:
           | This sounds wildly similar to Brazilian parenting
        
             | yoyohello13 wrote:
             | It's a spectrum. Many parents, across all countries act
             | like this.
        
               | disgruntledphd2 wrote:
               | It tends to be associated with immigrants and parents who
               | believe that they should have had a "better" job (even
               | when they like what they do, they don't want their kids
               | doing it).
        
           | jimbokun wrote:
           | Not Asian or South Asian. I'm sure what you're saying is
           | true.
           | 
           | But having parents that are not involved enough to push their
           | kids towards anything in particular is a much bigger
           | challenge to over come.
           | 
           | If you have a degree from a prestigious university and the
           | network that comes along with it, pivoting towards start ups
           | or something more creative or entrepreneurial is a lot easier
           | than if you never went to college at all or didn't finish
           | high school.
        
             | Karrot_Kream wrote:
             | On both ends here it's bad. I know several Asian kids who
             | have permanently frayed relationships with parents because
             | of how they felt their parents imposed their desires on
             | their lives. The best is in the middle.
        
             | lanfeust6 wrote:
             | > push their kids
             | 
             | I think complete apathy is uncommon. Parents mostly want
             | their kids to succeed in what would loosely map to their
             | own definitions, to be "content" and self-reliant. If they
             | come from a blue collar background that will mean
             | suggesting their kids pick up a trade. Educated parents
             | will usually suggest college.
             | 
             | You can't will ambition in someone else that isn't there,
             | and it comes at a price. Some parents relentlessly make
             | their kids train hard at sports, or studying, and they're
             | miserable and resentful for it.
        
       | rubitxxx15 wrote:
       | It's a great speech, but I've listened to this "chase your dream"
       | thing for decades. I took career and personality tests but
       | nothing in them fit. I don't fit. I've gotten seriously jaded and
       | live with crippling mental health problems and constant stress
       | because I feel like I failed to find my people and now I just
       | hide from my people.
       | 
       | So, as an older adult, I think maybe we need to be teaching more
       | responsibility to kids today rather than this Disney fantasy. If
       | people just focus on trying to do the best they can, that's good
       | enough. And spend that extra time improving your home,
       | volunteering, and working on your finances like people did in the
       | mid-to-late 20th century.
        
         | smeej wrote:
         | I came here to leave a comment related to this. This article
         | has great advice, if you're normal enough that enough of "your
         | people" exist to be able to find them and do something
         | together.
         | 
         | But if you've spent your whole life being told by the whole
         | world--even people _you_ thought were really interesting and
         | wanted to get to know--that you 're "just too fucking weird,"
         | it lands more like, "Oh. More advice for _other_ people. "
         | 
         | Similarly, if you're a person who likes all kinds of things--
         | but only for 6 weeks to 6 months and then becomes utterly bored
         | of them--there is no stable group of "your people." There's
         | just "these people, for now, I guess," and you hold them
         | lightly because you know in a matter of months, when you don't
         | share the passion for the one thing they're _stably_ obsessed
         | with, you won 't have enough in common anymore for them to
         | tolerate you.
         | 
         | I'm almost 40. I'm really at a decision point where I have to
         | decide if I want to keep working on my underlying trauma
         | wounds, in hopes that if I just work hard enough, I'll
         | eventually break into the "fun kind of odd" category instead of
         | "too fucking weird," and blend in enough to have "people," or
         | whether I want to own that this is just how I am, and there's
         | nothing to be done about it, so I should really do what I can
         | to appreciate the fleeting tolerance of "people who don't know
         | me very well yet" while it lasts, but invest most of my energy
         | in trying to figure out if there's any way to be both happy and
         | lonely.
        
           | MicrosoftShill wrote:
           | It sounds like you need some friends in the maker space or
           | something similar where tinkering in something temporary is
           | normal. I'd say you're among friends in the HN space where
           | tinkerers are more common!
           | 
           | Keep working on your trauma. Don't however think that your
           | healing is a requirement to have friends, love, etc. We are
           | all broken and hurt. We are broken together.
        
             | smeej wrote:
             | I've tried a couple times, but the interest in making
             | physical things cycles through just like any other
             | interest. Then it gets replaced by something like
             | neurobiology or anthropology and I don't want to make
             | things for awhile.
             | 
             | It seems like I really enjoy the beginnings of things, like
             | if we run Pareto ratios twice, I like the 4% of the
             | learning that gets me 64% of the understanding. And then
             | it's enough and I'm done. It's enough to ask questions of
             | the interesting people without sounding like a total n00b.
             | 
             | In the time it would take to master one thing, I become
             | "barely proficient" in 25, but it's hard to build anything
             | meaningful, including human connections, operating like
             | that.
             | 
             | I know healing isn't a requirement to _deserve_ the
             | friendship of others. But if I keep operating like this
             | because of it, it 's definitely an impediment to building
             | those friendships.
        
           | shayway wrote:
           | > Similarly, if you're a person who likes all kinds of things
           | --but only for 6 weeks to 6 months and then becomes utterly
           | bored of them--there is no stable group of "your people."
           | There's just "these people, for now, I guess," and you hold
           | them lightly because you know in a matter of months, when you
           | don't share the passion for the one thing they're stably
           | obsessed with, you won't have enough in common anymore for
           | them to tolerate you.
           | 
           | My lord this cuts deep. Bonus points if you approach your
           | interests in a way that nobody else seems to, leaving you
           | feeling even more disconnected and alone when you're around
           | people who share them.
           | 
           | I've been wrestling with this since (dropping out of) high
           | school, I'm in my early 20s now. I lean towards embracing my
           | idiosyncrasies and letting go of attachment towards getting
           | the kind of social fulfillment I want. Ask me on a different
           | day, though, and the siren's call of having a 'people' is too
           | strong to pass up.
           | 
           | I like to think that learning to just be authentic to myself
           | leads to both in the long run - if I can find a way to be
           | okay with being alone, I'll be in a better place to reach out
           | when the time comes. Still working on the first part of that
           | hypothesis though.
           | 
           | Would you be interested in chatting more about this sometime?
           | Shoot me an email, sheyaway at outlook.
        
         | lanfeust6 wrote:
         | I generally agree but strictly speaking I don't think this was
         | yet another canned "chase-your-dream" speech. She went out of
         | her way to elucidate who this was for, and it's ambitious
         | people that are aimlessly coasting.
         | 
         | When you're young, particularly in tech, taking some swings
         | (like with a startup) and not succeeding isn't a long-term
         | detriment. It's a good experience that can help you land other
         | jobs in the worst case.
         | 
         | Which is to say, not all dream-chasing is created equal. If you
         | want to play music, then you need to do a cost-benefit
         | analysis: you will probably not sustain yourself very long,
         | will probably want a dayjob and/or an out at some point, and
         | this is an opportunity cost vs early career traction. If one's
         | ambition only begins and ends with that, then it won't matter
         | so much if what you end up with is "just a job" with lower
         | income potential. All depends on what you're ok with.
         | 
         | The common anecdote is trying to make the big leagues. But
         | consider another: some elite athletes train for years ahead of
         | the Olympics, and then it's all over and they never do it again
         | (most often). Are they screwed? Well it arguably demonstrates
         | discipline and grit and might look impressive on a resume. The
         | lives of ex-Olympians go on. By the same token, someone who
         | never makes the NBA or whatever can get a scholarship ride
         | anyway (which compared to the cost of lifelong training, might
         | be a small victory).
         | 
         | Sometimes optimizing for the early career/education ladder-
         | jumping isn't the "correct" move. But I think it's important
         | that young people understand what's probably at stake
        
       | davedx wrote:
       | Refreshingly unpretentious and clear. Love it, thank you
        
       | komali2 wrote:
       | That was enjoyable, and I appreciated the overall message. A
       | little bit trickier of a pitch to introverted people, maybe.
       | 
       | One bit though I'm interested in chatting about:
       | 
       | > The truth is there are thousands of different places you could
       | go work, and you have to consider them all and figure out which
       | is the best. But that sounds impossible, right? You only had to
       | choose between 60 different majors, and now you have to choose
       | between thousands of different jobs? How do you even do that? The
       | first step, is to acknowledge that you have to.
       | 
       | Do you really "have" to? I guess we can relatively safely assume
       | that basically 99% of those graduates have essentially the same
       | life goals in terms of financial stability, retirement, etc.
       | Lately though I've wondered about the basically unspoken premise
       | we pitch to our kids from the get-go. I recently found a diary
       | entry from me when I was 7 years old that had a line along the
       | lines of, "I finally figured out what I'm gonna be when I grow
       | up!" I noticed also that so frequently one of the first questions
       | asked at parties or meetups is, "So what do you do for a living?"
       | We really seem to be telling eachother that you go to school and
       | then you do a career and that's how you define yourself, mostly.
       | Differentiate based on hobbies you get to brag about during a
       | "and tell us one interesting fact about yourself" portion of an
       | icebreaker.
       | 
       | I have a friend here that teaches English about 15 hours a week.
       | The rest of his time he spends painting murals on the riverside
       | (unenforced here in Taiwan, graffiti is kinda just considered
       | public art) or drawing people he sees on trains. I asked him why
       | he doesn't take up more hours, he replied that actually he'd work
       | less if he could, but he needs to hit a certain minimum annual
       | income in order to be eligible for permanent residency. Once he
       | gets that, he'll work even less. He's one of the happiest people
       | I know.
       | 
       | I've been wondering if one of the responses to late stage
       | capitalism will be more en-masse opt-outs. There's a recognized
       | class of this in the PRC, called "Lying Flat People," or "Full
       | Time Children," or my favorite, "Rat People." They scrounge
       | together enough cash for a street BBQ and beers, and then spend
       | their day just lounging, drinking, smoking, and bbqing. In Taiwan
       | we have "Moonlight Tribe," people who spend all their money the
       | second they get their paycheck and then live penny to penny until
       | the end of the month. I'm guessing other countries have similar
       | movements - I remember meeting vagabonds (their self-description)
       | in New Orleans that were happily living a "post-capitalism" life.
       | 
       | It's maybe short-sighted since it basically guarantees you will
       | die younger than most, but then again none of us are guaranteed
       | to make it to retirement anyway so I can also respect the choice.
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | You may die younger but is slaving away in an office to make
         | money for someone else for most of your waking hours really
         | _living?_
        
           | bravetraveler wrote:
           | Nope. I keep getting told _" career limiting"_ like that's a
           | bad thing. _I 'm_ good, _it_ keeps wanting more. It mirrors
           | that thing about food: _" eat to live or live to eat"_
           | 
           |  _edit:_ Despite now making 5x my first salary, I _still_
           | feel my situation; less than Serfdom. For the same outcome...
           | there _are_ easier /more rewarding paths.
           | 
           | Under this light, with capital for a house I'll never afford
           | sitting in the bank, less-than-mainstream options start to
           | look more appealing. To borrow a term I've learned in this
           | supposedly-fanciful Up-or-Out corporate life: my _'
           | blockers'_ are legality/morality and... I wasn't born in _[or
           | relocated to /kept in]_ the right ZIP code.
        
           | codingdave wrote:
           | What if you happily work in a low-stress office, enjoying
           | what you do and with whom you do it, and are satisfied with
           | your compensation?
           | 
           | There are definitely healthy middle grounds available as life
           | choices.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | There seem to be a very small chance of changing one's life
       | trajectory after hearing these speeches. As it's difficult to
       | change a persons track they've been on for years. The
       | uncomfortable changes you must enact immediately is difficult.
       | None the less, a small conversion is huge.
        
         | ip26 wrote:
         | One single speech might not do it. However, a short anecdote.
         | Several years ago, while sitting through a training on first
         | aid and cpr on infants, I was bored out of my mind and
         | complaining internally about how this was a waste of time, yet
         | another rehash of common sense. When suddenly it hit me - no,
         | this was not common sense. I had been taught these things
         | repeatedly ever since I was twelve. I didn't retain all of it
         | after the first time, the second, or the third. But eventually,
         | it was just _common sense_ to me. I couldn't always tell you
         | where I learned it, or describe the textbook medical guidance.
         | Why is it done precisely this way, who knows, but _obviously_
         | this exact grip is how you hold the infant while delivering
         | back blows.
        
       | shubhamjain wrote:
       | I wasn't expecting much, and I personally didn't get a lot from
       | the article, but if I was in early 20s, I would've been hugely
       | inspired. Jessica surely has a gift for clear and motivating
       | writing.
        
       | jumploops wrote:
       | As someone who has "reinvented" myself more than once (mostly due
       | to school/job transfers), it seems what wasn't said is equally if
       | not more important.
       | 
       | Rarely can you "find your people" without letting other people
       | go.
       | 
       | The unspoken truth in this article is that it's just as important
       | to be willing to let go of relationships that aren't helping you
       | grow.
       | 
       | Easier said than done.
       | 
       | Whether it's the negative influence of a toxic friend, or the
       | mediocre advice of an overbearing parent (who is just trying to
       | keep you on the rails), other people rarely have your best
       | interests in mind.
       | 
       | Losing the people who aren't "your people" is (usually) a
       | necessary step to finding the right people.
        
         | jll29 wrote:
         | > or the mediocre advice of an overbearing parent
         | 
         | For what it's worth, I teach my students not to listen to their
         | parents, because while most parents want the best for their
         | children, without doubt, their assumptions are typically
         | outdated, and were probably already wrong when they were young.
        
           | ip26 wrote:
           | As categorical guidance, that seems like a problematic thing
           | to teach. First, parents don't know everything, but they know
           | their kids and have witnessed their journey, so they have a
           | unique perspective to offer. Second, parents will begin to
           | (justifiably!!) grow suspicious of your institution and
           | develop resentment, which is a serious structural problem.
           | 
           | Hopefully what you mean is something like you teach them to
           | think critically about their parents advice as one input
           | among many, understanding where the advice comes from and its
           | inherent strengths and flaws.
        
           | bkeyes wrote:
           | For what it's worth, I teach my children not to listen to
           | their teachers, because while most teachers want the best for
           | their students, without doubt, their assumptions are
           | typically outdated, and were probably already wrong when they
           | were young.
        
         | jll29 wrote:
         | As Kermit the Frog in his Maryland commencement speech said,
         | Jim Henson took people for "what they are":
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/live/hLFa8zGeotI?feature=shared&t=74...
         | 
         | Do NOT "fake it until you make it". Be yourself. And find
         | people who accept you as you are.
        
           | lanfeust6 wrote:
           | This is semantic baggage to me. Identity is best loosely
           | held, and it's mostly determined by our actions. There's no
           | real faking, just acting in accordance to, or against, one's
           | preferences.
           | 
           | Colloquially when people use the term "fake it till you make
           | it" they don't really mean "pretend to be a different
           | person". They just mean act in the face of uncertainty. You
           | can do it with or without undeserved confidence, it's
           | besides.
        
       | qntty wrote:
       | I like the subway analogy. I'm sure I've heard some version of it
       | before, but maybe because I was younger I didn't really get it.
       | It really is a little strange to tell kids who have never really
       | directed their own lives before to start doing it all of a
       | sudden.
        
         | ryukafalz wrote:
         | There is a bit of a transition period; you have a lot more
         | choice about what classes you're going to take in college than
         | prior to that for example, and you're to a large degree
         | choosing your own path there. But graduating is still the end
         | of a structured path that you've been in nearly your whole
         | life, so I think it's always going to feel pretty abrupt
         | subjectively despite the fact that you have been acclimated a
         | little bit over time.
        
       | svilen_dobrev wrote:
       | dejavu :) Here something i told my mentees 4 years ago:
       | 
       | searching for answers.. does not make life interesting.
       | 
       | search questions.. then You become interesting.
       | 
       | and inconvenient. To the answer-manufacturers. (whole industries
       | and institutions are dealing with only that)
       | 
       | which.. by itself.. IS interesting.
       | 
       | Most people are either answers - pretty boring - or not even
       | answers.. only nondescript. banal.
       | 
       | incredibly predictable and.. like nylon bag, you see through it
       | but cannot get through.
       | 
       | Search for people-questions.
       | 
       | Search.
       | 
       | ----
       | 
       | Maybe it can help someone else too..
        
       | ariztocray wrote:
       | Underrated impact of good networking is that it increases the
       | expectations you have for yourself and the potential you ascribe
       | to yourself.
       | 
       | My first job after finishing college was in a factory. After many
       | more years of drifting, I finally had the dumb luck to start
       | encountering people doing intellectually engaging things and
       | actually making good money.
       | 
       | When I started surrounding myself with those individuals, I
       | started realizing I was underselling my capabilities. And I
       | started having higher expectations of what I wanted to achieve in
       | specific domains.
       | 
       | I am definitely not successful by the standards of the corporate
       | world, but I've superseded what my prospects should have been
       | based on my track record in my 20's. And almost all of that
       | started by rubbing shoulders with people in stages of life that I
       | never considered before.
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | The talk is suitable for the target audience, the young
       | undecided.
       | 
       | For the rest of us, especially here at HN, it would have been
       | interesting to learn a bit more about how she got to that
       | Fidelity job first and how she then "drifted" towards "her
       | people", namely the startup people, and then the book and Y
       | Combinator in specific. Some Y combinator early anecdotes would
       | have been great, too.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | > The first step is to realize that the subway stops here. Up to
       | this point in life, most of you have been rolling on train
       | tracks. Elementary school, middle school, high school, college--
       | it was always clear what the next stop was. In the process you've
       | been trained to believe something that's not true: that all of
       | life is train tracks. And there are some jobs where you can make
       | it stay like train tracks if you want, but really today is the
       | last stop.
       | 
       | Well put!
       | 
       | This is something _so many_ college kids don't seem to
       | understand. I had many friends who graduated then just stood
       | around looking for where to go next. It hadn't come up in
       | discussions but it became apparent they were surprised by the
       | sudden end to the "tracks" while the students who saw them coming
       | (or were told better/more often) all were befuddled, "How did you
       | not see this coming?", "Did you expect someone to just walk up
       | and offer you a job?", "You have never even interned in your
       | field??".
       | 
       | I don't blame the kids, they don't know any better. They've spent
       | their whole life focusing on the next goal, I talked about this
       | specifically (in blog post) when I dropped out of college to go
       | full-time into my profession. For me, learning "there are no
       | tracks" and more importantly "you don't need to go to the end of
       | the college track before you decide next steps" was freeing and
       | empowering while also being a bit terrifying.
        
         | parpfish wrote:
         | i think its interesting that for so many college kids, the
         | post-graduation options that continue to provide tracks are
         | _also_ treated as the more  "prestigious" options (go to grad
         | school. work at big3/faang, etc).
         | 
         | it's not because they are any more prestigious or important,
         | but because they provide a clear sense of achievement/external
         | validation and kids that make it to the end of college are kids
         | that have had decades of achievement/external validation being
         | their primary measure of success.
         | 
         | and because of that, those places do an amazing job recruiting.
         | i remember toward the end of my undergrad days there was huge
         | sense of competition to get a "teach for america" position,
         | even among folks with no interest in education. it was
         | appealing simply because it was selective and provided a clear
         | framework for 'next steps'.
        
           | RealityVoid wrote:
           | The flipside is that going off the tracks, you need to decide
           | where you're going and you might get lost. Some people try to
           | do something and then waste a lot of time just spinning their
           | wheels. For them, some structure and some tracks might be
           | necessary.
           | 
           | I guess we all need some amount of scaffolding in our life,
           | at one point or another.
        
           | cj wrote:
           | I don't see why that can't be replicated in vocational
           | trades.
           | 
           | Main challenge there is you don't have a plumbing/electrical
           | conglomerate like you have in tech to standardize recruiting.
        
           | mitthrowaway2 wrote:
           | I heard that quant finance companies target high-achievers by
           | creating a sense of continuing tracks: recruiting based on
           | high GPAs, an application process with a high-profile
           | entrance exam, and so on. It creates an impression among
           | their target group that such a company is where they "should"
           | go to work, because it's at the top.
        
           | diego_sandoval wrote:
           | > the post-graduation options that continue to provide tracks
           | are also treated as the more "prestigious" options (go to
           | grad school. work at big3/faang, etc).
           | 
           | I think it's the other way around: the more prestigious
           | option becomes the track.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | > the post-graduation options that continue to provide tracks
           | are also treated as the more "prestigious" options (go to
           | grad school. work at big3/faang, etc).
           | 
           | Graduate school is a mixed bag when it comes to prestige.
           | It's fairly well known that grad student lifestyle is a
           | grind, highly competitive, and a financial sacrifice. You go
           | into it for a love of academics, not as a default next step.
           | 
           | As for prestigious jobs like FAANG: I think you're
           | downplaying the extreme compensation offered by many of these
           | jobs. It's not just about prestige, it's about unlocking a
           | level of wealth that is hard to ignore. It delivers on the
           | dream people have when they imagine a university education
           | unlocking incredible career options.
        
         | levocardia wrote:
         | Interesting, too, how many institutions are very willing to
         | jump in and put you back on an endless subway train. e.g.
         | graduate school, postdoc, junior faculty, assistant professor,
         | full professor...the ride never ends!
        
         | brulard wrote:
         | I think it is easier and more obvious for kids from poorer
         | families to figure it out they need to look around and try hard
         | to earn some money. Do you need a laptop? Well you better earn
         | some money to get one. Kids that get everything provided by
         | parents often end up hopelessly lost when time to become
         | independent comes.
        
         | therein wrote:
         | Very true and a good social circle consisting of people with
         | ambitions and aspirations helps too. I remember back when we
         | were in college, freshman year we formed a circle of some sort
         | and moved to apartments next to each other for the sophomore
         | year. My roommate in this setup out of the blue got an
         | internship at a big company in the Bay Area, surprised all of
         | us in this group. He was getting paid a really large amount per
         | hour and at that point we didn't even know this was possible.
         | That made us all realize that this is a thing and the job fairs
         | from that point on weren't going to be bullshit like other
         | events before. People were coming in with actual intent to
         | hire, and were ready to pay interns a lot of money. And we saw
         | once these people made friends in these internships and
         | demonstrated themselves, they got hired through internal
         | priority queues. We did the same, applied to places,
         | interviewed, got flown for in person interviews. Got
         | internships, and then those turned into full time offers.
         | Everyone in my friend group had an internship from a well known
         | company and had offers by the time they were graduating.
         | 
         | And then there was the other kind. It's not like we didn't
         | enjoy our college days or go out to party more than we should.
         | It's not like we studied extra. It was just this one guy in our
         | friend group that did what he did, we saw what he did and got
         | the message it was time and anything after that would be
         | unnecessarily risking it.
        
         | orthecreedence wrote:
         | > I don't blame the kids, they don't know any better. They've
         | spent their whole life focusing on the next goal.
         | 
         | No, they spent their whole lives being sheltered. Let's call it
         | what it is. These people were on tracks because they were put
         | on tracks from a young age and told that the track leads
         | somewhere, and any questioning of the tracks was often met with
         | a harsh rebuke. They didn't play outside with the neighborhood
         | kids, they were at soccer practice. They didn't get a summer
         | job at a shitty fast food joint, they were doing summer school
         | or learning piano. Everything they've done from start to finish
         | has been curated. Of course when the track ends abruptly it's
         | catastrophic.
         | 
         | Independence, curiosity, and self-quesitoning and awareness are
         | often not taught because "getting ahead" is more important.
        
           | riehwvfbk wrote:
           | Those other things you mention are also "tracks". Getting a
           | shitty fast food job is done not due to any kind of
           | aspiration but simply because it's the default thing to do.
           | 
           | Imagine not being able to get a shitty fast food job because
           | you are disabled. Or just moved to the US and speak too weird
           | and don't have anyone to vouch for you.
           | 
           | Ditto for hanging out with the neighborhood kids. This
           | assumes that you are one of them, and not a victim/target for
           | them.
        
             | orthecreedence wrote:
             | What a strange response. Anything is a track if you only do
             | that one thing. The point is that having diverse life
             | experiences that challenge you make you a much more well-
             | rounded person that can adapt and handle difficult
             | situations.
        
               | riehwvfbk wrote:
               | Well, I think people like you are strange: how weird
               | would it be to go through life assuming that everyone
               | thinks the same way as you!
               | 
               | How is working at McD's more "diverse" than playing
               | soccer, or even tinkering with a computer at home? It's
               | only "better" in a very specific value system, that of
               | the American lower middle class
               | 
               | Or put differently: the cliche thing that every teenager
               | does in every American movie is "diverse"? How?
        
             | Aurornis wrote:
             | > Getting a shitty fast food job is done not due to any
             | kind of aspiration but simply because it's the default
             | thing to do.
             | 
             | This is the kind of "tracks" I'm most familiar with:
             | Especially in small towns where ideas like individual
             | freedoms, bucking the trend, and turning your nose up at
             | higher education are common, you don't see it translating
             | to a lot of success in life. You see it trapping people in
             | cycles of poverty and dead-end jobs.
        
           | Aurornis wrote:
           | I think you're assuming way too much.
           | 
           | From my observations, having low parental involvement and
           | excessively unstructured upbringing doesn't automatically
           | produce determined and self-directed adults. From my
           | familiarity with several small towns, I would actually say it
           | does the opposite. I can think of many people I knew as a kid
           | who ended up stuck in small towns at dead-end jobs simply
           | because inertia was the only thing they knew. Nobody ever
           | jumped into their lives to push them to try different things
           | or explore paths that weren't sitting right in front of them.
        
         | pulkitsh1234 wrote:
         | The first bit is too similar to what a typical college kid
         | would go through in India.
         | 
         | My assumption was that this would NOT be the case in the USA.
         | You hear about kids dropping out and starting startups, or
         | people just skipping college to work on what they like, or kids
         | joining trade schools to get into welding.
         | 
         | Isn't this the norm in the USA / most of the developed world ??
         | Your comment confirms the same thing.. you dropped out..That's
         | all I read and see everywhere about America, that you are free
         | to take decisions like this (and often encouraged)
         | 
         | It feels odd to think to that kids in the USA are on a somewhat
         | fixed train track, when there are so many opportunities +
         | freedom + less judgement overall in the society.
        
           | jaggederest wrote:
           | It's a relatively small percentage that want to do something
           | outside the norm, and it does not go very well for a lot of
           | them. There's a lot of survivor's bias in hearing about
           | dropouts.
        
           | jmtulloss wrote:
           | The kids that fall into this bucket talk about it a lot (when
           | they're successful). The vast majority of successful people
           | in America (for some definition of success) did not drop out,
           | and the vast majority of drop outs do not find this type of
           | mainstream success.
           | 
           | This is not to say that dropouts without that kind of success
           | aren't happy. I do believe that America does afford a lot of
           | leeway for people to be happy and comfortable in non-
           | traditional life paths. They're just not the ones being
           | discussed din this comment.
        
         | EGreg wrote:
         | The Full Time Employment crowd is the people who continue the
         | tracks.
         | 
         | Chilling by the watercooler, being paid for 8 hours a day with
         | health insurance etc. while working 2 hours a day and/or
         | bitching about your job. Or just enjoying life after work.
         | 
         | These people would be as much at home in Soviet Russia as they
         | would in today's USA. They want more security. The EU has
         | become the new USSR for this. Lots of protections.
         | 
         | It's what people want. They don't actually want the AI
         | disruption. But it's coming because their employers don't care
         | what they want.
         | 
         | However if you claim to love capitalism and hate socialism, or
         | whatever, then get a taste of it. Go hunting in the market for
         | clients. Go spar and learn sales skills. Build your own company
         | and service your own clients.
         | 
         | Or let the employer do it for you. But then you are just like a
         | renter, not an owner -- except on the supply side of the
         | economy. And they may rent your time... for now.
         | 
         | The "American Dream" btw has become about renting money from
         | banks -- to finish college, to pay the mortgage on that house,
         | etc. But the cost of all of it has gone up much more than your
         | grandparents. It is just indentured servitude with a choice of
         | landlords. At the end of the day, they want you to rent the
         | money from banks to create demand for the money, so you can
         | work for 30 years and pay it off. But the AI will break even
         | that social contract.
         | 
         | Jobs will be going down
         | 
         | Entrepreurship will be going up
         | 
         | Find your people. And in the sense of getting a team of loyal
         | badasses together. Build something new. Use AI. Don't let your
         | employer tell you how to use AI or use it to replace you.
        
         | rufus_foreman wrote:
         | So I graduate, I call him up long distance, I say "Dad, now
         | what?" He says, "Get a job."
         | 
         | Now I'm 25, make my yearly call again. I say Dad, "Now what?"
         | He says, "I don't know, get married."
        
       | nathan_compton wrote:
       | "Which leads me to my final point about getting ambitious plans:
       | you have to be immune to rejection. People are going to dismiss
       | you at first. If that's enough to stop you, you're doomed. So you
       | have to learn to ignore it. And that's harder than it sounds--
       | social pressure is so powerful. But everyone who does ambitious
       | things has to learn how to resist it."
       | 
       | Lots of people who learn to do this cause lots of chaos and
       | destruction in their wake. I don't care if you need this attitude
       | to be a founder, it still sucks.
       | 
       | I worked at a startup where the technical founder had this
       | attitude and was, at least with respect to the product at hand,
       | totally incompetent and it was truly catastrophically absurd and
       | stressful and a huge waste of tons of people's time and money.
        
         | mjr00 wrote:
         | > Lots of people who learn to do this cause lots of chaos and
         | destruction in their wake.
         | 
         | At the same time, lots of people who do this end up being
         | extremely successful.
         | 
         | The difficulty is knowing _which_ rejection and criticism to
         | ignore. Imagine losing out on a multi-billion dollar business
         | because your initial pitch was dismissed by people saying your
         | business is pointless and redundant because rsync already
         | exists[0].
         | 
         | On the flip side, there's a lot of founders who... have more
         | determination than experience, let's say, and when told their
         | idea won't work, instead of using factual data points (or
         | getting an MVP out to collect data points) operate purely on
         | belief until they run out of money.
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8863
        
           | nathan_compton wrote:
           | "Each time you have to make a decision, make the right one"
           | would be what I would say in a commencement speech. Truly
           | sage advice.
        
             | mjr00 wrote:
             | > "Each time you have to make a decision, make the right
             | one" would be what I would say in a commencement speech.
             | Truly sage advice.
             | 
             | It honestly is great advice. Most (useful) business advice
             | I've seen amounts to "how to make better decisions". This
             | includes things like doing market research or a business
             | model canvas (to make better decisions about your
             | customers), releasing MVPs quickly to test the market (to
             | make better decisions around product and pricing), picking
             | which metrics and data points to measure (so that you can
             | evaluate if your decision was actually correct and quickly
             | course correct if not), etc.
        
               | plasticchris wrote:
               | Each time you have to make a decision, measure.
        
           | wapeoifjaweofji wrote:
           | > end up being extremely successful
           | 
           | At making money, likely true. Leaving a trail of destruction
           | in your wake is just not my idea of success.
        
         | lubujackson wrote:
         | "Immune to rejection" and "consider all criticism" are both
         | useful but much, much harder than doing one or the other
         | reliably. Lots of assholes are immune to rejection and a lot of
         | doormats consider all criticism. Doing both means you keep your
         | ears open but are resolute (and maybe delusional) about a few
         | core ideals. And maybe even those change with criticism.
         | 
         | There is a reason you see lots of asshole business owners and
         | not many doormats, though - you need to filter criticism or it
         | will always screw you up in the end. Accepting criticism can
         | help you course-correct and produce better/happier, but isn't a
         | requirement for success.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Finding your people a theme in Kermit the Frog's speech over at
       | UMD
       | 
       | https://apnews.com/article/kermit-frog-university-of-marylan...
       | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44075293)
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | How much of that is hindsight? Was she drawn to Y-combinator or
       | did she drift into it like she did Fidelity? Recognizing it was
       | the right people and the right thing obviously happened, I'm just
       | questioning when she actually knew that.
        
         | alwa wrote:
         | She co-founded it, didn't she? Created it to operationalize her
         | ideas, which, from the sound of her speech, confused people
         | around her at the time? Or am I misunderstanding what you're
         | asking?
         | 
         | > _When we started Y Combinator, everyone treated it as a joke.
         | We were funding kids right out of college and only giving them
         | small amounts of money. How could these startups ever succeed?
         | Now everyone knows it 's a good idea to fund young founders,
         | but twenty years ago, it just seemed lame. But we didn't care
         | what people thought of us. We knew we were onto something. In
         | fact it was good that we seemed lame, because that meant it
         | took several years before people started to copy us._
        
         | harrall wrote:
         | I don't know about her but when I found what I really actually
         | liked, I looked forward it every day, no matter what challenge
         | it gave me.
         | 
         | And it's still the same excitement every day 5, 10, etc. years
         | later.
         | 
         | I suppose I'm saying is that when you find it, you know.
        
       | jxjnskkzxxhx wrote:
       | Hmm ok. What she's arguing for is "fake it till you make it".
       | Think about it, the first thing this person did when she started
       | steering, was write a book about startups even though by her own
       | admission she didn't know anything about startups.
       | 
       | I liked the rails/steering advise, disliked the fake it till you
       | make it advice.
        
       | 1oooqooq wrote:
       | Kudos jessica. You are still the same unstoppable machine from
       | long ago. Even now you are selling and recruiting, and even
       | passed all opportunity to gloat. all business.
        
       | mclau157 wrote:
       | Tangential to this but why does there seem to be a correlation
       | between rock climbing gyms and tech oriented people?
        
         | macintux wrote:
         | I have no idea, but personally after 30 years of IT work, I
         | definitely regret not finding _something_ to strengthen my
         | hands. They 're barely useful for anything besides typing, and
         | often not even that.
        
         | AaronAPU wrote:
         | I don't know, but I've made a specific effort not to rock climb
         | because I felt it may cause long term hand related injuries
         | which could impact my ability to work.
         | 
         | Not even sure how well founded that fear is, but I would
         | otherwise love to do rock climbing.
        
           | mclau157 wrote:
           | I believe the hand injuries would be most felt if you were
           | climbing very difficult "crimpy" climbs multiple times a week
           | without enough rest, these are the climbs where you really
           | put stress on tiny individual parts of the fingers to grip
           | onto very tiny holds, otherwise "juggy" climbing where you
           | can grab onto a hold with a large portion of your hand uses
           | more shoulder and back muscles which can get fatigued but
           | definitely not as damaged as tiny individual parts of the
           | fingers
        
       | whall6 wrote:
       | Unrelated to tech, but I wonder if this is why so many people
       | seek the IB to PE to HF route that seems so well trod. They just
       | need rails that point them to the next stop.
        
         | 65 wrote:
         | Care to explain what IB, PE, and HF mean?
        
           | apsurd wrote:
           | investment banking, private equity, hedge fund. I think
        
           | netvarun wrote:
           | I think they refer to: IB - investment banking PE - private
           | equity HF - hedge funds or High Frequency trading (?)
        
           | pokemyiout wrote:
           | IB: Investment Banking PE: Private Equity HF: Hedge Fund
        
       | throe73848484 wrote:
       | > So I'm going to tell you about a trick you can pull right here
       | at the point where the train tracks end. You can reinvent
       | yourself. I wish I'd known I could do that. I was lazy in college
       | and got bad grades
       | 
       | I googled study fees for that university. $69000 per year plus
       | expenses for accommodation, food and books.
       | 
       | After you finish such school, you should be top level motivated
       | professional with highly lucrative job lined up. If you drop
       | quarter of million dollars for paper, just to discover at end you
       | need to "reinvent yourself", you are probably highly highly
       | privileged person, or just not so smart.
       | 
       | 18 years old kids need to hear this speech. Not students before
       | graduation!
        
         | charlie0 wrote:
         | The main "trick" here was moving to where the next center of
         | power was going to be and meeting the right people through hard
         | work (but really the main differentiator) sheer luck.
        
       | pluto_modadic wrote:
       | If I could downvote a post, this would be it.
        
       | lucasfcosta wrote:
       | Thanks for writing this, Jessica.
       | 
       | This is a great paragraph:
       | 
       | > If you want to, you can just decide to shift gears at this
       | point, and no one's going to tell you you can't. You can just
       | decide to be more curious, or more responsible, or more
       | energetic, and no one's going to go look up your college grades
       | and say, "Hey, wait a minute, this person's supposed to be a
       | slacker."
       | 
       | I've often seen people get too attached to an unproductive
       | "identity" instead of looking at things as they are. It's way too
       | common for people to fail once and think they're a failure,
       | rather than thinking that they just failed at that particular
       | time.
       | 
       | By the way, I remember meeting you during the S23 batch and how
       | genuinely excited you were to meet us, young founders who were
       | just getting started. It does seem like you found your people!
        
       | jackphilson wrote:
       | Right. I feel like cultural fit is very important. You need to
       | find the community you're most aligned with (share same memetic
       | space) and go to them. This is why I think network states will
       | succeed
        
         | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
         | I suspect very strongly that we live in a "post-community"
         | world. There are no communities, and haven't been for a very
         | long time, likely since before your grandparents were in their
         | prime. We have any number of entities that function as
         | surrogate communities, but without the benefits the real thing
         | would provide. Quite often though, they have many of the
         | disadvtanges of those, plus a few extra.
         | 
         | The community you're most aligned with, that you rush into
         | hoping to feel as if you fit in, it might be more like an
         | angler fish just waiting for you to jump into its jaws.
        
           | jackphilson wrote:
           | Well, we have it mildly solved on the internet layer
           | (hackernews). Issue is these bonds aren't very strong because
           | they're not supported by physical space (can't use
           | evolutionary hardwiring). This is why I think network states
           | are good because they're a projection of community on the
           | internet layer onto the physical layer. I think community is
           | very important, and the world will tend more and more towards
           | happiness (generally speaking), so the resurgence of
           | community living I think is inevitable. I think the
           | atomization is a temporary blip caused by increased
           | convenience (tiktok, amazon).
           | 
           | I think the characterization of a community as an angler fish
           | has some merit but might be a little pessimistic. In any
           | case, it's way better than interacting with people who you
           | know are definitely not your community.
        
       | farahkh wrote:
       | "And if you find yourself working at a place where you don't like
       | the people, get out"
        
       | joshdavham wrote:
       | > Up to this point in life, most of you have been rolling on
       | train tracks. Elementary school, middle school, high school,
       | college [...] And there are some jobs where you can make it stay
       | like train tracks if you want
       | 
       | I've never envied the people who graduate college and then
       | immediately go to work at big tech companies where they start off
       | as an "SDE 1", then "SDE 2", then Mid level, senior, staff,
       | principal, etc. There's definitely more security and stability in
       | that, but I think these people are also missing out on a lot.
        
         | coolcase wrote:
         | Startups might be the new SDE1 while trying to do stuff outside
         | of capitalism might be the new startup.
         | 
         | Not in terms of financial reward of course. But in terms of
         | rewarding career off the beaten path.
         | 
         | Personally while I want to do a startup I am finding the boring
         | path you mention quite fascinating!
        
         | epolanski wrote:
         | Every time I'm assisting those Ama/MS/Apple labels for their
         | rate race I want to cringe so hard to be honest.
        
       | neilv wrote:
       | Final sentence:
       | 
       | > _Find the interesting people._
       | 
       | Note that this isn't advice for everyone. Go back to earlier in
       | the piece:
       | 
       | > _But in the middle, there 's a group who wish they had
       | ambitious plans, but don't. This speech is for you. I'm going to
       | tell you how to get ambitious plans._
       | 
       | The "Find Your People" of the title is the more general advice,
       | for a larger audience.
       | 
       | Your people might well be a quiet small town environment that's
       | doing OK economically, has good school(s) for children, people
       | are neighborly and supportive, not a lot of inequity and all that
       | follows, etc.
       | 
       | You might not think of that as interesting, at least not in the
       | abstract, but it might be your people.
       | 
       | For myself, who seems to be a natural startup person (maybe
       | including a little bit of both Swartz and Altman), I've been
       | thinking that I'm most likely to find a concentration of my
       | people in a town with a good liberal arts college, intermixed
       | with economically OK non-college people, and easily accessible to
       | a major metro area -- without feeling cut off too much from
       | activity and opportunity, and with having a regular infusion of a
       | little freshness/change.
       | 
       | (I'm not convinced that Cambridge/Boston, San Francisco, or NYC
       | can be that place, long-term, unless you have enough money to
       | insulate yourself from the VHCOLA downsides. And then maybe you
       | end up mostly only associating with people who also have enough
       | money to be sufficiently insulated, which isn't the complete
       | breakfast.)
        
       | tosh wrote:
       | agency! very timely
        
       | famahar wrote:
       | If your country allows it and you can afford it, I recommend
       | every graduate to do a working holidays visa in another country.
       | Embed yourself in the community. Volunteer, work odd jobs,
       | practice art , learn a language. You'll find what you
       | unexpectedly love and hate during that time. Following the tracks
       | of life and getting a career out of college sounds safe and
       | comfy, but you'll be surprised what new joys life can throw at
       | you when you go off the beaten path a bit.
        
       | agcat wrote:
       | such a timely advice
        
       | andrewstetsenko wrote:
       | Such a wake-up call to take ownership of your direction, rather
       | than waiting for the next "station" to appear.
        
       | compumike wrote:
       | > This fact is so terrifying that a lot of people try to remain
       | in denial about it.
       | 
       | I remember talking as college seniors about how: for two decades
       | there's always been some near-future end-of-school-term date that
       | we're all marching together toward, and isn't it so strange that
       | the whole cycle is about to disappear?                   if
       | next_end_date.nil?           # ?!? FIXME         end
       | 
       | Some rhythm of starting and efforting and finishing and relaxing,
       | before starting the next cycle.
       | 
       | Of course it's somewhat possible to join new calendar cycles. A
       | two-week engineering sprint. Even YC's batch concept recreates
       | this for a few months, to great effect! But not the same.
       | 
       | But for the most part, when the calendar rhythm is no longer the
       | source of medium-term stability and inspiration and motivation, I
       | think this makes a good point that the people you surround
       | yourself with can be. If not, what else?
       | 
       | Thank you, Jessica.
        
       | jamesgill wrote:
       | It's great advice. Reminds me of Steve Jobs' statement:
       | 
       |  _When you grow up you tend to get told the world is the way it
       | is and you're life is just to live your life inside the world.
       | Try not to bash into the walls too much. Try to have a nice
       | family, have fun, save a little money. That's a very limited
       | life._
       | 
       |  _Life can be much broader once you discover one simple fact:
       | Everything around you that you call life was made up by people
       | that were no smarter than you. And you can change it, you can
       | influence it, you can build your own things that other people can
       | use. Once you learn that, you'll never be the same again._
        
       | dowager_dan99 wrote:
       | I went to my daughter's (high school) graduation yesterday. The
       | speeches were uniformly weak except for the school trustee, who's
       | job is basically campaigning or speaking at graduation
       | ceremonies. Part of it was a graduate talking to his former
       | principal at the 25-yr reunion: says the alumnus: "...and I've
       | tried to live my life by the advice you gave to me that day."
       | "Can you refresh my memory?" asks the principal. "You said to me
       | 'keep moving! keep moving!'"
        
       | gilbetron wrote:
       | > You fall into three groups
       | 
       | She lost me at that statement. I hate these kind of reductive
       | statements that are presented as a thoughtful statement. There
       | are vastly more than three groups in that audience (granted, it
       | is self-selected elite University, so the number of groups is
       | still constrained comparatively).
        
         | rufus_foreman wrote:
         | She mentions "want ambitious plans, have ambitious plans",
         | "don't want ambitious plans, don't have ambitious plans" and
         | "want ambitious plans, don't have ambitious plans".
         | 
         | What are the vast number of groups outside of that set? Of
         | course there's "have ambitious plans, don't want ambitious
         | plans", which would probably be more interesting than the other
         | three, but what are the other missing groups?
        
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