[HN Gopher] Possible new dwarf planet found in our solar system
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Possible new dwarf planet found in our solar system
        
       Author : ddahlen
       Score  : 148 points
       Date   : 2025-05-21 18:32 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.minorplanetcenter.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.minorplanetcenter.net)
        
       | ddahlen wrote:
       | The minor planet center is the clearing house of observations of
       | objects in our solar system. They have announced a new dwarf
       | planet today.
       | 
       | This object appears to be in a very eccentric orbit (0.948), and
       | with an H magnitude of 3.55, so it is likely hundreds of km in
       | diameter. Ceres for reference has a H magnitude of 3.33 (smaller
       | H is bigger diameter).
       | 
       | If you want to know what H means:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_magnitude#Solar_Syste...
        
         | gus_massa wrote:
         | > _hundreds of km_
         | 
         | How big is that compared with other dwarf planets/ Moons? If
         | you sort all dwarf planets by size, which position does this
         | take (approximately)?
         | 
         | Pluto -> 2300 Km
         | 
         | Ceres -> 950 Km
         | 
         | Fobos(Mars) -> 25 Km
        
           | ddahlen wrote:
           | Depends on the albedo, if the H magnitude is a good
           | measurement, then it is probably between 300-700km. These are
           | rough bounds, its highly dependent on how reflective it's
           | surface is (albedo).
           | 
           | With an orbit somewhere around 28k years, it reached
           | perihelion in about 1931, at 45 au from the Sun.
        
             | kbelder wrote:
             | So it's roughly in the closest 200-year period out of
             | 28,000 years. That means it spends 99.3% of it's orbit
             | further away than now, and thus harder to find.
             | 
             | Simplistic odds would seem to imply that there's over a
             | hundred more dwarf planets just like this but further away,
             | so we just haven't seen them.
        
               | hnuser123456 wrote:
               | I really hope we can get some more sensitive and wider
               | telescopes to look deeper into the Oort cloud. At those
               | distances, sunlight is comparable to a full moon or less,
               | surface temperatures are only tens of kelvin. And yet
               | they're still less than 1% of the distance to the next
               | star.
        
             | gus_massa wrote:
             | [I'm lost with all the recent discoveries.]
             | 
             | Assuming 500Km, is in in the top 10 by size/mass[1][2]? Top
             | 100? Top 1000? Top 1000000?
             | 
             | [1] Yes I know it's not the same. Whatever criteria is
             | easier to measure.
             | 
             | [2] I guess not top 10, but I have no idea about the
             | current knowledge of the long tail. Fake Edit: I took a
             | look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_possible_dwar
             | f_planets So between 20 and 30???
        
             | liamwire wrote:
             | Your comment was the one that really made all of this sink
             | in, thanks. Wow.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | This thread is making me realize that The Expanse has me
           | pronouncing planetoids in Belter.
        
             | temp0826 wrote:
             | Beltalowda!
        
         | bediger4000 wrote:
         | Does the 0.984 eccentricity orbit imply anything? That's close
         | to eccentricity of 1, which is a parabolic path, not
         | gravitationally bound to the sun.
        
           | hnuser123456 wrote:
           | Going off the SMA and eccentricity, part of its orbit is
           | "relatively" close to the sun, ~ 45 AU, about 1.5x the
           | distance to Neptune (~ 30 AU), and the other half of its
           | orbit is very, very far away, ~ 1700 AU, over 50 times the
           | distance to Neptune, but still less than 1% of the distance
           | to the next star.
           | 
           | When it's in the faraway part of its orbit, it is moving very
           | slowly, probably only tens of meters per second, but it's
           | still close enough to the sun to eventually fall back in for
           | another loop.
           | 
           | However, if something else dense enough got close enough out
           | there, it would be easily perturbed and have its whole orbit
           | altered, or even be ejected.
           | 
           | But interstellar space is pretty void of wandering solid
           | bodies, so it keeps falling back towards the sun.
        
             | SJC_Hacker wrote:
             | > But interstellar space is pretty void of wandering solid
             | bodies, so it keeps falling back towards the sun.
             | 
             | As far as we know ... we don't know how many rogue planets
             | are out there ... mayb be as numerous as the number of
             | stars or even greater
        
               | hnuser123456 wrote:
               | After I posted that, I did some more research to see how
               | typical it is, over longer time periods, that our nearest
               | star is about 4 ly away. That seems to be about average
               | spacing for our part of the galaxy, but it turns out in a
               | little over a million years, a star about half the size
               | of the sun will pass around 0.15 ly away or 10,000 AU,
               | which is far outside the kuiper belt, but solidly though
               | the middle of the inner oort cloud, and will leave a wake
               | of scattered comets and asteroids, some of which will
               | rain down on Earth.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_710
        
               | bediger4000 wrote:
               | Nice! I was hoping for a nearly parabolic orbit to mean
               | this was an interstellar object captured by the sun's
               | gravity.
        
         | evil-olive wrote:
         | > This object appears to be in a very eccentric orbit (0.948)
         | 
         | from [0]:
         | 
         | > Before its demotion from planet status in 2006, Pluto was
         | considered to be the planet with the most eccentric orbit (e =
         | 0.248). Other Trans-Neptunian objects have significant
         | eccentricity, notably the dwarf planet Eris (0.44). Even
         | further out, Sedna has an extremely-high eccentricity of 0.855
         | due to its estimated aphelion of 937 AU and perihelion of about
         | 76 AU
         | 
         | > ...
         | 
         | > Comets have very different values of eccentricities. Periodic
         | comets have eccentricities mostly between 0.2 and 0.7, but some
         | of them have highly eccentric elliptical orbits with
         | eccentricities just below 1; for example, Halley's Comet has a
         | value of 0.967
         | 
         | so possibly an ignorant question, as someone who's interested
         | in astronomy but doesn't follow it very closely - when this is
         | categorized as a dwarf planet, does that include "it might be a
         | comet" as a possibility? or have they already ruled it out as a
         | possible comet through other observations?
         | 
         | 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_eccentricity#Examples
        
           | mandevil wrote:
           | Dwarf planet versus comet/asteroid hinges on mass, basically
           | its "enough mass to be roughly round" (technically it's
           | called "hydrostatic equilibrium").
           | 
           | Back from the 1810's to the 1870's or so, most people
           | considered Ceres, Vesta, and things like that to be planets-
           | they were bodies that wandered around the solar system, that
           | meant they were planets. When the numbers started to get into
           | the 20's, everyone decided to create a new category,
           | "asteroid" (Greek for 'star-like') and put all of the smaller
           | things in that. So when Pluto was discovered in 1930 it was
           | slotted right into the planet category. Pluto was discovered
           | mostly by accident, because Clyde Tombaugh was amazing at
           | working the blink comparator, and finding the one dot that
           | moved in between the two pictures of the night sky a few days
           | apart.
           | 
           | However, by the 1990's and 2000's you had computers and
           | digital cameras, which are even better than Clyde at finding
           | things that move, and quickly the number of planets started
           | to go up- and it was clear that once we had thoroughly mapped
           | the ~~Oort Cloud~~ (meant Kuiper Belt, see below) etc. we
           | would have dozens of planets. And so once again astronomers
           | decided to create a new category, just like they had with
           | asteroids a century earlier. This time they drew the line in
           | such a way that Ceres got moved from asteroid to dwarf
           | planet- it has enough mass to be roughly round, so after over
           | a century of being an asteroid it became a dwarf planet.
           | 
           | This is how things always work in science: we discover
           | something, then we discover more of them, and re-categorize
           | everything based on the new discoveries. It's just more
           | noticeable with Pluto because reciting the planets is done by
           | every schoolkid in a way that they don't for subatomic
           | particles or for species of voles or whatever.
        
             | epicureanideal wrote:
             | Very informative, thank you!
        
             | AStonesThrow wrote:
             | > thoroughly mapped the Oort Cloud
             | 
             | So it's interesting that the Oort Cloud is often mentioned
             | as a real thing. Surely there are plenty of bodies
             | discovered which are orthogonal to its existence, but
             | Oort's "Cloud" itself still enjoys only the status of
             | hypothesis and not reality.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oort_cloud
             | 
             | Sadly, even Wikipedia editors seem unable to distinguish
             | between the formal definitions of "hypothesis" vs. "theory"
             | when delivering such a scientific article.
        
               | codethief wrote:
               | Oh wow, looks like I'm one of today's lucky 10,000!
               | Thanks so much!
        
               | mandevil wrote:
               | You are correct, I meant to say Kuiper Belt, not Oort
               | Cloud, pulled the wrong thing out of my memory. Unlike
               | the Oort Cloud, we are doing a good job of mapping KBO's
               | as we speak.
        
               | throwaway2k255 wrote:
               | If the furthest objects of the Oort Cloud are over 3
               | light years away, it is relatively close to Alpha
               | Centauri.
               | 
               | Is there a chance that Alpha Centauri also has its own
               | cloud that overlaps with it?
               | 
               | Would AC influence the cloud and adjust the orbit of
               | smaller comets?
        
               | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
               | There's a chance, but no one knows for sure.
               | 
               | Oort Clouds are mostly empty space, so there wouldn't be
               | much direct interaction. But there would certainly be
               | gravitational effects.
               | 
               | My guess (FWIW) is there's more out there than we
               | suspect, likely including plenty of rogue/wandering
               | planets between systems.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | And that, boys and girls, is how Neil deGrass Tyson got
             | Pluto demoted. (I kid).
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | I still think he did it because he wanted to have his
               | name on something significant. He's a science
               | communicator, not a researcher, and he's not going to be
               | making any discoveries. So he's gotta change something
               | that already exists to have his name on something that
               | everyone knows. He had the power to change its status, so
               | he did. I think that's all it was. I hope I'm wrong but
               | I've never heard a really GOOD reason to undo something
               | that was so commonly known and taught. The definition for
               | "planet" could change and Pluto could have been left
               | alone, grandfathered in, in a way. There's a reason it
               | was discovered first. It's huge compared to other dwarf
               | planets.
               | 
               | There's no reason that Pluto couldn't have remained a
               | proper planet. It's big enough to be round _and_ its
               | largest moon is big enough to be round. Mars doesn't have
               | _any round moons._ Mars is still a planet.
        
               | XorNot wrote:
               | Isn't that kind of the issue though? Pluto's moon isn't
               | just round it's about half the size of Pluto itself such
               | that the Pluto-Charon system orbits around a point in
               | space between the two bodies.
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | Jupiter and the sun orbit a barycenter, too. Jupiter is a
               | planet.
        
               | XorNot wrote:
               | And the sun is a star. The point is the category exists
               | to be useful: if Pluto is a planet then a ton of other
               | stuff is technically a planet.
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | and in cases where the star is binary with a huge rocky
               | planet? what are the large satellites in that star
               | system? are they planets of the star, or moons of the
               | huge rocky planet?
        
               | calmbell wrote:
               | Eris is essentially the same size as Pluto and has a
               | larger mass.
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | Then ADD Eros. Don't remove Pluto.
        
               | p_j_w wrote:
               | Why?
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | > Why?
               | 
               | Why remove Pluto?
               | 
               | The definition of a Planet could be whatever we want. It
               | could be "these named entities are planets, other things
               | are not planets" if we wanted. That makes a hell of a lot
               | more sense to me than anything else, because eventually
               | we are going to find planets which really blur the
               | boundaries we have currently. Until we observe the entire
               | universe, any set of rules we come up with are going to
               | appear to be wrong in some situations.
        
               | p_j_w wrote:
               | "It's not perfect so we should just do it arbitrarily
               | instead" is a pretty silly scientific proposition.
        
               | kuschku wrote:
               | Congrats, the solar system would then contain these
               | planets:
               | 
               | Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Ceres, Pallas, Juno, Vesta,
               | Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, Eris, Makemake
               | 
               | (Plus some more).
        
               | jajko wrote:
               | So what? Is 10 some mental limit of names for most
               | population? If I can memorize 8 I can handle 12 or 15, or
               | neither. Making up sub-categories is such a typical
               | bureaucrat's approach to problems.
               | 
               | Why should giant planets be in same category as normal
               | ones? Why mixing ringed with non-ringed? Why mixing
               | moonless with moon-enabled? Gas/liquid ones and solids? I
               | could go on for a long time.
        
               | kuschku wrote:
               | > If I can memorize 8 I can handle 12 or 15, or neither.
               | 
               | Current estimates expect about 200 Pluto-sized objects in
               | the Kuiper belt and about 10'000 in the surrounding
               | region.
               | 
               | Compared with 4 rocky planets, 2 gas giants and 2 ice
               | giants.
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | > The definition for "planet" could change and Pluto
               | could have been left alone, grandfathered in, in a way
               | 
               | This doesn't sound like a science way of doing things.
               | The definition of planet would have to be literally
               | changed to add "Or has to have been discovered before
               | 19XX" in order to keep Pluto without becoming an
               | unbounded set. If you're annoyed at all the pedants
               | correcting kids or anyone else talking about the nine
               | planets, I'd take it up with them for uselessly debating
               | such a fine distinction, like a chemist arguing about the
               | word "Sodium" on a Nutrition Facts label.
               | 
               | I would argue the colloquial definition has indeed been
               | changed in the above way, in that most people would say
               | that what Mars, Venus, and Pluto have in common is
               | they're all planets, and only a few would remember the
               | odd factoid that the dwarf planet designation was
               | created.
               | 
               | It's okay for the colloquial definition to be different
               | than the scientific one. There isn't any use case where
               | that will harm anyone. It's not like we're chartering
               | flights to "All Planets" where space tourists are going
               | to be ripped off, limited to 8 planets by the
               | technicality and missing out.
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | You're probably right, but I still think there's room for
               | things like this.
               | 
               | What's a "moon" versus a "planet"? Earth is a moon of
               | Sol, is it not? Why is having a lot of planets a problem
               | in the first place? Why do we have to restrict the
               | definition at all? If 2-3 stars are at the center of a
               | star system, are the planets in that star system planets,
               | or something else? What if they're small?
               | 
               | This whole scene is ripe for people who want to put their
               | stamp of opinion on something to go nuts arbitrarily.
        
               | rantallion wrote:
               | > What's a "moon" versus a "planet"? Earth is a moon of
               | Sol, is it not?
               | 
               | Planets orbit stars. Moons orbit planets. That's a clear
               | and easy distinction. Planet vs dwarf planet isn't so
               | clear to most.
        
               | amanaplanacanal wrote:
               | Don't planets and moons both orbit their center of mass?
               | The distinction only seems to make sense if the masses of
               | the two bodies are far apart. If they have similar mass,
               | which is the moon and which the planet?
        
               | naikrovek wrote:
               | What's a moon that orbits a moon? Doesn't that make the
               | orbited moon a planet? Pluto has moons. But it's not a
               | planet? ???
               | 
               | If a super massive planet and two stars orbit each other
               | in the center of a star system, all the planets that
               | orbit those stars are moons then technically, right?
               | 
               | This is all super fuzzy and completely arbitrary. These
               | concepts are constructs. Humans could make them better.
               | Instead, everyone decided to make it all worse.
        
               | x______________ wrote:
               | Don't forgot about moonlets!
        
               | gamblor956 wrote:
               | No. A star is not a planet. The bodies orbiting the stars
               | are planets, or dwarf planets, asteroids or comets.
               | Bodies orbiting them are moons. Bodies orbiting the moons
               | don't have a name.
        
               | jajko wrote:
               | > Bodies orbiting the moons don't have a name.
               | 
               | Satellites? Natural or manmade, small or big, doesn't
               | matter.
        
               | skissane wrote:
               | A natural moon of a moon is called a subsatellite:
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsatellite
               | 
               | At present, purely theoretical: we don't know of any.
               | They are probably quite rare, but we don't really know -
               | maybe, in centuries to come, we'll know of dozens of
               | examples; maybe, there are none to find in this entire
               | galaxy
        
               | xp84 wrote:
               | What's a "moon" versus a "planet"? Earth is a moon of
               | Sol, is it not?
               | 
               | We already have the word "satellite" for "things that go
               | around other things" right? I think "moon" is just
               | "satellite of a planet" for convenience in discussing
               | that subset.
               | 
               | > Why is having a lot of planets a problem in the first
               | place?
               | 
               | I think keeping the number manageable is explicitly
               | something we keep around to help kids grasp the main
               | entities in the solar system. If we just said "there are
               | 235 planets" it would be silly to try to teach them all,
               | so we'd probably just settle for "The top 10 biggest
               | planets" or something. Having a definition instead of a
               | number to bound the set isn't much less arbitrary than
               | teaching the "top 10," but since the long tail clearly
               | starts after #8, "Top 8" would be the only guaranteed
               | stable set to give special treatment to, which is what
               | we've arrived at with the official definition.
        
               | MyPasswordSucks wrote:
               | > Earth is a moon of Sol, is it not?
               | 
               | No. The sun is a star, so it doesn't get to have moons.
               | It has planets. If Jupiter started generating heat from
               | nuclear fusion reactions, we'd call Io a planet right
               | before we boiled to death, and with our dying breath we'd
               | add "and also, it's no longer a moon".
               | 
               | Putting a leash on a cat doesn't make it a dog, and both
               | of those creatures have four legs even if you call the
               | tails of each a leg. A planet revolves around a star, a
               | moon revolves around a planet (revolving around a star).
               | There's further elements which make Ceres and Ed White's
               | lost glove not a planet or a moon, respectively, but
               | planets and moons are distinct and non-overlapping
               | categories.
        
               | ALittleLight wrote:
               | Why would we be boiling to death in this situation?
               | Jupiter is much further from Earth than the sun is and
               | Jupiter is also much smaller. Heat would increase, but
               | probably not that much.
        
               | jajko wrote:
               | I would rather expect Earth to not have a stable orbit.
               | Either ripped apart from fluctuating tidal forces, flung
               | away or in one of suns (thus boiling would happen,
               | briefly) or just generally a much more extreme place
               | compared to now.
        
               | dandelany wrote:
               | He didn't "do it", he was one voice among many
               | astronomers who have been calling for a reclassification
               | for years, the IAU voted and made the decision. It's a
               | little silly calling him out for "doing it" for ego
               | reasons when you are the one implicitly giving him credit
               | for it... He didn't write the definition, he didn't chair
               | the committee, he wasn't even on the committee. All he
               | did was leave it off the list of planets at the Hayden
               | Planetarium, where he was director.
        
               | simondotau wrote:
               | Stop agonising over metadata. Pluto is still there and
               | it's not going anywhere.
        
               | metalman wrote:
               | I prefer to think that Pluto got denounced, and may yet
               | be rehabilitated.MPAPA
        
               | elpres wrote:
               | The scientist who demoted Pluto was, in fact, Mike Brown
               | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_E._Brown), and he
               | wrote a really nice book about it called "How I Killed
               | Pluto and Why It Had It Coming".
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | That wiki page needs some work. The section you linked to
           | describes the eccentricity as a ratio, however the top of the
           | page describes 0 as perfectly circular and 1 as an escape
           | trajectory.
           | 
           | If it were a ratio then 0 would be escape and 1 would be
           | circular.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | The "Examples" section doesn't seem to talk about ratios,
             | do you mean the end of the prior "Calculation" section? If
             | so part is just saying you can calculate the ratio of r_a
             | to r_p given you know e and run it through the equation,
             | not that e itself = r_a / r_p (the formula to calculate e
             | from r_a and r_p is higher up in the section).
             | 
             | If not that section, apologies for missing what you're
             | trying to point out - I'm just trying to see what needs to
             | be cleaned up so I can make an edit if needed.
        
         | ddahlen wrote:
         | If you want to view the orbit:
         | 
         | https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/tools/sbdb_lookup.html#/?sstr=2017%...
        
           | araes wrote:
           | Thanks, it helps quite a bit to be able to visualize what
           | they're talking about.
           | 
           | Out at 90 AU, and by the year 3000 is out at 500 AU, and
           | that's still not anywhere near maximum distance. Looked like
           | it was going to be 10,000+ years orbits or longer, and
           | probably out at several 1000 AU at maximum.
           | 
           | Little skeptical it would even orbit normally with how
           | heavily eccentric it is, and the extreme distance at maximum.
           | Way... out beyond the heliopause / heliosheath / termination
           | shock.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | The fun part is the ~1700 AU aphelion is still not far
             | enough out to be part of the Oort cloud.
             | https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/oort-cloud/facts/
        
               | jessriedel wrote:
               | Well, the preprint announcing the discovery describes its
               | orbit as extending to "the inner Oort cloud" even though
               | aphelion is 1630 au.
               | 
               | https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.15806
        
             | jessriedel wrote:
             | > and probably out at several 1000 AU at maximum.
             | 
             | The preprint announcing the discovery lists the semi-major
             | axis as 838 au, so the major axis is 1676 au and aphelion
             | is about 1630 au.
             | 
             | https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.15806
        
           | mwaitjmp wrote:
           | Does anyone know if this has its PE in alignment with the
           | other Sedna type objects found?
           | 
           | I think there is a tendency for them to have their PE out to
           | one side and the AP out to the other giving a fairly obvious
           | pattern indicating another larger object is shepherding the
           | others into their orbits.
        
         | d_silin wrote:
         | Most likely a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detached_object
        
       | java-man wrote:
       | Sorry for a stupid question: could it be "the planet X", or is it
       | too light / in a wrong orbit?
        
         | porkbrain wrote:
         | No, according to Wikipedia Planet Nine is expected to have
         | about 5 earth masses.
        
         | dotancohen wrote:
         | This is not planet X. This is smaller than other, closer,
         | bodies that we already know of.
        
           | squidsoup wrote:
           | And I just put the kettle on for the Anunnaki, what a pity.
        
         | mandevil wrote:
         | This is a good question to ask. It can't be, for the reasons
         | you guessed.
         | 
         | This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened.
         | When Pluto was found by Clyde Tombaugh he was looking for
         | Planet Nine, which Percival Lowell had calculated must be
         | present based on the orbits of the outer planets. But it was
         | quickly realized that Pluto was too small and in the wrong
         | orbit for it be Lowell's deduced planet. (And even then they
         | worked with a too high estimate of Pluto's mass, it wasn't
         | until the 1978 discovery of Charon that we got a good estimate
         | of Pluto's mass. It is hard to get a good mass estimate without
         | something else in orbit around it.)
         | 
         | The Pioneer and Voyager missions gave us much better estimates
         | of the masses of the gas giants, and my understanding is that
         | if you go back and redo Lowell's calculations with those
         | correct masses, his planet disappears. That's my best guess as
         | to Planet X, that our constants are wrong in some way, but
         | we'll see.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | One of the other theories for Planet X I believe has been
           | debunked as absense of evidence. There are gaps in the
           | _documented_ bodies orbiting the sun that could imply an
           | object clearing orbits, but they were dismissed instead as
           | sampling errors - there are parts of the sky that are easier
           | to catalog than others, and so of course we have cataloged
           | the easy parts more thoroughly. We need observation stations
           | in a sun orbit to see the parts we can't see easily from an
           | earth orbit.
        
         | atlgator wrote:
         | It is a very odd orbit. Obviously it doesn't match the expected
         | mass, but the orbit makes you wonder what else might be out
         | there. As someone else posted:
         | 
         | https://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/tools/sbdb_lookup.html#/?sstr=2017%...
        
       | ChuckMcM wrote:
       | "That's no moon" :-). But more seriously, just another giant lump
       | of stuff swinging around the solar system. I am not an
       | astronomer, so I'm not sure about some of the things I'm reading
       | in that report but to me, it seems to be in the solar ecliptic.
       | But its far enough away even at perigee that the only thing of
       | note it might interact with would be Pluto.
       | 
       | I suppose that flying through the Oort cloud it might
       | periodically launch ice balls into the inner solar system.
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | _only thing of note it might interact with would be Pluto_
         | 
         | Is Pluto a planet again, or not? Honest question because I
         | don't keep up on these things because they have no practical
         | effect other than drama...and I try to avoid drama.
        
           | kulahan wrote:
           | No. It's smaller than other moons in our solar system. It's
           | never going to be a planet again, but a planetoid, dwarf
           | planet, or even asteroid is appropriate.
        
             | GMoromisato wrote:
             | Just to be pedantic, Mercury is also "smaller than other
             | moons in our solar system"
             | 
             | And never is a long time, especially for something as
             | fickle as human classification.
        
               | kulahan wrote:
               | You're right, it's about gravitational domination.
        
               | GMoromisato wrote:
               | Agreed.
               | 
               | My (uninformed) guess is they will eventually reclassify
               | all non-moon objects in hydrostatic equilibrium (anything
               | round) as planets, which will make Pluto a planet again
               | and bring in a half-dozen new objects.
        
         | rich_sasha wrote:
         | It boggles my mind when I look up at the Moon, that in fact
         | it's a massive rock travelling at something like 2,000 mph,
         | always trying to fall onto the Earth, and missing it all the
         | time.
        
           | mgiampapa wrote:
           | If my goal was to fall into the earth and kept missing I
           | would be depressed too. Each try it misses by slightly more
           | and it's orbital distance increases. How sad is that?
           | 
           | Also, I like to anthropomorphize inanimate objects because
           | secretly they hate it.
        
           | yieldcrv wrote:
           | its getting further away, if it helps your understanding of
           | the situation better
           | 
           | "falling into" was never part of the equation
        
           | BurningFrog wrote:
           | Earth is also constantly failing at falling into the Moon.
           | 
           | Why did we have to evolve in such a loser system??
        
         | dabluecaboose wrote:
         | > But its far enough away even at perigee
         | 
         | Minor astrodynamics nit: "perigee" is a term specific to Earth.
         | The generic term for all bodies is "periapsis", and the term
         | for the Sun is "perihelion"
         | 
         | (Astrodynamics terms generally take from the Greek, rather than
         | Latin)
        
       | astroalex wrote:
       | I found the preamble at the beginning of the announcement
       | charmingly dated:
       | 
       | > The Minor Planet Electronic Circulars contain information on
       | unusual minor planets, routine data on comets and natural
       | satellites, and occasional editorial announcements. They are
       | published on behalf of Division F of the International
       | Astronomical Union by the Minor Planet Center, Smithsonian
       | Astrophysical Observatory, Cambridge, MA 02138, U.S.A. > >
       | Prepared using the Tamkin Foundation Computer Network
       | 
       | Looking up the Tamkin Foundation Computer Network:
       | https://www.minorplanetcenter.net/iau/Ack/TamkinFoundation.h...
       | 
       | > The OpenVMS cluster consists of nine single-CPU workstations
       | and one four-CPU server. All the machines are running the
       | extremely robust and secure OpenVMS operating system. The twelve
       | Alpha-based machines are arranged as an OpenVMS Cluster, allowing
       | all machines to share disk storage, execution and batch queues
       | and other resources, as well as simplifying system management.
       | 
       | Assuming "Alpha-based machines" is referring to the DEC Alpha,
       | these computers are ~30 years old.
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Alpha
        
         | bastardoperator wrote:
         | Could they not get more juice out of a single, modern server? I
         | get porting over to a new system and migrating is a huge time
         | suck and a good enough reason not to do it if everything is
         | working, just seems excessive for 14 cores.
        
           | Macha wrote:
           | > Could they not get more juice out of a single, modern
           | server
           | 
           | They could probably get more performance out of one core on a
           | modern phone, never mind a single modern server. But you see
           | some really old systems in a lot of equipment, not because
           | the porting costs are expensive, but the certification of
           | proving the new system works the same is more than the
           | operational cost of the legacy equipment.
        
             | api wrote:
             | I've heard of consultants who will virtualize systems like
             | this in place using qemu emulation of CPUs like Alpha and
             | Sparc and run it on a single server or in the cloud.
        
           | rubitxxx10 wrote:
           | > Could they not get more juice out of a single, modern
           | server?
           | 
           | Maybe the software they use won't easily run on a modern
           | server.
           | 
           | You could ask them, but you might have to hook up your modem
           | and try to call them. Maybe they have a BBS you could leave
           | your question on.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | Sure, but the capital and one-time cost of acquiring and
           | shifting to the modern server would be non-zero, and it would
           | entail some risk. (While OpenVMS is maintained and runs on
           | newer systems, that doesn't mean the software that matters on
           | the existing cluster would run without modification.)
           | 
           | It probably would save operating costs, and probably over a
           | reasonably short window, if it was done successfully, though.
        
         | 404mm wrote:
         | Maybe not as old. I deployed a few racks of HP Alpha DS25s in
         | 2007-2008 before they were replaced with Itanium based Blades
         | (running OpenVMS 8.4). I do not miss working with OpenVMS one
         | bit. It was rock stable (basically an on/off appliance) but the
         | user experience left me wanting (coming from Linux).
         | 
         | I can see how they may be still stuck on Alphas because unless
         | they can somehow simply recompile for x86-64 OpenVMS, it's a
         | complete rewrite from scratch.
        
         | ccgreg wrote:
         | In 2020 I toured the machine room and those boxes were powered
         | off.
        
       | ddahlen wrote:
       | I got a bit too excited with this one, this is may not be a full
       | on dwarf planet, but it is a very large object. There are only a
       | small number (about 10-20) objects in our solar system of this
       | size. Its the first big one we have found in a number of years.
        
         | calmbell wrote:
         | By "small number (about 10-20) objects in our solar system of
         | this size" you are referring to the class of objects of a
         | similar size rather than the largest objects in the solar
         | system?
        
       | d_silin wrote:
       | For the curious.
       | 
       | Periapsis, au: 45.241
       | 
       | Apoapsis, au: 1714.759
       | 
       | Period, years: 26106.07
        
         | d_silin wrote:
         | It comes to Earth closer than Pluto, btw.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | Specifically: when this object is at its closest and Pluto is
           | at its farthest then this object can be the one closer to
           | Earth. Pluto comes the closest of the two overall though.
        
         | silverfrost wrote:
         | 26000 year period and yet it has still been around the sun
         | 2000+ times since the dinosaurs went extinct. Make me feel a
         | bit insignificant and awed at the same time.
        
           | buryat wrote:
           | Humans probably can orbit the sun 2000+ times in a not
           | significantly distant future
        
       | tomcam wrote:
       | They prefer to be called little planets
        
       | calmbell wrote:
       | Here is the arXiv preprint: https://arxiv.org/abs/2505.15806
        
       | jsnider3 wrote:
       | Welcome to the neighborhood!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-05-22 23:02 UTC)