[HN Gopher] Dominion Energy's NEM 2.0 Proposal: What It Means fo...
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       Dominion Energy's NEM 2.0 Proposal: What It Means for Solar in
       Virginia
        
       Author : Vsolar
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2025-05-16 19:03 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.virtuesolar.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.virtuesolar.com)
        
       | laurencerowe wrote:
       | Rooftop solar in the US is absurldy expensive. The 30% federal
       | subsidies alone are greater than the full buildout cost of
       | utility scale solar. At these prices rooftop solar makes no
       | sense.
       | 
       | This seems to be more about the US market than rooftop vs utility
       | scale. Australia shows it is possible to install rooftop solar
       | cheaply. Why can't we?
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | I find it hard to judge the expense of a solar array. I have
         | purchased 2 in Massachusetts about 8 years apart. The SRECs I
         | have received for the first array I would say roughly covered
         | the costs. The second array seems to be on the same pace. I
         | also benefit from the electricity produced.
         | 
         | Last year the second Massachusetts changed the electrical
         | repurchase agreement and I just checked the bill for April. I
         | produced 480 more kWh than used. I ended up with a $58.04
         | credit. National Grid pays me $.24320141 per kWh. I will be
         | pumping just under 6,000 kWh a month into the gird until
         | October.
         | 
         | I don't see solar as expensive I see it as a good value. I will
         | always be buying electricity and it will always be rising in
         | price. I'm happy to have the opportunity to invest to reduce
         | these costs.
         | 
         | I agree that the system is not fair...
        
         | conradev wrote:
         | I studied this for a year fellowship, and there are lots of
         | problems, but problems with permitting and interconnection are
         | pretty unique in the US.
         | 
         | NREL, NFPA, UL, and Tesla got together and developed SolarAPP
         | (https://gosolarapp.org). It enables instant online permitting
         | for standard installations, and California passed a law
         | mandating its adoption.
         | 
         | It's also sales. Solar is currently sold by salespeople and
         | they need to be paid. The small solar companies contract out to
         | the larger solar companies for crap rates because top of funnel
         | is very hard for them. There is a YC company going after that
         | opportunity: https://projectsolar.com/
         | 
         | Software providers like Aurora (https://aurorasolar.com) are
         | used for making proposals, but they sell software to solar
         | installers rather than vertically integrating and going after
         | it themselves.
         | 
         | Tesla sells online, but the online experience ends after you
         | pay and they try to sell you too much solar. Everything,
         | including design, is subcontracted out in my understanding.
         | 
         | Sunrun is a great option even though you don't own the panels.
         | PPAs are more popular at the moment because interest rates are
         | so high.
        
         | Analemma_ wrote:
         | It's mostly shortage of labor: if you're willing to do the
         | research on your setup, buy the equipment yourself, and just
         | hand instructions+gear to a contractor, you save a bunch of
         | money. If you're willing/able to do the installation yourself,
         | you save even more.
         | 
         | This isn't specifically a rooftop solar thing, the entire
         | construction industry in America has been bottlenecked on labor
         | for years. You can insert your own personal hobbyhorse here
         | about why that is (immigration, undervaluing trades, etc.), but
         | whatever it is it sure is a headwind on solar migration.
        
       | kanisae wrote:
       | Glad I am not a Dominion customer anymore. I will happily stick
       | with my coop and pay $0.12/kwh and keep my 1:1 metering.
        
         | detourdog wrote:
         | .12 kWh sounds great where is that.
        
           | kanisae wrote:
           | I am on svec.coop, and have been much happier with them than
           | I was on Dominion.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | Many states have rates in that range. https://www.eia.gov/ele
           | ctricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph...
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Edison designs their bill to make it very hard to tell what you
         | are paying per kwh, but I think I'm paying between $0.20 and
         | $0.30 depending on time of day.
        
       | conradev wrote:
       | It's worth noting that while net metering is helpful for
       | bootstrapping rooftop solar, ratepayers are essentially
       | subsidizing solar arrays on the houses of (wealthier) homeowners.
       | 
       | The utility company would normally pay wholesale rates for solar
       | energy (which has an aggressive duck curve), but instead they're
       | forced to pay retail prices to net metering customers.
       | 
       | California pays wholesale rates now (they're on NEM 3.0) with a
       | fixed fee for maintaining the wires even if you don't use them a
       | whole lot.
        
         | lokar wrote:
         | I'm not sure it makes sense to pick one spot in such a complex
         | system and say "x is subsidizing y"
         | 
         | If you believe burning carbon fuels is a big negative
         | externality, then solar users are subsidizing everyone else.
         | 
         | When the utility puts up capital to build a plant, they are
         | promised a return on that investment over time.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | > If you believe burning carbon fuels is a big negative
           | externality, then solar users are subsidizing everyone else.
           | 
           | If the energy company is paying you $0.12 to sell electricity
           | for $0.09 - they're losing money. Not to mention, they aren't
           | covering any of the costs of maintaining their network (which
           | is a large chunk of the overall cost).
           | 
           | If they're forced to buy rooftop solar from homeowners at a
           | loss - they are FORCED to transfer that loss onto other
           | costumers - which means the other customers are subsidizing
           | that.
           | 
           | There isn't anything tricky about who is subsidizing whom.
           | 
           | Your issues with "dirty" energy are entirely separate.
        
             | abracadaniel wrote:
             | They're also simultaneously selling it again for $0.12
             | ensuring that your surplus free electricity is used by your
             | neighbors. Conceptually it's a wash, because they then
             | scale down the amount of power they generate. The real
             | world consequence is that power generation is not easily
             | scaled on demand.
        
               | mgraczyk wrote:
               | "because they then scale down the amount of power they
               | generate"
               | 
               | They spend 0.12 for power that would have cost them much
               | less than 0.12 to generate. The consequence is that they
               | make up for it by charging other customers more.
        
             | gusgus01 wrote:
             | At least in New York state, they've recently tried to deal
             | with this discrepancy while still keeping the incentive to
             | install solar. There's a flat rate fee for all electricity
             | customers to be hooked up to the grid to support grid
             | infrastructure. There's also an additional fee to those
             | that have solar panels called the Customer Benefit
             | Contribution that is based off your generation to help fund
             | energy efficiency projects and low-income programs.
        
             | Y_Y wrote:
             | > they are FORCED to transfer that loss onto other
             | costumers
             | 
             | How does that figure?
             | 
             | I won't even insist you account for second order effects of
             | having the solar panel, just that the consumer is only
             | paying for their net draw of energy from the grid (which
             | has decreased).
        
             | herewego wrote:
             | You are stating a common misconception. That being that
             | solar owners should be paying for anything other than the
             | cost to push power into the distribution grid. The grid
             | fees solar owners pay account for that. They should not be
             | paid for supplying power at wholesale rates bc that assumes
             | a wholesale power flow model, which is not physically
             | applicable to solar owners who support the local
             | distribution grid. If you look at the portion of the grid
             | that a solar owner interacts with, how their power flows
             | through it, the efficiencies of supplying that power
             | locally are clear and should be at retail + distribution
             | fees only. It's the solar owners that are actually
             | (marginally) subsidizing the non-solar owners in reality.
             | 
             | The utilities and ISO's do not argue against this. They
             | want to eliminate NEM 2.0 in favor of NEM 3.0 bc the
             | difference in rates are to then be provided by alternative
             | incentives such as battery pay-for-performance programs.
             | 
             | Disclaimer: I own an energy company that does C&I and
             | Residential energy aggregation and participates in
             | wholesale market energy supply and incentive programs.
        
       | johncalvinyoung wrote:
       | I wish this article recognized that there is a cost to
       | maintaining the grid, both in transmission infrastructure, but
       | also in maintaining the dispatchable generation capacity to
       | smooth out solar's variability. As frustrating as this policy
       | change sounds for consumers, I can see the case that the utility
       | has variable && fixed costs related to net metering that warrants
       | a sub-retail rate of exchange. In point of fact, roughly the rate
       | that Dominion is willing to pay for solar energy in commercial
       | PPAs.
       | 
       | The SREC situation is more complicated. I'm not familiar with
       | Virginia's program, but I could see a case that Dominion doesn't
       | _deserve_ those credits... or one that says if they 're
       | building/operating their grid around accepting rooftop solar,
       | some of those tax credits should accrue to their operations. I
       | don't know. I wonder if commercial PPAs also transfer credits in
       | exchange?
        
       | andyferris wrote:
       | Wow. I don't think we've had net metering in Australia basically
       | ever (maybe if you DIYed decades ago, the analogue counter would
       | have simply spun backwards... not sure if that was ever legal
       | though). If you have solar, there's always two one-way metres
       | with seperate rates (and now real-time smart meters with the
       | optional capability to use a provider that offers time-of-use
       | wholesale rates - so you can profit in energy trading/arbitrage
       | if you have a battery).
        
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