[HN Gopher] Building my childhood dream PC
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       Building my childhood dream PC
        
       Author : todsacerdoti
       Score  : 124 points
       Date   : 2025-05-18 14:52 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fabiensanglard.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fabiensanglard.net)
        
       | p_ing wrote:
       | I can't say a PS/1 would have been my first choice for a 486
       | platform; I'd imagine there are faster motherboards out there and
       | a desktop (i.e. ASUS w/ SiS chipsets). That said, I had a 486/66,
       | so... (some Dell).
       | 
       | And it looks like the PS/1 is missing VLB, but of course the
       | video card is integrated in this model so that makes sense.
       | 
       | I would have probably went with a Cirrus Logic VLB video card and
       | a Sound Blaster AWE64.
       | 
       | But that's my childhood machine, not the author's :-)
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | I was always afraid of a lot of the IBM and Compaq computers
         | because of all of the incompatibility notes or issues I'd read
         | about in README.TXT (usually minor workarounds), and then to a
         | greater extent in getting Linux running on them.
        
           | p_ing wrote:
           | Linux wasn't too much of a concern when these machines were
           | in their prime. But yes, I remember those compatibility
           | notes.
        
         | fabiensanglard wrote:
         | > I would have probably went with a Cirrus Logic VLB video card
         | 
         | This is exactly what the IBM PS/1 2168 have (see the unboxing
         | section).
        
           | p_ing wrote:
           | The video frame doesn't render; on macOS Firefox it shows "No
           | video with supported format and MIME type found.", so I
           | missed it. But looking at the pictures, it only has ISA slots
           | on the expansion board, unless I'm missing something.
           | 
           | But I missed that part of your post. I haven't seen
           | integrated VLB before, only slotted. Does this board have an
           | expansion to 2MiB? Though that would only matter if you
           | wanted higher resolution/colors.
        
             | fabiensanglard wrote:
             | It is in the unboxing page. ASTRA.EXE shows the video card
             | and the bus: https://fabiensanglard.net/2168/unboxing/#:~:t
             | ext=The%20inte...
        
         | AStonesThrow wrote:
         | The 486 generation was fraught with bus wars and the
         | motherboard market was rather fragmented.
         | 
         | I once visited a college buddy who had a genuine EISA system,
         | and I believe that I left flecks of drool as I admired the
         | superior electronics and engineering invested in that EISA bus.
         | Of course, nobody seriously purchased EISA if they expected to
         | be compatible with stuff.
         | 
         | My father had a PS/2 50Z, which unfortunately saddled him with
         | the MCA Microchannel bus. A likewise superior bit of
         | engineering that was compatible with virtually nothing.
         | Thankfully, Dad never felt a burning need to trick out his
         | system.
         | 
         | Personally, I enjoyed the standard ISA path on my 286 and 386.
         | It was with some regret that I chose VLB for the 486 board,
         | because compared to the above buses, VLB was a hack and a
         | kludge, and you could smell the duct tape and chewing gum on
         | every expansion card.
         | 
         | However, VLB expansion cards were as plentiful as Star Wars
         | action figures, so I was able to absolutely cram cards into a
         | full-size tower until several generations of Pentiums obsoleted
         | everything except PCI.
        
           | p_ing wrote:
           | The days of nearly-full slots was great. While by the time I
           | had my first computer, a 386SX (12Mhz?) IDE and floppy
           | controllers had made it to the motherboard, we still had a
           | sound card, modem, video card, potentially game card if no
           | game ports on the sound card, and awhile later in PCI land a
           | 3Dfx card.
           | 
           | Today it's... video card and that's it. Every other PCIe slot
           | is a 'waste' (though I do have a BT 5.1 card for a purpose I
           | no longer need). SLI is dead. Only those with special needs,
           | LLMs or crypto, would ever fill up the additional slots.
           | 
           | Building computers is now just stupid simple and in my view,
           | sorta brainless. No jumpers, no "must go in this slot #". The
           | only thing I ever have difficulty with is mounting the CPU
           | cooler, the thing is f-ing huge and requires a special very
           | long Phillips screwdriver.
           | 
           | /oldmanrant
           | 
           | Oh yeah, and if you didn't bleed when building a PC, you
           | didn't really build a PC. Now everything is rolled steel for
           | those kitten hands.
        
             | cesarb wrote:
             | > Today it's... video card and that's it. Every other PCIe
             | slot is a 'waste'
             | 
             | Made worse by the video cards being ridiculously fat. As an
             | example, the one I have is two slots wide, and protrudes
             | over the third slot; my motherboard has a PCIe x1 slot
             | there, which is made unusable by that. The fourth and last
             | slot of my motherboard, a PCIe x4, is clearly intended for
             | the Thunderbolt card (there's a special connector near it
             | on the motherboard for the sideband signals), but I can't
             | see much use for Thunderbolt on a tower desktop, so it sits
             | empty.
        
               | p_ing wrote:
               | Yep, I have a 4090. It runs adventure and zork like no
               | one's business.
        
               | keyringlight wrote:
               | MY likely-underinformed opinion is that the ATX form
               | factor for building PCs is creaking at the seams for the
               | generic '1x dGPU' specification, but there's a number of
               | factors that work against a change to something
               | substantially better. It'd need a number of companies to
               | offer new product lines at the same time, probably
               | incompatible with ATX and all the challenges that would
               | bring.
               | 
               | It's not just the huge heatsinks to get rid of the heat
               | output, the power input is another. Also while dGPUs are
               | growing at the high end, low-end dGPUs seem under-served,
               | while AMD have APUs that I think could make a lot of
               | people very content they don't seem too eager to make
               | them easy to get hold of, and intel have the building
               | blocks for a similar product but are hesitant to
               | providing something beyond the minimum
        
               | p_ing wrote:
               | Intel proposed the BTX format [0]. Didn't catch on. ATX
               | has a lot of momentum (including the related mATX, EATX,
               | and so forth).
               | 
               | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BTX_(form_factor)
        
               | keyringlight wrote:
               | I think BTX serves as the example for why a major change
               | is unlikely, it's death is a warning to anyone thinking
               | of doing the same. That said, even though it was led by
               | intel back when they were in a much better position than
               | they are now, I wonder if it wasn't against the
               | background of Pentium4/"Preshott" and Athlon/Opteron
               | would it have gone down better.
               | 
               | It's a shame as the only real personal computer
               | desktop/tower maker that's exercised their freedom to
               | make a significantly different design Apple with Mac
               | Pros, and that's a different animal entirely.
        
               | vel0city wrote:
               | The popularity of the mini-ITX board size really shows
               | this along with alternative mounting locations and risers
               | for GPUs.
               | 
               | The old ATX power supply standard really needs to get
               | phased out. I'm hopeful to see progress on ATX12VO become
               | more common.
               | 
               | But even separate from that I see things like the Ryzen Z
               | series opening even smaller devices while still offering
               | a lot of graphical punch. I love the Z1 Extreme on my
               | Legion Go, it's an awesome platform. And yeah, having
               | that plus an external GPU could be cool but as noted it's
               | $$$.
        
             | wpm wrote:
             | As someone with those "special" needs (if 10Gb/25Gb
             | Ethernet and HDMI-capture are that special), it is
             | incredibly frustrating.
             | 
             | The CPUs all come with enough PCIe lanes for a single dGPU
             | at x16, x4 for the PCH/chipset, and maybe another x4 for a
             | single M.2 SSD. If you aren't building a bog standard
             | gaming PC with one SSD, one huge GPU, and nothing else, you
             | get a configuration that doesn't match what you need.
             | Bifurcation is hit-or-miss, if you can even physically get
             | to the second PCIe slot, if that slot is even big enough.
             | Random M.2s are linked to the PCH with random modes and
             | bandwidths that change based on other configuration
             | options.
             | 
             | All due to the stingy lane count on consumer platforms,
             | again, targeting the lowest common denominator. It was even
             | worse before Ryzen came out and offered a _generous_ 24
             | lanes (16 for a GPU, 4 for the PCH, and 4 for an SSD) vs
             | Intel 's 20.
             | 
             | Of course, PCIe lanes aren't free, but somehow, having
             | "I/O" targeted workloads means you also must go and spend
             | 2-5x as much for "workstation" or server class
             | motherboards, which also are engineered to a common "usual
             | needs" spec that add in a bunch of shit I don't need, and
             | usually require sacrificing single-core speed unless you
             | get top of the line $10K+ server CPUs that draw 5x the
             | power.
             | 
             | What I'd really like is instead of 4 lanes going to the
             | chipset, I wish _all_ of them did. Or at least, all of them
             | went from the CPU to some switch chip that would allow me
             | to set which lanes go to what slots, and have a software
             | configured lane /bandwidth allocation. 24 lanes of PCIe 5.0
             | is 48 lanes of PCIe 4.0 is 96 lanes of PCIe 3.0, which is
             | more than enough, but trying to actually unlock all of that
             | bandwidth is still limited to the hardware configuration of
             | the motherboard, and no way to reallocate unspent
             | bandwidth. Instead of it all being hardwired for specific
             | configurations, to the CPU directly OR to the chipset, I
             | wish they were all wired for x16 (or x4 for the M.2 slots)
             | direcly to some switch chip, which is then fully wired to
             | the CPU's remaining lanes after PCH/chipset connections. If
             | I need to stuff 4 slots with x16 cards, but they only run
             | at 3.0 speeds, that would still leave 8 lanes of PCIe 5.0 I
             | could allocate elsewhere.
             | 
             | I'm sure this is probably technically impossible, or would
             | be incredibly expensive, but a man can dream.
        
             | AStonesThrow wrote:
             | [delayed]
        
       | vunderba wrote:
       | Great article. The mention of Cyrix brought back a rush of
       | nostalgia - one of the earlier PCs I built used a Cyrix 686
       | 166mhz processor.
       | 
       | From the article:
       | 
       |  _> 8BitDo makes a fantastic modern keyboard inspired by the M
       | looks and feel._
       | 
       | Hard disagree. I found most of their keyboard replicas to be
       | rather cheap feeling. However, their controllers such as the
       | Arcade Stick and Pro 2 are excellent.
       | 
       | I think the closest approximation you can get to an old school
       | model M keyboard with buckler springs is probably from Unicomp.
       | If you don't care about that kind of authenticity I would just
       | stick with something like a Keychron mechanical keyboard and call
       | it a day.
       | 
       | https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/NEW_M
        
         | christkv wrote:
         | I had the same Cyrix cpu and all I remember is that FPU
         | performance was terrible in Quake.
        
           | bitwize wrote:
           | I had a Cyrix 6x86MX and it was good enough for Quake (I
           | played Quake originally on a Pentium-60, and it was fine).
           | 
           | The Quake code was designed to take advantage of the fact
           | that the Pentium could have one integer and one FPU
           | instruction in flight at the same time, thanks to
           | optimizations by an even bigger space-alien wizard than John
           | Carmack -- Michael Abrash. The Cyrix CPUs... couldn't dual-
           | issue instructions like this, so clock-for-clock their
           | performance suffered compared to Intel.
        
           | micv wrote:
           | It was alright in Quake, as I recall, but it really didn't
           | cope at all well with Quake 2 and Jedi Knight.
        
       | tos1 wrote:
       | Love the image of the monitor showing Battle Chess! As a side
       | note to all like-minded people that love old DOS games, check out
       | the library of DOS games on archive.org:
       | https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos_games
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | The best version of Battle Chess was on the Amiga, though. :)
        
       | automatic6131 wrote:
       | You never forget your first teenage dream PC. For me, it would be
       | a 8800 GTX SLI build with a QX6850. And now I've revealed how old
       | I am :^)
        
         | p_ing wrote:
         | Too young to remember how to configure an
         | autoexec.bat/config.sys for maximum memory in Falcon Gold, too
         | old to forget what a Folder is.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Fire up MEMMAKER.EXE which makes recommendations after two
           | restarts.
        
         | coolcase wrote:
         | Mine was weird. An Amstrad 1512 but shrunk to about half the
         | length in every dimension inc. monitor. I could probably make
         | that now using 3d printer and rpi!
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | More than once I've had a TI-99/4a and fully loaded peripheral
       | expansion box and an Atari 800XL on my eBay watch list. I've come
       | so close to pulling the trigger but I know it would give me a
       | weekend of fun and that would be about it. Back to eBay it would
       | go for the next impulsive dinosaur.
        
       | bluedino wrote:
       | Reminds me a lot of the IBM 486 we had in school, it was the
       | first Windows PC I had ever seen, most everything else was either
       | an Apple II or an IBM running PC DOS.
       | 
       | It had a CD-ROM, speakers and sound and color and everything. I
       | think it was $10,000, or that's what the computer teacher said.
        
       | MrBuddyCasino wrote:
       | Jealaous of that video game library. Fabien has good taste
       | indeed.
        
         | fabiensanglard wrote:
         | Every times I think I a "done" I see something I want to add.
         | The technique I used to limit myself is "whatever can fin on
         | the three top shelves".
         | 
         | It worked until I started to store some boxes horizontally.
        
       | ungreased0675 wrote:
       | I love this. What a trip down memory lane.
        
       | kriro wrote:
       | My entry was the mentioned 486DX2-66Mhz. Double speed CD-Rom and
       | Sound Blaster. Norton Commander was great, Doom and Pirates Gold
       | where my games of choice.
       | 
       | Also started programming on this one with QBasic and then moved
       | to Turbo Pascal 7 (because I needed a .exe file to be called from
       | autoexec as a password protection vs. my sister which I couldn't
       | do with QBasic :)
       | 
       | Didn't take me long to destroy everything by trying to install
       | some old SUSE-Linux from a floppy disk :D
        
         | yazantapuz wrote:
         | > Didn't take me long to destroy everything by trying to
         | install some old SUSE-Linux from a floppy disk :D
         | 
         | With a friend we destroyed the msdos 622 installation on the
         | new 40 mb hd of my family 386 when deleting tmp files...
        
       | vincent-manis wrote:
       | My teenage dream machine was a PDP-8 (the original) and a
       | Teletype ASR-33. Fortunately, I never got it.
        
         | musicale wrote:
         | Fortunately you can connect a replica PDP-8 front panel to an
         | emulator!
         | 
         | https://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-8
         | 
         | Or an FPGA-based hardware version:
         | 
         | https://hackaday.io/project/180081-opencores-pdp-8-on-fpga
         | 
         | http://fpgaretrocomputing.org/pdp8x/
         | 
         | etc.
        
       | ok123456 wrote:
       | PS/1 seems like an odd choice since it was intended for the home
       | and small business market. It was IBM's answer to beige box
       | clones dominating everyone who wasn't an institutional buyer and
       | paying for the PS/2 premium.
        
         | tokai wrote:
         | Because of the authors childhood experience of his neighbors
         | PS/1 being much better than his own machine.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | My first x86 was acquired in 1997: a 200MHz pentium MMX with 32
       | MB of RAM, a 2.0 GB harddisk, a 2 MB S3 ViRGE as video card,
       | Aztech Labs AZT-R 2316 sound card, a 33.600 bps winmodem and 28X
       | (I think) CD-ROM. I soon wanted to install Linux on it. It ran
       | minilinux, a small distro that could be launched directly from
       | DOS without partitioning, relatively well. I also downloaded
       | Debian and prepared the 10 floppies to install it but never got
       | ahead because it didn't support my keyboard layout (ABNT2) out of
       | the box. I eventually installed Conectiva Linux 3.0 (marumbi), a
       | RedHat based distro, on it. It worked somewhat beautifully but
       | had no support for the modem and soundcard.
       | 
       | As my relatives and siblings updated their computers, I inherited
       | their spare parts. My machine got some very interesting upgrades.
       | It got 2 floppy drives (very rare at the time), 2 harddisks, a
       | cd-recorder unit, RAM was upgraded to 64 MB and the modem was
       | replaced by a ne2k compatible network card. I also had a Linux-
       | supported Canon BJC 4200 and a SANE-supported TCE table scanner.
       | Still, I couldn't get the SoundBlaster that my brother had and,
       | sadly, my machine continued without sound support on Linux.
       | 
       | At around 2006 I replaced it with a new self built computer which
       | had better compatibility with Linux than with windows-xp and then
       | this new computer became my first dedicated Linux machine. I
       | found out that Linux eventually got support for AZT-R 2316 at
       | around 2007, but the last time I tried my old computer, it
       | displayed "parity error" probably from oxidation in the memory
       | connectors. I then just gave up on it.
       | 
       | Later on I thought about if it would be possible to install a
       | graphics card with OpenGL support and USB port on one of the
       | remaining PCI ports. I certainly wouldn't be able to install a
       | modern Linux distro on it, but certainly it would work with one
       | of those specially crafted for old computers like TinyCore. With
       | recent kernel changes, swapping maybe smart enough to be usable
       | on SSD with SATA to IDE adapters even in that computer. Now, that
       | would be a dream machine.
        
       | dt3ft wrote:
       | Thanks for sharing. I love the design/theme of the site. Pure
       | bliss.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | In Part 2 the photo immediately after "It seems IBM integrated it
       | to the motherboard" completely fooled my brain into believing
       | that I'm looking at the side wall of a garage. The garage door to
       | the left. The opener equipment top-right.
       | 
       | And I'm just immediately fixated on this whole vibe of a life-
       | sized tinkering workspace that's the inside of a PC case.
        
         | somat wrote:
         | makes me think of the IBM AN/FSQ-7 built into the SAGE air
         | defense stations, the largest computer ever built.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/FSQ-7_Combat_Direction_Cent...
         | 
         | While realistically I understand it was just a bunch of racks
         | and consoles, due to the permanent nature of the installation
         | and the way it was integrated into the building I like to
         | imagine the operators and technicians scurrying around admits
         | bunches of wires and tubes.
        
       | dgfitz wrote:
       | I can't help but notice the ship date on both the keyboard and
       | the main unit. It looks like you had already bought the keyboard
       | before the pc itself arrived.
        
       | dep_b wrote:
       | Could be a fun exercise:
       | 
       | - Commodore 128 with dual floppy drive vs my tape-only C64 -
       | Maxed out Amiga 1000 with a bunch of sampler and MIDI extensions
       | vs my A500 + 512kb - B/W PowerMac G3 fully expanded just because
       | - Dual Celly 300A @ 450 with Dual Voodoo II vs my 450 with single
       | Voodoo II
       | 
       | Nothing after that had this "I really want this, but I can't get
       | it" thing. I just bought what I wanted.
        
       | adamcharnock wrote:
       | The very moment I saw the letters 'MMX', a long forgotten part of
       | my brain woke up and said, "I know what that smells like!"
       | 
       | Which is bizarre. But to me it is (apparently) the small of new
       | electronics, plus perhaps the 'hot dusty things' smell. It also
       | comes with the memory of playing Pod (a racing game), by Ubisoft
       | (I think). Good teenage memories!
        
         | tecleandor wrote:
         | Oh, that was nice. I think it was one of the first "high fps"
         | games and it looked super smooth...
        
       | liotier wrote:
       | I did that a few years ago, with the 1990 computer that I lusted
       | over as a teenager: the IBM 8595 AKD (European reference - it is
       | 85950KD in North America)... 486 DX, XGA display, 320 MB SCSI, 64
       | MB RAM... At that time my computer was a 1988 Olivetti PC-1 (512
       | KB 8 MHz Nec V40 with CGA and a floppy drive)...
       | 
       | I was awed by the beast... Everything about it screamed over-
       | engineering - even the case was incomprehensibly robust and the
       | power switch had a satisfyingly loud motion... I could even touch
       | its legendary tangential fan... Touching the 20 years-old dream
       | was an emotional moment - I'm glad I did it... The ultimate
       | Windows 3.0 host !
       | 
       | But it had to go after a little while: my two-room apartment was
       | too small for so much awesomeness, so it went to another fan.
        
       | agcat wrote:
       | Thanks for sharing. Its a great writeup
        
       | sthuck wrote:
       | The part about buying a misleading CPU really hit home with me.
       | Man all those small retailers in the 90s were living the dream
       | with their unaware customers.
       | 
       | My parents bought an AMD 486 100mhz at the end of 1995, it was
       | still a viable low end machine for that time but they paid as if
       | it was a Pentuim. Had to somehow make it work up until 2001 with
       | that machine. Don't know if I had a career in tech if I wasn't
       | forced to tinker with it.
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-18 23:00 UTC)