[HN Gopher] Comma 3X: Initial Impressions
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       Comma 3X: Initial Impressions
        
       Author : surprisetalk
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2025-05-13 00:26 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (beesbuzz.biz)
 (TXT) w3m dump (beesbuzz.biz)
        
       | vasco wrote:
       | > Anxiety is one of my big vertigo trigfgers, and having this
       | thing that will make sure my car is still going straight even
       | during a vertigo attack
       | 
       | If it's serious to the point you don't know if you can keep the
       | car going straight, how can you guarantee you can stop or react
       | in other ways in an emergency? I don't see how this is OK, you
       | shouldn't be driving.
       | 
       | > There are different regulations about driving with certain
       | health conditions based on where you live. For example, South
       | Carolina and Utah, USA do not have any stipulations about driving
       | with a vestibular condition. However, US federal law requires
       | that you stop driving until any vertigo attacks are controlled
       | and well regulated.
       | 
       | https://vestibular.org/blog/should-you-drive-with-a-vestibul...
        
         | kleiba wrote:
         | Even when you "just" cannot guarantee that you can keep your
         | car in your lane, you shouldn't be driving.
        
         | fluffycritter wrote:
         | It's the fear of a vestibular attack that gives me anxiety
         | which causes a vestibular attack. These attacks last like two
         | seconds. Having a thing that keeps me lane centered has stopped
         | the vestibular attacks. If I have another big one I will
         | definitely pull over.
         | 
         | I am disabled, unemployed, and live alone and have no other
         | reliable access to transportation. What else am I supposed to
         | do? Simply stop existing?
         | 
         | I am well aware that I am taking a huge risk. It is harm
         | reduction. And as the main underlying issue is anxiety, simply
         | having a safety net (or even the perception of a safety net)
         | has significantly cut down on the anxiety.
        
           | adgjlsfhk1 wrote:
           | either move in with someone else or get an ebike/scooter? you
           | don't have a god given right to operate a 2000 pound death
           | machine.
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | > I am well aware that I am taking a huge risk.
           | 
           | Right, but you're not just risking yourself here, mate.
           | Please reconsider whether or not you should be operating
           | heavy machinery.
        
           | threeseed wrote:
           | At least you are aware that you are an increased risk every
           | time you drive.
           | 
           | Which means when you do inevitably kill someone and ruin the
           | lives of their friends and family you will be culpable and
           | spend a long time in jail.
           | 
           | You are morally on par with a drink driver and deserve zero
           | sympathy from anyone.
        
           | arp242 wrote:
           | > I am well aware that I am taking a huge risk
           | 
           | You're not the one taking the main risk though: that would be
           | the cyclists and pedestrians around you (as well as other
           | motorists, to a lesser degree).
           | 
           | I appreciate the difficulty of your situation and I really
           | don't want to be a judgemental jerk to you. But also ...
           | yeah, based on what you've written this really doesn't sit
           | well with me.
           | 
           | There's a reason people with things such as epileptic
           | seizures are not permitted to drive unless they're 1)
           | medicated for it, and 2) been free of seizures for a period
           | of time to prove the medication works reliably.
        
           | zemvpferreira wrote:
           | I'm sorry you've been dealt a bad hand but please don't make
           | it worse by risking other people's lives. You're not fit to
           | drive, period. Your circumstances don't excuse this behaviour
           | outside of an emergency.
        
         | kotaKat wrote:
         | All it'll take is one crash - or someone requesting a DMV
         | medical review.
        
       | coolcase wrote:
       | Lots if fibro stuff so if you are reading.
       | 
       | Yeah LDN I do found a bit helpful! Worth a try but ymmv. r/cfs is
       | good.
        
         | fluffycritter wrote:
         | I tried LDN, it didn't help at all unfortunately.
        
           | coolcase wrote:
           | Thanks for responding. Know what its like--I tried things
           | others have recommended to no effect.
           | 
           | LDN isn't a cure for me... just another 10% in the tank.
        
       | theparanoid wrote:
       | I bought one for my 2020 Toyota Sienna a couple months ago. The
       | best analogy is that it's like upgrading to Tesla Autopilot. It's
       | great for highway and freeway driving but not city streets.
        
         | chrischen wrote:
         | I've found it works for suburban streets really well, and I've
         | even used it for city streets with no problems. Nothing about
         | city streets makes it not work except the need to frequently
         | stop for lights and stop signs.
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Surely that's not legal to have someone with surprise vertigo
       | that impairs ability to steer a car straight on public roads?
       | 
       | That seems utterly insane to me. Even people driving with severe
       | disabilities are expected to maintain continuous control of their
       | vehicle. Anything else is willfully endangering others
        
       | dep_b wrote:
       | Anybody else thought it was about a brand of Rum as well?
        
         | nsbk wrote:
         | I thought it was tequila
        
       | farmdve wrote:
       | I like the concept of the Comma device. If only to get just one
       | feature from it, adaptive cruise control.
       | 
       | But it requires for me to not only reverse engineer, but
       | potentially also modify the firmware of my ABS unit to allow it
       | to brake, which I am not comfortable doing.
        
         | brenschluss wrote:
         | This isn't true; no reverse engineering or firmware
         | modification is necessary.
        
       | mtlynch wrote:
       | I'm still too nervous to hand driving control over to AI (from
       | any vendor), but one thing I wish existed was a system that
       | passively monitored my driving and gave me safety feedback. Like
       | if I got into a near-collision, the system would tell me what I
       | could have done earlier to avoid the risky situation to begin
       | with. Does anything like this exist for consumers?
        
         | dheatov wrote:
         | Sounds like a neat idea and potential fit with certain niche
         | market. But I would be surprise if the answer is not just drive
         | slower in most of the cases. In that case do you still want
         | more specifics like brake timing? Optimal speed given current
         | traffic condition, visibility, and curvature?
        
           | mtlynch wrote:
           | Stuff like that but also near misses. Like, "you cut off
           | another car and they had to slam the brakes."
           | 
           | There are also subtle precautions that not everyone knows.
           | For example, I was taught that when waiting for traffic to
           | clear for a left turn (in the US and other right hand driving
           | countries), I should keep the wheel straight until
           | immediately before I accelerate. That way, if someone rear
           | ends me, I go forward rather than left into oncoming traffic.
           | I suspect there are other techniques like that that I'm not
           | aware of.
        
         | AStonesThrow wrote:
         | This system is known to my father as "marriage"
        
           | mock-possum wrote:
           | r/boomershumor is that way
        
         | fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
         | > but one thing I wish existed was a system that passively
         | monitored my driving and gave me safety feedback
         | 
         | Most cars with these features also have features where they
         | will beep/vibrate at you if you're going outside of the lane or
         | it seems like you're going to have a collision.
        
       | shellfishgene wrote:
       | So in the US you can replace/add hardware to your car and install
       | some open source software on it that takes over steering and
       | braking, and this is legal? I'm amazed. Here I can't even install
       | an aftermarket blinker if it does not have the correct
       | certificates, ID numbers and documents, to be carried in the car
       | at all times.
        
         | AlotOfReading wrote:
         | The US has very lax automotive regulaions. The manufacturer has
         | to affirm that the vehicle meets road worthiness standards
         | (FMVSS) at sale and aftermarket parts aren't supposed to be
         | sold or installed if they would take vehicles out of
         | compliance. There are essentially no rules on driver
         | assistance, so there's not much that would be prohibited.
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | There are a decent number of requirements placed on
         | manufacturers, but the _use_ of vehicles in the US are
         | primarily regulated at the state level. Most states do not
         | perform safety inspections vehicles, and even when they do,
         | they are minimal in nature (e.g. do the lights work, are there
         | holes in the exhaust, are the tires and brakes worn out?)
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_Unit...
         | 
         | Police can pull someone over for faulty equipment, but that
         | would generally have to be an egregiously obvious defect.
         | 
         | From a federal level, the primary thing that is illegal to
         | modify is emissions equipment (however, if a vehicle is
         | registered in a state without inspections, even that is
         | essentially unenforced)
         | 
         | In much of the US, you can legally drive just about anything
         | with brakes, seatbelts, lights, wipers, turn signals.
        
         | mandeepj wrote:
         | > So in the US you can replace/add hardware to your car and
         | install some open source software on it that takes over
         | steering and braking, and this is legal?
         | 
         | US is a heaven for car enthusiasts, builders, fabricators,
         | modders, etc
         | 
         | As far as I know, none of the other countries allow any kind,
         | small or big, of modification to their cars. And, any changes
         | like engine oil must be done by a pro. Too bad for them,
         | they've killed a multi-billion-dollar industry themselves and
         | thousands of jobs too.
        
       | krosaen wrote:
       | I find this product appealing, but aren't you taking on full
       | liability when using it? Not having the company I buy a product
       | like this from have any liability seems like bad incentives and
       | makes me nervous, currently wouldn't drive with my family in the
       | car especially. For instance, what if there was a bug that caused
       | the system to make an abrupt right turn off the road? Seems
       | highly unlikely, but again, if they are confident it is safe, can
       | they not have some legal skin in the game to prove it?
        
         | threeseed wrote:
         | > but aren't you taking on full liability when using it
         | 
         | Of course. And if you were to do something stupid like take
         | your hands off the wheel it would constitute reckless driving.
         | Which means in an accident your warranty is void, insurance
         | claims extinguished and you would be criminally liable for any
         | bodily damage/death.
         | 
         | I will never understand the logic of anyone using a product
         | like this.
        
         | alnwlsn wrote:
         | Is this different than any other time?
         | 
         | you crash your car (mechanical problem) -> Ford says "not our
         | fault, we're not paying" -> you sue Ford -> court decides
         | 
         | you crash your car (FSD problem) -> Tesla says "not our fault,
         | we're not paying" -> you sue Tesla -> court decides
         | 
         | you crash your car (Comma problem) -> Comma says "not our
         | fault, we're not paying" -> you sue Comma -> court decides
        
           | insaneirish wrote:
           | Maybe it's me, but I think in the worse case scenario
           | (criminal liability), a jury will be more sympathetic to a
           | person (acting in good faith) that had an issue because of
           | the car manufacturer's provided system than they would to a
           | person who installed a DIY/open source self-driving system.
           | 
           | And I say this as someone who considered trying out the
           | project.
        
           | tzs wrote:
           | > you crash your car (FSD problem) -> Tesla says "not our
           | fault, we're not paying" -> you sue Tesla -> court decides
           | 
           | That's only if you sent Tesla a written notice within 30 days
           | of purchasing that you wished to opt out of the binding
           | arbitration clause in the purchase agreement you had to agree
           | to to get the car.
        
         | sathackr wrote:
         | You're responsible for what your car does period. Using
         | anything to help you drive does not absolve you of your
         | responsibility to operate your vehicle in a safe manner.
         | 
         | Any autopilot/self driving/driver assistance system with a
         | couple of very narrow exceptions(waymo etc..) is only an
         | assistant and does not remove your responsibility to operate
         | your vehicle safely.
        
       | mscbuck wrote:
       | I love my Comma 3X. You just need to have the right expectations.
       | I honestly think their motto of "making driving chill" is a
       | really apt description. I use it in traffic and on the interstate
       | almost all the time, and then on more suburban drives in that
       | 30-40mph range, which is where my Ioniq's HDA doesn't activate.
       | Also IIRC the Ioniq's HDA is map based so very frequently in the
       | city it would just straight up deactivate without any warning due
       | to construction I'm guessing messing with maps. The lateral
       | steering is so much better than the stock LKAS on my car which is
       | jerky and probably scares the living shit out of other drivers.
       | HDA2 is probably a 4/10, Comma is probably an 8/10 in terms of
       | just general driver experience. I've done multiple long (150mi+)
       | drives where I don't touch the wheel for nearly 95% of the trip.
       | 
       | The one thing I worry about though is that they really were
       | promising a lot with the new MLSIM training architecture, and
       | consensus (and my own anecdotal experience) is that these newer
       | models have not been great. They've been working on MLSIM for a
       | whiiiiiile now and there really hasn't been any improvement,
       | though I fully endorse why they are going that way and I
       | understand the difficulty of the problem.
        
         | sathackr wrote:
         | I also have the 3x for my Ioniq 5.
         | 
         | Steering is about 25% better than HDA when solely based on
         | lined lanes, but the 3X is able to adapt to situations that the
         | LKA/HDA would just disengage (such as passing through an
         | intersection) or a random car parked on the side of the road.
         | 
         | I routinely use it even on NYC streets and grass parking lots.
         | It's about 80% accurate in avoiding unexpected cars and larger
         | obstacles or following simply a "laid down" grass trail from a
         | previous car in a grass lot or field.
         | 
         | I did buy it expecting results like in the "Taco bell" video --
         | and was disappointed under those expectations at first, but
         | after a reality check I still decided to keep it and have
         | easily driven 40,000 miles with it since.
        
       | nancyminusone wrote:
       | >I really wish I could disable the endless ads for Comma Prime
       | 
       | If it's open source, why can't you?
       | 
       | >driving model ... will only get better over time
       | 
       | Citation needed
       | 
       | > I don't seem to be having as much vertigo when driving
       | 
       | If keeping your license is a goal, I wouldn't admit to this
       | publicly. That's aside the ethical issues discussed elsewhere in
       | this thread.
        
       | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
       | So I take that this sends CAN messages to borgify the steering
       | control in a car with lanekeeping. One that was never designed or
       | certified for FSD. And using only two front facing cameras. There
       | is a whole lot of legal liability taken on by the driver and
       | Comma when this Goldbergian system inevitably fails because it
       | encounters conditions never tested outside of SoCal.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | Tesla Autopilot works exactly the same way.
        
         | mdaniel wrote:
         | Comma.ai uses uploaded video from anyone[1] with a Comma device
         | to train their models, so it is most definitely not just SoCal.
         | I thought they had a few datasets available because they run
         | competitions on them but I didn't have much luck digging up
         | supporting links
         | 
         | 1: I believe it's possible to opt out, and believe it's also
         | possible to change the upload endpoint to a storage bucket that
         | you control, if you do want the segments just not for Comma to
         | have them
        
       | optimusprinceps wrote:
       | What does this thing do? The sales page doesn't help much either
       | "The comma 3X is custom hardware designed to live in your car,
       | and purpose built to run openpilot." What is openpilot??
       | 
       | To me this just looks like a generic dashcam
        
         | barnas2 wrote:
         | It's really not hard to just search "openpilot" and click the
         | first link. There's also a link at the top of the comma.ai
         | website that links to the same page.
         | 
         | https://comma.ai/openpilot
         | 
         | openpilot is an open source advanced driver assistance system
         | that works on 300+ car models of Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and
         | many other brands.                   Automated Lane Centering
         | Adaptive Cruise Control         Lane Change Assist
         | Driver Monitoring (no wheel nags)         Can drive for hours
         | without intervention         Open source and developed on
         | GitHub
        
         | davidb_ wrote:
         | It is an advanced driving assistance system. It kind of drives
         | your car for you (lane centering, basic obstacle avoidance, and
         | adaptive cruise control all without you have to touch the wheel
         | or the pedals) as long as you're looking forward and paying
         | attention to the road.
         | 
         | They have demonstrated full self driving capabilities with a
         | car driving "itself" to Taco Bell. I have a comma3 and have
         | never had much success with that feature. The car drove itself
         | very slowly and seems to just weirdly creep through stop signs.
         | I think the last time I tested that was over a year and a half
         | ago, so it may have improved.
         | 
         | I use mine only on the highways. I noticed for long trips (6+
         | hours), I can drive longer distances in one go and not feel as
         | fatigued when I reach my destination. As an example, a 10 hour
         | trip to visit family (11-12 hours including stops) I can do by
         | myself in one day with the comma device instead of stopping
         | halfway, or splitting driving time with someone else. For
         | shorter trips (3-6 hours), I arrive to my destination with more
         | energy than when I drive without these features. I am also able
         | to focus more on potential obstacles further down the road than
         | without it.
         | 
         | I think my device has already paid for itself thanks to a
         | couple year period where I had to do that 12 hour trip I
         | mentioned a couple times per month. Plus it is a really nice
         | dash cam.
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | Are you tuning out closer concerns like lane keeping or
           | smaller objects?
           | 
           | How can you be confident the system is at least as reliable
           | with the concerns you are less focused on?
        
         | overstay8930 wrote:
         | The US government made them tie their hands behind their back a
         | few years ago, NHTSA tried to shut down the company so they
         | rebranded their then Comma 2 as a dashcam that _might_ be able
         | to drive your car.
        
           | paulryanrogers wrote:
           | Golly, sure is great regulations to protect pedestrians and
           | other road users are trivially bypassed or bought off. /s
        
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