[HN Gopher] Former Supreme Court justice David Souter has died
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       Former Supreme Court justice David Souter has died
        
       Author : danso
       Score  : 81 points
       Date   : 2025-05-09 15:17 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.npr.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.npr.org)
        
       | danso wrote:
       | Maybe the first Supreme Court justice I knew by name as a child:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekpUyxovK7k
        
         | aaronbrethorst wrote:
         | it's a testament to the ubiquity of The Simpsons for millennial
         | Americans that I knew exactly what this was a link to before I
         | even clicked on it. And then I did and still laughed at it.
        
         | simcop2387 wrote:
         | What about the late Earl Warren? https://youtu.be/FUw9Eo9QqmM
         | 
         | That's the one I remember from the simpsond back then
        
         | quantumfissure wrote:
         | First thing I thought of too when I saw he died.
         | 
         | Homer's random knowledge of Supreme Court Justices mentioned
         | throughout the years never ceases to amaze me.
        
       | detourdog wrote:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWcVtWennr0
       | 
       | Here he is discussing the dangers of the erosion of civic
       | knowledge.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | He sure called it.
        
         | stevenae wrote:
         | How accurate is his claim that Augustus became emperor through
         | (my paraphrasing) democratic means and promises to fix real
         | problems for Romans?
        
           | StopDisinfo910 wrote:
           | Well, first, you have to consider that the Roman republic was
           | never really democratic but was at the hand of a small
           | aristocracy which had sometimes but rarely the interest of
           | the Romans at all, let alone the non citizen inhabitants.
           | 
           | But even, then it is definitely not accurate. Augustus gained
           | powers through the numerous conflicts which followed Caesar
           | murder at a time when the Republic was already challenged
           | thanks to legions he more or less inherited
           | (oversimplification) from Caesar. He was given powers by the
           | Senate through what we would call rubber stamping only after
           | his military power was inescapable.
        
           | roguecoder wrote:
           | I recommend "Augustus: First Emperor of Rome" by Adrian
           | Goldsworthy.
           | 
           | Given that "democratic" didn't mean the same thing then it
           | does now (with suffrage limited to a small group of the uber-
           | rich), and that some of the problems he was fixing was "the
           | threat of this army I happen to have" and "this war I
           | actively participated in", I don't think it is wrong. He
           | wasn't in Rome when the Senate awarded him power and the
           | Vestal Virgins drank in his name, which isn't something that
           | would be commanded.
           | 
           | After decades of war and strife and food shortages, peace
           | under one warlord looked more appealing than having three who
           | would likely eventually be at each other's throats.
        
             | stevenae wrote:
             | Thank you!
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | > What I worry about is that when problems are not addressed,
         | people will not know who is responsible. And when the problems
         | get bad enough--as they might do for example with another
         | serious terrorist attack, as they might do with another
         | financial meltdown--some one person will come forward and say
         | 'give me total power, and I will solve this problem'. That is
         | how the Roman republic fell: Augustus became emperor not
         | because he arrested the Roman Senate, he became emperor because
         | he promised that he would solve problems that were not being
         | solved.
         | 
         | > If we know who is responsible, I have enough faith in the
         | American people to demand performance from those responsible.
         | If we don't know, we will stay away from the polls, we will not
         | demand it, and the day will come when somebody will come
         | forward, and we and the government will, in effect, say 'take
         | the ball and run with it. Do what you have to do.' That is the
         | way democracy dies, and if something is not done to improve the
         | level of civic knowledge, that is what you should worry about
         | at night.
        
           | Amezarak wrote:
           | This is a big problem. Democracies throughout the west are
           | refusing to do anything about big problems that have populist
           | support. This is enabling authoritarianism because the
           | authoritarians present an alternative vision and promise to
           | actually do something. If mainstream parties would just take
           | real action on issues like immigration or crime it would suck
           | all the oxygen away from authoritarians.
        
             | ls612 wrote:
             | Why solve the problems when you can just outlaw populist
             | parties instead? /s
        
             | surgical_fire wrote:
             | > refusing to do anything about big problems that have
             | populist support
             | 
             | In most countries I lived in, "big problems that have
             | populist support" are completely manufactured bullshit.
             | Crime may actually be down and populists will be screaming
             | a out it, because in politics perception matters more than
             | actual numbers.
        
       | d00mB0t wrote:
       | "No not Souter! Oh nooo!"
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekpUyxovK7k
        
       | shrubble wrote:
       | He lived in New Hampshire and after the Kelo decision which
       | allowed eminent domain on a property, which he was a deciding
       | vote on, some local NH politicians tried to use Kelo to seize his
       | property, which caused a kerfluffle in the Libertarian side; if
       | it happened today I would guess it would go farther, given wider
       | divisions in politics.
        
         | ggreer wrote:
         | In Kelo v. City of New London[1], Souter sided with the
         | majority in ruling that it was constitutional for the
         | government to use eminent domain to take property from a
         | private owner and give it to another private owner. In
         | response, some people started a voter initiative to take
         | Souter's property and give it to a private developer to turn
         | into a hotel.[2] The vast majority of voters were against it,
         | and the politicians who backed it were voted out in the next
         | election.
         | 
         | 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
         | 
         | 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Liberty_Hotel
        
         | baruz wrote:
         | I remember that decision and am still indignant about it. Why
         | should the government give private land to a different private
         | party? If the government is going to take it for public use, I
         | can see the reasoning, but using eminent domain to transfer to
         | private owners is fraught.
        
           | detourdog wrote:
           | The worst part is the development didn't happen.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
        
           | alabastervlog wrote:
           | It was a _terrible_ decision.
           | 
           | Not that those are rare.
           | 
           | [EDIT] To make this a little more substantive, on an issue
           | where they _extremely plausibly_ could have decided
           | otherwise, they elected to go for the option that is
           | _plainly, guaranteed_ to be less-just. There is no universe
           | in which anyone with a brain could believe the overwhelming
           | result of this decision wouldn 't be to benefit people with
           | power and money at the expense of those without power and
           | money.
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | > the city's use of eminent domain was permissible under
             | the Takings Clause, because the general benefits the
             | community would enjoy from economic growth qualified as
             | "public use"
             | 
             | Subjective decisions are bad, like we're seeing in other
             | areas. "General benefits" can mean anything if you've got
             | cooperative judges you crammed the courts with.
             | 
             | > Not that those are rare.
             | 
             | Heller comes to mind, even as a 2a supporter.
        
               | ggreer wrote:
               | What did Heller get wrong? In the majority opinion[1]
               | they do a pretty good job of explaining why they think
               | the right to bear arms applies to the people, not just
               | the militia, and how the amendment enshrines an
               | individual right, not a collective one. In contrast, the
               | dissenting justices can't seem to agree on why the second
               | amendment doesn't apply. Stevens argues that the right to
               | bear arms and other rights (the right to assemble, the
               | right to petition the government) are collective, not
               | individual. He also claims that the second amendment only
               | applies to the militia, but he ignores that the
               | historical sources he cites define the militia as all
               | people capable of bearing arms. Breyer's dissent defines
               | the militia differently, and Breyer spends most of his
               | time arguing that the government can restrict the rights
               | of law-abiding people if the government thinks that doing
               | so will serve its interests (in this case, fighting urban
               | crime). Breyer applies this argument selectively, since
               | if he evaluated other constitutional rights in the same
               | way, it would gut all of them.
               | 
               | Banning law-abiding individuals from possessing firearms
               | may or may not be good policy, but it's hard to see how
               | it's constitutional. If people want to change that
               | policy, they'll need to amend the constitution.
               | 
               | 1. https://web.archive.org/web/20100531191739/http://www.
               | suprem...
        
       | pyrophane wrote:
       | I was active in history and civics events in high school and I
       | remember going to DC for a civics competition, and Justice David
       | Souter spoke at it.
       | 
       | I was a teenager at the time, it was the 90s, and I don't think I
       | took much of anything too seriously, but I remember being kind of
       | in awe of him. He talked about the importance of civic education
       | which to this day that remains one of my core beliefs as an
       | American.
       | 
       | A lot has changed for the worse since then, and it feels like
       | we've only gotten further from the idea that the purpose of
       | education is, more than anything else, to teach us to be better
       | citizens and participants in our democracy.
        
         | devwastaken wrote:
         | what you see is a reflection of socioeconomics caused by
         | regulatory buyout and political nepotism. "better citizens" and
         | "civic duty" may have been optimal a generation ago and are now
         | a losing strategy. remove the systems that created corps like
         | Rockefeller and you fix this problem.
        
       | senderista wrote:
       | I remember him being derided as "the stealth nominee" because he
       | didn't have much of a paper trail that could be used against him
       | in confirmation hearings. (This was of course before confirmation
       | hearings became rubber-stamps when the President's party held the
       | Senate.)
        
         | rufus_foreman wrote:
         | >> This was of course before confirmation hearings became
         | rubber-stamps when the President's party held the Senate
         | 
         | Souter was nominated in 1990. The President's party held the
         | Senate in 2005 when Harriet Miers nomination didn't even make
         | it out of committee.
         | 
         | If you're talking about an actual vote for a nominee, looks
         | like there were only four rejected candidates in the entire
         | 1900's and 2000's so far (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsucce
         | ssful_nominations_to_th...), and only one of those was when the
         | President's party held the Senate. That was in 1930. Things
         | don't seem to have changed much.
        
           | senderista wrote:
           | I wasn't referring exclusively to SCOTUS nominees. You think
           | RFK could have been confirmed 10 years ago even if the
           | President's party held the Senate?
        
             | DrillShopper wrote:
             | 10 years ago? Yes. He's a Kennedy.
        
             | rufus_foreman wrote:
             | In the past one hundred years, only 2 cabinet position
             | nominations have been rejected by a vote in the Senate, and
             | neither occurrence was when the President's party held the
             | Senate.
             | 
             | If you look at nominations that were withdrawn rather than
             | going to a vote and being rejected, President Trump has had
             | 5 withdrawn so far which is the most of any President in US
             | history.
             | 
             | I see no evidence that the process is becoming more of a
             | rubber-stamp than it was previously. If you've got some,
             | I'd like to see it.
        
       | treetalker wrote:
       | I met him at the Court once during law school.
       | 
       | He came across as the most even-keeled person in the world.
       | 
       | I asked him how he thought he had changed, if at all, throughout
       | his years on the Court. He said, "We never see ourselves as
       | others see us." I'll never forget it.
       | 
       | He'll be missed; sorry to hear that his papers won't be released
       | for 50 years.
        
         | WalterGR wrote:
         | > sorry to hear that his papers won't be released for 50 years.
         | 
         | Are they subject to Freedom of Information requests?
        
       | rhd1729 wrote:
       | Radiolab made a podcast on him, detailing about how he rose above
       | partisanship. We need more people like him in the courts.
       | 
       | Episode link:
       | https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolabmoreperfect/epi...
        
         | pstuart wrote:
         | Partisanship is effectively treason when party loyalty trumps
         | loyalty to the country.
         | 
         | We were warned from the beginning:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell...
        
         | Hilift wrote:
         | The Gingrich Revolution happened shortly after Souter arrived.
         | Republicans corrected all the previous mistakes and succeeded
         | in stacking the court after that.
        
           | rufus_foreman wrote:
           | What does "stacking the court" mean?
        
       | delichon wrote:
       | Four justices are now older than Souter was when he retired at
       | age 69. Thomas and Alito, 75, Sotomayor and Roberts, 70. Souter
       | appeared to be in good health at retirement. I admire him for not
       | clinging to power.
        
         | Izikiel43 wrote:
         | All charges should have an age limit, like 70 for Supreme
         | Court, and 65 for president/legislative.
         | 
         | Stop making the government a geriatric
        
           | edmundsauto wrote:
           | This is fair if there are minimum age requirements like for
           | the presidency.
        
             | lovich wrote:
             | Not that I necessarily agree with the OP's opinion, but who
             | cares about fair when it comes to running the government?
             | It should be about being effective.
        
       | delichon wrote:
       | Supreme Court justices are famous but not well known. Their names
       | are familiar but not their faces. For this reason, David Souter
       | and Stephen Breyer were frequently mistaken for each other. Once
       | during his tenure on the court, Souter was driving from
       | Washington to his home in New Hampshire, and he stopped in a
       | little restaurant to get something to eat. A couple came up to
       | him, and the man asked him a question.
       | 
       | "You're on the Supreme Court, right?" Souter nodded. "You're
       | Stephen Breyer, right?"
       | 
       | Souter didn't want to embarrass the fellow in front of his wife,
       | so he said yes, he was Breyer. They chatted for a little while,
       | and the fellow asked, "Justice Breyer, what's the best thing
       | about being on the Supreme Court?"
       | 
       | After a pause, the justice answered, "I'd have to say it was the
       | privilege of serving with David Souter."
       | 
       | https://x.com/WakeUp2Politics/status/1920887550496927899
        
         | freedomben wrote:
         | Hah! What an amazing story. I don't want to read too much into
         | it, but generally speaking I think you have to have some
         | genuine humility to do such a thing :-)
        
           | quesera wrote:
           | You might also enjoy this:
           | 
           | > The story of how Queen Elizabeth handled an encounter with
           | an American hiker who did not recognise her, recounted by a
           | former bodyguard who was with her that day
           | 
           | https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/what-queen-elizabeth-
           | said-w...
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-09 23:02 UTC)