[HN Gopher] "Night of the Living Dead" accidentally became publi...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       "Night of the Living Dead" accidentally became public domain (2019)
        
       Author : edavis
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2025-05-06 20:14 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (screenrant.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (screenrant.com)
        
       | gus_massa wrote:
       | Note that it was released in 1968. The law changed since then.
       | From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_notice
       | 
       | > _For works first published on or after March 1, 1989, use of
       | the copyright notice is optional. Before March 1, 1989, the use
       | of the notice was mandatory on all published works. Omitting the
       | notice on any work first published from January 1, 1978, to
       | February 28, 1989, could have resulted in the loss of copyright
       | protection if corrective steps were not taken within a certain
       | amount of time. Works published before January 1, 1978, are
       | governed by the 1909 Copyright Act. Under that law, if a work was
       | published under the copyright owner 's authority without a proper
       | notice of copyright, all copyright protection for that work was
       | permanently lost in the United States._
        
         | dahart wrote:
         | This March 1 1989 date is when the adoption of the Berne
         | Convention took effect in the US, the Berne Convention being
         | what brings the notion that registration should not be required
         | in order to have legal copyright protections. European artists
         | had that protection for ~100 years at that point. Most
         | countries in the world have adopted the Berne Convention,
         | though I learned fairly recently here on HN that the US is
         | still leaving out a few important bits like the right to sue
         | for statutory damages unless copyrights are registered.
        
           | bluGill wrote:
           | You can sue for damages if you don't have the copyright
           | registered in the US. If you have the copyright registered
           | you can sue for triple damages. (according to my mandatory
           | company copyright training, a real lawyer is welcome to
           | correct me)
           | 
           | Edit: I just remembered that you cannot sue if your copyright
           | is not registered - but you don't have to register until just
           | before you sue. Triple damages applies to anything that
           | happens after the copyright is registered, but that is the
           | only difference it makes.
        
             | tzs wrote:
             | I think your training may have confused copyrights,
             | patents, and trademarks.
             | 
             | Patent law allows triple damages in the case of willful
             | infringement, and trademark allows triple damages in the
             | case of a counterfeit mark that the infringer knew was
             | counterfeit.
             | 
             | Copyright does have some things that can increase a damage
             | award but there is no real triple damages mechanism.
             | 
             | The plaintiff in copyright gets a choice. They can ask for
             | either:
             | 
             | * The actual damages plus the profits that the infringer
             | made from the infringement. The latter is only to the
             | extent that the infringer's profits exceeded the actual
             | damages.
             | 
             | E.g., if you lost $100k due to infringement and the
             | infringer made $70k your damages would be $100k. But if the
             | infringer made $120k your damages would be $120k (the $100k
             | you lost plus the $20k the infringer made over $100k).
             | 
             | * Statutory damages. It is often very hard to figure out
             | actual damages so the law allows an alternative. If you
             | elect statutory damages the damages range from $750 to
             | $30000 per work infringed. The amount is determined by the
             | judge or jury.
             | 
             | They can be decreased to as low as $200 if the infringer
             | "was not aware and had no reason to believe that his or her
             | acts constituted an infringement of copyright".
             | 
             | They can be increase up to $150000 if the infringement is
             | found to be willful. This is the closest thing copyright as
             | to triple damages.
             | 
             | The way registration affects all of this is:
             | 
             | * You have to register before filing a copyright lawsuit.
             | There are some exceptions such as when a foreign copyright
             | owner wants to sue over a work not published in the US but
             | infringed in the US, due to Berne Convention requirements
             | but we can ignore those here.
             | 
             | * You can only collect statutory damages for infringement
             | that commences after registration (unless the registration
             | is within 3 months of first publication).
             | 
             | * You can collect actual damages and infringer profits from
             | infringement before registration.
        
       | teddyh wrote:
       | > _Night of the Living Dead 's copyright snafu ended up costing
       | him untold amounts of money in both the short and long term._
       | 
       | This has strong vibes of "If only Linus Torvalds had charged for
       | Linux, he would have been a rich man today.". It does not work
       | that way.
       | 
       | > _Somewhat ironically though, it 's Night of the Living Dead's
       | freely available nature that helped it become the revered classic
       | it is today, as easy access and constant TV airings ensured that
       | more and more people saw the film._
       | 
       | It's not "ironic", it's completely expected. If it was only an
       | old black-and-white movie, still subject to copyright, today the
       | movie would be a historical footnote at best.
        
         | dublinben wrote:
         | This is exactly the same way that It's A Wonderful Life became
         | a much-revered Christmas classic. If the copyright hadn't
         | expired allowing monthlong TV marathons, it would have faded
         | into obscurity. How many people remember The Best Years of Our
         | Lives, which beat it out for multiple Oscars in 1947?
        
           | glimshe wrote:
           | What is the middle ground? Everybody knows that "free" has a
           | huge appeal. But so does low cost, which arguably vastly
           | reduced piracy for older movies and music. It seems that
           | content providers found ways to unlock content by paying
           | creators fractions of a cent. It would be cool if there was a
           | standard way to acquire license for older content for very
           | little without dealing with the copyright headaches.
        
             | rwmj wrote:
             | Copyrighted and then falls into the public domain after 14
             | years. Plenty of time to monetize, then benefits the public
             | after a relatively short people of time.
        
               | conception wrote:
               | Or you get 10-14 years for free and after that you pay
               | for it and it gets more and more expensive the older it
               | is. Disney can keep their mouse but after 90 years its
               | 100M. 91? 105M. Etc. If it's not worth the price, let it
               | go.
        
               | idle_zealot wrote:
               | This makes sense from a purely economic perspective (if
               | you scale the fee exponentially). It does not make sense
               | from a "promote the arts" standpoint. Derivative works
               | are a huge portion of human expression, and allowing the
               | most valuable/influential ideas to be kept from the
               | public would continue (albeit to a lesser degree) the
               | creative harm of the current copyright regime.
        
               | ndriscoll wrote:
               | It shouldn't be completely free for the initial period.
               | Require a nominal fee (and registration) to pay for
               | escrow/archive storage so it can be properly released
               | into the public domain when copyright expires.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Registration basically benefits large corporations. There
               | are good reasons why a lot of individual authors oppose
               | orphan works legislation. Disney isn't going to forget or
               | screw up copyright registration. You or your kids might.
               | 
               | Totally in favor of shorter copyright terms though even
               | where there are edge cases where longer terms seemingly
               | have made sense. (In terms of promoting progress of the
               | arts, etc. or whatever the language is, I'm not sure that
               | usually fairly small inheritances qualify.)
        
               | ndriscoll wrote:
               | Registration benefits the general public, who are the
               | meant to be the beneficiaries of the whole scheme in the
               | first place. The entire purpose is to generate a larger
               | wealth of public domain material. Registration and escrow
               | ensures this happens.
        
               | Andrex wrote:
               | Giving large companies, but not the average Joe, the
               | ability to retain copyright defeats the purpose of
               | copyright being for artists.
        
               | DrillShopper wrote:
               | Copyright has been about corporations, not artists, for a
               | long time.
        
               | JadeNB wrote:
               | > Copyright has been about corporations, not artists, for
               | a long time.
               | 
               | That doesn't mean that we should lean into it.
        
               | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
               | What if copyright expired in 18 months? Same thing.
               | 
               | 14 years made sense when there were wooden printing
               | presses and the fastest communication was a rider and a
               | horse carrying a handwritten letter sealed in wax. They
               | arguably need less time to monetize today than they did
               | back then. Years-long (or, as it is now decades-long and
               | centuries-long) periods are about giving someone the
               | right to tax culture for many generations, not about
               | incentivizing creativity. It undermines the public
               | domain.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | 18 months runs into the problem of nobody being willing
               | to buy something on month 17... I'd be tempted never to
               | pay for another movie again and I suspect a large
               | fraction of people would react similarly.
               | 
               | 5 years is probably at the lower end of actually
               | extracting a large fraction of total value on most works
               | and yet not hampering cultural remixes.
        
               | NoMoreNicksLeft wrote:
               | >18 months runs into the problem of nobody being willing
               | to buy something on month 17
               | 
               | Well, that's one way to look at it. The other way is that
               | it merely limits how much it can be sold for on month 17.
               | When I was in high school, one of the big malls had a
               | dollar-a-ticket movie theater. People would pay for
               | things that are more easily/cheaply available soon, they
               | just won't pay the premiums demanded now.
               | 
               | But there's a third way to look at it... the idea that
               | they never owned the intellectual property anyway. It
               | always belonged to the public domain, they had a
               | temporary lease. And in that view, the idea that they'd
               | have trouble extracting maximum dollars from it on the
               | day before the lease ends is absurd. No one cares, nor
               | should they care.
               | 
               | >I'd be tempted never to pay for another movie again a
               | 
               | Why aren't you tempted for that now? I gave in to that
               | temptation, and it is the superior experience. I can do
               | all the streaming I need, to any of my devices (or my
               | friends' devices) anywhere in the world. Everything on
               | demand, from every premium channel and streaming service,
               | in the highest resolution. Every minute or every day. I
               | read comments here and elsewhere about people complaining
               | how they have to cancel Netflix, the show's over, but
               | they have to resubscribe to Disney because the new show's
               | on, etc. It's all bizarre. The stuff you guys are willing
               | to put up with is mind-boggling.
               | 
               | >5 years is probably at the lower end of actually
               | extracting a large fraction of total value
               | 
               | You should be concerned with whether they can extract
               | their costs, plus modest profit. Not "value". The
               | magnitude of the grift in the industry that gave us the
               | term "Hollywood accounting" is beyond human imagination
               | or capacity to comprehend. Stop enabling that.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | > Why aren't you tempted for that now? I gave in to that
               | temptation, and it is the superior experience.
               | 
               | Ethics
               | 
               | > You should be concerned with whether they can extract
               | their costs, plus modest profit.
               | 
               | The creative industry isn't wildly profitable. Slash the
               | amount of money movies/books/etc make on average and you
               | dramatically reduce the amount of movies/books/etc
               | published.
               | 
               | After all we could totally remove copyright, but then you
               | don't get leech off the fruits of other people's labor if
               | they never preform that labor.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | _Slash the amount of money movies /books/etc make on
               | average and you dramatically reduce the amount of
               | movies/books/etc published._
               | 
               | Published _for profit_.
               | 
               | There are numerous other incentives to produce books.
               | 
               | Schopenhauer has something to say about publication for
               | profit:
               | 
               | <https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Art_of_Literature/On_
               | Auth...>
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Hogwash.
               | 
               | Producing books without a profit motive requires some
               | other means to support the vast time investment. Thus
               | robbing the world of great works from those lesser
               | creatures who still need to work for a living.
               | 
               | The only _loss_ is competition drowning out the works of
               | well off but talentless people. We'll get vanity projects
               | either way, what we lose is however irreplaceable.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Profit motive's not doing much for great works of
               | literature:
               | 
               | "The Big Five Publishers Have Killed Literary Fiction"
               | (2024)
               | 
               |  _Serious readers must expand their tastes to the small
               | presses._
               | 
               | <https://www.persuasion.community/p/the-big-five-
               | publishers-h...>
               | 
               | I've some direct exposure to this in my role of keeping a
               | visually-deprived friend in books, going through a very
               | large national library's collection of 300k+ audiobooks.
               | Their tastes tend to run through mid-20th-century
               | literary works, largely European authors. We've at least
               | sampled some 2k--4k titles (it's difficult to get a
               | precise count through the tools I'm using though I think
               | I might be able to squeeze that out).
               | 
               | I've had to get immensely creative with searches
               | (something I've many decades of experience with myself),
               | and trust me, lists of recognised literary awards have
               | been squeezed for all they're worth. There's simply
               | little published since 1970 that's of remote interest.
               | 
               | I'll allow that some of that is due to frustratingly
               | narrow tastes. But seeing articles such as I've linked
               | above rather reinforces my view.
               | 
               | There _is_ a lot of popular and some mid-list work. But
               | Great Fiction? If it 's being produced, it's also getting
               | buried by sludge.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | The big five are hardly the only purveyors of for profit
               | works.
               | 
               | Go back through any list of the great works and you'll
               | find a great deal of populist authors. Shakespeare,
               | Dickens, Herman Melville, etc were producing the exact
               | kinds of works you're looking down on.
               | 
               | Perhaps something fundamentally changed, but it seems
               | more likely bias is talking here.
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | William Shakespeare (c. 23 April 1564 - 23 April 1616)
               | predates the first modern copyright law, the Statute of
               | Anne (1710), by roughly a century. His income came from
               | _performances_ , that is, asses in seats, not book sales.
               | His posthumous _fame_ came in large part from the fact
               | that those published plays were free from copyright
               | encumberance and could be performed or published without
               | licence fee.
               | 
               | Dickens pioneered the model of serial publication on
               | which other authors of his time (notably Tolstoy) made
               | much comment.
               | 
               | You've failed to mention Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens), who
               | was constantly in debt, damned near killed himself with
               | one of his two possessions (a revolver, the other being a
               | nickel), broke and unemployed in San Francisco. His
               | relative financial flush later in life was largely due to
               | his father-in-law's support. And asses-in-seats on the
               | lecture circuit.
               | 
               | Melville, like many other authors (F. Scott Fitzgerald of
               | _Gatsby_ fame comes to mind) saw a greatly-increased fame
               | _after_ his death, with _Moby Dick_ becoming
               | reestablished on the centennial of Melville 's birth,
               | some 28 years after his death. Melville worked during his
               | life as a clerk, sailor, and farmer. His writing career
               | met with very limited financial success. His _works_ were
               | great, no doubt, his _income_ failed to measure up, and
               | could hardly be considered his chief incentive. Later in
               | life, like Twain, Melville benefitted by inheritance and
               | lectures.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | The point you seemed to have missed was each of them were
               | _populist authors._. To look down on populist writing is
               | to misunderstand western literature.
               | 
               | Further we never got to read a book by Shakespeare
               | _because_ of the lack of copyright at the time. Imagine a
               | world where he had more time to devote to such things.
               | 
               | Similarly Dickens was hampered by being paid by the word.
               | 
               | Melville on the other hand wrote Moby-Dick through the
               | commercial success of less famous works. What happened
               | later in life isn't particularly relevant here, what's
               | generally considered the greatest work of western
               | literature was completely dependent on someone being paid
               | for their writing. It wasn't some breakout novel from a
               | new writer it's the culmination of serious refinement of
               | his talents that takes not just inspiration and life
               | experience but time.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | > _The creative industry isn't wildly profitable_
               | 
               | There are a lot of profits in the industry, but as I
               | think you're alluding to, not a great proportion of those
               | profits go to the creators.
               | 
               | I want a model where I can compensate artists and
               | creators (up to and including producers) equally to (or
               | better than) the distribution and marketing arms. This
               | can be cobbled together in some cases, but not simply.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | > not a great proportion of those profits go to the
               | creators
               | 
               | That's often stated but misses the underlying reality is
               | that the money is mostly spent on things which increase
               | revenue. An unadvertised movie means less people pay for
               | tickets, remove it and there's less to go to everyone
               | else.
               | 
               | > equally to (or better than) the distribution and
               | marketing arms.
               | 
               | Obviously there's fat to be cut from these industries but
               | being a self published author isn't some shortcut to
               | success and would become even harder with very short
               | copyright terms.
               | 
               | Some authors are finding success on Patreon etc, but it
               | further limits the talent pool by requiring more than
               | just being a good writer.
        
               | quesera wrote:
               | You're right. Marketing is expensive. Distribution is
               | cheap these days, but often the two functions are
               | colocated.
               | 
               | I would even posit that many popular creative works are
               | commercially worthless, absent the expensive marketing.
               | And in some cases, the marketing comes first and the
               | creative work is basically an effort to fulfill the
               | marketing spec. Implicitly or explicitly.
               | 
               | But like venture capital, the entertainment industry is
               | sustained by the huge successes, and they are motivated
               | to overspend on every attempt. This _works_ in VC (for
               | founders at least) but it doesn 't work well for artists.
               | 
               | I don't have a solution, but I wish for something that
               | would bypass the go-big-or-go-home model while fostering
               | organic success. (And I'm thinking of the music industry
               | primarily. Movies and books occupy different spots on the
               | continuum, though some of the same issues do apply.)
        
               | bluGill wrote:
               | It takes more than 18 months for many good works to get
               | through all the editing processes. You can tell when
               | publishers skip on that time as the quality is worse.
        
               | rakoo wrote:
               | elevates*
               | 
               | Language has meaning, and the puplic domain is a better
               | situation for society. It is more interesting to say it
               | ascended
        
             | rakoo wrote:
             | Piracy is only bad if you want to earn money for each eye
             | watching a minute of a movie. What we're doing right now is
             | piracy, no one pays anyone anything for content
             | 
             | The question shouldn't be about how much it costs but why
             | do things cost anything in the beginning, and if they have
             | to what is the amount a specific piece should be retributed
             | for its contribution to society minus how the non-zero cost
             | impacts society.
             | 
             | AIs are being let off the hook with their massive copyright
             | infringement but when a movie being open directly benefits
             | everyone suddenly that's a problem.
        
               | entropicdrifter wrote:
               | >Piracy is only bad if you want to earn money for each
               | eye watching a minute of a movie. What we're doing right
               | now is piracy, no one pays anyone anything for content
               | 
               | This is utterly nonsensical. You've invented a new
               | definition of piracy to try to claim that streaming
               | services are piracy.
               | 
               | Specifically at this point:
               | 
               | >no one pays anyone anything for content
               | 
               | This is literally factually incorrect. Netflix pays
               | billions per year to copyright holders. Just because it's
               | indirect payment in the form of a subscription doesn't
               | mean you're not paying for the right to view content.
        
             | graemep wrote:
             | The middle ground could be a lot of different things. One
             | might be a reformed copyright system.
             | 
             | The economist I know of who calculated a socially optimal
             | copyright duration, Rufus Pollock, came up with an estimate
             | of 20 something years.
             | 
             | This makes sense from the point of view of finance because
             | the NPV of extra years beyond this is very low. To put it
             | in qualitative terms, no one is thinking about their
             | grandchildren's pensions when they decide to create a work.
             | 
             | Personally I would also have different durations and rules
             | for different types of work: a book, a video, and a piece
             | of software are very different works and need diffferent
             | incentives
        
           | drewcoo wrote:
           | /me raises hook hand . . . Myrna Loy . . .
        
           | Finnucane wrote:
           | I've seen The Best Years of Our Lives several times; it plays
           | regularly on TCM.
        
           | stuart78 wrote:
           | The Best Years of Our Lives is a genuine classic. Complex
           | narrative, brilliant cinematography and performances. It is a
           | much more difficult film than It's A Wonderful Life, and
           | absolutely worth watching.
        
         | Ecgberht wrote:
         | > If it was only an old black-and-white movie, still subject to
         | copyright, today the movie would be a historical footnote at
         | best.
         | 
         | That's a very ungenerous take. The film is very good and was
         | revolutionary for it's time. Check out other horror films from
         | the same era and the tone is completely different. Night of the
         | Living Dead changed what horror films could be.
         | 
         | And there's plenty of old black and white movies still in
         | copyright that are highly regarded as classics so I don't know
         | what that has to do with anything.
        
           | derbOac wrote:
           | I share your perspective; my guess is if it was copyrighted
           | it probably would have had the same status. My guess is it
           | would have been distributed relatively cheaply with the same
           | outcome.
           | 
           | However, I also think it's reasonable to posit it might not
           | have attained the same status had it not gone out of
           | copyright. Easy access can really affect awareness and buzz
           | around films, especially in certain genres like horror.
           | 
           | Horror films were already shifting in tone by 1968. Psycho
           | was a 1960 release, for example, and The Birds was released
           | in 1963. Carnival of Souls has a similar aesthetic as Night
           | of the Living Dead and was released in 1962.
        
             | dfxm12 wrote:
             | The movie invented the zombie genre as we know it today,
             | was made by George Romero, which is a credential in an of
             | itself, and Duane Jones' performance as Ben would stand out
             | today almost as much as it did back then. These points,
             | along with the film being poignant and entertaining as hell
             | would ensure that generation after generation would would
             | keep coming back. Remember, lots of films are out of
             | copyright. Not a lot of such films made as much money or
             | have the staying power as Night of the Living Dead.
             | 
             | On top of this, genre films in general, and horror
             | specifically, if anything, have rabid fans that go out of
             | their way to watch movies because of their genre,
             | regardless of accessibility or buzz. Again, George Romero's
             | involvement alone would make sure that even a passing fan
             | of horror (or budding cinephiles) would seek it out.
        
           | teddyh wrote:
           | > _Night of the Living Dead changed what horror films could
           | be._
           | 
           | And this would indeed merit the film a historical footnote.
           | But it would be virtually unavailable, and nobody in a
           | position to make it available would take the chance on an
           | ancient black-and-white film. And it would therefore in all
           | likelihood languish in obscurity.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | We had (many) version of Unix that were superior to Linux for a
         | very long time. We can reasonable debate what Sun (in
         | particular) should have done differently with SunOS/Solaris and
         | Java in particular, but a for-pay-only version of Linux would
         | just have been a fairly mediocre Unix variant.
        
         | joekrill wrote:
         | > This has strong vibes of "If only Linus Torvalds had charged
         | for Linux, he would have been a rich man today.". It does not
         | work that way.
         | 
         | Not at all similar. Linus explicitly made his software free.
         | Romero didn't _intentionally_ exclude the copyright notice, and
         | had no explicit intention of making it free.
         | 
         | > It's not "ironic", it's completely expected. If it was only
         | an old black-and-white movie, still subject to copyright, today
         | the movie would be a historical footnote at best.
         | 
         | "completely expected" is quite a stretch. Simply making it
         | public domain wouldn't be enough. It still has to be a good
         | movie. I'm sure there are countless other public domain black-
         | and-white movies that no one has ever heard of.
        
           | entropicdrifter wrote:
           | >I'm sure there are countless other public domain black-and-
           | white movies that no one has ever heard of.
           | 
           | See: MST3K and RiffTrax
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | Did the distributor really have sufficient ownership of the movie
       | to release a minor altered version into the public domain?
       | 
       | I remember a long time ago a language study startup called
       | smart.fm released their material on RSS under a copy left
       | license. Problem was that they didn't mean to give it away, but
       | worse, they didn't have the license to relicense the material
       | like that.
       | 
       | I kinda wonder where that puts redistribution of that material.
        
         | cobbzilla wrote:
         | It wasn't a relicense, the copyright was never validly filed
         | (date was missing), so the copyright was never registered. Only
         | registered copyrights can be enforced in the US. No
         | registration, no enforcement rights. Or at least that's my
         | layman's understanding, happy to be corrected.
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | This is not the case. If registration were required in the
           | US, 99.999999% of software ever written would be effectively
           | public domain.
        
             | cobbzilla wrote:
             | 99.9999999% of software written is not published, it's
             | covered by trade secret law. Copyright only applies to
             | published works. Look into what happens legally when source
             | code is leaked and published.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | its covered by trade secret and copyright.
               | 
               | Software can simultaneously be covered by copyright,
               | trade secret and patents. The patents have to disclose
               | some info, of course.
               | 
               | Even when distributed you can distribute just the binary,
               | and keep the source a trade secret.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | The copyright rules have changed. Registration and a proper
             | notice was required when this film was published.
             | 
             | Now, fixing a creative work in a tangible medium is all
             | that's required. When does the copyright expire? Nobody
             | will know, because there's no year of publication listed,
             | and no author listed to find out when they die. (Even if
             | there is an author listed by name, maybe it was me; maybe
             | it was the Pulitzer Prize winning author)
        
           | kmoser wrote:
           | > This error occurred after the film's title was changed from
           | its original moniker Night of the Flesh Eaters. Prints with
           | that title contained the copyright notice, but when new
           | prints were created using the title Night of the Living Dead,
           | the copyright notice was forgotten.
           | 
           | This begs the question: if the original movie was
           | copyrighted, how does releasing the same movie with a
           | different title make the new re-release considered a new
           | (not-yet-copyrighted) work? I thought the copyright
           | protection of the original would extend to the renamed
           | version, since they're 99.99% the same. Theoretically, does
           | changing even one frame necessitate a new copyright?
        
             | bluGill wrote:
             | Remember we need to talk about law as it existed back when
             | this happened not the law today. Back then you didn't get
             | copyright protection unless you registered with the
             | copyright office (and a few other things that I'm not quite
             | sure of - none relevant to the law today). So the copyright
             | was never registered, likely because the distributor was
             | expected to register it and they failed to do their job.
             | There might be a lawsuit against the distributor for breach
             | of contract, but it wouldn't be a copyright lawsuit.
             | 
             | Today things are much easier, if you create something it is
             | copyright. If you want to sue you need to register, but you
             | can register at anytime. If you register you can sue for
             | triple damages for anything that happens after you
             | register, but you can still get damages for things that
             | happened before your register. (The above is my
             | understanding of the law, but I'm not a lawyer)
        
         | sumtechguy wrote:
         | > Did the distributor really have sufficient ownership of the
         | movie to release a minor altered version into the public
         | domain?
         | 
         | Probably yes. The way movies are financed is quite the
         | byzantine joy ride if you want to look into it. With random tax
         | incentives depending on where you make it. To finance groups
         | that get control of entire regions. There are quite a large
         | number of videos from independent filmmakers on what is going
         | on. You hear things like 'Disney lost XYZ on a movie'. More
         | than likely they lost someone else's money making sure they
         | recoup first. Like for example the OG star wars has yet to
         | recoup. Probably for some segments of the corporate structure
         | that was created to make that movie that is probably true.
         | Hollywood accounting is a huge mess. So yeah he probably signed
         | off particular distribution rights to get the money to
         | make/distribute the thing.
         | 
         | Many TV show pilots probably fall into the same issue too. I
         | have not dug into it too much but the original pilot of star
         | trek did not have one until a re-release decades later with an
         | obvious digital watermark.
        
         | ralferoo wrote:
         | I guess stuff like this would have already been thrashed out at
         | the time, but it strikes me that if a mistake by a third party
         | could invalidate copyright, it'd have been trivial to end the
         | copyright on anything by releasing an unauthorised version
         | without a copyright notice.
         | 
         | I guess it's complicated because the first release with this
         | title was absent the copyright notice, but the article also
         | says that prints existed with the previous title and a
         | copyright notice, so if they were distributed at all, it'd seem
         | to be a slam dunk that it'd be covered by copyright on the
         | original title and the retitled copy without copyright notices
         | was infringing.
        
           | sidewndr46 wrote:
           | It isn't the case that a third party mistake can invalidate
           | copyright. But if a third party does so & other groups start
           | treating it as public domain it is on the actual rightsholder
           | to prove they still hold the copyright.
           | 
           | In the case of a self published book, it's pretty obvious. In
           | the case a movie production or otherwise, it gets difficult
           | really fast. Throw in some corporate mergers, acquisitions, &
           | bankruptcies and now you're looking at paying a small team of
           | legal professionals to do research to construct a paper trail
           | for ownership. If the work in question is valuable, obviously
           | it gets done.
           | 
           | In the modern era there is a basically endless stream of
           | video games from a 2-3 decades back where the ownership is
           | completely unclear. The actual video game release rights
           | might be held by one shell company, the video game source
           | code could be held by another group (or even the original
           | author, depending on how lazy people were), and the assets
           | themselves might be held by another group if it was a
           | "branded" or similar content.
        
       | Malic wrote:
       | The same thing happened to the 1963 movie "Charade" (with Cary
       | Grant and Audrey Hepburn):
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charade_(1963_film)#Public-dom...
        
       | nico wrote:
       | It's wild that copyright lasts this long (life of author + 70
       | years after death)
        
       | mathgeek wrote:
       | > an unfortunate error accidentally made it public domain
       | 
       | Never have I been so torn on my opinion of whether or not this
       | was truly "unfortunate".
        
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