[HN Gopher] ACE-Step: A step towards music generation foundation...
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       ACE-Step: A step towards music generation foundation model
        
       Author : wertyk
       Score  : 105 points
       Date   : 2025-05-06 20:38 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | frankfrank13 wrote:
       | Fun to play with!
        
       | hammock wrote:
       | Is there a demo hosted somewhere?
        
         | frankfrank13 wrote:
         | - https://ace-step.github.io/
         | 
         | - https://huggingface.co/spaces/ACE-Step/ACE-Step
        
       | Rodeoclash wrote:
       | As a musician, the things I want most from generative AI is:
       | 
       | 1. Being able to have the AI fill in a track in the song, but use
       | the whole song as input to figure out what to generate. Ideally
       | for drums this would be a combination of individual drum hits,
       | effects and midi so I'm able to tweak it after generation. If it
       | used the Ableton effects and drum rack then that would be
       | perfect.
       | 
       | 2. Take my singing and make it both sound great and like any
       | combination of great singers (e.g. give me a bit of Taylor Swift
       | combined with Cat Power)
       | 
       | I've had a play with the style transfer between singers (bullet
       | point 2 above) but when I last tried it, it was garbage in /
       | garbage out, and my singing is garbage.
       | 
       | What I don't want: To just generate a whole song. Adobe does this
       | style of assistive AI well in the photo editing space but no one
       | seems to have brought it to audio yet.
        
         | pelagic_sky wrote:
         | Exactly. I don't want AI to make me a song. I want it to switch
         | up my baseline or chords or recommend a fill instrument.
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | Logic Pro comes the closest to this with the addition of
         | virtual drummers. You can assign it to follow certain rhythmic
         | timings by connecting it to a main instrument track, and by
         | labeling sections of your song (bridge, chorus, etc) you can
         | regenerate until you find something you're happy with.
         | 
         | It's a far cry from having a real drummer, but it works in a
         | pinch.
        
         | viraptor wrote:
         | Spark amp is now advertising with some interesting AI options.
         | https://au.positivegrid.com/products/spark-2 As far as I
         | understand it can attempt to generate backing drums (and
         | music?) for jamming, which sounds great for practicing.
        
         | dstorm1 wrote:
         | I think you might like https://soundry.ai they are working on a
         | feature that is just like 1.
        
         | nprateem wrote:
         | I think the big limiting factor is having it learn what the
         | infinite number of parameters in different synths, etc actually
         | make it sound like, and then being able to make the model be
         | able to produce music by using and configuring them instead of
         | just spaffing out crap music.
         | 
         | If it could do that it'd give the tweakability it needs, but I
         | think it would basically involve training a model for each
         | instrument.
        
       | architectonic wrote:
       | How do the quality and prompt adherence compare to Suno v4?
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | > RapMachine
       | 
       | Fine-tuned on pure rap data to create an AI system specialized in
       | rap generation Expected capabilities include AI rap battles and
       | narrative expression through rap Rap has exceptional storytelling
       | and expressive capabilities, offering extraordinary application
       | potential
       | 
       | Using a certain other music generator I got it to accidentally
       | say ***. It said it with a Latino American accent too.
       | 
       | In fact for whatever reason this tool couldn't use a typical AAVE
       | voice. Just Sage Francis / Atmosphere like dictionary raps and a
       | few Latino American ones.
       | 
       | A big limitation of AI sloop is it tries to not offend anyone.
       | 
       | Art that can't even try to offend is barely art.
        
         | Duwensatzaj wrote:
         | > Art that can't even try to offend is barely art.
         | 
         | Good art is secondary to avoiding some journalist writing a hit
         | piece about how they used your company's AI generator to depict
         | Hitler saying the gamer word.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | AI generated articles about ai generated music which is
           | generated from reading ai generated articles.
           | 
           | Shall it continue in an unholy loop until the end of time ?
        
           | lwansbrough wrote:
           | To be fair, nothing AI generated is inherently "good art" if
           | you take artistic intent into account.
        
             | justlikereddit wrote:
             | Mixing paint in your rectum with the intention of making
             | good art will always rate lower than AI slop
        
               | nxpnsv wrote:
               | *citation needed
        
         | skybrian wrote:
         | Instrumental music doesn't count as art? Come on.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | Instrumental music can absolutely offend!
           | 
           | It can challenge the old standards, it can push genres into
           | new places.
           | 
           | AI music can't. It's too safe.
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | > Instrumental music can absolutely offend!
             | 
             | The Rite of Spring (Stravinsky) has entered the chat!
             | 
             | And if that's not offensive enough, Music in Similar Motion
             | by Glass, or Metal Machine Music by Pat Metheny or any of
             | Glenn Branca's "guitar symphonies" will likely do the job
             | for most people.
        
               | resize2996 wrote:
               | Lou Reed - Metal Machine Music
               | 
               | Pat Metheny - Zero Tolerance for Silence
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | Also Peaches in Regalia by Zappa.
               | 
               | Or anything 4/4 in some areas at a certain time.
        
             | skybrian wrote:
             | Maybe some specific implementations are "too safe," but I
             | don't believe that there's any combination of notes that an
             | AI couldn't generate, in theory.
        
               | ComplexSystems wrote:
               | In theory no, but so far most of these things are
               | severely overfit to 2010s-era pop music. They are best
               | described as muzak generators
        
             | bongodongobob wrote:
             | If you think it's too safe you haven't tried. This took me
             | 5 minutes with almost no thought just to make the point.
             | 
             | https://suno.com/s/5bXmu47Iv1o0xR9U
             | 
             | https://suno.com/s/4pWqmP1zP97LsK8k
             | 
             | https://suno.com/s/ETXPsm6eYwMoiphR
        
           | Alex_001 wrote:
           | Music, in any form, is definitely art. Instrumentals can
           | convey emotions and stories just as powerfully as lyrics --
           | sometimes even more. It's all about what it makes you feel.
        
         | Telemakhos wrote:
         | > Art that can't even try to offend is barely art.
         | 
         | I do not believe that offense is a necessary or sufficient
         | component of art. If I raise my middle finger at someone, that
         | is not art, but rather offense. If I view Botticelli's
         | Primavera, I'm looking at art, and I detect no intent to
         | offend, nor do I take offense.
         | 
         | There is certainly room for offense within art: the iambic
         | poetry of Archilochus and Hipponax manages to blend aesthetic
         | beauty with ardent invective. But I do not think that art
         | _needs_ or is defined by offense. Offense is accidental to art
         | as a concept.
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | >Primavera (Italian pronunciation: [prima've:ra], meaning
           | "Spring") is a large panel painting in tempera paint by the
           | Italian Renaissance painter Sandro Botticelli made in the
           | late 1470s or early 1480s (datings vary). It has been
           | described as "one of the most written about, and most
           | controversial paintings in the world",[1] and also "one of
           | the most popular paintings in Western art".[2]
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primavera_(Botticelli)
           | 
           | If it's described as controversial, it obviously offended
           | someone if not today, in the past.
        
             | Telemakhos wrote:
             | Not in the least. Controversy doesn't mean offense. The
             | controversies around the painting relate to its
             | interpretation, to who the model for the main figure might
             | be, to the reasons for the number of variety of plants in
             | the painting... none of which offer offense.
             | 
             | Controversy and debate do not have to be offensive or even
             | acrimonious, and controversies can arise around a subject
             | like a painting without arising because of any offense
             | given in the painting.
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | Many cultures would regard the content of the painting to
               | be inappropriate though.
               | 
               | Offense doesn't need to mean that it's meant to shock.
               | 
               | I suspect most mainstream AI art generators would refuse
               | to replicate it. Doing so would "offend" the original
               | art.
               | 
               | But a human artist could, perhaps a talented woman flips
               | the gender.
               | 
               | Humans will always be able to challenge us in ways AIs
               | can't.
               | 
               | At home and around close friends I often speak in AAVE.
               | It's apart of my culture and at a core level, me.
               | 
               | When an AI rap generator decides it can't do AAVE, it's
               | saying the very identity that created rap in the first
               | place is offense. I don't expect a masterpiece like
               | Illmatic, but I've yet to hear anything decent from an AI
               | rap generator.
        
         | dragonwriter wrote:
         | > A big limitation of AI sloop is it tries to not offend
         | anyone.
         | 
         | That tends to be very true of major commercially-hosted and
         | proprietary systems, and true (but somewhat less and less
         | consistently so) of open foundation models from corporations
         | and big labs, but community models (including community fine
         | tunes of big-vendor open models) much less so. This is very
         | visible in LLMs, image models, and video models right now.
         | 
         | Rap (and even music more generally) models don't have as much
         | attention right now, but I suspect if/as they get more
         | attention and community use the same dynamic is likely to
         | emerge.
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | The diagram is super vague. How are the lyrics encoded? What does
       | the encoder look like inside? What is the input size, input
       | format, output size, output format? Are the three encoder outputs
       | added? Concatentated? When Mert and m-Hubert combine are they
       | added? Multiplied? Subtracted? Concatenated?
       | 
       | I really wish people could make better diagrams.
        
       | lilcrise wrote:
       | VPS 4 Cores SSD Disk Space: 200 GB CPU cores: 4 RAM: 4 GB Ubuntu
       | Server 22.04 can it run on vps server this small?
        
       | montag wrote:
       | The experimental section was most interesting: https://ace-
       | step.github.io/#Experimental
       | 
       | Puh tss puh tss Kshhh ff kshhh ff Bmm tkk bmm tkk Drr-dr-d-d-dt
        
       | l72 wrote:
       | I want to play something on my keyboard (the only instrument I am
       | slightly ok at) and then be able to tell it to play it with a
       | saxophone and describe exactly how I want it played. I don't need
       | an AI to create a song for me, I need 100 session musicians at my
       | disposal to create the song I want. I am very excited about
       | having that type of ai.
        
         | spyder wrote:
         | Here is a cool demonstration to do voice-to-instrument or
         | instrument-to-another instrument (The inconvenient thing is
         | that for a new kind of output sound you have to train a model
         | for around 1 hour for good quality, but after that you can use
         | it with different inputs quickly):
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/lI1LCfTx2lI?t=525
         | 
         | There is also Kits.ai https://www.kits.ai/tools/ai-instruments
        
       | Alex_001 wrote:
       | Really interesting -- we're seeing more efforts now to bring the
       | "foundation model" approach to creative domains like music, but I
       | wonder how well these models can internalize musical structure
       | over long time scales. Has anyone here compared ACE-Step to
       | something like MusicGen or Riffusion in terms of coherence across
       | entire compositions?
        
         | nprateem wrote:
         | They always fail with structure. The progressions often meander
         | aimlessly and eventually go to weird places, at least IME.
        
       | gitroom wrote:
       | Man, this whole topic hits way harder than I expected. AI taking
       | shots at music creation makes me feel a bit hyped but also kinda
       | iffy, especially when I hear people say it plays it way too safe.
       | You think keeping things safe in AI art helps anyone actually
       | level up or just holds us all back?
        
         | phatskat wrote:
         | If the "Guns in butts" / "my wife is a jar of dirt" songs are
         | any indication, I don't know how "safe" it will be, at least as
         | far as content goes.
         | 
         | I'm similarly hyped and iffy. If you could have a model that
         | listens to a looping segment to contextualize it, and then play
         | with other patterns on top but through a more expressive way
         | (or even humming/singing and allowing the LLM of sorts to
         | compose it together), that could be interesting. Would it be
         | panned for being AI-assisted? I'd hope not, I think?
         | 
         | "I hear you're buying a synthesizer and an arpeggiator and are
         | throwing your computer out the window because you want to make
         | something real. You want to make a Yaz record. I hear that you
         | and your band have sold your guitars and bought turntables. I
         | hear that you and your band have sold your turntables and
         | bought guitars."
         | 
         | We just add AI in whatever forms it takes to the list I
         | suppose.
        
       | briga wrote:
       | Interesting how there is no mention of how the training data for
       | this was collected. This does sound quite a bit better than
       | Meta's MusicGen, but then again that model was also trained on a
       | small licensed dataset.
        
         | platers wrote:
         | It sounds very similar to suno v3.5 (including the audio
         | quality) Likely they trained on suno generations.
        
       | Semaphor wrote:
       | > aggressive, Heavy Riffs, Blast Beats, Satanic Black Metal
       | 
       | Result: A generic pop-rock song without riffs or blast beats. Not
       | even power metal or corset core, let alone anything even slightly
       | resembling Black Metal.
       | 
       | Yup. Still doing what I expect from AI music.
        
       | everdrive wrote:
       | Yes, please ruin music. Ruin everything you can. As long as you
       | can build it, you should ruin it. There's really no limit. It's
       | the masses who will actually do the ruining, so those building
       | the technology are totally blameless. And you might even make
       | some money, so it's all worth it.
        
         | lc9er wrote:
         | These music/art AI threads are always gross. Make things for
         | the joy of creating. Prompting some AI model doesn't make you a
         | musician - it actively robs you of the thing that's rewarding
         | about actually creating something.
        
           | awwaiid wrote:
           | Some get joy from creating generative tools/models!
        
           | gavinray wrote:
           | Have you considered that some people produce music solely for
           | aesthetic purposes?
           | 
           | The main genre of music I listen to is electronic.
           | 
           | Many electronic songs are written to evoke a specific
           | feeling, without meaningful lyrics.
           | 
           | When I produce electronic music, I have no particular lyrics
           | or composition in mind.
           | 
           | I just fiddle around with different sound layers going for a
           | particular "vibe" and mash things together until they sound
           | good to me.
           | 
           | I see AI as another tool to expedite this process.
        
             | lc9er wrote:
             | Sure. If your music means nothing to you, than by all
             | means, make it with methods that remove all agency from the
             | process.
             | 
             | I've written instrumental/electronic music, too. When I do,
             | it means something to me. The last thing I want is for an
             | AI to make it for me.
        
         | ronsor wrote:
         | A tool existing doesn't ruin anything. Genuinely stop being so
         | dramatic and learn to ignore things you don't like. Our society
         | would be a lot better and calmer if people did that rather than
         | start pointless crusades.
        
         | api wrote:
         | People said this about photography. It ruined painting, and it
         | did in fact put a lot of portrait painters out of business
         | because in that era the reason you hired them was not for art.
         | It was for a photograph made with brushes.
         | 
         | This is a good read on photography and art. Note that the
         | rhetoric sounds almost identical to today's AI rhetoric.
         | 
         | "If photography is allowed to supplement art in some of its
         | functions, it will soon supplant or corrupt it altogether,
         | thanks to the stupidity of the multitude which is its natural
         | ally." - Charles Baudelaire
         | 
         | https://medium.com/@aaronhertzmann/how-photography-became-an...
         | 
         | I don't think AI is a threat to _actual art_ at all. If I want
         | art, I explicitly do not want slop churned out of a model. I
         | want something created by a human being to communicate
         | something. That 's the entire point.
         | 
         | Some around here will argue that there have been double blind
         | tests showing that people sometimes can't tell the difference
         | between AI output and human art. That is missing the point too.
         | Knowing who the artist is is part of the artistic experience.
         | If someone deepfake calls you with a model imitating your
         | friend, is it the same as talking to your friend? The
         | parasociality of art is part of it.
         | 
         | It may -- as photography did with portraiture -- be a threat to
         | some of the ways that artists make a living, and I do
         | understand the pushback from that. Back before photography a
         | lot of painters made a living being cameras, and all that work
         | dried up pretty fast. Today AI is replacing all the "filler"
         | churned out by artists. The only silver lining I guess is that
         | artists generally hate this work and it never paid well.
         | 
         | Another thing I expect to happen is: _actual AI art_. I don 't
         | think this has happened yet. There has not yet been an AI
         | equivalent of the Pictoralists.
         | 
         | AI art is art if the AI is used by a human being as a tool to
         | communicate what art communicates, to do what art does. Art, I
         | guess, does many things. It entertains, informs in a way, but
         | also communicates matters of the emotional and spiritual aspect
         | of human existence -- of _consciousness_ -- that can 't be
         | communicated well in other ways. If someone uses AI as a tool
         | to do that, it's art.
         | 
         | A lot of what we see today coming out of AI models is I think
         | correctly called "slop" because it is not that. There's no
         | artistic intention or craft behind it.
         | 
         | BTW I'd argue that "slop" exists in the realm of music,
         | literature, painting, and other arts made with traditional
         | methods too. For centuries there's been low-effort smutty pulp
         | fiction, crappy imitative pop music, and gimmicky low-effort
         | painting. Those things are slop made with lower-tech tools. A
         | pretentious gimmicky painting where someone threw some paint at
         | a wall has less artistic merit than a photograph that someone
         | composed with care to communicate something.
         | 
         | Edit: people said this about _writing_ too!
         | 
         | https://www.anthologialitt.com/post/the-god-thoth-and-the-in...
         | 
         | I'm not bashing people for being skeptical of AI and worrying
         | about its effects on the arts. There are, like I said, very
         | valid points, especially about the ability of artists to make a
         | living and the effect AI "slop" can have on the population. I
         | just think we have been here before, many times.
        
           | waffletower wrote:
           | Sad to see the downvotes on this well thought out post.
           | Kudos! The parallels between the history of the disruption
           | brought by photography, the musical sampler (another
           | disruptive technology in the late 1980s/early 1990s that is
           | now widely accepted with minimal angst) etc. with the current
           | outcries against Generative AI are hard for me to ignore.
           | Humans grab acoustic guitars, sing with their own voices and
           | often just add hackneyed dreck to our ears. Humans now can
           | type words into their computers and have found another way to
           | often unleash more dreck to our ears powered by Generative
           | AI. But I am deeply interested in Generative AI for its sonic
           | exploration possibilities -- maybe what I make will sound
           | like dreck to you, but I want to be free to do so, just like
           | someone who wants to grab a guitar and sing.
        
             | ronsor wrote:
             | Most of the criticism is from bandwagoning and emotion
             | rather than critical thought. People screech and gnash
             | their teeth as if the evil developers and AI researchers
             | are conspiring to destroy all art ever; it's quite frankly
             | ridiculous.
             | 
             | You narrowed down the important aspect: _personal freedom_.
             | It 's not about AI, or cameras, or samplers, or
             | synthesizers, or automated this or that, it's about giving
             | people the freedom to do an activity _how they want_. It 's
             | terribly sad that others cry for the removal of this
             | freedom and brand it as some noble cause.
        
             | api wrote:
             | To me the crisis of art today is not AI, it's discovery.
             | 
             | People all over the world are making great art. How do I
             | find it in an ocean of human-made mediocrity and now AI-
             | churned slop? How do we discover new artists?
             | 
             | I sometimes go looking for new writers and new music. It's
             | very time consuming. I'll spend hours and hours to find
             | maybe one new piece I like. Most of that time is sifting
             | through stuff that's just unremarkable.
             | 
             | Social media used to help, but now social media is just a
             | flood of dreck.
             | 
             | AI is making this problem worse, but not exactly for the
             | reason the AI bashers say. It's not that AI makes art
             | obsolete or that AI can't be used to make real art. It's
             | the AI makes it so easy to make dreck, it's flooding the
             | zone even more.
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-07 23:01 UTC)