[HN Gopher] TeleMessage, used by Trump officials, can access pla...
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       TeleMessage, used by Trump officials, can access plaintext chat
       logs
        
       Author : micahflee
       Score  : 135 points
       Date   : 2025-05-06 20:17 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (micahflee.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (micahflee.com)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _Technical analysis of the Signal clone used by Trump officials_
       | - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43875476 - May 2025 (313
       | comments)
        
         | ChrisArchitect wrote:
         | _Mike Waltz Accidentally Reveals App Govt Uses to Archive
         | Signal Messages_
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43865103
        
       | proactivesvcs wrote:
       | I'd find it useful if _I_ could access my Signal chat logs in
       | plaintext. The software offers no facility to do this on any
       | platform, and on Desktop the programs that have allowed me to
       | take proper backups are (by necessity) a moving target because of
       | changes to the database, so I am constantly having to get around
       | to updating them and occasionally even that 's a pain.
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | It'd also be useful if backups on Android actually streamed
         | somewhere off the phone so they could be meaningfully appended
         | to, kept. Or handled per channel (i.e. my baby pictures channel
         | with family).
        
           | proactivesvcs wrote:
           | ...and if the restore process wasn't so fragile. The only
           | time I needed to backup and restore it just crashed part-way
           | through, so the backup process wasn't even doing any
           | validation.
        
             | hedora wrote:
             | The lack of encrypted (and cross platform) backups is the
             | biggest security hole I know of in Signal.
             | 
             | People inevitably end up working around it, which can mean
             | using SMS, copying the threads / screenshots / attachments
             | to arbitrary other storage, or switching to things like
             | TeleMessage because of record keeping requirements.
             | 
             | I wish Signal were less hostile towards forks. I'd happily
             | switch to a client that uses their network, but that's
             | compatible with iCloud backup.
        
           | nicce wrote:
           | That would hit the Google One revenue if people would use
           | alternatives...
           | 
           | But also, it must have something to do with law enforcement.
           | On the other hand, Google may say that forensic investigation
           | of phone is harder (if no jailbreak), but on the otherhand it
           | is easier to hand over the data behind the scenes from the
           | remote cloud.
           | 
           | Backups are not E2EE by default (user can enable, so they
           | have an argument), so in most cases law enforcement can
           | access WhatsApp messages, SMS messages and anything else
           | without a problem. Many people don't think about this, and
           | defaults matter.
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | PhotoSync can incrementally backup iOS/Android photos to
           | self-hosted or cloud storage targets, with optional
           | encryption, https://www.photosync-app.com/support/encryption
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _I 'd find it useful if I could access my Signal chat logs in
         | plaintext_
         | 
         | I'd probably also find it useful if I could access your Signal
         | chat logs in plaintext. That's the problem.
        
       | theyknowitsxmas wrote:
       | Anyone can change the client name and build it to mislead baddies
       | when photographed in public.
        
         | woah wrote:
         | This is simply a 4d chess move by a team of geniuses
        
       | csours wrote:
       | Oh dear, this seems to be a bit of a footgun.
        
       | tptacek wrote:
       | Isn't that the point?
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | No, the point is for the government to have access the
         | plaintext after it is securely delivered to an approved archive
         | location, not TeleMessage having access on AWS-hosted servers
         | exposed to the public internet.
         | 
         | TeleMessage pitched their service as using end-to-end
         | encryption of the message into the corporate archive.
         | 
         | > End-to-End encryption from the mobile phone through to the
         | corporate archive
         | 
         | Apparently the plaintext messages were going to a TeleMessage
         | server on AWS (not an approved government archive location)
         | that was publicly accessible. Naturally it was hacked.
        
           | fnordpiglet wrote:
           | I doubt that's the point either. The government should have
           | cipher text they are able to decrypt in an approved archive
           | location with rigorously managed key material and a careful
           | cryptographically variable chain of custody from its
           | inception. Plain text should never factor into this.
        
             | matthewdgreen wrote:
             | The US government does have storage facilities and secure
             | messaging tools with escrow, all designed for exactly this
             | use-case (secure messaging amongst DoD personnel.) But the
             | whole point of Signal+TeleMessage was to route around that
             | "clunky stuff" by outsourcing it to a vendor.
        
           | iAMkenough wrote:
           | Why would they need to hire a foreign Israeli firm for that?
           | 
           | Through this procurement decision, the government has
           | displayed gross incompetence.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Presumably, in the spectrum of secure network protocols,
         | something exists between "delete the message before it can
         | leave this machine" and "send this message to a cloud provider
         | and have them email it in plain text to another cloud
         | provider".
        
           | pvg wrote:
           | If you're sending plaintext of out of an ostensible e2ee
           | system, it's not an e2ee system. You have an 'end' that's
           | not, you know, end-to-end.
        
           | deepsun wrote:
           | And Email protocol backbone itself was not designed to be
           | secure.
           | 
           | It's worse than internet packets over HTTPS -- the secure
           | connection is established between client and server, so man-
           | in-the-middle cannot decrypt it. In email, connections are
           | only secure between relays, so any relay can decrypt read
           | your email. You cannot guarantee what relays are used.
           | Similar to SMS.
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | It's supposed to be available in plaintext to the end customer
         | (government), at their secured archive, but not available in
         | plaintext to TeleMessage.
         | 
         | > _TeleMessage lies about this in their marketing material,
         | claiming that TM SGNL supports "End-to-End encryption from the
         | mobile phone through to the corporate archive."_
         | 
         | Surely someone of your expertise and renown recognizes this
         | difference.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Isn 't that the point?_
         | 
         | The point is making SecDef's communications, including scramble
         | orders, available to whoever can find a TeleMessage employee
         | who will cave to a bribe or blackmail?
        
       | fnordpiglet wrote:
       | These are the guys trying to jail Krebs for being honest. They
       | earned the "experts" they deserve.
        
         | actionfromafar wrote:
         | And still there is ample support for the administration, also
         | here. I am curious how much of it is through cognitive
         | dissonance and not thinking too hard about the stuff a
         | particular supporter don't like, and how of it is with eyes
         | open embracing the crazy and the incompetence for some "higher
         | goal" whatever that may.
         | 
         | (It also probably is very different, all from "own the libs"
         | through "escalate the second coming of Christ" or any
         | combination thereof.)
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | genius
        
       | aeontech wrote:
       | Why bother hacking your phone and installing a keylogger when we
       | can convince your IT department to buy it and install it for your
       | entire team. Have to say, this is pretty epic.
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-06 23:01 UTC)