[HN Gopher] The US has approved CRISPR pigs for food
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       The US has approved CRISPR pigs for food
        
       Author : DocFeind
       Score  : 56 points
       Date   : 2025-05-03 14:32 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.technologyreview.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.technologyreview.com)
        
       | andsoitis wrote:
       | I can already see CRISPR Bacon(tm) in our future.
        
         | janice1999 wrote:
         | I get it's a joke, but this won't be advertised to consumers.
         | The current US administration (and previous ones to a lesser
         | extent) oppose food labeling regulations. It's one of the main
         | "non-tariff trade barriers" they complain about to the EU.
        
           | barbazoo wrote:
           | What's the idea behind it? Just anti consumer or is there a
           | reasonable angle?
        
             | conception wrote:
             | Eats into profits and increases accountability.
        
             | justin66 wrote:
             | I believe they prefer the term "pro-business."
        
             | estebank wrote:
             | If someone doesn't care one way or another, the label is
             | useless. If someone has a positive opinion, the label helps
             | the consumer seek it out. If someone has a negative
             | opinion, the label helps the consumer avoid the product. If
             | they fight against labeling it is because they consider
             | that the third group is or can become bigger than the
             | second.
        
               | ryandrake wrote:
               | I mean, that's so vague that it can be said about
               | anything: Some people think X is positive and will buy
               | the product and some people think X is negative and won't
               | buy the product. Pretty obvious.
               | 
               | The purpose of food labels is to increase safety,
               | transparency and honesty around the contents of food.
               | Companies who oppose safety, transparency or honesty
               | and/or produce products with questionable contents will
               | oppose labels and companies who support safety,
               | transparency and honesty will support them. I don't know
               | many end-consumers who oppose labels themselves. But they
               | will oppose products that contain questionable
               | ingredients, so transparency is bad for companies that
               | produce those products.
        
               | tbrownaw wrote:
               | > _and companies who support safety, transparency and
               | honesty will support them._
               | 
               | Not quite.
               | 
               | Companies who can use the official labels to back up
               | their own advertising campaigns will support them. (I
               | know people who think that having a label for something
               | is evidence of that thing being good or bad. No, it's
               | evidence that someone thought that expending the effort
               | to convince the government to have that label would have
               | a positive return.)
               | 
               | Companies with more ability to amortize regulatory
               | overhead (relative to their competitors) will support
               | them, because for then that overhead is itself a
               | competitive advantage.
        
               | ThunderSizzle wrote:
               | > The purpose of food labels is to increase safety,
               | transparency and honesty around the contents of food.
               | 
               | USDA Organic label is rampant with fraud, and just having
               | thr USDA label on it isn't a guarantee of trust.
               | Similarly, the AHA endorsing oils blatantly bad for the
               | heart is also similar example how labeling doesn't
               | promote trust necessarily. Labels can and do lie, quite
               | often even.
        
             | tbrownaw wrote:
             | The generic arguments against that sort of thing are
             | distortion when the category boundaries are a bit off from
             | where they should be, and overhead where any time you do
             | anything there's extra compliance paperwork and delays.
             | 
             | Overhead in particular can be rather stifling. For example
             | environmental reviews for large projects have reached a
             | "the process is the punishment" level of overhead.
        
           | jfengel wrote:
           | The EU already refuses to import American chicken (over
           | sanitary practices) and has limitations on beef (over
           | hormones).
           | 
           | They'll ban American pork entirely if we can't guarantee that
           | the GMO pork are excluded.
        
         | johnohara wrote:
         | Are you declaring first use?
        
         | theGeatZhopa wrote:
         | The new job at McDonald's: CRISPRer - your one job is to take
         | the bacon and grill it crispy.
        
         | charliebwrites wrote:
         | I'd flip it:
         | 
         | If I ran a bacon company and I didn't have CRISPR pigs I'd
         | advertise in large red print
         | 
         | "CRISPR Free"
         | 
         | Or
         | 
         | "Non-genetically modified"
         | 
         | People are afraid of lab grown meat already, they'll be
         | terrified of CRISPR meat
         | 
         | My competition won't be able to advertise the same
        
           | nothercastle wrote:
           | If this becomes common it will be illegal to label food as
           | gmo free
        
           | Aloisius wrote:
           | Sure. And I'd advertise in large print, "PRRS Virus Free"
           | 
           | Considering the prevalence of PRRSV, it would be difficult
           | for farms with non-CRISPRed pigs to say the same.
           | 
           | Scare tactics can work both ways here.
        
       | ksec wrote:
       | >Regulations have eased since then, especially around gene
       | editing, which tinkers with an animal's own DNA rather than
       | adding to it from another species, as is the case with the salmon
       | and many GMO crops.
       | 
       | And people wonder why EU ( and UK ) doesn't allow much US
       | agriculture import.
        
         | maxerickson wrote:
         | What sort of regulation do you think should apply to germ line
         | editing to inactivate a particular gene?
         | 
         | Like is a blanket ban the only reasonable approach?
        
           | Natsu wrote:
           | This seems to be a small edit to a single receptor to keep
           | pigs from getting a particular disease by not allowing the
           | virus to enter their cells. It's hard to see how helping pigs
           | stay healthy could have a negative impact on human health,
           | but a lot of people are against eating things that are
           | 'unnatural' in any sense.
        
             | 486sx33 wrote:
             | Because CRISPR isn't nearly that precise or exact, it
             | always has unforeseen random fall off effects. Also, who
             | says that particular receptor ONLY prevents entry of a
             | specific virus? It surely has other purposes that aren't
             | understood.
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | Are the pigs healthy? I think the sibling comment got to
             | the heart of this a lot more directly.
             | 
             | There's an economic reward for keeping the pigs _healthy
             | enough_ to be harvested while spending the least amount of
             | money on their environment. If this lowers the threshold
             | for  "healthy enough", or allows them to survive in an even
             | worse, cheaper to maintain environment, that could
             | introduce or exacerbate human health risks even if this
             | change itself cannot.
             | 
             | There is also the animal welfare element, that has
             | resonance to a lot of people. I am by no means a
             | vegetarian, do not in principle object to killing animals
             | for food. But the sheer scale of animal suffering in our
             | food system gives me pause. I am reluctant to accept
             | innovations that would allow us to increase the degree of
             | suffering in exchange for an increase in output or decrease
             | in price.
        
               | barbazoo wrote:
               | Healthy animals and industrial meat production are at two
               | opposing ends of the same spectrum. You can have one but
               | not both.
        
               | mschuster91 wrote:
               | You absolutely can have both. The threshold to pass for
               | at least "decently healthy" isn't _that_ high and prices
               | aren 't that much higher than "normal" industrial
               | farming.
        
             | emorning3 wrote:
             | >> It's hard to see how helping pigs stay healthy could
             | have a negative impact on human health, <<
             | 
             | Really? You don't see a logical flaw in your reasoning
             | there?
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | None of those pigs are "healthy". If we didn't pump them
             | full of antibiotics they would never see the
             | slaughterhouse.
        
             | mrweasel wrote:
             | > It's hard to see how helping pigs stay healthy could have
             | a negative impact on human health
             | 
             | I think that view underscores the differences in approach
             | and beliefs in the US and Europe (not that both views
             | aren't represented on both sides of the Atlantic, just
             | distributed differently). The Europeans frequently have the
             | view: Prove to us that this is not dangerous. Otherwise we
             | prefer not taking the chance that you might be wrong. The
             | US version in our eyes is frequently: "You can't prove it's
             | not safe".
             | 
             | In this case you could risk introducing even worse
             | diseases, who have previous been kept in check by the
             | competition from the viruses you're now eliminating.
        
           | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
           | European consumers seem to not want factory farms that
           | produce such low quality food that it needs to be CRISPRed
           | (as is the case with this story) just to be kept alive long
           | enough.
           | 
           | I also am in that camp, I don't want to eat pork raised in
           | unsanitary conditions and then sold to me at top dollar
           | (because lying/obscuring about sourcing).
        
             | thayne wrote:
             | Then you should want regulations about how the pigs are
             | raised, not banning the use of CRISPR.
        
               | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
               | As an EATER of food what is the benefit of CRISPR/GMO?
               | 
               | There answer after a good 40 minutes of searching is...
               | nothing.
               | 
               | It's a technology 100% in service of being
               | lazier/sloppier for industrial scale food production and
               | in service of IP restricting the food supply in favor of
               | shareholder X or Y.
               | 
               | "but we can make tasteless US tomatoes on even more
               | inappropriate cropland!"
               | 
               | ...
               | 
               | Great for my stock portfolio to screw over developing
               | countries but useless for me as a first world eater of
               | food.
               | 
               | No proof of existence of a benefit.
        
               | Aloisius wrote:
               | Uh. Healthier animals.
               | 
               | This specific approval is for a gene therapy to prevent
               | PRRSV infection - a major porcine virus and one that
               | regularly infects pigs in the EU.
               | 
               | It has nothing to do with mistreatment of animals or
               | factory farming.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | poor husbandry is the primary objection to US food
               | products
               | 
               | the chicken has to be chlorinated because it has
               | literally been produced covered in faeces
               | 
               | this would seem to be enable it to become even worse
        
               | Aloisius wrote:
               | So don't import US food products if it scares you. That's
               | a separate issue from whether to allow CIRPRed livestock.
               | 
               | Again, this disease _regularly_ affects pigs in Europe
               | and causes immense animal suffering.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | > So don't import US food products if it scares you.
               | 
               | this is exactly the position of the EU, UK governments
               | 
               | and is one of the few policies that is universally
               | supported by their populations
        
               | Aloisius wrote:
               | The EU and UK both import food from the US.
               | 
               | Some US food products are banned for concerns about
               | safety, but they're hardly unique - the US also bans some
               | food products from the EU and UK that are considered
               | unsafe in the US.
               | 
               | None of that has to do with whether or not countries
               | should allow CRIPRed livestock to be raised domestically.
        
               | blibble wrote:
               | no GM crops, no milk with growth hormone (nearly all of
               | it), no beef with growth hormone (nearly all of it), no
               | chlorinated chicken (nearly all of it), no washed eggs
               | (nearly all of them)
               | 
               | and now pork will end up on that list too
               | 
               | > None of that has to do with whether or not countries
               | should allow CRIPRed livestock to be raised domestically.
               | 
               | I couldn't care less if US'ians want to eat shit (here,
               | literally)
        
           | paganel wrote:
           | > Like is a blanket ban the only reasonable approach?
           | 
           | From my pov as a fellow EU citizen a blanket ban for this
           | kind of creepy stuff is the only viable option. Let the
           | Americans become Frankesteins for all I care, it's their
           | choice, all in the name of "science".
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | In the name of keeping up unsustainable lifestyles because
             | one could not fathom to eat anything but abused animals.
             | It's part of the culture.
        
         | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
         | > And people wonder why EU ( and UK ) doesn't allow much US
         | agriculture import.
         | 
         | I mean, this is completely false. 8% of all EU agriculture
         | imports is from USA and has grown year over year for decades.
         | 
         | > U.S. agricultural exports to the European Union reached a
         | record $12.8 billion in 2024, a 1-percent increase from 2023
         | 
         | https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistic...
        
           | theGeatZhopa wrote:
           | While this 8% are limited to "sorts of" and may not include
           | "CRISPRed" or "chlorine-bleached".
           | 
           | Just a thought from me, as European, in case someone asks for
           | the thinking behind strict import EU rules:
           | 
           | We just don't want to eat things that we believe may cause
           | (abstract) harm, and, sorts of liability of the state and
           | society to care for you and (God beware) your kids if some
           | adverse effects are pinpointed to food/imports or
           | misregulation. I think it's ok like that.
        
             | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
             | Was just commenting on the blanket claim that EU "doesn't
             | allow" much ag import from the US, which is plainly wrong.
        
               | theGeatZhopa wrote:
               | It isn't plainly wrong as if they would allow much, then
               | the share would be higher, as it is the case now for
               | example Brazil (~9pc) or UK (>20pc).
               | 
               | If one think further, the share of export/import to/from
               | non-eu countries is (rounded) 9pc of total EU's
               | agriculture expenses. So, EU do not import much from US
               | and others because they do not want certain techniques
               | and methods and have their inner market and production
               | anyway. Like it's the case with chlorine chickens and
               | washed eggs. So, they don't allow such things to be sold
               | to customers, which is infact not allowing import.
               | 
               | https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-
               | explained/index.php...
        
         | lupusreal wrote:
         | Much of that is reasonable concern, but at least some of it is
         | silly superstition. For instance, Germany doesn't permit the
         | irradiation of most foods except dried herbs and spices.
         | Irradiation is a perfectly safe way of increasing the safety
         | and shelf life of food. Despite this, regulations on which
         | foods if any this is permitted for vary greatly from country to
         | country, influenced by how weirded out the uneducated public
         | feels about it.
        
           | 486sx33 wrote:
           | I wish more people understood how much of what they consume
           | is radiated at some point...
        
           | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
           | The alternative to radiation is mixing less poop into your
           | meat etc.?
           | 
           | You understand that the majority of "food science" is
           | designed to allow increasingly lazier and sloppier food
           | handling and allowing it to still be palatable/not kill too
           | many people right?
           | 
           | Don't fall into the "lower cost" idea either, being lazier
           | and sloppier means higher corporate profits and not lower
           | consumer prices (for worse food).
           | 
           | Compare the grass fed/ranged (produced on farms 1/10th the
           | size of the US equivalent) BigMac in Germany versus the one
           | you get anywhere in the US, which do you think is healthier
           | and tastier? They are basically the same price to the
           | consumer mysteriously...
        
             | lupusreal wrote:
             | This is the ignorance I was talking about. There are many
             | reasons to irradiate food besides substandard handling. For
             | instance, potatoes can be irradiated to inhibit sprouting,
             | increasing how long you can store them. And imported fruits
             | can be irradiated to prevent the spread of insects and
             | other pests (without needing to use far riskier
             | pesticides.)
        
               | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
               | You proved my point actually.
               | 
               | Neither of those things is actually useful as an eater of
               | food?
               | 
               | You want less fresh food and from sketchier sources yet
               | you think those are virtues?
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | They are useful to people who buy food (who hasn't had
               | some potatoes sprout in a cabinet?), and to society
               | generally. Insects are a fact of fruit, to call that
               | "sketchy" is just ignorant.
        
               | WhatIsDukkha wrote:
               | Sprouted potatoes is a sing its time to get some new
               | ones... you want to eat horded 6 month old potatoes glhf
               | 
               | I don't eat fumigated strawberries so replacing fumigated
               | strawberries with irradiated strawberries is... not
               | useful?
        
           | tbrownaw wrote:
           | > _influenced by how weirded out the uneducated public feels
           | about it._
           | 
           | So it's one of those "my ignorance is just as good as your
           | knowledge" things?
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | To the extent they don't import, it's much more about
         | protecting their own farm economy. Denmark for example has a
         | lot of large pig farms, they don't want US pork competing with
         | that.
        
       | comrade1234 wrote:
       | This is just so that they can pack even more pigs into a factory
       | farm.
        
       | 486sx33 wrote:
       | Oh man, this is bad. How many studies do we have some the
       | consumption of CRISPR anything by humans ?
        
       | DesaiAshu wrote:
       | We could also just stop breeding genetically modified sentient
       | animals for protein and directly synthesize protein...
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | Or just eat vegetables.
        
           | shutupnerd0000 wrote:
           | Vegetables are alive too and scream when cut. We must starve.
        
             | barbazoo wrote:
             | Source?
        
               | ThunderSizzle wrote:
               | That vegetables are alive? Seems obvious plants are
               | living.
        
               | barbazoo wrote:
               | Straw man response
               | 
               | > Vegetables are alive too and scream when cut.
        
       | AzzyHN wrote:
       | This has the potential to be really cool, and really beneficial
       | to society.
       | 
       | It's a shame the people who want to do this the most are the
       | people who want to treat the pigs the worst, and who care the
       | least about potential side effects in humans.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _shame the people who want to do this the most are the people
         | who want to treat the pigs the worst_
         | 
         | When there is almost-perfect (and unnecessary) union between
         | animal rights interests and the anti-GMO community, this is
         | almost a necessity.
         | 
         | > _and who care the least about potential side effects in
         | humans_
         | 
         | I see no evidence of this.
        
       | SoftTalker wrote:
       | > the pigs appear entirely immune to more than 99% of the known
       | versions of the PRRS virus, although there is one rare subtype
       | that may break through the protection.
       | 
       | Doesn't this just set the table for that rare subtype to become
       | dominant?
        
         | nothercastle wrote:
         | Yes
        
       | stavros wrote:
       | Could we not just... not confine the pigs in spaces about as big
       | as their bodies?
       | 
       | Kurzgesagt had a very interesting video[0] about the fact that it
       | wasn't really that much more expensive to make sure we ate
       | torture-free meat.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sVfTPaxRwk
        
       | unfitted2545 wrote:
       | good day to be a vegan.
        
       | nerdjon wrote:
       | I really really hate that the science behind GMO's gets clouded
       | by the business practices of some of these companies.
       | 
       | You can separate the 2. Being anti gmo is being anti science.
       | Decrying all GMO as bad, unhealthy, or whatever is as illogical
       | as trying to make any blanket statement about any food. It just
       | so happens that this one gets headlines.
       | 
       | We should be concerned about the businesses like Monsanto. But
       | that is completely different.
       | 
       | Personally I have been trying to avoid any product that goes out
       | of its way to claim "non gmo" because it just signals to me that
       | they don't care about sustainability and science.
       | 
       | It's almost as bad (and sometimes worse) than the "organic" crap.
        
         | hollerith wrote:
         | So in other words there is nothing wrong with the GMO as an
         | abstract principle, it is merely the actual GMOs on the market
         | today that are bad in almost every instance.
        
           | nerdjon wrote:
           | No... that is not what I said at all.
           | 
           | I have yet to see a single instance of any actual health
           | concerns raised from eating GMO food.
           | 
           | It has turned into marketing bullshit.
           | 
           | Again there has to be a clear separation between the science
           | behind GMO and the business practices. They are very
           | different discussions that need to happen but instead we are
           | painting all of it with a negative light.
        
             | hollerith wrote:
             | >I have yet to see a single instance
             | 
             | OK, here is a single instance: lots of people are concerned
             | about glyphosate residues in food, and GMO technology is
             | the only thing that allows those food plants to even
             | survive the amount of glyphosate being sprayed on them.
        
               | nerdjon wrote:
               | That is not a problem with the act of making GMO's in the
               | first place, which again is the point that I am trying to
               | make here.
               | 
               | If the product that had these modifications is perfectly
               | safe without being sprayed with it, the science behind
               | the creation of that GMO is still sound. The problem is
               | what is being done to it after the fact.
               | 
               | Meaning, it being GMO itself is irrelevant and goes back
               | to the business practices. Grouping that into an "Anti
               | GMO" crusade just continues to further an anti-science
               | narrative.
        
             | Nullabillity wrote:
             | > Again there has to be a clear separation between the
             | science behind GMO and the business practices.
             | 
             | Discussing the science is worthless until you can solve the
             | business practices.
        
               | nerdjon wrote:
               | Then why require GMO labeling on food?
               | 
               | We don't require labeling for basically any other
               | concerns about business practices and yet everyone seems
               | to care about this one. When I buy chicken it doesn't
               | have a sticker on it sayin "this chicken was probably
               | kicked a few times". or slave labor was used on this
               | chocolate. There are other voluntarily done labeling
               | against both of those, but not a requirement to say it.
               | 
               | The problem is, the narrative is grouping them together.
               | The general narrate is "concern over what it going into
               | our bodies" which has nothing to do with business
               | practices.
        
               | Nullabillity wrote:
               | > We don't require labeling for basically any other
               | concerns about business practices
               | 
               | Maybe we should. Then again, pretty sure both of those
               | are completely illegal anyway. (Not that that stops it
               | entirely, but somehow I'm not convinced _lying about it_
               | would be the thing to stop those actors.)
        
               | nerdjon wrote:
               | Right I mean the chocolate one is illegal. The chicken
               | one, honestly not fully sure since Purdue keeps getting
               | exposed but idk if they actually have had legal issues?
               | But my point with both of those is, as bad as those would
               | be they don't have an impact on your health eating the
               | product.
               | 
               | Regardless, I don't disagree that we should have some
               | labeling on business practices behind the food that we
               | eat as long as it is actually communicating what needs to
               | be communicated instead of just fear mongering.
               | 
               | "GMO Free" (or requiring it to say it has GMO) tells the
               | consumer absolutely nothing. Its meaningless. All it does
               | is try to sow fear about a thing that its existence
               | itself is not the problem.
               | 
               | "Forbids farmers from using last years seeds", "Uses
               | increased herbicide" like the example the other person
               | mentioned, or whatever that actually communicates what
               | the business concern is to the consumer would be great.
               | 
               | But that is not what we are doing here with labeling GMO.
        
       | lazystar wrote:
       | does this mean they can create a kosher pig? huge business
       | opportunity there.
        
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