[HN Gopher] A proof of concept tool to verify estimates
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       A proof of concept tool to verify estimates
        
       Author : jjgreen
       Score  : 77 points
       Date   : 2025-05-02 19:09 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (terrytao.wordpress.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (terrytao.wordpress.com)
        
       | esafak wrote:
       | Nice to LLMs being put to such use! I see the heavy lifting here
       | is due to linear programming:
       | 
       | https://github.com/teorth/estimates/blob/main/src/estimates....
        
       | eh_why_not wrote:
       | The ChatGPT session he links [0] shows how powerful the LLM is in
       | aiding and teaching programming. A patient, resourceful,
       | effective, and apparently deeply knowledgeable tutor! At least
       | for beginners.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://chatgpt.com/share/68143a97-9424-800e-b43a-ea9690485b...
        
         | nh23423fefe wrote:
         | I'm constantly shocked by the number of my coworkers who won't
         | even try to use an LLM to get stuff done faster. It's like they
         | want it to be bad so they don't have to improve.
        
           | Ygg2 wrote:
           | And I'm constantly shocked by number of people still shilling
           | for it, despite it hallucinating constantly.
           | 
           | Plus having used it in JetBrains IDE it makes me sad to see
           | them ditching their refactoring for LLM refuctoring.
        
             | regularjack wrote:
             | The normal refactorings are still there AFAICT.
        
               | Ygg2 wrote:
               | That implies that they were there in the first place. For
               | some IDEs the refactoring are essentially rename, and buy
               | JetBrains AI plugin.
        
               | lazyasciiart wrote:
               | Then don't complain about them going away?
        
               | Ygg2 wrote:
               | I didn't complain about them going away. I complained
               | about using LLMs upsell rather than implementing
               | refactoring like they used to for their previous IDEs
               | (e.g. IntelliJ).
        
           | bcrosby95 wrote:
           | Maybe they have tried and found it lacking?
           | 
           | I have an on again off again relationship with LLMs. I always
           | walk away disappointed. Most recently for a hobby project
           | around 1k lines so far, and it outputs bugs galore, makes
           | poor design decisions, etc.
           | 
           | It's ok for one off scripts, but even those it rarely one
           | shots.
           | 
           | I can only assume people who find it useful are working on
           | different things than I am.
        
             | kevmo314 wrote:
             | Yeah I'm in the holding it wrong camp too. I really want
             | LLMs to work, but every time I spend effort trying to get
             | it to do something I end up with subtle errors or a
             | conclusion that isn't actually correct despite looking
             | correct.
             | 
             | Most people tell me I'm just not that good at prompting,
             | which is probably true. But if I'm learning how to prompt,
             | that's basically coding with more steps. At that point it's
             | faster for me to write the code directly.
             | 
             | The one area where it actually has been successful is
             | (unsurprisingly) translating code from one language to
             | another. That's been a great help.
        
               | kaoD wrote:
               | I have never been _told_ I 'm bad at prompting, but
               | people swear LLMs are so useful to them I ended up
               | _thinking_ I must be bad at prompting.
               | 
               | Then I decided to take on offers to help me with a couple
               | problems I had and, surprise, LLMs were indeed useless
               | even when being piloted by people that swear by them, _in
               | the pilot 's area of expertise!_
               | 
               | I just suspect we're indeed not bad at prompting but
               | instead have different kinds of problems that LLMs are
               | just not (yet?) good at.
               | 
               | I tend to reach for LLMs when I'm (1) lazy or (2) stuck.
               | They never help with (2) so it must mean I'm still as
               | smart as them (yay!) They beat me at (1) though. Being
               | indefatigable works in their favor.
        
             | Scarblac wrote:
             | I do the designing, then I write a comment explaining what
             | happens, and the LLM then adds a few lines of code. Write
             | another comment, etc.
             | 
             | I get very similar code to what I would normally write but
             | much faster and with comments.
        
             | dimal wrote:
             | Don't get them to make design decisions. They can't do it.
             | 
             | Often, I use LLMs to write the V1 of whatever module I'm
             | working on. I try to get it to do the simplest thing that
             | works and that's it. Then I refactor it to be _good_. This
             | is how I worked before LLMs already: do the simplest thing
             | that works, even if it's sloppy and dumb, then refactor.
             | The LLM just lets me skip that first step (sometimes). Over
             | time, I'm building up a file of coding standards for them
             | to follow, so their V1 doesn't require as much refactoring,
             | but they never get it "right".
             | 
             | Sometimes they'll go off into lalaland with stuff that's so
             | over complicated that I ignore it. The key was noticing
             | when it was going down some dumb rabbit hole and bailing
             | out quick. They never turn back. They'll always come up
             | with another dumb solution to fix the problem they never
             | should have created in the first place.
        
             | TheNewsIsHere wrote:
             | My experience tracks your experience. It seems as if there
             | are a few different camps when it comes to LLMs, and that's
             | partly based on one's job functions and/or context that
             | available LLMs simply don't handle.
             | 
             | I cannot, for example, rely on any available LLM to do most
             | of my job, because most of my job is dependent on both
             | technical and business specifics. The inputs to those
             | contexts are things LLMs wouldn't have consumed anywhere
             | else. For example specific facts about a client's
             | technology environment. Or specific facts about my business
             | and its needs. An LLM can't tell me what I should charge
             | for my company's services.
             | 
             | It might be able to help someone figure out how to do that
             | when starting out based on what it's consumed from Internet
             | sources. That doesn't really help me though. I already know
             | how to do the math. A spreadsheet or an analytical
             | accounting package with my actual numbers is going to be
             | faster and a better use of my time and money.
             | 
             | There are other areas where LLMs just aren't "there yet" in
             | general terms because of industry or technology specifics
             | that they're not trained on, or that require some actual
             | cognition and nuance an LLM trained on random Internet
             | sources aren't going to have.
             | 
             | Heck, some vendors lock their product documentation behind
             | logins you can only get if you're a customer. If you're
             | trying to accomplish something with those kinds of products
             | or services then generally available LLMs aren't going to
             | provide any kind of defensible guidance.
             | 
             | The widely available LLMs are better suited to things that
             | can easily be checked in the public square, or to help an
             | expert summarize huge amounts of information, and who can
             | spot confabulations/hallucinations. Or if they're trained
             | on specific, well-vetted data sets for a particular use
             | case.
             | 
             | People seem to forget or not understand that LLMs really do
             | not think at all. They have no cognition and don't handle
             | nuance.
        
           | chneu wrote:
           | Some people just don't want to use AI and there are very
           | legitimate reasons for that.
           | 
           | Why are you so willing to teach a program how to do your job?
           | Why are you so willing to give your information to a LLM that
           | doesn't care about your privacy?
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | I agree there can be very legitimate reasons for personally
             | not wanting to use AI. At the same time, I'm not sure I
             | find either of those questions to be related to
             | particularly convincing reasons.
             | 
             | Teaching a program how to do your job has been part of the
             | hacker mindset for many decades now, I don't think there is
             | anything new to be said as to why. Anyone here reading this
             | on the internet has long since decided they are fine
             | preferring technical automations over preserving
             | traditional ways of completing work.
             | 
             | LLMs don't inherently imply anything about privacy
             | handling, the service you select does (if you aren't just
             | opting to self host in the first place). On the hosted
             | service side there's anything from "free and sucks up
             | everything" to "business data governance contracts about
             | what data can be used how".
        
               | daveguy wrote:
               | > Anyone here reading this on the internet has long since
               | decided they are fine preferring technical automations
               | over preserving traditional ways of completing work.
               | 
               | Well, that's a huge unsubstantiated leap. Also, it's not
               | about "preserving traditional ways of completing work."
               | It's just about recognizing that humans are much better
               | at the vast majority of real world work.
        
           | apercu wrote:
           | I use LLMs often - a few times a week. Every time I gain
           | confidence in a model I get burned. Sometimes verifying takes
           | longer than doing the task myself, so "AI" gets a narrower
           | and narrower scope in my workflow as time goes by.
        
           | mhh__ wrote:
           | A lot of people just don't have the dexterity. Doesn't mean
           | they're stupid necessarily (although the two do rhyme)
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | This comment is really sad:
       | 
       | https://terrytao.wordpress.com/2025/05/01/a-proof-of-concept...
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-05-03 23:02 UTC)