[HN Gopher] Depictions of the Milky Way found in ancient Egyptia...
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       Depictions of the Milky Way found in ancient Egyptian imagery
        
       Author : wglb
       Score  : 87 points
       Date   : 2025-05-01 13:30 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (phys.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (phys.org)
        
       | wglb wrote:
       | Published in the Journal of Astronomical History and Heritage
       | https://www.sciengine.com/JAHH/doi/10.3724/SP.J.140-2807.202...
        
       | bdbenton5255 wrote:
       | Not surprising if you've ever had a good look at the Milky Way
       | from the wilderness or countryside. Growing up in well-lit
       | suburbs, I didn't see the Milky Way until I went backpacking in
       | the granite domes of the Sierra Nevadas.
       | 
       | This is an experience that I'd recommend everyone to experience
       | at least once if you haven't. The memory is still burned in my
       | lind, a canvas full of stars and the hazy stream of the galaxy
       | stretching from horizon to horizon.
       | 
       | Here is a nifty tool for finding areas with low light pollution
       | near you, which coincidentally are typically home to
       | observatories.
       | 
       | https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/
        
         | ziddoap wrote:
         | What an awesome resource, thanks for sharing that link.
        
         | lelandfe wrote:
         | Related reading https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Bortle_scale
        
       | AngryData wrote:
       | This shouldn't be surprising to anybody who has spent time
       | outside away from light pollution. Living in a rural area it is
       | clearly and obviously visible every night when there isn't
       | clouds.
        
         | pests wrote:
         | There is a story of come city in the US (San Fran?) losing
         | power and emergency services were overloaded with calls of
         | people freaking out over the milky way.
        
           | derwiki wrote:
           | The story is Los Angeles, but not sure the veracity
           | 
           | Fun fact: in SF, the fog can act as a light pollution
           | blanket: from the top of Mt Tam, I've looked southeast and
           | seen the Milky Way on a moonless night
        
             | nullc wrote:
             | Much of Marin is relatively non-light polluted compared to
             | similarly populated areas thanks to the outdoor advertising
             | prohibition, though LED street lights have made things
             | worse. (I'm not disputing the fog blanket point, but it's
             | presumably helped by reduced light pollution).
        
               | ljlolel wrote:
               | I feel lucky that I often see a lot of stars and
               | constellations, even during twilight, in the middle of
               | downtown San Francisco
        
               | nullc wrote:
               | And not just a product of some contact high? :P Wild.
               | 
               | SF is not a long trip from some pretty dark skies:
               | https://www.darkskymap.com/nightSkyBrightness
               | 
               | If you haven't ventured out to try to see the milkyway
               | (be sure to check stellarium or similar) you should give
               | it a try sometime.
               | 
               | Most of the populated US is a lot further from truly dark
               | skies than we are in the bay area.
               | 
               | It does make a big difference to go somewhere _really_
               | dark, but that 's a bit more of a haul. Once on a trip
               | through rural Oregon I could see the milkyway through my
               | windshield, pulled over to turn the lights off and view
               | and was amazed that it cast a visible shadow once our
               | eyes were adapted.
        
         | nelblu wrote:
         | Agreed, this shouldn't be surprising at all, on the contrary it
         | is sad that today's urban generation will never appreciate what
         | it is to look up and only see stars. When I was a kid we used
         | to sleep on the terrace during summer season. My uncle and I
         | would stare at the stars, constellations, meteors etc. and he
         | would tell me their names in both English and in my native
         | language. It was quite fascinating how the mythologies of the
         | constellations were different in different languages. Ex: The
         | great bear (ursa major) was known as the seven sages (when
         | translated in English). The pole star was a mythological diety,
         | Orion the hunter was actually a deer. Sometimes we stayed awake
         | well into the early dawn. Those were some of my best childhood
         | memories.
        
           | typeofhuman wrote:
           | One of the things that shocked me the most when visiting New
           | York City is that on a daily places I would only see a tiny,
           | narrow sliver of the sky. It's mostly covered up by
           | buildings. Then I wondered what affect this has on the people
           | who live there. It was awful for me.
        
         | thebruce87m wrote:
         | > every night when there isn't clouds.
         | 
         | Rural Scotland here. There's always clouds. Well, 99% of the
         | time anyway.
         | 
         | So frustrating when there is northern lights and it's overcast.
        
       | ziofill wrote:
       | I saw the best Milky Way of my life while driving from Las Vegas
       | to Phoenix on a summer night. My friend's car had a sunroof, but
       | I had my eyes on the road so I hadn't noticed. At some point the
       | guy sitting at the back points up and goes "is that the Milky
       | Way??" And my friend who was on the passenger seat goes "you know
       | the sunroof is tinted right?" It was SO BRIGHT! We stopped the
       | car, went out and stayed there a good half hour just staring up,
       | one of the best memories of my first trip to the US.
        
         | j-krieger wrote:
         | Stars are actually really really bright. We just forget since
         | we block our view with smog and lights.
        
           | typeofhuman wrote:
           | I can only imagine what the night sky looked like before
           | electricity.
           | 
           | Maybe I'll have to go to Antarctica.
        
             | grakasja wrote:
             | There are a few websites that suggest or map areas where
             | you can get a good view e.g.
             | https://www.darkskymap.com/nightSkyBrightness
             | 
             | Lots of good spots in the Western US if you're up for a
             | long drive
        
             | markus_zhang wrote:
             | You can use the black map to find spots. Most likely there
             | is one close to our city, "close" defined as within 2-3
             | hours of driving.
        
         | testing22321 wrote:
         | Go to outback Australia, or remote South America or Southern
         | Africa. Due to the tilt of the earth the southern hemisphere
         | gets better stars.
         | 
         | It will blow your mind.
         | 
         | I'd been out of Australia for a decade, living in the Yukon,
         | having all kinds of remote adventures. On my first night back
         | in Australia in the middle of a city of 50k people I took
         | photos because the Milky Way was staggering. 10x what I had
         | seen in the decade prior. This is a single exposure, very much
         | what it looked like in real life
         | 
         | https://www.instagram.com/p/CersLuLBfCz/
        
       | smolder wrote:
       | This is easily understood in the context of ancient nights with
       | no light pollution, and fewer distractions. Regrettably, I think
       | some people will frame it in a way to try to support theories of
       | ancient lost technology, alien influence, or similar
       | scientifically and epistemologically unsound narratives.
        
         | HarHarVeryFunny wrote:
         | Right - they saw something glaringly obvious in the night sky,
         | and depicted it. There's no indication that they understood
         | what they were looking at.
        
       | WalterGR wrote:
       | The article is actually about the link between Nut and the Milky
       | Way - and not that anyone is surprised that ancient Egyptians
       | could see the Milky Way.
        
       | cubefox wrote:
       | > However, on the outer coffin of Nesitaudjatakhet, a chantress
       | of Amun-Re who lived some 3,000 years ago, Nut's appearance
       | deviates from the norm. Here, a distinctive, undulating black
       | curve crosses her body from the soles of her feet to the tips of
       | her fingers, with stars painted in roughly equal numbers above
       | and below the curve.
       | 
       | > Dr. Graur said, "I think that the undulating curve represents
       | the Milky Way and could be a representation of the Great Rift--
       | the dark band of dust that cuts through the Milky Way's bright
       | band of diffused light. Comparing this depiction with a
       | photograph of the Milky Way shows the stark similarity."
       | 
       | The stars around the arch are strange. As far as I know, the
       | discovery that the Milky Way consists of stars was made only much
       | later, after the invention of the telescope.
        
         | svachalek wrote:
         | If you think of stars as "points of light in the sky" as
         | depicted here, there's really nothing strange about it.
        
           | cubefox wrote:
           | The strange thing is that since you can't see the points in
           | the Milky Way without a telescope, it's unclear why the
           | Egyptians drew stars on the edge of their depiction of the
           | Milky Way. It seems they would have assumed it's a long cloud
           | or something like that. (Indeed, an old name for "galaxies"
           | outside the Milky Way was "nebulae" until a few hundred years
           | ago.)
        
             | thaumasiotes wrote:
             | > It seems they would have assumed it's a long cloud or
             | something like that.
             | 
             | I don't see why. The Chinese called it a river. The Greeks
             | called it a circle. The Romans called it a road.
             | 
             | The English appear to have called it a girdle:
             | https://www.etymonline.com/word/Milky%20Way
             | 
             | > in Middle English also _Milken-Way_ , _Milk-white girdle_
             | , and _Milky Cercle_.
             | 
             | ["Milken-Way" is a direct translation of the Latin name,
             | and "Milky Cercle" is a direct translation of the Greek
             | name. Girdle is less easy to explain.]
             | 
             | > The ancients speculated on what it was; some guessed it
             | was a vast assemblage of stars (Democrates, Pythagoras,
             | even Ovid)
             | 
             | I don't think there are any texts attributed to Pythagoras,
             | but we might have a text that says he thought so, or that
             | the Pythagoreans thought so.
        
             | olddustytrail wrote:
             | You can see stars in the Milky Way.
             | 
             | Pedantically, all the stars you can see are in the Milky
             | Way, but in the sense you mean, the furthest stars are the
             | ones that form the fuzzy cloud but there are closer ones in
             | the same plane that you can see, so it looks like a long
             | cloud dotted with stars.
             | 
             | So you don't need to know the fuzzy bit is also stars to
             | depict stars in it.
        
       | neuronic wrote:
       | Seeing the Milky Way and thousands of stars in all colors and
       | brightnesses, sparking and not, is my favorite non-social memory
       | of all time.
       | 
       | Nothing like lying on that bench on the Peloponnese in Greece in
       | the summer. You could watch it for 2h and not get bored. Shooting
       | stars, satellites... it was colorful and humbling.
        
       | FjordWarden wrote:
       | I thought that the Milky Way was to the ancient Egyptians a
       | representation of the Nile and that the great pyramids are the
       | band of stars in Orion. Maybe that is a cooky theory but not that
       | unlikely that a perplexed person from 4000 years ago things the
       | same as a confused person today.
        
       | nurettin wrote:
       | Egyptian: Draws stars along a line Conspiracist: Rubbing hands
       | together
        
         | markus_zhang wrote:
         | Ancient aliens!
        
       | infradig wrote:
       | The milky way and zodiac from the Bible 2000 years ago...
       | Revelations 22: Then the angel showed me the river of the water
       | of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of
       | the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on
       | either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds
       | of fruit, yielding its fruit each month.
        
         | danhau wrote:
         | I don't think that text literally refers to the night sky. Most
         | of Relevations describes things ,,to come" and are communicated
         | in signs / metaphors. See 1:1.
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | It's odd to look for hidden references to the Milky Way and
           | the zodiac in the Bible, considering they were both well
           | known before the Old Testament. If a biblical author wanted
           | to talk about the Milky Way, or the zodiac, he could.
        
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       (page generated 2025-05-03 23:01 UTC)