[HN Gopher] Suno v4.5
___________________________________________________________________
Suno v4.5
Author : platers
Score : 181 points
Date : 2025-05-02 13:18 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (suno.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (suno.com)
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Feel they didn't really test these genres
|
| "Cajun synthpop chant" has no chanting or synths, it sounds more
| like country music with french woman vocals
| mclau157 wrote:
| Agreed, Suno still very often does not follow instructions
| svantana wrote:
| Yes, suno has definitely focused more on lyric and melody than
| prompt following. If the prompt is more than 3-4 words then it
| deteriorates pretty quickly. I think one reason is that there's
| not a lot of high quality descriptions of music around - you
| can guess the genre of the artist, and you can scrape reviews
| and the like, but that will be pretty noisy.
| natdempk wrote:
| You can do a lot more detailed prompts with v4.5 than
| previously and instructions in [brackets] also go a long way
| now.
| Mockapapella wrote:
| Could you elaborate on the instructions in brackets part?
| dumpsterdiver wrote:
| Brackets such as [Verse] help provide waveform separation
| in the edit view so that you can easily edit that section
| without manually dragging the slider.
|
| Others such as [Interrupt] will provide a DJ-like fade-
| out / announcement (that was <Artist name>, next up..." /
| fade-in - providing an opportunity to break the AI out of
| repetitive loops it obsesses about.
|
| I've used [Bridge] successfully, and [Instrumental] [No
| vocals] work reliably as well (there are also
| instrumental options, but I still use brackets out of
| habit I guess).
| lucasoshiro wrote:
| When I try to mix genres that are too different, it chooses
| only one of them and ignore the others... let's see if it's
| better in the new version
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Makes it weird they chose to demo it like this imho when it's
| not good at that. This design makes it look like its
| specifically that being shown off.
| TonyTrapp wrote:
| None of the Acid House samples have anything to do with Acid
| House either. The Jungle samples sound more like Liquid Drum &
| Bass.
| timeon wrote:
| > The Jungle samples sound more like Liquid Drum & Bass.
|
| So another slop?
| ofrzeta wrote:
| I tested around five genres although they were more mainstream
| than what you picked and they were quite good, for instance
| French Ska. If someone told me it was an actual French Ska band
| I wouldn't have doubted it. Or Klezmer music, but maybe the
| Jiddish wasn't totally correct.
| smusamashah wrote:
| I tried Urdu. The music quality seems good but the pronunciation
| is wrong (e.g. slight aa sound instead of ee sound) for many
| simple common words and helper words.
|
| But I don't understand why its wrong. If its trained on lots of
| Urdu/Hindi music, no one pronounces those words like that. How
| does it get the a/e wrong while still singing almost correctly?
| It's weird.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| The vowels sound subtly wrong for English on the alternative
| rock station, but that might just be Eddie Vedder being in the
| training set...
| brookst wrote:
| Eddies in the training set
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| That's a sick UI gimmick.
|
| And it's even cleverly mobile friendly.
| visarga wrote:
| I can't get Suno to obey the style tags, it's as if they are not
| used at all in generating the output, or massively changed. Maybe
| they do the same trick Gemini used to generate the black queen of
| England. Or it's a trick to waste our credits faster, the only
| way to get something decent is to spin the dice many times.
| logicchains wrote:
| It seems to lean heavily on the lyrics when choosing the style;
| if you pick a style that doesn't match well with the lyrics,
| it'll kinda ignore it.
| XenophileJKO wrote:
| I'm still experimenting with what works and doesn't work.
| Currently for style I am trying things like:
|
| -----
|
| STYLE: Earth Circuit Fusion
|
| INSTRUMENTATION: - Deep analog synth bass with subtle
| distortion - Hybrid percussion combining djembe and
| electronic glitches - Polytonal synth arpeggios with
| unpredictable patterns - Processed field recordings for
| atmospheric texture - Circuit-bent toys creating unexpected
| melodic accents
|
| VOCAL APPROACH: - Female vocalist with rich mid-range and
| clear upper register - Intimate yet confident delivery with
| controlled vibrato - Layered whisper-singing technique in
| verses - Full-voiced chorus delivery with slight emotional
| rasp - Spoken-word elements layered under bridge melodies -
| Stacked fifth harmonies creating ethereal chorus quality
|
| PRODUCTION: - Grainy tape saturation on organic elements -
| Juxtaposition of lo-fi and hi-fi within same sections -
| Strategic arrangement dropouts for dramatic impact - Glitch
| transition effects between sections
|
| ---
|
| One thing I have noticed with the new model is that it
| listens to direction in the lyrics more now, for example
| [whispered] or [bass drop], etc.
|
| There are clear limits. I have been unsuccessful in spacial
| arrangement.
|
| EDIT: I realized I didn't specify, this is when you do custom
| and you specify the lyrics and the style separately.
| natdempk wrote:
| v4.5 is a lot better at adherence with detailed descriptions!
|
| Still not totally adherent, but if you can steer it with genre,
| detailed descriptions of genre, and elements of the genre it's
| way better than v4. Some descriptions work better than others
| so there's some experimentation to figure out what works for
| what you're trying to achieve.
|
| You can also provide descriptions in [brackets] in the lyrics
| that work reasonably well in my experience.
|
| Disclaimer: I work there as a SWE.
| v64 wrote:
| Have been using Suno over the last few iterations and can
| vouch for this; steering the final product with style tags is
| a lot better now and I can use more natural language rather
| than trying to come up with what the genre specific
| "wordings" for certain styles of music would be. Good to know
| the tip about the brackets in lyrics too.
|
| Some examples of style descriptions I've used that generated
| results close to what I had in mind are "romantic comedy
| intro music, fast and exciting, new york city" (aiming for
| something like the Sex and the City theme) and "mature adult
| romance reality tv show theme song, breakbeats, seductive,
| intimate, saxophones, lots of saxophones" which did indeed
| produce cheesy porn music.
| brookst wrote:
| Please make noise internally that the product desperately
| needs a tutorial and a prompting guide! It's amazing if you
| hang out on Discord and spend a lot of time learning, but
| people just sitting down with it have no idea how to use it.
| cdrini wrote:
| That is a very cool UI; super fun to just hit random and find new
| niche genres/styles. I'd never heard of klezmer, for example, but
| such a nice style! I don't know if it's the music, but it's been
| a while since a website has put this big a grin on my face!
|
| I keep wanting to save some of the songs I hear. Damn, I don't
| think I would really be able to tell in a blind test that these
| were AI.
| lucasoshiro wrote:
| > That is a very cool UI;
|
| I really don't like that UI. It's hard to read, and when I
| found something it slips. Too much form over function
|
| > I keep wanting to save some of the songs I hear.
|
| Just click the title of the song. If you have an account you
| can add to favorites, download, etc.
| cdrini wrote:
| Ah the title isn't visible on mobile for me!
| lucasoshiro wrote:
| Well, I never used Suno on mobile, perhaps it's that! Here
| on desktop it's ok
| ignoramous wrote:
| On my 16gigs octa-core Ubuntu box, the UI stutters.
| NexRebular wrote:
| They should make it easier to download the songs. There's so
| much music that could be used commercially instead of expensive
| licensing. Someone could even set up a venture to record era-
| appropriate AI music to a cassette or vinyl and start selling
| them.
|
| Oh, the joys of infinite public domain music!
| noumenon1111 wrote:
| If you like klezmer, chances are you'll like Balkan and/or
| Romani music too
| DataDaemon wrote:
| "I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and
| writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my
| laundry and dishes."
| hiccuphippo wrote:
| If you enjoy doing art and writing then great, AI will never
| take that from you. If it's your job, then it can take some of
| the load from you so you can go do things you enjoy.
| progbits wrote:
| Aren't they still in active lawsuit with Sony etc about training
| on music without license? Yet still releasing new products?
|
| I guess they are hoping for the Uber outcome where they earn
| enough money during the illegal phase so they can pay some tiny
| fine and keep going.
| ronsor wrote:
| Illegal? If the record companies were so obviously going to
| win, they could've obtained a preliminary injunction to stop
| Suno's business. They didn't, so the service continues.
| pier25 wrote:
| AFAIK the lawsuit is still ongoing.
|
| Suno admitted to train their models with copyrighted music and
| are now defending the position that music copyrights and
| royalties are bad for the future of music.
| randyrand wrote:
| I think it's more straightforward to argue it's
| transformative fair use.
| 93po wrote:
| fair use requires it be non-profit which doesnt work for
| suno
| brookst wrote:
| I don't think that's true. Parodies are protected as
| transformative fair use and plenty of them are for-
| profit.
| rwmj wrote:
| I hope no songwriters have listened to Sony music or they could
| be in trouble.
| brookst wrote:
| Do most companies just stop releasing product while in legal
| disputes? I don't think I've ever heard of that.
| ronsor wrote:
| They don't unless a judge orders them. It would be
| nonsensical to do so as lawsuits typically take years.
| andrewclunn wrote:
| I've been doing music composition and songwriting as a hobby for
| a decade. 4.0 is where Suno added enough features where
| workshopping things conceptually there first made it worth it,
| even for someone who can and often will, break apart stems into
| composite instruments and then manually adjust as needed. People
| always worry about what this means at the low effort "spray and
| pray" approach to music, but ultimately, it also allows for
| faster and cheaper iteration and development for all involved. Is
| the finished product ultimately "better" though? You be the
| judge.
|
| For comparison, here's a song where I forced myself to do
| everything within Suno (took less than a week):
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6mJcXxoppc
|
| And here's one where I did the manual composition, worked with
| session artists, and it took a couple months and cost me several
| hundred dollars:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JcEnU-x3s
| arnaudsm wrote:
| The biggest impact Generative Music had on my life was for
| wedding skits. Families that wanted a funny song about the bride
| filled with anecdotes didn't need talent anymore.
|
| The first time I heard it, it was incredible. The 2nd wedding
| that did it, it started to feel boring. The 3rd time, everyone
| hated it.
|
| Similar to image-generation, we're getting tired really fast of
| cookie-cutter art. I don't know how to feel about it.
| jbm wrote:
| I enjoy playing with Suno as a toy to flesh out bits and pieces
| of creative ideas I have that I cannot complete at my current
| stage in life.
|
| Weird, stupid things. Writing theme songs for TV shows that
| don't exist, finding ways to translate song types from culture
| A to culture B, BGM for a video game you want to make, a sales
| song for Shikoku 1889 to sell Iyo railway shares, etc...
|
| Some of us have zero cultural influence and services like Suno
| mean we aren't listening to the original brainrot (popular
| music). Sure, you might create garbage but it's your garbage
| and you aren't stuck waiting for someone to throw you a bone.
|
| I love Suno, it's a rare subscription that is fun.
| gs17 wrote:
| I agree, you can make stupid ideas happen without having to
| make a huge investment in something you want to hear as a
| joke. There was a metal song I thought had lyrics that would
| also work as pop-country and I did quick cover of it on Suno
| to see if I was right.
|
| I'm pretty sure that I actually could, if I really wanted to,
| create this cover legitimately and even put it on Spotify
| with royalties going to the original artists (it seems they
| have a blanket mechanical license for a lot of works). But it
| was a "gag" song that probably has a market of just me, so
| hiring a team of people would be a lot of time and money for
| 3 minutes of a giggle. I also would have to worry about
| things like if it's changed too much to be a cover and
| getting sued for putting in extra effort.
| mjr00 wrote:
| Distribution services like Distrokid, CDBaby, Tunecore etc
| will handle the mechanical license for covers. As long as
| you don't change the lyrics or melody, a cover will remain
| a cover, even if you change a genre from metal to country.
| The "derivative work" carveout is to protect people from
| changing the lyrics to e.g. something offensive and the
| original rights holder being unable to do anything about
| it.
|
| That being said, your idea isn't original; there's already
| a flood of automated AI-generated cover songs being pushed
| onto Spotify, and they + distributors are (allegedly)
| starting to actively combat this.
| gs17 wrote:
| My "idea" was to get human artists to record it, which
| is, yes, very unoriginal. I guess that was a bit
| ambiguous.
| cactusplant7374 wrote:
| I'm sure if you lied and told everyone that you hired someone
| to create the tune they would like it again.
| recursive wrote:
| I'm not.
| moralestapia wrote:
| 3 weddings in a couple months, lucky you!
| arnaudsm wrote:
| thanks, early 30s are exhausting haha
| bongodongobob wrote:
| It's probably just the lyrics, not the musical content. Popular
| music is mostly the same. It's clever lyrics and good meter
| that's more important imo. You can just dump something in from
| GPT or use Suno for it, but unless you spend some actual time
| on lyric composition, it will absolutely be campy as hell.
| mjr00 wrote:
| Suno songs also sound really poor from a technical
| perspective. The high end of the frequency spectrum is always
| very washy, reminiscent of the days of 128kbps mp3s. It
| sounds ok in isolation but it's very noticeable when it's
| thrown into a playlist of professionally mixed/mastered
| music.
| XenophileJKO wrote:
| I'm not a pro, but this seems different on the 4.5 model.
| It seems much crisper.
| mjr00 wrote:
| Yeah 4.5 definitely improves a lot, but I can still hear
| washiness in the high end. Probably not noticeable to
| most in isolation or poor audio devices like low-end
| phone speakers, but would be very noticeable on a good
| soundsystem in a playlist with professional songs.
| xienze wrote:
| > The high end of the frequency spectrum is always very
| washy, reminiscent of the days of 128kbps mp3s.
|
| I have a feeling that's by design. Firstly for computation
| purposes, secondly to avoid someone making a studio-quality
| deepfake song.
| ignu wrote:
| AI art is like dreams. I'm amused by my own but never want to
| hear about anyone else's.
| asar wrote:
| I love this analogy.
| hndamien wrote:
| Your real poetry on the other hand, pretty good!
| esafak wrote:
| Feel great: humans value creativity, and novelty.
| sgt wrote:
| If you actually know some of the languages and you realize they
| are just singing jibberish (much worse than actual real songs),
| it's impossible to listen to. The instrumental ones can be great.
| jbm wrote:
| I speak Japanese -- I'm pretty sure it isn't gibberish when I
| put in custom lyrics. (It does sometime read Kanji wrong but
| not when you put in the pronunciation)
|
| I can't say anything about autogenerated lyrics.
| moralestapia wrote:
| Nope, on the Spanish stations I listened to, it's great.
|
| Which one are you referring to?
| bradleykingz wrote:
| I love listening to African folk music. I don't understand the
| lyrics but really enjoy the music.
|
| I've found some okay but listening to "meaningless" music
| doesn't sit right with me
| coumbaya wrote:
| The French ones I listened to where legit
| hiccuphippo wrote:
| The Beatles had a song with a gibberish mix of Spanish,
| Portuguese and Italian and I very much enjoy it.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bNMxWGHlTI
|
| Cuando para mucho mi amore de felice corazon...
| bobajeff wrote:
| I had not known that this was AI until reading the comments here.
| I was really enjoying the 'anti-folk big band' station. Now I'm
| sure that's just a nonsense genre but that nonsense was more
| enjoyable than the stuff I've found on Spotify. I'm not sure what
| that says about me or the state of music but I did not expect it
| to be this capable yet.
| moralestapia wrote:
| Hmm, got interested on listening to that one station due to
| your comment, but couldn't find it anywhere.
| scotty79 wrote:
| big band alt-country
|
| it's first in one of the rows, on the left
| Recursing wrote:
| You can ctrl+F and scroll until it pops up
|
| edm anti-folk is also great:
| https://suno.com/song/47f0585c-ca41-4002-9d7f-fe71f85e0c62
| drabbiticus wrote:
| The music that Suno generates as anti-folk is pretty aesthetic,
| but when you read into what anti-folk is meant to be as a
| genre, I can't help but feel that an AI algorithm spitting out
| music and lyrics is pretty far from anti-commercial ethos
| espoused by the antifolk movement.
| S0y wrote:
| Honestly it baffles me at this point that Suno keeps trying to
| generate lyrics when everything else it generates sounds so good.
|
| All of these example get ruined by the most simple and boring
| lyrics imaginable. Poetry is an art and clearly the model doesn't
| yet grasp all of its nuances like it does for the rest of the
| "composition".
|
| At this point the only thing that gives this away as AI generated
| are the vocals.
| S0y wrote:
| >Take the plunge in the strength of the breakbeat,
|
| >Among the stars, where the dreams and freedom meet.
|
| >Finding the ecstasy of life's uncharted quest,
|
| >In every pulse of the music, feel the zest.
|
| Like... what?
| otabdeveloper4 wrote:
| > At this point the only thing that gives this away as AI
| generated are the vocals.
|
| Only because the bar for music is so low nowadays. Thankfully
| poetry hasn't been commodified yet liked music has.
| johnfn wrote:
| Yeah, I find it funny that they have this super strong music
| generation model, but then they use what could only be GPT 3.5
| for lyrics.
| RugnirViking wrote:
| I think it's because, like a first year writing student
| trying poetry, it tries a little too hard to make the lyrics
| coherent and storytelling in a script read from a page. A lot
| of real song lyrics have a whole lot of repetition, non
| sequiturs, and break grammar rules to fit the meter better
| johnfn wrote:
| I mean, perhaps I should have made this more clear, but
| later models of GPT are leaps and bounds better than
| whatever suno is currently using.
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Use GPT for the lyrics then, you don't have to use Suno for
| that.
| natdempk wrote:
| Have you tried out the Remi lyrics model in custom mode? It's a
| lot more unhinged and creative in both very good and very...
| interesting ways. I'd check it out if you're interested in
| lyrics generation.
| jppope wrote:
| Love the site, and impressed by what they generated there. With
| that said... I'm starting to feel like music might be the last
| thing to be affected by Generative AI.
|
| I IV V with different accents over the music and different drum
| sounds is fine, but thats not really music. It's pretty bad when
| you can pick out the chords progression in 5 sec. Cue the
| infamous 4-chord song skit by Axis of Awesome.
| netdevphoenix wrote:
| > I IV V with different accents over the music and different
| drum sounds is fine, but thats not really music
|
| Music is more about the human that made it and their relation
| to you than the sound properties themselves. Same as other art.
| The more indirect the music process and the further you are
| from the living experience of the human creator, the less it
| resembles art. I feel art is more of an spectrum rather than a
| binary switch and the metric is how much direct human
| involvement did the audio experience have in terms that you can
| relate to.
|
| Remove the human completely and you just have sound. It is
| likely that something like bepop, gabber or industrial
| synthwave would have been considered "sounds" rather than art
| by medieval folks or Mesopotamian people if they heard the
| sounds without knowing whether the source was human or not.
| Same with us if we were to heard some music from the year 3200
| or 4500, we would likely not consider it music.
| jppope wrote:
| thats exactly what I'm feeling. GenAi for images or text is
| useful, it feels like the resolved values can be added to
| things or accomplish a purpose. The GenAI music feels like
| sound (as you put it) - like great its there, but thats not
| music.
| postexitus wrote:
| I actually am of the exact opposite opinion. With image / text
| / video, I am much more able to differentiate between AI vs
| human.
|
| However in music - there is so much badly done human music as
| well, for me it's nearly impossible to understand the
| difference between a badly done human music and a high fidelity
| AI music (the chord progression, happens as often in human
| music). Moreover, I have put Suno AI on playlist mode before
| and it's actually been enjoyable, and I am a big AI sceptic!
| Sometimes even more so than Spotify's own (although they've
| been accused of putting AI music on playlists as well - but I
| am fairly sure the weak stuff that put me off was by humans -
| did I say I cannot differentiate?).
|
| Especially some music genres - like Japanese Vocaloid ; Power
| Metal, some country, where certain genre specific things
| overwhelm the piece, AI does a very good job in mimicking those
| from the best of the best and put meagre efforts to shame.
|
| Here is one AI song I generated in an earlier version of Suno -
| let me know if anything stands out as AI:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5JcEnU-x3s
|
| and another I recorded in my studio with an artist:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6mJcXxoppc
| computerdork wrote:
| Agreed, am a musician too, and especially for popular music,
| AI music is as complex and often indistinguishable from music
| created by humans.
|
| Kind of sad, especially for composers (which I am trying to
| be). Ah well, can only keep moving forward.
| brookst wrote:
| I'm only an occasional hobbyist, but I am super excited for
| how AI can empower me to write ideas I want, but which are
| beyond my ability and / or not possible using normal tools.
| I really think we'll see a revolution in music theory once
| it's easy to incorporate microtonal, multi-tempo, and other
| crazy stuff.
|
| Also as we can blur the line between instrument and audio;
| why can't my piano morph into an organ over the course of a
| piece? (I'm familiar with the Korg Morpheus and similar; I
| mean in a much more real sense).
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Suno is way more than that. Listen to the jazz tags or
| something, you're being way over dismissive here.
| NexRebular wrote:
| But why would I ever want to listen something generated by
| someone else when I can just generate infinite amount of the
| same stuff myself?
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Because it sounds good, you can do both.
| NexRebular wrote:
| But what's the point of spending time and thought for
| music prompted by others? What I can generate sounds
| exactly as good and has the exact same value...
| brookst wrote:
| Can't you say the same thing about why listen to human
| jazz musicians?
| NexRebular wrote:
| I am not a jazz musician. I can't generate their music,
| all the nuances, the improvisation or the feeling... in
| other words the human factor of their craft 1 to 1 with a
| press of a button.
| iandanforth wrote:
| I recommend clicking around on genres for languages you don't
| speak. The songs sound great as long as you don't know what they
| are saying. Lyrics are still a very weak point for AI music,
| still, infinite enjoyment as long as you're ignorant of the
| flaws!
| TheAceOfHearts wrote:
| One of Suno's biggest weakness is their lyrics generation, and
| that you can't generate lyrics without also generating a song. I
| think it's better to use a different LLM to generate and iterate
| on lyrics, which you can then pass to Suno in order to generate a
| final song.
|
| If anyone here has a subscription and they can spare the tokens,
| I think it would be fun if someone shared a song about Hacker
| News.
|
| I'm hoping that in the future tools like Suno will allow you to
| produce / generate songs as projects which you can tweak in
| greater detail; basically a way of making music by "vibe coding".
| With 4.0 the annotation capabilities were still a bit limited,
| and the singer could end up mispronouncing things without any way
| to fix or specify the correct pronunciation. This blog post
| mentions that with 4.5 they enhanced prompt interpretations, but
| it doesn't actually go into any technical details nor does it
| provide clear examples to get a real sense of the changes.
| idoxer wrote:
| Another thing I did with LLM which I found very useful, is to
| give the LLM an existing song lyrics and ask him to do a
| similar one with different subject I give him
| whoomp12342 wrote:
| you can do this... just toggle to "custom" mode on song
| generation
| Jordan-117 wrote:
| Their biggest weakness is that every voice has a persistent
| synthy quality, like it's a vocaloid it's being sung into one
| of those tinny microphone toys for kids. I find Udio has much
| more natural-sounding vocals.
| hndamien wrote:
| This song was produced a long time ago from a verbatim hacker
| news comment, and got released on Spotify and Apple and became
| a favorite at home.
|
| Your comment inspired me to upgrade it to 4.5 because it did
| have that AI tinny quality. https://suno.com/s/tbZlkBL7XeLVuuN0
|
| It sounds better but has lost some magic.
|
| Here is the original comment -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39997706
|
| In that spirit, from the same "artist" here is your comment -
| https://suno.com/s/AumsIqrIovVhT0c9
|
| And
|
| https://suno.com/s/YGlpHptX6yXJVpHq
|
| Not sure which I like more.
| natdempk wrote:
| Check out custom mode -- we've added a lyrics writing
| flow/editor to help create and edit lyrics, as well as Remi, a
| more unhinged lyrics model.
|
| We can do better on user instruction for sure, duly noted. In
| my experience a lot of different stuff works (emotions, some
| musical direction sometimes, describing parts/layers of the
| track you want to exist, music-production-ish terminology,
| genres, stuff like intro/outro/chorus), but I think of it more
| as steering the space of the generated output rather than
| working 100% of the time. This can go in the style tags or in
| [brackets] in the lyrics. Definitely makes a difference in the
| outputs to be more descriptive with 4.5.
| particle_theory wrote:
| I got suno to render a song that I used to sing to my daughter
| when she was a baby. After some amount of fiddling, it produced
| something quite nice and for this I am eternally grateful to AI.
| n8m8 wrote:
| I still hear hissing on many of the examples, has that improved?
| tmaly wrote:
| I honestly would like to see an open source music model that can
| generate the stems
| fuzzythinker wrote:
| Love the UI! Beautiful and great for exploration.
| nusaru wrote:
| Immediately got a banger: "Dimensions of being"
| https://suno.com/song/dd3dbde0-4df6-4aec-a9be-bd2f64c281c8
| ignoramous wrote:
| Got this Urdu song
| https://suno.com/song/4c5837c9-26ae-430e-839d-3cdf8d8cbcb0
| (https://archive.vn/pLMHD) and it is hauntingly meaningless,
| which makes it ... unique? Lyrics doesn't seem to be Suno's
| strong suit (and Urdu particularly has a rich poetry
| tradition), but it won't remain as ridiculous for long.
| Exciting times!
| comex wrote:
| Hmm. Still has the biggest issue I've observed with AI songs in
| the past: the lyrics don't have a consistent or pleasing
| rhythm. It seems like the lyrics are generated with little
| regard to rhythm, then the melody is generated and tries to fit
| the lyrics without being able to change them. The result is a
| song where verses constantly have too many syllables (resulting
| in them spilling into the next meter when adjacent verses
| don't), or too few syllables (resulting in awkward rests), or
| syllables with the wrong stresses. Occasionally the singing
| tries to compensate by just skipping syllables. In the second
| verse, the word "whispering" is replaced by an indistinct two-
| syllable word that sounds like "forming". In the chorus, the
| phrase "the dimensions" merges the first two syllables to sound
| like "the mentions".
|
| Someday, I'm sure, Suno will find a way to fix this issue. But
| today isn't that day.
| cynicalpeace wrote:
| I have a hypothesis that AI music and other arts will not take
| off.
|
| My reasoning is that the fact that it was made by another human
| is _really_ important.
|
| Not only because you might think a piece of music is lame because
| it was made by AI vs a human.
|
| But also because all the things that bring you back to a piece of
| art is wrapped up in the person that made it.
|
| People who are immense fans of the Beatles, Taylor Swift or Kanye
| West illustrate this point.
|
| You keep coming back because you liked this person's music
| before, and so you can't wait to preorder their music in the
| future.
|
| Same goes for books, paintings and really all other art I can
| think of.
|
| An artist develops a following that snowballs into their music
| being broadly consumed.
|
| There are "AI music artists" that have been around for a decade.
| Miquela is the one I know about. But in that timespan, hundreds
| of human artists have developed followings and cultural sway that
| far outweigh what Miquela has done.
|
| It seems more and more that AI is simply another tool for humans
| to use. Rather than a replacement altogether of humans.
| mrandish wrote:
| Personally, I have little interest in typing a text prompt and
| getting a complete song as an output. However, I will gladly pay
| serious money for a tool that interactively collaborates with me
| in a granular, iterative process of generating, adjusting and
| mixing individual instruments and sections toward a finished
| multi-track song project.
|
| Allow users to creatively engage by providing suggested starting
| places in the form of BPM, key and chord progressions or as brief
| audio and/or MIDI sketches. For example, let me give the AI a
| simple sketch of a couple bars of melody as MIDI notes, then have
| it give me back several variations of matching rhythm section and
| harmonies. Then take my textual feedback on adjustments I'd like
| but let me be specific when necessary, down to per-section or
| individual instrument. Ideally, the interface should look like a
| simplified multi-track DAW, making it easy for users to lock or
| unlock individual tracks so the AI knows what to keep and what to
| change as we creatively iterate. Once finished, provide output as
| both full mix and separate audio stems with optional MIDI for
| tracks with traditional instruments.
|
| Targeting this use case accomplishes two crucial things. First,
| it lowers the bar of quality the AI has to match to be useful and
| compelling. Let's face it, generating lyrics, melodies,
| instrumental performances and production techniques more
| compelling than a top notch team of humans is _hard_ for an AI.
| Doing it every time and only in the form of a complete, fully
| produced song is currently nearly impossible. The second thing it
| does is increase the tangible value the AI can contribute right
| now. Today it can be the rhythm section I lack, tomorrow it can
| fill in for the session guitarist I need, next week it can help
| me come up with new chord progression ideas. It would be useful
| every time I want to create music, whether I need backing vocals,
| a tight bass riff, scary viola tremelos or just some musical
| inspiration. And nothing it did would have to be _perfect_ to be
| insanely useful - because I can tweak individual audio stems and
| MIDI tracks _far_ faster than trying to explain a certain swing
| shuffle feel in text prompts.
|
| Seriously, for a tool anything like what I've described, I'd be
| all-in for _at least_ $30 /mo if it's only half-assed. Once it's
| 3/4-assed put me down for $50/mo - and I'm not even a pro or
| semi-pro musician or producer, just a musical hobbyist who screws
| around making stuff no one else ever hears. Sure, actual music
| creators are a smaller market than music listeners but we're
| loyal, not as price sensitive and our needs for perfection in
| collaborators are far lower too. Plus, all those granular
| interactions as we iterate with your AI step-by-step towards
| "great", becomes invaluable training data - yet doesn't require
| us creators to surrender rights to our final output. For training
| data, the journey is (literally) the reward.
| mjr00 wrote:
| Honestly I don't think Suno knows who's supposed to be using
| their product. There's valid use cases for typing a text prompt
| and getting a song with zero fuss: background music in YouTube
| videos or corporate training videos, intro music for events
| (Starcraft fans know the ASL has been abusing Suno songs for a
| few seasons now), an AI-generated playlist running in the
| background in a cafe, etc. But those use cases don't seem worth
| too much, when you consider that music was _effectively already
| free_ --you can hop onto Soundcloud and filter by Creative
| Commons and there's an unlimited number of songs you can use
| for these cases.[0] It remains to be seen how big the market
| for content creators who would actually _pay_ for AI-generated
| songs rather than just pull CC tracks from Soundcloud is.
|
| So then there's the casual end-user who's making music for
| themselves to listen to. IMO this is largely a novelty that
| hasn't worked out. I haven't heard many people regularly listen
| to Suno because, again, music is already incredibly cheap.
| Spotify is ~$15/month and it gives you access to the Beatles
| and Rolling Stones. The novelty of AI-generated "Korean goa
| psytrance 2-step" is fun for a bit, but how much will people
| pay for it, how many, and for how long?
|
| I do think there's a _lot_ of potential targeting musicians who
| incorporate AI-generated elements in their songs. (Disclaimer:
| I am a musician who has been using vocal synths for many years,
| and have started incorporating AI-generated samples into my
| workflows.) However as you point out, the functionality needed
| for Suno to work here is _very_ different from the "write
| prompt, get fully complete song" use case.
|
| It'll be interesting to see where it goes from here. In
| general, AI-based tooling does appear to be pivoting more
| towards "tools for creators" rather than "magic button that
| produces content", so I'm hopeful.
|
| [0] One notable one is the artist "009 Sound System", who had a
| bunch of CC-licensed tracks that became popular due to
| YouTube's music swapping feature; since the list was sorted
| alphabetically, their tracks ended up getting used in a ton of
| videos and gaining popularity.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Perls#YouTube
| mrandish wrote:
| > the functionality needed for Suno to work here is very
| different from the "write prompt, get fully complete song"
| use case.
|
| Yeah, AI music gen is super fun to play with for a half-hour
| or so - and it's great when I need a novelty song made for a
| friend's wedding or special birthday - like, once a year
| maybe. But neither of those seems like a use case that leads
| to sustainable, high-value ARR. I'm starting to wonder if
| maybe most AI music generation companies ended up here
| because AI researchers saw a huge pile of awesome produced
| content that was already partially tagged and it looked like
| too perfect of a nail not to swing their LLM hammer at. And,
| until recently, VCs were throwing money at anything "AI"
| without needing to show product/market fit.
|
| I'm not sure they fully thought through the use case of
| typical music listeners or considered the entrenched
| competition offering >95% of all music humans have ever
| recorded - for around ~$10/mo. As you said, another potential
| customer is media producers who need background tracks for
| social media videos but between the stock music industry
| offering millions of great tracks for pennies each and the
| "Fivver"-type producers who'll make a surprisingly good
| custom track in a day that you can own for $25 - I'm not
| seeing much ARR for AI music generators there either.
|
| Currently the launch hypothesis of AI music generation puts
| them in direct competition against mature, high-quality
| alternatives that are already entrenched and cheap. And those
| use cases are currently being served by literally the best-
| of-the-best content humanity has ever created. Targeting
| replacing that as their first target seems as dumb as a
| SpaceX setting "Landing on Mars" as the goal of their first
| launch. There's no way to incrementally iterate toward that
| value proposition. Sure, targeting more modest incremental
| goals may be less exciting, but it also doesn't require
| perfection. Fortunately, music producers have needs that are
| more tractable but still valuable to solve - and not
| currently well served by cheap, plentiful, high-quality
| alternatives. And music producers are generally easier to
| reach, satisfy and retain long-term than 'music listeners' or
| 'music licensers'.
| cardanome wrote:
| I mean there is a Cursor integration for Ableton Live:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXSImhfS15k
|
| Plus Ableton Live itself has a lot of generative tools these
| days:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RNXVfo-oLc
|
| But I honestly don't see the point. The journey is the whole
| point when making music or any art really. AI doesn't solve a
| problem here. There never has been one in the first place.
| There is more music out there than you could ever listen to.
| Automating something humans deeply enjoy is misguided.
| mjr00 wrote:
| Generative tools and AI are great for finding inspiration.
| Same as using presets (which many do still think is
| "cheating" despite everyone doing it). Ultimately all
| listeners care about is the end result, not how it was made.
| cardanome wrote:
| There wouldn't be a point in seeing artists play live if
| people only cared about the end result.
|
| Listening to the studio mix on my headphones at home will
| always be better sound than being in a crowded concert.
|
| I mean you are right to a certain degree, if it works, it
| works and if generative tools inspire you to make better
| music that is great. I am not so sure about that though.
|
| I am forced to vibe code at work and it has not make me
| more creative. Is has made me want to quit my job.
| mjr00 wrote:
| Artists playing live _is_ the end result though. If
| anything, the fact that people go to see Katy Perry in
| concert and not Max Martin, or how Tiesto is still a
| massive festival draw despite everyone knowing he 's used
| ghost producers for 2 decades, are great examples of how
| little people care about the process of music being made
| versus the end result.
|
| I'm not saying you _need_ to use generative tools, but if
| it helps you make music you should do it. Ultimately what
| you 're sharing with the world is your _taste_ , not your
| technical abilities. To slightly expand on a famous quote
| in the music world -
|
| > _I thought using AI was cheating, so I used loops. I
| then thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my
| own using samples. I then thought using samples was
| cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that
| programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums
| for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating,
| so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade
| skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I
| then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own
| goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but
| I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any
| music lately, what with the goat farming and all._
| brookst wrote:
| There's not one right way you art. . . Plenty of artists like
| Warhol and Dali used mass production and automation.
|
| If you enjoy writing music your way, great. But I strongly
| disagree that it's a mistake to enable people to approach it
| differently.
| cardanome wrote:
| I actually used to have the exact same position when stable
| diffusion came out.
|
| All my artists friends where criticizing it and I was
| thinking it was some form of Neo-Ludditism that they were
| following. Why not embrace progress? No one is stopping
| them to not use it but if it helps lower the barrier of
| entry isn't that great? Surely generative AI could be used
| to enhance of the workflow of an artist?
|
| Oh, how I have been wrong. In reality it has only been used
| to replace artists. To devalue their work. It has not place
| in a artists pipeline.
|
| https://aftermath.site/ai-video-game-development-art-vibe-
| co...
|
| I think the use of generative AI or at least of generalist
| LLM's is something fundamentally different than artists
| embracing new media and new processes. Like digital drawing
| is still roughly the same process as drawing on paper. The
| process is largely the same and most skills carry over. You
| are still in control. Using a prompt to create images is
| something that is not drawing.
|
| I also recommend:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3DaREo1sQ
| kadushka wrote:
| Try aiva.ai
| mrandish wrote:
| Thanks for the suggestion. It looks closer to what I want
| than anything I've seen so far. Probably still not granular
| enough but much closer and headed in the right direction.
| 93po wrote:
| i'm not really into music, at all, but would easily pay
| $50/month to be able to have this functionality, too. even just
| the tools being what they are i've spent over a dozen hours
| playing around with it because it's so much fun. add the
| ability to separate parts of the tracks and select portions
| specifically to change and i'd use this constantly, all the
| time
| codergautam wrote:
| Blog post https://suno.com/blog/introducing-v4-5
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| The real potential of tools like Suno isn't in cranking out
| radio-ready hits. It's in creating music that _doesn 't_ have
| commercial incentives to exist. Case in point: Functional Music.
|
| I started using it to generate songs that reinforce emotional
| regulation strategies -things like grounding, breathwork, staying
| present. Not instructional tracks, which would be unbearable, but
| actual songs with lyrics that reflect actual practice and skills.
|
| It started as a way to help me decompress after therapy. I'd
| listen to a mini-album I made during the drive home. Eventually,
| I'd catch myself recalling a lyric in stressful moments
| elsewhere. That was the moment things clicked. The songs weren't
| just a way for me to calm down on the way home, they were
| teaching me real emotional skills I could use in all parts of my
| life. I wasn't consciously practicing mindfulness anymore; it was
| showing up on its own. Since then I've been iterating, writing
| lyrics that reflect emotional-cognitive skills, generating songs
| with them, and listening while I'm in the car. It's honestly
| changed my life in a subtle but deep way.
|
| We already have work songs, lullabies, marching music, and
| religious chants - all music that serves a purpose besides
| existing to be listened to. Music that exists to teach us ways of
| interacting is a largely untapped idea.
|
| This is the kind of functional application is what generative
| music is perfect for. Song can be so much more than listening to
| terminally romantic lyricists trying to speak to the lowest
| common denominator. They can teach us to be better versions of
| ourselves.
| zvitiate wrote:
| Yup. My favorite genre by FAR is baroque. High quality
| recordings are not as wide as you'd expect, and no one's really
| pumping out new baroque. V4.5 is noticeably better, even if the
| model shows the real "plagiaristic" aspect.
|
| Still, I'm excited about the product. The composer could
| probably use some chain of thought if it doesn't already, and
| plan larger sequences and how they relate to each other. Suno
| is also probably the most ripe for a functional neurosymbolic
| model. CPE wrote an algorithm on counterpoint hundreds of years
| ago!
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/classicalmusic/comments/4qul1b/crea...
| (Note the original site has been taken over, but you can access
| the original via way back. Unfortunately I couldn't find a save
| where the generation demo works...but I swear it did! I used it
| at the time!)
| linotype wrote:
| Would you mind making these available to others?
| kelseyfrog wrote:
| Sure! I "re-mastered" my mini-album with v4.5 since that's
| more in the spirit of the discussion.
|
| https://suno.com/playlist/e6c3f3d1-a746-4106-bea1-e36073d227.
| ..
|
| Side note: It feels a little vulnerable to be sharing these.
| They genuinely helped me through difficult times and I wasn't
| really expecting anyone else to ever listen to them.
| oidar wrote:
| That's incredibly generous of you. Thanks for sharing.
| hndamien wrote:
| This is a Suno generated Alan Watts inspired meditation.
| Absolutely agree!
|
| https://music.apple.com/au/album/breath-of-the-cosmos/175227...
|
| https://open.spotify.com/track/0mJoJ0XiQZ8HglUdhWhg2F?si=tID...
|
| https://suno.com/s/LHRmE867FslALzz6
| tern wrote:
| The fact that LLMs compute an average of human culture is more
| apparent in music AIs than any other medium. You cannot get these
| things to do anything original, same as with images, designs and
| creative writing--and it's not an "intelligence" problem.
|
| I'm not sure if this is solvable, but I think it should be a
| bigger research topic. If anyone knows of any papers on this, I
| haven't found one yet (not sure what to search for).
| bongodongobob wrote:
| Any musician will tell you most music isn't original. You just
| don't have the ear for it. You telling me Green Day's songs are
| all unique and original? Even jazz uses 6-2-5-1's over and
| over. Unless you only listen to avante garde prog rock or
| something, all of music is derivative. And that's ok. Every
| song being a unique snowflake isn't important. If you like it
| or it makes you feel something, that's all that matters.
| Velorivox wrote:
| All books are derivative too, the English ones use the same
| 26 characters over and over.
| thuuuomas wrote:
| > If you like it or it makes you feel something, that's all
| that matters.
|
| You're right!
|
| > Even jazz uses 6-2-5-1's over and over.
|
| You're not even wrong! I wonder if jazz does anything else
| besides that?
| 93po wrote:
| regular player on main site is entirely broken in firefox :(
| jacooper wrote:
| This is going to be a life changer for youtubers and creatives
| who need background songs for their videos, you can now create
| tailored songs for whatever you need.
|
| Its great, however it sucked in other languages, sounding like a
| foreigner trying to speak like a local.
| tylershuster wrote:
| I'm conflicted about this. I want to dislike it, but frankly I
| don't appreciate the actual musicianship in music the majority of
| the time. If I'm listening to something that has broad and long-
| lasting culture impact like Bach, or Britney Spears, it really
| matters more about how it's been received than the actual quality
| of the music.
|
| Or, if I'm listening to music just for the vibe, I really don't
| care how it's created, as long as it doesn't offend me
| auditorially. I'm really not listening actively. So I suppose
| that's a bit of an indictment of myself, but I don't think it's a
| serious character flaw in myself. I should probably just try to
| pay more attention to the people around me at all times.
|
| I have a lot of fun putting my own poetry in here and mashing it
| up with the styles that I enjoy listening to, or that I think
| would work well with the poem. Again, I don't want to like it,
| but I do.
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